At the VERY least, you're going to need to find citadel.config and
citadel.control
files, and copy them to /usr/local/citadel/ along with your database in
/usr/local/citadel/data/
https://www.citadel.org/file_layout.html might give some hints as to where
to find the rest of the files,
One question:
What things will be lost if we manage to migrate the DB? Just to be
prepared.
In the meantime, I am investigating if I can use this tool:
https://github.com/imapsync/imapsync
to migrate all the emails (after recreating the accounts) from the old
to the new server
It doesn't connect, I tried it locally:
telnet 127.0.0.1 504
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
And from my PC
telnet 192.168.16.33 504
Trying 192.168.16.33...
telnet: Unable to connect to remote host: Connection refused
# ps -eaf|grep cit
root
And I can't connect to webcit: This program was unable to connect or stay connected to the Citadel server. Please report this problem to your system administrator. I wonder if it won't work for me to copy the DBs from my current version: Citadel 8.17 with WebCit 8.17, server build 8.17?
Good day, using the new version provided.
Last night, I stopped my server in production and copied the files from
the DB. I copied them to: /usr/local/citadel/data/ (in the new VM)
When I run the appImage, I start to receive the information attached to
the file.
After the message, it seems
I get this message when I try to get in: http://192.168.16.33/ didn't find Template [login] 5 5
Great. Don't worry about webcit barfing on the template yet. I am getting that too, and am in the process of fixing it.
For the time being, I am satisfied to know that the AppImage is
Using a Proxmox VM:
Debian GNU/Linux 10
Linux vm2 4.19.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.160-2 (2020-11-28) x86_64
GNU/Linux
This VM has Internet access from the local network, the gateway is a
fortigate.
Installed as root from the local user's folder:
root@vm2:/home/user1#
wget
Are you still running your production system on a Raspberry Pi? Hopefully
I will have an ARM image ready by early next week. I think you should do
your testing on a Pi 400 :)
I'm going to have to buy another 240gb SD to make a "gold backup" of my production machine, so that I can start using the second one as a test box. I'll order one, and once I get it, and make a mirror of the production server - I'll start testing this.
Thu Jan 07 2021 14:57:11 EST from
More progress has been made on the AppImage. It now contains a small supervisor
program that will keep the various server processes up and running, restarting
them if they crash for whatever reason, etc. It shouldn't take long to finish
this.
I am excited about it. If this works as
The development team has always operated in that mode -- people come and go,
some contribute amazing things, some make messes that have to be cleaned up,
but it's always good to have some fresh ideas. There are occasionally stretches
where I'm the only one writing any code, but we must remember
For those who started out on Z80 machines running Citadel on dual floppies and dealing with constant BDOS errors, moved to Citadel in x86 and x64 platforms, migrated to Citadel/UX - today's Citadel is pretty amazing, without a doubt. Citadel from back then is pretty much responsible for my
Hi Art,
Yes i have been following along, even though i don't know how, i can see 'what' work you guys have been doing - generally. Exciting to read! I'm still struck dumb by the fact Citadel really has evolved from the 8-bit CP/M world. It is good to see, of late - you have been getting more
mo: that's pretty much our target audience at this point. I've stopped thinking
about the large enterprise market because those people are stupid, and stupid
people prefer Exchange (and Sh*point, and now Teams). A lot of what we were
building in the past revolved around the idea that a really
Great idea! I normally read without commenting as alot of the technical details are over my head. I would just like to say, i my opinion, the audience for a citadel install should be the less technical end of the spectrum, not so much interested in the groupware functionality - but the building
Tonight I have been playing around with AppImage and it's looking promising
so far.
With just an hour or two of tinkering I was able to build an AppImage
containing
the Citadel Server and all of its dependencies, wrapped up all nice and snug
in a single binary executable. The really
Be aware, USPS is FUBAR this holiday season, though.
Thu Dec 31 2020 14:23:13 EST from ParanoidDelusions Subject: Re: New idea: Citadel AppImage
I know, but you've been helpful, and tolerant of me thrashing through your support forum like a bull in a china shop with a wasp's nest up its
I know, but you've been helpful, and tolerant of me thrashing through your support forum like a bull in a china shop with a wasp's nest up its arse... and I've got a spare that is just sitting around that could do more good for Citadel as a community in your hands than sitting on a shelf in
Well, I wasn't specifically looking for a donation, but if you're willing,
I'd be pleased to accept. It would basically become a build test host for
Citadel on ARM.
I think anything that makes *nix apps easier to get installed and running is a good direction. It is one of the most frustrating aspects of *nix. With that said, the things Citadel does is not trivial, and you would assume anyone trying to throw up a groupware and mail server has experience with
*sigh*
Still mitigating the effects of making the "local name" and "name + email
address" address syntaxes more standardized.
I really, really, really hate legacy webcit. Really, really looking forward
to the day webcit-ng is feature complete and we can ditch the old bucket of
bits.
In the Windows world, the default Administrator account has a unique GUID - or used to - maybe it has been fixed - even if you rename the account. So best practice there became to create a new administrator account and disable the default administrator account completely.
Tue Dec 22 2020
So, my understanding has always been that you want to obfuscate user names because knowing a user name is valid gives a hacker a place to start testing the security of the system. Most servers do this by telling you "The user name or password is wrong, enter your e-mail address and if it is
When I took over the place in Ohio - the owner of the place was a Doctor. He was really the only one on the executive staff that bought into my vision and supported it. Everyone else saw me as a trouble maker. After 6 years, he was able to sell the company to a bay area investor and get out. I
As for why this is taking so long.
WebCit is broken. Really, really broken. Some time ago we embarked upon
an effort to get all of the HTML out of the WebCit C code and put it into
templates. And we did. The problem is that the template syntax is so horrible
that it's barely readable,
Technical discussion of the last few commits, for anyone interested:
In "classic" Citadel there were several different address formats:
1.Display name
2.Display name @ node
3.Display name
The second format is clearly obsolete now that there is no
>Author: root
>Date: Wed Dec 2 09:36:26 2020 -0500
>
>input type="date" here will allow datepicker.js to be eliminated
>and should fall back to type="text" in the few remaining browsers
>that don't support it.
I'm assuming this is Warren ... could you set your
The above commit should be the final completion of the new libsieve-free
inbox rules handler.
It probably needs a bit of testing, if anyone has the ability to do so.
Once this is all buttoned up we can publish a new version of Citadel, which
will also include the fixes to the RSS
Awesome!
> Sun Nov 22 2020 10:26:32 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
>Subject: Re: Subject lines
>
>
>>2020-11-22 00:42 from rss
>>Subject: buntu 20.04
>>In this article, we’ll discuss how to install Flask on Ubuntu
>>20.04 inside a Python virtual environment.
>>
> 2020-11-22 00:42 from rss
>Subject: buntu 20.04
>In this article, weâll discuss how to install Flask on Ubuntu
>20.04 inside a Python virtual environment.
>
> https://linuxize.com/post/how-to-install-flask-on-ubuntu-20-04/
>
See that? The subject
>I don't have it up here in front of me, but there is the section that if
one
>is empty, the other is populated. That may have dredged up things we never
>knew existed.
Right. I believe I have fixed that.
Somewhere along the line, another developer made struct CtdlMessage a
No, it's nothing to do with the latest commit. I probably fell behind in
that conversation .. what I'm saying is..
Based on my testing of various popular Russian/International RSS feeds, it is
possible there can be any kind of junk in not only the Subject Line, but also
Author/Creator fields.
>There is all kinds of junk in those subject lines.. even CDATA. Also
>"Author/Creator". I think the Author/Creator code should be revisited...
Are you making this observation from an audit and/or test of the latest commit,
or from what is on Uncensored? I'm not *running* the fixed
Sun Nov 15 2020 13:11:47 EST from warbaby @ Uncensored Subject: re: "like", "upvote", and other features...
You raise some good issues, and I don't think 'liking' or 'voting', goes against anybodies sacred beliefs. Some conversations lend themselves things like that.
[I myself was thinking
You raise some good issues, and I don't think 'liking' or 'voting', goes
against anybodies sacred beliefs. Some conversations lend themselves things
like that.
[I myself was thinking recently, Citadel could use some a project management
feature.. .. so, I thought about writing a new module
Just saw this.. guess I'm going to have to setup IMAP again..
> Mon Nov 02 2020 01:51:37 PM EST from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
>Subject: Re: Missing space in subject line patch - Use this instead..
>
>You have write access to the repository. If the fix is well tested, go
>ahead and
Here is what multiple, single user dialup BBSs with different user-bases used to provide... Volume of content. I called Earl's Castle, and once I was done there, I hung up and I called Omni BBS, then the Rubber Crutch, then I logged into my own BBS... and I repeated that throughout the day.
Tue Sep 08 2020 09:00:50 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Citadel room sharing
Believe me, I get it. An exodus from the big sites is exactly what I want. Facebook and Twitter are cancer on the Internet and must be eradicated. Recently I've begun thinking that the failure
You have write access to the repository. If the fix is well tested, go ahead
and put it in.
>What mainly caught my attention is the inbox filter engine. I'm not sure
>(perhaps I should read back some.. ) exactly what you're referring to.
libSieve is old and unmaintained, and most people just want to write inbox
rules using the rule editor anyway, so we're abandoning Sieve
That's quite interesting .. I was also thinking of some other code bases that
could be scavenged.. [php comes to mind, there are interesting things in
there.. but I won't derail.. ]
What mainly caught my attention is the inbox filter engine. I'm not sure
(perhaps I should read back some.. )
You know what ... now that I'm more awake, I remember more clearly :)
What I was thinking about was actually called "unstripped" not "unpatched".
There was a period of time during which the build produced binaries both
with and without the debugging symbols intact.
citserver-unpatched was just a name I used for the old binary, unrelated to
anything else..
John Wayne said, "Life's tough".. (possibly him, attributed to him anyway..)
"..it's even tougher when your stupid.. "
I should have remembered why we did all kinds of stuff all careful and such
in my
>Thought to make the comment.. big difference in the size of the binaries..
>"unpatched" was a recent (like, week or so) easyinstall..
What's the date on the unpatched version? I thought we got rid of that a
long time ago.
There was some sort of build/diagnostic option that I
Yes, I should have just attached a proper patch..for some reason I've been
thinking I don't have permission for file attachments.
Regarding this html/visibility issue.. I'm testing a webcit installation with
CKeditor [see attached.]
..working on getting a nice little (not overly complex)
I'll email you privately on that.. thanks!
> Wed Sep 30 2020 06:58:55 PM EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored
>Subject: Re: Subject Line patch/fix..
>
>Ok never mind about the upload, I viewed your message in WebCit and the
>change that needed to be made appeared clearly.
>
>Before I
Ok never mind about the upload, I viewed your message in WebCit and the change
that needed to be made appeared clearly.
Before I commit this, by what name do you want to be credited in the changelog?
>Okay it's fixed. I'm very happy about this. Lots of work to find, butÂ
I
>asked God to help me find it, and He did. :)
Nice! Also I didn't know you were a believer, that's also very cool.
We should definitely apply your patch to the main tree immediately, but could
you upload
Hmm. This stuff has been reworked a few times since I last worked on it,
but it looks like you would be interested in following the following code
paths:
CtdlMakeMessage() in msgbase.c (code to read in messages ... this is called
by the SMTP server and others)
convert_internet_message()
Believe me, I get it. An exodus from the big sites is exactly what I want.
Facebook and Twitter are cancer on the Internet and must be eradicated.
Recently I've begun thinking that the failure of our largest cities is the
exact same thing happening in meatspace, and what we really want is to be
Makes sense. I have seen so much recent talk about social media having negative
effects on our society's mentality and how Facebook and Twitter are knowingly
leveraging that to make money. While I can't fault them on their business
model, if people are inclined to participate. I choose not to,
It's a good question, and one for which I have an answer in my mental roadmap
for the Citadel system.
First let's address the idea of a "messaging monopoly". During the dialup
era, the potential audience of a BBS was limited to those who could reach
the site with a local call, and to a
Points granted :)
On 7/25/20 2:49 PM, noreply wrote:
This is an automated email from the git hooks/post-receive script. It was
generated because a ref change was pushed to the repository containing
the project "Citadel Server, WebCit, utilities".
The branch, master has been updated
Mon Aug 19 2019 09:06:15 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Webcit-ng
WebCit-NG is still the intended direction of the project. I want to retire WebCit Classic. It's just a matter of time. By "citadel-thunderbird interactivity" I assume you mean CalDAV. Yes, that's already
That seems sensible enough. I might even go the ultra-old-skool way and have
the server configure a default user name and password when it's coming up
for the first time on an empty database ... but if it sees that environment
variable, it means someone knows what they're doing and it could use
>"docker exec -it my-citadel-container /usr/local/citadel/setup" to set
>the administrator password.
A traditional way to do this might be to set an environment variable on the
first boot of the container.
It's good practice to keep the containers as self-contained as possible;
>How likely will it work in a mid/high range synology nas?
I have no way of giving you any answer other than "try it and see". If they're
supporting Docker and it's standard Linux on AMD64, it ought to work, but
we won't know until someone tries it.
Some more work was done on this
How likely will it work in a mid/high range synology nas?
Regards!
On 8/21/19 12:56 PM, IGnatius T Foobar wrote:
There's a new repo called "citadel-docker" which will be used for Citadel
running in a Docker container. Commits will appear here as well.
This may seem like a small change, but it's going to be used in a lot of
different places (and it was a pain in the neck to do this because it didn't
fit well into the normal serv_upgrade.c module).
This will eliminate the places where a user name that has spaces or punctuation
in it is
WebCit-NG is still the intended direction of the project. I want to retire
WebCit Classic. It's just a matter of time.
By "citadel-thunderbird interactivity" I assume you mean CalDAV. Yes, that's
already in WebCit-
NG and it already works. So it'll be there out of the gate.
What about things such as shared calendars and address books?
I kinda think I reported long ago that these were not working properly on current Webcit (ok, maybe just calendar for now...).With another quick look I remembered what's not working in the calendar: the attendees for when creating new
Nearly all of my long term plans for Citadel *depend* on webcit-ng.
Specifically,
all of the ActivityPub (mastodon compatibility) and other global plans are
going to require the webcit-ng engine in order to work at all.
It's happening -- I just keep finding other things that need to be
Er, by chance still any plans for Webcit-ng?I'm still willing to contribute someway, in non-dev stuff -cause I'm no dev-...
Thanks
It goes in fits and spurts. Once I get started on something it tends to happen
fast. Most of the things I've been working on have been internal improvements
that don't show up in the user interface.
Mon May 27 2019 19:33:36 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Webcit-ng
It means if you're really interested and willing to commit to the work, I'll figure out a way to get you access to the server so you can help out.
Thanks IG.
Just hope you are able to find another spare
It means if you're really interested and willing to commit to the work, I'll
figure out a way to get you access to the server so you can help out.
Tue Apr 23 2019 08:45:32 EDT from IGnatius T Foobar @ Uncensored Subject: Re: Webcit-ng
Yes, we'd love some more help. Just need to figure out how to get you into the system.
Mm, may I ask what this meant?Thanks again.
Nope! I'm an infrastructure architect for a data center company. I write
software in my spare time.
Good work mr IG.
("not a professional software developer"?)...
"march mode" code is in progress. It's proving out the "REST API + JavaScript
UI" model pretty well. (Yes I know, I'm the last person in the known universe
to start doing this but ... remember I'm not a professional software developer.)
It reminds me of the old days, when we used to
Today I'm poking around in webcit-ng and adding some of the "goto next room"
code. I'm thinking that we could put up a version of UNCENSORED! that uses
this code once we get some of the basic message board stuff usable.
Yes, we'd love some more help. Just need to figure out how to get you into
the system.
Sounds like a documentation-type job...
If it indirectly benefits Webcit even a bit, would you allow one more hand for the job by chance?I could also test and check which pages from current Citadel website are outdated, and perhaps fix...
Also, wondering if you are planning to add SSL/TLS
Actually the other big deal going on right now is redoing the project web
site.
http://wwwdev.citadel.org
The new site removes DokuWiki and is being built with W3CSS, the exact same
framework that's being used for WebCit-NG. Instead of being delivered via
a content management system,
Thanks again mr IG.
So, IIUC, you're also prioritizing other stuff equally important to Citadel project.
So basically Webcit-ng will still be in the queue for the time being yet still considered, right?
As for me, even when I already started to read -right now the of databases-, it'd take me a
There are a couple of things I need to work on next. webcit-ng is the big
one, but I've also been making a lot of changes in the background over the
last couple of months. These changes don't add new features, but they are
moving the remaining standalone data files into the database.
What part of the code?
I want to get this code into your hands, even if it's only a skeleton at this
point. It's a very good framework and when I get around to fleshing it out,
it's going to be a much nicer base than the current WebCit code. I think
what I'm going to do is offer it as a technology preview in the next
Thanks again mr IG.Mm... wouldn't I actually have a more or less "complete" development environment in the server already, thanks to Easy Install itself?AFAIU, only differences would be, I'm using git clone instead of the tar-ed files, and the git-cloned sources ship more individual components
Hmm. I'm trying to think of an easy way to make webcit-ng available without requiring a complete build environment.
Maybe a hidden option in Easy Install that will make it download and build that component?
Running in test server, which was installed from scratch a month ago with Centos 7.6 and latest Citadel through Easy Install.I do run Easy install script with certain frequency for update.
Are you building on the same server that runs your production Citadel system,
or a different one? The reason I am asking is because your production system
will already have the dependencies set up, especially if you ran Easy Install.
I apologize beforehand for this kind of question if it's a bit annoying; truth is this would be my very first time building something from source...
As mentioned, I git-cloned the whole Citadel tree (branch Master, since I didn't specify any branch to git).Now, I thought I could build only the
webcit-ng uses conf-IG-ure instead of GNU Autotools, so it doesn't need a
bootstrap script. Just run the configure script and it will take care of
itself.
I cloned from git, and noticed, as Citadel website says, that there's no configure script; it must be generated.
I already checked I have GNU Autoconf and Libtools, but thing is, webcit-ng directory doesn't have any bootstrap script.Could/should I use the one in webcit directory?
And for
Sure, you could run it on the same machine that runs your Citadel server,
just build it in another directory and run it on another port. You'll have
to build it from the git repository. It doesn't require any special privileges
and it won't interfere with your production system.
Is it possible to have both at same time, and in someway choosing either Webcit or Webcit-ng?
Or one does replace/overwrites the other?
If you're interested, you should get a webcit-ng running, just to check out
the build system and the progress made on it so far. It should build cleanly,
pretty much anywhere, and you can point it at any existing Citadel server
(such as your own production system, or even uncensored.citadel.org)
If you find a problem with another client, and can figure out where Citadel
is mis-speaking the protocol, I'm always willing to look at fixing that.
As for new features, it's not where I currently want to focus my energy.
I would rather work on getting webcit-ng up and running.
Thanks again.
Mm... may I take that something could be done at a later time regarding other XMPP clients, or is Citadel just ok with working just with Pidgin for the time being?
Thanks for the test. From your message in the other room I am concluding
that it's working properly now (minus the features that you correctly observed
are not implemented). This version is also running on Uncensored, so if anyone
wants to point their Pidgin client permanently at Uncensored, you
First, a delayed Happy New Year.
Finally! Long live XMPP! Thanks very much mr IG.I just had 2 horrible weeks due to the Christmas/New Year days and wasn't able to test anything until now.
I just tested with latest Pidgin again, and finally it did work.Just a couple of small issues I preferred to
Ok, that happened faster than I thought it would. :)
924 is running on Uncensored and is also downloadable via Easy Install.
Sorry if I wasn't clear about this: version 924 is not published yet !
It's in the git repository and I believe it's functionally complete, but
I have not tested it enough to release it to the world yet. I will probably
test it here on Uncensored first.
While I was working in this
Mr IG, glad to see back!!
Also, thanks very much for your recent work on XMPP.But I have bad news though...
I decided to make a new Centos installation from scratch, using latest ISO, updating it, then downloading and running easy install bash script to install Citadel from scratch. Everything
XMPP is working again. A change from about a year ago made the server stop
generating a default email address for new users if they didn't have one
configured.
Empty email addresses beget broken JIDs. I believe I have it fixed.
Now in the place where the default address change was
>But I didn't because I thought Citadel's XMPP server supported a
>thing called "resource binding":
>https://xmpp.org/rfcs/rfc3920.html#bind
>Citadel is not able to "generate a resource identifier on behalf of a
>client", and currently can only send a strange (misleading for me)
I did imagine so.
Thanks very much IG.
Hey everyone ... just letting you know this stuff is still on my radar, but
I'm buried deep in work right now ... when I come up for air we'll continue
looking at the XMPP stuff.
IG, if possible, could you provide a bit of advise as for what I could check in my Citadel user or other settings that makes XMPP to fail?
Based on what you said that it works perfectly for you, I'd like to try checking this first before attempting to go into the source code.
Thanks.
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