Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 4 Mar 2011, at 18:16, Bob Spelten wrote: I have just looked at TurboPTR and discover that it allows you to set the colours of pan or scroll arrow, pan or scroll bar and pan or scroll section independently. EasyMenu allows you to do that too, but when you actually draw the menu in your program, it doesn't work! It shows default colours but when the menu is reloaded in EasyMenu the set colour are there. I have never before used any but the default colours with TurboPTR, but I can now confirm that the resulting window will in fact have the colours you have chosen. It's a bug. Presumably not repeated in TurbPTR. Maybe it is because I don't set up any app.window arrays in EasyMenu? I always do that in SBasic, that is much more flexible. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op 3/03/2011 22:33, Bob Spelten schreef: Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:59:31 +0100 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: I have never worked out hot to change the colours of the pan/scroll bars in QPTR correctly... I would have to revisit my Basic to check but I don't remember this being a problem. It is a problem in EasyPTR however, it doesn't show the arrow colour set up in EasyMenu. Therefore in SuQcess2 I use MSETUP/MAWSETUP and then poke the right color in the working definition before using MDRAW to show the menu. Bob Hi Bob, A few years ago in Eindhoven you showed how to obtain the correct colours with some peeks and pokes. Have a fine day. François Van Emelen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Fri, 04 Mar 2011 09:38:15 +0100 schreef François Van Emelen francois.vaneme...@telenet.be: Op 3/03/2011 22:33, Bob Spelten schreef: Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:59:31 +0100 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: I have never worked out hot to change the colours of the pan/scroll bars in QPTR correctly... I would have to revisit my Basic to check but I don't remember this being a problem. It is a problem in EasyPTR however, it doesn't show the arrow colour set up in EasyMenu. Therefore in SuQcess2 I use MSETUP/MAWSETUP and then poke the right color in the working definition before using MDRAW to show the menu. Bob Hi Bob, A few years ago in Eindhoven you showed how to obtain the correct colours with some peeks and pokes. Have a fine day. François Van Emelen I do remember. And I also showed you a new editor for SuQcess2 wherein a subfield could be picked up and dropped on another place. This technique was already used to select field names in the printer menu. For this option a text menu item is changed into a pointer sprite (code supplied by Marcel, I believe). So this brings back another Sprite question, what is the current limit for pointer sprites? The maximum I could make was a line of 64 characters or 384x10 (or 12?) pixels. Any more and SMSQ/E crashed, there obviously is no out of range test for this in GD2. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Bob Spelten wrote: So this brings back another Sprite question, what is the current limit for pointer sprites? The maximum I could make was a line of 64 characters or 384x10 (or 12?) pixels. The maximum for pointer sprites is I think 64x64 = 4096 pixels. Any more and SMSQ/E crashed, there obviously is no out of range test for this in GD2. Usually there are tests for this kind of stuff, but in this case it could be that they're missing, I don't know. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:10:02 +0100 schreef Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net: Bob Spelten wrote: So this brings back another Sprite question, what is the current limit for pointer sprites? The maximum I could make was a line of 64 characters or 384x10 (or 12?) pixels. The maximum for pointer sprites is I think 64x64 = 4096 pixels. Any more and SMSQ/E crashed, there obviously is no out of range test for this in GD2. Usually there are tests for this kind of stuff, but in this case it could be that they're missing, I don't know. Thanks. Now I have limit to stay away from to avoid crashes. BTW. The routine I used was from Per Witte and is on the Utilities page of my website. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 4 Mar 2011, at 11:33, Bob Spelten wrote: Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:59:31 +0100 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: I have never worked out hot to change the colours of the pan/scroll bars in QPTR correctly... I have just looked at TurboPTR and discover that it allows you to set the colours of pan or scroll arrow, pan or scroll bar and pan or scroll section independently. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Fri, 04 Mar 2011 18:51:58 +0100 schreef gdgqler gdgq...@gmail.com: I have just looked at TurboPTR and discover that it allows you to set the colours of pan or scroll arrow, pan or scroll bar and pan or scroll section independently. EasyMenu allows you to do that too, but when you actually draw the menu in your program, it doesn't work! It shows default colours but when the menu is reloaded in EasyMenu the set colour are there. It's a bug. Maybe it is because I don't set up any app.window arrays in EasyMenu? I always do that in SBasic, that is much more flexible. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 00:17:46 +0100 schreef Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net: Marcel, ... GD2: - Introduced the extended colour modes - Can use high colour sprites - Can use alpha blending for the sprites - As sprite data can become huge, I added simple RLE compression This probably means that somewhere in RAM an unpacked version is held and copied to the screen. Is there any way to peek the location of this from SBasic? - For solid sprites, the mask can be omitted entirely Your PNGCVT program can also make sprites with Bitmasks. When I examined the sprite headers I found no difference between them. For Bitmask or Solid mask, both mask pointers were zero. The only difference I found were extra bytes for this Bitmask, a Word for every line it seems. What's the reason for this Bitmask and how does GD2 keep them apart? - Sprites can be as huge as the screen (this change and the last one in effect makes sprites usable as a sort of QL graphics format. When using this to display photographs, the size gain in using RLE is often minimal. :( The big advantage is that GD2 handles the colour mode conversions automatically) Can I assume then that my mode 32 sprites will look alright on a mode 33 system? - introduced TRUE background I/O - can use a sprite as the input cursor - introduced system sprites (corresponding to the system palette users can exchange the sprites with their own and all compatible applications will use the new theme) You provided some nice examples for this but how can I turn my own sprites into system sprites from SBasic? As for PE for QDOS: - has all WMAN2 features except high colour support As for the rest of the stuff listed under GD2 I'm not exactly sure. Usually I tried to improve PTR_GEN enough so that apps developed for SMSQ/E can still work under QDOS (i.e. when you use system sprites, it will still work under QDOS). Under Minerva even the background I/O support should work. So far I have not been able to get a QDOS machine working with WM2. Even a simple boot with just the PE and Qpac2 will, after a few clicks makes a mess of the button contents, not clean up a closed Files window and eventually freeze the system. :'( Has anyone been successful at this? Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Bob, never tried it on the real black box, but I'm successfully running ptr_gen 2.0.1 against wman 2.05 in uqlx and Minerva. The trick is - don't use the newest ptr_gen, 2.02 and 2.03 proved largely too un-stable to me (at least on that platform) to be really usable. Cheers, Tobias -Original-Nachricht- Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2 Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:53:13 +0100 From: Bob Spelten b...@chello.nl To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 00:17:46 +0100 schreef Marcel Kilgus ql-us...@mail.kilgus.net: Marcel, ... GD2: - Introduced the extended colour modes - Can use high colour sprites - Can use alpha blending for the sprites - As sprite data can become huge, I added simple RLE compression This probably means that somewhere in RAM an unpacked version is held and copied to the screen. Is there any way to peek the location of this from SBasic? - For solid sprites, the mask can be omitted entirely Your PNGCVT program can also make sprites with Bitmasks. When I examined the sprite headers I found no difference between them. For Bitmask or Solid mask, both mask pointers were zero. The only difference I found were extra bytes for this Bitmask, a Word for every line it seems. What's the reason for this Bitmask and how does GD2 keep them apart? - Sprites can be as huge as the screen (this change and the last one in effect makes sprites usable as a sort of QL graphics format. When using this to display photographs, the size gain in using RLE is often minimal. :( The big advantage is that GD2 handles the colour mode conversions automatically) Can I assume then that my mode 32 sprites will look alright on a mode 33 system? - introduced TRUE background I/O - can use a sprite as the input cursor - introduced system sprites (corresponding to the system palette users can exchange the sprites with their own and all compatible applications will use the new theme) You provided some nice examples for this but how can I turn my own sprites into system sprites from SBasic? As for PE for QDOS: - has all WMAN2 features except high colour support As for the rest of the stuff listed under GD2 I'm not exactly sure. Usually I tried to improve PTR_GEN enough so that apps developed for SMSQ/E can still work under QDOS (i.e. when you use system sprites, it will still work under QDOS). Under Minerva even the background I/O support should work. So far I have not been able to get a QDOS machine working with WM2. Even a simple boot with just the PE and Qpac2 will, after a few clicks makes a mess of the button contents, not clean up a closed Files window and eventually freeze the system. :'( Has anyone been successful at this? Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/11 14:56, Bob Spelten wrote: I have just produced my first piece of asm that Gwass turned into a working bin function. (it took only a handful of system crashes, and I haven't even read Norman's series. ;) ) Sigh! I knew it was only George and me! ;-) Cheers, Norman. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
tobias.froesc...@t-online.de wrote: never tried it on the real black box, but I'm successfully running ptr_gen 2.0.1 against wman 2.05 in uqlx and Minerva. The trick is - don't use the newest ptr_gen, 2.02 and 2.03 proved largely too un-stable to me (at least on that platform) to be really usable. Well, then you'll also miss most features mentioned (like sprites with solid masks). Perhaps the uQLx patching does mess things up. Or there are still some bugs (of course very much possible ;) ), but the complains over the years were pretty much non-existent. I run 2.03 on QemuLator without too much hassle (the BGIO problem I found today notwithstanding). Cheers, Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Bob Spelten wrote: My question remains, why or when should I use Bitmask? Rules of thumb: - If the sprite is a complete solid rectangle, don't use any mask. - If the sprite is QL mode and has a shape, use a bitmask - If the sprite is high colour, use alpha mask I have just produced my first piece of asm that Gwass turned into a working bin function. Apparently GWASS supports LIB/INCBIN, so it should be fairly straight forward. So far I tried a Black Box JS +SGC and Aurora JS +SGC and many combinations of the PE2 trio. Strange, okay. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
JS ROM is needed at least. Works fine for me under QemuLator and Minerva, though background I/O seems to be partially broken. So far I tried a Black Box JS +SGC and Aurora JS +SGC and many combinations of the PE2 trio. I will give it another go with Tobias's suggestion. Bob I suspect there are two issues at work here. One version of ptr_gen fails to work correctly on some systems at least (including my Aurora) - avoid version 2.02 if it seems to be causing problems, often visible as display disturbances (garbage on screen, probably the background redrawing Marcel referred to). The notes on my website say you need at least JS, preferably Minerva, to use the full capabilities of the v2.03 ptr_gen. I have successfully used the combination of v2.01 ptr_gen, v2.05 wman and v2.29 hot_rext (I don't think hot_rext version matters too much) on my Aurora/SGC system, although admittedly I don't use it very often these days. (I use v2.01 rather than 2.03 of ptr_gen just because the Aurora has a JM ROM uinstalled for software testing.) Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/11 15:26, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Count me in too! Couldn't have written display_cde and other bits and pieces without your articles. THREE!! That's a 50% increase in readers since yesterday! Statistics - 86% are made up! ;-) Do you still use DJToolkit then? A lot of good stuff went into that one! I was clearing out some stuff just last week and found a ROM with DJTK on it. Shame I can't plug it in to QPC! ;-) I originally learned from Andy Pennell's books. Yes, me too. I still use the old Computer One assembler despite having planned to learn to use Gwass or Gwasl several times - lack of time etc (excuses, excuses). GWASL is simple: 1. Configure. (Once!) 2. EX gwasl_bin. 3. Press 1. Start Assembling. 4. Type ASM file name. 5. Press ENTER. That's it. Output file is whatever the source was called with _bin instead of _asm. Listing and errors go to _lst and the symbol table to _SYM. The only problem I have with gwasl is slightly irritating - if I'm looking at the errors in the _LST file, and I fix the _ASM file, when I try to re-assemble, I just get beeped at. Other than that, I use it for all my assembling - even though I paid for QMAC, QMAC upgrades and QMAKE. Cheers, Norman. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 15:59:37 +0100 schreef Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk: On 03/03/11 14:56, Bob Spelten wrote: I have just produced my first piece of asm that Gwass turned into a working bin function. (it took only a handful of system crashes, and I haven't even read Norman's series. ;) ) Sigh! I knew it was only George and me! ;-) I will probably dig up my old QL Todays and have another look at it. It should make a lot more sense now. ;) I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/11 14:56, Bob Spelten wrote: I have just produced my first piece of asm that Gwass turned into a working bin function. (it took only a handful of system crashes, and I haven't even read Norman's series. ;) ) Sigh! I knew it was only George and me! ;-) I will probably dig up my old QL Todays and have another look at it. It should make a lot more sense now. ;) I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Bob Good grief, somebody admits to undertsanding QPTR! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/11 15:26, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Count me in too! Couldn't have written display_cde and other bits and pieces without your articles. THREE!! That's a 50% increase in readers since yesterday! Statistics - 86% are made up! ;-) Well, my misinterpretation of the Quanta/QL Today subs figures goes to prove care is needed in interpreting statistics. In other words, I'm glad I'm not in charge of the results of today's referendum in Wales ;-)) Left to me, I'd probably have given Bethesda total independence, the Welsh Assembly would move to Bardsey Island and as for Anglesey... Do you still use DJToolkit then? A lot of good stuff went into that one! Why, do you happen to know the author or something? ;-) I was clearing out some stuff just last week and found a ROM with DJTK on it. Shame I can't plug it in to QPC! ;-) You probably could add it to smsq/e as a module to slim down your boot file by a line or two... I originally learned from Andy Pennell's books. Yes, me too. I still use the old Computer One assembler despite having planned to learn to use Gwass or Gwasl several times - lack of time etc (excuses, excuses). GWASL is simple: For you maybe... 1. Configure. (Once!) 2. EX gwasl_bin. 3. Press 1. Start Assembling. 4. Type ASM file name. 5. Press ENTER. That's it. Output file is whatever the source was called with _bin instead of _asm. Listing and errors go to _lst and the symbol table to _SYM. Sounds easy...until I get my hands on it, then George will wish you hadn't encouraged me :-( The only problem I have with gwasl is slightly irritating - if I'm looking at the errors in the _LST file, and I fix the _ASM file, when I try to re-assemble, I just get beeped at. Other than that, I use it for all my assembling - even though I paid for QMAC, QMAC upgrades and QMAKE. Ah yes, there's the option to remove error text after a failed assembly in the C1 assembler. But I really must make the effort to use something more modern, I know. It's actually remarkable how well the C1 editor and assembler still work on modern systems more than 25 years on! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
g On 3 Mar 2011, at 12:24, Marcel Kilgus wrote: - introduced system sprites (corresponding to the system palette users can exchange the sprites with their own and all compatible applications will use the new theme) You provided some nice examples for this but how can I turn my own sprites into system sprites from SBasic? SBasic? Probably not. But you can pretty much use my assembler source code unchanged (just exchange the _spr files and recompile). Of course, QMac is needed for this, though I guess it could be adapted to GWASS easily if it supports an equivalent to the INCBIN command. I cannot find INCBIN among the QMAC assembler directives. I presume that if it were there it would cause the inclusion of a binary file, already assembled. GWASS allows the inclusion of such files by LIB. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
gdgqler wrote: I cannot find INCBIN among the QMAC assembler directives. I presume that if it were there it would cause the inclusion of a binary file, already assembled. GWASS allows the inclusion of such files by LIB. Then your QMAC might be too old, at least 1.06 has INCBIN. But reading your manual you even included an INCBIN alias to LIB, so you must probably have heard of it before ;) In any case, GWASS will do fine I'm sure. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/11 15:41, Bob Spelten wrote: I will probably dig up my old QL Todays and have another look at it. It should make a lot more sense now. ;) Bob, there's something (fairly large) in your inbox. :-) Cheers, Norman. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Oh waoh, so, to guttenberg (sorry only the german readers will understand that) Norman, that's an increase in readership of 100 % (or is it? If you go from 0 to 1; by how mùany percent have you increased?). Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 3 Mar 2011, at 15:26, Dilwyn Jones wrote: I have just produced my first piece of asm that Gwass turned into a working bin function. (it took only a handful of system crashes, and I haven't even read Norman's series. ;) ) Sigh! I knew it was only George and me! ;-) Cheers, Norman. Count me in too! Couldn't have written display_cde and other bits and pieces without your articles. I originally learned from Andy Pennell's books. I still use the old Computer One assembler despite having planned to learn to use Gwass or Gwasl several times - lack of time etc (excuses, excuses). It is usually crazy not to use the available assemblers. My very first assembler coding was done using Andy Pennel's book and POKing the result into RAM. Later I used an assembler provided with the Thor 21. written by Eddy Yeung, who also wrote Workbench. But this assembler had faults which I could not get sorted because Eddy Yeung had gone abroad. I then started using Assembler Workbench, but that too was not satisfactory. For these reasons I reluctantly wrote my own assembler. With prodding from many people GWASS has been continually updated. I must say, though, that I can rarely use it without looking at the manual. Nevertheless I have almost got used to it and would probably not use another assembler. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 3 Mar 2011, at 16:38, Marcel Kilgus wrote: gdgqler wrote: I cannot find INCBIN among the QMAC assembler directives. I presume that if it were there it would cause the inclusion of a binary file, already assembled. GWASS allows the inclusion of such files by LIB. Then your QMAC might be too old, at least 1.06 has INCBIN. But reading your manual you even included an INCBIN alias to LIB, so you must probably have heard of it before ;) In any case, GWASS will do fine I'm sure. I'm amazed! Sure enough INCBIN is indeed in GWASS. I certainly have no recollection of its inclusion. Anyway, I hope people have fun using it. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:03:07 +0100 schreef Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk: I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Bob Good grief, somebody admits to understanding QPTR! It's been a while since I looked at the program (still under construction). One thing I couldn't get right was to include index bars, which he didn't explain fully. Nobody would be foolish enough to try that. :( Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:03:07 +0100 schreef Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk: I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Bob Good grief, somebody admits to understanding QPTR! It's been a while since I looked at the program (still under construction). One thing I couldn't get right was to include index bars, which he didn't explain fully. Nobody would be foolish enough to try that. :( Bob He he, ordinary pan/scroll bars in Easyptr can be fiddly enough to work with, never mind the bars you mention in QPTR! Not forgetting also that a hit on an app window can sometimes give two different values depending on whether it was the first read, or a second or subsequent read, like an auto-repeat. I had particular problems with that in the sbasic of my BMP conversion program which took me ages to figure out what was going wrong, though I don't remember the exact details without digging out the source files. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:39:18 +0100 schreef Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk: On 03/03/11 15:41, Bob Spelten wrote: I will probably dig up my old QL Todays and have another look at it. It should make a lot more sense now. ;) Bob, there's something (fairly large) in your inbox. :-) Indeed, Thanks Norman. That will keep me busy for a while. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:41:39 +0100 schreef Wolfgang Lenerz w...@scp-paulet-lenerz.com: I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Oh waoh, so, to guttenberg (sorry only the german readers will understand that) Norman, that's an increase in readership of 100 % (or is it? If you go from 0 to 1; by how mùany percent have you increased?). I am glad I named the author, otherwise my position might be in question. :D Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/11 16:41, Wolfgang Lenerz wrote: Oh waoh, so, to guttenberg (sorry only the german readers will understand that) Norman, that's an increase in readership of 100 % (or is it? If you go from 0 to 1; by how mùany percent have you increased?). Well, work it out 1/0 * 100 = 100/0 = infinity! You can't get any higher than that. You certainly guttenburged me there! Except, another infinity of course . ;-) Cheers, Norman. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/2011 18:15, Dilwyn Jones wrote: Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 17:03:07 +0100 schreef Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.uk: I did the same with Wolfgang's QPTR lectures, working through them when I really needed it. Bob Good grief, somebody admits to understanding QPTR! It's been a while since I looked at the program (still under construction). One thing I couldn't get right was to include index bars, which he didn't explain fully. Nobody would be foolish enough to try that. :( Bob He he, ordinary pan/scroll bars in Easyptr can be fiddly enough to work with, never mind the bars you mention in QPTR! Not forgetting also that a hit on an app window can sometimes give two different values depending on whether it was the first read, or a second or subsequent read, like an auto-repeat. I had particular problems with that in the sbasic of my BMP conversion program which took me ages to figure out what was going wrong, though I don't remember the exact details without digging out the source files. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I have never worked out hot to change the colours of the pan/scroll bars in QPTR correctly... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 16:16 +0100 schrieb Marcel Kilgus: Well, then you'll also miss most features mentioned (like sprites with solid masks). Perhaps the uQLx patching does mess things up. Or there are still some bugs (of course very much possible ;) ), but the complains over the years were pretty much non-existent. I run 2.03 on QemuLator without too much hassle (the BGIO problem I found today notwithstanding). Marcel, while we were there, I went back and tried several versions of ptr_gen versions on uqlx and minerva 1.98 (It's been some years back that I found the combination ptr_gen 2.01 and wman 2.05 works fine for me): p 2.01 Works fine, PE_BGON doesn't p 2.02 Random crashes, pixels go astray (Bob's symptom?) p 2.03 PE_BGON works, but have problems picking inactive windows (CTRL-C works, however) I can very well live with no background window update (Although I very much appreciate you made it working on SMSQ/E that I use on QPC and QLX- It looks like it has been considerable work), but not quite with having an unreliable PICK, so I went back to 2.01. What else beyond BG-Update am I missing? Could well be it's an uqlx-only issue, the only other non-SMSQ/E system I have that I could test on is the original box that currently waits for a VGA video converter because I no longer have a matching VDU. Cheers, Tobias ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:59:31 +0100 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: I have never worked out hot to change the colours of the pan/scroll bars in QPTR correctly... I would have to revisit my Basic to check but I don't remember this being a problem. It is a problem in EasyPTR however, it doesn't show the arrow colour set up in EasyMenu. Therefore in SuQcess2 I use MSETUP/MAWSETUP and then poke the right color in the working definition before using MDRAW to show the menu. Bob -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 03/03/2011 21:33, Bob Spelten wrote: Op Thu, 03 Mar 2011 20:59:31 +0100 schreef Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk: I have never worked out hot to change the colours of the pan/scroll bars in QPTR correctly... I would have to revisit my Basic to check but I don't remember this being a problem. It is a problem in EasyPTR however, it doesn't show the arrow colour set up in EasyMenu. Therefore in SuQcess2 I use MSETUP/MAWSETUP and then poke the right color in the working definition before using MDRAW to show the menu. Bob Ah - you could be right there - I was thinking about where I encountered this - it was mainly with Q-Route - which does use EasyPTR for this routine in the end... -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Tobias Fröschle wrote: I can very well live with no background window update (Although I very much appreciate you made it working on SMSQ/E that I use on QPC and QLX- It looks like it has been considerable work), And you're right with your assessment ;) but not quite with having an unreliable PICK, so I went back to 2.01. What else beyond BG-Update am I missing? I don't know, would have to look that up. The thing is, PTR_GEN shares a LOT of code with SMSQ/E, it's basically the SMSQ/E PTR driver stripped down. This is also the reason the current PE is not compatible anymore with OS prior to JS, because that would mean that the code could no longer be shared (for the background I/O stuff I needed extended data fields that were only supported from JS upwards). But if somebody can't even be bothered to update to JS... then I'd say it's a lost cause anyway. So, I could now reproduce some problems in QemuLator and even fix them! I'll send you a version to test off-list (Bob, you get it, too). The goal for me is that the current code base results in a stable PE. Cheers, Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 2 Mar 2011, at 14:23, Dilwyn Jones wrote: One of the things I've realised I've probably never seen despite using it so much myself is a short (one-line) description of what the Window Manager 2 is all about. As I understand it it is this, briefly: New WM vectors are provided dealing with GD2 colours. In particular there is WM.TRAP#3 which allows several trap#3 calls to set the new colours. These include setting colours for paper, strip, ink, block and border. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 02/03/2011 02:23, Dilwyn Jones wrote: I'm in the process of writing an article for Quanta mag about the new graphical capabilities of QL compatible systems. One of the things I've realised I've probably never seen despite using it so much myself is a short (one-line) description of what the Window Manager 2 is all about. Anybody (including Marcel, he wrote most of it) able to supply a suitable one line or one sentence (or failing that, one paragraph) description? It should offer a brief description of what the Window Manager is, to someone who may have neverused its facilities before or doesn't really know anything beyond the name. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I've not even heard of it! Bryan H ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 02/03/2011 02:23, Dilwyn Jones wrote: I'm in the process of writing an article for Quanta mag about the new graphical capabilities of QL compatible systems. One of the things I've realised I've probably never seen despite using it so much myself is a short (one-line) description of what the Window Manager 2 is all about. Anybody (including Marcel, he wrote most of it) able to supply a suitable one line or one sentence (or failing that, one paragraph) description? It should offer a brief description of what the Window Manager is, to someone who may have neverused its facilities before or doesn't really know anything beyond the name. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I've not even heard of it! Bryan H I'm sure there are plenty in your situation. This is why I was asking, so that I can get the best information to write an article for Quanta about the new(ish) Window Manager for people like yourself who either haven't heard of it or know little about it. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Op Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:20:26 +0100 schreef gdgqler gdgq...@gmail.com: On 2 Mar 2011, at 14:23, Dilwyn Jones wrote: One of the things I've realised I've probably never seen despite using it so much myself is a short (one-line) description of what the Window Manager 2 is all about. As I understand it it is this, briefly: New WM vectors are provided dealing with GD2 colours. In particular there is WM.TRAP#3 which allows several trap#3 calls to set the new colours. These include setting colours for paper, strip, ink, block and border. Spoken like a true machine code programmer ;) How about this: WMAN2 provides support for up to 32K colours for PE window elements, direct or through the use of 1 to 4 System Palettes or a User Palette set up in RAM. It also supports sprites in 8, 16 or 24 bit modes with Alpha masks or no mask, with RLE compression, of sizes only limited by its window and chained as extended sprites for each mode of the clickable items. Bob --- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ -- The BSJR QL software site at: http://members.chello.nl/b.spelten/ql/ ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On 2 Mar 2011, at 17:05, Bob Spelten wrote: On 2 Mar 2011, at 14:23, Dilwyn Jones wrote: One of the things I've realised I've probably never seen despite using it so much myself is a short (one-line) description of what the Window Manager 2 is all about. As I understand it it is this, briefly: New WM vectors are provided dealing with GD2 colours. In particular there is WM.TRAP#3 which allows several trap#3 calls to set the new colours. These include setting colours for paper, strip, ink, block and border. Spoken like a true machine code programmer ;) Thanks for the true. How about this: WMAN2 provides support for up to 32K colours for PE window elements, direct or through the use of 1 to 4 System Palettes or a User Palette set up in RAM. It also supports sprites in 8, 16 or 24 bit modes with Alpha masks or no mask, with RLE compression, of sizes only limited by its window and chained as extended sprites for each mode of the clickable items. You can use GD2 colours via S*BASIC with WM_BLOCK instead of BLOCK etc. but presumably these do not rely in any way on the vectors of WMAN2. In fact WMAN2 is provided just for assembler programmers isn't it? George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
One of the things I've realised I've probably never seen despite using it so much myself is a short (one-line) description of what the Window Manager 2 is all about. As I understand it it is this, briefly: New WM vectors are provided dealing with GD2 colours. In particular there is WM.TRAP#3 which allows several trap#3 calls to set the new colours. These include setting colours for paper, strip, ink, block and border. Spoken like a true machine code programmer ;) How about this: WMAN2 provides support for up to 32K colours for PE window elements, direct or through the use of 1 to 4 System Palettes or a User Palette set up in RAM. It also supports sprites in 8, 16 or 24 bit modes with Alpha masks or no mask, with RLE compression, of sizes only limited by its window and chained as extended sprites for each mode of the clickable items. Bob Seems comprehensive, although I'd probably have to include a glossary to explain the various terms - if people haven't heard of Wman 2 they are unlikely to know what Alpha masks, RLE, chained extended sprites and so on mean. But this is a good start I guess. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:41 AM, Dilwyn Jones dil...@evans1511.fsnet.co.ukwrote: Seems comprehensive, although I'd probably have to include a glossary to explain the various terms - if people haven't heard of Wman 2 they are unlikely to know what Alpha masks, RLE, chained extended sprites and so on mean. But this is a good start I guess. I have not heard of WMAN2. I know what alpha masks and run length encoding are, but not the others. I have no clue how they're implemented or used on a QL. Definitely a technical glossary is needed, where each entry starts with OVERVIEW for us dummies, and DETAILS for closer study. Or, the very neat CONCEPTS manual pioneered by some guy called Clive. Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Window Manager 2
Bob Spelten wrote: WMAN2 provides support for up to 32K colours for PE window elements, direct or through the use of 1 to 4 System Palettes or a User Palette set up in RAM. True. This was the main reason for WMAN2. It also supports sprites in 8, 16 or 24 bit modes with Alpha masks or no mask, with RLE compression, of sizes only limited by its window These, however, are strictly speaking not WMAN2 features, but GD2 features (the original GD2 drivers didn't have them either, I added that stuff later). and chained as extended sprites for each mode of the clickable items. This, again, is a WMAN2 feature. Okay, I'll try to reiterate the facts: WMAN2 is like WMAN1, but: - can make use of high colour (GD2) drivers - introduced the system palette so that windows can conform to a colour theme of the user's choice - sprites in loose items (buttons) can change depending on the fact if the item is selected, the mouse is hovering above the item etc. - can show the whole window while a window is moved, or at least its outline, instead of just the move sprite. - includes 3D border styles to give windows a more modern 3D look GD2: - Introduced the extended colour modes - Can use high colour sprites - Can use alpha blending for the sprites - As sprite data can become huge, I added simple RLE compression - For solid sprites, the mask can be omitted entirely - Sprites can be as huge as the screen (this change and the last one in effect makes sprites usable as a sort of QL graphics format. The big advantage is that GD2 handles the colour mode conversions automatically) - introduced TRUE background I/O - can use a sprite as the input cursor - introduced system sprites (corresponding to the system palette users can exchange the sprites with their own and all compatible applications will use the new theme) - introduced true shadows for high colour modes As for PE for QDOS: - has all WMAN2 features except high colour support As for the rest of the stuff listed under GD2 I'm not exactly sure. Usually I tried to improve PTR_GEN enough so that apps developed for SMSQ/E can still work under QDOS (i.e. when you use system sprites, it will still work under QDOS). Under Minerva even the background I/O support should work. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
