Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
Ok, but who from Caucho would allow e.g. me to try to build a community? Do I need to be explicitly allowed or can I just go for it? ps: I mean a typical php-community addressed to end-users that don't care about all the fancy app server and java specific stuff. Sam schrieb: >>> So why not start a community around Resin-Quercus that focuses the >>> following topics: >>> >>> - Making the most common php-based applications 100% work (e.q. >>> Joomla! >>> is on the first sight but isn't at all) >>> - Making the most used Pear scripts work with Quercus >>> - Patching still buggy built-in functions and ship them in a >>> serperate >>> contribution (it is possible to patch them without touching the core >>> Quercus code) >>> - Providing community specific resources like how-tos, forums, etc. >>> >>> >> For the begining it would be even great to have just a place to >> "report" where do people use Quercus, how do they use it and what >> tricks were required to make it work. >> > > We have a Quercus specific forum recently set up here: > http://forum.caucho.com/ > > I think it is a good idea to build a community as proposed. > We are currently working through many PHP applications ourselves and > fixing any issues we encounter. We also gladly accept patches and we > can apply those to the source. > > They can be attached to bug reports: > http://bugs.caucho.com > > >> This sounds good, but I'm not sure at what degree is the Resin team >> interested in a community since maybe they want to sell this as >> consulting (just guessing). >> > > Actually, as a company, we made a deliberate decision not to become a > consulting company. Our realization was that if we were a consulting > company, then the motivation would be to make a product that sold > consulting work, and that could have a negative impact on the quality > of the product. > > We do have partnerships with other companies for situations where we > are asked about providing consulting services: > http://www.caucho.com/sales/services.xtp > > We also have various support options: > http://caucho.com/sales/sales.xtp > > But again, our focus is not on support as a major offering because that > would detract from our focus on making a better product. Our focus for > support is providing help for unusual situations and people who need to > know that they can get our advice and help when they need it. We also > have some long standing relationships that we have developed through > support and we find that to be extremely valuable in helping us > determine how to improve Resin. > > Take care, > > -- Sam > > > > > ___ > resin-interest mailing list > resin-interest@caucho.com > http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest > > > -- Markus Bopp Fussfallstr. 44 D-51109 Koeln Phone: +49 (0)221 6902538 Mobile:+49 (0)178 3269235 Web: http://www.php-projekte.de E-Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 178152063 Openwengo: markus.bopp Skype: koelnkalk USt-IdNr.: DE227436004 ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
>> So why not start a community around Resin-Quercus that focuses the >> following topics: >> >> - Making the most common php-based applications 100% work (e.q. >> Joomla! >> is on the first sight but isn't at all) >> - Making the most used Pear scripts work with Quercus >> - Patching still buggy built-in functions and ship them in a >> serperate >> contribution (it is possible to patch them without touching the core >> Quercus code) >> - Providing community specific resources like how-tos, forums, etc. >> > For the begining it would be even great to have just a place to > "report" where do people use Quercus, how do they use it and what > tricks were required to make it work. We have a Quercus specific forum recently set up here: http://forum.caucho.com/ I think it is a good idea to build a community as proposed. We are currently working through many PHP applications ourselves and fixing any issues we encounter. We also gladly accept patches and we can apply those to the source. They can be attached to bug reports: http://bugs.caucho.com > This sounds good, but I'm not sure at what degree is the Resin team > interested in a community since maybe they want to sell this as > consulting (just guessing). Actually, as a company, we made a deliberate decision not to become a consulting company. Our realization was that if we were a consulting company, then the motivation would be to make a product that sold consulting work, and that could have a negative impact on the quality of the product. We do have partnerships with other companies for situations where we are asked about providing consulting services: http://www.caucho.com/sales/services.xtp We also have various support options: http://caucho.com/sales/sales.xtp But again, our focus is not on support as a major offering because that would detract from our focus on making a better product. Our focus for support is providing help for unusual situations and people who need to know that they can get our advice and help when they need it. We also have some long standing relationships that we have developed through support and we find that to be extremely valuable in helping us determine how to improve Resin. Take care, -- Sam ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
> Running apt-get install libapache-mod-php5 is a lot easier than running > Resin for 99.99% of people in my experience. We are planning on creating a debian package after the 3.1.1 release. With the decision to package the Sun JDK as a debian package that should work fairly well. > Why Caucho decided to have php support in their webserver rather than > fix the bugs in the Servlet container is something that confuses my and > my colleagues almost daily. We did consider that, and we hired more engineers to make sure that Quercus development would not impact the time and effort we had to apply to Resin. We actually have more resources working on Servlet/JSP/Java EE than we did at the time Quercus development was started. We are still looking to hire more people: http://www.caucho.com/sales/jobs.xtp For bug fixes, we follow the bugtracker closely (bugs.caucho.com) and try to prioritize. As mentioned in another post, it is helpful if there is a reproducable test case. Customers who sign up for platinum support almost always have bug fixes completed for the next release, and often we release an interim snapshot so that the bug fix can be tested. -- Sam ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
David Campbell wrote: > > Ahmed Mohombe wrote: >> Sorry but this does not apply here. >> AFAIK Caucho is a company, not a "one man show". > > How many engineers do you think Caucho have? > I don't know if Caucho has many engineers or not. The only public information is here: http://www.caucho.com/about.xtp It would be however strange for a comany to have 4 people for management and "no employees to manage" :). Ahmed. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Quercus-is-fantastic-%21-tf3381184.html#a9433155 Sent from the Resin mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
Ahmed Mohombe wrote: > Sorry but this does not apply here. > AFAIK Caucho is a company, not a "one man show". How many engineers do you think Caucho have? > Judging by your logic, all companies would do only one product at a time. Perhaps small companies should be fixing bugs rather than developing non core functionality. I think Caucho support for PHP is quite cool, I can't think of any scenario where I might use it but cool none the less. > just my 2 cents, > > Ahmed. > P.S. I understand that some (maybe many - I can't appreciate) users are > frustrated with some "ugly" Resin bugs, but IMHO this is not the way these > problems will be solved. > Some constructuive bug reports with simple and reproductible test cases > would help much more. http://bugs.caucho.com/view_all_bug_page.php Dave -- Visit Guardian Unlimited - the UK's most popular newspaper website http://guardian.co.uk http://observer.co.uk -- The Newspaper Marketing Agency Opening Up Newspapers http://www.nmauk.co.uk -- This e-mail and all attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender and delete the e-mail and all attachments immediately. Do not disclose the contents to another person. You may not use the information for any purpose, or store, or copy, it in any way. Guardian News & Media Limited is not liable for any computer viruses or other material transmitted with or as part of this e-mail. You should employ virus checking software. Guardian News & Media Limited A member of Guardian Media Group PLC Registered Office Number 1 Scott Place, Manchester M3 3GG Registered in England Number 908396 ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
Mattias Jiderhamn-4 wrote: > >> Also let's not forget that most of the PHP development takes place on >> Windows machines, where making things work (e.g. with IIS) is even more >> error prone. >> So for all these people, just downloading an application server, >> unpacking >> and starting it is much simpler and secure above all. >> > The problem is that Windows users normally don't have a JDK installed. > Maybe, but this is true for any other things as well (or does windows come with the Zend platform pre-installed?). Also installing the JDK is dead simple as there is a setup that can be installed by just clicking, with no further configuration/tunning required. If this is mentioned everywhere with the according link, all users can do it (not so when command line work or editing config files is required). Mattias Jiderhamn-4 wrote: > >> David Campbell wrote: >> >>> Why Caucho decided to have php support in their webserver rather than >>> fix the bugs in the Servlet container is something that confuses my and >>> my colleagues almost daily. >>> >>> >> The one has nothing to do with the other. >> PHP support is webserver independent so it does not exclude the other. >> > If you are watching TV instead of cleaning the house or mowing the lawn, > does your spouse agree with you that "The one has nothing to do with the > other"...? > Sorry but this does not apply here. AFAIK Caucho is a company, not a "one man show". Judging by your logic, all companies would do only one product at a time. just my 2 cents, Ahmed. P.S. I understand that some (maybe many - I can't appreciate) users are frustrated with some "ugly" Resin bugs, but IMHO this is not the way these problems will be solved. Some constructuive bug reports with simple and reproductible test cases would help much more. Also since Resin comes with most of the sources, it's simpler in many cases to point the code lines where the problems appear and maybe propose a solution. I can't believe if Issues are approached this way, Caucho wouldn't fix them ASAP. IMHO the above is true for every project, open source or not. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Quercus-is-fantastic-%21-tf3381184.html#a9432821 Sent from the Resin mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
Ahmed Mohombe: > Also let's not forget that most of the PHP development takes place on > Windows machines, where making things work (e.g. with IIS) is even more > error prone. > So for all these people, just downloading an application server, unpacking > and starting it is much simpler and secure above all. > The problem is that Windows users normally don't have a JDK installed. > David Campbell wrote: > >> Why Caucho decided to have php support in their webserver rather than >> fix the bugs in the Servlet container is something that confuses my and >> my colleagues almost daily. >> >> > The one has nothing to do with the other. > PHP support is webserver independent so it does not exclude the other. > If you are watching TV instead of cleaning the house or mowing the lawn, does your spouse agree with you that "The one has nothing to do with the other"...? ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
- David Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Running apt-get install libapache-mod-php5 is a lot easier than > running > Resin for 99.99% of people in my experience. Try "emerge resin" -- it's a whole lot less typing. ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
David Campbell wrote: > > > Running apt-get install libapache-mod-php5 is a lot easier than running > Resin for 99.99% of people in my experience. > I beg to disagree :). We don't know what "people in my experience" is, but for sure most simple users don't use apt-get (other distro) or have no idea that exists or how to use it, since for most users the command line is already a too big nightmare. Even if this doesn't sound professional, it is the reality :) - there are no that many linux gurus around :). Also let's not forget that most of the PHP development takes place on Windows machines, where making things work (e.g. with IIS) is even more error prone. So for all these people, just downloading an application server, unpacking and starting it is much simpler and secure above all. David Campbell wrote: > > Why Caucho decided to have php support in their webserver rather than > fix the bugs in the Servlet container is something that confuses my and > my colleagues almost daily. > The one has nothing to do with the other. PHP support is webserver independent so it does not exclude the other. I think Quercus it's a fantastic piece of software and I'm happy they released it. The Resin application server is a separate product, and it was anywhay not the subject of this thread :). Ahmed. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Quercus-is-fantastic-%21-tf3381184.html#a9413858 Sent from the Resin mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
Markus Bopp wrote: > Hi, > > I informed lots of people about Quercus and feedback was from "wtf?" to > "that's what I waited for a long time". > > The problem why a lot of people notice but don't use it, is simple: > > most PHP users don't want the hassle of setting up a complete enterprise > architecture just to get their scripts work. Running apt-get install libapache-mod-php5 is a lot easier than running Resin for 99.99% of people in my experience. Why Caucho decided to have php support in their webserver rather than fix the bugs in the Servlet container is something that confuses my and my colleagues almost daily. Dave ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
> > This sounds good, but I'm not sure at what degree is the Resin team > interested in a community since maybe they want to sell this as consulting > (just guessing). > If it's not a problem than it would be very nice. > They shouldn't have a problem with it. If their codes and intelectual properties won't be affected in some way, why should they bother? In fact the only community I see around Quercus atm is purely Java-Dev oriented and not really addressed to "PHP-End-Users". Maybe one of the guys from Resin could say something about it? A good community is always the gurantee for success. -- Markus Bopp Fussfallstr. 44 D-51109 Koeln Phone: +49 (0)221 6902538 Mobile:+49 (0)178 3269235 Web: http://www.php-projekte.de E-Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 178152063 Openwengo: markus.bopp Skype: koelnkalk USt-IdNr.: DE227436004 ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
TheMuffinMan wrote: > > I informed lots of people about Quercus and feedback was from "wtf?" to > "that's what I waited for a long time". > Very interesting. So everybody is happy and it's very cool when some RoR "Hello World" works somehow, but when classical and very used webapplications (by millions of users) run faster, better and more secure, nobody is impressed. TheMuffinMan wrote: > > The problem why a lot of people notice but don't use it, is simple: > > most PHP users don't want the hassle of setting up a complete enterprise > architecture just to get their scripts work. > > You know that this is not true, but moste people think it is > (Resin-Quercus is a lot easier set and started up than Xampp & Co.). > Of course is simpler. Even with Tomcat - just download, unpack and ready. It works even better without Apache in front of it (since connectors and stuff are always a PITA). Maybe some short screencast would be the alternative, to show the people that it's much simpler and faster, and than post it as an anwer to all that have problems and ask for help with setting up Apache + phpCGI. TheMuffinMan wrote: > > So why not start a community around Resin-Quercus that focuses the > following topics: > > - Making the most common php-based applications 100% work (e.q. Joomla! > is on the first sight but isn't at all) > - Making the most used Pear scripts work with Quercus > - Patching still buggy built-in functions and ship them in a serperate > contribution (it is possible to patch them without touching the core > Quercus code) > - Providing community specific resources like how-tos, forums, etc. > This sounds good, but I'm not sure at what degree is the Resin team interested in a community since maybe they want to sell this as consulting (just guessing). If it's not a problem than it would be very nice. For the begining it would be even great to have just a place to "report" where do people use Quercus, how do they use it and what tricks were required to make it work. Ahmed. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Quercus-is-fantastic-%21-tf3381184.html#a9411397 Sent from the Resin mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] Quercus is fantastic !
Hi, I informed lots of people about Quercus and feedback was from "wtf?" to "that's what I waited for a long time". The problem why a lot of people notice but don't use it, is simple: most PHP users don't want the hassle of setting up a complete enterprise architecture just to get their scripts work. You know that this is not true, but moste people think it is (Resin-Quercus is a lot easier set and started up than Xampp & Co.). So why not start a community around Resin-Quercus that focuses the following topics: - Making the most common php-based applications 100% work (e.q. Joomla! is on the first sight but isn't at all) - Making the most used Pear scripts work with Quercus - Patching still buggy built-in functions and ship them in a serperate contribution (it is possible to patch them without touching the core Quercus code) - Providing community specific resources like how-tos, forums, etc. All these tasks can't be managed by the Resin-Guys alone, since they need (I believe) all their time for concentrating on Resin development. If you are interested in building such a community, please contact me. Greetings, Markus Ahmed Mohombe schrieb: > Hi, > > Quercus is a fantastic piece of software. > Now since it is application server independent, it's even cooler :). > > I'm puzzeled that it has such a small echo and other very "unimportant" tech > buzz things get much more attention (e.g. the entire jruby buzz). > > Maybe you (as authors) could mention it on > dzone.com > Therserverside.com > InfoQ.com > etc? > > Now that it can be run on any application server, IMHO people should know > about it! > > Also considering the many PHP security problems that Quercus simple doesn't > have, it would be nice > to inform those PHP communities too about the availability of a secure PHP > alternative. > > Thank you very much for this nice software, > > Ahmed. > -- Markus Bopp Fussfallstr. 44 D-51109 Koeln Phone: +49 (0)221 6902538 Mobile:+49 (0)178 3269235 Web: http://www.php-projekte.de E-Mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 178152063 Openwengo: markus.bopp Skype: koelnkalk USt-IdNr.: DE227436004 ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
