[Sprinklerforum] Re: WFD In Pump Suction Line

How about just a pressure switch? These are available in a listed configuration and would monitor the pipe integrity without the paddle issue. [Icon Description automatically generated] DAVID WILLIAMS, PE, FPE He/Him/His Senior Mechanical/Fire Protection Engineer See LHBcorp.com for states of

[Sprinklerforum] Re: DOD LOX maintenance buildings for airfield flightline

: Thursday, April 28, 2022 10:42 AM To: David Williams ; John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum Subject: RE: DOD LOX maintenance buildings for airfield flightline What codes are you required to follow, IBC/IFC or UFC? Is this US based or offshore? Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire

[Sprinklerforum] DOD LOX maintenance buildings for airfield flightline

We have a new small non-combustible building, LOX Maintenance Facility, used to store O2 tanks and LOX carts and maintain them. In addition to the tank/cart storage (gas room), there is a small maintenance area, two offices, and a toilet room. It appears that we will easily exceed the "basic" a

UFGS spec section 21 13 00.00 40 vs 21 13 13

Am I right in thinking that one should edit 21 13 00.00 40 for the piping leading into the fire riser room and delete the references to the sprinkler system (and any other unused interior piping) and specify the sprinkler system from the riser into the occupied space(s) using 21 13 13? David

Re: Material cost - best practice for a Corps of Engineer Project

MN, WI, MI, IA, IL, IN, ND, VT) (218) 279-2436 direct | (218) 310-2446 cell LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN From: Scott Uren Date: Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 4:46 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: David Williams Subject: RE: Material cost - best practice for a Corps of

Material cost - best practice for a Corps of Engineer Project

Having sprinkler contractors reprice an Air Force housing project we are working on. The RFP is a steel only job (tried to get approval for CPVC but no go). What are you seeing for materials that provide some cost control… Sch 7, galv thin wall, ?? David Toshio Williams, PE*, FPE – Lead MEP/FP

Re: FA not sprinkler question

Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:33:11 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: BRUCE VERHEI ; David Williams Subject: Re: FA not sprinkler question David, If your an IBC/IFC state then either chapter 4 or chapter 9, will call out a fire alarm system requirement. As for the

FA not sprinkler question

I’ve been asked to look at a new industrial building, generally unoccupied except for servicing, that has a fire and gas detection system and audible and visual notification devices. At this point I’m not sure this facility actually requires a FA system, as it might just be an owner requirement

RE: Fire Pumps and fire apparatus

We do a fair amount of design at an Air National Guard base that has a HP fire line to service various hangers and the associated AFFF systems. This system was installed before my time, but it does have a few hydrants on the system, I think mainly for flow testing as the system expands. I will

Re: Transfer Switches

Or you “shed” the refrigeration from the generator sizing during a fire event. That much ice cream will stay cold for the period of time the fire pump needs the power. David Toshio Williams, PE*, FPE (*Registered in MN, WI, MI, IA, IL, IN, ND, VT) (218) 279-2436 direct | (218) 310-2446 cell LHB,

fire protection of Transformer yard "under" parking ramp

We have a transformer yard at grade that is located under an multistory open parking structure. We caught it in time to have FR3 oil supplied in the non-FM utility company transformers and we believe we have the proper separation distances according to FM 5-4. We have 5 feet from non-combustible

Re: Hollow Core Concrete Seismic Braces

Many times there is a topping slab that can cover a through bolt and backing plate, or the precaster “could” install embedments. Takes lots of coordination! I like to spec embedments in parking ramp decks for the mains as it is such a corrosive environment and I can’t count on SS drill in anchor

Re: Location of hydrant valves in CA.

: Ken Wagoner Date: Friday, May 7, 2021 at 11:32 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: David Williams Subject: Re: Location of hydrant valves in CA. David, I was going to reply with the same reference, however John Denhardt got there ahead of me. It's worth noting that NF

Location of hydrant valves in CA.

A civil engineer friend of mine is working on a state project in California and there is a fight between the water purveyor and the state fire marshal as to the location of the hydrant valves. The water purveyor wants the valves to be right off the main and does not feel a need to keep the valve

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Fire Pump Sprk & Fire Flow Demand

I had a high school project about ten years ago on a green field site and we had access to a small high pressure low volume system and a low pressure low volume system. We ended up using the high pressure system to feed the domestic water and sprinkler (not the standpipes) system but the City re

Re: Metal Mesh Ceiling tile replacement

. Thanks, Skyler Bilbo 1700 S. Raney Street Effingham, IL 62401 217-819-6404 Direct 217-347-7315 Fax sbi...@wenteplumbing.com www.wenteplumbing.com<http://www.wenteplumbing.com> On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 8:54 AM David Williams via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>

Metal Mesh Ceiling tile replacement

We have a community college client that wants to replace standard ACT with a perforated metal mesh tile that is 60% open. My assumption is that change would require installation of heads above the ceiling in the area of the metal mesh, perhaps putting a bulkhead around the area with the mesh pan

Tyco LFP - antifreeze

Hey Scott and other cold weather practitioners in Fire Protection. Any feed back on the “new” Tyco LFP antifreeze. Looks like it may have some use in southern MN locations, but with Duluth at annual 99% extreme of -24.9 and 50 year extreme at -36.6 maybe not such a good idea yet. We plan on stic

Re: STANDPIPES NFPA 14

That’s funny as I have in design right now an exterior standpipe that has a wrap-around stairway so that the landings are separated both horizontally and vertically by a substantial amount as the stair wraps around the end of the building. So both types of standpipes in one! Due to the facility

Re: 13R and Well Pump?

In Minnesota there are State Fire Marshal rules that allow rural sites to use the domestic well as a fire sprinkler source. They do put some testing requirements in place, minimum well bore size, and minimum flow criteria. I have not recommended this solution as I feel there is a risk of the we

Re: Curbs for Containment

I was just looking at this issue for a turbine floor FP installation: FM data sheet 7-83 has some guidance on the spill control and drainage sizing for flammable liquid areas.. David Toshio Williams, PE, FPE (218) 279-2436 direct | (218) 310-2446 cell LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN From

Re: [EXTERNAL] Campus type water supply

We are “fixing” a similar arrangement at an Air National Guard Base. Originally they brought fire water used on site to two large underground storage tanks, then had electric and diesel vertical inline pumps to serve high pressure fire flow needs, think AFFF & HEF. At some point they installed a

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Trouble getting Architects to give Revit files

Our office will always provide pdf, AutoCAD (if the job was created in it) or Revit, but we WILL ask you to sign a release/NDA on our part of the work. There are some military jobs we do that we “need” Revit coordination drawing due to the RFP and sometimes finding contractors in a given area t

Re: N1.85 graph paper

I’ve used the forms that are produced by 185 graph (http://www.reckonit.com/) as you can put your logo on them $250 and does some tree/branch hydraulic calculations if you don’t have or need a full featured hydraulic calculation program like sprinkcad. 30 day demo. Alternate Outlook

RE: Attic/Concealed space access to sprinkler heads

tivities. Ron Greenman rongreen...@gmail.com<mailto:rongreen...@gmail.com> 253.576.9700 The Universe is monstrously indifferent to the presence of man. -Werner Herzog, screenwriter, film director, author, actor and opera director (1942-) On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 12:41 PM David Willia

RE: Attic/Concealed space access to sprinkler heads

Nope I think 6/12 top surface 4/12 lower.. David T Williams – Lead MEP/FP Engineer LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN. From: Travis Mack Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 2:40 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: b...@firebyknight.com; David Williams Subject: Re: Attic/Concealed

RE: Attic/Concealed space access to sprinkler heads

as. David T Williams - Lead MEP/FP Engineer LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN. From: Scott Futrell Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 2:08 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: David Williams Subject: RE: Attic/Concealed space access to sprinkler heads David, Interesting qu

RE: Attic/Concealed space access to sprinkler heads

forum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of David Williams via Sprinklerforum Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 12:43 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Cc: David Williams Subject: Attic/Concealed spac

RE: Captive Aire Systems

At least one of the Twin Cities local jurisdictions want to see these system or fire protection sprinklers installed in all kitchen hoods. The Fire Marshall want to have protection even when the agent has been expended (such as an agent only system). (they also want sprinklers to back up clean a

Attic/Concealed space access to sprinkler heads

I have a project intended to be fully sprinkled with a combustible attic that tapers from 2' to 4 ' without being filled to within 2 inches of the deck with insulation. So I am planning on a dry pipe system with standard heads as the design of the attic does not allow the effective use of specia

Re: Altitude Valve for Above Ground Storage Tank

Cla-Val make a float operated trim... might be the way to go. Years ago I used Hudson fill valves ( I think these are used on Agricultural tanks) for this application, but now thinking they are not listed so might not pass with certain inspectors. Alternate Outlook ...on

Re: [EXTERNAL] cathodic protection

I had to specify and design a retrofit tandpipe system in a highway tunnel system at least 25 years ago with SS lightweight pipe (Sch. 10) including SS groove joint fitting and hanger material…. It’s on my daily commute and seems to be holding up except the installing contractor clearly used som

RE: Hood System - Question

How is this different than an Ansul Piranha system (as far as the connection to the sprinkler system?). We are required to use something like the Piranha in some jurisdictions so the system continues to function after the agent is gone (same thing for Clean Agent.. must have 20-60 minute duratio

RE: Sketching software

Just like you. Skills too far gone on AutoCAD for quick details. If my crew is gone or too busy for my projects I just end up hand drawing it and scanning it for small details and drawings... (some of those old piping templates in the dusty drawer/box below the desk help)! I've tried Sketchup..

Re: sealing sprinkler head penetrations

As someone who also wears an energy efficiency hat... I would say the openings have the potential of causing more leakage than desired in the envelope. I think you are stuck with some sort of seal between the piping and the air barrier (in this case the drywall). See https://buildingscience.com

Re: Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1

Nov 7, 2016, at 11:43, David Williams mailto:david.willi...@lhbcorp.com>> wrote: Scott (and others), I agree with you that this is not a matter of “actually” providing any equivalent fire protection to a 2 hr wall. This is checking the box on a Code requirement. That being said, I don’t see t

RE: Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1

they are out of service for any reason scenario? It has been used and published, but not tested. I apologize if I’m not following… Scott Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2 Cell: (612) 759-5556 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of David Williams

RE: Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1

Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org<http://www.firesprinkler.org/> On Nov 4, 2016, at 12:44 PM, David Williams mailto:david.willi...@lhbcorp.com>> wrote: We have an newly constructed open parking garage with a surrounding skywalk. The building official i

Wall Wetting per IBC - 2012, Chapter 31, 3104.5 Exception 1

We have an newly constructed open parking garage with a surrounding skywalk. The building official is now asking for fire barriers complying with Chapter 31 between the two and the owner and architect want to deal with this using the exception that uses fire protection sprinklers for equivalency

RE: Underground in Covered Trench

Just saw this product yesterday, has pipe supports built in which would be a benefit: http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductsList.aspx?NodeKey=387877 Generally I like the foam insert type but normally not using it to support pipe (available with solid cover for up to truck loads): http://www.abtdrai

RE: Test header on riser

1:59 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Test header on riser Why do you need to demonstrate the flow rate? The purpose of the forward flow test is to fully operate the back flow valve. A flow at 500 GPM will not open the valve fully? On Jul 14, 2016 9:52 AM, "

RE: Test header on riser

As an engineer who just issued a design with such a test header (COE project where they "suggested" we look at this provision in the design). My view is that the FDC is fine for project with less than 500 gpm flow requirements. If over that (and in my case the flow was 1100 gpm), then we need a

RE: Fire pond available volume

9.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of David Williams Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 5:48 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; s

RE: Fire pond available volume

sion 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of David Williams Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2016 4:57 PM To: sprinklerfo...@firesprinkler.org Subject: Fire pond available volume Probably about 15 or

Fire pond available volume

Probably about 15 or 20 years ago I did this calculation and even worked in the reduction in ice cover by using a bubbler system, but I can't find my calculations or notes. Google isn't getting me anywhere either. The current question revolves around a petroleum terminal ... city connection, b

Re: Fuel Tank Whistle

Old technology… don’t think that would be legal any longer. Usually there would need to be a high fill alarm and a float type shut off valve if the tank is remote from the fill location. (plus fill location spill container). On my Mac, not my office computer... David Toshio Williams, PE, FPE, L

RE: Healthclub on top of parking structure

I believe this is also somewhat controlled by whether the buildings are considered one building as opposed to having a building separation wall. We are in the midst of a parking structure that by itself would not require sprinkler system, but since the owner/architect did not want to create a bu

Re: Antifreeze Solutions

Alternatively...find someone with ASHRAE handbooks... The CD that comes with the fundamentals book has lowest temps based on various probabilities. David Toshio Williams, PE LHB, Inc. Performance•Driven•Design ...sent from the cloud through the tubes! > On Jan 28, 2015, at 1:35

Re: Black Steel Pipe Outside

My relativly new time share, beachside in Florida has black steel sprinkler lines in the lower level open parking - hangers and pipe are just rusting away…. just makes me mad that it was allow to be installed that way by the building inspector. On my Mac, not my office computer... David Toshio

Re: NFPA-13 & Domestic

Actually, some jurisdictions in MN still want the solenoid valve, even with the calculation, so we have just been bringing in separate domestic and fire services. David Toshio Williams, FPE LHB, Inc. Performance•Driven•Design ...sent from the cloud through the tubes! On Dec 27

RE: Project Specifications

George, you've done it again... made it all clear for all of us! Hear, hear! David Toshio Williams, FPE, LEED-AP O+M LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN -Original Message- From: George Church [mailto:g...@rowesprinkler.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 10:29 AM To: sprinklerforu

RE: Project Specifications

Just as a contractor has to make some sort of assumptions on what sort of time is required to complete a project, so does the design professional, we have only time and knowledge to sell so excessive time equals extra cost. So... it's a judgment call, excessive is NOT clearing up a legitimate

RE: Project Specifications

Sorry folks, I have to defend at least the idea of controlling the number of RFIs. Clearly there is an element out there that tries to bury the design team with paper work as a method to slow down the construction process, increase profit, and move the blame on to the design professionals, espe

Re: Shutoff at Service Entrance

Actually looking at something like this right now, except with actual UG main. The existing UG will have a parking ramp built over it, the Code calls the combined ramp and existing building "one" building, so putting a PIV at the edge of the new ramp and installing a new PE fire plus domestic se

RE: Good one for a Friday

We do some design work on Crude oil pumping stations and basically don't provide fire protection with sprinklers for most stations. In one case the AHJ required a fire protection system (one of the Illinois counties) and a water mist system was the only way to handle the hazard. David Toshio W

Re: Pool areas - SS hanger danger

the potential for galvanic corrosion. The use of dielectric unions is recommended, however, this is likely to be cost prohibited unless the pipe diameters are very small. Use of the same metal type throughout the entire system is highly recommended. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

Re: Pool areas - SS hanger danger

Stainless steel hangers are a potential problem. The tension on the material and the chlorine environment cause stress corrosion cracking. In at least one high profile case an entire suspended ceiling came down in a pool area due to the use of SS suspension wires. So don't use SS in support applica

RE: Water Meters

Inc. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of David Williams Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 9:53 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Water Meters http://www.onicon.com

RE: Water Meters

http://www.onicon.com/Flowmeters.html David Toshio Williams, PE, LEED-AP O+M High Performance Projects Principal LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN -Original Message- From: Brian Harris [mailto:br...@firstdefensefire.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 8:38 AM To: sprinklerforum

RE: sprinkler heads in exterior decks or balconies

I believe the point is to protect the structure above from a fire below. No balcony or roof, no exterior sprinkler required. David Toshio Williams, PE, LEED-AP O+M High Performance Projects Principal LHB, Inc. | PERFORMANCE DRIVEN DESIGN -Original Message- From: Joel Chaim [mailto:acti

RE: Digital Signature

Not legal in some states to do it that way. I think I saw if you are a citizen of IL, you can get a free one from the state as a way to facilitate doing business. David Toshio Williams, PE, LEED-AP O+M High Performance Projects Principal LHB, Inc. Performance . Driven . Design -Original

Re: FPE

I would say it is actually quite a bit more than just fire protection sprinklers, the NCEES test also cover passive fire protection, exiting, smoke control, clean agents and other more exotic suppressions systems, and fire alarm systems. I am a FPE by virtue of taking the exam, but after many y

RE: Min bury depth of tank

We've put them under the buildings they serve, otherwise the bury depth gets to be too much (fiberglass are limited to bury depth). David Toshio Williams, PE, LEED-AP O+M High Performance Projects Principal LHB, Inc. 21 West Superior Street Suite 500 Duluth, MN 55802 218-279-2436 Mobile 218-310-2