[RBW] Re: Handlebar Suggestions for MTB Build?

[Robert Liebermann]

Remember, you can also use those bars the other way, with the open end 
forward - the stem mount is about in the center, so no matter which way you 
turn them there's about the same for and aft. 

>
> Robert--That trekking bar is really cool. I don't think I'd like to have 
> to reach for the brakes/shifters past the end of the stem, though. I think 
> I want some sweep.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: How do you glue wire (from a light) to a rack?

[John Stowe]

I agree that somervillebikes' work is the gold standard when it comes to 
wiring. Lots of "textbook" photos on his Flickr 
photostream: https://flic.kr/ps/7De6c

If you don't feel like messing with glue: I went with 8 mil surface guard 
tape ("helicopter tape" or "racers tape"). It's thick enough to provide 
some surface protection (what it's designed for), and clear so it's pretty 
discreet. I have used it to run wiring on multiple bikes. At more than a 
foot or two away, the tape is barely noticeable, all you see is the wire. 
It's also forgiving in terms of changing your setup or realigning the wire. 
You can pull it right back off without damaging paint.

-John



On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 12:40:13 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> Thanks Bill. 
>
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016, Bill Lindsay  
> wrote:
>
>> Anton at VeloLumino is the best source of guidance and info.  The thing 
>> to do is glue short sections of aluminum tubing which comes in very 
>> accurate IDs so it can really fit perfectly.  The glue is silicone, like 
>> modest household Hogar. It's clear, waterproof yes easy to remove when you 
>> need to remove it. Anton has tons of photos. His Flickr handle is 
>> sommervilebikes or something like that.
>>
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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[stonehog]

Here are my thoughts on low trail vs. mid (riv) trail from a few months 
back: 

https://stonehog.com/2016/01/06/trail-riding/

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:24:31 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently 
> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts 
> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole 
> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be 
> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying 
> loads up front.
>
> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common. 
>
> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame, 
> carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What 
> did you think of each?
>
>
> Reed
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Kieran J]

I'm also seriously considering it when "Deposit Day" rolls around. The 
recent Size L pics Grant sent around look awesome!!
We *need* this bike to tow our 75lb Lab down to the lake for picnics ..

KJ


On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:08:01 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with 
> GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too 
> many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means 
> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly 
> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more 
> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv 
> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion 
> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense. 
>  There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, 
> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and 
> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a 
> practical, fun tandem.
>
> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared 
> to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which 
> are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake 
> them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta 
> loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes 
> away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the 
> electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>
> Michael
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Tandem

[cyclotourist]

Until he buys his own...

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 6:44 PM, James Warren 
wrote:

> Who says you'll be invited on the rides? :-)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 6:40 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> And proportionately resistant to riding a tandem with his father.
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 6:08 PM, James Warren 
> wrote:
>
>> Jake will get taller.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 4:24 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying really hard to justify this! Our current tandem is set up w/
>> Albas, B67/68 saddles, and 700X38C Little Big Bens. It's very Riv-approved.
>> But I LOVE the idea of getting a tandem that can fit 650X60B tires on it!
>> The thing is, we ride our tandem maybe four times a year, so the cost/mile
>> is pretty high on getting a fancy new one.
>> But yeah, really thinking about it!
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Michael Hechmer 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter
>>> with GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still
>>> too many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means
>>> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly
>>> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more
>>> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv
>>> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion
>>> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense.
>>> There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky,
>>> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and
>>> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a
>>> practical, fun tandem.
>>>
>>> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering
>>> hot day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who
>>> appeared to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent,
>>> which are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would
>>> overtake them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I
>>> just gotta loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting
>>> our bikes away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw
>>> the electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Tandem

[James Warren]

Who says you'll be invited on the rides? :-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 6:40 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
> 
> And proportionately resistant to riding a tandem with his father.
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 6:08 PM, James Warren  
>> wrote:
>> Jake will get taller.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 4:24 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm trying really hard to justify this! Our current tandem is set up w/ 
>>> Albas, B67/68 saddles, and 700X38C Little Big Bens. It's very Riv-approved. 
>>> But I LOVE the idea of getting a tandem that can fit 650X60B tires on it! 
>>> The thing is, we ride our tandem maybe four times a year, so the cost/mile 
>>> is pretty high on getting a fancy new one. 
>>> But yeah, really thinking about it!
>>> 
 On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Michael Hechmer  
 wrote:
 A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with 
 GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too 
 many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means 
 faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly 
 see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more 
 comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv 
 philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion 
 both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense. 
  There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, 
 and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and 
 bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a 
 practical, fun tandem.
 
 As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
 day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared 
 to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which 
 are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake 
 them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just 
 gotta loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our 
 bikes away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw 
 the electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
 
 Michael
 -- 
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 "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>> 
>>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>> 
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> -- 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
> 
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
> 
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Tandem

[cyclotourist]

And proportionately resistant to riding a tandem with his father.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 6:08 PM, James Warren 
wrote:

> Jake will get taller.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 4:24 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
> I'm trying really hard to justify this! Our current tandem is set up w/
> Albas, B67/68 saddles, and 700X38C Little Big Bens. It's very Riv-approved.
> But I LOVE the idea of getting a tandem that can fit 650X60B tires on it!
> The thing is, we ride our tandem maybe four times a year, so the cost/mile
> is pretty high on getting a fancy new one.
> But yeah, really thinking about it!
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Michael Hechmer 
> wrote:
>
>> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with
>> GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too
>> many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means
>> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly
>> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more
>> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv
>> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion
>> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense.
>> There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky,
>> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and
>> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a
>> practical, fun tandem.
>>
>> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot
>> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared
>> to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which
>> are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake
>> them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta
>> loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes
>> away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the
>> electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
> --
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-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Logic Cranksey SOLD

[Eric Norris]

On its way to a new bike.

–Eric N

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Tandem

[James Warren]

Jake will get taller.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 4:24 PM, cyclotourist  wrote:
> 
> I'm trying really hard to justify this! Our current tandem is set up w/ 
> Albas, B67/68 saddles, and 700X38C Little Big Bens. It's very Riv-approved. 
> But I LOVE the idea of getting a tandem that can fit 650X60B tires on it! The 
> thing is, we ride our tandem maybe four times a year, so the cost/mile is 
> pretty high on getting a fancy new one. 
> But yeah, really thinking about it!
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:
>> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with GP 
>> and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too many 
>> tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means faster.   
>> We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly see that 
>> they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more comfortable ride, so 
>> I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv philosophy to them.  Now 
>> the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion both of whom seem inclined 
>> to push the latest invention over common sense.  There are good custom 
>> builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, and no shortage of 
>> custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and bamboo bikes with 
>> electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a practical, fun tandem.
>> 
>> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
>> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared to 
>> be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which are 
>> notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake them on 
>> the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta loose 30 
>> lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes away all 
>> four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the electric motor 
>> on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>> 
>> Michael
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
> 
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
> 
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

[Frank Brose]

I was happy with a flip but when it died I decided to try an iphone. Should 
have just hunted down another flip.

>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Ritchey Logic Crankset

[jeffrey kane]

Does that mean when you wrote $100.00 you really mean, like, $65.00?

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 5:04:25 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Yes. I was writing in Celsius.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.campyonly.com
> campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
>
> On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:03 PM, Bill Lindsay  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> When Eric says 100bcd he means 110mm BCD
>
> 
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Yes 100bcd
>>
>> No … no mounts for a third ring. Double only.
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I also own a medium Clementine. How did you make the determination that the 
chain stays are unnecessarily long? While I do realize that there is some 
point where long becomes too long, I would have no clue as to where to 
begin to make such a definitive assessment about the Clementine cs length. 
In fact, since the Clementine has a distinct ride feel that sets it apart 
from my other bicycles, and one of its distinct features is long chain 
stays, I give that feature at least some credit for its Clementine-ness. 
Would I notice if it were one centimeter longer, or shorter? Who knows. But 
I bought the bike in part because the designer said "trust me" Further 
reading at the link I provided above gives reasons that the designer has 
moved to extra long stays, and those reasons line up pretty well with my 
ride impressions.

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 2:54:05 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:
>
> I will say that my medium Clementine is a gangly beast, I sized up in the 
> Riv. Tradition, but it's size is one of the things I dig about it!
> That said, the chain stays are unnecessarily long. I can't even imagine if 
> I'd have bought a large! :-0

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Tandem

[cyclotourist]

I'm trying really hard to justify this! Our current tandem is set up w/
Albas, B67/68 saddles, and 700X38C Little Big Bens. It's very Riv-approved.
But I LOVE the idea of getting a tandem that can fit 650X60B tires on it!
The thing is, we ride our tandem maybe four times a year, so the cost/mile
is pretty high on getting a fancy new one.
But yeah, really thinking about it!

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with
> GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too
> many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means
> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly
> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more
> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv
> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion
> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense.
> There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky,
> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and
> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a
> practical, fun tandem.
>
> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot
> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared
> to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which
> are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake
> them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta
> loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes
> away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the
> electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>
> Michael
>
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Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Rivendell Tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with 
GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too 
many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means 
faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly 
see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more 
comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv 
philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion 
both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense. 
 There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, 
and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and 
bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a 
practical, fun tandem.

As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared 
to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which 
are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake 
them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta 
loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes 
away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the 
electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!

Michael

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Re: [RBW] Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[René Sterental]

Reed, I had a custom fork made for my Hunqapillar. That's how I converted
it to low trail.

René

On Thursday, June 16, 2016, Reed Kennedy  wrote:

> Hey René, are you sure about the 40mm trail on the Hunqapillar? This image
> on Riv's site:
> http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/WFHunq62.jpg
> (From the Hunq page: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hunqapillar.htm )
> Seems to indicate a massive-sounding 67.3mm trail. Or is that talking
> about some other sort of trail, or measuring it differently?
>
> I'd assumed that my Hunqapillar borders on being quite-high-trail. But if
> it really is 40mm and the others we've been talking about are but 1cm less,
> well, that doesn't seem like so much...
>
> Would you mind letting me know where you found the 40mm number for the
> Hunq?
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Garth,
>>
>> After my extensive research and e-mail exchanges with Jan, plus my
>> experience with my Atlantis & Hunqapillar, for upright riding, the low
>> trail target should be 40mm. The Rando bikes depicted usually have around
>> 29mm of trail, meant for more forward positioning/fast riding with lower
>> handlebars.
>>
>> The Atlantis/Hunqapillar have 40mm of trail and ride very well loaded and
>> unloaded; riding them loaded is amazingly nice.
>>
>> For my custom, I requested 35mm of trail to have a bit more of the "pure
>> low trail" characteristics and also because i'm now riding with my bars
>> almost level with my saddle.
>>
>> Still, if in doubt, 40mm seems to be the magical most versatile low trail
>> number to go for. And all caveats about getting used to what you ride apply.
>>
>> Also, the difference in handling between 30 and 40mm of trail is much
>> less than the difference between 40 and 55, according to Jan's articles.
>>
>> René
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Garth > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>   While I see lots about low trail bikes with drop bars , I have not
>>> heard/seen much about riding on low trail bikes with long sloping top
>>> tubes(6+ degrees) and high bars(at least above the saddle height).
>>> Basically a much higher center of gravity than a drop bar bike.  A recent
>>> blug post GP mentioned something about this not being so desirable but did
>>> not elaborate.
>>>
>>>So basically I'm wondering how a Bombadil or Hunq would be with Alba
>>> type bars at least couple inches above the saddle would be ?
>>>
>>> I've considered another Bombadil or even a Hunq type frame but I need
>>> more front foot-tire/fender clearance than either stock bike offers in
>>> 60+cm. frames.  I could do this by either going to a low trail design
>>> and/or 650b wheels but I have no idea how it would ride.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

[Steve Palincsar]

I spent months as a kid learning to light matches off my thumb nail.  
Serious real-world consequences & negative reinforcement if you got it 
wrong, too...


On 06/16/2016 05:46 PM, BenG wrote:

Steve, I love that image! My grandpa used to strike his match on his bald 
scalp, which obviously impressed me. The 19th century created impressive people.



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Re: [RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

[BenG]

Steve, I love that image! My grandpa used to strike his match on his bald 
scalp, which obviously impressed me. The 19th century created impressive people.

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Re: [RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/16/2016 05:24 PM, BenG wrote:

Samsung S7 response, recently upgraded from Motorola Atrix. Love the photo 
resolution improvement, helpful in my factory maintenance responsibilities, 
although file size creates issues. My wife has an as-new Razor flip phone, 
already a retro piece admired by 20-somethings wherever she flips it.


A gesture every bit as cool as flipping open and lighting a Zippo, or 
lighting a strike-anywhere match with your thumbnail...


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[RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

[BenG]

Samsung S7 response, recently upgraded from Motorola Atrix. Love the photo 
resolution improvement, helpful in my factory maintenance responsibilities, 
although file size creates issues. My wife has an as-new Razor flip phone, 
already a retro piece admired by 20-somethings wherever she flips it. Which she 
does with a knowing flair, fully aware of the  lustful stare.  Like she flaunts 
her Betty Foy. Go girl.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Tim Gavin]

Damnit, you're right.  1 1/8 only, which wouldn't fit in my Riv frame.

Evan Baird frequents this list and the iBOB list, and he floated a question
to gauge interest on other versions, like with 1" steerers and/or
cantilever posts for 650b cantilever wheels.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Jeremy Tavan  wrote:

> If only the Champs Elysees forks came in 1" threaded steerer versions...
>
> /Jeremy
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:48:55 PM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> Yes, a replacement fork seems like an easy way to try low trail.  There
>> are several framebuilders who will make you a low trail custom fork; Jeff
>> Lyon seems to be a popular choice.
>>
>> Soma also sells a couple low trail forks, named "Champs Elysees"
>>
>> Sidepull version, for 650b with long reach brakes:
>> http://store.somafab.com/chellowtrrof.html
>>
>> Cantilever version, for 700c (unsure of clearance, but it looks generous)
>> http://store.somafab.com/sochelfoca.html
>>
>> I'm considering buying the sidepull Champs Elysees to try on my Riv
>> Road/650b.  I really like the rando bag I have on it but would prefer less
>> wheel flop.  Some eyelets on the front of the dropouts and mid-fork eyelets
>> would be nice as well, since I'm using my Riv as a tourer.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Reed Kennedy  wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, thanks David! I'd missed that detail. What an interesting way to try
>>> lower trail. I'm going to consider giving that a go...
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Reed
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Ritchey Logic Crankset

[Eric Norris]

Yes. I was writing in Celsius.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:03 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> When Eric says 100bcd he means 110mm BCD
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
> Yes 100bcd
> 
> No … no mounts for a third ring. Double only.
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Ritchey Logic Crankset

[Bill Lindsay]

When Eric says 100bcd he means 110mm BCD



On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:55:27 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Yes 100bcd
>
> No … no mounts for a third ring. Double only.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Jeremy Tavan]

If only the Champs Elysees forks came in 1" threaded steerer versions...

/Jeremy

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:48:55 PM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Yes, a replacement fork seems like an easy way to try low trail.  There 
> are several framebuilders who will make you a low trail custom fork; Jeff 
> Lyon seems to be a popular choice.
>
> Soma also sells a couple low trail forks, named "Champs Elysees"
>
> Sidepull version, for 650b with long reach brakes:
> http://store.somafab.com/chellowtrrof.html
>
> Cantilever version, for 700c (unsure of clearance, but it looks generous)
> http://store.somafab.com/sochelfoca.html
>
> I'm considering buying the sidepull Champs Elysees to try on my Riv 
> Road/650b.  I really like the rando bag I have on it but would prefer less 
> wheel flop.  Some eyelets on the front of the dropouts and mid-fork eyelets 
> would be nice as well, since I'm using my Riv as a tourer.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Reed Kennedy  > wrote:
>
>> Ah, thanks David! I'd missed that detail. What an interesting way to try 
>> lower trail. I'm going to consider giving that a go...
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed
>>
>>

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[RBW] Velo Lumino summer vacation hiatus

[Lungimsam]

Does Tom have a wife who frequents bikeforum and who had her Mercian stolen?

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Ritchey Logic Crankset

[Eric Norris]

Yes 100bcd

No … no mounts for a third ring. Double only.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 1:53 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> So, it's the 110bcd model?  And it's strictly a double, with no 74mm bcd 
> holes for a third ring?
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
> Used (or course), but in good condition. 172.5mm arms, 46/34 rings. Includes 
> mounting bolts, but does not include pedals.
> 
> $100 shipped in the CONUS (way lower than prices for similar cranksets on 
> eBay).
> 
> 
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.campyonly.com 
> campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
> 
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[RBW] Re: FS: Ritchey Logic Crankset

[Bill Lindsay]

So, it's the 110bcd model?  And it's strictly a double, with no 74mm bcd 
holes for a third ring?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:49:16 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Used (or course), but in good condition. 172.5mm arms, 46/34 rings. 
> Includes mounting bolts, but does not include pedals.
>
> $100 shipped in the CONUS (way lower than prices for similar cranksets on 
> eBay).
>
>
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> www.campyonly.com
> campyonlyguy.blogspot.com 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: VO fenders vs. Honjo fenders?

[Lungimsam]

I dont think they make hammered fenders either.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Tim Gavin]

Yes, a replacement fork seems like an easy way to try low trail.  There are
several framebuilders who will make you a low trail custom fork; Jeff Lyon
seems to be a popular choice.

Soma also sells a couple low trail forks, named "Champs Elysees"

Sidepull version, for 650b with long reach brakes:
http://store.somafab.com/chellowtrrof.html

Cantilever version, for 700c (unsure of clearance, but it looks generous)
http://store.somafab.com/sochelfoca.html

I'm considering buying the sidepull Champs Elysees to try on my Riv
Road/650b.  I really like the rando bag I have on it but would prefer less
wheel flop.  Some eyelets on the front of the dropouts and mid-fork eyelets
would be nice as well, since I'm using my Riv as a tourer.

Cheers,
Tim


On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Reed Kennedy  wrote:

> Ah, thanks David! I'd missed that detail. What an interesting way to try
> lower trail. I'm going to consider giving that a go...
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

Ah, thanks David! I'd missed that detail. What an interesting way to try
lower trail. I'm going to consider giving that a go...


Best,
Reed

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 12:37 PM, David Banzer  wrote:

> I believe Rene had custom forks built with higher rake than the Riv stock
> fork, yielding lower trail.
> David
> Chicago
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:17:13 PM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Hey René, are you sure about the 40mm trail on the Hunqapillar? This
>> image on Riv's site:
>> http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/WFHunq62.jpg
>> (From the Hunq page: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hunqapillar.htm )
>> Seems to indicate a massive-sounding 67.3mm trail. Or is that talking
>> about some other sort of trail, or measuring it differently?
>>
>> I'd assumed that my Hunqapillar borders on being quite-high-trail. But if
>> it really is 40mm and the others we've been talking about are but 1cm less,
>> well, that doesn't seem like so much...
>>
>> Would you mind letting me know where you found the 40mm number for the
>> Hunq?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, René Sterental 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Garth,
>>>
>>> After my extensive research and e-mail exchanges with Jan, plus my
>>> experience with my Atlantis & Hunqapillar, for upright riding, the low
>>> trail target should be 40mm. The Rando bikes depicted usually have around
>>> 29mm of trail, meant for more forward positioning/fast riding with lower
>>> handlebars.
>>>
>>> The Atlantis/Hunqapillar have 40mm of trail and ride very well loaded
>>> and unloaded; riding them loaded is amazingly nice.
>>>
>>> For my custom, I requested 35mm of trail to have a bit more of the "pure
>>> low trail" characteristics and also because i'm now riding with my bars
>>> almost level with my saddle.
>>>
>>> Still, if in doubt, 40mm seems to be the magical most versatile low
>>> trail number to go for. And all caveats about getting used to what you ride
>>> apply.
>>>
>>> Also, the difference in handling between 30 and 40mm of trail is much
>>> less than the difference between 40 and 55, according to Jan's articles.
>>>
>>> René
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Garth  wrote:
>>>

   While I see lots about low trail bikes with drop bars , I have not
 heard/seen much about riding on low trail bikes with long sloping top
 tubes(6+ degrees) and high bars(at least above the saddle height).
 Basically a much higher center of gravity than a drop bar bike.  A recent
 blug post GP mentioned something about this not being so desirable but did
 not elaborate.

So basically I'm wondering how a Bombadil or Hunq would be with Alba
 type bars at least couple inches above the saddle would be ?

 I've considered another Bombadil or even a Hunq type frame but I need
 more front foot-tire/fender clearance than either stock bike offers in
 60+cm. frames.  I could do this by either going to a low trail design
 and/or 650b wheels but I have no idea how it would ride.

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>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[dougP]

Reed:

I have a lower trail fork on my Atlantis.  The stock one is 65 mm.  The 
custom is 40 mm.  While the difference is noticeable, it is subtle and not 
huge.  It was exactly what I was looking for, in fact.  Like others, I 
prefer front loading.  

Chris makes a valid point.  The low trail is part of the Rambler design, 
whereas my approach is a modification.  "Designed in" is usually preferable 
to "tacked on".  Since a bike's designer must take into account all the 
parameters of tubing dia., wall thickness, angles, etc., a complete 
approach is optimal.  OTH, simply changing the fork on my Atlantis has 
improved it for my purposes.  

dougP

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 11:21:15 AM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Thanks everyone for the extremely educational thoughts, comments, and 
> experiences that have been shared here! I'm somewhat abashed to neglected 
> the search feature and to have started another round of what sounds like a 
> well discussed thread, but I've just loved reading what everyone was kind 
> enough to write. What great information!
>
> It does sound like there is something to the whole low trail thing. I'm 
> going to try to find one to take for a ride see how they feel to me in 
> person. N+1 bikes, as always!
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Pondero  > wrote:
>
>> Reed, I currently have two Rivs (Hilsen and QB) and an Ocean Air Cycles 
>> Rambler.  I love them all.  To me the differences are subtle in the sense 
>> that they all ride like bicycles, but the differences are significant when 
>> it comes to how they handle/feel under different riding conditions.  For 
>> example, I love the sensations of my Rivs on a descent, and I appreciate 
>> how front loads have almost no impact on the handling of my Rambler.  I 
>> tried front loads on my Rivs but it felt to me like the wheel flop was 
>> amplified and took away from the delightful feel of the steering when rear 
>> loaded.  So I decided I wanted to try a low trail design frameset.  The 
>> Rambler handles front loads wonderfully, and I have come to enjoy the 
>> convenience of having things "right there".  As a small, light rider, I 
>> also enjoy the livelier/more flexible standard diameter tubing.  Lately, 
>> and for how I like to use a bicycle, my Rambler has been my ace.  But I 
>> could easily be happy with any one of my bikes if forced to own only one.
>>
>> Chris Johnson
>> Sanger, Texas
>>
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>>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Acorn and Treetop bags

[Steven Butcher]

Price bump.  I've had a couple of inquiries but no buyers.  I'm going to 
drop the price for both bags plus straps to $135.00 shipped CONUS.  

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 8:42:48 PM UTC-5, Steven Butcher wrote:
>
>
> 
> In an attempt to release into the wild bags I'm not using, I'm offering 
> for sale one Acorn Medium Saddlebag, one Treetop Mini Rando front bag, and 
> two Acorn 10.25 inch lashing straps.  Both bags are Ranger Tan waxed canvas 
> and are in Like New condition.  The leather on the bags does not match 
> exactly but are close.  I'm asking $150.00 for the pair shipped CONUS with 
> payment via Paypal family and friends.  Please PM me if you've any 
> questions.  Thanks for looking.  Steve
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[David Banzer]

I believe Rene had custom forks built with higher rake than the Riv stock 
fork, yielding lower trail.
David
Chicago

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 1:17:13 PM UTC-5, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Hey René, are you sure about the 40mm trail on the Hunqapillar? This image 
> on Riv's site:
> http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/WFHunq62.jpg
> (From the Hunq page: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hunqapillar.htm )
> Seems to indicate a massive-sounding 67.3mm trail. Or is that talking 
> about some other sort of trail, or measuring it differently?
>
> I'd assumed that my Hunqapillar borders on being quite-high-trail. But if 
> it really is 40mm and the others we've been talking about are but 1cm less, 
> well, that doesn't seem like so much...
>
> Would you mind letting me know where you found the 40mm number for the 
> Hunq?
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
>> Hi Garth,
>>
>> After my extensive research and e-mail exchanges with Jan, plus my 
>> experience with my Atlantis & Hunqapillar, for upright riding, the low 
>> trail target should be 40mm. The Rando bikes depicted usually have around 
>> 29mm of trail, meant for more forward positioning/fast riding with lower 
>> handlebars.
>>
>> The Atlantis/Hunqapillar have 40mm of trail and ride very well loaded and 
>> unloaded; riding them loaded is amazingly nice.
>>
>> For my custom, I requested 35mm of trail to have a bit more of the "pure 
>> low trail" characteristics and also because i'm now riding with my bars 
>> almost level with my saddle.
>>
>> Still, if in doubt, 40mm seems to be the magical most versatile low trail 
>> number to go for. And all caveats about getting used to what you ride apply.
>>
>> Also, the difference in handling between 30 and 40mm of trail is much 
>> less than the difference between 40 and 55, according to Jan's articles.
>>
>> René 
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Garth  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>   While I see lots about low trail bikes with drop bars , I have not 
>>> heard/seen much about riding on low trail bikes with long sloping top 
>>> tubes(6+ degrees) and high bars(at least above the saddle height).  
>>> Basically a much higher center of gravity than a drop bar bike.  A recent 
>>> blug post GP mentioned something about this not being so desirable but did 
>>> not elaborate.  
>>>
>>>So basically I'm wondering how a Bombadil or Hunq would be with Alba 
>>> type bars at least couple inches above the saddle would be ?  
>>>
>>> I've considered another Bombadil or even a Hunq type frame but I need 
>>> more front foot-tire/fender clearance than either stock bike offers in 
>>> 60+cm. frames.  I could do this by either going to a low trail design 
>>> and/or 650b wheels but I have no idea how it would ride. 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>>> .
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>>>
>>
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>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS Nitto Big Rear Rack and Sugino XD2 Crankset

[Bill Lindsay]

XD2 crankset is SOLD.  Nitto Big Rear Rack is still available for $145 
shipped

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 5:19:59 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Here is another update:  We reserved the right to get smarter, and we got 
> smarter.  The previous claimer of my Big Rear Rack has decided it won't fit 
> on his bike.  It is available again on the open market.  
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 11:57:29 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Update.  The Nitto Big Rear rack is claimed and paid-for, pending a 
>> couple measurements.  The 170mm Sugino XD2 crankset or crank arms are still 
>> available.
>>
>> $105 shipped with 48/36/24 rings.  $70 shipped with no rings or chainring 
>> bolts.  
>>
>> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:45:44 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Bump with an update. I've eyeballed a small project that could put the 
>>> stock chainrings to use, so now I will also consider selling this set of 
>>> Sugino XD2 170mm crank arms with no rings or bolts for $70 shipped. 
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: VO fenders vs. Honjo fenders?

[Anton Tutter]

Berthoud doesn't make aluminum fenders, only stainless steel. So they're 
heavier.

Anton


On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 2:39:38 PM UTC-4, Andrew Patteson wrote:
>
> If I may ask:  then why not just get the Berthoud fenders instead?  Are 
> they inferior in some way?
>
> Thanks,
> Andrew in SLC
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:33:46 AM UTC-6, Anton Tutter wrote:
>>
>>  the Berthoud stays are superior for the reasons Brian mentioned. 
>> 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:34:14 AM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>> I say buy the VO fenders but use the money saved to buy the Berthoud  
>>> mounting stays from Ben's cycle. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[masmojo]

I will say that my medium Clementine is a gangly beast, I sized up in the Riv. 
Tradition, but it's size is one of the things I dig about it!
That said, the chain stays are unnecessarily long. I can't even imagine if I'd 
have bought a large! :-0

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[RBW] Re: VO fenders vs. Honjo fenders?

[Andrew Patteson]

If I may ask:  then why not just get the Berthoud fenders instead?  Are 
they inferior in some way?

Thanks,
Andrew in SLC

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:33:46 AM UTC-6, Anton Tutter wrote:
>
>  the Berthoud stays are superior for the reasons Brian mentioned. 
> 
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:34:14 AM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>> I say buy the VO fenders but use the money saved to buy the Berthoud  
>> mounting stays from Ben's cycle. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

Thanks everyone for the extremely educational thoughts, comments, and
experiences that have been shared here! I'm somewhat abashed to neglected
the search feature and to have started another round of what sounds like a
well discussed thread, but I've just loved reading what everyone was kind
enough to write. What great information!

It does sound like there is something to the whole low trail thing. I'm
going to try to find one to take for a ride see how they feel to me in
person. N+1 bikes, as always!


Best,
Reed

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Pondero  wrote:

> Reed, I currently have two Rivs (Hilsen and QB) and an Ocean Air Cycles
> Rambler.  I love them all.  To me the differences are subtle in the sense
> that they all ride like bicycles, but the differences are significant when
> it comes to how they handle/feel under different riding conditions.  For
> example, I love the sensations of my Rivs on a descent, and I appreciate
> how front loads have almost no impact on the handling of my Rambler.  I
> tried front loads on my Rivs but it felt to me like the wheel flop was
> amplified and took away from the delightful feel of the steering when rear
> loaded.  So I decided I wanted to try a low trail design frameset.  The
> Rambler handles front loads wonderfully, and I have come to enjoy the
> convenience of having things "right there".  As a small, light rider, I
> also enjoy the livelier/more flexible standard diameter tubing.  Lately,
> and for how I like to use a bicycle, my Rambler has been my ace.  But I
> could easily be happy with any one of my bikes if forced to own only one.
>
> Chris Johnson
> Sanger, Texas
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Reed Kennedy]

Hey René, are you sure about the 40mm trail on the Hunqapillar? This image
on Riv's site:
http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/WFHunq62.jpg
(From the Hunq page: http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hunqapillar.htm )
Seems to indicate a massive-sounding 67.3mm trail. Or is that talking about
some other sort of trail, or measuring it differently?

I'd assumed that my Hunqapillar borders on being quite-high-trail. But if
it really is 40mm and the others we've been talking about are but 1cm less,
well, that doesn't seem like so much...

Would you mind letting me know where you found the 40mm number for the Hunq?


Best,
Reed

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 2:07 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Hi Garth,
>
> After my extensive research and e-mail exchanges with Jan, plus my
> experience with my Atlantis & Hunqapillar, for upright riding, the low
> trail target should be 40mm. The Rando bikes depicted usually have around
> 29mm of trail, meant for more forward positioning/fast riding with lower
> handlebars.
>
> The Atlantis/Hunqapillar have 40mm of trail and ride very well loaded and
> unloaded; riding them loaded is amazingly nice.
>
> For my custom, I requested 35mm of trail to have a bit more of the "pure
> low trail" characteristics and also because i'm now riding with my bars
> almost level with my saddle.
>
> Still, if in doubt, 40mm seems to be the magical most versatile low trail
> number to go for. And all caveats about getting used to what you ride apply.
>
> Also, the difference in handling between 30 and 40mm of trail is much less
> than the difference between 40 and 55, according to Jan's articles.
>
> René
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:29 AM, Garth  wrote:
>
>>
>>   While I see lots about low trail bikes with drop bars , I have not
>> heard/seen much about riding on low trail bikes with long sloping top
>> tubes(6+ degrees) and high bars(at least above the saddle height).
>> Basically a much higher center of gravity than a drop bar bike.  A recent
>> blug post GP mentioned something about this not being so desirable but did
>> not elaborate.
>>
>>So basically I'm wondering how a Bombadil or Hunq would be with Alba
>> type bars at least couple inches above the saddle would be ?
>>
>> I've considered another Bombadil or even a Hunq type frame but I need
>> more front foot-tire/fender clearance than either stock bike offers in
>> 60+cm. frames.  I could do this by either going to a low trail design
>> and/or 650b wheels but I have no idea how it would ride.
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
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[RBW] Velo Lumino summer vacation hiatus

[Anton Tutter]

First I'd like to thank the online groups (Bob, RBW, 650B, etc) for their 
enthusiastic support of Velo Lumino over the past year that we've been in 
operation. Velo Lumino is a small "craft" operation, designing and 
fabricating components specifically for bicycle lighting and lighting 
integration, as well as taking on custom lighting installations. Velo 
Lumino consists of myself and Tom Matchak, also a member of these lists. I 
operate all aspects of the web store, inventory and shipping.  As such, 
when I take a vacation, Velo Lumino needs to take one too. Velo Lumino will 
not be shipping orders between today and July 4th. Shipping will resume 
July 5th. You can still place orders and contact us with questions, but 
shipping will be held until the 5th. During that time, I plan to get more 
riding in, because riding is what it's really all about, right?

Thanks!

Anton
velolumino.com

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Pondero]

Reed, I currently have two Rivs (Hilsen and QB) and an Ocean Air Cycles 
Rambler.  I love them all.  To me the differences are subtle in the sense 
that they all ride like bicycles, but the differences are significant when 
it comes to how they handle/feel under different riding conditions.  For 
example, I love the sensations of my Rivs on a descent, and I appreciate 
how front loads have almost no impact on the handling of my Rambler.  I 
tried front loads on my Rivs but it felt to me like the wheel flop was 
amplified and took away from the delightful feel of the steering when rear 
loaded.  So I decided I wanted to try a low trail design frameset.  The 
Rambler handles front loads wonderfully, and I have come to enjoy the 
convenience of having things "right there".  As a small, light rider, I 
also enjoy the livelier/more flexible standard diameter tubing.  Lately, 
and for how I like to use a bicycle, my Rambler has been my ace.  But I 
could easily be happy with any one of my bikes if forced to own only one.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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[RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't mean to minimize it though, it definitely is a consideration. I am 
fortunate to have the strength and health right now.  But I suspect if you 
can carry a regular bike up, with a bit more effort you can get a long 
wheelbase bike up. If you can't carry a regular bike the point is moot. So 
it's really about those on the borderline. It is a factor, even a 
limitation that some might not have a workaround for (safe bicycle common 
area, foyer, etc.) My Le Tour mixte is certainly easier to get up and down 
that my Clementine.

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 10:58:48 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
> Ha. I suppose 'very big disadvantage' was a bit extreme. I carted my 
> commuter up and down a lot of stairs that day.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:14:37 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> I think "off road" is a little broad. Yes, at some point on some terrain 
>> somewhere, any particular bike design will start to involve compromise. In 
>> lots of directions, Rivendells take a lot longer to reach those compromises.
>>
>> Single track with lots of rocks and roots and logs would start to 
>> classify as "technical" to me. Most Rivs are designed for, at a minimum, 
>> handling basic dirt roads with aplomb, and  "trail" models like the 
>> Appaloosa can get considerably rougher. But at some point, you may need to 
>> either consider another machine, or do some "underbiking." (A term I use 
>> here for ever so slight comic relief.) In other words, if a majority, or 
>> even a significant minority, of one's riding landscape includes a bunch of 
>> technical single track with many obstacles requiring constant wheelies, a 
>> Rivendell might not be the machine. Or it might, but you need to a. walk 
>> during the trickiest sections. b. figure a way to roll over them slowly, a 
>> la a curb half-pop half-rollover style maneuver, or c. start a weight 
>> training program to build upper body wheelie strength. Keeping in mind all 
>> the while that Rivendells are also designed with more bb drop, which will 
>> limit all that rock and log hoppin' probably as much as longer chainstays. 
>> As a design parameter, safety and smooth ride, predicable handling in an 
>> upright position would seem to be the goal more than gnarly single track 
>> capabilities. Still, I took my Big Dummy on a few not-quite-hairy stretches 
>> of single track without much problem. Definitely not a day to day thing, 
>> though. I plan to climb Mt. Beacon with my Clementine this summer, will 
>> report my findings!
>>
>> From the link I posted above:
>>
>> *Longer wheelbases make a bike more stable, smoother riding, less apt to 
>>> get redirected by wind and bumps. Safer, I’d say. Easier to control at high 
>>> speeds. So you can’t ride as small of a circle—who cares? You can still do 
>>> a U-turn, you can still ride the bike anywhere you ought to be riding a 
>>> bike. It’s just better when the chainstays are longer.*
>>>
>>
>> I suppose you could add, "can't constantly pop over big logs and rocks as 
>> easy--who cares?" But that would be presumptuous, obviously. 
>>
>> While I would I would not call it a "very big disadvantage," I would 
>> agree with Eric that the longer wheelbase bikes can present a little bit 
>> more of a challenge in apartment living, and when climbing and (especially 
>> with mixte/Clementine designs) when descending stairs. I would also agree 
>> the ride is worth it.
>>
>> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 9:42:52 PM UTC-4, RJM wrote:
>>>
>>> Off road I feel they are a detriment especially when riding single 
>>> track. Getting a manual or wheelie happening (a skill used to pop over 
>>> logs, ext.) is not very easy with a long chain stay bike.
>>>
>>> But extra cargo capacity and probably stability are pros, I suppose. 
>>> They will probably help with a touring bike. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[masmojo]

I have a couple low trail bikes & a couple that I presume are not and honestly 
my overall impression is I like the steering on my low trail bikes better,  but 
they have other issues that are mildly annoying,  (toe overlap, etc.) I got 
into trying to digest it at one point,  but honestly what I discovered is that 
there is so much that effects the steering that it is way too complicated to 
say low trail or not! 
Head tube angle,  head tube height, fork rake, fork height, top tube length & 
even the seat angle or the thickness/strength of the seat stays can effect the 
steering,  especially when riding no hands!
So, ultimately it's a mix of all these elements and how the interact with the 
rider, who is also different then the next rider and the next, etc.
That said I also prefer front loading over rear, I wish rear worked better for 
me, but it doesn't. 

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[RBW] FS Brooks Cambium C-15 Carved Black

[Garth]

  For sale I have a brand new still in attached packaging Brooks C-15 
Carved saddle black.  

I am asking for Paypal payment sent as Friends and Family of $130 which 
includes USA shipping of my choice.  Contact me off list .

Thank you ! 

Here's the pics  
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bE64fb5uKXs/V2LQEctGflI/B_I/-yFDxGEDLC8j6l0ydXXgeU2rKLhOxYTvACCo/s1152/IMG_20160616_121020_016.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OOLf1_e0kCM/V2LP_-VlRiI/B_s/7EIFaSgVaYQN2WuXN1lqX2ZzeUn_8Ew4wCCo/s1152/IMG_20160616_121055_586.jpg

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Canti Stud Rack Adaptors

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

But the Paul adapters work extremely well.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Ginz  wrote:
>
> For the Paul brakes you need the Paul adapter. It is special.
>
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The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 
& Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on behalf of 
Skadden. Use by a retired partner of the skadden.com or probonolaw.com domain 
names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
affiliates.

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Canti Stud Rack Adaptors

[Ginz]

For the Paul brakes you need the Paul adapter. It is special. 

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[RBW] FS: NITTO cockpit - alba, tallux, miesha's, shimano, etc

[ant ritchey]

Another RBW/iBOB cross-post, another link to another Craigslist post...

CLASSY & HIGH-RISIN' 


Stainless steel Albatross, 110mm/25.4 Tallux, typical RBW Shimano MTB 
levers, the Dura-Ace 9 speed bar end shifters that we all know, Miesha's 
cork, Newbaums, a little hemp & a little shellac.

Like the add says- the shifters are not pictured but definitely definitely 
definitely included.  Additional pics available upon request.

IF the Shimano shifters were a dealbreaker BUT Silver bar ends would get 
you on board - I'd happily make the substitution for ya.

The stem was never installed further than the minimum insert.  No scratches 
on the whole rig.  Pristine.  Not tryin' to part this out unless I have to.

$200 + shipping

PM if interested.  Thanks!

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Canti Stud Rack Adaptors

[Bill Lindsay]

I bought a set of the Paul ones for $28 plus tax plus shipping, but did not 
use them.  Assuming I can find them, I would sell them for $20 shipped.  
Let me know if you want me to look for them.   

https://paulcomp.com/shop/components/rack-adapter/

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:17:44 AM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> Hi all, apologies for the WTB, hopefully i didn't trick you into clicking. 
>  I'm needing a set of adaptors to mount a canti-rack to paul's brakes.  I 
> believe a few different versions are out there, Paul's, Velo Orange, 
> Berthoud.  If you have a pair in the parts box orphaned from it's rack 
> please drop me an email and let's make a deal! Thanks!
>

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[RBW] WTB: Canti Stud Rack Adaptors

[Minh]

Hi all, apologies for the WTB, hopefully i didn't trick you into clicking. 
 I'm needing a set of adaptors to mount a canti-rack to paul's brakes.  I 
believe a few different versions are out there, Paul's, Velo Orange, 
Berthoud.  If you have a pair in the parts box orphaned from it's rack 
please drop me an email and let's make a deal! Thanks!

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[Garth]

  I just ran across this article today and it answered many of my questions 
and more I had not considered like the low trail fork had on rough 
pavement. Sounds pretty great to me, I'm sold :)   

http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2015/11/a-rakes-progress.html

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 6:30:10 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>
>  I am guessing that some grades were in excess of 9%. Could you tell us 
> how you used the choco moose(?) bars? How many hand positions do you use on 
> it, and in what circumstances?
>

> I usually ride drops and wonder how it feels riding such difficult terrain 
> in an upright position with upright bars. I am thinking of making my Sam an 
> upright bike and interested to know how works out.
>

Grades on this route never exceeded 8% but there were plenty of 6-10 mile 
stretches at 6-8% without letting up. So it wasn't very steep but the 
climbing was long duration at my slow, loaded, sight-seeing pace. I usually 
ride drops too but I found last year on tour on a different bike that I 
really wished for a more upright position to take in the scenery. These 
bars were great for my purposes. I had great stability, control, views, and 
comfort. I also felt like the upright position was great for getting oxygen 
into my lungs. My chest was up and open and breathing was easy. It was also 
great on downhills because I felt  like I had to brake less. 

I did have to spend a serious amount of time tweaking to find my preferred 
height for the bars. Too high and the bike was less steady and my hands 
would fall asleep. Too low caused too much pressure on my hands. After a 
number of micro-adjustments, I found a position that was completely 
comfortable. It was surprising to me what a difference a very small change 
could make.

I mostly rode with my hands on the grips -- no gloves needed, which felt 
wonderful to me. I would sometimes place my hands just on the far side of 
the brake levers/shifters -- in the corners. That was comfortable but a bit 
crowded. And I would sometimes place them on the flats (by which I mean the 
far stretch of bar that runs perpendicular to the frame). But that mostly 
felt too far and more leaned forward than I wanted to be on this ride. In 
Boulder, where the climbs are steeper (9-13% and sometimes 15%), I would 
use the flats a bit more often on the steeper parts. But I never felt 
tipped backwards even using the grip position. I am not riding for power or 
speed, just comfort and pleasure. 

What I thought I might prefer would be to possibly ditch the grips and move 
the brake levers and shifters further forward towards the corner so that I 
had a longer section of parallel bars that I could position my hands along. 
I sometimes felt like I wanted my hands exactly where the brake levers and 
shifters were located. But I really like having the brake levers close to 
the bar end, so I am not sure. 

Also, when I found my correct bar height, I realized that I might have 
preferred using my Imperial Flyer saddle after all. I had a wider b67 on 
this for the more upright position but with the climbing, I had to sit 
exactly right to avoid back of thigh friction. So I am going to try 
switching back and see how that goes. 

For what it is worth, I have Albastache bars on the Sam I bought from Rich 
via this list.  I love those too but that is a very different feeling bike. 
On that one, when climbing or descending, I usually have my hands out in 
front on the curves (which is also where the brake levers are located). The 
bar end position is great for everything else. I am not sure what the 
difference is. Maybe the long chain stay length on the Joe makes it feel 
more stable when climbing in an upright position because your weight is 
more centered? I haven't thought about it so that's just a quick guess. I 
had been focused on riding the Joe to make sure it was comfortable for the 
tour but now I plan to ride the Sam more to see what it likes. I just put 
some Rock ' Road tires on it and am looking forward to some mixed terrain 
riding.  


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[RBW] Re: VO fenders vs. Honjo fenders?

[Anton Tutter]

Brian nailed it. VO fenders themselves are great, every bit as high quality 
as Honjos, but the Berthoud stays are superior for the reasons Brian 
mentioned. Just make sure you purchase stays in the size that's appropriate 
for the width of your fenders.

For what it's worth, the very expensive Honjo fenders on my Jeff Lyon 
L'Avecaise had some serious symmetry problems from the factory and required 
a lot of manipulation to install correctly. One issue was that they had 
twist, and the other is that the scalloped ends were not shaped 
symmetrically. The curvature of the scallop on the left side of the fender 
did not match that of the other side. But I've not experienced a defective 
VO fender thus far, and I've installed at least a dozen sets of them on my 
own and other peoples' bikes. 

One thing that I do appreciate on Honjo fenders is the rounded rolled edge, 
which allows you to easily snake a taillight wire. Most VO fenders have a 
crimped edge which can not fit a wire.

Anton
velolumino.com

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:34:14 AM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> I say buy the VO fenders but use the money saved to buy the Berthoud  
> mounting stays from Ben's cycle. The weigh less (not much), have a lower 
> profile on the out side of the fender (less chance for toe overlap) and to 
> my eye look less obtrusive than VO or Honjo mounting hardware. The Honjo 
> fenders are nicer but not by some order of magnitude to justify close to 
> double the price.
>
> On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 10:35:40 PM UTC-4, Esteban wrote:
>>
>> Honjos. Totally worth it for the quality and to have something made in 
>> Japan. Skip several lunches out (bring a sandwich) and there's the 
>> difference. 
>>
>> Esteban
>> San Diego, Calif.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: VO fenders vs. Honjo fenders?

[masmojo]

I don't have the VO fenders,  but by my experience everything I've gotten from 
VO has been over the top great & probably better, then it needs to be. I plan 
on getting Zepplins fir at least 1 26" wheeled bike in the near future. 

I have wooden fenders on 2 bikes & Honjos on my Rawland; I picked up the Honjos 
from VO some years ago on clearance,  no problems mounting them, but last this 
last year I shortened the rear one by about 4", I frequently have to pop the 
bike up on the back wheel to maneuver it through tight spaces & the rear fender 
would always drag on the ground.  I cut it off and then got a hammer &  small 
anvil and worked the cut edge similar to how it had been finished before.  Like 
it much better now, an added bonus is it's easier to get the wheel in & out 
now. 

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[RBW] Re: Thoughts on the whole low trail thing?

[GAJett]

Been riding my AHH about 4 years now.  Other than gearing, it's just a 
"stock" set up by Riv., including the Nitto F-15 / Barsack, Noodles, Rich 
wheels, and Schwalbe Marathons. I rarely carry more than 5 pounds up front, 
usually less.  I dare not take my hands off the handlebars of the Hilson as 
the shimmy starts immediately. And it doesn't matter if I have added weight 
on the rear.  

I previously rode an early-model Raleigh Competition in a size really too 
large for me.  Would commonly carry up to 10 pounds in a handlebar bag.  I 
sometimes add another 25 in front panniers.  Never a problem with shimmy or 
riding hands free. No real idea why as I don't know how the geometries 
compare. 
gajett

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 3:24:31 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I've been a Rivvy sorta guy for the last ten years, owning several of 
> their bikes and numerous others built up in Riv-inspired ways. Recently 
> I've been reading through back issues of Bicycle Quarterly, and back posts 
> on Jan Heine's blog. It's got me wondering about this whole 
> alternate-universe practical bike thing he describes, which seems to be 
> characterized by low trail steering geometry, flexible frames, and carrying 
> loads up front.
>
> I'd love to try it, but such bikes aren't exactly common. 
>
> Does anyone have experience with both Rivvy (mid-trail, burly rigid frame, 
> carrying stuff all over) and the more French rando / Jan sort of bike? What 
> did you think of each?
>
>
> Reed
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Cranks, Stem, Canti Brakes, 29" Tires, Dynamo Stuff.

[David Banzer]

Thanks to those who bought something - everything should be in the mail 
today if it hasn't been sent already.
Remaining items are:

1. SP SV-8 Dynamo Hub - new, never laced, 36h - $110

4. Sugino Cranks - I believe these are Alpinas, 110 double (no inner 74bcd 
drillings), more traditional 5-bolt design, meaning no hidden 5th bolt, 
172.5mm, no chainings - though I can add Willow rings at a reasonable price 
($10 a chainring), crank is new - $70

5. Shimano Triple Cranks - Exage, FC-M520, silver-ish painted finish, I 
have a few of these, 110/74, 170mm or 175mm, black chainring bolts, no 
chainrings but I can include Willow rings at a reasonable price ($10 a 
chainring) - $25

6. Velo Orange Grand Cru Cantilever Brakes - MK2 version, MAFAC type 
design, includes straddle cables and generic silver hangers,  comes with 
new Koolstop Salmon pads, this is a whole bike's worth - $40

9. Velo Orange Threadless Stem - polished silver, 9cm, 26.0mm clamp, 
earlier octagonal version - $18

10. Nitto CT80 Chromoly Threadless Stem - for 1-1/8" steerers, 
fillet-brazed chromoly, and chrome finished, beautiful stem, 11cm, 25.4mm 
clamp - $70

11. Continental Speed King Tires - 29 x 2.2 - pair - lightly used, 
lightweight, smooth rolling tire, technically a mtb tire, but works great 
for pavement - $75

12. Vee Rubber V12 Tires - 29 x 1.95, lightly used, folding bead, about 
47mm wide on Dyads - $45

Also will have a single-speed/fixed-gear wheelset available soon. 700c, 
CR18 rims, Formula/IRO low flange rear hub (36h), Suntour XC front hub 
(32h). $100 plus shipping - I'm waiting on hubs to build up a new wheelset 
first though, so probably a couple weeks before I could ship them. Local 
pickup in Chicago highly encouraged on these.

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 10:30:36 AM UTC-5, David Banzer wrote:
>
> Time to pay off the old credit card bill for a bunch of recent 
> bike-related purchases. 
> Prices include shipping unless noted.
> Paypal Personal payment on these items please.
> Local pickup in Chicago works, I'm across from Horner Park.
> Thanks,
> David
> Chicago
>
> 1. SP SV-8 Dynamo Hub - new, never laced, 36h - $110
>
> 2. Son Edelux I Dynamo Light - original upright version, polished silver, 
> no fork mount, 54cm wire length, bare cable ends, I used it with Shimano/SP 
> type connection - $80
>
> 3. B Cyo IQ Premium Dynamo Light - used, works great no issues, full 
> wire length - $80
>
> 4. Sugino Cranks - I believe these are Alpinas, 110 double (no inner 74bcd 
> drillings), more traditional 5-bolt design, meaning no hidden 5th bolt, 
> 172.5mm, no chainings - though I can add Willow rings at a reasonable price 
> ($10 a chainring), crank is new - $70
>
> 5. Shimano Triple Cranks - Exage, FC-M520, silver-ish painted finish, I 
> have a few of these, 110/74, 170mm or 175mm, black chainring bolts, no 
> chainrings but I can include Willow rings at a reasonable price ($10 a 
> chainring) - $25
>
> 6. Velo Orange Grand Cru Cantilever Brakes - MK2 version, MAFAC type 
> design, includes straddle cables and generic silver hangers,  comes with 
> new Koolstop Salmon pads, this is a whole bike's worth - $40
>
> 7. Tektro RBP 866 - new old stock, black (anodized I think), internal 
> spring design, like Paul brakes, this is a whole bike's worth - $25
>
> 8. Nitto Technomic Deluxe Quill Stem - 190mm overall height version, Pearl 
> quality, 12cm, 25.4mm clamp - $50
>
> 9. Velo Orange Threadless Stem - polished silver, 9cm, 26.0mm clamp, 
> earlier octagonal version - $18
>
> 10. Nitto CT80 Chromoly Threadless Stem - for 1-1/8" steerers, 
> fillet-brazed chromoly, and chrome finished, beautiful stem, 11cm, 25.4mm 
> clamp - $70
>
> 11. Continental Speed King Tires - 29 x 2.2 - pair - lightly used, 
> lightweight, smooth rolling tire, technically a mtb tire, but works great 
> for pavement - $75
>
> 12. Vee Rubber V12 Tires - 29 x 1.95, lightly used, folding bead, about 
> 47mm wide on Dyads - $45
>
> Also will have a single-speed/fixed-gear wheelset available soon. 700c, 
> CR18 rims, Formula/IRO low flange rear hub (36h), Suntour XC front hub 
> (32h). $100 plus shipping - I'm waiting on hubs to build up a new wheelset 
> first though, so probably a couple weeks before I could ship them. Local 
> pickup in Chicago highly encouraged on these.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New bike day! Apppaloosa!

[Patrick Moore]

Michael -- thanks for this writeup. I was particularly struck by this:

* I rode around their parking lot, doing laps around their building. I
really liked the bike. It felt nimble, like my LeMond cyclocross bike, but
more stable. I expected to dislike the handlebars, but in a snap judgment
decided I liked them.*

All the positive reviews about the Appaloosa are making my defenses start
to crumble. I would very much like to try one out. I am more skeptical of
sweep back bars, but those too get much praise.

Question: can you elaborate about the difference in handling and feel
between the Appaloosa and the Clem and the Chevs? I realize that this is
first impressions, but those sometimes reveal real qualities.

(Aside: I wonder, if I went all weight weenie, if I could get an Appaloosa
down to UCI minimum ...)

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Michael Morrissey <
michaelgmorris...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wrote a bit more about my new Rivendell on my blog:
>
> http://thedayweneverwenthome.blogspot.com/2016/06/riding-first-fifty-miles-fast-and-free.html
>
> It also includes my $0.02 on test riding other Rivendells in Walnut Creek!
>
> Thank you for the kind words of encouragement with the bike!
>
> - michael
>
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2016 at 4:37:04 PM UTC-4, Michael Morrissey wrote:
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> I finally got my Appaloosa together!  I'm really enjoying this bike!  The
>> main thing I love about it is the lower bottom bracket height.  It's so
>> stable and comfy.  I built it up with a mish-mash of parts: some new, some
>> from my cyclocross bike, some from the ebay, some from the shelves at the
>> LBS!  I'm running 35mm tires now because that's what I have, but I'm going
>> to go fatter soon!  After wanting a Rivendell for 10 years, I am thrilled
>> to have one!
>>
>> Parts list:
>> Paul neo-retro brakes and paul levers
>> Sugino x White Industries cranks
>> VP Vice pedals
>> Wolf Tooth 94bcd x 32 tooth narrow wide chainring (really low gearing!)
>> Sunrace 9 speed thumbshifter
>> Nitto dirt drop stem with albatross bars
>>
>> m
>>
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-- 
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**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Car-free week

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

Rolling hills.  Tough occasionally on single speed (unless you resort to the 
lowest common gear), but not what most on this list would call really hilly  .

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Lungimsam  wrote:
>
> Hilly or flat there?
>
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The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 
& Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on behalf of 
Skadden. Use by a retired partner of the skadden.com or probonolaw.com domain 
names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
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[RBW] Re: VO fenders vs. Honjo fenders?

[Brian Campbell]

I say buy the VO fenders but use the money saved to buy the Berthoud  
mounting stays from Ben's cycle. The weigh less (not much), have a lower 
profile on the out side of the fender (less chance for toe overlap) and to 
my eye look less obtrusive than VO or Honjo mounting hardware. The Honjo 
fenders are nicer but not by some order of magnitude to justify close to 
double the price.

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 10:35:40 PM UTC-4, Esteban wrote:
>
> Honjos. Totally worth it for the quality and to have something made in 
> Japan. Skip several lunches out (bring a sandwich) and there's the 
> difference. 
>
> Esteban
> San Diego, Calif.
>

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[RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I still have my flip. A few months back, it was mysteriously shutting off. 
As I don't pay much attention, it took me a while to notice the problem. 
Finally decided it was bad enough to get a new phone. But while I was going 
through that rigamarole (!), the symptoms seemed to go away. Love when that 
happens! Now it shuts down once in a while, but acceptable. Also still 
holds  a charge forever--at least a week. Whereas people I know with "smart 
phones" (everyone--except a few Bobbers, natch) are always complaining of a 
dead phone. How smart can you be when you're dead?

I really dislike the portable technology thing. The number of lives it has 
saved by being able to call when stranded in the wilderness vs. the number 
killed by inattentive driving, I suspect the math doesn't come out well. 
Why I am still surprised when I am riding along a rural path of a beautiful 
summer evening by the river and come upon someone talking loudly into their 
phone while "enjoying" the scenery, I don't know. My take is that 
industrial civilization really started the downward slope when the phone 
crawled off the kitchen wall and into our pockets.

https://youtu.be/wwr5fPm1NHI

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 1:24:04 PM UTC-4, Reid wrote:
>
> The term "retro" is often used about Rivendell bikes. A term I happily 
> agree with. So my ancient cell phone, a simple flip open model, just died. 
> RIP. I went to the Sprint store for a replacement and, shock!, they have a 
> couple of current models that are flip style and simple. Just what I want. 
> No bells and whistles. One model is called "the Retro."
>
> YES!
>
> Reid
>
>

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[RBW] Re: At least I'm consistant

[IanA]

That's brilliant Ryan!  I enjoy the fact that an IT person eschews "smart" 
phones. 

I went the other way for a year or so. iPhone 4 with pay as you go voice only. 
No data plan. No internet at home and no TV. It was fantastic. I downloaded BBC 
radio podcasts at work via wifi. Also downloaded the iBob and RBW lists in 
digest email. If I had computing to do, I could use a work computer or I had to 
carry my laptop to the coffee shop. 

Now I have Internet at home though, but I should cancel it. It's just too 
invasive somehow. I still use my iPhone 4, which is still in excellent 
condition and works perfectly,  but apparently it's rapidly becoming obsolete. 
I can't use the yoga app anymore. Yoga is a 4000 year old practice that I can't 
book on a three year old computing device! I'm glad my bicycles don't go 
obsolete so quickly. 

Ian A/Canada -  appreciating the convenience of home internet, if reaenting it 
somewhat. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Car-free week

[Lungimsam]

Hilly or flat there?

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