In article mailman.11028.1402548495.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
I'm just pointing out that our computational technology uses
over a million times more energy
in 723903 20140617 121638 alister alister.nospam.w...@ntlworld.com wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 08:34:13 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
Partly that. But also, people want to know how long that will *really*
last. For instance, 10 hours of battery life... doing what? Can I really
hop on a plane
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 08:34:13 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
Partly that. But also, people want to know how long that will *really*
last. For instance, 10 hours of battery life... doing what? Can I really
hop on a plane for ten hours and write code the whole way without
external power? Or will
Gregory Ewing greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz writes:
Current draw of CMOS circuitry is pretty much zero when
nothing is changing, so if you didn't care how slow it ran,
you probably could run a server off a watch battery today.
That was before 90 nm when leakage current started dominating over
Anssi Saari wrote:
That was before 90 nm when leakage current started dominating over
switching current.
Well, if you don't care about speed, you probably don't
need to make it that small. There's plenty of time for
signals to propagate, so you can afford to spread the
circuitry out more.
The
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 8:12 AM, Gregory Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
A few years ago jumbo sized but cheapish CULV laptops suddenly had 10
hours plus battery but did anyone notice or care?
I think people do care, it's just that going from
something like 6 hours to 10 hours is
On 07.06.2014 11:54, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
No. Cost is the issue (development, maintenance, operation,
liability...). Want an example? Here is one:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/14/06/06/1443218/gm-names-and-fires-engineers-involved-in-faulty-ignition-switch
Yeah this is totally
On 05.06.2014 23:53, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
or:
def make_street_address_map(info_list):
return dict((info.get_street_address(), info.get_zip_code())
for info in info_list)
or, what I think is even clearer than your last one:
def
On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 10:53:13 PM UTC+8, Mark H. Harris wrote:
On 6/4/14 9:24 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
Surely your local colleagues realize that Python has been around for
20-odd years now, that indentation-based block structure has been
there since Day One, and that it's not
Johannes Bauer dfnsonfsdu...@gmx.de:
def make_street_address_map(info_list):
return { info.get_street_address(): info.get_zip_code()
for info in info_list }
Live and learn. Have been an the lookout for dict comprehensions, but
didn't notice they were already included.
On 12 June 2014 03:08, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
We know *much more* about generating energy from E = mc^2 than we know
about optimally flipping bits: our nuclear reactions convert something of
the order of 0.1% of their fuel to energy, that is, to get a
On Sun, 15 Jun 2014 02:51:49 +0100, Joshua Landau wrote:
On 12 June 2014 03:08, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
We know *much more* about generating energy from E = mc^2 than we know
about optimally flipping bits: our nuclear reactions convert something
of the
In article 5399019e$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:48:36 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
In article 53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:16:08 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
I'm just pointing out that our computational technology uses over a
million times more energy than the theoretical minimum, and therefore
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:06:50 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:16:08 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
I'm just pointing out that our computational technology uses over a
million
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
It is my contention that, had Intel and AMD spent the last few decades
optimizing for power consumption rather than speed, we probably could run
a server off, well, perhaps not a watch battery,
Current draw of CMOS circuitry is pretty much zero when
nothing is changing,
I am bewildered by this argument...
[Heck Ive recently learnt that using ellipses is an easy way to
produce literature... So there...]
On Thursday, June 12, 2014 2:36:50 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
It is my contention that, had Intel and AMD spent the last few decades
optimizing for
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 05:54:47 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Thursday, June 12, 2014 2:36:50 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
The laws of physics tend to put
boundaries that are ridiculously far from where we actually work - I
think most roads have speed limits that run a fairly long
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
Chris made the argument that *the laws of physics* put limits on what we
can attain, which is fair enough, but then made the poor example of speed
limits on roads falling short of the speed of light.
On Thursday 12 June 2014 13:18:00 Chris Angelico did opine
And Gene did reply:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano
I'm saying that, whatever the practical engineering limits turn out
to be, we're unlikely to be close to them, and therefore there are
very likely to be many and
On Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:48:00 PM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano
Take three numbers, speeds in this case, s1, s2 and c, with c a strict
upper-bound. We can take:
s1 s2 c
without loss of generality. So in this case, we say that s2 is
On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 03:18:00 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
[...]
Take three numbers, speeds in this case, s1, s2 and c, with c a strict
upper-bound. We can take:
s1 s2 c
without loss of
Rustom Mody wrote:
JFTR: Information processing and (physics) energy are about as convertible
as say: Is a kilogram smaller/greater than a mile?
Actually, that's not true. There is a fundamental
thermodynamic limit on the minimum energy needed to
flip a bit from one state to the other, so in
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Everything *eventually* gets converted to heat, but not immediately.
There's a big difference between a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon,
and one that gets 1 mile to the gallon.
With a car, the engine converts some of its energy to
kinetic energy, which is
Chris Angelico wrote:
So, let me get this straight. A CPU has to have a fan, but a car
engine doesn't, because the car's moving at a hundred kays an hour. I
have a suspicion the CPU fan moves air a bit slower than that.
If the car were *always* moving at 100km/h, it probably
wouldn't need a
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 19:50:20 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Chris Angelico wrote:
So, let me get this straight. A CPU has to have a fan, but a car engine
doesn't, because the car's moving at a hundred kays an hour. I have a
suspicion the CPU fan moves air a bit slower than that.
I'm not sure
In article 53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine
heats a coolant (despite the name, usually not water these days) which
then heats the air.
Not
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 19:41:12 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Everything *eventually* gets converted to heat, but not immediately.
There's a big difference between a car that gets 100 miles to the
gallon, and one that gets 1 mile to the gallon.
With a car, the engine
On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 1:11:12 PM UTC+5:30, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Everything *eventually* gets converted to heat, but not immediately.
There's a big difference between a car that gets 100 miles to the gallon,
and one that gets 1 mile to the gallon.
With a car,
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:48:36 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
In article 53984cd2$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
Yes, technically water-cooled engines are cooled by air too. The engine
heats a coolant (despite the name,
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:28:43 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Not the point. There's a minimum amount of energy required to flip a
bit. Everything beyond that is, in a sense, just wasted. You mentioned
this yourself in your previous post. It's a *really* tiny amount of
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Automotive cooling fluid in modern sealed radiators is typically a
mixture of 50% anti-freeze and 50% water.
Sometimes it's even more than 50%, at which point
you really have an antifreeze-cooled engine. :-)
--
Greg
--
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
I'm just pointing out that our computational technology uses
over a million times more energy than the theoretical minimum, and
therefore there is a lot of room for efficiency gains without sacrificing
On Wednesday 11 June 2014 22:11:53 Gregory Ewing did opine
And Gene did reply:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Automotive cooling fluid in modern sealed radiators is typically a
mixture of 50% anti-freeze and 50% water.
Sometimes it's even more than 50%, at which point
you really have an
On Monday, June 9, 2014 9:50:38 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:24:52 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
CPU technology is the triumph of brute force over finesse.
If you are arguing that computers
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 23:32:33 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 9:50:38 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:24:52 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
CPU technology is the triumph of brute
On Monday, June 9, 2014 2:57:26 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer's_principle
Hey thanks for that!
Always thought something like this should exist but did not know what/where/how!
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 23:32:33 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Monday,
In article 53953616$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
Moore's Law observes that processing power has doubled about every two
years. Over the last decade, processing power has increased by a factor
of 32. If *efficiency*
On Monday 09 June 2014 02:32:33 Rustom Mody did opine
And Gene did reply:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 9:50:38 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:24:52 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
CPU technology is the
On 06/08/2014 10:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
A typical desktop computer uses less than 500 watts for *everything*
except the screen. Hard drives. DVD burner. Keyboard, mouse, USB devices,
network card, sound card, graphics card, etc. (Actually, 350W is more
typical.)
Moore's Law
Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com:
Looking at the whole system, about the only energy input that is not
converted to heat, would be the milliwatt or 3 of sound from the speaker
when it beeps at you, and the additional energy to spin the fans.
That all becomes heat as well.
The dust particles
Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com:
We used to tell people that computers make very efficient space
heaters. Because in fact they do.
And that's no joke. Our home in Finland is heated with electric
radiators. They are on 8-9 months a year. During those months, the use
of all electrical
On 6/06/2014 9:11 PM, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
The nice thing with optional type annotations and an hypothetical Python
compiler would be that you could, e.g., continue using the interpreter
during development and then compile for production use.
s/annotations/decorators/ and you effectively
On 2014-06-07 17:18, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Roy Smith r...@panix.com:
The original MacOS was written in Pascal (both applications and
kernel). Being able to touch memory locations or registers requires no
more than a few short glue routines written in assembler.
Pascal is essentially
In article 5393dd6a$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 20:09:37 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
We've also got machines that are so fast, it's not longer critical that
we squeeze out every last iota of
On Sunday 08 June 2014 10:51:24 Roy Smith did opine
And Gene did reply:
In article 5393dd6a$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 20:09:37 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
We've also got machines that are so
In article mailman.10878.1402242019.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure in
your mini. We've had quite a few Mac's in the tv station, as video
servers, graphics composers, etc. The airflow
On Sunday 08 June 2014 12:09:41 Roy Smith did opine
And Gene did reply:
In article mailman.10878.1402242019.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure
in your mini. We've had quite a few Mac's
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
I have lost several nvidia video cards over the years from fan
failures.
From a discussion on one of Threshold RPG's out-of-character channels:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
Leshrak: heh, yeah
Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FT in under two seconds.
I think that's about
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 4:09 AM, Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com wrote:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
Leshrak: heh, yeah
Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
Kurdt: Especially when
On 06/08/2014 06:14 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Sunday 08 June 2014 12:09:41 Roy Smith did opine
And Gene did reply:
In article mailman.10878.1402242019.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
You may want to reconsider that statement after the first fan failure
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
Leshrak: heh, yeah
Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It goes FT in under two
seconds.
I think that's
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:16:24 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 4:09 AM, Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com
wrote:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller. Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD
without a fan? ;) Leshrak: heh, yeah
Leshrak:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:16:24 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
wrote:
Chris Angelico wrote:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller. Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD
without a fan? ;) Leshrak: heh, yeah
Leshrak: actually. it's
On Monday, June 9, 2014 5:04:05 AM UTC+5:30, Sturla Molden wrote:
Chris Angelico wrote:
Kurdt: I wouldn't disturb the fan controller.
Kurdt: Ever seen an AMD without a fan? ;)
Leshrak: heh, yeah
Leshrak: actually. it's not a pretty smell
Kurdt: Especially when it's overclocked. It
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:16:24 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
wrote:
The fact that CPUs need anything more than a passive heat sink is
*exactly* the problem. A car engine has to move anything up to a tonne of
steel around at
On Sun, 08 Jun 2014 19:24:52 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Monday, June 9, 2014 7:14:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
The fact that CPUs need anything more than a passive heat sink is
*exactly* the problem. A car engine has to move anything up to a tonne
of steel around at 100kph or
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
The fact that CPUs need anything more than a passive heat sink is
*exactly* the problem. A car engine has to move anything up to a tonne of
steel around at 100kph or more, and depending on the design,
Am 06.06.14 13:20, schrieb Alain Ketterlin:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:
It's impossible to accidentally call a base class's method when you
ought to have called the overriding method in the subclass, which is a
risk in C++ [2].
I don't how this can happen in C++, unless you
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Many of these students suggest Python as the
development language (they learned it and liked
On 07/06/2014 09:20, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Many of these students suggest Python as the
Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk writes:
On 07/06/2014 09:20, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Many of these students suggest Python as the
development language (they learned it and liked it), and the suggestion
is (almost) always rejected, in favor
In article 87zjhpm8q7@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr,
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin
In article mailman.10852.1402154644.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Dennis Lee Bieber wlfr...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
On 07 Jun 2014 04:57:19 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info declaimed the following:
Swift is intended as a new generation *systems language*. The old
In article mailman.10851.1402154030.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Dennis Lee Bieber wlfr...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 08:52:36 -0400, Roy Smith r...@panix.com declaimed the
following:
You are lucky indeed. Trust me, in big companies, technical decisions
are often made by
On 06/07/2014 09:23 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On 07 Jun 2014 04:57:19 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info declaimed the following:
Swift is intended as a new generation *systems language*. The old
generation of systems languages are things like C, Objective-C, C#,
In article mailman.10853.1402162690.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote:
Technically C doesn't [have features to support hitting the hardware]
either, except via subroutines in libc, though C does have pointers
which would be used to access memory.
Several
On 06/07/2014 12:11 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
Several language constructs in C are there specifically to diddle bits
in hardware. Bit fields were in the earliest implementations of the
language to allow you to address individual bit control and status bits
in memory-mapped device controllers.
In article mailman.10857.1402167635.18130.python-l...@python.org,
Michael Torrie torr...@gmail.com wrote:
On 06/07/2014 12:11 PM, Roy Smith wrote:
Several language constructs in C are there specifically to diddle bits
in hardware. Bit fields were in the earliest implementations of the
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:13:42 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
About a decade later, said manager retired and confessed that the choice
of Pascal was a mistake
There's Pascal and there's Pascal. Standard Pascal, I admit, is woefully
unsuitable for real world work. But Pascal with suitable
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:11:27 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
And, why do you need a library routine to touch a memory location, when
you can just dereference an integer? :-)
And in one sentence we have an explanation for 90% of security
vulnerabilities before PHP and SQL injection attacks...
C is
In article 5393a264$0$29988$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com,
Steven D'Aprano steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info wrote:
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:11:27 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
And, why do you need a library routine to touch a memory location, when
you can just dereference an integer? :-)
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Roy Smith r...@panix.com wrote:
We've also got machines that are so fast, it's not longer critical that
we squeeze out every last iota of performance. Oh, but wait, now we're
trying to do absurd things like play full-motion video games on phones,
where
Michael Torrie wrote:
Technically C doesn't either, except via subroutines in libc, though C
does have pointers which would be used to access memory.
The Pascal that Apple used had a way of casting an
int to a pointer, so you could do all the tricks
you can do with pointers in C.
--
Greg
--
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
Not standard Pascal... It had pointer types, but no means to stuff
an integer into the pointer variable in order to dereference it as a memory
address...
Although most implementations would let you get the same
effect by abusing variant records (the equivalent
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 20:09:37 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
We've also got machines that are so fast, it's not longer critical that
we squeeze out every last iota of performance. Oh, but wait, now we're
trying to do absurd things like play full-motion video games on phones,
where efficiency equates
Roy Smith r...@panix.com:
The original MacOS was written in Pascal (both applications and
kernel). Being able to touch memory locations or registers requires no
more than a few short glue routines written in assembler.
Pascal is essentially equivalent to C, except Pascal has a cleaner
syntax.
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:14, Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting). Which
makes me think that a subset of python with the same type safety would
be an instant success.
Except that while you don't need to regularly
Travis Griggs travisgri...@gmail.com writes:
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:14, Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting). Which
makes me think that a subset of python with the same type safety would
be an instant success.
Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu writes:
On 6/5/2014 4:07 PM, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
When I compile Cython modules I use LLVM on this computer.
Cython is not Python, it is another language, with an incompatible
syntax.
Cython compiles Python with optional extensions that allow additional
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Many of these students suggest Python as the
development language (they learned it and liked it), and the suggestion
is (almost) always rejected, in favor of Java or C# or C/C++.
And it was
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:
On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
On 05/06/2014 21:07, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
On 05/06/14 10:14, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
Type safety.
Perhaps. Python has
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
On 05/06/14 22:27, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
I have seen dozens of projects where Python was dismissed because of the
lack of static typing, and the lack of static analysis tools.
[...]
When is static analysis actually needed and for what purpose?
On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Alain Ketterlin
al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
It's impossible to accidentally call a base class's method when you
ought to have called the overriding method in the subclass, which is a
risk in C++ [2].
I don't how this can happen in C++, unless you
On 6/6/2014 7:11 AM, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu writes:
On 6/5/2014 4:07 PM, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
When I compile Cython modules I use LLVM on this computer.
Cython is not Python, it is another language, with an incompatible
syntax.
Cython compiles Python with
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
When is static analysis actually needed and for what purpose?
For example WCET analysis (where predictability is more important than
performance). Or code with strong security constraint. Or overflow
detection tools. Or race condition
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Many of these students suggest Python as the
development language (they learned it and liked it), and the suggestion
is (almost) always
On 06/06/2014 12:28 AM, Travis Griggs wrote:
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:14, Alain Ketterlin
al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting).
Which makes me think that a subset of python with the same type
safety would be an instant success.
On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 20:41:09 -0600, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 06/06/2014 12:28 AM, Travis Griggs wrote:
On Jun 5, 2014, at 1:14, Alain Ketterlin al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr
wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting).
Which makes me think that a subset of
Sturla Molden sturla.mol...@gmail.com writes:
Dear Apple,
Why should I be exited about an illegitmate child of Python, Go and
JavaScript?
[...]
Type safety. (And with it comes better performance ---read battery
life--- and better static analysis tools, etc.) LLVM (an Apple-managed
project)
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Alain Ketterlin
al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting). Which
makes me think that a subset of python with the same type safety would
be an instant success.
In the same way that function annotations to
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 22:43:05 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
Many mail readers treat \t as a null char since it actually has no
standard translation into screen space.
I challenge that assertion. There are two standard translations into
screen space: jump to the next multiple of 8 spaces, or 1
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
Treating \t as a single space would be pathetic but standard. Treating it
as (up to) 8 spaces would be more useful, and standard. Rendering it as a
picture of a banana dancing on the ceiling would be silly and non-
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Alain Ketterlin
al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting). Which
makes me think that a subset of python with the same type safety would
be an instant success.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Alain Ketterlin
al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com writes:
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Alain Ketterlin
al...@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr wrote:
Swift's memory management is similar to python's (ref. counting). Which
makes me think
On Thursday, June 5, 2014 2:09:34 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 22:43:05 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
Many mail readers treat \t as a null char since it actually has no
standard translation into screen space.
I challenge that assertion. There are two standard
On 05/06/14 10:14, Alain Ketterlin wrote:
Type safety.
Perhaps. Python has strong type safety. It is easier to spoof a type in
C or C++ than Python.
Python 3 also has type annotations that can be used to ensure the types
are correct when we run tests. In a world of consenting adults I am
On 06/05/2014 08:10 AM, Sturla Molden wrote:
Perhaps, perhaps not. My experience is that only a small percentage of
the CPU time is spent in the Python interpreter.
Depends greatly on the type of application. While it's true that most
apps that aren't CPU bound are idle most of the time,
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 05:56:07 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Thursday, June 5, 2014 2:09:34 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 22:43:05 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
Many mail readers treat \t as a null char since it actually has no
standard translation into screen space.
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