Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Brian,you might be correct with my own pc but we have 4 new Asus equipped pcs when i joined this company just about 4 months ago and at that time all our pc's were nothing but Protel 99se WITH Win98 and XPs licensed version so i think there is no problem with the master boot record but anyway we switched back to Protel 2.7 and i see those other guys trembling with fear when our workload increase in near future as they will have to manual route things and for me ,i translate .pcb files to OrCAD Layout to complete the job,thats much better.Anyway,i appreciate any replies from you all so i consider this problem as taken out already althought i will appreciate any response from anyone as i am aware that this is taken sometime for this list. TQ Choong Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) You may have a boot sector virus, or perhaps some other wacky software has installed data or code in your master boot record (on the C: drive). Correct, but if you don't have fdisk, the other way to fix the MBR: Install Win right from the CD, when your are given the chance to select a drive to install on, select 'delete partition', create partition, then do a full format, not a quick one. Note: this will KILL everything on your drive. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
ASUS, all my ASUS used to crash in general until I made these 2 changes in the BIOS: Change the DRAM latch timing from 0ns to 0.5ns. Change the AGP drive strength to manual, make N P control to F F. Or, improve on the motherboard chipset heatsink. This problem only reveals itself in the warmest of summer months. AC doesn't seem to help, don't know why. Maybe it's humidity barometric pressure. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 3:42 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Brian,you might be correct with my own pc but we have 4 new Asus equipped pcs when i joined this company just about 4 months ago and at that time all our pc's were nothing but Protel 99se WITH Win98 and XPs licensed version so i think there is no problem with the master boot record but anyway we switched back to Protel 2.7 and i see those other guys trembling with fear when our workload increase in near future as they will have to manual route things and for me ,i translate .pcb files to OrCAD Layout to complete the job,thats much better.Anyway,i appreciate any replies from you all so i consider this problem as taken out already althought i will appreciate any response from anyone as i am aware that this is taken sometime for this list. TQ Choong Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) You may have a boot sector virus, or perhaps some other wacky software has installed data or code in your master boot record (on the C: drive). Correct, but if you don't have fdisk, the other way to fix the MBR: Install Win right from the CD, when your are given the chance to select a drive to install on, select 'delete partition', create partition, then do a full format, not a quick one. Note: this will KILL everything on your drive. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
I dont know the motherboard specs becouse its a company pc but i will try to keep this in mind and check it up for all to see. Choong Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. thing I do on occasion, is to save my PCB work in ASCII mode, shut down Protel reboot, then re-load the new ASCII version, then save as normal binary, work from there. In the past, way in the past, this would help solve crashes due to Protel's handling of invisible, or, 0 radius ACRs in the design which somehow stay in the design, even after deleting them by hand. 2. Another thing to try might be to shrink your virtual memory to 256 megabytes. The .swp file is read and written so often that you HD may have a byte or 2 which are stuck even after re-writing. This did actually happen on my 80Gig WD drive. 3. Which chipset motherboard are you using? _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Or, improve on the motherboard chipset heatsink. This problem only reveals itself in the warmest of summer months. AC doesn't seem to help, don't know why. Maybe it's humidity barometric pressure. What a robust design - NOT!!! I have an Asus twin-PIII mobo (CUV4X, IIRC). It works fine even when the office is hot and humid (after a weekend of not running the office A/C). Perhaps an ACPI problem? One of my regular customers just had to patch his BIOS to fix yet another ACPI problem with XP. He uses a dual-PIII, same Asus mobo I do. Asus should have an ACPI patch for it. Worth a try? A side note: I have NEVER seen a desktop PC where power management worked correctly with no bugs. I switch all those power management features off so they won't crash or hang the PC. Anyone remember Microsoft's OnNow ? It was an attempt to make PCs boot quickly, within seconds. I guess they figured out it was too difficult to get everyone to comply to the specs necessary to make it happen, so it faded away. Plus, too much cruft and fragmentation would build up in memory in the same boot session anyway, necessitating a reboot if the Blue Screen of Death didn't get you first! OnNow: an idea whose time has come. And gone... Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... ASUS, all my ASUS used to crash in general until I made these 2 changes in the BIOS: Change the DRAM latch timing from 0ns to 0.5ns. Change the AGP drive strength to manual, make N P control to F F. Or, improve on the motherboard chipset heatsink. This problem only reveals itself in the warmest of summer months. AC doesn't seem to help, don't know why. Maybe it's humidity barometric pressure. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
What a robust design - NOT!!! I have an Asus twin-PIII mobo (CUV4X, IIRC). It works fine even when the office is hot and humid (after a weekend of not running the office A/C). My motherboard 2. It still needed the 0.5ns delay setting for the system DRAM. Robust, or not, with the ridiculous choice in system DRAM modules, I do not blame ASUS for the need to both place a DRAM delay feature in the bios, or, the fact that I need to use it for my 2GB of system memory. I bet it wouldn't be needed if I only had only a single 512mb module installed. A side note: I have NEVER seen a desktop PC where power management worked correctly with no bugs. I switch all those power management features off so they won't crash or hang the PC. This is true, If I accidentally put the system to sleep, it will never work the same again until I re-install win2K. There seems to be no corrective work around other than re-installing the OS. However, I be the problem could be traced to Anti-Creative Labs lousy audio drivers. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Or, improve on the motherboard chipset heatsink. This problem only reveals itself in the warmest of summer months. AC doesn't seem to help, don't know why. Maybe it's humidity barometric pressure. What a robust design - NOT!!! I have an Asus twin-PIII mobo (CUV4X, IIRC). It works fine even when the office is hot and humid (after a weekend of not running the office A/C). Perhaps an ACPI problem? One of my regular customers just had to patch his BIOS to fix yet another ACPI problem with XP. He uses a dual-PIII, same Asus mobo I do. Asus should have an ACPI patch for it. Worth a try? A side note: I have NEVER seen a desktop PC where power management worked correctly with no bugs. I switch all those power management features off so they won't crash or hang the PC. Anyone remember Microsoft's OnNow ? It was an attempt to make PCs boot quickly, within seconds. I guess they figured out it was too difficult to get everyone to comply to the specs necessary to make it happen, so it faded away. Plus, too much cruft and fragmentation would build up in memory in the same boot session anyway, necessitating a reboot if the Blue Screen of Death didn't get you first! OnNow: an idea whose time has come. And gone... Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 12:36 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... ASUS, all my ASUS used to crash in general until I made these 2 changes in the BIOS: Change the DRAM latch timing from 0ns to 0.5ns. Change the AGP drive strength to manual, make N P control to F F. Or, improve on the motherboard chipset heatsink. This problem only reveals itself in the warmest of summer months. AC doesn't seem to help, don't know why. Maybe it's humidity barometric pressure. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
1) You may have a boot sector virus, or perhaps some other wacky software has installed data or code in your master boot record (on the C: drive). Correct, but if you don't have fdisk, the other way to fix the MBR: Install Win right from the CD, when your are given the chance to select a drive to install on, select 'delete partition', create partition, then do a full format, not a quick one. Note: this will KILL everything on your drive. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Choong: My suggestions: 1) You may have a boot sector virus, or perhaps some other wacky software has installed data or code in your master boot record (on the C: drive). Some programs use copy protection schemes that do this - recent versions of Intuit's TurboTax programs do this, and it's caused problems for some of their users. Unfortunately, re-formatting does not necessarily overwrite the master boot record. To do this, you need to use the fdisk.exe program like this fdisk /mbr. I can't recall if you have to supply a drive letter to the fdisk command. Be sure your data is backed up BEFORE you do this. 2) In your PC's, you may have mismatched RAM types. With so many BIOS settings, speeds and types of RAM out there, it's easy to get RAM that is not really the correct type or speed for your PC. I've seen RAM that is marked as PC133 that would not work in PC133 slots, but worked fine in PC100 slots. The memtest86 program (it's free) will tell you how reliable your PC's RAM is. Get it at www.memtest86.com I've used memtest86 to find problems in several PCs that people assumed were software problems. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Been there,done that.I even formatted my pc and reinstall it and it still come with those random Error and Fatal Attraction dialoque.Been done with fresh installed WinXP on 3 other different machine too,its all the same.I have tried to use RegClean to do the job too,its all the same.There is no guarantee of the same nature but the style of the problem of crash is the same.I believe in my last call when i reformat my own pc and then run Protel 99SE,well its all the same and i consider my lucky only when for somehow it work till my job finished. Choong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would definitely try running Regclean to clean up your windows registry - seems to alleviate most random crashing. You can find it using an internet search. David Watling __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Mouse software? Choong JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to beat a dead horse, but what are you using for mouse software? - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine. Choong __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
All were use and tested on Win98 and WinXP.Btw i found out some problem with Protel 99SE Autorouter too this few days for the result is that it isnt working to way it should be.Imagine when i purposely use it to route a double sided high density small PCB and when i change its rules to route the same board in single sided mode,the copper tracks got shorted and crossed to each other and yet it said this is 100% routed! ,this is not something that should happen as our work is quite tedious and confusing at times so its like adding salt to wound. Choong Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still running Win98 as you had stated in your earlier messages? That would be the most common reason for your crashes if you are still running Win98. 99SE SP6 will run quite stably on WIN2000 Pro. Pretty stable NT4. Sincerely, Brad Velander -Original Message- From: Choong Keat Yian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sat 02/08/2003 5:49 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine. Choong __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
I think I might know what's going on. Can you try something for me? Make your .swp file 3080mb and see what happens. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Mouse software? Choong JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to beat a dead horse, but what are you using for mouse software? - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine. Choong __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
No, i dont think that its the mouse as my experience with 99SE is from Win98SE fresh installation and other existing pcs and also with original licensed WinXP,none of them use tablets but only normal mouse of differing brands,so i am still waiting for some miracle answer to this mystery. Choong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can confirm that some mouse software will screw things. I removed the Alps touchpad mouseware from my laptop and got much better behaviour, not only from Protel. It was so bad that on occasions the mouse cursor would just fly about the screen on its own, opening applications as it went... like something from the Exorcist! Robert __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Choong: My suggestions: 1) You may have a boot sector virus, or perhaps some other wacky software has installed data or code in your master boot record (on the C: drive). Some programs use copy protection schemes that do this - recent versions of Intuit's TurboTax programs do this, and it's caused problems for some of their users. Unfortunately, re-formatting does not necessarily overwrite the master boot record. To do this, you need to use the fdisk.exe program like this fdisk /mbr. I can't recall if you have to supply a drive letter to the fdisk command. Be sure your data is backed up BEFORE you do this. 2) In your PC's, you may have mismatched RAM types. With so many BIOS settings, speeds and types of RAM out there, it's easy to get RAM that is not really the correct type or speed for your PC. I've seen RAM that is marked as PC133 that would not work in PC133 slots, but worked fine in PC100 slots. The memtest86 program (it's free) will tell you how reliable your PC's RAM is. Get it at www.memtest86.com I've used memtest86 to find problems in several PCs that people assumed were software problems. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Been there,done that.I even formatted my pc and reinstall it and it still come with those random Error and Fatal Attraction dialoque.Been done with fresh installed WinXP on 3 other different machine too,its all the same.I have tried to use RegClean to do the job too,its all the same.There is no guarantee of the same nature but the style of the problem of crash is the same.I believe in my last call when i reformat my own pc and then run Protel 99SE,well its all the same and i consider my lucky only when for somehow it work till my job finished. Choong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would definitely try running Regclean to clean up your windows registry - seems to alleviate most random crashing. You can find it using an internet search. David Watling __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
do you mean single layer of routed copper ?
('single sided board')
or do you mean parts only on one side and 2 or more layers of copper?
if you mean the first then the autorouter will probably not work for you
as far as crashing that is really a shame
using P6 w/ windows 2000 i find it to be very stable
with WIN98 (a few years ago) i found it to be less stable but not too
bad if you reboot once or twice a day (before it crashed!)
256m ram is not a whole lot, but it should be enough i think
since you have tried several machines i think it is time to try a
generic mouse and mouse driver ( :) )
other than that i don't know what to suggest
have you talked to Protel?
Dennis Saputelli
Choong Keat Yian wrote:
All were use and tested on Win98 and WinXP.Btw i found out some problem with Protel
99SE Autorouter too this few days for the result is that it isnt working to way it
should be.Imagine when i purposely use it to route a double sided high density small
PCB and when i change its rules to route the same board in single sided mode,the
copper tracks got shorted and crossed to each other and yet it said this is 100%
routed! ,this is not something that should happen as our work is quite tedious and
confusing at times so its like adding salt to wound.
Choong
Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Still running Win98 as you had stated in your earlier messages? That would be the
most common reason for your crashes if you are still running Win98. 99SE SP6 will
run quite stably on WIN2000 Pro. Pretty stable NT4.
Sincerely,
Brad Velander
-Original Message-
From: Choong Keat Yian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat 02/08/2003 5:49 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using
Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is
that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much
other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all
the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i
still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i
have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple
machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's
graphic engine.
Choong
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Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
1. thing I do on occasion, is to save my PCB work in ASCII mode, shut down Protel reboot, then re-load the new ASCII version, then save as normal binary, work from there. In the past, way in the past, this would help solve crashes due to Protel's handling of invisible, or, 0 radius ACRs in the design which somehow stay in the design, even after deleting them by hand. 2. Another thing to try might be to shrink your virtual memory to 256 megabytes. The .swp file is read and written so often that you HD may have a byte or 2 which are stuck even after re-writing. This did actually happen on my 80Gig WD drive. 3. Which chipset motherboard are you using? _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Brian,setting virtual memory from 2X to 4X of the total Ram is what i always do,so now things got more interesting for this topic?Can we find a inspector Gadget on board who can solve this $12K mystery? Choong Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I might know what's going on. Can you try something for me? Make your .swp file 3080mb and see what happens. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Mouse software? Choong JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to beat a dead horse, but what are you using for mouse software? __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Not to beat a dead horse, but what are you using for mouse software? - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine. Choong Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Thanks to all who answered. I think the long term fix is to rip up the 35 polys, and do it properly by laying keepouts in the right areas and using as few polys as possible. Pain in the bum, but nicer in the long run. however, I think with these suggestions, I can wing it until it can be re-done. Cheers, TC __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
I would definitely try running Regclean to clean up your windows registry - seems to alleviate most random crashing. You can find it using an internet search. David Watling JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] bal.net cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... 04-Aug-2003 03:59 PM Please respond to Protel EDA Forum Not to beat a dead horse, but what are you using for mouse software? - Original Message - From: Choong Keat Yian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine. Choong Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Thanks to all who answered. I think the long term fix is to rip up the 35 polys, and do it properly by laying keepouts in the right areas and using as few polys as possible. Pain in the bum, but nicer in the long run. however, I think with these suggestions, I can wing it until it can be re-done. Cheers, TC __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Still running Win98 as you had stated in your earlier messages? That would be the most
common reason for your crashes if you are still running Win98. 99SE SP6 will run quite
stably on WIN2000 Pro. Pretty stable NT4.
Sincerely,
Brad Velander
-Original Message-
From: Choong Keat Yian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sat 02/08/2003 5:49 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc:
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using
Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that
it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than
cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it
got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why
my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a
Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old
and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine.
Choong
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Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
You know , i have have my own confusion both self afflicted and for using Protel.,Since i join this company i has been told to use Protel but the fact is that it seem to me Protel's old and new version do not alleviate anything much other than cosmetic and workaround change as the main sunject matter.Imagine all the feature it got but some is quite unusable for what it intended to be,and i still didnt know why my Protel 99SE with service pack 6 still crash even thought i have 256 mb ram on a Asus board with Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz.It happen on multiple machines both new and old and i dont think the problem is with the Nvidia's graphic engine. Choong Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, Thanks to all who answered. I think the long term fix is to rip up the 35 polys, and do it properly by laying keepouts in the right areas and using as few polys as possible. Pain in the bum, but nicer in the long run. however, I think with these suggestions, I can wing it until it can be re-done. Cheers, TC __ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Specifically GND Having the Browse PCB window not set to Rules.
Specifically GND Having the Browse PCB window not set to Rules, especially if you have 2 monitors... A message from way back, but it was completely ignored. When editing a PCB, espicially with a super large net like GND. This little annoying PCB Rules / Browse PCB (window) / (set to) NETS really is the culprit. Depending on video card, it may get ridicously worse, even with really fast systems. For those of use who dont has this panel visible, or just by luck dont have it on NETS when working on PCBs when we are at a huge net like GND, will experience this super slow Protel problem. Please ignore this message once again because I must be lying or something. _ Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:45 PM Subject: [PEDA] Analysing... I should have added, that it only happens when I edit anything on the GND net (the net with all the poly's). BTW, I'm using a P4 1.6 with 390Mb RAM Win 2k etc..etc.. Thanks again, TC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Terry. Welcome to the world of Protel. If you are only waiting 6 seconds for each Analyzing GND session, consider yourself extremely lucky. I have done boards that would take several minutes each time it would go south for the winter on an Analyzing session. This is my all time favorite Protel tie the computer in a knot trick. This is where I have even gone into the Task Manager, only to have it tell me that Protel is not responding, and then have Protel reemerge fine and still operatring properly after I walked away and took a very long coffee break. According to the Protel people that I talked to a little over a year ago, there is absolutely nothing that you can do about this one, except get up, and take a walk around the building each time it happens. I have had people make the suggestion to rename all of the nets, and I think that I may have even tried to do that, all to no avail. I have also had people tell me to turn off all on line DRC checking, but if I remember correctly, that didn't work either (or possibly it did, but left me to make such mistakes that I gave up on it). This is the one real time consuming bummer that I could never get around, and the one place where my systems would be most prone to crashing. The only answer that I have ever found was to delete all of the Polygon Planes, and always make them the last thing I do (although I do not think that that would not be the answer in your case with your 35 plane segments). I often wondered whether or not transferring all of the plane segments to a mechanical layer (or possibly just any different or unused layer) while working would allow me to skirt the problem, although every time I got to the point in the project where this became a problem, I never had the time to experiment with it. I have also wondered whether or not changing the resolution of the internal segments of the plane would have any effect, since it seems to go thru all of the small line segments of the plane and check them all, which I think is why it may take so long. This would in itself take alot of time with 35 plane segments. A faster machine is the closest I ever came to solving the problem, but even on a 2 GHz P4 with a 400 MHz bus, the problem is still there, although not as bad. This is one of those things that has even been brought up several times not only here (PEDA), but if I remember correctly, also in the DXP forums, all to no avail (Again, if I remember correctly, this is one of those posts that never gets answered by the boys down south in Oz). I know that Protel / Altium is aware of the problem in both P99 and PDXP, and I am pretty sure that they are trying to find a work-around or some other kind of fix for this in PDXP. Respecting a fix for PDXP, I would suggest that they somehow tag or otherwise identify all of the internal fill type segments of a plane on the first pass thru DRC, and then only if the plane changes (is repoured) do they have to recheck or reanalyze the whole of the segments of the internal plane. This would mean that they only have to DRC the outline of the plane against any other traces, which should be much faster (they may be doing this already). Another possible fix for PDXP would be to have a DRC mode that would go in and somehow tag or otherwise identify everything in the board that has already passed DRC, so that it would not be rechecked. Possibly the inverse of this would be more practical, in which any new additions or changes since the last DRC check would be somehow tagged or identified, and then a DRC could be run on just those items alone, so as to not recheck the entire board, which appears to be what is happening now. Yes, I still want my Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE, but even if they gave it to me, I don't think that there would be any improvement in this area. Respecting PDXP, I think that there should be at least some minor fixes or improvements in this area in the real SP3, if it ever gets here. Protel / Altium have taken enough time with working on the Pre-Release of SP3 and Pre-Release SP3.5 to completely rewrite the whole program from the ground up, so it will be interesting to see whether or not this works any better. It seems that whenever I or someone else really bad mouths some issue in PDXP, that it gives the people in Oz a little extra incentive to fix the problem. Maybe this will have some effect on future releases. Anyway, by the time you have read this, you will probably have completed the board, so this won't be a problem anymore, at least until the next time. JaMi - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:09 PM Subject: [PEDA] Analysing... Hi all, I've just been handed a rather large board with quite a few individual GND polygons on it (35 to be exact). I've been asked to clean it up so we can have a prototype made. Every time I make a change to the board, (ie, move track,
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
-Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:09 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Analysing... Hi all, I've just been handed a rather large board with quite a few individual GND polygons on it (35 to be exact). I've been asked to clean it up so we can have a prototype made. Every time I make a change to the board, (ie, move track, delete fill etc..etc..), after the edit, it sits there for about 6 seconds with Analysing GND in the status bar at the bottom, and then all is well until the next edit. I've turned off all online DRC checks, and anything else I could think of, to no avail. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get this done (and there's a lot to do...). Terry Some ideas for you. I have had some issues on this before with polygons made up of a bad selection of grid size vs trace width. If you do not need to get in and around some tight spaces keep the trace width as big as possible and have a reasonable overlap on the grid. The analysing GND issue I have seen when a single layer has been populated with multiple polygons connected to the same net overlapping to maintain connectivity. There are other cases where this can happen but I have found this to be the most common. Seems the connectivity engine gets confused, or has to work a lot harder when presented with multiple, overlapping polygon boundaries (same net). In some cases this can be the same polygon but with boundary points that intersect (seen this on some designs using star grounds where the connection to gnd was just polygon overlap). In some circumstances it may be preferable to pour multiple, same net polygons on the same layer that overlap but if you can use a single polygon (same net) and draw the boundaries to suit any splits or return path needs it will help a lot. Same issues if someone has poured a polygon of 0 or near zero size and it is either isolated (can never be connected) or is inside another polygon boundary. But 35 individual polygons of same net? That's a lot, is it possible for you just to clear them out (Use Edit, Query Manger to build a selection up for all your polygons on all layers of net GND and delete them?). The saving in time to delete all and re-pour against working as is, needs to be up to you. (use Query Manager to make sure you nail all polygons for deletion including zero or non visible ones). Hope this helps at least a little. Best Regards John A. Ross RSD Communications Ltd 8 BorrowMeadow Road Springkerse Industrial Estate Stirling, Scotland FK7 7UW Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 225 (Office) Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 248 (Lab) Fax +44 [0]1786 474653 GSM +44 [0]7831 373727 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW http://www.rsd.tv == * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Unfortunately I think the answer is get used to it. The only other way I k ow would be to reduce the number of ground tracks significantly by making the polys either a very coarse grid or no fill. basically protel checks every track and node on a net when you touch it. Normally for non power items this takes no significant time but fo ground it has to check (it thinks) each and every track that makes up the polys. unfortunately this checking is independent of any of the DRC, etc. type checks you have control of. Terry Creer wrote: Hi all, I've just been handed a rather large board with quite a few individual GND polygons on it (35 to be exact). I've been asked to clean it up so we can have a prototype made. Every time I make a change to the board, (ie, move track, delete fill etc..etc..), after the edit, it sits there for about 6 seconds with Analysing GND in the status bar at the bottom, and then all is well until the next edit. I've turned off all online DRC checks, and anything else I could think of, to no avail. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get this done (and there's a lot to do...). Any ideas? Thanks! TC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
TC, usually all it would take is to hide the GND net. In some cases it may be beneficial to also hide the larger VCC nets. To hide the net, Select the Browse PCB tab in the left explorer pane, Select Nets for viewing, select the net you want to hide, click the Edit button, check the hide checkbox. Visibly this will hide the GND ratsnest, not necessarily desirable but it solves the long delay issues. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail and any attached files may contain information that is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to another person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Nick Papas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:49 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Analysing... Try hiding all nets (Press 'N'ets, 'H'ide, 'A'll) Regards Nick Papas Performance Micro Systems Pty. Ltd. -Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2003 09:09 To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Analysing... Hi all, I've just been handed a rather large board with quite a few individual GND polygons on it (35 to be exact). I've been asked to clean it up so we can have a prototype made. Every time I make a change to the board, (ie, move track, delete fill etc..etc..), after the edit, it sits there for about 6 seconds with Analysing GND in the status bar at the bottom, and then all is well until the next edit. I've turned off all online DRC checks, and anything else I could think of, to no avail. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get this done (and there's a lot to do...). Any ideas? Thanks! TC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
I have had this happen i don't think it said 'analying' but it hung for a long time this was even on very very simple boards with no tracks and no pours when selecting inside an area i tracked it down to having a mech layer current and using select inside when there was a busy logo component on the top layer the primitives of the component were all top overlay fills, about one bazillion of them task manager said protel not responding but if you drink enough coffee for a long enough time it comes back it doesn't always do this though, just sometimes if i delete the logo i have never seen this behavioir Dennis Saputelli JaMi Smith wrote: Terry. Welcome to the world of Protel. If you are only waiting 6 seconds for each Analyzing GND session, consider yourself extremely lucky. I have done boards that would take several minutes each time it would go south for the winter on an Analyzing session. This is my all time favorite Protel tie the computer in a knot trick. This is where I have even gone into the Task Manager, only to have it tell me that Protel is not responding, and then have Protel reemerge fine and still operatring properly after I walked away and took a very long coffee break. According to the Protel people that I talked to a little over a year ago, there is absolutely nothing that you can do about this one, except get up, and take a walk around the building each time it happens. I have had people make the suggestion to rename all of the nets, and I think that I may have even tried to do that, all to no avail. I have also had people tell me to turn off all on line DRC checking, but if I remember correctly, that didn't work either (or possibly it did, but left me to make such mistakes that I gave up on it). This is the one real time consuming bummer that I could never get around, and the one place where my systems would be most prone to crashing. The only answer that I have ever found was to delete all of the Polygon Planes, and always make them the last thing I do (although I do not think that that would not be the answer in your case with your 35 plane segments). I often wondered whether or not transferring all of the plane segments to a mechanical layer (or possibly just any different or unused layer) while working would allow me to skirt the problem, although every time I got to the point in the project where this became a problem, I never had the time to experiment with it. I have also wondered whether or not changing the resolution of the internal segments of the plane would have any effect, since it seems to go thru all of the small line segments of the plane and check them all, which I think is why it may take so long. This would in itself take alot of time with 35 plane segments. A faster machine is the closest I ever came to solving the problem, but even on a 2 GHz P4 with a 400 MHz bus, the problem is still there, although not as bad. This is one of those things that has even been brought up several times not only here (PEDA), but if I remember correctly, also in the DXP forums, all to no avail (Again, if I remember correctly, this is one of those posts that never gets answered by the boys down south in Oz). I know that Protel / Altium is aware of the problem in both P99 and PDXP, and I am pretty sure that they are trying to find a work-around or some other kind of fix for this in PDXP. Respecting a fix for PDXP, I would suggest that they somehow tag or otherwise identify all of the internal fill type segments of a plane on the first pass thru DRC, and then only if the plane changes (is repoured) do they have to recheck or reanalyze the whole of the segments of the internal plane. This would mean that they only have to DRC the outline of the plane against any other traces, which should be much faster (they may be doing this already). Another possible fix for PDXP would be to have a DRC mode that would go in and somehow tag or otherwise identify everything in the board that has already passed DRC, so that it would not be rechecked. Possibly the inverse of this would be more practical, in which any new additions or changes since the last DRC check would be somehow tagged or identified, and then a DRC could be run on just those items alone, so as to not recheck the entire board, which appears to be what is happening now. Yes, I still want my Service Pack 7 for Protel 99 SE, but even if they gave it to me, I don't think that there would be any improvement in this area. Respecting PDXP, I think that there should be at least some minor fixes or improvements in this area in the real SP3, if it ever gets here. Protel / Altium have taken enough time with working on the Pre-Release of SP3 and Pre-Release SP3.5 to completely rewrite the whole program from the ground up, so it will be interesting to see whether or not this works any better. It seems that whenever I or someone else
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Title: RE: [PEDA] Analysing... Hi, Terry, Just hide the GND net to avoid annoying Analysing GND. Best Regards, luo. -Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:09 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Analysing... Hi all, I've just been handed a rather large board with quite a few individual GND polygons on it (35 to be exact). I've been asked to clean it up so we can have a prototype made. Every time I make a change to the board, (ie, move track, delete fill etc..etc..), after the edit, it sits there for about 6 seconds with Analysing GND in the status bar at the bottom, and then all is well until the next edit. I've turned off all online DRC checks, and anything else I could think of, to no avail. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get this done (and there's a lot to do...). Any ideas? Thanks! TC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Analysing...
Try hiding all nets (Press 'N'ets, 'H'ide, 'A'll) Regards Nick Papas Performance Micro Systems Pty. Ltd. -Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2003 09:09 To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: [PEDA] Analysing... Hi all, I've just been handed a rather large board with quite a few individual GND polygons on it (35 to be exact). I've been asked to clean it up so we can have a prototype made. Every time I make a change to the board, (ie, move track, delete fill etc..etc..), after the edit, it sits there for about 6 seconds with Analysing GND in the status bar at the bottom, and then all is well until the next edit. I've turned off all online DRC checks, and anything else I could think of, to no avail. I'm pulling my hair out trying to get this done (and there's a lot to do...). Any ideas? Thanks! TC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
