Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

I dunno, saw a powder coated bombadil, still looked amazing. I think it
didn't have a head badge either. The lines and design were still there to
see, good stuff.
On Sep 10, 2012 11:25 PM, "Michael_S"  wrote:

> A Riv needs an appropriate Head badge and nice paint, that's what
> sets them apart.  $1000 or so seems like a good price for a Riv.
>
> What we really need is more info and less speculation.
>
> ~mike.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Michael_S]

A Riv needs an appropriate Head badge and nice paint, that's what 
sets them apart.  $1000 or so seems like a good price for a Riv.  

What we really need is more info and less speculation.

~mike.

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[ted]

"Riv never discounts below MSRP"

Um well hardly ever I suppose, but pre order discounts and closeout
blow outs (e.g SimpleOne) have happened.

On Sep 10, 7:02 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
> MSRP on the San Marcos is $900. But Merry Sales and I think BTI sell it 
> wholesale to any shop that wants to order one. Some of those may be willing 
> to sell at razor thin margin for some reason. Riv never discounts below MSRP.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

I thought it would be a complete bike for around that price. It could be
done with powder coat and stickers in liu of badges. Grant has said a few
times the materials are a smaller part of the cost compared to the labor so
you could save 300 or so right there, even over the San Marcos.
On Sep 10, 2012 10:12 PM, "cyclotourist"  wrote:

> So ~$1,000 is the sweet spot for Taiwanese bikes then. Throw a headset on
> there and it's out the door!
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <
> thill@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> MSRP on the San Marcos is $900. But Merry Sales and I think BTI sell it
>> wholesale to any shop that wants to order one. Some of those may be willing
>> to sell at razor thin margin for some reason. Riv never discounts below
>> MSRP.
>>
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>
>
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> David
> Redlands, CA
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[cyclotourist]

So ~$1,000 is the sweet spot for Taiwanese bikes then. Throw a headset on
there and it's out the door!

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 7:02 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <
thill@gmail.com> wrote:

> MSRP on the San Marcos is $900. But Merry Sales and I think BTI sell it
> wholesale to any shop that wants to order one. Some of those may be willing
> to sell at razor thin margin for some reason. Riv never discounts below
> MSRP.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

MSRP on the San Marcos is $900. But Merry Sales and I think BTI sell it 
wholesale to any shop that wants to order one. Some of those may be willing to 
sell at razor thin margin for some reason. Riv never discounts below MSRP.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

I would think the partnership with soma eats alot if cost.
On Sep 10, 2012 8:25 PM, "cyclotourist"  wrote:

> Yeah, maybe $1K. Half price from a Homer. But if the San Marcos can
> average $750 retail, why couldn't other Taiwanese bikes (single TT, single
> color)?
>
> I guess that raises the question, why does a Taiwanese made Sam H cost
> more than a Taiwanese San Marcos?
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Michael_S wrote:
>
>> I doubt the price would go that low David, maybe $1000 like the original
>> Hillbornes. I would buy one at that price that fits fat tires with a single
>> top tube and lugs, no discs please.
>> On the stem issue, to me it's tough to build a production bike and get
>> everything to line up for everybody type. So those with longer legs and
>> shorter torso's end up with taller stems. For me most of the Riv's fit
>> pretty well with just the right amount of stem, so I prefer quills.
>>
>> ~mike
>> Carlsbad Ca
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
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> Redlands, CA
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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[ted]

as a wild guess: fancier paint job, lots of rack mounts, more
expensive fork blades.

On Sep 10, 5:25 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Yeah, maybe $1K. Half price from a Homer. But if the San Marcos can average
> $750 retail, why couldn't other Taiwanese bikes (single TT, single color)?
>
> I guess that raises the question, why does a Taiwanese made Sam H cost more
> than a Taiwanese San Marcos?
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Michael_S wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I doubt the price would go that low David, maybe $1000 like the original
> > Hillbornes. I would buy one at that price that fits fat tires with a single
> > top tube and lugs, no discs please.
> > On the stem issue, to me it's tough to build a production bike and get
> > everything to line up for everybody type. So those with longer legs and
> > shorter torso's end up with taller stems. For me most of the Riv's fit
> > pretty well with just the right amount of stem, so I prefer quills.
>
> > ~mike
> > Carlsbad Ca
>
> >>   --
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> Redlands, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[cyclotourist]

Yeah, maybe $1K. Half price from a Homer. But if the San Marcos can average
$750 retail, why couldn't other Taiwanese bikes (single TT, single color)?

I guess that raises the question, why does a Taiwanese made Sam H cost more
than a Taiwanese San Marcos?


On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 9:00 AM, Michael_S wrote:

> I doubt the price would go that low David, maybe $1000 like the original
> Hillbornes. I would buy one at that price that fits fat tires with a single
> top tube and lugs, no discs please.
> On the stem issue, to me it's tough to build a production bike and get
> everything to line up for everybody type. So those with longer legs and
> shorter torso's end up with taller stems. For me most of the Riv's fit
> pretty well with just the right amount of stem, so I prefer quills.
>
> ~mike
> Carlsbad Ca
>
>
>>
>>
>>   --
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[cyclotourist]

1" threadless stems. I wouldn't want to buy a $300 custom stem, and don't
like shims.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> 1" threadless WHAT is next to non-existent?  Stems?  Not only are custom
> stems available, you can also use a shim with 1 1/8" threadless, so stems
> are not a problem.  Headsets?  Chris King has them in several styles, and
> when I asked at their booth at NAHBS a couple of years ago about long-term
> availability, they said they would ALWAYS be available.  So you've got
> stems and the best threadless headsets around.  What more do you need?  Is
> there a critical spacer shortage I'm unaware of?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "cyclotourist" 
>
> Downsides are 1-1/8 threadless not really looking elegant with road
> tubing, and 1" threadless is next to non-existent.
>
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RE: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Chris King?


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PATRICK MOORE
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 12:27 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

You could mix and match these: not the Riv aesthetic, but still, nice.

On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Matthew J 
mailto:matthewj...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Is there a critical spacer shortage I'm unaware of?

My problem with spacers is there are too darn many of them.  IMO opinion, 
spacers are kind of ugly.

A custom 1" threadless stem that does not spacers is almost as good as a quill, 
so long as my desired bar height does not change.   I say almost because 
aesthetically, I think the thinner quill stem emerging from the headset 
provides a more visually clean transition to the handlebars.

Jim Thill is probably on to something when he says part of this owes something 
to what I grew up with.  On the other hand, Fixie Hipsters, whose primary bike 
objective is aesthetics put a premium on old quill stem bikes.  The quill may 
not be the only factor but given it is what the rider sees most while riding, 
it must have an attraction for them.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Matthew J]

> Is there a critical spacer shortage I'm unaware of? 

My problem with spacers is there are too darn many of them.  IMO opinion, 
spacers are kind of ugly.
 
A custom 1" threadless stem that does not spacers is almost as good as a 
quill, so long as my desired bar height does not change.   I say almost 
because aesthetically, I think the thinner quill stem emerging from the 
headset provides a more visually clean transition to the handlebars.  
 
Jim Thill is probably on to something when he says part of this owes 
something to what I grew up with.  On the other hand, Fixie Hipsters, whose 
primary bike objective is aesthetics put a premium on old quill stem 
bikes.  The quill may not be the only factor but given it is what the rider 
sees most while riding, it must have an attraction for them. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Michael_S]

I doubt the price would go that low David, maybe $1000 like the original 
Hillbornes. I would buy one at that price that fits fat tires with a single 
top tube and lugs, no discs please.
On the stem issue, to me it's tough to build a production bike and get 
everything to line up for everybody type. So those with longer legs and 
shorter torso's end up with taller stems. For me most of the Riv's fit 
pretty well with just the right amount of stem, so I prefer quills.  

~mike
Carlsbad Ca


>
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Steve Palincsar]

1" threadless WHAT is next to non-existent?  Stems?  Not only are custom stems 
available, you can also use a shim with 1 1/8" threadless, so stems are not a 
problem.  Headsets?  Chris King has them in several styles, and when I asked at 
their booth at NAHBS a couple of years ago about long-term availability, they 
said they would ALWAYS be available.  So you've got stems and the best 
threadless headsets around.  What more do you need?  Is there a critical spacer 
shortage I'm unaware of?

- Original Message -
From: "cyclotourist" 

Downsides are 1-1/8 threadless not really looking elegant with road tubing, and 
1" threadless is next to non-existent. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[cyclotourist]

Jim, a very thoughtful posting! Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

I grew up w/ quill stems, but prefer threadless. I have found installation
is incredibly easy. I've never enjoyed tightening threaded headsets, so
threadless have been a pleasure to work with. Also I don't really care for
the tall backwards "7" look of quill stems at saddle height. They look
ungainly to me. It's also a big chunk of angled metal pointing at my crotch
which I don't appreciate for unintended dismounts.

Downsides are 1-1/8 threadless not really looking elegant with road tubing,
and 1" threadless is next to non-existent. Threadless also looks kinda'
silly with 50mm+ of spacers on a poorly designed bike. The strength/lack of
flex isn't really a bonus as I've never noticed a quill stem flexing on me.

So yeah, long/short: I'd like a Taiwanese built budget Riv country bike
(think AHH) w/ threadless and a single top tube for $750 or whatever the
San Marcos goes for. I don't know if there are enough people in that niche
to build one though, or if GP would even want to go after them.

Would be a cool bike though!


On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <
thill@gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that quill stems are a niche that Riv fills, more or less
> exclusively, which is no small thing. Obviously, the quill stem has a
> modest-sized but loyal following, and Grant would be smart to keep filling
> this niche, as long as it exists, all by himself.
>
> On the other hand, think about demographics. I'm 35 - most cyclists my age
> or younger have little or no nostalgia for quill stems and threaded
> steerers, and, in fact, may think a quill looks funny or archaic compared
> to more familiar threadless systems. If you're over 50, then you probably
> came of age as a cyclist in the quill stem era, and are not planning to
> change. But if you're over 50, your bike purchases are likely to slow down
> in the next 10-20 years, if they haven't already, while people my age and
> younger are just ramping up the new bike spending. Obviously, this is loose
> speculation, and individual situations vary. But I think it's safe to say
> that the number of people who prefer quill stems, and are willing to pay
> extra to get a frame that takes a quill stem, is shrinking, not
> growing/stabilizing. I have no stats to back this up, just a limited view
> from my own knothole.
>
> Of course, Riv already makes a bunch of frame models that take a quill
> stem. If one frame model out of eight stepped outside the lines a bit, in
> the interest of cutting costs, making the frame sturdier without a double
> top tube, and being more accommodating to a much wider variety of
> contemporary stems, bars, and headsets (more versatility!), I imagine that
> the result would be broader appeal and new customers. That particular model
> with the (for example) disc tabs and 1-1/8" threadless steerer might not be
> the "retro-grouch"  ideal of many on this discussion board, but there are
> lots of other options for the purists. And there's no reason whatsoever
> that such a frame couldn't adhere to underlying principles, like good
> tire/fender clearance, higher handlebars (it can be done with good design
> in a non-ugly way), and, of course, lovely lugged steel with a cool
> paintjob.
>
> I started following Riv when there were basically two models: the heavy
> duty Atlantis, and the lightweight Rambouillet/Romulus/Redwood. It seemed
> easy to distinguish the two, and I had one of each for awhile. I have
> enjoyed seeing the proliferation of new models, but frankly, it starts to
> get a little bewildering to me - imagine how the casual observer must feel
> when trying to make sense of it! The Hillborne was supposed to be a halfway
> compromise of the Atlantis and the Hilsen, I think, but those two models
> weren't altogether dissimilar in terms of tire clearance and general
> capabilities (the Hilsen moniker replaced the Saluki which was billed as
> partway between Atlantis and Rambouillet). The Bombadil is the new
> heavy-duty workhorse offroader (which was the Atlantis role, previously),
> but the Hunqapillar splits the difference between that and the Atlantis. Do
> I have that right? How much difference is there to split? There have been
> discussions of what sets the Roadeo apart from the Hilsen, but it seems the
> differences are minor. It gets hard to see where one model stops and the
> next begins. Now to add yet another heavy-duty touring bike to the mix? Is
> there really a hungry market for a slightly less fancy version of the
> Hunqapillar that won't cannibalize Hunqapillar sales? Or should this new
> "budget" model be a substantially different bike that reaches out to a
> whole new crowd without competing with existing models?
>
> I'm sorry for rambling about all this. Sometimes it rubs people the wrong
> way that I say stuff that isn't 100% Riv cheerleading (I've been told by
> two other list participants to put a cork in it over t

Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[charlie]

Its been a while since I was forced to ride in the rain here in Washington 
State but I know if I start commuting again I will be stuck in it 
eventually and discs do work much better when it is raining hard like it 
does here. I don't imagine CA has much rain other than a light sprinkle now 
and then. Probably why adopting disc brakes are not a priority.

Some might ask well who in their right mind rides in a downpour anyway? My 
answer would be someone in Oregon or Washington on their way home with 15 
miles to go and nothing but fir trees to 'wait' underI really think 
regional differences drive some of the decision making. Its why you don't 
see many convertible automobiles in Washington and why homes in Arizona 
almost always have air conditioning. For the rider who only rides for 
pleasure its no big deal but more are using their bicycles to actually 
replace an automobile. (off my soapbox now)

On Sunday, September 9, 2012 7:51:08 PM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:
>
>
> I thought it would be relevant to post the following in relation to the 
> recent discussion of disc brakes.
>
> I was just looking at the Riv site. I hadn't read the Hunqapillar 
> description for a while, and it has been updated, fairly recently I 
> think. The following is stated in the second paragraph of the Hunqapillar's 
> current description:
>
> "
> You won’t find a better touring bike. Some may have disc brakes or 
> suspension or other features of debatable worth, but the Hunqapillar, 
> without them, is our idea of perfect. 
> "
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
>
> Removable faceplate and a 31.8 mm clamp option. I'm not terribly 
> interested in the 31.8 mm diameter specifically, but there are some nice 
> bars out there that are only available in that size. The 26.0 handlebar 
> size seems to be going away, by and large.
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:23:06 PM UTC-5, Peter Pesce wrote:
>>
>> I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make 
>> a removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable 
>> scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know 
>> there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto 
>> quality as I recall.
>>
>> -Pete in CT
>>
>> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>>>
>>> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love 
>>> but if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would 
>>> offer a much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust 
>>> the headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
>>> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>>>
>>> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
>>> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
>>> to adjust them. 
>>>
>>> Dan Abelson 
>>> St Paul, MN
>>>
>>
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>
> James Warren
> jimcw...@earthlink.net 
>
> - Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[James Warren]

I thought it would be relevant to post the following in relation to the recent 
discussion of disc brakes.

I was just looking at the Riv site. I hadn't read the Hunqapillar description 
for a while, and it has been updated, fairly recently I think. The following is 
stated in the second paragraph of the Hunqapillar's current description:

"
You won’t find a better touring bike. Some may have disc brakes or suspension 
or other features of debatable worth, but the Hunqapillar, without them, is our 
idea of perfect. 
"





On Sep 7, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

> Removable faceplate and a 31.8 mm clamp option. I'm not terribly interested 
> in the 31.8 mm diameter specifically, but there are some nice bars out there 
> that are only available in that size. The 26.0 handlebar size seems to be 
> going away, by and large.
> 
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:23:06 PM UTC-5, Peter Pesce wrote:
> I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make a 
> removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable 
> scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know 
> there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto 
> quality as I recall.
> 
> -Pete in CT
> 
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but if 
> I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a much 
> wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the headset, 
> and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being able to 
> remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
> 
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes on 
> my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how to 
> adjust them.
> 
> Dan Abelson 
> St Paul, MN
> 
> 
> -- 
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James Warren
jimcwar...@earthlink.net

- Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.



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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Pesce]

Funny you mention that! I was just today looking at the Cowbell for my Soma DC 
build, and thought they might be nice on my Rivs too if not for the clamp size. 
Now, if we could only convince Salsa to make then in silver! Off to the Salsa 
forums to start a thread.

Pete (never satisfied) in CT

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Garth]

Do Riv and "budget price" go together ? lol  !I too have followed Riv 
since just before the Atlantis came out for a whopping $950.  The Bombadil 
was what ... about $14-1500 when introduced ?Point being ... even if 
they could meet a price point ... for numerous reasons they don't stay 
there long .   This is no knock on them ... it's obviously hard to keep 
prices steady for long.   I'm glad to own a Bombadil and I anticipate 
another :)   

Doesn't money grow on trees ?   It does for those who don't look for it 
from trees !   ;)

>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Leslie]

Oh!  The old Nitto RM-14 is now the RM-13; the new RM-14 is a 31.8 handlebar; 
the Ragley Luxy is another 31.8.  I liked them, but there were SO few 31.8 
quill stems out there, and they weren't pretty... I really wanted a Nitto 
Dirt-Drop stem in 31.8, no such thing... Went w/the 26, which lets me use 26 or 
25.4 bars ( the latter shimmed)... 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Agreed. I would love to see a Riv exclusive Nitto stem with a pop-top. I
have a few cheaper ones on my round town bikes and they just make changing
bars/cockpit setups a dream.  The off brands of course do not have the
quality or strength of a Nitto so i don't trust them to be pulled on
with all my weight going up a 30% upgrade.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Yes, there are pluses and minuses to each.  When you want to adjust your
> handlebar height, or when you're buying a used bike, having a threadless
> stem is not an advantage.  What's a few seconds' work -- or maybe a
> replacement with a Technomic long quill stem -- with threaded is either a
> royal pain or time to buy a new fork and good luck with that with
> threadless.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan Abelson" 
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:30:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?
>
>
>
> I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I
> pulled the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for
> longer than I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply
> a little extra force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue
> with threadless. Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there
> are various kludges such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on
> bikes designed for quills but for what its worth I have a preference for
> threadless and having had bikes with both have found no downside for me to
> threadless. My opinion would probably be different if I liked to change bar
> height mid ride etc.
>
> Dan Abelson
> Saint Paul, mn
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[PATRICK MOORE]

Threadless benefits are, at least for me, largely ease of installation and
setup, this last because I know where I want my bars. But there's no
question that, for fine tuning, quills are far superior. IMO, the biggest
drawback to quill stems is not the quill system but the (usually) single
bolt, non-faceplate bar clamp.

That said, if I were to choose the stem and headset system for a new bike,
I'd choose threadless because it is (fine tuning adjustments aside) simply
a more efficient design.

I have no idea if the claimed "additional stiffness and consequent steering
accuracy" -- this used to be a sales point back when threadless was just
taking over the market -- is theoretically true or just bullshit.

As for looks, VO and Riv -- and I've seen others -- prove that not all
threadless stems have to be designed to that ugly in-your-face
cheap/industrial/crude aesthetic.

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Yes, there are pluses and minuses to each.  When you want to adjust your
> handlebar height, or when you're buying a used bike, having a threadless
> stem is not an advantage.  What's a few seconds' work -- or maybe a
> replacement with a Technomic long quill stem -- with threaded is either a
> royal pain or time to buy a new fork and good luck with that with
> threadless.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan Abelson" 
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:30:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?
>
>
>
> I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I
> pulled the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for
> longer than I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply
> a little extra force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue
> with threadless. Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there
> are various kludges such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on
> bikes designed for quills but for what its worth I have a preference for
> threadless and having had bikes with both have found no downside for me to
> threadless. My opinion would probably be different if I liked to change bar
> height mid ride etc.
>
> Dan Abelson
> Saint Paul, mn
>
> --
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>


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-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Steve Palincsar]

Yes, there are pluses and minuses to each.  When you want to adjust your 
handlebar height, or when you're buying a used bike, having a threadless stem 
is not an advantage.  What's a few seconds' work -- or maybe a replacement with 
a Technomic long quill stem -- with threaded is either a royal pain or time to 
buy a new fork and good luck with that with threadless.  


- Original Message -
From: "Dan Abelson" 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2012 2:30:16 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?



I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I pulled 
the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for longer than 
I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply a little extra 
force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue with threadless. 
Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there are various kludges 
such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on bikes designed for quills 
but for what its worth I have a preference for threadless and having had bikes 
with both have found no downside for me to threadless. My opinion would 
probably be different if I liked to change bar height mid ride etc. 

Dan Abelson 
Saint Paul, mn 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Joe Bunik]

On 9/7/12, Jim Mather  wrote:
> Just so everyone knows, the threadless barrier at Riv was broken by
> some but not all Legolas'. Here are a couple of examples:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/6922766182/in/pool-legolas
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/20986098@N04/6773347072/in/pool-legolas/
>
> The Roadeo is also offered with either:
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-roadeo.htm
>

I asked Mark, and he indicated  *all* Legolai were threadless, with a
1.6mm steerer. Whether that implies Roadeo uses a thicker
(thread-able?) steerer remains unclear to me.

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dan Abelson]

31.8 would be great. I would love to try salsa cowbells on my ahh.

Dan Abelson
On Sep 7, 2012 1:26 PM, "Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery" 
wrote:

> Removable faceplate and a 31.8 mm clamp option. I'm not terribly
> interested in the 31.8 mm diameter specifically, but there are some nice
> bars out there that are only available in that size. The 26.0 handlebar
> size seems to be going away, by and large.
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:23:06 PM UTC-5, Peter Pesce wrote:
>>
>> I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make
>> a removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable
>> scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know
>> there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto
>> quality as I recall.
>>
>> -Pete in CT
>>
>> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>>>
>>> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love
>>> but if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would
>>> offer a much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust
>>> the headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like
>>> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>>>
>>> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes
>>> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how
>>> to adjust them.
>>>
>>> Dan Abelson
>>> St Paul, MN
>>>
>>  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dan Abelson]

I was reminded of one other benefit of threadless the other day when I
pulled the stem out of my quickbeam to grease it after not greasing it for
longer than I should have. While the stem was not stuck yet, I had to apply
a little extra force to get it out. The stem getting stuck is not an issue
with threadless. Don't get me wrong I love my rivs that and I realize there
are various kludges such as adaptors to get threadless stems to work on
bikes designed for quills but for what its worth I have a preference for
threadless and having had bikes with both have found no downside for me to
threadless. My opinion would probably be different if I liked to change bar
height mid ride etc.

Dan Abelson
Saint Paul, mn

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Removable faceplate and a 31.8 mm clamp option. I'm not terribly interested 
in the 31.8 mm diameter specifically, but there are some nice bars out 
there that are only available in that size. The 26.0 handlebar size seems 
to be going away, by and large.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:23:06 PM UTC-5, Peter Pesce wrote:
>
> I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make a 
> removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable 
> scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know 
> there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto 
> quality as I recall.
>
> -Pete in CT
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>>
>> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but 
>> if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
>> much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
>> headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
>> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>>
>> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
>> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
>> to adjust them. 
>>
>> Dan Abelson 
>> St Paul, MN
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Pesce]

I would LOVE if Riv could use their clout with Nitto to get them to make a 
removable faceplate quill stem. The bar (un)wrapping (and inevitable 
scratching) with quill stems is the one thing I dislike about them. I know 
there are or have been some versions of this out there, but none with Nitto 
quality as I recall.

-Pete in CT

On Friday, September 7, 2012 1:10:18 PM UTC-4, Dan wrote:
>
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but 
> if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
> much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
> headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
> to adjust them. 
>
> Dan Abelson 
> St Paul, MN
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Matthew J]

Bruce Gordon, among others, will make an open faced quill stem on request.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 12:10:18 PM UTC-5, Dan wrote:

> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but 
> if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
> much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
> headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like 
> being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes 
> on my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how 
> to adjust them. 
>
> Dan Abelson 
> St Paul, MN
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Seth Vidal]

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
 wrote:
> The threaded-threadless converter quills are a solution to bar/stem
> compatibility issues in theory, but usually they're pretty short, which
> makes for very limited upward height adjustability. Maybe some are taller
> than others? I doubt any have a 200-ish mm quill like a taller Nitto quill
> stem, but I'm not super knowledgeable about these.
>

http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/high-rider-stem-adapter-28-622-2

That's incredibly tall.

The VO one is just normal nitto deluxe height.


-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

The threaded-threadless converter quills are a solution to bar/stem 
compatibility issues in theory, but usually they're pretty short, which 
makes for very limited upward height adjustability. Maybe some are taller 
than others? I doubt any have a 200-ish mm quill like a taller Nitto quill 
stem, but I'm not super knowledgeable about these.

More threadless bikes are coming with uncut forks now, which is nice. A lot 
of times manufacturers cut them too short, or the bike mechanic who 
assembles it cuts it too short, and then you're stuck (unless you get a new 
uncut fork or one of those extenders). But if the steerer is long enough, 
say 100-150 mm over the top of the top tube (which may be slightly 
upsloping for even more height), you've got a lot of usable room for 
adjustment of handlebar height. My Curt Goodrich custom has a smart 
approach. The headtube extends approx 45 mm above the top of the top tube, 
which upslopes slightly (but less than a Hillborne). Add another 10 or so 
mm for headset cup, and, 25-40 mm in spacers along with the stem, and I get 
the bars at or above saddle height with +/- 20 mm adjustability without the 
super tall stack of spacers that may be considered unsightly by some. It 
looks good to me, and gives me all the threadless benefits without looking 
awkward or having the bars too low.

On Friday, September 7, 2012 12:14:01 PM UTC-5, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Dan Abelson > 
> wrote: 
> > I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love 
> but if 
> > I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a 
> much 
> > wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the 
> headset, 
> > and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being 
> able to 
> > remove the bars without unwrapping the tape. 
> > 
>
> Wider variety of handlebar choices? quill stems don't limit you there. 
>
> Get one of the nitto or VO threaded->threadless quills and then use 
> whatever you want. 
>
> Then you get selection of handlebars, poptop stems AND you can move up 
> and down as much as you want. 
>
> That's the versatility of threaded, imo. You can't do that with 
> threadless, you're just stuck. 
>
> -sv 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Mather]

Just so everyone knows, the threadless barrier at Riv was broken by
some but not all Legolas'. Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/6922766182/in/pool-legolas
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20986098@N04/6773347072/in/pool-legolas/

The Roadeo is also offered with either:
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-roadeo.htm

jim m
wc ca

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Dan Abelson  wrote:
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but if
> I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a much
> wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the headset,
> and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being able to
> remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>
> I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes on
> my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how to
> adjust them.
>
> Dan Abelson
> St Paul, MN
>
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Seth Vidal]

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:10 PM, Dan Abelson  wrote:
> I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but if
> I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a much
> wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the headset,
> and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like being able to
> remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.
>

Wider variety of handlebar choices? quill stems don't limit you there.

Get one of the nitto or VO threaded->threadless quills and then use
whatever you want.

Then you get selection of handlebars, poptop stems AND you can move up
and down as much as you want.

That's the versatility of threaded, imo. You can't do that with
threadless, you're just stuck.

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dan Abelson]

I am with Jim on the threadless headsets. I have two rivs that I love but
if I could change one thing it would be to go threadless. It would offer a
much wider variety of handlebar choices, I find it easier to adjust the
headset, and it is stiffer, and more headsets are available, and I like
being able to remove the bars without unwrapping the tape.

I am relatively new to disc brakes, but I like the mechanical bb7 brakes on
my surly troll a lot especially now that I am finally figuring out how to
adjust them.

Dan Abelson
St Paul, MN

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jeremy Till]

I agree that the product line can be somewhat confusing, but it makes sense 
if you think of it as two separate lines (lower-cost and fancy), each with 
three models varying from road-y to offroad-y:

Low cost: San Marcos-- Hillborne-- Hunqapillar
Fancy: Roadeo-- Homer-- Bombadil

And then there are two unique models which don't fit quite into either: 
Betty Foy and Atlantis, although you could argue that the Atlantis would 
slot into the fancy line-up between Homer and Bombadil.  I think it's just 
there because it's a "forever" bike that Riv would never want to stop 
production of.  

Now, it's my belief that this is the intention of the current lineup, but 
because juggling production timing can be difficult (and hence sometimes 
they even need to source the lower-cost frames from Waterford), and because 
a lot of people still opt for the good parts on the cheaper frames (has 
anybody really gone for the microshift option?), both lines end up being 
much closer in cost than was probably the original intention.  

I would agree that adding disc brakes and threadless headsets would 
instantly make Rivendells palatable to a much wider set of riders, but 
Rivendell only exists because they've been making a stand for years against 
the prevailing market trends, and part of that is not just making the bikes 
but putting in the time and effort to educate people about the choices that 
go into a Rivendell bike, and in that sense to create their own market.  
Hence the old readers, the old print catalog, the current 
bulkier-than-average copy for each and every product on the webpage, the 
Blug, and of course, Just Ride.  And why people like us sit around and 
spend hours discussing these bikes.  I say stick to their guns and continue 
the model that's brought them this far. 


On Thursday, September 6, 2012 11:39:47 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> I agree that quill stems are a niche that Riv fills, more or less 
> exclusively, which is no small thing. Obviously, the quill stem has a 
> modest-sized but loyal following, and Grant would be smart to keep filling 
> this niche, as long as it exists, all by himself.
>
> On the other hand, think about demographics. I'm 35 - most cyclists my age 
> or younger have little or no nostalgia for quill stems and threaded 
> steerers, and, in fact, may think a quill looks funny or archaic compared 
> to more familiar threadless systems. If you're over 50, then you probably 
> came of age as a cyclist in the quill stem era, and are not planning to 
> change. But if you're over 50, your bike purchases are likely to slow down 
> in the next 10-20 years, if they haven't already, while people my age and 
> younger are just ramping up the new bike spending. Obviously, this is loose 
> speculation, and individual situations vary. But I think it's safe to say 
> that the number of people who prefer quill stems, and are willing to pay 
> extra to get a frame that takes a quill stem, is shrinking, not 
> growing/stabilizing. I have no stats to back this up, just a limited view 
> from my own knothole. 
>
> Of course, Riv already makes a bunch of frame models that take a quill 
> stem. If one frame model out of eight stepped outside the lines a bit, in 
> the interest of cutting costs, making the frame sturdier without a double 
> top tube, and being more accommodating to a much wider variety of 
> contemporary stems, bars, and headsets (more versatility!), I imagine that 
> the result would be broader appeal and new customers. That particular model 
> with the (for example) disc tabs and 1-1/8" threadless steerer might not be 
> the "retro-grouch"  ideal of many on this discussion board, but there are 
> lots of other options for the purists. And there's no reason whatsoever 
> that such a frame couldn't adhere to underlying principles, like good 
> tire/fender clearance, higher handlebars (it can be done with good design 
> in a non-ugly way), and, of course, lovely lugged steel with a cool 
> paintjob.
>
> I started following Riv when there were basically two models: the heavy 
> duty Atlantis, and the lightweight Rambouillet/Romulus/Redwood. It seemed 
> easy to distinguish the two, and I had one of each for awhile. I have 
> enjoyed seeing the proliferation of new models, but frankly, it starts to 
> get a little bewildering to me - imagine how the casual observer must feel 
> when trying to make sense of it! The Hillborne was supposed to be a halfway 
> compromise of the Atlantis and the Hilsen, I think, but those two models 
> weren't altogether dissimilar in terms of tire clearance and general 
> capabilities (the Hilsen moniker replaced the Saluki which was billed as 
> partway between Atlantis and Rambouillet). The Bombadil is the new 
> heavy-duty workhorse offroader (which was the Atlantis role, previously), 
> but the Hunqapillar splits the difference between that and the Atlantis. Do 
> I have that right? How much difference is there to split? There ha

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[islaysteve]

Jim, I appreciate your comments and would definitely not ask you to put a 
cork in it!  Thank you for sharing your thoughts as a long-time Riv 
owner/rider and a bicycle dealer.  I agree with your logic, and share some 
of your bewilderment at the current Riv product line.  I wouldn't buy the 
threadless version of a Riv, but then I fit right into the demographic that 
you describe (the slowing-down one).  Keep the comments coming.  Cheers, 
Steve

On Friday, September 7, 2012 2:39:47 AM UTC-4, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
>
> I agree that quill stems are a niche that Riv fills, more or less 
> exclusively, which is no small thing. Obviously, the quill stem has a 
> modest-sized but loyal following, and Grant would be smart to keep filling 
> this niche, as long as it exists, all by himself.
>
> On the other hand, think about demographics. I'm 35 - most cyclists my age 
> or younger have little or no nostalgia for quill stems and threaded 
> steerers, and, in fact, may think a quill looks funny or archaic compared 
> to more familiar threadless systems. If you're over 50, then you probably 
> came of age as a cyclist in the quill stem era, and are not planning to 
> change. But if you're over 50, your bike purchases are likely to slow down 
> in the next 10-20 years, if they haven't already, while people my age and 
> younger are just ramping up the new bike spending. Obviously, this is loose 
> speculation, and individual situations vary. But I think it's safe to say 
> that the number of people who prefer quill stems, and are willing to pay 
> extra to get a frame that takes a quill stem, is shrinking, not 
> growing/stabilizing. I have no stats to back this up, just a limited view 
> from my own knothole. 
>
> Of course, Riv already makes a bunch of frame models that take a quill 
> stem. If one frame model out of eight stepped outside the lines a bit, in 
> the interest of cutting costs, making the frame sturdier without a double 
> top tube, and being more accommodating to a much wider variety of 
> contemporary stems, bars, and headsets (more versatility!), I imagine that 
> the result would be broader appeal and new customers. That particular model 
> with the (for example) disc tabs and 1-1/8" threadless steerer might not be 
> the "retro-grouch"  ideal of many on this discussion board, but there are 
> lots of other options for the purists. And there's no reason whatsoever 
> that such a frame couldn't adhere to underlying principles, like good 
> tire/fender clearance, higher handlebars (it can be done with good design 
> in a non-ugly way), and, of course, lovely lugged steel with a cool 
> paintjob.
>
> I started following Riv when there were basically two models: the heavy 
> duty Atlantis, and the lightweight Rambouillet/Romulus/Redwood. It seemed 
> easy to distinguish the two, and I had one of each for awhile. I have 
> enjoyed seeing the proliferation of new models, but frankly, it starts to 
> get a little bewildering to me - imagine how the casual observer must feel 
> when trying to make sense of it! The Hillborne was supposed to be a halfway 
> compromise of the Atlantis and the Hilsen, I think, but those two models 
> weren't altogether dissimilar in terms of tire clearance and general 
> capabilities (the Hilsen moniker replaced the Saluki which was billed as 
> partway between Atlantis and Rambouillet). The Bombadil is the new 
> heavy-duty workhorse offroader (which was the Atlantis role, previously), 
> but the Hunqapillar splits the difference between that and the Atlantis. Do 
> I have that right? How much difference is there to split? There have been 
> discussions of what sets the Roadeo apart from the Hilsen, but it seems the 
> differences are minor. It gets hard to see where one model stops and the 
> next begins. Now to add yet another heavy-duty touring bike to the mix? Is 
> there really a hungry market for a slightly less fancy version of the 
> Hunqapillar that won't cannibalize Hunqapillar sales? Or should this new 
> "budget" model be a substantially different bike that reaches out to a 
> whole new crowd without competing with existing models?
>
> I'm sorry for rambling about all this. Sometimes it rubs people the wrong 
> way that I say stuff that isn't 100% Riv cheerleading (I've been told by 
> two other list participants to put a cork in it over the years), but I'm 
> not trying to damage Riv or criticize anybody for liking what he or she 
> likes. I enjoy the sharing of different ideas. Amazing that there's so much 
> to discuss (ad nauseum) about these machines!
>
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>>
>> It may be a cost saver as you suspect, but I hope they never go that 
>> route. 
>> I value the easy upping and downing of a quill stem, and not being 
>> bound to earlier choices by having cut a threadless steerer tube. 
>> Threaded forks and quill stems are one of the differentiators that 
>> make RBW a company I am glad 

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[charlie]

I think the new heavy duty tour bike will be priced in that $1000 range 
(frame only) and so will sell quite well. I also think the Taiwan frames 
are working and make it possible to basically re-create the entire line for 
half what Japanese or American costs will allow. I for one would be 
interested in something that can essentially replace my tigged touring 
frame that while decent, isn't lugged but I don't want to spend $1875 - 
$3000 for it if I can get something comparable for half. While I have some 
interest in disc brakes (mechanical) because of where I live (Pacific 
Northwest) I don't think I'd want them on a Rivendell nor would a non quill 
stem excite me. The quill stem is a major feature of a Rivendell allowing 
much more options with fit and is precisely why I ended up with two 
currently. The younger generation is coming up and they need to be schooled 
on the benefits of doing it the Rivendell way.  

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>  
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I agree that quill stems are a niche that Riv fills, more or less 
exclusively, which is no small thing. Obviously, the quill stem has a 
modest-sized but loyal following, and Grant would be smart to keep filling 
this niche, as long as it exists, all by himself.

On the other hand, think about demographics. I'm 35 - most cyclists my age 
or younger have little or no nostalgia for quill stems and threaded 
steerers, and, in fact, may think a quill looks funny or archaic compared 
to more familiar threadless systems. If you're over 50, then you probably 
came of age as a cyclist in the quill stem era, and are not planning to 
change. But if you're over 50, your bike purchases are likely to slow down 
in the next 10-20 years, if they haven't already, while people my age and 
younger are just ramping up the new bike spending. Obviously, this is loose 
speculation, and individual situations vary. But I think it's safe to say 
that the number of people who prefer quill stems, and are willing to pay 
extra to get a frame that takes a quill stem, is shrinking, not 
growing/stabilizing. I have no stats to back this up, just a limited view 
from my own knothole. 

Of course, Riv already makes a bunch of frame models that take a quill 
stem. If one frame model out of eight stepped outside the lines a bit, in 
the interest of cutting costs, making the frame sturdier without a double 
top tube, and being more accommodating to a much wider variety of 
contemporary stems, bars, and headsets (more versatility!), I imagine that 
the result would be broader appeal and new customers. That particular model 
with the (for example) disc tabs and 1-1/8" threadless steerer might not be 
the "retro-grouch"  ideal of many on this discussion board, but there are 
lots of other options for the purists. And there's no reason whatsoever 
that such a frame couldn't adhere to underlying principles, like good 
tire/fender clearance, higher handlebars (it can be done with good design 
in a non-ugly way), and, of course, lovely lugged steel with a cool 
paintjob.

I started following Riv when there were basically two models: the heavy 
duty Atlantis, and the lightweight Rambouillet/Romulus/Redwood. It seemed 
easy to distinguish the two, and I had one of each for awhile. I have 
enjoyed seeing the proliferation of new models, but frankly, it starts to 
get a little bewildering to me - imagine how the casual observer must feel 
when trying to make sense of it! The Hillborne was supposed to be a halfway 
compromise of the Atlantis and the Hilsen, I think, but those two models 
weren't altogether dissimilar in terms of tire clearance and general 
capabilities (the Hilsen moniker replaced the Saluki which was billed as 
partway between Atlantis and Rambouillet). The Bombadil is the new 
heavy-duty workhorse offroader (which was the Atlantis role, previously), 
but the Hunqapillar splits the difference between that and the Atlantis. Do 
I have that right? How much difference is there to split? There have been 
discussions of what sets the Roadeo apart from the Hilsen, but it seems the 
differences are minor. It gets hard to see where one model stops and the 
next begins. Now to add yet another heavy-duty touring bike to the mix? Is 
there really a hungry market for a slightly less fancy version of the 
Hunqapillar that won't cannibalize Hunqapillar sales? Or should this new 
"budget" model be a substantially different bike that reaches out to a 
whole new crowd without competing with existing models?

I'm sorry for rambling about all this. Sometimes it rubs people the wrong 
way that I say stuff that isn't 100% Riv cheerleading (I've been told by 
two other list participants to put a cork in it over the years), but I'm 
not trying to damage Riv or criticize anybody for liking what he or she 
likes. I enjoy the sharing of different ideas. Amazing that there's so much 
to discuss (ad nauseum) about these machines!


On Thursday, September 6, 2012 7:25:54 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>
> It may be a cost saver as you suspect, but I hope they never go that 
> route. 
> I value the easy upping and downing of a quill stem, and not being 
> bound to earlier choices by having cut a threadless steerer tube. 
> Threaded forks and quill stems are one of the differentiators that 
> make RBW a company I am glad is in business. 
> Other companies are already making good bikes at lower price points, 
> so if you want to choose a bike made with some more economical methods 
> (e.g. threadless, tig welded, ...) choose one of them and be happy. 
> (naturally we are overlooking the threadless option on the Rodeo, 
> which seems to be a rare concession to gram counters, inner racer 
> aversion to otherness, and broader selection of available stems) 
>
> I don't mean to be scolding. I just like what RBW does, and I would 
> rather they stay with it than get more like other companies. 
>
> On Sep 6, 4:45 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery  
> wrote: 
> > I have been scolded f

Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Reid]

Oops, yes. Just dreaming of what fits my needs! Certainly the 
less-expensive "heavy duty tour bike" that started this thread would be a 
great addition. I'm just thinking that for us bantam weights, a low cost 
replacement for the Romulus would be so easy to do, seeing as how the San 
Marcos already exists. Basically no development costs. Back to my dreams.
 
Reid

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 4:04:32 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:

> I think the San Marcos is a great idea and a great looking bike but Grant 
> has emphasized that it's a light framed road bike.  I'm a super clydesdale 
> and need something a bit stouter and currently, Rivendell doesn't have a 
> budget bike for folks like me.  I'm hoping this new bike rectifies that.  
>  
>
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:31:07 PM UTC-5, Reid wrote:
>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 8:39:41 PM UTC-7, Tony Lockhart wrote: 
>>>
>>> ... you can find a San Marcos in the low $700's. So, I'll cross my 
>>> fingers that Riv puts out a frame around that price point.
>>
>>  
>> Yes, I'm a Riv snob. I want a Riv name on the bike, so just come up with 
>> a name and headbadge for a Riv-branded San Marcos and there's a low cost 
>> solution.
>>  
>> Reid
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Michael_S]

Doug, I've ridden the BB7 road cable disc and a bunch of hydraulics in my 
time. For technical downhill rides on a suspended bike the hydraulics are 
worth every penny. I would never ever build a rigid bike with cable discs 
as they don't offer any real advantage and many disadvantages. ( 
weight/complexity). 

Grant knows his niche, and it's not disc brakes.  It's steel, nice lugs, 
fat tires, cool paint jobs and a threaded headset. I would expect him to 
follow that guideline. Most of us in this group are here exactly because of 
those attributes.

~mike
Carlsbad Ca.




>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[William]

" I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most 
obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from 
threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all"

Remember that's not quite as helpful for Rivs because Rivs come with 
different wheel sizes.  For example, if Betty Foy had a threadless fork, 
we'd go from 4 sizes to 3.  Not that big a help.  Sam would go from 5 to 2, 
so that maybe would help some.  The high end frames are made to order 
anyway.  

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 4:45:47 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:
>
> I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most 
> obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from 
> threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all frames. 
> With threaded, each frame size takes a different fork. This means extra 
> forks must be stocked in each size for warranty replacements, etc, plus, I 
> assume, making 4 or 5 different forks in smaller quantities is more 
> expensive than making one fork in a larger quantity. Obviously, I don't 
> know how the threaded-fork penalty compares to the other costs in frame 
> production, but I wouldn't be surprised if it adds $100+ to each frameset 
> at the retail level. I don't have experience with 2TT or diagonal tube 
> frames, but I do have experience to suggest a 1-1/8" threadless system 
> feels MUCH sturdier under load than does a bike with a 1" threaded system 
> on otherwise similar frames.
>
> As for disc brakes, I prefer the way hydraulics feel and self-adjust, but 
> sometimes sacrificing the drop bar is too much, so I go mechanical. The 
> good ones all work, when set up properly.
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:29:35 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>>
>> This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...".  I realize 
>> it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could 
>> impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways 
>> to hang on racks & fenders.  However, I heard Dave Moulton speak 
>> (years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point 
>> that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost 
>> for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand & 
>> racers don't.  More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising 
>> amount. 
>>
>> If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be 
>> on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil.  I've only ridden 
>> disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed.  My Atlantis 
>> now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but 
>> would go for a disc brake option.  Braking changes a lot when you load 
>> up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills. 
>>
>> Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year, 
>> so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of 
>> hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer 
>> discs.  In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big 
>> Thing. 
>>
>> dougP 
>>
>> On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery  
>> wrote: 
>> > It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for 
>> > discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for 
>> ANY of 
>> > the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of 
>> > people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't 
>> > included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I 
>> see 
>> > the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the 
>> > ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century 
>> bicycle-centric 
>> > life. 
>> > 
>> > IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH 
>> > cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a 
>> prettier 
>> > functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would 
>> broaden 
>> > the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic 
>> stylings 
>> > and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of 
>> parts 
>> > mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro 
>> > connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never 
>> use 
>> > in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll 
>> embrace 
>> > the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of 
>> versatility", 
>> > by the way. 
>> > 
>> > I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some 
>> concession 
>> > to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line, 
>> would 
>> > seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have 
>> > another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly 
>> limited 
>> > pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar, 
>> Bombadil, 
>> > Hillborne, 

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[ted]

It may be a cost saver as you suspect, but I hope they never go that
route.
I value the easy upping and downing of a quill stem, and not being
bound to earlier choices by having cut a threadless steerer tube.
Threaded forks and quill stems are one of the differentiators that
make RBW a company I am glad is in business.
Other companies are already making good bikes at lower price points,
so if you want to choose a bike made with some more economical methods
(e.g. threadless, tig welded, ...) choose one of them and be happy.
(naturally we are overlooking the threadless option on the Rodeo,
which seems to be a rare concession to gram counters, inner racer
aversion to otherness, and broader selection of available stems)

I don't mean to be scolding. I just like what RBW does, and I would
rather they stay with it than get more like other companies.

On Sep 6, 4:45 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
> I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most
> obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from
> threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all frames.
> With threaded, each frame size takes a different fork. This means extra
> forks must be stocked in each size for warranty replacements, etc, plus, I
> assume, making 4 or 5 different forks in smaller quantities is more
> expensive than making one fork in a larger quantity. Obviously, I don't
> know how the threaded-fork penalty compares to the other costs in frame
> production, but I wouldn't be surprised if it adds $100+ to each frameset
> at the retail level. I don't have experience with 2TT or diagonal tube
> frames, but I do have experience to suggest a 1-1/8" threadless system
> feels MUCH sturdier under load than does a bike with a 1" threaded system
> on otherwise similar frames.
>
> As for disc brakes, I prefer the way hydraulics feel and self-adjust, but
> sometimes sacrificing the drop bar is too much, so I go mechanical. The
> good ones all work, when set up properly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:29:35 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>
> > This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...".  I realize
> > it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could
> > impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways
> > to hang on racks & fenders.  However, I heard Dave Moulton speak
> > (years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point
> > that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost
> > for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand &
> > racers don't.  More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising
> > amount.
>
> > If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be
> > on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil.  I've only ridden
> > disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed.  My Atlantis
> > now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but
> > would go for a disc brake option.  Braking changes a lot when you load
> > up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills.
>
> > Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year,
> > so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of
> > hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer
> > discs.  In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big
> > Thing.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
> > wrote:
> > > It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for
> > > discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for ANY
> > of
> > > the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of
> > > people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't
> > > included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I
> > see
> > > the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the
> > > ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century
> > bicycle-centric
> > > life.
>
> > > IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH
> > > cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a
> > prettier
> > > functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would
> > broaden
> > > the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic
> > stylings
> > > and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of
> > parts
> > > mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro
> > > connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never
> > use
> > > in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll
> > embrace
> > > the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of
> > versatility",
> > > by the way.
>
> > > I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some
> > concession
> > > to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the

Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Threadless forks are ugly IMO and once they are cut cannot be adjusted.
With an allen wrench I can re-adjust my setup as many times as I want,
worth a hundred bucks over the life of a bike.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <
thill@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most
> obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from
> threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all frames.
> With threaded, each frame size takes a different fork. This means extra
> forks must be stocked in each size for warranty replacements, etc, plus, I
> assume, making 4 or 5 different forks in smaller quantities is more
> expensive than making one fork in a larger quantity. Obviously, I don't
> know how the threaded-fork penalty compares to the other costs in frame
> production, but I wouldn't be surprised if it adds $100+ to each frameset
> at the retail level. I don't have experience with 2TT or diagonal tube
> frames, but I do have experience to suggest a 1-1/8" threadless system
> feels MUCH sturdier under load than does a bike with a 1" threaded system
> on otherwise similar frames.
>
> As for disc brakes, I prefer the way hydraulics feel and self-adjust, but
> sometimes sacrificing the drop bar is too much, so I go mechanical. The
> good ones all work, when set up properly.
>
>
> On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:29:35 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>>
>> This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...".  I realize
>> it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could
>> impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways
>> to hang on racks & fenders.  However, I heard Dave Moulton speak
>> (years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point
>> that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost
>> for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand &
>> racers don't.  More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising
>> amount.
>>
>> If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be
>> on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil.  I've only ridden
>> disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed.  My Atlantis
>> now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but
>> would go for a disc brake option.  Braking changes a lot when you load
>> up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills.
>>
>> Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year,
>> so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of
>> hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer
>> discs.  In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big
>> Thing.
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
>> wrote:
>> > It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for
>> > discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for
>> ANY of
>> > the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of
>> > people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't
>> > included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I
>> see
>> > the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the
>> > ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century
>> bicycle-centric
>> > life.
>> >
>> > IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH
>> > cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a
>> prettier
>> > functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would
>> broaden
>> > the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic
>> stylings
>> > and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of
>> parts
>> > mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro
>> > connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never
>> use
>> > in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll
>> embrace
>> > the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of
>> versatility",
>> > by the way.
>> >
>> > I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some
>> concession
>> > to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line,
>> would
>> > seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have
>> > another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly
>> limited
>> > pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar,
>> Bombadil,
>> > Hillborne, etc. Something as simple as disc tabs would be a standout
>> among
>> > the excellent, but overlapping frames that are already available, and
>> > would, I think, make a splash among a whole new pool of potential
>> customers.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:04:45 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>> >
>> > > Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be
>> heavier
>> 

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most 
obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from 
threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all frames. 
With threaded, each frame size takes a different fork. This means extra 
forks must be stocked in each size for warranty replacements, etc, plus, I 
assume, making 4 or 5 different forks in smaller quantities is more 
expensive than making one fork in a larger quantity. Obviously, I don't 
know how the threaded-fork penalty compares to the other costs in frame 
production, but I wouldn't be surprised if it adds $100+ to each frameset 
at the retail level. I don't have experience with 2TT or diagonal tube 
frames, but I do have experience to suggest a 1-1/8" threadless system 
feels MUCH sturdier under load than does a bike with a 1" threaded system 
on otherwise similar frames.

As for disc brakes, I prefer the way hydraulics feel and self-adjust, but 
sometimes sacrificing the drop bar is too much, so I go mechanical. The 
good ones all work, when set up properly.

On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:29:35 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote:
>
> This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...".  I realize 
> it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could 
> impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways 
> to hang on racks & fenders.  However, I heard Dave Moulton speak 
> (years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point 
> that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost 
> for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand & 
> racers don't.  More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising 
> amount. 
>
> If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be 
> on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil.  I've only ridden 
> disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed.  My Atlantis 
> now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but 
> would go for a disc brake option.  Braking changes a lot when you load 
> up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills. 
>
> Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year, 
> so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of 
> hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer 
> discs.  In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big 
> Thing. 
>
> dougP 
>
> On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery  
> wrote: 
> > It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for 
> > discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for ANY 
> of 
> > the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of 
> > people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't 
> > included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I 
> see 
> > the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the 
> > ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century 
> bicycle-centric 
> > life. 
> > 
> > IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH 
> > cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a 
> prettier 
> > functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would 
> broaden 
> > the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic 
> stylings 
> > and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of 
> parts 
> > mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro 
> > connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never 
> use 
> > in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll 
> embrace 
> > the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of 
> versatility", 
> > by the way. 
> > 
> > I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some 
> concession 
> > to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line, would 
> > seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have 
> > another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly 
> limited 
> > pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar, 
> Bombadil, 
> > Hillborne, etc. Something as simple as disc tabs would be a standout 
> among 
> > the excellent, but overlapping frames that are already available, and 
> > would, I think, make a splash among a whole new pool of potential 
> customers. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:04:45 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: 
> > 
> > > Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be 
> heavier 
> > > than the upmarket Rivs, discs will mean extra weight and expense with 
> > > little benefit for most riders. 
> > 
> > > Most people ride on pavement or hard pack trails and then usually when 
> the 
> > > weather is fine.  In those conditions, decent rim brakes provide all 
> the 
> > > stopping power any ride

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[dougP]

This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...".  I realize
it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could
impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways
to hang on racks & fenders.  However, I heard Dave Moulton speak
(years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point
that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost
for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand &
racers don't.  More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising
amount.

If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be
on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil.  I've only ridden
disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed.  My Atlantis
now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but
would go for a disc brake option.  Braking changes a lot when you load
up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills.

Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year,
so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of
hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer
discs.  In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big
Thing.

dougP

On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery 
wrote:
> It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for
> discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for ANY of
> the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of
> people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't
> included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I see
> the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the
> ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century bicycle-centric
> life.
>
> IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH
> cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a prettier
> functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would broaden
> the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic stylings
> and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of parts
> mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro
> connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never use
> in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll embrace
> the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of versatility",
> by the way.
>
> I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some concession
> to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line, would
> seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have
> another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly limited
> pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar, Bombadil,
> Hillborne, etc. Something as simple as disc tabs would be a standout among
> the excellent, but overlapping frames that are already available, and
> would, I think, make a splash among a whole new pool of potential customers.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:04:45 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>
> > Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be heavier
> > than the upmarket Rivs, discs will mean extra weight and expense with
> > little benefit for most riders.
>
> > Most people ride on pavement or hard pack trails and then usually when the
> > weather is fine.  In those conditions, decent rim brakes provide all the
> > stopping power any rider will ever need. Some ride on pavement in inclement
> > weather where discs have some advantages over rims.  But not so much that
> > there is a screaming need for discs.
>
> > Discs are markedly better off road and on long distance adventure
> > touring.  Neither Riv's niche.
>
> > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:42:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha
> > Cyclery wrote:
>
> >> It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing specific
> >> to a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different than on
> >> a frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike for disc
> >> brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for any of
> >> us to be forced into one type of brake or another.
>
> >> I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid
> >> hydraulics for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single problem
> >> with them. They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and never
> >> seem to make any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using
> >> hydraulic brakes does limit brake lever options. Think of the hydraulic
> >> brake/lever as a single unit, rather than the mix and match experience of
> >> cable-actuated systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I realize.
>
> >> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> >>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding b

Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Chris Lampe]

I think the San Marcos is a great idea and a great looking bike but Grant 
has emphasized that it's a light framed road bike.  I'm a super clydesdale 
and need something a bit stouter and currently, Rivendell doesn't have a 
budget bike for folks like me.  I'm hoping this new bike rectifies that.  
 

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 9:31:07 PM UTC-5, Reid wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 8:39:41 PM UTC-7, Tony Lockhart wrote: 
>>
>> ... you can find a San Marcos in the low $700's. So, I'll cross my 
>> fingers that Riv puts out a frame around that price point.
>
>  
> Yes, I'm a Riv snob. I want a Riv name on the bike, so just come up with a 
> name and headbadge for a Riv-branded San Marcos and there's a low cost 
> solution.
>  
> Reid
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Paul]

Here's the quotes about the TIG welding thoughts in Yosemite and the cheap 
ugly bike. I found 'em in the Urban Velo post linked from the blug:

*Do you ever think of building cheap TIG-welded mass-market bikes?*

I think of it a lot. I thought of when I was in Yosemite on vacation. That 
should drive home the point. But a good idea isn’t always a good idea. 
Ideas have tentacles, they affect and are affected by other things outside 
the main idea, and those things aren’t always obvious. If you could take 
some of our bike models, fold your arms and blink your eyes like Jeanie, 
and turn it into a TIG-welded bike with thick, seamed, straight-gauge CrMo 
steel tubing; you’d have a heck of a cheap, functional bike. But if we did 
that and they became immensely popular, we’d have tons of competition the 
next year, and that competition could smother us. We don’t source from 
China, but that kind of bike could be, and suddenly we’re just an also-ran, 
an after thought.

*What about building a bike that is a bit more theft resistant?*

I still have a plan for a cheaper bike for riding in bike thefty areas. 
Everybody at Rivendell knows about our “cheap bike project.” The idea is to 
have a super ugly bike with a few manufacturing shortcuts, it would come 
primered, but not painted. You’d assemble it and then paint it, and not 
worry about overspray on the rims and tires. Each bike would look already 
stolen, and could have a unique paint job that made a real thief reluctant 
to take it, because it would be so identifiable.

http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue32/p76-77.html


Paul 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Mather]

I'm not the Jim you asked, but I'll chime in anyway. I've used both
mechanical and hydraulic. I thought the mechanical were quite easy to set
up (so I don't have any secrets, I just followed the instructions), and I
thought they stopped as well as a good v-brake. But when it comes to
stopping power, hydraulics have way more than any v- or canti. There are
really steep fire roads and trails around Mt. Diablo where I ride, and
there are plenty of steep pitches where Paul cantis only slow me down, but
my 200mm front hydraulic can bring me to a short, well modulated stop. I
weigh 220, and that makes a difference in stopping requirements, but the
hydraulics add a level of confidence that no mechanical brake can. Of
course, some times it's fun to test my limits, which is why I ride both
kinds of brakes.

I hope the new Riv can take discs too.

jim m
wc ca

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:35 PM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> Jim -- curious if, when saying you like hydraulics, whether that means you
> don't particularly like mechanicals; and if so, why not. I've used older
> Avid BB7 mechanicals, both road and mountain versions. The road version was
> useless even with absolutely unflexing housing (this was special stuff that
> was wound like indexing shifter cable housing -- meant for brakes) and 180
> mm discs. The mountain version seems to work well enough: easy to set up,
> powerful is the housing is not flexy (I find that the front is fine, not as
> good as Vs but perfectly adequate; the rear, with five feet of bulk
> housing, not so good); modulation is adequate but not great; and that disks
> bend easily and annoyingly. Tektro V brake levers.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[PATRICK MOORE]

Thanks; I am pretty sure you are right to the extent that, ceteris paribus,
good housing = better braking. In fact, on my Fargo the front (shorter
housing: 3' instead of 5') does work better than the rear. You are also
right about compressing the housing -- tho' in the end it comes down to the
same thing: compressing the housing requires pulling the cable, and vv.

Any other ideas, before I invest in expensive housing?

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

> Patrick, I use interrupters on my bombadil with cantis, I am no kind of
> expert on them but will tell you what I found. To the best of my knowledge
> they work by compressing the housing instead of pulling on the cable so if
> you are using too long of a length of housing or cheap housing it might
> just go "smush" instead of feeling crisp like you are looking for.  Not
> sure if this has already been considered but just thought I would throw it
> out there.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Patrick, I use interrupters on my bombadil with cantis, I am no kind of
expert on them but will tell you what I found. To the best of my knowledge
they work by compressing the housing instead of pulling on the cable so if
you are using too long of a length of housing or cheap housing it might
just go "smush" instead of feeling crisp like you are looking for.  Not
sure if this has already been considered but just thought I would throw it
out there.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:42 PM, PATRICK MOORE  wrote:

> But you don't need disks, hydraulic or mechanical, for perfect stopping!
> IME V's are wonderfully strong and IRD cantis are even better, IME (if
> someone besides me sets them up) -- both better than BB7s. IMO, the
> advantages of disks lie elswhere.
>
> Still: a Riv that can take 65 mm tires, fenders and mud, with disks ...
> man, oh man!
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Montclair BobbyB <
> montclairbob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the Peregrine is a cool idea, and very beautiful... a similar Riv
>> version would be even *beautifuler...*
>>
>> The world may not be quite ready for hydraulic disc brakes on drop bar
>> bikes, but that needs to change... Quick stopping ability on a bike is far
>> too important. Shimano makes a fine hydraulic brifter for upright bars, but
>> they need to take this idea a step further and adapt it to drop bars. I run
>> only hydraulic discs on my mountain bikes (strictly for offroad use), but
>> I've also built up 2 Salsa Fargos primarily for road use with hydraulic
>> brifters on (upright) H-bars. The only way to describe them would be 'high
>> performance bliss'... they're simply the best, and they instill confidence
>> with their quick stopping power in all conditions.  I love my cantis and
>> v-brakes, but in truth they're a compromise... they're adequate, but
>> they'll never come close to the performance of hydraulic discs.
>>
>> I don't love my Bomba and S1 any less because they have V-brakes, but if
>> Riv offered a disc version, I'd seriously consider trading up for that.
>>
>> Peace,
>> BB
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:39:45 PM UTC-4, bingomck wrote:
>>>
>>> Montclair Bobby
>>>
>>> Check out the Singular Peregrine if you want an example of a nice
>>> looking, lugged steel disc frame. Pretty affordable too if you can find one
>>> (if I recall only 1 US dealer). No idea how they ride, and I doubt like a
>>> Riv, but good looking.
>>>
>>  --
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>
>
>
> --
> "Believe nothing until it has been officially denied."
>-- Claude Cockburn
>
> -
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> For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[PATRICK MOORE]

But you don't need disks, hydraulic or mechanical, for perfect stopping!
IME V's are wonderfully strong and IRD cantis are even better, IME (if
someone besides me sets them up) -- both better than BB7s. IMO, the
advantages of disks lie elswhere.

Still: a Riv that can take 65 mm tires, fenders and mud, with disks ...
man, oh man!

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Montclair BobbyB  wrote:

> Yeah, the Peregrine is a cool idea, and very beautiful... a similar Riv
> version would be even *beautifuler...*
>
> The world may not be quite ready for hydraulic disc brakes on drop bar
> bikes, but that needs to change... Quick stopping ability on a bike is far
> too important. Shimano makes a fine hydraulic brifter for upright bars, but
> they need to take this idea a step further and adapt it to drop bars. I run
> only hydraulic discs on my mountain bikes (strictly for offroad use), but
> I've also built up 2 Salsa Fargos primarily for road use with hydraulic
> brifters on (upright) H-bars. The only way to describe them would be 'high
> performance bliss'... they're simply the best, and they instill confidence
> with their quick stopping power in all conditions.  I love my cantis and
> v-brakes, but in truth they're a compromise... they're adequate, but
> they'll never come close to the performance of hydraulic discs.
>
> I don't love my Bomba and S1 any less because they have V-brakes, but if
> Riv offered a disc version, I'd seriously consider trading up for that.
>
> Peace,
> BB
>
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:39:45 PM UTC-4, bingomck wrote:
>>
>> Montclair Bobby
>>
>> Check out the Singular Peregrine if you want an example of a nice
>> looking, lugged steel disc frame. Pretty affordable too if you can find one
>> (if I recall only 1 US dealer). No idea how they ride, and I doubt like a
>> Riv, but good looking.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[PATRICK MOORE]

So, the Avid "road" lever mechanical disk is the BB5? At any rate, ascpgh
and so forth (please include name!) confirms my experience that they aren't
worth -- well, pick a noun denominating bulk of little value.

I like disks because I switch between rims of 44 mm and 27 mm outside
width; also, tho' we don't get much rain here, when we do, it combines with
the ominipresent dust and fine sand to make a grinding fluid that will
score your rims very quickly.

Just wish I could figure out how to adjust those Tektro V-brake
interrupters.

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:54 AM, ascpgh  wrote:

> The lever limitations of road discs are the buzz kill; no hydraulic
> options, mechanical options with the V-brake cable pull ratio. The Avid
> BB-5 road is a solution to road brake lever pull, giving Trek the
> capability to put discs on their STI bikes. A close look at the BB-5
> caliper shows how the unit was adapted to be operated by road levers by
> shortening the actuating bell crank at the far end of the cable. That
> resolves the cable movement issues but at an exchange of the force
> necessary for any stopping task. It also limits the range of motion of that
> little crank arm before the mechanical advantage is lost and you have to
> make an adjustment.
>
> For my all-weather commuter I chose the rarer road levers with V-pull
> ratio and Avid BB-7s. I haven't had the opportunity to experiment with all
> kinds of disc brakes but I can say the scariest bike experience I have had
> in decades was a two mile descent of a two lane road in an absolute
> downpour that rendered my rim brakes nearly useless at the end of Bike
> Pittsburgh last month. I wouldn't have set out on the 65mile ride on my
> Rambouillet had it been coming down like that first thing in the morning,
> it just ended up that way and made me imagine that descent on my commuter
> once I was off the Mount Washington.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[PATRICK MOORE]

Jim -- curious if, when saying you like hydraulics, whether that means you
don't particularly like mechanicals; and if so, why not. I've used older
Avid BB7 mechanicals, both road and mountain versions. The road version was
useless even with absolutely unflexing housing (this was special stuff that
was wound like indexing shifter cable housing -- meant for brakes) and 180
mm discs. The mountain version seems to work well enough: easy to set up,
powerful is the housing is not flexy (I find that the front is fine, not as
good as Vs but perfectly adequate; the rear, with five feet of bulk
housing, not so good); modulation is adequate but not great; and that disks
bend easily and annoyingly. Tektro V brake levers.

In short, I wonder if there are tricks to set up mechanicals that I don't
know (and would like to know) or if disks have to be hydraulic to be
excellent. (The one time I tried a neighbor's bike with hydraulics I almost
sent myself over the bar).

Also, if anyone has any tips about setting up Tektro interrupters for V
brakes (these have red knobs that don't seem to accompish anything when you
turn them) I'd be grateful to learn them. While my Tektro drop levers pull
hard before coming anywhere near close to the bar, the interrupters are
spongy and almost bottom out before stopping.

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <
thill@gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing specific
> to a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different than on
> a frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike for disc
> brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for any of
> us to be forced into one type of brake or another.
>
> I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid hydraulics
> for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single problem with them.
> They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and never seem to make
> any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using hydraulic brakes
> does limit brake lever options. Think of the hydraulic brake/lever as a
> single unit, rather than the mix and match experience of cable-actuated
> systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I realize.
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>
>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc
>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older
>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines
>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way
>> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated
>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way
>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable
>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds
>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all
>> kinds of weather!
>>
>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would
>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the
>> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks
>> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a
>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er
>> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but
>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>>
>> Peace,
>> BB
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical
>>> ones.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Matthew J]

>IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH 
cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a prettier 
> functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would 
broaden the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's 
>aesthetic stylings and general approach, but aren't committed to using the 
same types of parts mountain bikers were stuck with 25 >years ago. 
Obviously, the true retro connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc 
brake tabs they'd never use in a million years, but >the scoffers will be 
offset by those who'll embrace the added versatility. I count myself among 
the "embracers of versatility", by the
> way.


A convincing argument.  Versatility is good.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for 
discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for ANY of 
the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of 
people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't 
included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I see 
the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the 
ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century bicycle-centric 
life. 

IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH 
cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a prettier 
functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would broaden 
the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic stylings 
and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of parts 
mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro 
connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never use 
in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll embrace 
the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of versatility", 
by the way.

I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some concession 
to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line, would 
seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have 
another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly limited 
pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar, Bombadil, 
Hillborne, etc. Something as simple as disc tabs would be a standout among 
the excellent, but overlapping frames that are already available, and 
would, I think, make a splash among a whole new pool of potential customers.



On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:04:45 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
>
> Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be heavier 
> than the upmarket Rivs, discs will mean extra weight and expense with 
> little benefit for most riders.
>  
> Most people ride on pavement or hard pack trails and then usually when the 
> weather is fine.  In those conditions, decent rim brakes provide all the 
> stopping power any rider will ever need. Some ride on pavement in inclement 
> weather where discs have some advantages over rims.  But not so much that 
> there is a screaming need for discs.
>  
> Discs are markedly better off road and on long distance adventure 
> touring.  Neither Riv's niche.  
>
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:42:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
> Cyclery wrote:
>
>> It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing specific 
>> to a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different than on 
>> a frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike for disc 
>> brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for any of 
>> us to be forced into one type of brake or another.
>>
>> I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid 
>> hydraulics for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single problem 
>> with them. They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and never 
>> seem to make any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using 
>> hydraulic brakes does limit brake lever options. Think of the hydraulic 
>> brake/lever as a single unit, rather than the mix and match experience of 
>> cable-actuated systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I realize.
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB wrote: 
>>>
>>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
>>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
>>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
>>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
>>> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
>>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
>>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
>>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
>>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
>>> kinds of weather! 
>>>
>>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would 
>>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the 
>>> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks 
>>> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a 
>>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er 
>>> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but 
>>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> BB
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote: 


 I would like it if this bik

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Montclair BobbyB]

Yeah, the Peregrine is a cool idea, and very beautiful... a similar Riv 
version would be even *beautifuler...*

The world may not be quite ready for hydraulic disc brakes on drop bar 
bikes, but that needs to change... Quick stopping ability on a bike is far 
too important. Shimano makes a fine hydraulic brifter for upright bars, but 
they need to take this idea a step further and adapt it to drop bars. I run 
only hydraulic discs on my mountain bikes (strictly for offroad use), but 
I've also built up 2 Salsa Fargos primarily for road use with hydraulic 
brifters on (upright) H-bars. The only way to describe them would be 'high 
performance bliss'... they're simply the best, and they instill confidence 
with their quick stopping power in all conditions.  I love my cantis and 
v-brakes, but in truth they're a compromise... they're adequate, but 
they'll never come close to the performance of hydraulic discs.  

I don't love my Bomba and S1 any less because they have V-brakes, but if 
Riv offered a disc version, I'd seriously consider trading up for that.

Peace,
BB

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:39:45 PM UTC-4, bingomck wrote:
>
> Montclair Bobby
>
> Check out the Singular Peregrine if you want an example of a nice looking, 
> lugged steel disc frame. Pretty affordable too if you can find one (if I 
> recall only 1 US dealer). No idea how they ride, and I doubt like a Riv, 
> but good looking. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[ascpgh]

Whoops, managed "send" before signed;

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[ascpgh]

The lever limitations of road discs are the buzz kill; no hydraulic options, 
mechanical options with the V-brake cable pull ratio. The Avid BB-5 road is a 
solution to road brake lever pull, giving Trek the capability to put discs on 
their STI bikes. A close look at the BB-5 caliper shows how the unit was 
adapted to be operated by road levers by shortening the actuating bell crank at 
the far end of the cable. That resolves the cable movement issues but at an 
exchange of the force necessary for any stopping task. It also limits the range 
of motion of that little crank arm before the mechanical advantage is lost and 
you have to make an adjustment. 

For my all-weather commuter I chose the rarer road levers with V-pull ratio and 
Avid BB-7s. I haven't had the opportunity to experiment with all kinds of disc 
brakes but I can say the scariest bike experience I have had in decades was a 
two mile descent of a two lane road in an absolute downpour that rendered my 
rim brakes nearly useless at the end of Bike Pittsburgh last month. I wouldn't 
have set out on the 65mile ride on my Rambouillet had it been coming down like 
that first thing in the morning, it just ended up that way and made me imagine 
that descent on my commuter once I was off the Mount Washington.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Reid]

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 8:39:41 PM UTC-7, Tony Lockhart wrote: 
>
> ... you can find a San Marcos in the low $700's. So, I'll cross my fingers 
> that Riv puts out a frame around that price point.

 
Yes, I'm a Riv snob. I want a Riv name on the bike, so just come up with a 
name and headbadge for a Riv-branded San Marcos and there's a low cost 
solution.
 
Reid

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Matthew J]

Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be heavier 
than the upmarket Rivs, discs will mean extra weight and expense with 
little benefit for most riders.
 
Most people ride on pavement or hard pack trails and then usually when the 
weather is fine.  In those conditions, decent rim brakes provide all the 
stopping power any rider will ever need. Some ride on pavement in inclement 
weather where discs have some advantages over rims.  But not so much that 
there is a screaming need for discs.
 
Discs are markedly better off road and on long distance adventure touring.  
Neither Riv's niche.  

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:42:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha 
Cyclery wrote:

> It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing specific 
> to a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different than on 
> a frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike for disc 
> brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for any of 
> us to be forced into one type of brake or another.
>
> I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid hydraulics 
> for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single problem with them. 
> They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and never seem to make 
> any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using hydraulic brakes 
> does limit brake lever options. Think of the hydraulic brake/lever as a 
> single unit, rather than the mix and match experience of cable-actuated 
> systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I realize.
>
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB wrote: 
>>
>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
>> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
>> kinds of weather! 
>>
>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would 
>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the 
>> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks 
>> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a 
>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er 
>> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but 
>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>>
>> Peace,
>> BB
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical 
>>> ones. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing specific to 
a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different than on a 
frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike for disc 
brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for any of 
us to be forced into one type of brake or another.

I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid hydraulics 
for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single problem with them. 
They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and never seem to make 
any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using hydraulic brakes 
does limit brake lever options. Think of the hydraulic brake/lever as a 
single unit, rather than the mix and match experience of cable-actuated 
systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I realize.

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
> kinds of weather!
>
> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would 
> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the 
> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks 
> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a 
> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er 
> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but 
> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>
> Peace,
> BB
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>>
>>
>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical 
>> ones. 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Pesce]

Thanks for the correction! Discs aren't really my forte... obviously!

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:18:24 PM UTC-4, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> That's not exactly true.  Unless specifically noted, most cable-actuated 
> disk brakes are set up for long cable pull, the same as v-brakes and are 
> only compatible with long-pull levers.  There are a few short-pull specific 
> calipers, such as a couple of models of the Avid "BB" range that 
> specifically have a "road" version.  I think a couple of other 
> manufacturers (Formula, Tektro) are starting to come out with short-pull 
> road models (those are probably what you're seeing on disc cross bikes), 
> but they are still relatively thin on the ground.  
>
> The current crop of cross and road bikes use cable discs mostly because 
> nobody's come out with a hydraulic drop-bar lever yet, and any of the 
> conversion systems (I've seen one involving cable-actuated master cylinders 
> under the stem) don't quite seem refined enough yet.  However, at Eurobike 
> this past week Colnago was showing off disc road bikes with a hydraulic, 
> electronic brifter (for either Campy EPS or Shimano Di2) they had designed 
> with Formula. 
>
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 7:23:00 AM UTC-7, Peter Pesce wrote:
>>
>> I've never used any disc brakes, so I cant comment on performance, but 
>> one advantage of cable discs is that you can use any normal, standard-pull 
>> brake lever - brifter, mtb, inverse, guidonnet, etc.. This is why the 
>> 'cross and road disc bikes now hitting the shows use mostly cable discs. 
>> This will eventually change, of course, as road discs seem to be the Next 
>> Big Thing that Trekalized will push on the road riding masses, so hydraulic 
>> STI levers cant be too far off. For me, however, part of the Riv ethos is 
>> the idea that you can freely mix and match parts to suit. I've already 
>> messed this up a bit for myself with V-brakes, but at least you can find a 
>> lever that is convertible from short to long pull. Not sure if there is a 
>> lever than can convert from hydraulic to cable.
>>
>> Another HUGE advantage to disc brakes, for the Riv and Bob folks, is you 
>> can use any wheel size your heart desires! As long as the frame has the 
>> right clearances, (and what Riv frame wouldn't?), you could pick 700c, 650b 
>> or even 26 at will. Sure, fender mounting could be tricky, but it's a lot 
>> easier to find fender mounting work-arounds than it is to move canti bosses.
>>
>> -Pete in CT
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:37:17 PM UTC-4, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>>
>>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
>>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
>>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
>>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
>>> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
>>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
>>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
>>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
>>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
>>> kinds of weather!
>>>
>>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would 
>>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the 
>>> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks 
>>> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a 
>>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er 
>>> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but 
>>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> BB
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:


 I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. 
 Mechanical ones. 





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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Hmm, Hydraulic, Electric and Campy make me thinks it most likely cost more
than I paid for my whole Bombadil. I love fiddly things so it sounds up my
alley, personally. I dont really like V-brakes but wasnt the whole point
them that they took little effort to set up and had good power, outside of
single track how much braking power do people need for 90% of the total
useage of the bike? I think Rivendell usually errs on the side of easy to
set up with minimal fiddling. I would hate to be on day 2 of a tour and
have my hydraulic master cylinder fail and have to get a ride to the LBS
for an afternoon of work whereas a snapped/frayed brake cable would take
minutes to replace.
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Jeremy Till  wrote:

> That's not exactly true.  Unless specifically noted, most cable-actuated
> disk brakes are set up for long cable pull, the same as v-brakes and are
> only compatible with long-pull levers.  There are a few short-pull specific
> calipers, such as a couple of models of the Avid "BB" range that
> specifically have a "road" version.  I think a couple of other
> manufacturers (Formula, Tektro) are starting to come out with short-pull
> road models (those are probably what you're seeing on disc cross bikes),
> but they are still relatively thin on the ground.
>
> The current crop of cross and road bikes use cable discs mostly because
> nobody's come out with a hydraulic drop-bar lever yet, and any of the
> conversion systems (I've seen one involving cable-actuated master cylinders
> under the stem) don't quite seem refined enough yet.  However, at Eurobike
> this past week Colnago was showing off disc road bikes with a hydraulic,
> electronic brifter (for either Campy EPS or Shimano Di2) they had designed
> with Formula.
>
> On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 7:23:00 AM UTC-7, Peter Pesce wrote:
>>
>> I've never used any disc brakes, so I cant comment on performance, but
>> one advantage of cable discs is that you can use any normal, standard-pull
>> brake lever - brifter, mtb, inverse, guidonnet, etc.. This is why the
>> 'cross and road disc bikes now hitting the shows use mostly cable discs.
>> This will eventually change, of course, as road discs seem to be the Next
>> Big Thing that Trekalized will push on the road riding masses, so hydraulic
>> STI levers cant be too far off. For me, however, part of the Riv ethos is
>> the idea that you can freely mix and match parts to suit. I've already
>> messed this up a bit for myself with V-brakes, but at least you can find a
>> lever that is convertible from short to long pull. Not sure if there is a
>> lever than can convert from hydraulic to cable.
>>
>> Another HUGE advantage to disc brakes, for the Riv and Bob folks, is you
>> can use any wheel size your heart desires! As long as the frame has the
>> right clearances, (and what Riv frame wouldn't?), you could pick 700c, 650b
>> or even 26 at will. Sure, fender mounting could be tricky, but it's a lot
>> easier to find fender mounting work-arounds than it is to move canti bosses.
>>
>> -Pete in CT
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:37:17 PM UTC-4, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>>
>>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc
>>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older
>>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines
>>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way
>>> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated
>>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way
>>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable
>>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds
>>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all
>>> kinds of weather!
>>>
>>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would
>>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the
>>> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks
>>> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a
>>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er
>>> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but
>>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> BB
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:


 I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes.
 Mechanical ones.



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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jeremy Till]

That's not exactly true.  Unless specifically noted, most cable-actuated 
disk brakes are set up for long cable pull, the same as v-brakes and are 
only compatible with long-pull levers.  There are a few short-pull specific 
calipers, such as a couple of models of the Avid "BB" range that 
specifically have a "road" version.  I think a couple of other 
manufacturers (Formula, Tektro) are starting to come out with short-pull 
road models (those are probably what you're seeing on disc cross bikes), 
but they are still relatively thin on the ground.  

The current crop of cross and road bikes use cable discs mostly because 
nobody's come out with a hydraulic drop-bar lever yet, and any of the 
conversion systems (I've seen one involving cable-actuated master cylinders 
under the stem) don't quite seem refined enough yet.  However, at Eurobike 
this past week Colnago was showing off disc road bikes with a hydraulic, 
electronic brifter (for either Campy EPS or Shimano Di2) they had designed 
with Formula. 

On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 7:23:00 AM UTC-7, Peter Pesce wrote:
>
> I've never used any disc brakes, so I cant comment on performance, but one 
> advantage of cable discs is that you can use any normal, standard-pull 
> brake lever - brifter, mtb, inverse, guidonnet, etc.. This is why the 
> 'cross and road disc bikes now hitting the shows use mostly cable discs. 
> This will eventually change, of course, as road discs seem to be the Next 
> Big Thing that Trekalized will push on the road riding masses, so hydraulic 
> STI levers cant be too far off. For me, however, part of the Riv ethos is 
> the idea that you can freely mix and match parts to suit. I've already 
> messed this up a bit for myself with V-brakes, but at least you can find a 
> lever that is convertible from short to long pull. Not sure if there is a 
> lever than can convert from hydraulic to cable.
>
> Another HUGE advantage to disc brakes, for the Riv and Bob folks, is you 
> can use any wheel size your heart desires! As long as the frame has the 
> right clearances, (and what Riv frame wouldn't?), you could pick 700c, 650b 
> or even 26 at will. Sure, fender mounting could be tricky, but it's a lot 
> easier to find fender mounting work-arounds than it is to move canti bosses.
>
> -Pete in CT
>
> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:37:17 PM UTC-4, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>>
>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
>> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
>> kinds of weather!
>>
>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would 
>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the 
>> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks 
>> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a 
>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er 
>> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but 
>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>>
>> Peace,
>> BB
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical 
>>> ones. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Pesce]

I've never used any disc brakes, so I cant comment on performance, but one 
advantage of cable discs is that you can use any normal, standard-pull 
brake lever - brifter, mtb, inverse, guidonnet, etc.. This is why the 
'cross and road disc bikes now hitting the shows use mostly cable discs. 
This will eventually change, of course, as road discs seem to be the Next 
Big Thing that Trekalized will push on the road riding masses, so hydraulic 
STI levers cant be too far off. For me, however, part of the Riv ethos is 
the idea that you can freely mix and match parts to suit. I've already 
messed this up a bit for myself with V-brakes, but at least you can find a 
lever that is convertible from short to long pull. Not sure if there is a 
lever than can convert from hydraulic to cable.

Another HUGE advantage to disc brakes, for the Riv and Bob folks, is you 
can use any wheel size your heart desires! As long as the frame has the 
right clearances, (and what Riv frame wouldn't?), you could pick 700c, 650b 
or even 26 at will. Sure, fender mounting could be tricky, but it's a lot 
easier to find fender mounting work-arounds than it is to move canti bosses.

-Pete in CT

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 10:37:17 PM UTC-4, Montclair BobbyB wrote:
>
> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
> more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
> kinds of weather!
>
> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would 
> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the 
> fork).  This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks 
> elegant.  Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a 
> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er 
> disc fork (the Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but 
> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.
>
> Peace,
> BB
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>>
>>
>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical 
>> ones. 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[bingomck]

Montclair Bobby

Check out the Singular Peregrine if you want an example of a nice looking, 
lugged steel disc frame. Pretty affordable too if you can find one (if I recall 
only 1 US dealer). No idea how they ride, and I doubt like a Riv, but good 
looking. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Tony Lockhart]

I agree, the Stanyan is around the $700 mark. I'm not sure if anyone else 
has looked around, but you can find a San Marcos in the low $700's. So, 
I'll cross my fingers that Riv puts out a frame around that price point.

Anyone in here familiar with cost-saving strategies with frame building? I 
imagine that tig welding the seat post lug would save quite a bit of time, 
labor, and casting because it'd be easy to bind all of the tubes together. 
I admit that it would be weird to see a partially lugged Riv, however a 
tigged BB shell or seat post lug seems like a quick and dirty way to cut 
costs.

On Monday, September 3, 2012 6:06:05 PM UTC-7, Peter Pesce wrote:
>
> Soma sells their fancy lugged Stanyan for $700 ish, so I'd guess thats 
> about as cheap as lugs can get. Below that youre in a very crowded market. 
> Both Soma and Surly sell very sensible frames at the 4-600 price point. 
>
> Pete (with a Soma Double Cross Disc on order to replace my LHT) in CT
>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Reid]

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 8:26:02 PM UTC-7, Leslie wrote: 
>
> http://www.rivbike.com/Articles.asp?ID=337

 
Thanks, Leslie. So that's it for info on the fat tire tourer??? Just one 
short line??? Harrumph.
 
Reid

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Leslie]

http://www.rivbike.com/Articles.asp?ID=337

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Reid]

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote: 
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   
>  
>
 
Erm, sorry for being so dense, but even though the "bike picker feature" is 
probably right in front of me on the Riv site, can someone point me to it?
 
Yours in buffudlement,
 
Reid

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Montclair BobbyB]

Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic disc 
brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the older 
style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted brake lines 
or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super dependable, way 
more dependable than rim brakes!  And even the best-adjusted cable-actuated 
disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics.  The price has come way 
down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with cable 
discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in all kinds 
of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow).  THEY STOP in all 
kinds of weather!

I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would require 
a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section of the fork). 
 This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks elegant.  Then 
again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty in a disc version.. 
Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved 29er disc fork (the 
Willits WOW).   I love the look of rim brakes, but performance wise there's 
simply no contest between rim and disc brakes.

Peace,
BB

On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote:
>
>
> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical 
> ones. 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[James Warren]

Is the budget Riv of Summer 2013, AKA the less expensive fat tire tourer, the same bike as the stealthy, inexpensive-looking bike for cities that they have talked about.
 
I have gotten the impression that these are two separate models that are on the horizon. The latter I've heard mentioned repeatedly for a while. The former, AKA the less expensive fat tire tourer, is something I don't think I had heard about before last week when the OP mentioned it on this list.
 

-Original Message- From: Christopher Miller Rosales Sent: Sep 3, 2012 8:40 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013? 
They've been hinting towards this bike for a while, I really can't wait to see some preliminary shots of it! As a college student, this sounds like what I've been waiting for. A true lugged beauty (to the rider), that I can lock on campus without nervously twitching every few moments. Plus, that plush and smooth Riv ride we all love. This is also conveniently timed right after my graduation, so what a great present I can indulge in, and take it with me to Grad school! Great job, Rivendell, I can't wait to see what you come up.

Ride on,
Chris

On Monday, September 3, 2012 8:13:01 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:

Ah we all have our wants. I wanted a rivendell with a 59cm non sloping top tube like a 61cm atlantis but in 650b to reduce stand over. Something like a 58cm AHH but with clearance for 60s. I feel I am in custom range there though unfortunately. 
On Sep 3, 2012 10:52 PM, "charlie" <cl_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Me too on the 54cm and 58 cm 'Hunk' sizing..the 58cm would have been fine in a non up sloping frame but I think more than slightly too tall for me otherwise with bigger tires.On Monday, September 3, 2012 4:32:15 PM UTC-7, Michael_S wrote:
a fat tire tourer! ... sounds like a winner to me. Hopefully with lugs and cantilever brakes.

 And maybe  in a size I want to buy, as I'm between sizes on the Hunqapillar, 54 too small for me ( I don't like tall stems and posts) , 58 too big in standover. 

Looking forward to this one.

~mike
Carlsbad, Ca 


On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:

I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
 
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Joe Bernard]

Agreed! I guess I'll hold on to my orphaned 650B wheels for a while and see 
what's next from Rivendell.
 
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 1:30:26 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:

> They should do all sizes in 650b,the choice of a new generation...at least 
> for a decade, haha. 
>
>
>>>
>>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

They should do all sizes in 650b,the choice of a new generation...at least
for a decade, haha.

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:56 PM, redsydude  wrote:

> Throughout this 2011 interview and Q/A are comments about some of the
> original conceptions for this bike.
> http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2772-bootstrapped-profitable-proud-rivendell
>
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 3:08:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Beebe wrote:
>
>> I remember reading on the blug about this frame about year ago(?) but
>> can't find the post.Definitely intriguing whenever a new model is in
>> the pipeline.   It's fun to watch the design process unfold and I'm glad
>> Riv shares the process in the RR and blug to the extent they do.
>>
>> > This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally
>> > produce a tig welded frame. "
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the blug post said it wouldn't be tigged-if it's
>> Rivendell it must have lugs.. which makes pricing tough, but they won't
>> veer from lugs.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:44:05 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 9:13 am, "clampe1...@cox.net"  wrote:
>>> >  there is a super heavy duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!
>>>
>>> This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally
>>> produce a tig welded frame. Wasn't there mention a while back of Keven
>>> and Dave designing a bike? I think so.
>>>
>>> There have been times when I've lusted for a Riv touring frame and
>>> then other times when I've that my LHT could handle all my bike needs--
>>> touring, commuting, randonneuring and just riding.
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>>  --
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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[redsydude]

Throughout this 2011 interview and Q/A are comments about some of the 
original conceptions for this bike.
http://37signals.com/svn/posts/2772-bootstrapped-profitable-proud-rivendell
 

On Monday, September 3, 2012 3:08:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Beebe wrote:

> I remember reading on the blug about this frame about year ago(?) but 
> can't find the post.Definitely intriguing whenever a new model is in 
> the pipeline.   It's fun to watch the design process unfold and I'm glad 
> Riv shares the process in the RR and blug to the extent they do.
>
> > This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally 
> > produce a tig welded frame. "
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the blug post said it wouldn't be tigged-if it's 
> Rivendell it must have lugs.. which makes pricing tough, but they won't 
> veer from lugs.
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:44:05 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote: 
>>
>> On Sep 2, 9:13 am, "clampe1...@cox.net"  wrote: 
>> >  there is a super heavy duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013! 
>>
>> This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally 
>> produce a tig welded frame. Wasn't there mention a while back of Keven 
>> and Dave designing a bike? I think so. 
>>
>> There have been times when I've lusted for a Riv touring frame and 
>> then other times when I've that my LHT could handle all my bike needs-- 
>> touring, commuting, randonneuring and just riding. 
>>
>> mike 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Keeg4n]

I'm scratching my head after trying to find the where I previously read of 
this bike.  The best I could scrounge up is the following from the mailing 
list:

"Rumors are strong that 2013 is going to be the year that even the most 
conservative, scaredy cat bike makers make the leap to 650B, which means 
even more rim and tire availability. We know this to be true, actually. The 
first mtn bike World Cup was won on 650B. Five years ago, who’d’ve bet on 
that?"

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the "Fat tire, super duty tourer: 
COMING SOON! Summer 2013" will be 650B, well at least in smaller sizes.


On Sunday, September 2, 2012 12:13:38 PM UTC-4, Chris Lampe wrote:
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>  
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Christopher Miller Rosales]

They've been hinting towards this bike for a while, I really can't wait to 
see some preliminary shots of it! As a college student, this sounds like 
what I've been waiting for. A true lugged beauty (to the rider), that I can 
lock on campus without nervously twitching every few moments. Plus, that 
plush and smooth Riv ride we all love. This is also conveniently timed 
right after my graduation, so what a great present I can indulge in, and 
take it with me to Grad school! Great job, Rivendell, I can't wait to see 
what you come up.

Ride on,
Chris


On Monday, September 3, 2012 8:13:01 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> Ah we all have our wants. I wanted a rivendell with a 59cm non sloping top 
> tube like a 61cm atlantis but in 650b to reduce stand over. Something like 
> a 58cm AHH but with clearance for 60s. I feel I am in custom range there 
> though unfortunately. 
> On Sep 3, 2012 10:52 PM, "charlie" > 
> wrote:
>
>> Me too on the 54cm and 58 cm 'Hunk' sizing..the 58cm would have been 
>> fine in a non up sloping frame but I think more than slightly too tall for 
>> me otherwise with bigger tires.
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 4:32:15 PM UTC-7, Michael_S wrote:
>>>
>>> a fat tire tourer! ... sounds like a winner to me. Hopefully with lugs 
>>> and cantilever brakes.
>>>
>>>  And maybe  in a size I want to buy, as I'm between sizes on the 
>>> Hunqapillar, 54 too small for me ( I don't like tall stems and posts) , 58 
>>> too big in standover. 
>>>
>>> Looking forward to this one.
>>>
>>> ~mike
>>> Carlsbad, Ca 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:

 I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
 range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
 duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
 mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
 on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
 I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
 this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
  
  

>>>  -- 
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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[lungimsam]

>
> They could call the Tig-ged riv the "Tig-Pig".
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Ah we all have our wants. I wanted a rivendell with a 59cm non sloping top
tube like a 61cm atlantis but in 650b to reduce stand over. Something like
a 58cm AHH but with clearance for 60s. I feel I am in custom range there
though unfortunately.
On Sep 3, 2012 10:52 PM, "charlie"  wrote:

> Me too on the 54cm and 58 cm 'Hunk' sizing..the 58cm would have been
> fine in a non up sloping frame but I think more than slightly too tall for
> me otherwise with bigger tires.
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 4:32:15 PM UTC-7, Michael_S wrote:
>>
>> a fat tire tourer! ... sounds like a winner to me. Hopefully with lugs
>> and cantilever brakes.
>>
>>  And maybe  in a size I want to buy, as I'm between sizes on the
>> Hunqapillar, 54 too small for me ( I don't like tall stems and posts) , 58
>> too big in standover.
>>
>> Looking forward to this one.
>>
>> ~mike
>> Carlsbad, Ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:
>>>
>>> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price
>>> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy
>>> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this
>>> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye
>>> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely
>>> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what
>>> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  --
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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[charlie]

Me too on the 54cm and 58 cm 'Hunk' sizing..the 58cm would have been 
fine in a non up sloping frame but I think more than slightly too tall for 
me otherwise with bigger tires.

On Monday, September 3, 2012 4:32:15 PM UTC-7, Michael_S wrote:
>
> a fat tire tourer! ... sounds like a winner to me. Hopefully with lugs and 
> cantilever brakes.
>
>  And maybe  in a size I want to buy, as I'm between sizes on the 
> Hunqapillar, 54 too small for me ( I don't like tall stems and posts) , 58 
> too big in standover. 
>
> Looking forward to this one.
>
> ~mike
> Carlsbad, Ca 
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:
>>
>> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
>> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
>> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
>> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
>> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
>> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
>> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>>  
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Pesce]

Soma sells their fancy lugged Stanyan for $700 ish, so I'd guess thats about as 
cheap as lugs can get. Below that youre in a very crowded market. Both Soma and 
Surly sell very sensible frames at the 4-600 price point. 

Pete (with a Soma Double Cross Disc on order to replace my LHT) in CT

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Seems like a great idea, since the Bombadil f/f is $3k, and the 
intended-budget-Bomba Hunqapillar isn't exactly an inexpensive alternative 
at $1875. I know they are great frames that cost what great frames cost, 
but it's gotta be a tough sell for a lot of potential buyers looking at a 
complete bike price of at least $4k.

Lugs? Of course! A lugless Rivendell doesn't make any sense at all. 
Disc-brakes? I seem to recall some early ruminations that the Bomba would 
be disc-compatible. Having this new frame with a disc option and with 
thread-in canti-posts may broaden the appeal. Retro-purists could always 
just get one of the other models if the superfluous disc mounts are deemed 
too offensive.

In any case, whatever it turns out to be: I like it!



On Sunday, September 2, 2012 11:13:38 AM UTC-5, Chris Lampe wrote:
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>  
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Agreed, there are only beautiful new ones and beautiful ones with lovely
beausage.
On Sep 3, 2012 8:17 PM, "Joe Bernard"  wrote:

> An ugly Rivendell? That just doesn't seem right.
>
> Joe Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
> On Monday, September 3, 2012 3:59:30 PM UTC-7, Leslie wrote:
>
>> Didn't you read the interview w/ Grant, regarding his Yosemite thoughts?
>> http://www.urbanvelo.org/**issue32/p76-77.html
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Joe Bernard]

An ugly Rivendell? That just doesn't seem right.
 
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA.

On Monday, September 3, 2012 3:59:30 PM UTC-7, Leslie wrote:

> Didn't you read the interview w/ Grant, regarding his Yosemite thoughts?
> http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue32/p76-77.html
>

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Ginz]

I believe that pigs would sooner fly for lugs than disc brakes.  Hope
you like cantis!

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Michael_S]

a fat tire tourer! ... sounds like a winner to me. Hopefully with lugs and 
cantilever brakes.

 And maybe  in a size I want to buy, as I'm between sizes on the 
Hunqapillar, 54 too small for me ( I don't like tall stems and posts) , 58 
too big in standover. 

Looking forward to this one.

~mike
Carlsbad, Ca 




On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>  
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Dave]

Unbeatable idea!

On 9/3/2012 3:24 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 15:18 -0700, lungimsam wrote:
*/Tig welds!?!?!?/* (Rivendell Reader/Brooks Newsletter hits study 
floor. Pipe tumbles from mouth. Rises from studded leather chair, 
forefinger extended to ceiling). 
(Incredulous) *Perish the thought! Tut, tut...(*clears throat, trying 
to settle self with dignity). 
Don't give RBW any bright ideas. 
Let them know we'll settle for nothing less from them than lugs, 
lugs, lugs (at least I won't). 
I am sure they can do a budget with lugs. 
Weren't there quality, affordable lugged steel bikes ~1960-1980? *: )*


Here's the headbadge for that TIGged Rivendell:

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<>

Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Leslie]

Didn't you read the interview w/ Grant, regarding his Yosemite thoughts?
http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue32/p76-77.html

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Lyle Bogart]

Ha! I'd actually buy that headbadge (but not the TIGged Riv. . . ),
presuming the usual gorgeous cloisonné work!

On 3 September 2012 18:24, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> **
> On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 15:18 -0700, lungimsam wrote:
>
> *Tig welds!?!?!?* (Rivendell Reader/Brooks Newsletter hits study floor.
> Pipe tumbles from mouth. Rises from studded leather chair, forefinger
> extended to ceiling).
>
>  (Incredulous) *Perish the thought! Tut, tut...(*clears throat, trying to
> settle self with dignity).
>
>
>
>  Don't give RBW any bright ideas.
>
>  Let them know we'll settle for nothing less from them than lugs, lugs,
> lugs (at least I won't).
>
>  I am sure they can do a budget with lugs.
>
>  Weren't there quality, affordable lugged steel bikes ~1960-1980? *: )*
>
>
> Here's the headbadge for that TIGged Rivendell:
>
>   --
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-- 
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd
wiscasset, me 04578
207.882.6494
206.794.6937

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<>

Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 15:18 -0700, lungimsam wrote:
> Tig welds!?!?!? (Rivendell Reader/Brooks Newsletter hits study floor.
> Pipe tumbles from mouth. Rises from studded leather chair, forefinger
> extended to ceiling).
> (Incredulous) Perish the thought! Tut, tut...(clears throat, trying to
> settle self with dignity).
>  
> Don't give RBW any bright ideas.
> Let them know we'll settle for nothing less from them than lugs, lugs,
> lugs (at least I won't).
> I am sure they can do a budget with lugs.
> Weren't there quality, affordable lugged steel bikes ~1960-1980? : )


Here's the headbadge for that TIGged Rivendell:


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<>

[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[lungimsam]

*Tig welds!?!?!?* (Rivendell Reader/Brooks Newsletter hits study floor. 
Pipe tumbles from mouth. Rises from studded leather chair, forefinger 
extended to ceiling).
(Incredulous) *Perish the thought! Tut, tut...(*clears throat, trying to 
settle self with dignity).
 
Don't give RBW any bright ideas.
Let them know we'll settle for nothing less from them than lugs, lugs, lugs 
(at least I won't).
I am sure they can do a budget with lugs.
Weren't there quality, affordable lugged steel bikes ~1960-1980? *: )*
 
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[James Warren]

Well, I didn't mention the issue of lugged versus tig, because I expect that 
any Rivendell will be lugged.

And now that you bring it up, I'll point out that a beautiful lugged bike with 
disc brakes would be pretty cool and a bit unique.

I'm not sure if the brakes would complicate fender attaching at the dropouts, 
but at the fork crown and seatstay bridge, things would be a bit more free.


On Sep 3, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

> Aren't there a decent amount of tig welded-disc brake bikes out there right 
> now? Good cantis or v brakes have the power of disc brakes anyway I have 
> found, although discs are easier to set up. I hate the idea of a tig welded 
> rivendell, what is the point? I believe one of rivendells mottos is "always 
> lugged, always steel"
> 
> On Sep 3, 2012 5:53 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:
> 
> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical ones.
> 
> 
> 
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James Warren
jimcwar...@earthlink.net

- Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.



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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Matt Beebe]

I remember reading on the blug about this frame about year ago(?) but can't 
find the post.Definitely intriguing whenever a new model is in the 
pipeline.   It's fun to watch the design process unfold and I'm glad Riv 
shares the process in the RR and blug to the extent they do.

> This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally 
> produce a tig welded frame. "


I'm pretty sure the blug post said it wouldn't be tigged-if it's 
Rivendell it must have lugs.. which makes pricing tough, but they won't 
veer from lugs.



On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:44:05 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
>
> On Sep 2, 9:13 am, "clampe1...@cox.net"  wrote: 
> >  there is a super heavy duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013! 
>
> This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally 
> produce a tig welded frame. Wasn't there mention a while back of Keven 
> and Dave designing a bike? I think so. 
>
> There have been times when I've lusted for a Riv touring frame and 
> then other times when I've that my LHT could handle all my bike needs-- 
> touring, commuting, randonneuring and just riding. 
>
> mike 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Peter Morgano]

Aren't there a decent amount of tig welded-disc brake bikes out there right
now? Good cantis or v brakes have the power of disc brakes anyway I have
found, although discs are easier to set up. I hate the idea of a tig welded
rivendell, what is the point? I believe one of rivendells mottos is "always
lugged, always steel"
On Sep 3, 2012 5:53 PM, "James Warren"  wrote:

>
> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical
> ones.
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[James Warren]

I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. Mechanical ones.



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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[Mike]

On Sep 2, 9:13 am, "clampe1...@cox.net"  wrote:
>  there is a super heavy duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!

This is good and interesting news. I wonder if Riv will finally
produce a tig welded frame. Wasn't there mention a while back of Keven
and Dave designing a bike? I think so.

There have been times when I've lusted for a Riv touring frame and
then other times when I've that my LHT could handle all my bike needs--
touring, commuting, randonneuring and just riding.

mike

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[RBW] Re: New "budget" Riv in Summer 2013?

[charlie]

Oh me too.I've been vexed over the decision to downsize and sell my 
Simplone and Hillborne then convert my parts off my Surly Trucker to an 
Atlantis or a 'Hunk' but I'm not totally sold on the 54cm size Hunk not 
wanting so much seat post sticking up etc. and I like the double top tubes 
of the Hillborne but desire a Riv frame to replace my Trucker but with 
clearances for wider tires and really stout so I can ride it loaded at my 
weight and still use it as a commuter/all purpose machine with lights etc. 
but lugged (unlike my Trucker) which I like fit wise and all.  Two G's for 
an Atlantis is a tough pill to swallow but something like it would be a 
close match to my Trucker as far as parts and fit. Guess you can't please 
all the people all the time and Riv has quite a few models. We cyclist's 
can be a picky bunch

On Sunday, September 2, 2012 9:13:38 AM UTC-7, Chris Lampe wrote:
>
> I was looking at Rivendell's bike picker feature and under the  price 
> range of the San Marcos, Hillborne and Betty Foy, there is a super heavy 
> duty tour bike listed for the Summer of 2013!   I haven't seen this 
> mentioned here or in the blog but it's got me excited!!   I've had my eye 
> on a Hunqapillar for some time but budgetary constraints make it unlikely 
> I'll ever get one.  If RBW comes out with a budget Hunqa, which is what 
> this sounds like, then I will be really interested!  
>  
>  
>

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