I rather like the bit about automagically parsing PG texts. I could
probably add that quite easily to Plucker.
Project Gutenberg's texts are not all the same. I ran into this with
my pgperl script (perl script to turn PG texts into Plucker docs, rewrapped
and set to justify). There
I just stumbled upon this while working on my Mozilla plugin:
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/pdf2html/
Interesting idea, though we'd have to deal with scaling and
alt-maxwidth/alt-maxheight for panning around the images, but maybe its
another approach
The limitation with this is that the user has to plan for this and setup
the scripts for each pdb that may have a word doc.
Not at all, you can make a script that just takes a path to a Word
doc as an argument and converts.
Also, last I knew, the perl scripts didn't work under
As for public XML feeds with real content, these are all but nonexistent.
Here's a bunch I've found a long time ago, collected and converted
into something that may or may not work on a PDA. I've been tinkering with
this on and off for quite some time.
Most content providers who use XML transform it on the server because most
browsers in use today do not support XSLT well or at all.
They transform it on the server, because that's EXACTLY how it was
meant to be delivered.
XML is nothing more than an empty bucket, and has
Last time I looked, XHTML, ala wired.com, is a full class XML citizen.
XHTML is a reformulation of HTML4 as an XML 1.0 application.
Again I can check http://wired.com/news/technology/ as being both a
well-formed and valid XML document.
You mean XHTML. That URL is providing
Having said that, perhaps a better idea would be to have the parser
automatically call tidy, if it's available, so that we could leverage
other people's work.
I would prefer that to be a selective option, not mandatory.
That being said, anything that makes Plucker better, I'm
I'm trying to build the plucker CVS, but... If I try to make the entire
thing, meaning something like this: ./configure --prefix=/usr
--disable-palmosbuild --disable-desktopbuild --with-version=1.3
--disable-gtkviewer, I get this:
Oh, also, building in this fashion, with the command
Then what about my.plkr.org? It says you can pick up ready-made PDBs from
the site. That's redistribution, too. Or am I understanding this wrong?
(It isn't live yet, I know.)
They are actually plucked live, based on the user's schedule, but
not stored on the server. I've got a good
Well, apparently this also affects people who upgrade to 4.1.2 .. great :P
Not a problem, since Palmsource hasn't yet released a 4.1.2 that we
can upgrade to, only a POSE rom image, but that doesn't do anyone any good,
since they butchered the rom so it can't be flashed to a real
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//ENhttp://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd
It seems like the parser is unable to parse this line. When this line is
remove (by hand) plucker agrees to import the page into my palm.
Isn't this supposed to be on three separate
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Did you ever have any luck with this?
This is the first I've ever seen this. When did you send the
original message? I don't remember seeing this perl script on the list
before. Did you send it to one of the lists?
I use: automake 1.6.2 and autoconf 2.5.3... Are there any known bugs about
this? Or this has been resolved in CVS; but I don't know how to get to
there sigh Can anyone points me to there?
Does it work with automake 1.5 and autoconf 2.5.2 on your system?
I suspect 1.6.2 is
Is it possible to create a nightly build of the Viewer PRC with table
support, or is there such a thing already? I don't have Palm development
environment set up but I definitely want to test it for possible support
in JPluck.
I could certainly do this, though, there's no guarantee
When I downloaded Plucker Desktop a couple of days ago, it was version
#1.2.0.2.
Thank you, I've added it to the download page.
d.
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But, this shouldn't be a problem much longer since I should be aquiring a
Tungsten (and access to this part of the API) to specifically bring
plucker code up to par. Hopefully soon enough the problem you describe
will be fixed.
Er, ah, uhm... if Palm doesn't hand it out, and you gain
Well, not exactly. Because the viewer would have to be coded with the
configure script to look for D-Pad specific SDK seperate of the PalmOS
SDK, the person doing the compiling would have to already have access
to this data.
*Slaps forehead* Oh yeah, that's right, my bad.
d.
I think it would be helpful if you could add the software version #'s
on the Downloads page.
Great idea! ..except I have no idea how to find out what they are
myself (I don't run Windows, nor do I run Macintosh), so I'll have to
prod the users who have those platforms to give me that
After much groveling, and whining, and begging... I have CVS access thru
the firewall!!!
Is it port 2401? Or did you use some other app to tunnel it?
Can you send me a password?
Done, see private email.
d.
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David: Can I send to some screen shots for those not brave enough to try
it to look at?? Maybe for a back page on plkr.org 'til we have if more
final and in CVS??
Fire them away, private email please, and I'll put them up.
d.
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Looks like it isn't. I just got this with the Python included with
Plucker for Windows:
There DEFINATELY is a bug related to using Python 2.2 on Linux and
Windows systems that causes failures with the current Python distiller in
Plucker, and I think that's what Bill is referring to,
Can someone fix this so that autoconf/autoheader gets called in the viewer
subdirectory?
Run autoreconf
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Just an FYI.. I was at CompUSA today doing a pretty in-depth test of
the Tungsten-T and the Sony NX70U/V OS5 handhelds, and I noticed something
very curious.. the are not quite running the same OS. They are both branded
as OS5 devices, but the Sony device was missing some libraries Palm
Getting this now on a channel that was working...
What version of python?
I notice that there's been a lot of people who are beginning to see
trouble using Plucker with Python 2.2. I've solved this for at least 5
people by having them use Python 2.1 and _not_ Python 2.2. What
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The following regexp strips most of the Microsoft XML crap, e.g. ![if
!supportEmptyParas] :
s/\![^]*//g;
Very nice. I've modified your regex a bit and extended it, here's
some more code to play with (based on some other ideas from
Okay, is this a proposal or merely a discussion? I ask because if the
former, what I'd like to do is have PlkrData move the exclusion from
whichever source (INI or file) it is on the source, to the INI on the
destination.
..as long as you don't break existing functionality, i.e.
If you have a structure. A-C, B-C then you might actually want back
functionality. Otherwise you have to create two copies of C (A-C1, B-C2)
wasting bandwidth and space for what is essentially the same page.
This makes no sense to me whatsoever. You don't need more than one
copy of C
It seems to me that a Bulletin Board for communication would have some
serious advantages over this mailing list:
We've talked about this before. I've been wanting to create a nice
search engine for the list(s) and FAQ and docs, and I have something very
similar working on
Yes, I know different mailing lists could be created, but the whole
Plucker system needs to work together, and you may need to jump into and
out of different conversations to do what it is that you want to do.
As long as it works directly with the mailing lists, and does not
obsolete
Yes! We want blink in Plucker now!
I enjoyed the Python comment next to the 'blink' on the list of currently
unimplemented tags in the Parser (TextParser.py, around line 855). Props
to whoever wrote that in.
Appears to be Ondrej back in Parser.py, almost to the day 11/22/99.
This way a parser can support AvantGo pods:// URLs. For instance the link
a href=pods://avantgo/back instructs Avantgo to go one page back in
its history. It would be nice if the Viewer supported this as well. There
are some AvantGo sites that use these links. (The Onion for example.)
Perhaps we could have something in the .ini file that looked more like the
icon itself? Something in the pbitm format from pilrc?
One word, ick. I much-prefer the Base64 solution (for now) because
it is easy encoded and can also be created on the fly, from a given textual
input (i.e.
Well, if support was added for the javascript version that Robert
mentioned then it wouldn't be such a big deal to support pods, too.
And let's not forget, parsing Javascript doesn't mean adding a
parser, like HTML (though, for small history.back() stuff, we could do easy
regex/pattern
(i.e. I can take an ascii-art drawing, and create a binary icon from
it).
By hand? Wow. ;)
Of course not, with perl, silly. It's a built-in.
d.
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Second, the content providers may want to keep the history back links
because they actually want this functionality(and sometimes it does come
in handy).
Browsers already provide this functionality, why should it be
duplicated at the client-side in the HTML itself? I don't see the
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I just wanted to extend a huge thank you to those kind people who
have helped to add, sort, and categorize the urls found on the OpenURLS wiki
page. Lots of new urls have appeared, older ones have been cleaved off, and
hundreds of others have
Rumor has it that the Weasel Reader application uses SysZLib.prc,
and seems to work with zlib-compressed content on OS5 devices, but Plucker
does not. Removing SysZLib.prc on the OS5 device causes Weasel to fail (as
expected) which indicates that it is using the external .prc, and not the
http://gnu-designs.com/bugs/view_bug_page.php?f_id=372
Related to the above bug, I had a thought.. what if we set a
bookmark (invisible to the user) to the location in the page that the user
is at when they try to change the font, then when they change the font and
the page
Example two HTML:
!--h2---
Normal size
!--/h2--
Example two output, correctly shown in the wxHtmlWindow:
Normal size
Just to review:
!--foo-- # valid
!-- foo --# valid
!--foo -- # valid
!-- foo--#
I agree. The problem is when I *don't* say I want to build the viewer,
and it errors out the whole configuration process, instead of simply
determining that I don't have the necessary tools, and taking the viewer
out of the list of things to be built.
Ideally, sensible defaults
Can I make a small suggestion? First some background:
I just noticed that after tinkering around with Plucker Desktop a
few times, including deleting all of my Channels when I was done, left my
~/.pluckerrc in a somewhat polluted state of affairs. Generally, I like
to keep my
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I guess this message is for David.
Ut oh =)
I was browsing the download section of the website, specifically looking
at what Windows downloads were available.
I think if I was a new user, I wouldn't know what to download. I think I
OK, but I'm sorry I don't know the standard way to make Makefile from
Makefile.in.
automake, of course. Welcome to my hell.
d.
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Being able to do the latter is really the only reason to consider CW.
Unfortunately, until CW is either available on our platform (at a
reasonable cost), or freely available on our platform (in source format), we
are limited to the tools that _are_ available to us, which means
Even if CW was available on Linux it doesn't necessarily mean I would use
it ;-)
No, but it makes it immediately easier for everyone to test it
against prc-tools concurrently for compatibility reasons. In any case,
according to Metrowerks' higher-ups and engineers, it's never going to
..if we have the sources lying around.
That's the crux exactly. Unless someone has the source, we're stuck.
As far as I know, nobody has actually received the source Dirk is using for
those tools. Anyone else happen to have the source from Dirk?
Could you add something to the Plucker
Who currently builds the Windows stuff? Robert are you saying that your
Inno Setup for Plucker Desktop does everything you outlined? Are we saying
that the Windows Plucker Desktop installer is using Dirk's last build?
I just installed Inno Setup and started tinkering around with the
The problem is msword embeds loads of pseudo directives in the form of
(something like) ![if ...]![endif] and Plucker is choking on
these. Is this an MSword problem or a Plucker problem? Either way I
suspect it will have to be fixed in Plucker 8^(.
That's not HTML, but it's
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We could add a couple of font styles to address them. Though this is
really about two things, the font and the baseline. A simple fix would be
for the distiller to enclose them in brackets and braces.
How about something like this: When
I think we should define a specific function code. From the viewer's point
of view these aren't TECHNICALLY fonts, it'll be easier for me to support
becuase I wouldn't have to provide an exception rule (to normal fonts)
whenever a sub/sup font appears.
We _could_ make a font which
That is one thing that has bugged me quite a bit. Bold fonts should be a
tag like italics. But that's for another thread :)
b, i, u, and other similar tags have already been deprecated
in HTML, in favor of their respective font-style/etc. CSS equivalents.
Should we begin supporting
Yes, it's really cool, but can we PLEASE keep attachments off the mailing
list? I'd much rather see a link to a website with the screen shot than
have attachments brought over.
17k isn't that large, and many people appreciate being able to look
at it immediately. I should whip up a
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I know this is pushing the envelope for Plucker's initial objective, but I
feel this 2 way communication could revolutionize Plucker and the Palm Web
Browsing market.
There are quite a few technical roadblocks that make adding forms
Have someone ever tried to run the viewer on the simulator or real NX70V
(or Tungsten T)? Is it a problem of plucker, or of zlib?
The Simulator only runs on Windows, so a majority of us can't run
it, at least until POSE 4.x comes out, which should be early next year, if
estimates are
What are the usual development tools for the viewer? Also - is it at all
possible to use CodeWarrior?
Check the Tools link on the Plucker homepage for the tools.
There were reports of someone porting pieces of Plucker over to
using CodeWarrior, but I'm not sure how far they
Interesting. Then the NX70 is a hybrid between the silklib, hireslib, and
OS5 hires libraries, except that OS5 takes precidense. That's good atleast
:)
..and OS5 appears to contain a built-in CompressionZlib and
CompressionPng library pair. We may want to compensate for that on
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If we're going to go that far as to use those libs, maybe we should be
looking at a native compile version. Also, would the OS5's
ARM-emulate-Dragonball allow access to those libs?
Without a device to test on (or the $499 to buy one), it
Maybe we should contact the rep from palm that wanted to make their site
plucker compatable. They might donate one?
Been there, done that, no go.. same with Handspring.
It's ok, those features will happen eventually, as with everything..
d.
Plus if there actually is a native zlib decompressor that'd be better.
Don't forget this is Palm we're talking about here... I worry that
they may not have gotten it right (as evidenced by their numerous Oops, we
didn't mean that bugs introduced across their OS and SDK in a few dozen
I seem to remember that a link was going to be put somewhere in
www.plkr.org website to the Zaurus/Ipaq with Opie reader but there is no
mention of the Zaurus reader anywhere on the website so far as I can tell.
If you could write up a quick little article, explaining what it is,
how
This solution would obviously not work for Plucker, unless we could
generate the listing dynamically, but even then, we wouldn't know which
device we were generating for, so adding in a width would probably be a
bad idea.
..and let's not forget that we have to deal with the
Here is the patch for main trunk. Please take a look. Sample viewer can be
found at
http://www.chem.nagoya-u.ac.jp/matto/90/30Palm/plucker/index.phtml.en
The link to the viewer seems to be a bad link..
http://www.chem.nagoya-u.ac.jp/matto/90/30Palm/plucker/20021031en.prc
d.
Fixed. Thx.
Great work, and seems very fast.
A few small suggestions.. increase the height of the Find dialog,
and move the selector underneath the checkbox for Case sensitive.
Also, When searching through all pages, it shows a percentage of
where the search matched.
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Depth will be shown. Percentage is impossible, because it is unknown how
many pages will be searched at last.
Right, percentage on a sub pages/all pages search isn't really
useful, because if it says 53%, but you don't know if it's 53%
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As I was testing Matto's new sub-search capabilities in the viewer,
I noticed a few things in the Bookmarks form that we could enhance to make
it much more useful. Bear with me for a moment while I try to explain them:
Feature (or
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Any chance of a option to order the bookmarks, or if not just a
Alphabetize command, to put the bookmarks in alphabetical order?
How about two orders, Natural, where it orders them by location in
the document(s) (i.e. a bookmark 'Zed' at
Forgive me but although I see categories and cute little folder icons,
clicking on them gives me directory listings of scripts. I'm running
Opera.
We've made some changes, check vault2.cgi for now...
That interface will change a bit, we're both going through the code,
but
And I'm sure I would feel like less of an idiot if I got the arguments to
diff the right way around.
Try diff -u
d.
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Please correct me if I've been guilty of any inaccuracy, or have
represented Plucker unfairly.
You forgot to include these:
- Additional fonts/selectable fonts
- Image support
Also, you can use Plucker without the
Can you or anyone else tell me which of the other formats, if any, can
work from a memory card as well?
If you can roll this up to include all of the suggestions so far,
I'll post it on the website as a Plucker vs. Other Ebook Readers article.
d.
With Plucker, you can any read news should be With Plucker, you can
read any news
Fixed, thanks.
d.
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I wouldn't mind a logo submission contest, and either choose a simplified
stylized pacifier or another logo, and use it consistently across
everything. Some prototypes submitted, then community votes. Similar to
the Debian logo decision some
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I'd like to suggest that the Docs link on the Web site be expanded.
Right now it takes one to the HTML version of the user manual, which is
buggy and out-of-date. There's a lot of other documentation.
I literally just unpacked
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For ILU, we used something called TIM, which is TexInfo Macros --
basically a feeble macro front-end for TexInfo. The macros added URL
links and images, which at the time weren't in TexInfo. It looks to me as
if Texinfo 4.2 will support both.
David, what is the preferred format generally? I'm not Tex or LaTex
(casing?) comfortable, but work decently well with XML and am
exceptionally comfortable with HTML.
I'm partial to SGML as a core format, others may differ.
I'm doing the Guide in HTML simply because it's universal,
One quick question. Where do I download the 1.2 source?? It isn't on
the downloads page.
A few ways, via cvs (cvs link) or the Snapshot link.
I'll pull the plucker_1_2 tag, pack it up and put it on the download
page for people who wish to download that directly instead of
Instead we used lynx and awk scripts to download and convert web pages
into records that were stored in the cache dir. When we had finished the
gathering of web pages we used a C program to send each record to the
Palm device and create the Plucker document on the device.
In 0.01
the error occurs also when i proceed the file itself offline.
What error?
What are your arguments to Plucker?
What operating system are you using?
hat version of Plucker?
d.
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1) No way to change the name of your channel once it is created without
re-creating the channel (the name displayed in the desktop tool does not
match the name of the pdb it creates). It seems to use the name you
entered when it asks for a
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I've done my homework, I believe, and rtfm, read the READMEand INSTALLand
REQUIREMENTS, and searched the mail archives for pilot.pm, but I'm still
having trouble building a pdb with images.
What the heck is pilot.pm, and what do you need
Yeah, that was a problem, but that is cause of the numerous first level
categories in the Wiki. You can move the categories too and reorganize
them better. I copied the Wiki almost completely. So, please don't blame
me too much for that ;).
The only problem with this, is now we
There is no beta12 package, but according to the messages I get, there is
still a reference to it from the Plucker web site.
DOH! Corrected. That's the problem with making incremental beta
announcements on the main page. Eventually you have to take them down, and
replace them with the
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After tinkering around with beta 13 a bit, I came up with some small
ideas that could probably sneak their way into the viewer pre or post 1.2's
relase. I've mentioned two of these before on the list, I think:
1. The Manual update
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First, let me say that this discussion has diverged from the
original topic to one of freedom and GPL/non-GPL advocacy, and is probably
going to continue to go way off-topic. If people wish to continue to discuss
this outside the bounds of a
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I have been acting as unofficial list moderator for a few weeks now using
the new facilities provided by mailman. I've got no problem with doing
this (actually I like the job, mostly) and I normally go through the list
of pending requests every
I have never used documents with owner ID protection and today when I
tried it out for the first time it didn't work. The zlib uncompress
function fails to uncompress any document that uses the owner ID
protection.
Is that with your updated zlib? It worked here in tests, with b12.
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This will hopefully prevent the use of these functions for DRM related
purposes while keeping their intent.
I really wish you would stop calling it DRM, because that's not what
it is. It is encoding a userid into the document header,
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Intellectual property is _property_, just as material objects are.
Unfortunately, no. And this is the crux of the problem, in fact.
You cannot say that intellectual property is property, just like a
house, or a boat, or a car. If
Governments should not bother preserving outdated business models.
The problem is that our current govenment is the whipping-boy of the
monopolistic corporations, who basically feed them pre-paid politicians
every year, and the only thing they are preserving is their continued seats
in
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* Expand Plucker Showcase
Expand it how? Not wide enough? Tall enough?
* Import sitescooper .site files to be used in Plucker Showcase -
there are a lot of them (although I don't like the everything on one page
approach that
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That's just protecting privacy. Fine with me. You are not distributing
that doc to other people and removing their freedom to share it.
Exactly. If the document does not belong to them, such as my online
financial bank statements, then
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If it prevents DRM to be implemented and later commercially exploited, it
may have its place.
Impossible, it's Open Source, we can't prevent anyone from doing
anything they want to the code on their own. Just as you can't prevent
someone
I thought both the spider and distiller were Python code.. So which
category do I use?
Python distiller.
d.
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It's pretty modular and innocuous, and is based on the current tip.
..and here's my attempt, using perl. It works for everything I've
thrown at it so far. I'll shim this into my spider and get some samples:
#
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I agree this is annoying. I don't know why BBC, CBC and The Onion all
insist on this for their otherwise very well designed mobile sites.
I wouldn't exactly call them well designed. I took some time
yesterday to clean the Onion's site,
That said, I'll add an option to my parser that will start a new paragraph
when two or more successive br's are encountered.
This shouldn't be necessary if/when Plucker gets support for CSS.
Incidentally, _you_ have a parser too? That makes how many now... 7
for all of
is there a big fat list somewhere that we can manage all the tasks or
where people can pick up on individual items todo? then folks like me
could pick up the slack for an hour, a half day, whatever for a very
specific task.
Once I'm done with the two items on my current plate, I'll
See http://www.plkr.org/list/2Q2000/0132.html for one suggestion I made a
very long time ago (the ascii picture is messed up by the mail archive
tool, though).
Hand-edited to correct that. I'll be rearchiving these soon.
d.
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I've heard other people say that, but I don't understand why. Here is the
part of the GPL that I believe actually specifically allows VB programs to
be considered GPL:
I wasn't speaking specifically of letter of the license, I was
speaking in the terms of the spirit of the license.
Is there a way to initiate hotsynching from the desktop? My Palm IIIc
doesn't appear to support that in the Palm Desktop.
No, not entirely possible, but you can look into a tool called
WarmSync on Palmgear or google. It may do what you're looking for.
d.
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