[qubes-users] Re: Restart sound card "state"..?

2016-10-15 Thread pixel fairy
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 12:24:41 AM UTC-4, neilh...@gmail.com wrote: > When I first installed Qubes, my webcam/mic was plugged in. > > I have since removed the webcam/mic physically. > click on the volume icon on top and pick audio mixer. the third tab is output devices. see if a

[qubes-users] Re: Possible to run a launcher (like Synapse) in Qubes?

2016-10-15 Thread pixel fairy
On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 6:43:54 PM UTC-4, Gaiko Kyofusho wrote: > given qubes separation is it possible to run something like Synapse (or some > similar launcher) in Qubes? > > It would be awesome to have times that one could say start typing the VM Name > then start typing the app . >

[qubes-users] Re: Possible to run a launcher (like Synapse) in Qubes?

2016-10-15 Thread pixel fairy
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:13:05 AM UTC-4, pixel fairy wrote: > On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 6:43:54 PM UTC-4, Gaiko Kyofusho wrote: > > given qubes separation is it possible to run something like Synapse (or > > some similar launcher) in Qubes? > > theres nothing in qubes preventing

[qubes-users] Re: Restart sound card "state"..?

2016-10-15 Thread neilhardley
OK. Solved. It was muted in "output devices". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group,

[qubes-users] Encrypted /boot partition

2016-10-15 Thread qubic
I'm trying to set up Qubes with FDE including the boot partition but I'm running in to some issues. I can get grub to decrypt the partition but can't get past the initram stage. I've added a rescue shell into dracut to help diagnose the boot issues and it looks like the logical volumes in my luks

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 12:14:44 AM UTC-4, pleo...@gmail.com wrote: > philosofy of qubes is that you are safe when your app is isolatet.This is > wrong just keep app in sandboxes or jails and what wrong can be happen? I think its more like you can never be 100% safe lol. sanboxes are

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Bug or Feature? DispVM inherits settings from calling VM

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 11:06:48 PM UTC-4, Andrew David Wong wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 2016-10-14 15:18, raahe...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 6:16:16 PM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > >> On Thursday, October 13, 2016 at

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Bug or Feature? DispVM inherits settings from calling VM

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:23:12 AM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 11:06:48 PM UTC-4, Andrew David Wong wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA512 > > > > On 2016-10-14 15:18, raahe...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Friday, October 14, 2016

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
in AppVM is the same topology sys so its posible chain logic atack.1 break exploit get down and other vms have the same system so its like domino.Multiple topology can solve this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe

[qubes-users] Anonymize MAC address

2016-10-15 Thread pl11ty
Anyone? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
you never break armored ubuntu,this is fact... dont try be einstein to know some way to do this.No way. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread Andrew
pleom...@gmail.com: > If there is no user acces control like a real root real user then its no > sense to use it. > I think you've missed something pretty fundamental. Throw out everything you know about the Linux kernel and how it enforces security (including MAC). Qubes takes the position

[qubes-users] Re:Persistant routes on Qubes are not persistant?!

2016-10-15 Thread 4lj7sp+iurnm2duwf1g via qubes-users
bump Does anyone knows how to set static routes persistently into the sys-firewall? Thanks Sent using GuerrillaMail.com Block or report abuse: https://www.guerrillamail.com/abuse/?a=UFR2AB5NVqcQmh2U93EQdRjCStifx8dDiadNcQ%3D%3D -- You received this message because you are subscribed

[qubes-users] Re: ANN: Leakproof Qubes VPN

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
my vpn connection is good bcs its connect openvpn --config qubes-vpn.conf its something with your script,have you test it whith fedora minimal? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
for an example it was much better for security if that no build on the same but somethin like this ubuntu (sys-net)-pfsense(sys-firewall)- appVM (debian or fedora) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group

[qubes-users] Persistant routes on Qubes are not persistant?!

2016-10-15 Thread 4li11b+ehek5v7n6mpmg via qubes-users
Hello, I need to add some static routes since I'm using a network with different GWs. For that reason I've tried to add some static routes through the NetworkManager which maps all the configuration into a file called qubes-uplink-eth0 . Strangely and since this file is within the private disk

[qubes-users] Re: Maybe a provocative question

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:04:46 PM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:03:43 PM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-4, QubesOS User wrote: > > > Hello everyone, > > > > > > I could imagine that this question

[qubes-users] Re: Maybe a provocative question

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-4, QubesOS User wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I could imagine that this question has been discussed before already, and if > this should be the case, then I'm very sorry for posting this (I'd be > thankful for an according link if so though). > >

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
If there is no user acces control like a real root real user then its no sense to use it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
the idea of apparmor is to resist to app to resources they need to run and nothing more. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread johnyjukya
> Andrew: > This kind of security-first posture is what has made Qubes famous. I agree that Qubes separation is probably the most secure basis for a reasonably usable PC-based platform today. It's all I'll use. (I worry about 4.0 not working on my hardware, tho. And upgrading hardware brings

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 9:17:14 PM UTC-4, johny...@sigaint.org wrote: > > Andrew: > > This kind of security-first posture is what has made Qubes famous. > > I agree that Qubes separation is probably the most secure basis for a > reasonably usable PC-based platform today. It's all I'll

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/15/2016 04:56 PM, 4lgaqp+cqeepdnbinsts via qubes-users wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Thanks for the suggestion. > Just to clarify, the VPN tunnel was created within the sys-firewall, I believe the VPN set up by the instructions in the official docs interfere with the updates proxy functionality.

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:09:00 PM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:08:24 PM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:48:16 PM UTC-4, pleo...@gmail.com wrote: > > > @ raa...@gmail.com > > > > > > dont know if this have any

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread Andrew
pleom...@gmail.com: > But look every vms in qubes base on the same,so if someone compromize sys-net > VM then it should not be so hard to compromize other VMs. > It would compromise sys-net. Any writes to the template-based volume (with /bin, /usr, /var, etc.) are discarded upon VM reboot.

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/15/2016 04:56 PM, 4lgaqp+cqeepdnbinsts via qubes-users wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Thanks for the suggestion. > Just to clarify, the VPN tunnel was created within the sys-firewall, and > currently that's the only proxyVM that I'm using (apart from the sys-whonix), > hence all traffic from the

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread Andrew
pleom...@gmail.com: > or the worst thing if hacker cant do this he can try to compromize > sys-firewall in the same way as sysnet bcs its the same topology.And after > compromizing sys-firewall then can do whatever he like. > I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Anyway it should be

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 10:02:32 PM UTC-4, pleo...@gmail.com wrote: > for an example it was much better for security if that no build on the same > but somethin like this > > ubuntu (sys-net)-pfsense(sys-firewall)- appVM (debian or fedora) again probably only making a real difference

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
unikernel u mean this? http://roscidus.com/blog/blog/2016/01/01/a-unikernel-firewall-for-qubesos/ i have installed it and work good. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from

[qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread 4limaw+5vktrow980bj4 via qubes-users
I was finally able to put this to work! I have to set the sys-firewall as a qubes-yum-proxy forcing also all the apt/yum traffic through the tunnel. Everything seems to be working fine now, although I do get a warning on the sys-firewall on the firewall settings while using the Qubes VM Manager:

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:08:24 PM UTC-4, raah...@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:48:16 PM UTC-4, pleo...@gmail.com wrote: > > @ raa...@gmail.com > > > > dont know if this have any sense bcs everything in qubes in default > > configuration is user accesible.Firstly

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:48:16 PM UTC-4, pleo...@gmail.com wrote: > @ raa...@gmail.com > > dont know if this have any sense bcs everything in qubes in default > configuration is user accesible.Firstly to use this it should be configured > user acces control wich qubes dont provide in

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
look guys if someone compromize sys-net then go route trafic by fake dns and sites.You paste your credit card or something and all data goes to the hacker. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread johnyjukya
> Ok, so I tried to enable the updates proxy in the sys-firewall > consequently forcing all updates to go through the VPN, I followed the > instructions outlined here - > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/software-update-vm/#updates-proxy > However, as soon as I try to run the updates on one of the

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Maybe a provocative question

2016-10-15 Thread QubesOS User
16.10.2016, 01:03, "raahe...@gmail.com" : > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-4, QubesOS User wrote: >>  Hello everyone, >> >>  I could imagine that this question has been discussed before already, and >> if this should be the case, then I'm very sorry for

Re: [qubes-users] Android development under QubesOS

2016-10-15 Thread Torsten Grote
On 10/15/2016 03:38 PM, Alex wrote: > I've had luck with Alcatel Pixi 3 and Wiko Jerry, but there's no way of > forwarding an Asus Zenfone 4 - it just resets itself and returns to usbvm. Check this issue that describes the problem and some workarounds:

Re: [qubes-users] Android development under QubesOS

2016-10-15 Thread Vít Šesták
Well, you can select ARM in the emulator. While it reduces performance (you need to actually emulate the instructions), it works. I've also tried installing Android in a HVM, it worked somehow, but it was not very usable. Most notably, there was a problem with mapping touches to mouse. (Well,

[qubes-users] Re: QUBES 3.2 won't install... EFI_MEMMAP is not enabled... ESRT header is not in the memory map

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 6:05:39 PM UTC-4, aldenj...@gmail.com wrote: > I have the same issue! see if you can select legacy boot mode in your bios and then install qubes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe

[qubes-users] Maybe a provocative question

2016-10-15 Thread QubesOS User
Hello everyone, I could imagine that this question has been discussed before already, and if this should be the case, then I'm very sorry for posting this (I'd be thankful for an according link if so though). I think that I've gained quite much knowledge about possible attack surfaces

Re: [qubes-users] Re:Persistant routes on Qubes are not persistant?!

2016-10-15 Thread johnyjukya
>> Does anyone knows how to set static routes persistently into the >> sys-firewall? NetworkManager lets you add static routes for a network card. You might be able to get what you want by adding and checking off the 'network-manager' service for the VM (and restarting), then configuring the

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/16/2016 12:16 AM, pleom...@gmail.com wrote: > look guys if someone compromize sys-net then go route trafic by fake dns and > sites.You paste your credit card or something and all data goes to the hacker. If someone compromises the network card of your AppArmor-enabled Ubuntu instance, the

Re: [qubes-users] Re: ANN: Leakproof Qubes VPN

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/16/2016 01:03 AM, pleom...@gmail.com wrote: > my vpn connection is good bcs its connect > openvpn --config qubes-vpn.conf That's not what I asked for. Please give me the information required by the Troubleshooting section of the README.md file in the project Otherwise I cannot debug the

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
look at qubes how is it build? vitrualisation of the same environment 1-2-3 is separated but its still the same so somoene exploit 1 then exploit 2-3 on recursive. i mean by this vitrualisation same topology. So what i mean is better way to multiple topology than avoid recursive exploits.

[qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread 4li11b+ehek5v7n6mpmg via qubes-users
Ok, so I tried to enable the updates proxy in the sys-firewall consequently forcing all updates to go through the VPN, I followed the instructions outlined here - https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/software-update-vm/#updates-proxy However, as soon as I try to run the updates on one of the vmtemplate

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread Chris Laprise
On 10/15/2016 12:56 PM, 4lgaqp+cqeepdnbinsts via qubes-users wrote: Hi Chris, Thanks for the suggestion. Just to clarify, the VPN tunnel was created within the sys-firewall, and currently that's the only proxyVM that I'm using (apart from the sys-whonix), hence all traffic from the sys-net

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread Andrew
Andrew: > pleom...@gmail.com: >> If there is no user acces control like a real root real user then its no >> sense to use it. >> > > I think you've missed something pretty fundamental. > > Throw out everything you know about the Linux kernel and how it enforces > security (including MAC).

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
I would love to see an openbsd, or some more hardened sys-firewall. There have been some community efforts maybe you can create one. we have minimal templates available now. I read about a unikernel someone made for qubes that looked interesting. Maybe you can create something. Qubes team

Re: [qubes-users] SMB mount point location

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/13/2016 02:25 PM, John Maher wrote: > On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 12:06:15 PM UTC-4, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) > wrote: >> On 10/12/2016 12:55 PM, John Maher wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I'm trying to access file on the command line through an SMB mount point >>> that is created in the

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
But i prefer to build that kind of sys-firewall on something like pfsense bcs its real firewall. Tell me how to build pFsense (or something familiar) firewall on Qubes and set to default. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
Ok i probobly figure it out how to do this.Install pfsense as HVM configure and then in qubes managment change HVM to proxy VM.But i dont know how to do this... maybe create proxyVM as name pfsense then delete in directory via terminal and copy HVM on the same name so qubes will see it as a

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread pleomati
I dont know how to install it,im so stupid omg.Maybe like ProxyVM and route trafic by pFsense? but its no option to choice only fedora debian.WTF im so stupid.I dont know how to install it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Maybe a provocative question

2016-10-15 Thread QubesOS User
You mentioned some good points about QubesOS. One thing I definitely dislike about QubesOS (and that's no offense of course - it's simply unavoidable, and of course that's not the developers' fault - in contrast I couldn't imagine how they could optimize it even more [maybe one could do so as a

Re: [qubes-users] Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread Chris Laprise
On 10/15/2016 08:07 AM, 4lef7a+2cmotzqtxu8g8 via qubes-users wrote: Hi, I've followed this tutorial in order to force all traffic to go through the VPN - https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/vpn/ . While this was successful I'm no longer able to do any updates on the templateVMs (except the whonix

Re: [qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/15/2016 01:04 PM, pleom...@gmail.com wrote: > you never break armored ubuntu,this is fact... dont try be einstein to know > some way to do this.No way. > This e-mail in particular has caused me to burst into uncontrollable laughter. -- Rudd-O http://rudd-o.com/ -- You received

[qubes-users] Re: philosofy on qubes and other environment

2016-10-15 Thread raahelps
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 7:35:47 AM UTC-4, pleo...@gmail.com wrote: > i realy think that is more safer Ubuntu apparmored than this qubes OS. u can use apparmor with debian in qubes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To

Re: [qubes-users] Anonymize MAC address

2016-10-15 Thread Chris Laprise
On 10/15/2016 08:59 AM, pl1...@sigaint.org wrote: Anyone? Instructions for MAC anonymization have just been updated: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/anonymizing-your-mac-address/ Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To

Re: [qubes-users] Can't Install KB3177467 on Windows HVM Template

2016-10-15 Thread entr0py
John Marrett: > I've been running windows template HVMs for some time now and it's working > quite well once you get past the initial patch installation. > > I now have an issue where I can't successfully install the 11/10/2016 > update to KB3177467. After each installation and the required

Re: [qubes-users] Error Debian Standalone restart

2016-10-15 Thread Unman
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 10:54:11PM -0700, '09348'103248'109438'019438 wrote: > Hello, > > uner QR32 an D8 standalone restart via QM is running into the error > > line: assert no vm.is running() > func: start_vm > line_no: 1158 > > ?? > > Kind Regards > It works flawlessly for me - which

Re: [qubes-users] Android development under QubesOS

2016-10-15 Thread Marek Marczykowski-Górecki
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 08:38:58PM +0200, Alex wrote: > On 10/15/2016 08:33 PM, York Keyser wrote: > > Hi group, > > > > I want to develop an Android application and have a special VM for > > that and also I have a sis-USB VM. So now there is my

[qubes-users] Can't Install KB3177467 on Windows HVM Template

2016-10-15 Thread John Marrett
I've been running windows template HVMs for some time now and it's working quite well once you get past the initial patch installation. I now have an issue where I can't successfully install the 11/10/2016 update to KB3177467. After each installation and the required reboot the patch continues to

[qubes-users] Re: Unable to uptade templates affer forced all traffic trhough VPN

2016-10-15 Thread 4lgpou+6fbuwvbjmjbe8 via qubes-users
Unfortunately I overlooked the config. There's already an automatic rule that whitelists all VMs that are marked to 'Allow connections to Updates proxy' to connect to the proxy on port 8082, therefore my suggestion would not work (specially given the fact that the rule to block all traffic is

[qubes-users] Android development under QubesOS

2016-10-15 Thread York Keyser
Hi group, I want to develop an Android application and have a special VM for that and also I have a sis-USB VM. So now there is my problem, how can I forward the phone over USB to my developer VM. So I am able to debug on the device. Somebody in the group who have already solved this kind

Re: [qubes-users] Android development under QubesOS

2016-10-15 Thread Vít Šesták
The security of ADB over USB is rather a mystery. Since some Android version (Jelly Bean?), Android needs confirmation of fingerprint of the host when connecting over USB (!). Sure, even authentication of USB host has some merit, which I am not going to discuss right now. However, when enabling

[qubes-users] Re: Possible to run a launcher (like Synapse) in Qubes?

2016-10-15 Thread gaikokujinkyofusho
On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:18:12 AM UTC-4, pixel fairy wrote: > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:16:23 AM UTC-4, pixel fairy wrote: > > On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 4:13:05 AM UTC-4, pixel fairy wrote: > > > On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 6:43:54 PM UTC-4, Gaiko Kyofusho wrote: > > >

Re: [qubes-users] Android development under QubesOS

2016-10-15 Thread Alex
On 10/15/2016 08:33 PM, York Keyser wrote: > Hi group, > > I want to develop an Android application and have a special VM for > that and also I have a sis-USB VM. So now there is my problem, how > can I forward the phone over USB to my developer VM. So I am able to > debug on the device. > >

Re: [qubes-users] Re: ANN: Leakproof Qubes VPN

2016-10-15 Thread Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)
On 10/14/2016 04:06 PM, epicd...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello, what is the difference between this implementation and just following > the VPN guide on the Qubes website? Both seem to create a proxyVM. > > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/vpn/ > > Is your version more leak proof, if so, how? My version