Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools 3.2.2-3 released

2016-10-27 Thread Drew White
On Thursday, 27 October 2016 03:21:09 UTC+11, Robert Mittendorf  wrote:
> After updating Qubes tool, basically all relavant devices have issues.
> 
> Qubes Video, Xen Interface, Xen PV Storage, Xen PV Network.

There has been an issue with QWT for as long as I can remember.
the Qubes Video driver has always had issues, and even though they have been 
reported, not all of them are easily fixed.

They fixed the multi-screen issue, in a way, not really multi-screen but it's 
one resolution to the issue, even though it produced another issue, it resolved 
one.

Storage and networking are just fine as far as I can tell, no matter the 
hardware. If it's an HVM then it has both, and they work, even the THVm works 
fine.

Maybe you can be more specific?


> Config in registry incomplete or broken (Code 19)
 
That's a Windows 10 error. QWT is not yet built for Win10.

> The repair option of the QWT uninstaller does not solve the issue as well.
> Any idea? Otherwise I think I'm stuck with QWT 3.2.1.2.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools 3.2.2-3 released

2016-10-26 Thread Robert Mittendorf

After updating Qubes tool, basically all relavant devices have issues.

Qubes Video, Xen Interface, Xen PV Storage, Xen PV Network.

Config in registry incomplete or broken (Code 19)

The repair option of the QWT uninstaller does not solve the issue as well.

Any idea? Otherwise I think I'm stuck with QWT 3.2.1.2.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-10-03 Thread Dave Ewart
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Hash: SHA512

On Sunday, 02.10.2016 at 06:10 -0700, Drew White wrote:

> > [...]
> > 
> > You see the difference?  Your follow-up reply was inappropriate.  It
> > didn't actually explain what you wanted, it didn't help them to help
> > you, and it led to this ridiculous thread.
> > 
> > Hope this helps, genuinely.
> 
> My reply made them use their brain to try to find the reason why, or
> else to ASK the reason why IF they couldn't figure it out. Yours just
> provided them information that made them not need to think or
> anything.

I appreciate the positive sentiment of your message, Drew, but this
sentence stood out and is worthy of note.  If you're posting to a
discussion group where you want help, you should make it as *easy as
possible* for someone to answer your question.  It is a *good* thing to
provide information to people so that they "[do] not need to think or
anything"!

You should not demand or expect that people go out of their way to
figure out what you mean, when it is simpler for you to explain it as
part of your enquiry.  Don't make your questions to discussion groups
intentionally unclear, Drew!

In short, always err on the side of "too much information" rather than
too little.

Cheers,

Dave.


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-10-02 Thread Drew White
On Friday, 30 September 2016 18:34:29 UTC+10, Dave Ewart  wrote:
> As I said previously, the version of Windows is not usually discussed
> (since it just depends on which updates have been installed) and you
> would have got a better answer the first time if you'd included - for
> example - "My version number is currently Version 6.1.7601 for my
> Windows 7 Guest" in your original question.  That better question would
> have got you a better answer.
 
That is true, but I find often providing more information just gets bad 
responses from people. sometimes I say one thing and provide the information 
and I get told that they have nothing to do with one another, and yet one is 
related to the other directly. yet I get told otherwise.

As far as version goes, my statement was about version, not edition. Thus when 
I was provided information about edition not version, I had to make them 
understand.



> Serious advice: whether you intend it or not, Drew, a large number of
> your posts come across to many people here as impolite, aggressive &
> demanding.  This is not generally the case with other posters.  The fact
> that many people feel the same about your posts should tell you
> something.

Often, in the past, when I have posted, I added in information saying not to 
take my posts the wrong way. And yet people still did.

Because I've had that problem in the past, but people just don't read, and thus 
they interpret my posts when there is no interpretation to be made. And so they 
misunderstand or take offense. My posts are most often explicitly to the point, 
no beating around the bush.


> For example, here's how your current question could have been asked in a
> better way.
> 
> 
> === THE RIGHT WAY ===
> 
> 
> > > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?
> > >
> > > That's covered here: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
> >
> > Ah, sorry, you misunderstand me: I meant version as in 'Windows 7
> > version 6.1.7601', not the Edition.  Are there any specific
> > requirements relating to that?
> >
> > ...
> 
> 
> Whereas your discussion went like this
> 
> 
> === THE WRONG WAY ===
> 
> 
> > > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?
> > >
> > > That's covered here: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
> >
> > Doesn't even BEGIN to answer the question.
> 
> 
> You see the difference?  Your follow-up reply was inappropriate.  It
> didn't actually explain what you wanted, it didn't help them to help
> you, and it led to this ridiculous thread.
> 
> Hope this helps, genuinely.


My reply made them use their brain to try to find the reason why, or else to 
ASK the reason why IF they couldn't figure it out. Yours just provided them 
information that made them not need to think or anything.

What I wanted was explained in the original question. there was no need for 
explanation of it because the question was "version" not "edition".

I see the fact that it may have been worded the wrong way, but I just get 
straight to the point, and say it as it is without beating around the bush, as 
I said earlier in the post.

My posts are not meant to be taken the wrong way. When there is nothing to be 
interpreted people interpret it and thus causing it to be offensive.

Or else they read it and don't think of it as informative (as per your example 
of my reply), and that they should just query, and not have everyone go off the 
deep end about it.

I had figured that by now everyone had already known about the things I 
normally put into my post to say not to misunderstand.

I will have to put that statement back in to avoid the harassment that I am 
getting again from people, since that is the reason once again.

thank you for bringing it to my attention, I will endeavor to be more careful 
in the future regarding the way I word the replies, and I will beat around the 
bush a little to be more polite rather than stating it as it is.

In this post the statement isn't here, because I have not gone to find it yet 
in pasts posts. thanks again for brining the actual issue to my attention so 
that I can improve myself and work on that.

Sincerely,
Drew.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-30 Thread Achim Patzner
Am 30.09.2016 um 03:20 schrieb Drew White:

> On Thursday, 29 September 2016 19:40:12 UTC+10, Achim Patzner  wrote:
>> No, you -- being a non-paying end-user; I've yet to see any worthwhile
>> contribution from you -- _demanded_ (in a quite untoward manner an
>> explanation from a "developer". Sorry. I guess even if said developer
>> tried explaininig to you why he does not apply for a valid code
>> signature certificate you would continue ranting.
>>
> Well, how am I to make a worthwhile contribution when there are so many bugs

By fixing them if you can or paying someone for fixing them if you
can't. Or politely asking if someone can provide a fix because he deems
the problem important enough or at least well described.

> and I provide details to get them fixed but they are ignored because

Yes. Just as my mother calling me to tell me "I erased the Internet!".
You didn't provide details of a (known) non-problem; you ranted and
demanded.

> everyone causes them to get lost in an array of insults towards me and bad 
> information thrown around confusing my good data in the mix?

Poor you; the whole world is against you and you cannot figure out why
even if the bad world is continuously telling you why and everybody is
ignoring your issues completely. Hint: People get tired of you if you
constantly annoy them.

>> What about remoiving Qubes and install a nice Ubuntu or Mint on your
>> machine and be happy about your life?
>>
> No thanks, I don't use end-user only operating systems.

But that might be much more fitting to your lifestyle, your experience,
your demands and your behavior. And if you want paid support, why not
install Windows 10 and rant at Cortana; she seems getting used to
disgruntled five-year-olds complaining about their parents so I'm sure
she will put up with your demands.

>> None of your posts have ever been worth reading so please forgive the
>> rest of the world not having read most of them.
> Maybe they weren't worth reading because your IQ is too low to understand 
> them?

I guess so. I hope so or I would probably end like Marvin, the depressed
robot having to understand them.

> Or maybe the fact is that you read people attacking me for no reason

*rofl*

Actually I didn't see anyone attacking you up to now. They're just
venting a bit of their frustration about your major contributions to
this list.

> and you take heir side because you don't want to be the odd one out

Even more *rofl* on this. What's next? Calling me gay like the last
secret agent of Moronia that was posting to these lists?

I should really (and will now) follow my own advice.

__
   /|  /|  |  |
   ||__||  |   Please don't   |
  /   O O\__   feed   |
 /  \   the trolls|
/  \ \|
   /   _\ \ -- 
  /|\\ \ ||
 / | | | |\/ ||
/   \|_|_|/   |__||
   /  /  \|| ||
  /   |   | /||  --|   
  |   |   |// |  --|   
   * _|  |_|_|_|  | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ //   |
  /  _ \\ _ //   |/
*  /   \_ /- | - |   | 
  *  ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c 



Achim

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-30 Thread Dave Ewart
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On Thursday, 29.09.2016 at 18:01 -0700, Drew White wrote:

> On Thursday, 29 September 2016 17:41:23 UTC+10, Dave Ewart  wrote:
> > There is no commonly-accepted definition of 'version' with regard to
> > Windows, only "64-bit v 32-bit" and the Edition.
> >
> > If you have some unusual definition of 'version' then you should explain
> > what that definition is.  Shouting at people - expecting them to
> > understand you - won't help.
> 
> By version I mean VERSION.
> Because there are many versions.
> You could have 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04 (as example of version numbers)
> You can even turn on the display of the version number in Windows.
> 
> My version number is currently Version 6.1.7601 for my Windows 7 Guest.
> 
> > You need to *ask a better question* rather than insulting the person
> > answering.
> 
> In future, please know what you are talking about before you try to
> defame someone who asks the correct question.

As I said previously, the version of Windows is not usually discussed
(since it just depends on which updates have been installed) and you
would have got a better answer the first time if you'd included - for
example - "My version number is currently Version 6.1.7601 for my
Windows 7 Guest" in your original question.  That better question would
have got you a better answer.

Serious advice: whether you intend it or not, Drew, a large number of
your posts come across to many people here as impolite, aggressive &
demanding.  This is not generally the case with other posters.  The fact
that many people feel the same about your posts should tell you
something.

For example, here's how your current question could have been asked in a
better way.


=== THE RIGHT WAY ===


> > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?
> >
> > That's covered here: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
>
> Ah, sorry, you misunderstand me: I meant version as in 'Windows 7
> version 6.1.7601', not the Edition.  Are there any specific
> requirements relating to that?
>
> ...


Whereas your discussion went like this


=== THE WRONG WAY ===


> > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?
> >
> > That's covered here: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
>
> Doesn't even BEGIN to answer the question.


You see the difference?  Your follow-up reply was inappropriate.  It
didn't actually explain what you wanted, it didn't help them to help
you, and it led to this ridiculous thread.

Hope this helps, genuinely.

Dave.



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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-29 Thread Drew White
On Thursday, 29 September 2016 19:40:12 UTC+10, Achim Patzner  wrote:
> > On Thursday, 29 September 2016 04:05:41 UTC+10, Achim Patzner  wrote:
> >> Which part of "we don't provide signed drivers so if you want to run
> >> them you have to turn that requirement off" needs a developer to make
> >> you understand it and what kind of LART do you expect said developer to
> >> use for beating some sense into you? It's clear, it's precise and unless
> >> you need a translation into another language there is not much anyone
> >> could do for you. Please keep the developers doing something more
> >> important than correcting your refusal to accept facts.
> > but I wanted a technical explanation
> 
> No, you -- being a non-paying end-user; I've yet to see any worthwhile
> contribution from you -- _demanded_ (in a quite untoward manner an
> explanation from a "developer". Sorry. I guess even if said developer
> tried explaininig to you why he does not apply for a valid code
> signature certificate you would continue ranting.
> 

Well, how am I to make a worthwhile contribution when there are so many bugs 
and I provide details to get them fixed but they are ignored because everyone 
causes them to get lost in an array of insults towards me and bad information 
thrown around confusing my good data in the mix?

> What about remoiving Qubes and install a nice Ubuntu or Mint on your
> machine and be happy about your life?
> 

No thanks, I don't use end-user only operating systems.


> > As I said in a recent post, which may be worth you reading that sentence 
> > that also relates here.
> 
> None of your posts have ever been worth reading so please forgive the
> ret of the world not having read most of them.

Maybe they weren't worth reading because your IQ is too low to understand them?
Or maybe the fact is that you read people attacking me for no reason, and you 
take heir side because you don't want to be the odd one out even though I'm 
right, and taking a stand, and providing good information and asking the right 
questions and being misunderstood, and none but the devs actually understand 
most of the time?

There are a few in the users forum here that do understand and actually try to 
help after actually reading the questions and information. Most people skim 
over it and interpret what isn't meant to be interpreted, and thus come out 
with thoughts and details that are completely the opposite of what I was 
saying/asking.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-29 Thread Drew White
On Thursday, 29 September 2016 15:03:45 UTC+10, entr0py  wrote:

> It gives me no pleasure (well...) to gang up on a guy who obviously doesn't 
> have the slightest notion of what it means to possess even a modicum of 
> social grace. But in the absence of a downvote button, how else do you voice 
> your disapproval of a community member that is as ignorant as he is arrogant 
> and who repeatedly insults fellow users that try to help? 

Well, I did not intentionally insult the person who first answered my questions 
at the start of my response. 
All he did was give me links that I had already read, that are the first things 
I go to before I speak here.

My entire post was directed at devs, so posted towards the devs, but posted 
here in users to allow others with the knowledge to provide an answer as well 
if they had the answer.

 
> [BTW, it's all Marek's fault for having the extraordinary patience to indulge 
> this buffoon with a straight face.]
> 

Marek's one of the very few people that have ever taken the time to actually 
read what I write and give me a solid answer to what I ask.
I have great respect for that man.






> 
> You should have stuck to Edition and just said, "Thanks for the answer", 
> because now you look like a bigger idiot than when you began. A Windows 
> version/build/release is just a collection of installed updates. That means 
> that whatever version you install changes the moment you update it. Did you 
> expect the devs to test every possible combination of Windows updates? Or to 
> test a buggy old release?
>  

IF you had READ what I wrote, you would have seen me say that I did appreciate 
it. Maybe you missed that bit?

Well, you do know what the version is. At least you can tell the difference 
between version and edition. That puts you one step higher than most of the 
other people here.

I do not expect them to have done that, but if they said it needs at least 
version 1.6.7601, then I would have said "ok thanks", or else they could have 
said they need version X of this and Y of that and A of the other... And listed 
that they need specific things for the tools to work correctly.





> 
> Perfectly. Drew, thank you for refining your initial question to make it more 
> "technical". 
> Because now, the answer is... 
> EXACTLY THE SAME as the one Foppe gave you at the outset. 

Nope, that is not the answer, and doesn't answer the question.
If it does and I have misunderstood, then please, explain.



> 
> My bad, here's the technical version coming from an end-user: RTFM. (The 
> answer starts with R- and ends with -PM.) I know it's hard to believe but, 
> #IAmNotADev.
> 

You may not be a dev, but you have the technical knowledge to know more than 
the end-users that don't know enough to answer the question(s)


> Oh, you wanted a specific answer... Well, if you're performing a Gaussian 
> Blur on a 16 megapixel photo of Donald Trump eating a Taco using Photoshop, 
> then you need 3,824,110,293 bytes of RAM and 2 cores. On the other hand, if 
> you're playing Minesweeper while eating a taco yourself, then the requirement 
> changes to 2,015,289,787 bytes of RAM and 1.42 cores.
> 
> And now... in the #DevFetish + #LeaveMarekAlone category:

That doesn't answer my question. That isn't Qubes Windows Tools, that's 
different applications.

Here I was thinking you had brains and you were even starting to gain my 
respect, but now you say this and become so stupid I have to say, you are just 
trolling me, and you have entered into the realm of Jeremy Rand, the person on 
this forum that blocked me because I was right and he was wrong and he keeps 
trying to make me look bad and say bad things just to defame me and troll me. 
Which I was sick of, so I made him block me, so, now, please, do the same thing.






> 
> You're too modest. You make people's heads explode with your mastery of 
> complex subjects - for fun!
No, not at all, it just turns out that way sometimes.


> Just including some highlights so Jeremy doesn't feel like he's missing out.
lol, you provide stuff for the troll?

> And a rhetorical question: What happens if /dev/null overflows?
That's just like "How much food do I have to eat before I am full?"


> [I don't usually sign my posts, but this one...]





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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-29 Thread Achim Patzner
Am 29.09.2016 um 09:41 schrieb Dave Ewart:
> If you have some unusual definition of 'version' then you should explain
> what that definition is.  Shouting at people - expecting them to
> understand you - won't help.

Didn't someone read you some classics when you were a child?

Carrol, Lewis, "Through The Looking-Glass":

'Some people,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking away from her as usual, 'have
no more sense than a baby!'
[...]
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't  till I tell
you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it
means just what I choose it to mean  neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many
different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master, that's all.'

> You need to *ask a better question* rather than insulting the person
> answering.

"All the King's horses and all the King's men..."

Could we agree on not feeding the troll (excuse me, egg) any more? It's
like mud wrestling with a pig; the animal will like it and all you will
ever get is dirty. Treat it like the tree having a dog urinating on its
roots: Grow from it and just wait; the dog will die a lot earlier than
you so the problem will solve itself sooner or later.


Achim


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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-29 Thread Achim Patzner
Am 29.09.2016 um 03:16 schrieb Drew White:

> On Thursday, 29 September 2016 04:05:41 UTC+10, Achim Patzner  wrote:
>> Which part of "we don't provide signed drivers so if you want to run
>> them you have to turn that requirement off" needs a developer to make
>> you understand it and what kind of LART do you expect said developer to
>> use for beating some sense into you? It's clear, it's precise and unless
>> you need a translation into another language there is not much anyone
>> could do for you. Please keep the developers doing something more
>> important than correcting your refusal to accept facts.
> but I wanted a technical explanation

No, you -- being a non-paying end-user; I've yet to see any worthwhile
contribution from you -- _demanded_ (in a quite untoward manner an
explanation from a "developer". Sorry. I guess even if said developer
tried explaininig to you why he does not apply for a valid code
signature certificate you would continue ranting.

What about remoiving Qubes and install a nice Ubuntu or Mint on your
machine and be happy about your life?

> As I said in a recent post, which may be worth you reading that sentence that 
> also relates here.

None of your posts have ever been worth reading so please forgive the
ret of the world not having read most of them.


Achim

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-29 Thread Jeremy Rand
entr0py:
> 
> You're too modest. You make people's heads explode with your mastery of 
> complex subjects - for fun!

Well, my head did kind of explode from reading those highly entertaining
highlights, but I think your explanation only is valid if "mastery" is a
signed variable.

> Just including some highlights so Jeremy doesn't feel like he's missing out.

Much appreciated.  I've spent much of the past week doing boring things
that I'd rather not be doing, so it's certainly good to get some comic
relief.

> And a rhetorical question: What happens if /dev/null overflows?

I raise you another rhetorical question: How many clones of Drew would
have to bang on a typewriter, and for how long, to cause that behavior
to reliably occur?

Cheers,
-Jeremy

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signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-29 Thread Dave Ewart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Wednesday, 28.09.2016 at 17:53 -0700, Drew White wrote:

> > > > > I would like to know from a dev what the requirements are for
> > > > > Qubes Windows Tools (QWT).
> > > > > 
> > > > > All O/S reference are known to be x86_64.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?  Or will
> > > > > they work with all versions of Windows 7?
> > > > covered here: all.
> > > > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
> > > 
> > > Doesn't even BEGIN to answer the question.
> > 
> > It *completely* answers your question.  In the first line: "Only
> > 64-bit Windows 7 (any edition) is supported".  So you need Windows 7
> > 64-bit, but the edition doesn't matter (e.g. Home, Enterprise,
> > whatever).
> 
> I said VERSION, not EDITION.

There is no commonly-accepted definition of 'version' with regard to
Windows, only "64-bit v 32-bit" and the Edition.

If you have some unusual definition of 'version' then you should explain
what that definition is.  Shouting at people - expecting them to
understand you - won't help.

You need to *ask a better question* rather than insulting the person
answering.

(etc.)

Dave.

- -- 
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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread entr0py
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

It gives me no pleasure (well...) to gang up on a guy who obviously doesn't 
have the slightest notion of what it means to possess even a modicum of social 
grace. But in the absence of a downvote button, how else do you voice your 
disapproval of a community member that is as ignorant as he is arrogant and who 
repeatedly insults fellow users that try to help? 



[BTW, it's all Marek's fault for having the extraordinary patience to indulge 
this buffoon with a straight face.]

Drew White:
> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 18:33:25 UTC+10, Dave Ewart  wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 28.09.2016 at 01:06 -0700, Drew White wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan 
>>> wrote:
 On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew 
 White wrote:
> Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?  Or will 
> they work with all versions of Windows 7?
 
 covered here: all. 
 https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
>>> 
>>> Doesn't even BEGIN to answer the question.
>> 
>> It *completely* answers your question.  In the first line: "Only 
>> 64-bit Windows 7 (any edition) is supported".  So you need Windows 
>> 7 64-bit, but the edition doesn't matter (e.g. Home, Enterprise, 
>> whatever).
> 
> I said VERSION, not EDITION.

You should have stuck to Edition and just said, "Thanks for the answer", 
because now you look like a bigger idiot than when you began. A Windows 
version/build/release is just a collection of installed updates. That means 
that whatever version you install changes the moment you update it. Did you 
expect the devs to test every possible combination of Windows updates? Or to 
test a buggy old release?
 

> Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?  Is that 
> because Win7 requires things to be signed?
 
 https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/ "Before
 ...
>>> 
>>> Still doesn't answer that question either.
>>> 
>>> I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of 
>>> WHY, not just an end user reason, but a dev description that is 
>>> technical.
>> 
>> Again, that really *does* answer your question.  Windows 7 requires
>> drivers to be signed by a recognised certificate.  The Qubes Tools
>> drivers are *not* signed by a recognised certificate, so to make
>> them work one needs to toggle the TESTSIGNING flag so that Windows
>> 7 no longer cares about their certificates.
> 
> Okay, it seems you can't understand a simple questions so I will 
> rectify it to be more the way I would have normally asked it before
> I started asking the questions in a way that more people can 
> understand, again, you are not a dev...
> 
> Why do you need testsigning on when you can easily get a certificate 
> for signing your software when people could intercept with unsigned 
> software that will cause harm instead of goo and cause that guest 
> machine to be infected and  mean that qubes wasn't doing things
> right security wise?
> 
> Does that better clarify the question that I'm asking as to the WHY?

Perfectly. Drew, thank you for refining your initial question to make it more 
"technical". 
Because now, the answer is... 
EXACTLY THE SAME as the one Foppe gave you at the outset. 


>>> So please, refrain from answering my questions with details that 
>>> don't answer anything. If the website had the information, I 
>>> would not be asking.
>> 
>> It sounds like the web site *does* include the information, you 
>> failed to find it (or didn't look), someone answered by pointing 
>> you at the right information and you merely insulted them in
>> reply. Glad to see you're still trolling here, Drew... :-/
> 
> If you read my current reply, you will see that it doesn't answer
> the question(s)
> ...
> True, but he wasn't a dev, so I saw no reason to give more information.
> ...
> The question was perfectly stated, I was after a technical WHY, not an 
> end-user WHY.
> ...
> That is precise to an end-user, but I wanted a technical explanation. As I 
> said in a recent post, which may be worth you reading that sentence that also 
> relates here.

My bad, here's the technical version coming from an end-user: RTFM. (The answer 
starts with R- and ends with -PM.) I know it's hard to believe but, #IAmNotADev.


>>> That only tells me what you assign to a Windows Guest.
>>> What it doesn't tell me is what the tools require in seamless mode, 
>>> including but not limited to the Windows Guest and Dom0.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but what I'm missing here is your explanation/indication as to 
>> what you have already tried yourself, and why the information you seek could 
>> not be retrieved by you installing a w7 VM, installing the tools, and 
>> checking ram use in a running VM; and secondly, if you had indeed checked 
>> that out before asking it here, why that information wasn't 
>> useful/sufficiently informative to you.
> 
> That information doesn't tell me enough.
> 

Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread Drew White
On Thursday, 29 September 2016 06:08:12 UTC+10, Jeremy Rand  wrote:
> Achim Patzner:
> > Am 28.09.2016 um 10:06 schrieb Drew White:
> >> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan  wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew White wrote:
>  Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?
>  Is that because Win7 requires things to be signed?
> >>> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/
> >>> "Before proceeding with the installation we need to disable Windows 
> >>> mechanism that allows only signed drivers to be installed, because 
> >>> currently (beta releases) the drivers we provide as part of the Windows 
> >>> Tools are not digitally signed with a publicly recognizable certificate."
> >> Still doesn't answer that question either.
> >>
> >> I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of WHY, not 
> >> just an end user reason, but a dev description that is technical.
> > 
> > Which part of "we don't provide signed drivers so if you want to run
> > them you have to turn that requirement off" needs a developer to make
> > you understand it and what kind of LART do you expect said developer to
> > use for beating some sense into you? It's clear, it's precise and unless
> > you need a translation into another language there is not much anyone
> > could do for you. Please keep the developers doing something more
> > important than correcting your refusal to accept facts.
> > 
> > 
> > Achim
> > 
> 
> It occurs to me that although I've re-routed messages from Drew to
> /dev/null for quite a while (thus saving me from reading that drivel), I
> didn't do so for messages that reply to him.  I think I'm actually okay
> with that oversight, as now I get to enjoy reading 3 different people
> explaining to him why his messages are the type of message that resulted
> in me null-routing him, but I don't have to subject myself to reading
> whatever replies he comes up with.
> 
> (On that note -- kudos to the 3 of you who managed to reply to him,
> explaining in reasonable detail why he's off base, without losing your
> sanity.  Quite impressive.)
> 
> Cheers,
> -Jeremy

Jeremy, I missed your trolling me like this. 
Thanks for showing me you aren't ignoring me and are actually making the time 
to come on here just to troll me again.
Thanks!

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread Drew White
On Thursday, 29 September 2016 04:05:41 UTC+10, Achim Patzner  wrote:
> Am 28.09.2016 um 10:06 schrieb Drew White:
> > On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan  wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew White wrote:
> >>> Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?
> >>> Is that because Win7 requires things to be signed?
> >> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/
> >> "Before proceeding with the installation we need to disable Windows 
> >> mechanism that allows only signed drivers to be installed, because 
> >> currently (beta releases) the drivers we provide as part of the Windows 
> >> Tools are not digitally signed with a publicly recognizable certificate."
> > Still doesn't answer that question either.
> >
> > I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of WHY, not 
> > just an end user reason, but a dev description that is technical.
> 
> Which part of "we don't provide signed drivers so if you want to run
> them you have to turn that requirement off" needs a developer to make
> you understand it and what kind of LART do you expect said developer to
> use for beating some sense into you? It's clear, it's precise and unless
> you need a translation into another language there is not much anyone
> could do for you. Please keep the developers doing something more
> important than correcting your refusal to accept facts.

That is precise to an end-user, but I wanted a technical explanation. As I said 
in a recent post, which may be worth you reading that sentence that also 
relates here.

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread Drew White
On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 18:33:25 UTC+10, Dave Ewart  wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
> 
> On Wednesday, 28.09.2016 at 01:06 -0700, Drew White wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan  wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew White
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi Devs,
> > > > 
> > > > I would like to know from a dev what the requirements are for
> > > > Qubes Windows Tools (QWT).
> > > > 
> > > > All O/S reference are known to be x86_64.
> > > > 
> > > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?  Or will they
> > > > work with all versions of Windows 7?
> > > covered here: all.  https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
> > 
> > Doesn't even BEGIN to answer the question.
> 
> It *completely* answers your question.  In the first line: "Only 64-bit
> Windows 7 (any edition) is supported".  So you need Windows 7 64-bit,
> but the edition doesn't matter (e.g. Home, Enterprise, whatever).

I said VERSION, not EDITION.



> > > > Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?  Is that because
> > > > Win7 requires things to be signed?
> > > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/ "Before proceeding with
> > > the installation we need to disable Windows mechanism that allows
> > > only signed drivers to be installed, because currently (beta
> > > releases) the drivers we provide as part of the Windows Tools are
> > > not digitally signed with a publicly recognizable certificate."
> > 
> > Still doesn't answer that question either.
> > 
> > I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of WHY,
> > not just an end user reason, but a dev description that is technical.
> 
> Again, that really *does* answer your question.  Windows 7 requires
> drivers to be signed by a recognised certificate.  The Qubes Tools
> drivers are *not* signed by a recognised certificate, so to make them
> work one needs to toggle the TESTSIGNING flag so that Windows 7 no
> longer cares about their certificates.
 
Okay, it seems you can't understand a simple questions so I will rectify it to 
be more the way I would have normally asked it before I started asking the 
questions in a way that more people can understand, again, you are not a dev...

Why do you need testsigning on when you can easily get a certificate for 
signing your software when people could intercept with unsigned software that 
will cause harm instead of goo and cause that guest machine to be infected and  
mean that qubes wasn't doing things right security wise?

Does that better clarify the question that I'm asking as to the WHY?

> > [...]
> >
> > So please, refrain from answering my questions with details that don't
> > answer anything. If the website had the information, I would not be
> > asking.
> 
> It sounds like the web site *does* include the information, you failed
> to find it (or didn't look), someone answered by pointing you at the
> right information and you merely insulted them in reply.  Glad to see
> you're still trolling here, Drew... :-/

If you read my current reply, you will see that it doesn't answer the 
question(s)

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread Jeremy Rand
Achim Patzner:
> Am 28.09.2016 um 10:06 schrieb Drew White:
>> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan  wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew White wrote:
 Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?
 Is that because Win7 requires things to be signed?
>>> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/
>>> "Before proceeding with the installation we need to disable Windows 
>>> mechanism that allows only signed drivers to be installed, because 
>>> currently (beta releases) the drivers we provide as part of the Windows 
>>> Tools are not digitally signed with a publicly recognizable certificate."
>> Still doesn't answer that question either.
>>
>> I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of WHY, not 
>> just an end user reason, but a dev description that is technical.
> 
> Which part of "we don't provide signed drivers so if you want to run
> them you have to turn that requirement off" needs a developer to make
> you understand it and what kind of LART do you expect said developer to
> use for beating some sense into you? It's clear, it's precise and unless
> you need a translation into another language there is not much anyone
> could do for you. Please keep the developers doing something more
> important than correcting your refusal to accept facts.
> 
> 
> Achim
> 

It occurs to me that although I've re-routed messages from Drew to
/dev/null for quite a while (thus saving me from reading that drivel), I
didn't do so for messages that reply to him.  I think I'm actually okay
with that oversight, as now I get to enjoy reading 3 different people
explaining to him why his messages are the type of message that resulted
in me null-routing him, but I don't have to subject myself to reading
whatever replies he comes up with.

(On that note -- kudos to the 3 of you who managed to reply to him,
explaining in reasonable detail why he's off base, without losing your
sanity.  Quite impressive.)

Cheers,
-Jeremy

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signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread Achim Patzner
Am 28.09.2016 um 10:06 schrieb Drew White:
> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan  wrote:
>> On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew White wrote:
>>> Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?
>>> Is that because Win7 requires things to be signed?
>> https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/
>> "Before proceeding with the installation we need to disable Windows 
>> mechanism that allows only signed drivers to be installed, because currently 
>> (beta releases) the drivers we provide as part of the Windows Tools are not 
>> digitally signed with a publicly recognizable certificate."
> Still doesn't answer that question either.
>
> I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of WHY, not just 
> an end user reason, but a dev description that is technical.

Which part of "we don't provide signed drivers so if you want to run
them you have to turn that requirement off" needs a developer to make
you understand it and what kind of LART do you expect said developer to
use for beating some sense into you? It's clear, it's precise and unless
you need a translation into another language there is not much anyone
could do for you. Please keep the developers doing something more
important than correcting your refusal to accept facts.


Achim

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Qubes Windows Tools

2016-09-28 Thread Dave Ewart
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On Wednesday, 28.09.2016 at 01:06 -0700, Drew White wrote:

> On Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:47:01 UTC+10, Foppe de Haan  wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:20:29 AM UTC+2, Drew White
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Devs,
> > > 
> > > I would like to know from a dev what the requirements are for
> > > Qubes Windows Tools (QWT).
> > > 
> > > All O/S reference are known to be x86_64.
> > > 
> > > Does QWT require any specific version of Windows 7?  Or will they
> > > work with all versions of Windows 7?
> > covered here: all.  https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-tools-3/
> 
> Doesn't even BEGIN to answer the question.

It *completely* answers your question.  In the first line: "Only 64-bit
Windows 7 (any edition) is supported".  So you need Windows 7 64-bit,
but the edition doesn't matter (e.g. Home, Enterprise, whatever).

> > > Why does QWT require TESTSIGNING to be turned on?  Is that because
> > > Win7 requires things to be signed?
> > https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/windows-appvms/ "Before proceeding with
> > the installation we need to disable Windows mechanism that allows
> > only signed drivers to be installed, because currently (beta
> > releases) the drivers we provide as part of the Windows Tools are
> > not digitally signed with a publicly recognizable certificate."
> 
> Still doesn't answer that question either.
> 
> I said "hi devs" because I needed someone with the knowledge of WHY,
> not just an end user reason, but a dev description that is technical.

Again, that really *does* answer your question.  Windows 7 requires
drivers to be signed by a recognised certificate.  The Qubes Tools
drivers are *not* signed by a recognised certificate, so to make them
work one needs to toggle the TESTSIGNING flag so that Windows 7 no
longer cares about their certificates.

> [...]
>
> So please, refrain from answering my questions with details that don't
> answer anything. If the website had the information, I would not be
> asking.

It sounds like the web site *does* include the information, you failed
to find it (or didn't look), someone answered by pointing you at the
right information and you merely insulted them in reply.  Glad to see
you're still trolling here, Drew... :-/

Dave.

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