[Sprinklerforum] Re: Backflow In Stairwell

I think he was being sarcastic about locating a backflow and riser in a stair tower. Joe Burtell Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204-4653 406-861-4507 From: Steve Leyton Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2024 8:34 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject

[Sprinklerforum] ESFR Spacing

Is the spacing of 12' in building less than 30' in table 14.2.8.2.1 of the 2019 NFPA 13 along the branchline or can it be between the branchlines? I feel it's along the branchline but can't find my confirmation. Joe Burtell | SET, CFPS Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204-4653 406-861-4507 3004

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Residential heads in stairways

and almost no fire load is present due to egress. Look very close ate the FAQ of 7.2.1, NFPA 13R requires only that the design discharge, number of design sprinklers, sprinkler coverage, and position of sprinklers comply with NFPA 13, for areas outside the dwelling. Joe Burtell | SET, CFPS Fire

[Sprinklerforum] Lateral Braces and Flex Coup

I do need clearance and I use flex couplings because I don't have the clearance necessary, do I have to add additional lateral bracing because of the flexible couplings? The hole is not used to support the pipe, there will be hangers to the tops of the steel I-beams. 2019 NFPA 13 Joe Burtell |

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pump Suction Components

I agree with Steve here and to add my two cents, it is a lot lighter and makes for a quicker and easier installation. It's probably half of the weight. I order GxG OS valves all the time and there are no lead times. Joe Burtell | SET, CFPS Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204-4653 406-861-4507

[Sprinklerforum] Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: ESFR Below Mezzanine

I don’t disagree with you, but I can’t help to think that we don’t apply this logic with in-racks. If I have aerosols, other flammable liquids, etc.. I threat that different than the overhead, different design, different sprinklers. Joe Burtell | SET, CFPS Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204

[Sprinklerforum] Re: ESFR Below Mezzanine

or they can be different (CMDA, etc..) Joe Burtell | SET, CFPS Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204-4653 406-861-4507 From: Prahl, Craig Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2023 9:28 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: ESFR Below Mezzanine

[Sprinklerforum] ESFR Below Mezzanine

is really treated like an obstruction? I think it would be treated like in-racks would and have its own design based on what's under the mezzanine. Joe Burtell | SET, CFPS Fire Sprinkler Manager D C 406-204-4653 406-861-4507 3004 1st Ave South Billings, MT 59101 Office: 406-652-7697

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Metal Grating Clip for Fire Sprinkler Pipe Hanger

In the past, I have done (2) ceiling flanges, one on the top and one on the bottom of the grate to make a sandwich. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Nitrogen and CPVC

Good question. Sorry, thoughts on applying it to CPVC. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

[Sprinklerforum] Nitrogen and CPVC

regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long

[Sprinklerforum] Re: Typical Soda Warehouse

Yes, the commodity is exposed and unexpanded and 2016 is the current edition in Montana. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.co

[Sprinklerforum] Typical Soda Warehouse

ve done designs for these before. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor

Group of Pipe Obstruction

to the correct section, please? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor q

Re: Partial height walls in OH occupancies.

I would think you have to space to the walls or have the walls stop 18" below the ceiling which it appears it does. The obstructions change for things below 18" and the chart stops at 18" as well. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax

Re: Fire Pump Backflow

to have enough pressure to initially open the backflow until the fire pump can get going to keep water moving. I just didn't want to try all these things if someone on the forum already did and failed. That is the beauty of all you smart people on here. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image

Re: Fire Pump Backflow

Yes, we have pottable water being taken from the same tanks. This is a rural high school and this is their own water system that feeds the school. So I need the backflow for that reason. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653

Fire Pump Backflow

regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains long

Re: Pool maintenance area

pancy and should not be treated as such when applying 9.2.10. Often the presence of an access hatch or other means to allow for equipment maintenance is misconstrued as allowing occupancy of such a space. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text

Re: Pool maintenance area

Could you treat it as a non-combustible concealed space below a floor with no fueled-fired devices? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Em

Dry System Idle Pallets

Can you use a dry system for protection for Idle Pallets? I know ESFR has to be wet but what if I'm using CMDA? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Em

Re: Standard HSW at 12 to 18 inches down

I would really watch if they are listed for use in obstructed construction, most are just smooth flat, just FYI. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Em

Re: Hotel or Condo

NFPA 13 only allows omission for hotels and motels, so I think the answer is, there is no omission allowed in the "condo" areas. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Stree

Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: Multiple System Calculation

If the FAQ is true, then what is the point of 23.4.4.2.4? One says it has to be 1500 no matter what and the other says you just apply the extra GPM at the furthest branchline? Don't they contradict each other? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax

Re: Multiple System Calculation

design area (Area/Density design method) until you run out of ordinary hazard or reach the minimum design area. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Em

Re: Multiple System Calculation

Thanks, guys, that is what I was thinking as well. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

Multiple System Calculation

says it does not apply. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor q

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Window Sprinklers

I agree. Yes, the assemblies are required to be rated. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

Re: Window Sprinklers

million, it is now void of it's listing which the building code and NFPA required to be listed for such use. The last part is the liability as a small contractor. The architect does not want to spend the money to put in the proper glass. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small

Window Sprinklers

I have an architect that wants to put additional window sprinklers below a horizontal mullion. I am absolutely against this idea as it's not listed or approved for this. Has anyone run into this situation? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile

Re: Software Platform

Mike, I was a classic SprinkCAD user and beta test for about 10 years, I am now an AutoSPRINk and beta tester. You can contact me off the forum for any info. I would not use anything but AutpSPRINK. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text

Re: Backflow Prevention Valves

NFPA 25 2014 13.6.2.2 Where hydrants or inside hose stations are located downstream of the backflow pre- venter, the forward flow test shall include hose stream demand. I guess this answers the question, now to get this into 13. Best regards, *Joe Burtell* On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 8:58 PM J H

Re: Backflow Prevention Valves

The is a restaurant with only hydrants upstream of the backflow and no inside hose stations. Best regards, *Joe Burtell* On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 4:46 PM Bruce Verhei via Sprinklerforum < sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > Does the outside hose allowance flow through

Backflow Prevention Valves

allowance only. It does not state that but I have an AHJ requiring the outside hose allowance to be applied to the forward flow. Does anyone have any information that better defines what hose allowance would be applicable? Best regards, *Joe Burtell

Stretch Wrap

I have a warehouse storing "stretch wrap" on pallets. This is used to encapsulate pallet loads. The manufacturer does not say what it's made from. [image: image.png] I am assuming it's some type of poly. Does anyone have any thoughts on if this would be a group A plastic? Best rega

Re: Branchline Restraint

no jurisdictions that give guidance, it's all per 13. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

Re: Branchline Restraint

need to be? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor quality remains

Branchline Restraint

Are there any restrictions on using power-driven studs for branchline restraint? In the diagram, they show what looks like a wedge bolt anchor but I can't see where there is any size or requirements given for fasteners used for branchline restraint. [image: image.png] Best regards, *Joe Burtell

Autopeak

Is there anything in NFPA 13 that discusses auto peaking if you have a grid in let's say an office space that is all cut up? Seems almost impossible to do it without drawings remote areas manually and calculating several groups of rooms. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell

Re: Fire Hose Valve Clearance When in Valve Cabinet

. The 2 in. (50 mm) clearance ensures that a fire fighter wearing thick fire gloves can easily operate the valve. Where a pressure-reducing valve (PRV) is used, a deeper cabinet might be necessary due to the size of the PRV. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone

Re: Rack Flue Space Hangers

[image: image.png] Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com *“**The bitterness of poor q

Re: Floor Control Drain Pipe SIze

sults impossible to correlate. A better solution would be a means to test the full flow of the backflow device that is separate from the main drain that allows for proper drainage." Does this seem the opposite of 16.10.4.8? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] P

Floor Control Drain Pipe SIze

into it. To further this discussion, if I have a riser room with 10 riser and the drains are all tied together, there is no requirement to upsize that drain pipe that I can see. So why one and not the other? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204

Re: Atrium Sprinklers

This is a building code driven issue. It is going to depend on what the architect did for fire-resistive ratings. It would be up to the A team to tell you what is required. In some section, listed sprinklers are now required. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* **PLEASE NOTE NEW PHONE

Re: Indoor Trampoline Park

in the existing sprinkler system, this section is not intended to require the replacement of existing standard-response sprinklers with quick-response sprinklers. If he wants to argue it's a light hazard, that's what you have to get past for these to apply. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* **PLEASE

Re: Indoor Trampoline Park

what he wants. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* **PLEASE NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER** [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-204-4653 <++1-406-204-4653>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

Re: Concealed spaces in mill construction

I would agree. That rule did also not apply to composite wood joists in previous editions, so your logic is on track. Some of the listed concealed space sprinkles are listed for other construction types but it's another to pay for the special sprinklers. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS

Hydrostatic Testing

be isolated and tested at not less than 200 psi (13.8 bar) for 2 hours. 25.2.1.4.2 Modifications that cannot be isolated, such as relocated drops, shall require testing at system working pressure. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* **PLEASE NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER** [image: Burtell Fire_Small

Re: High School Weight Room

I'm not saying to regulate at a local level, it should be done by UL, FM, IBC, IFC, etc... We didn't have this toxic stuff we have today 50 years ago. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N

Re: High School Weight Room

are a major problem with fires, I agree with Steve. I'm sure the walls of the band practice booth are full of plastics and foam, should they be OH or EX? Maybe a better approach would be to not allow these toxic materials in the first place? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell

Re: High School Weight Room

was a distribution storage room for new mats, that would be different. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

Re: NFPA 13, 2016

in installations connecting the sprinkler system piping to sprinklers shall be installed in accordance with the requirements of the listing, including any installation instructions. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-

High School Weight Room

Does anyone have any information supporting high school wrestling, fitness, and weight rooms being OH2 due to the rubber floors or foam mats? It seems overkill to me but new information is always coming out. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax

Grinnell E-2 4" Dry Valve

Anyone have a datasheet or friction loss for a GRINNELL MODEL E-2, 4 IN.-1931 TO 1971 Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.co

Re: wide obstruction rule in 13D system

If the rule is not in NFPA 13D, you cannot just apply NFPA 13. It does not mean it's not to be looked at but NFPA 13D is only worried about life safety, property protection is not it's primary objection. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile

Re: Small Air Compressor?

I would check out C-AIRE, they make great compressors. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfi

Re: S & L Rule

Me personally, I would treat the beam as a wall, the spray pattern cannot carry over to the next row on the other side, so why would I carry over its dimension for the SxL Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-

Re: S & L Rule

Is the spacing along the branchline measured along the floor or the roof pitch? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com We

Re: Corrosion

I have you done any test for stray electrical currents or improper bonding/grounding? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.co

Re: Fire Pump Motors

This is a new installation. The manufacturer is AC and they get their motors from US motors. Where does the exemption come from? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billin

Re: Fire Pump Motors

I am being told this by the motor manufacturer. They say they have to do this by DOE requirements. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Em

Fire Pump Motors

moved it to Premium. Only motors with B design codes can be used for fire pumps. A special motor that would meet this requirement was a special build" Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 11

Fire Pumps

moved it to Premium. Only motors with B design codes can be used for fire pumps. A special motor that would meet this requirement was a special build" Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 11

Re: Radiant heat panels

I would get the manufacturers data sheet. It should have a side profile with the heat zones shown so you can see what the temps are and how far out and above. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>

Re: Storage Under Sloped Ceilings

A slope greater than 2/12 is beyond NFPA. He would need to install a flat ceiling in order to use NFPA 13 and rack storage. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT

Re: CAD drawings

I use Print2CAD and it works fairly well for the most part. http://www.backtocad.com/pdf-to-dwg-converter.html Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Em

Re: Windshields

Some are in cardboard boxes, no packaging. Some of the raw windshields and windshields in cardboard boxes are on wood pallets. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billin

Re: Windshields

Yes, these are automotive windshields for passenger and commercial vehicles. Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site

Windshields

Can anyone tell where in the code or what windshields are classified as for protection in racks? Would they be Class 1,2,3,4 or Group A, etc... Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text *406-545-0784 <++1-406-545-0784>* 116 N. 11th

Re: Question for any member of Installation Sub-TC

in-rack control valve in order to limit the extent of any single impairment. I would say, yes or it moved? Best regards, *Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS* [image: Burtell Fire_Small] PH: 406-652-7697 Fax: 406-652-7743 | Cell: 406-861-4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http

Re: Hanger spacing question

the overall distance between hangers does not exceed the requirements in Table 9.2.2.1(a) and Table 9.2.2.1(b). The cumu- lative distance includes changes in horizontal direction. Multiple consecutive sections of pipe should be permitted to omit hangers. [image: Inline image 1] Best regards, *Joe

RE: antifreeze solutions

Thanks Cecil but I am only referring to existing homes and buildings. I know what to do with any new stuff. Just remember the mistakes Central made and what it cost them with the recalls. I see this as the same thing. NFPA has made a big mistake and they just get to walk away? Joe Burtell

RE: antifreeze solutions

I am not aware of any such product. I heard a rumor Lubrizol was working on something. I would like to thank NFPA for making such a mess out of this anti-freeze issue. What am I supposed to tell the owner when he asks me who is going to pay for this on existing systems? Joe Burtell

RE: antifreeze solutions

me looking like the stupid one. NFPA needs to do 100% better for existing systems. They leave me hanging with all the liability. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent

RE: antifreeze solutions

-Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Joe Burtell Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:15 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: antifreeze solutions Ya, maybe back in 2001 they could have

RE: antifreeze solutions

All NFPA did was transfer the real world problem onto contractors to figure out what to do with existing systems. They simply washed their hands of the liability and left it up to the contractor to fend for themselves. What's next for this industry? How many black eyes can we keep taking? Joe

RE: antifreeze solutions

no options but antifreeze. Am I supposed to tell them I'm sorry but I can't help you and now they are on their own. This is where NFPA screwed all of us and the pooch. Enough about this, I'll step off my soap box. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org

RE: Decommissioning a system

or removed. Pay attention to the Last sentence, REMOVED. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 9:32 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE

RE: Electrical Rooms

hoistway door sill are in vertical alignment. (a) Elevator electrical equipment shall be weatherproof (Type 4 as specified in NEMA 250). (b) Elevator wiring, except traveling cables, shall be identified for use in wet locations in accordance with the requirements in NFPA 70. Joe Burtell

RE: Electrical Rooms

Elevator machine rooms can only have sprinkler pipe feeding sprinklers for that room only. Pipes that are foreign to that room like FDC or main drain lines are not allowed. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun

No. 12, 440 lb Wire

Can anyone give me a source for buying No. 12, 440 lb wire for use with doing restraint for branchlines? Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com

Soldered vs Brazed Joints

Can someone tell be if soldered joints are allowed by NFPA 13 for pre-action systems or is only brazed joints allowed. It looks like melting temps are the issue between the different methods. Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell

Underground Clearance

Where did the underground clearance for underground move to in the 07' or 10' of NFPA 13? Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com

RE: Underground Clearance

No, the clearance from the foundation concrete floor. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lindner Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:17 PM To: sprinklerforum

RE: Underground Clearance

Thanks Thom. 9.3.4 does reference other pipes but not underground specifically. A.23.1.6.2 is what I was looking for. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Wednesday

NFPA 30 Layout E

for in-rack sprinklers. 16.6.3.6 Water demand at point of supply shall be calculated separately for in-rack and ceiling sprinklers and shall be based on the greater demand. These all call for the overhead NOT to be balanced with the in-rack but nothing is mentioned for scheme E. Best regards, Joe

RE: NFPA 30 Layout E

Can someone reply off line if they received this original message below. Any takes to answer the original question? Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Joe Burtell Sent: Monday

Preaction Drains and Pitch

is less than 5 gal (18.9 L), one of the following arrangements shall be provided: Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com  Please consider the environment

RE: Gas systems replacing sprinklers

Here is what our local fire marshal got back from the ICC Subject: IFC 904.2 question Hi Scott, I have a question for you. Section 904.2 states that Automatic fire-extinguishing systems shall not be considered alternatives for the purposes of exceptions or reductions allowed by other

Dry Valve Pressure Set-Up

Does anyone out there have a handy excel file that would automatically calculate the air maintenance device cut-in, cut-out and the PS-40 high and low settings based on the static pressure plugged into the formula? Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697

Sensing Lines

be of 1⁄2 in. (15 mm) nominal size. Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com Please consider the environment before printing this email

RE: Bonding of sprinkler systems

To anyone who wants I can forward 2 good pictures that we can debate whether it's bonding or grounding. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo Sent: Monday

RE: Drop Wood Ceiling

it meets one of the exceptions I would say it requires sprinklers above the ceiling as well. Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com  please don't print

Hose Allowance

, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com  please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to ___ Sprinklerforum

RE: System subdivision

said a word. Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com  please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to -Original Message- From

RE: QR vs SSP sprinklers in LH vs OH delivery

NFPA 13 02' A.8.3.3.1 When renovations occur in an existing building and no changes are made in the existing sprinkler system, this section is not intended to require the replacement of existing standard sprinklers with quick-response sprinklers. Might work for you. Best regards, Joe Burtell

RE: NFPA 14i

The extra pressure required, does it not come from the big red pumper truck parked in front of the burning building? Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS Burtell Fire Protection Phone: 406.652.7697 Fax: 406.652.7743 Cell: 406.861.4507 Email: j...@burtellfire.com Web Site: http

RE: NFPA 14i

on their use? Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 1:32 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: NFPA 14i Not if it's a high

RE: pump failure/flow alarm

Are the jockey and fire pump not using sensing lines? Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:07 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org

RE: Incompatible products with CPVC

Sure seems like CPVC is too fragile for something as serious as fire protection. The list of compatible products is far from complete. When Ridgid dark cutting oil is not on the list, seems something is not right. Joe Burtell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun

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