[Biofuel] NY Marks New Wind Power Record
View Online: http://readme.readmedia.com/NYISO-Marks-New-Wind-Power-Record/10688294 NYISO Marks New Wind Power Record RENSSELAER, NY (03/09/2015)(readMedia)-- Electricity generated by wind power in New York reached new records at the start of March, according to the New York Independent System Operator (NYISO). The new record of 1,524 megawatts (MW) was set during the 1:00 pm hour on Monday, March 2, 2015. At the time when wind output reached 1,524 MW, it provided 7% of the 20,894 MW of New York's total system demand. One megawatt is approximately the amount of electricity required to supply 800 to 1,000 homes. Wind power continues to grow as a power resource and the NYISO continues to optimize our electric system's use of renewable power, said NYISO President and CEO Stephen G. Whitley. NYISO market design and grid operations have contributed to New York State's leadership in wind development. Because a wind resource's ability to generate electricity depends on the force and duration of wind, its output may not always match the system's demand for electricity. The NYISO integrates wind resources through its forecasting techniques and power dispatch procedures. The NYISO developed procedures and deployed software to collect forecasts and real time meteorological data from generating sites to predict the output of each facility. Wind power data is fed directly into the NYISO operational systems that determine the balance of electricity supply and demand. The NYISO dispatches resources to meet electrical demand using a least-cost, bid-based system that recognizes transmission constraints and reliability requirements. The NYISO was the first grid operator in the nation to enhance its wind management system by enabling wind plant operators to submit offer prices reflecting their cost of operation. That competitive bid process allows the NYISO to evaluate wind power alongside all other generating resources. New York's total wind capacity is currently 1,744 MW, with another 2,000 MW of wind power proposals being studied by the NYISO for interconnection to the grid. New York's wind capacity has grown 3,500% from its 2005 level of 48 MW. Sustained growth of economical, emission-free, renewable power resources is essential to meeting New York's energy challenges. The NYISO is proud to be playing a vital role in that effort, Whitley noted. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels Hurting Environment, More Than Helping
Can't help but respond. The article develops an argument for its conclusion ( title) from the following statement: “Some organizations have advocated for a bioenergy target of meeting 20 percent of the world’s total energy demand by the year 2050 Some organizations ? (Kind of like I heard somewhere ) Understand the problem this would present even for the most enthusiastic supporter of biofuels. - In 2008 the world used ~143,851 TWh (~485,715 Quadrillion BTU's) of energy. By 2012 this increased by ~4% while the population increased by roughly 5%. Interesting that population increased faster than energy use. (Kudos to energy efficiency/conservation). At the same time, the very energy sources the author favors over biofuels (ex: solar) have increased at a faster rate than the non-renewables that biofuels are intended to replace. Is it fair to assume that this enthusiasm for energy generated by solar, wind, water will continue? If so, it would be silly for any organization to advocate for biofuels composing 20% of total energy consumption while the very sources that biofuels can replace (fossil fuels) are making up less and less of the total energy picture. Add to this: Transportation made up 27.3% (26,740 TWh) of the total world energy consumption in 2008. It is here, in transportation, that biofuels can have the greatest impact, however, it is in the transportation segment that the % of energy demand, compared to the entire energy picture, decreased, though slightly, from 2000. Dr. Jeffrey Sachs, director of Columbia University's Earth Institute, proposes, in his book The Age of Sustainable Development (2015), sustainable solutions to climate change including electric cars powered by sustainable sources such as solar, rather than internal combustion vehicles. Sounds sensible to me. Note: Global stock of PEV's on the road rose from 100,000 in 2011 to 180,000 in 2012, to 405,000 in 2013. This increase in sales far surpasses overall increases in auto sales in general. U.S. sales of electric vehicles rose by more than 70% from 2013 to 2014. ***The very sector that provides the best opportunity for biofuels is, itself, moving away from the energy dense liquid fuels that biofuels are intended to replace. To meet a 20 percent biofuels target by 2050, Searchinger writes, “humanity would need to at least double the world’s annual harvest of plant material in all its forms. Those increases would have to come on top of the already large increases needed to meet growing food and timber needs. Even assuming large increases in efficiency, the quest for bioenergy at a meaningful scale is both unrealistic and unsustainable.” Does the author think we are morons? (no offense to morons) If that 20% seems to come from somewhere, it is a number used by many municipalities as a goal for % of biofuels used by municipal vehicles. It is part of overall sustainability goals. It is also part of the goal of many countries to move toward decreased fossil fuel use in vehicles by increasing biofuel use. NOT 20% of overall energy demand 20% is also the level of BD that many manufacturers approve for use in their vehicles. (Manufacturers of gasoline vehicles approve E10 (10% ethanol) and flex fuel vehicles can use E100 although it can be difficult to find E85 (85% ethanol/15% gasoline). Tom On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 16:32:27 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1267061-biofuels-hurting-environment-more-than-helping/ [The WRI 'study' that just won't die. Kind of like the claims that the Keystone XL pipeline would create over 40,000 full-time jobs in the U.S. (reality bite: that's actually 35 permanent full-time jobs in the U.S. - 2-digit number, no trailing zeroes.)] Biofuels Hurting Environment, More Than Helping By Mike Gaworecki February 28, 2015 A new report from the World Resources Institute finds that dedicating land to the production of biofuels, a form of renewable energy made from plants, may undermine efforts to achieve a sustainable food future, combat climate change, and protect forests. The global population hit seven billion in 2011 and is expected to grow to nine billion in 2050. Feeding all those people without chopping down forests for agriculture and livestock will already be a difficult task, according to Tim Searchinger, a senior fellow at WRI who wrote the report. Dedicating land to the production of bioenergy crops will make it much harder. “The bottom line is, the world only has so much land, and we are going to struggle to produce all the additional food we need by 2050 without cutting down more forests,” Searchinger told mongabay.com. “And if you add bioenergy to that it makes it virtually impossible.” The problem, of course, is that if you dedicate land to growing crops like sugarcane, corn, soybeans, or wood
Re: [Biofuel] Pittsburgh to Run City Trucks on Biodiesel | Domestic Fuel
Yeah, yeah. Maybe material incompatibility issues as well: - replace rubber fuel lines seals - heated fuel tank for BD Some of the disasters blamed on BD really were the result of one of its virtues: good solvent; cleaned out residue from tanks and fuel lines clogged filters. The BD I used in the diesel that I ran year round was treated with winterized petro diesel, 30-40% petro when it got below 30F. That, and a block heater and it ran in cold weather. I like the feedstock, all co-products, wastes of other industries. - USED veg oil - oil from ethanol industry (fermentation does not involve the oil; can be pressed out prior to fermentation and used). - rendered animal fat; but will have a high gel point Tom On Fri, 20 Feb 2015 07:24:08 -0700 Zeke Yewdall zyewd...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds like they are installing a dual tank system to allow starting on diesel then switching to biodiesel later to prevent jelling issues. If it were just running on biodiesel in weather above 30F or so, my typical proceedure is just to have a few spare fuel filters handy. usually somewhere in the $10 to $50 each range, not $7500 Z On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:12 AM, Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://domesticfuel.com/2015/02/19/pittsburgh-to-run-city- trucks-on-biodiesel/ [So, what do you need to do to a diesel truck to run it on biodiesel which costs $7,500 per truck? And how much green fuel do you have to burn to save more than $7,500 per truck, so it will actually save the city money, when petro-diesel is selling for less than $3 a gallon? This site ( http://www.altfuelprices.com/stations/BD/Pennsylvania/Pittsburgh/) says this station (http://www.bbapgh.com/) is selling biodiesel at $5.29 a gallon. I guess that depends on how much the state alt fuel grants are paying.] Pittsburgh to Run City Trucks on Biodiesel Posted on February 19, 2015 by John Davis The City of Pittsburgh soon could be running some of its trucks on biodiesel. This article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette says a proposal is before the city council to enter into a $150,000 agreement with Optimus Technologies to convert about 20 Department of Public Works trucks to run on the green fuel, which will reduce emissions and save the city money. Grant Ervin, the city’s sustainability manager, said Optimus’ Vector fuel system was tested on five municipal trucks in a pilot program that started in 2013. The goal is to add it to other city vehicles as an analysis of the city’s fleet needs continues. “That’s what really exciting about it,” Mr. Ervin said, adding that part of the cost of the program will be covered by state alternative fuel grants. “For us, it’s a tool we can extend to other vehicles. … What the Optimus technology does is basically create hybrid vehicles.” In cold weather, when biofuel can be plagued by “gelling,” the trucks can be started on conventional diesel fuel and switched to biofuel when it warms up, said Optimus CEO Colin Huwyler. The biodiesel that could be used would be made from recycled cooking oil, non food-grade corn oil from the ethanol industry and rendered animal fat. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Yale Environment 360: Solar Shingles Made from Common Metals Offer Cheaper Energy Option
Interesting weave developing to the term being competitive w.
coal.
First: a ridiculous benchmark ... causing artificial inertia.
Then: using coal as a benchmark being arbitrary and capricious
Then: the notion that cost effectiveness is only applied to solar.
1. If the inertia initially referred to is to be strapped to
consumers, I don't think it is artificial. It is a simple question
of affordability. News of a potential cost decrease is welcome.
If the inertia refers to hesitance on the part of developers, my
point was that the desire to achieve affordability was the driving
force behind recent developments in the technology.
2. Arbitrary and capricious: simply put, the absence of a rational
connection between the facts found and the choice made.
Comparing the cost of a new roof having a 20+ year lifespan that
provides one's electricity during that time to the cost of a similar
roof w.
the expected cost of electricity supplied by coal for the next 20
years
doesn't seem to be arbitrary and capricious.
How do we know if we can afford something over the long term w/o a
basis
for comparison?
3. Cost effectiveness only being applied to solar: There was
discussion this past summer (see Regina Restaurateur (sp) energized
by old veggie oil
Biofuel archives June 24- 25, 2014) between Darryl and myself re: the
consideration of payback period.
{excerpt} I have a problem with the term payback period.
We don't ask about payback period when we go on
vacation, or buy a car with all the options. Does
the gardener really calculate the payback period
for
the time and cost of planting and tending the
garden?
Why would anyone plant flower beds?
My experience is that payback period is often
used an
excuse for inaction. Blessings to those who read,
listen and learn, calculate feasibility and then act
with
the understanding that sustainability is the goal
and joy
is part of the payoff.
On purely practical matters most of us do basic calculations re:
cost
effectiveness/payback periods, etc. What will it cost compared to what
we currently pay.
Ex:
Many of us, while managing $100/mo electric bills; even going
$110/mo
in order to have electricity from renewable sources, may not be able
to
fork over $25,000 for a solar setup. (This, with tax incentives
included).
Anything that reduces cost compared to what we currently pay tips the
scale.
Alternative I'm considering:
20 year lease; free installation and maintenance; monthly cost
the
same or less than my current monthly electric bill.
Back to my original interest and comments:
Given a new roof (this past fall) and possibility of 20 year lease
on a pv solar setup, the availability of solar roof shingles made from
common,
available elements at lower cost 20 years down the road is
provocative;
could be my next roofing material just in time for lease expiration
and for new
shingles.
Best to You,
Tom
On Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:03:20 -0700
Zeke Yewdall zyewd...@gmail.com wrote:
The whole cost effective test is quite odd. Why is that always the
measure of whether solar is worth doing? No one ever asks this
about
other things. Is having a child cost effective? How about going
to a
concert? Even for other buying decisions it is rarely asked. Is a
dishwasher cost effective? How about going out for a nice dinner
out
instead of buying some gmo prepackaged microwave dinner? Quality of
life
is what many decisions are based on and solar should be the same. Is
it
worth having a livable planet.
On Sunday, February 15, 2015, Chris Burck chris.bu...@gmail.com
wrote:
Yes, I realize solar singles have been around for a while. Almost a
decade
now. But until only pretty recently, they were quite expensive in
comparison to conventional PV panels.
Using coal as a cost benchmark is capricious and arbitrary. When
paying
our coal-generated electricity bill, is the cost of our roof included
in
there somewhere? The only real questions to be answered are:
--What is the current efficiency of these alternative material
singles?
--How much less expensive (if at all) than normal PV singles are
they at
this time?
--
¡Ay, Pachamamita! ¡Eres la cosa más bonita!
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Re: [Biofuel] Yale Environment 360: Solar Shingles Made from Common Metals Offer Cheaper Energy Option
Solar shingles have been available for years; Dow's Powerhouse line since about 2005. see Article in Scientific America 2013: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/im-getting-my-roof-redone-and-heard-about-solar-shingles/ The first solar shingles were often more difficult to install than pv panels = high cost of installation. The benchmark of being competitive w. coal may well be the driving force behind improvements that have lead to significant reduction in price vs anchor holding it back. - thin film pv allowed for fast, easy installation (lower cost) - shingles made of elements more common than the indium and gallium used in the current copper, indium, gallium, selenide pv film would further lower cost Combine lowered cost w. tax incentives to install = a good thing for us common folk Tesla announced that it will make its batteries available for home energy use. Someone (Darryl?) will this also be good for residential pv installation? Tom On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 11:23:55 -0600 Chris Burck chris.bu...@gmail.com wrote: All well and good. Of course, we need them now, and would have them by now if this ridiculous benchmark of being competitive with coal weren't causing artificial inertia. -- ¡Ay, Pachamamita! ¡Eres la cosa más bonita! ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Once-golden biofuels market flattened by cheap diesel :: WRAL.com
From my little part of the world: There was a time when I got phone calls from restaurants asking me to take their used veg oil. In fact, before I went from test batches to large batches, I did try-outs for the veg oil I would accept. There was a time when I ran two diesel cars on homebrewed BD and heated my house + domestic hot water. Then it happened. Veg oil became valuable. The price paid for it was based on the price that could be gotten for the biodiesel made from it When diesel was above $4 (US) per gallon, used veg oil went for $1 or more per gallon. Contracts were signed, oil poachers were arrested. My sources for veg oil dried up; I had to sell the 2 old Mercedes diesels and go to wood for heat. Fortunately I had set up a strategic oil reserveback when used veg oil was available for the taking ; 400+ gallons of de-watered, clean, high quality veg oil. I use home brewed BD in my oil-fired boiler to supplement wood heat. I was amazed to find that a barrel of veg oil from 2008 still made excellent BD 6 years later in 2014. Now with diesel back down to $3 or less per gallon, paying $1 per gallon of feedstock is not profitable. I imagine that the same is true for production from unused veg oil. Tom On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 16:08:48 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://www.wral.com/once-golden-biofuels-market-flattened-by-cheap-diesel/14437851/ [Seems like a good opportunity for a greenhouse gas emissions tax. Personally, I favour one implemented at the start of the product change - aka big emitters, and imbed it in the production price rather than trying to tack a tax on willy-nilly at the retail level. Least paper-work, best tying of the cost to the issue.] Once-golden biofuels market flattened by cheap diesel Posted 3:01 a.m. today By CHRIS FLEISHER, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review PITTSBURGH — Last fall, Ed Vescovi planned to restart a dormant biodiesel plant in Beaver County. The market for biofuel was shaky. But a new owner, Weavertown Environmental, pledged to get the plant going after purchasing it in 2013. Vescovi was hoping to begin production before the end of last year. Then, oil prices plummeted, pushing down the price of regular diesel. You wouldn't get anybody to really buy (biodiesel) if you're still selling it for $4 a gallon, said Ed Vescovi, who Weavertown hired to run the plant. You can buy diesel fuel for $3 a gallon. How do you compete? Weavertown put the project on hold rather than suffer along with other producers who have seen their profits plummet in a challenging environment for biofuels, the petroleum alternatives made from corn, soybean oil and other crops. Cheap oil has squeezed the industry's profits even as it encounters larger questions about its impact on food prices and environmental benefits. Government mandates have supported its growth — production of biodiesel has increased from 112 million gallons in 2005 to 1.8 billion in 2013 — but inexpensive oil could increase pressure to reduce mandates. Those mandates have been questioned amid criticism that biofuels drive up food prices. Besides being a common side-dish for many Americans' meals, corn is used as a sweetener in packaged foods and beverages and as feed grain for livestock. And competition from ethanol producers forces prices up when growers can't keep up with demand. Ethanol demand Corn-based ethanol is a more widely used alternative fuel than biodiesel, which is made from recycled vegetable oil and animal fat, and is coming off of a record year for production. Ethanol makers enjoyed fattened margins amid low corn prices, but they are feeling pinched now. Prices have come down sharply, said Robert Wisner, a biofuels economist at Iowa State University. The trend has been down along with gasoline and crude oil. Wholesale prices for ethanol have fallen 37 percent since July, to $1.31 in January, Wisner said. Government mandates for production have propped up the industry. But some environmental groups have called for abolishing those supports amid concerns about the effects on the nation's food supply. Last month, a prominent environmental think tank called on Western governments to reconsider their support for biofuels. In the United States, refiners are required to blend biofuels with gasoline and diesel fuel to help reduce the nation's reliance on imported oil and to address environmental pollution concerns because biofuels are believed to be cleaner sources of energy. Turning corn and other crops into energy is inefficient and takes up land that could be better used to produce food, according to the Washington-based World Resources Institute. The push for ethanol production has driven up global food prices without lowering carbon emissions, the report said. The Institute said that the quest for bioenergy at a meaningful scale is both unrealistic and
Re: [Biofuel] Research calls into question biofuel usage - The Michigan Daily
Consequently, there has been no increase in the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as a result of increased biofuel production because the fields were already being used to grow food. The importance of biofuels is not that they increase removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Their importance is that they do not increase the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere as fossil fuels do. The problem: Burning fossil fuels release carbon that had been sequestered in the ground for tens of millions of years. This carbon is not part of the current carbon cycle and therefore adds to the carbon in the atmosphere. Biofuels are composed of carbons recently fixed into organic compounds by the photosynthetic activity. They do not introduce carbon from ancient times into the atmosphere. Burning biofuels result in no net gain in atmospheric carbon. Tom On Wed, 11 Feb 2015 09:21:35 -0400 Thomas Kelly ontheh...@fairpoint.net wrote: Hmmm “The computer-analysis methods forget to check what land is doing before it is used to grow soybeans for biofuels,” he said. “They think that the land is completely barren. That’s a very big mistake.” Consequently, there has been no increase in the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as a result of increased biofuel production because the fields were already being used to grow food. One would hope that the fields used to grow soybeans for biofuels are simultaneously growing crops for food. Oils pressed from soy beans for biodiesel production leaves behind the proteins and carbohydrates that make for excellent animal feed, which is what soy should probably be grown for anyway. Pig farmers feed soy to their pigs because its protein is high in the amino acid lysine. In fact, the removal of the oil may make for better feed in that soy oil has a poor balance of omega 3:omega 6 fatty acids. Animals fed soy should also be grazing. The use of soy oil in human diets should be replaced by olive, canola or some other veg oil with higher omega 3 fatty acids. My point: Much of the carbon captured by plants growing in a field used to produce soy oil for biodiesel production still enters the food chain as food. Tom On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:33:57 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://www.michigandaily.com/news/research-questions-effectiveness-biofuel [links in on-line article] Research calls into question biofuel usage By Samiha Matin, For the Daily Published February 9, 2015 Though expanding biofuel production is often lauded as a key strategy for decreasing carbon emissions, a University-based analysis found that the benefits might not be so extensive. John DeCicco, a research professor at the University’s Energy Institute, reviewed existing studies that evaluated the effectiveness of biofuel as an alternative energy source. He discovered that the variety of computer models used does not accurately represent the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed from the atmosphere when biofuels are produced. Though biofuel, an energy source composed from organic or food waste products, has generally been deemed a leading eco-friendly option for reducing gasoline consumption, DeCicco said many of the studies are misleading. “The government has sponsored computer models which have made a very basic accounting mistake,” he said. “Particularly, they count carbon dioxide uptake as it happens. They completely offset the carbon dioxide admitted when the biofuel is burned.” In recent years, scientists and researchers have debated the advantages and disadvantages of biofuel compared to petroleum production. DeCicco, however, said his work takes a step back to research fundamental mistakes made when measuring carbon dioxide uptake throughout the decades. His research argues against the assumption that biofuels decrease net carbon dioxide emissions. Using a field of soybeans as an example, DeCicco talked about how these models fail to recognize that lands are constantly being used for production. Fields previously used to grow food are now providing for biofuel production. “The computer-analysis methods forget to check what land is doing before it is used to grow soybeans for biofuels,” he said. “They think that the land is completely barren. That’s a very big mistake.” Consequently, there has been no increase in the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as a result of increased biofuel production because the fields were already being used to grow food. The research paper also highlights the use of carbon footprint models and their incorrect calculations that carbon dioxide emissions are lower with biodiesel than petroleum. The results are inconsistent with the realities of the carbon cycle, causing carbon footprint calculators to incorrectly estimate carbon dioxide uptake by crops like soybeans. However
Re: [Biofuel] Research calls into question biofuel usage - The Michigan Daily
Hmmm “The computer-analysis methods forget to check what land is doing before it is used to grow soybeans for biofuels,” he said. “They think that the land is completely barren. That’s a very big mistake.” Consequently, there has been no increase in the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as a result of increased biofuel production because the fields were already being used to grow food. One would hope that the fields used to grow soybeans for biofuels are simultaneously growing crops for food. Oils pressed from soy beans for biodiesel production leaves behind the proteins and carbohydrates that make for excellent animal feed, which is what soy should probably be grown for anyway. Pig farmers feed soy to their pigs because its protein is high in the amino acid lysine. In fact, the removal of the oil may make for better feed in that soy oil has a poor balance of omega 3:omega 6 fatty acids. Animals fed soy should also be grazing. The use of soy oil in human diets should be replaced by olive, canola or some other veg oil with higher omega 3 fatty acids. My point: Much of the carbon captured by plants growing in a field used to produce soy oil for biodiesel production still enters the food chain as food. Tom On Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:33:57 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://www.michigandaily.com/news/research-questions-effectiveness-biofuel [links in on-line article] Research calls into question biofuel usage By Samiha Matin, For the Daily Published February 9, 2015 Though expanding biofuel production is often lauded as a key strategy for decreasing carbon emissions, a University-based analysis found that the benefits might not be so extensive. John DeCicco, a research professor at the University’s Energy Institute, reviewed existing studies that evaluated the effectiveness of biofuel as an alternative energy source. He discovered that the variety of computer models used does not accurately represent the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed from the atmosphere when biofuels are produced. Though biofuel, an energy source composed from organic or food waste products, has generally been deemed a leading eco-friendly option for reducing gasoline consumption, DeCicco said many of the studies are misleading. “The government has sponsored computer models which have made a very basic accounting mistake,” he said. “Particularly, they count carbon dioxide uptake as it happens. They completely offset the carbon dioxide admitted when the biofuel is burned.” In recent years, scientists and researchers have debated the advantages and disadvantages of biofuel compared to petroleum production. DeCicco, however, said his work takes a step back to research fundamental mistakes made when measuring carbon dioxide uptake throughout the decades. His research argues against the assumption that biofuels decrease net carbon dioxide emissions. Using a field of soybeans as an example, DeCicco talked about how these models fail to recognize that lands are constantly being used for production. Fields previously used to grow food are now providing for biofuel production. “The computer-analysis methods forget to check what land is doing before it is used to grow soybeans for biofuels,” he said. “They think that the land is completely barren. That’s a very big mistake.” Consequently, there has been no increase in the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere as a result of increased biofuel production because the fields were already being used to grow food. The research paper also highlights the use of carbon footprint models and their incorrect calculations that carbon dioxide emissions are lower with biodiesel than petroleum. The results are inconsistent with the realities of the carbon cycle, causing carbon footprint calculators to incorrectly estimate carbon dioxide uptake by crops like soybeans. However, DeCicco remains optimistic for the future and believes that scientific critical analyses will help to remove these assumptions. “I, alongside many researchers around the world, have begun peeling the layers of the onion,” he said. “It’s necessary because the scientific community has made some erroneous decisions.” ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] ASTM Ups FAME Tolerance, Helps Biodiesel for Jets | Domestic Fuel
It is my understanding that the acceptable level of biodiesel in jet fuel, now at .005 percent, i.e. 50 parts per millions or 0.5 gal per 10,000, is the acceptable level of contamination. Although many of the larger airports have jet fuel delivered by pipeline, the distribution chain includes one or more intermediate storage facilities (terminals). Several modes of transportation may be used: barge, railroad tank car, and even tanker truck. Smaller airports may rely heavily on tanker trucks for delivery. If the storage facility, barge, or tanker previously contained biodiesel, contamination of the jet fuel may occur. Ex: typical tanker truck (9,000 US gal capacity) with as little as 0.5 US gal of biodiesel residue (or 2.25 gal B20 residue) then filled w. jet fuel would be at the upper limit of acceptability (0.005%). Although this residue may be lost in the millions of gallons of jet fuel used daily at larger airports, in smaller airports it could pose a problem. I believe that a similar problem exists for those companies that transport both untaxed home heating fuel and taxed diesel fuel. The untaxed heating fuel is dyed and illegal to use on the highway. The dye will show up in the highway fuel with even a very small amount of contamination. The ASTM standards are not so much about adding 0.5 gallons of biodiesel to 9,950 gal of jet fuel (50 gal per million), but rather allowing for a small amount of contamination that may occur during distribution w/o liability to the airline or supplier. Tom On Thu, 05 Feb 2015 19:23:53 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: It certainly isn't much, but I would note two things. 1) The aircraft hardware guys are notoriously conservative. As an occasional airline passenger, in general, I appreciate that. Moving from zero biofuel to any amount of biofuel was an accomplishment. This time, they are allowing a 10-fold increase in the amount in the standard jet fuel, and anticipating a further doubling from that level. Agreed 0.005 BD seems pretty trivial, but better than 0.0005. 2) We went through these hoops with diesel fuel standards for land vehicles years ago. First it was 0.5%, then 1%, then 2%, then 5% and now there are pumps at fuelling stations with B20 blend available retail. And nothing to stop pioneers from running B50 in some fleets, and true visionaries among us from kicking the dino juice altogether. Small steps to be sure, but at least in the right direction. Tom, treasure and use your impatience - it is what will help drag the rest of the world forward. Darryl On 05/02/2015 8:45 AM, Tom wrote: So they will allow B .005 for jet fuel and this will open the door for more biofuels to be used in aviation? Tom -Original Message- From: Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com Sent: 2/4/2015 6:21 PM To: Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] ASTM Ups FAME Tolerance, Helps Biodiesel for Jets | Domestic Fuel http://domesticfuel.com/2015/02/04/astm-ups-fame-tolerance-helps-biodiesel-for-jets/ ASTM Ups FAME Tolerance, Helps Biodiesel for Jets Posted on February 4, 2015 by John Davis A change in the amount of fatty acid methyl esters (FAME) allowed in jet fuel will open the door for more biodiesel to be used in aviation. This news release from ASTM, a group that sets quality standards for a number of items including fuels, says that revising the safety standard of the allowable cross-contamination of FAME in jet fuel from 5.0 parts per million to 50 parts per million under the Aviation Turbine Fuel Standard (ASTM D1655) will help get more biodiesel into aviation fuels without compromising safety. “The jet fuel specification keeps the aviation industry safe while adapting to the expanded presence of biofuels,” says ASTM member David J. Abdallah, Exxon Mobil Research and Engineering. “In fact, no discernible negative impact on jet fuel product quality was observed with up to 400 ppm of biodiesel.” Abdallah noted that a potential future revision could further increase the standard to allow 100 parts per million. ASTM D1655 was developed by ASTM Subcommittee D02.J0 on Aviation Fuels and D02.J0.01 on Jet Fuel Specifications, part of Committee D02 on Petroleum Products, Liquid Fuels and Lubricants. ASTM used information from the EI-JIP Report, Joint Industry Project: Seeking original equipment manufacturer (OEM) approvals for 100 mg/kg fatty acid methyl ester (FAME) in aviation turbine fuel as the basis for the change. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Weed control
Thanks Ivan. Great article short, informative and to the point: Dense planting in grid vs row pattern decreased weed growth and increased yield significantly w/o the use of herbicide. Some thoughts: 1. Given the multifarious forces at work in nature that select for or against the survival of an organism, by what logic would we arrive at notion that growing plants widely spaced and in rows is in the best interest of the plant population? After all, farmers are interested, first and foremost, in yield. That is, yield from the crop; the acreage devoted to the crop; ex: bushels per acre. They are not so much interested in specimen plants. Yet the focus seems to be on individual plants when we plant them widely spaced and in rows. 2. By providing such space between plants, we are opening up opportunities for non-crop plants i.e. weeds fertile soil, lack of competition, etc. Is this seen simply as a separate problem to be solved? Applying poisons to kill the weeds seems contrary to the original goal of growing food for us to eat, as they also contaminate the crop. Further irony is when the poisons used to kill the weeds interfere with enzymes that enables the crop to fix nitrogen thereby lowering crop yield or necessitating the increased application of fertilizer. We all know of people (ourselves?) who hold onto an opinion long after its ship of logic has left port. Maybe widely spaced row planting of crops is such an opinion. Thanks again Ivan for a ray of sunshine let's not be afraid to go back and re-think something that has gone awry. Tom On Thu, 15 Jan 2015 11:57:24 +0100 Ivan Menchero imench...@hotmail.com wrote: http://phys.org/news/2015-01-crops-weed.html Article about weed control thru seed sowing ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] World’s Largest Indoor Farm is 100 Times More Productive | Urbanist
I find fascinating the role of the environment in the nutritional value of produce. For example, raspberry plants that are protected against insect attack produce raspberries that are lower in flavonoids than raspberry plants that suffer some insect attack. The damage from insect attack stimulates a biochemical response in the plant that helps to defend against attack. These very same flavonoids that help the plants defend against insect attack are valuable nutrients with powerful antioxidant properties that help us to defend against disease, including cancer, as well as to provide protection from metabolic products such as the super oxide radical which contributes to the aging process. Good food is good for you. Past improvements to food production include the Green Revolution which reduced production to synthetic fertilizer, pesticides and automation. Monsanto would have us believe that GMOs are way to go. Just wondering, Tom On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 16:32:39 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://weburbanist.com/2015/01/11/worlds-largest-indoor-farm-is-100-times-more-productive/ [images and videos in on-line article] World’s Largest Indoor Farm is 100 Times More Productive Article by Urbanist The statistics for this incredibly successful indoor farming endeavor in Japan are staggering: 25,000 square feet producing 10,000 heads of lettuce per day (100 times more per square foot than traditional methods) with 40% less power, 80% less food waste and 99% less water usage than outdoor fields. But the freshest news from the farm: a new facility using the same technologies has been announced and is now under construction in Hong Kong, with Mongolia, Russia and mainland China on the agenda for subsequent near-future builds. In the currently-completed setup, customized LED lighting developed with GE helps plants grow up to two and half times faster, one of the many innovations co-developed in this enterprise by Shigeharu Shimamura, the man who helped turn a former semiconductor factory into the planet’s biggest interior factory farm. The specific idea to deploy it at this time and in this place grew out of a disaster: the 2011 earthquake and tsunami that shook the island nation, causing area food shortages in general and this building to be abandoned in particular. Turning it into an indoor farm both gave the structure a new purpose and has helped replace needed fresh, healthy and locally-grown greens. Shimamura has shortened the cycle of days and nights in this artificial environment, growing food faster, while optimizing temperature, lighting and humidity and maximizing vertical square footage in this vast interior space (about half the size of a football field). No water is lost to soil and a core-less lettuce variant reduces waste. Currently, the process is “only half automated. Machines do some work, but the picking part is done manually. In the future, though, I expect an emergence of harvesting robots. For example, a robot that can transplant seedlings, or for cutting and harvesting, or transporting harvested produce to be packaged.” With a long-standing passion for produce production, he “got the idea for his indoor farm as a teenager, when he visited a ‘vegetable factory’ at the Expo ’85 world’s fair in Tsukuba, Japan. He went on to study plant physiology at the Tokyo University of Agriculture, and in 2004 started an indoor farming company called Mirai, which in Japanese means ‘future.'” Shimamura continues to think about future refinements, applications and expansions: “I believe that, at least technically, we can produce almost any kind of plant in a factory. But what makes most economic sense is to produce fast-growing vegetables that can be sent to the market quickly. That means leaf vegetables for us now. In the future, though, we would like to expand to a wider variety of produce. It’s not just vegetables we are thinking about, though. The factory can also produce medicinal plants. I believe that there is a very good possibility we will be involved in a variety of products soon.” The beauty of this development lies partly in its versatility – since it deals in climate-controlled spaces and replicable conditions, a solution of this sort can be deployed anywhere in the world to address food shortages of the present and future. Saving space, indoor vertical farms are also good candidates for local food production in crowded and high-cost urban areas around the globe. Aforementioned strides in waste and power reduction also make these techniques and approaches far more sustainable and cost-efficient. Ultimately, the hope (and goal) is to refine the system and apply it in other areas where resources and/or space are scarce or where weather is problematic, from developing countries to developed cities. Indeed, the same team is already building anew in densely-packed
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel
My apologies to all, especially to John Jaser. While mulling over a post on Methane As A Renewable, I mistakenly posted my thoughts on methane being a no-brainer on the wrong thread. Irony, no? Me scatter-braining while being critical of no-braining. As to methanol as a motor fuel: Relatively safe? Yes, relative to other motor fuels Easily transported? Yes, in the tanks of vehicles. There's a good deal of debate here in NY about transport of crude oil in barges on the Hudson River, by rail, and in tanker trucks. Methanol, while toxic to humans, does not pose the same environmental threat that crude oil does. Always a concern w. transport. Homebrewing: ??? Problem: material compatibility Methanol, like other renewables, is probably best produced locally. The methanol I purchase to make biodiesel costs $160-$200 (US) per 55 gal. drum. Much of the cost reflects costs associated with transport. The barrel that cost me $200 sold for $110 in Buffalo, NY where it arrived by rail. I was told that it sold for $80-90 on the Gulf coast where it arrived by tanker. Not only is there a financial cost associated w. transport, but a great amount of fuel wasted delivering fuel. Sorry, just a commercial for local, small-scale energy production. Preaching to the choir. Tom On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:33:57 -0500 Tom ontheh...@fairpoint.net wrote: Aaah, methane is intriguing. Biogas is a metabolic product of one of the most ancient life forms, the methanocreatrices. Anaerobic chemoautotrophic bacteria so different from others that many would assign them to their own kingdom. As to methane being easily transported consider where propane and natural gas can be compressed to liquids, greatly increasing energy density, methane resists liquefaction, requiring tremendous pressure. This seems to be the fly in the ointment. Unliquefied, a tankful of methane doesn't go far. Methane has value as a renewable fuel. It is captured and used at waste treatment plants to generate electricity. Methane is currently being captured at landfills and used to generate electricity. I know of a dairy farm that harvests methane from the manure the cows produce. They use the methane to generate electricity. The heat from the generators heats the water used to sanitize the milking area. They don't use the methane in their cars or farm machinery however. Relatively safe.Hmmm Methane is a potent greenhouse gas. Ocean burps from vast storehouses of methyl hydrates/clathrates have been credited with contributing significantly to the end of the last ice age. The release of methane from thawing peat bogs is a part of the cascade of events that is accelerating global warming. Gasoline was once considered a waste product of oil refining, dumped into rivers. When it was pointed out that it could replace ethanol as fuel for internal combustion engines the waste became valuable. Imagine what might happen if methane gas presented the same financial opportunities by its use as vehicle fuel a renewable fuel. Do we dare the oil giants to tap the vast stores of methane currently trapped safely under the ocean? It's already being proposed. They can do it safely, right? Have you seen the data about leakage from pipelines compressed gases seem to find their way out. Not so good in the case of methane. Capturing methane at its source and using it close to where it's produced to generate electricity seems appropriate. Sorry to carry on, but you did say methane was intriguing. Best, Tom -Original Message- From: John Jaser j...@jaser.net Sent: 11/26/2014 2:50 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol as a motor fuel Hi Tom: Sorry should have added the context. Intriguing as perhaps a better common denominator than hydrogen itself. e.g. can be easily transported; can be made from biogas; can power a fuel cell directly or indirectly; relatively safe From: Tom Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 2:49 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org What is it about the number of hydrogens per molecule that intrigues you? Methane: CH4, Methanol: CH3OH both have 4 H's per molecule, as would Methanoic Acid. Ethane: C2H6, Ethanol: C2H5OH each have 6 H's per molecule. Is there something about the number 4 itself, or is it the number of H's per Carbon atom? Methane: 4:1 vs Ethane: 3:1 with a decreasing ratio as we increase the size of the carbon chain. Just wondering, Tom -Original Message- From: John Jaser j...@jaser.net Sent: 11/26/2014 12:58 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel, Solar Turn Cheese Guy’s Truck Green | Domestic Fuel
Just to be clear: Biodiesel is quieter than traditional fuel and only has organic emissions. Added lubricity may help a diesel engine run smoother/quieter. Organic emissions??? Let's hope not. Organic emissions from combustion would be unburned hydrocarbons . not desirable. Another alternative fuel addition The Cheese Guy wants to make is replacing propane with natural gas. Alternative fuel addition??? Propane is a specific gas refined from natural gas. Natural gas is a mix of gases that includes methane. Both produce the same emissions. Natural gas contains methane, a powerful greenhouse gas, and so, would be very harmful to the environment if released unburned. Propane is more energy-dense. Natural gas is generally cheaper per BTU. Which is preferable? If cost and availability aren't issues, propane gets the nod because it is less harmful to the environment if released unburned. Great to hear that The Cheese Guy is going green. Waste veg oil to biodiesel - fuel that emits lower levels of Carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, sulfur, and fewer organics (unburned hydrocarbons); all good. The Carbon emitted as carbon dioxide when BD is burned is part of the current carbon cycle (good) vs petro diesel which emits carbon that has been sequestered for millions of years, overwhelming the current cycling process and thus contributing to global warming (bad). i.e. Biodiesel is an appropriate alternative to petro diesel for a number of very real reasons. + Waste veg oil is an appropriate feedstock for BD production. Appropriate technology. Economy of scale. Sort of a JtF mantra. Tom On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:59:40 -0500 Darryl McMahon dar...@econogics.com wrote: http://domesticfuel.com/2014/11/11/biodiesel-solar-turn-cheese-guys-truck-green/ Biodiesel, Solar Turn Cheese Guy’s Truck Green Posted on November 11, 2014 by John Davis A food truck entrepreneur known for his cheese is turning his vehicle – not his cheese – green using biodiesel and solar power. This news release posted on EIN News says Oklahoma-based Wil Braggs, aka “The Cheese Guy,” has started a Kickstarter crowdfunding campaign to help him buy a brand new gourmet green energy food truck called the Mean Green Purple Machine. This truck is intended to be powered by solar generated energy. Sunlight is free obviously and solar power is an effective, simple and often overlooked energy choice. The Cheese Guy is committed to implementing solar inverter technology in order to charge batteries with sunlight. A new food truck would enable The Cheese Guy to utilize solar power for the brand new Mean green purple machine. Another form of alternative energy is biodiesel which is formed from vegetable oil. Biodiesel is quieter than traditional fuel and only has organic emissions. The Cheese Guy intends to use biodiesel from recycled plant oil to run their engine and also their generator. This would be the first true biodiesel powered food truck. It is this groundbreaking innovation that has the ability to change the thinking of food truck owners everywhere. Another alternative fuel addition The Cheese Guy wants to make is replacing propane with natural gas. You can visit his Kickstarter campaign here. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/46661449/the-mean-green-purple-machine == http://www.einnews.com/pr_news/233812083/the-cheese-guy-reshaping-the-food-truck-industry The Cheese Guy, Reshaping the Food Truck Industry TULSA, OKLAHOMA, UNITED STATES, November 10, 2014 /EINPresswire.com/ -- Wil Braggs, who is otherwise known as The Cheese Guy, is an experienced food truck entrepreneur with over 10 years of kitchen and hospitality service experience. This experience includes cooking, serving, bartending and hosting various events. Currently Wil is focused on changing the perception of the food truck business. There is a reputation among the food truck industry that the trucks are dirty and wasteful. The Cheese Guy is dedicated to green initiatives. There are many ways in which The Cheese Guy plans to make his truck run more efficiently. This focus on green and renewable energy has the dual benefit of offering a lower cost means of business operation and being beneficial for the environment. These efficiency improvements include the building of a completely new truck which is based on renewable energy. This truck is intended to be powered by solar generated energy. Sunlight is free obviously and solar power is an effective, simple and often overlooked energy choice. The Cheese Guy is committed to implementing solar inverter technology in order to charge batteries with sunlight. A new food truck would enable The Cheese Guy to utilize solar power for the brand new Mean green purple machine. Another form of alternative energy is biodiesel which is formed from vegetable
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Compatibility
Robert, I don't think you'll get much argument re: your contention that any OBDII vehicle can run E85, the question is for how long. I only waded through the study you cited, but some points should be made: 1. It looked at exhaust emissions from 16 vehicles comparing low ethanol/gasoline blends blends of 10%(E10), 15%(E15) and 20%(E20) to gasoline (E0). Changes in exhaust emissions indicated that the vehicles did make fuel:air adjustments i.e. they learned to run on the ethanol blends. The study did not include E85. 2. The authors state that the study did not include an operability component and while they point out that there were no observed leaks in any of the vehicles, they also state that the vehicles were only driven about 200 miles on the ethanol blends. 3. 6 of the 16 vehicles did not make adjustments at wide open throttle and emissions were consistently hotter as these vehicles ran at lean blends. None of this is real news. Here in the US we've been running our cars on E10 (gasohol) sine '83. A couple of years ago I bought a piece of lab equipment - a '99 Ford Ranger; flex fuel version. It loves E85. When I go from E10 to E85, you can hear the engine settle in to it. It almost instantly adjusts to whatever blend I feed it. The owner of the station that sells me the E85 told me that when he started selling E85 he filled up the tank of his family car. It ran a bit rough for a few miles, but then ran fine. He wouldn't run more than a tankful or two ... went on about seals and fuel lines. Same message from some reliable mechanics: E10 no problem. E85 is a different story. So, will newer model vehicles run on E85? Probably. We certainly want them to run at various temps and altitudes and for more than 200, 1000, or even 10,000 miles. Interesting info in the study you cited regarding small engines running on the lower ethanol blends. Many will not run on blends as low as E20 w/o adjustment ex raise fuel tank relative to engine and/or adjusting idle settings. Even with adjustments the engines run hot resulting in increased emissions of oxides of nitrogen and shorter lifespans for the engines. I'm not opposed to ethanol. I'm especially interested in ethanol that is produced at various levels of scale including homebrew utilizing feedstock from the waste stream. I look forward to the day when I can purchase E85 made from something other than food. Best to You, Tom I maintain that any OBDII vehicle can run E85. If your check engine light comes on, reset it and keep driving. (It's usually an O2 sensor that triggers the light.) The onboard computer WILL adapt. Here's what the NREL had to say on the matter: http://www.scribd.com/doc/117331392/Effects-of-Intermediate-Ethanol-Blends There are no E85 pumps in British Columbia. The best we can do is E10, which is only advertised as available at Husky. Robert Luis Rabello Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ceremonies and Celebrations video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV3k-s_sg1Q Meet the People video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txsCdh1hZ6c Crisis video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZedNEXhTn4 The Long Journey video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4muxaksgk This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7939 - Release Date: 07/28/14 ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol Compatibility
Will a phantom system and/or Megasquirt adjust on the fly to varying ethanol concentrations? (E0 through E100) On 7/29/2014 9:25 AM, Dawie Coetzee wrote: Another reason to replace one's OBD (should one be so cursed) with a phantom system ... -D I did, using a Megasquirt. Tuning for ethanol would be relatively straightforward. Now, if only distilling ethanol was legal in my jurisdiction . . . Robert Luis Rabello Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ceremonies and Celebrations video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV3k-s_sg1Q Meet the People video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txsCdh1hZ6c Crisis video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZedNEXhTn4 The Long Journey video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy4muxaksgk This communication may be unlawfully collected and stored by the National Security Agency (NSA) in secret. The parties to this email do not consent to the retrieving or storing of this communication and any related metadata, as well as printing, copying, re-transmitting, disseminating, or otherwise using it. If you believe you have received this communication in error, please delete it immediately. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7944 - Release Date: 07/29/14 ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Do-it-yourself biodiesel : Dont try this at home
we shouldn't sell flammable chemicals to untrained individuals. Somebody ought to tell this guy about gasoline. It's readily available to just about anyone. Tom http://www.therecord.com/news-story/4595225-do-it-yourself-biodiesel-don-t-try-this-at-home/ [FUD. Why is there an implicit assumption that motivated people of average intelligence can't learn how to do something without obtaining some certification of the knowledge? Yes, bad things do occasionally happen when 'amateurs' dabble with things with sharp edges - like knives. However, we have also had recent cases of commercial biodiesel plants catching fire.] Do-it-yourself biodiesel : Dont try this at home By Gordon Paul KITCHENER Only chemistry experts should try to make biodiesel, a chemist says after a batch exploded near Heidelberg last week. I wouldn't try to fly a plane or perform surgery, said David Archibald of FloChem Ltd. in Guelph. I wouldn't drive a city bus, try to arrest a criminal or put out a fire. Archibald used to work at one of the biggest biodiesel plants in Canada. Now he's a chemist and account manager at FloChem, which distributes chemicals to companies. Chemistry is really fun and exciting and cool, Archibald said. The things you can do are tremendous. But like everything, if you aren't trained, and if you don't know what you are doing, people can get hurt badly. Luke Martin, 23, was making hundreds of litres of biodiesel a cheap fuel used to power older diesel engines in Marvin Weber's barn south of Heidelberg last Tuesday night. The batch exploded and sparked a fire that destroyed the 30,000-square-foot barn and its contents. Damage topped $250,000. Martin escaped with singed eyebrows. Making biodiesel for your own use is legal and Archibald said many people are doing it. There's lots of them around. It's almost like a hobby for them. Most have no clue of the chemical hazards they're dealing with. Inevitably, these people end up in barns, using inappropriate tanks and hoses, with no temperature or vapour control. There are many accidents, all of which might be prevented. Biodiesel is made from three easy-to-find ingredients: used vegetable oil, potassium hydroxide and methanol. Archibald, a University of Waterloo graduate with a degree in chemistry and biology, blames the explosion on whoever sold Martin the methanol, a flammable liquid. Somebody sold some guy on a farm 45-gallon drums of methanol without checking to make sure they knew what the heck they were doing. We don't sell cigarettes and alcohol to minors, and we shouldn't sell flammable chemicals to untrained individuals. FloChem doesn't sell methanol but several area companies do. Archibald's company belongs to the Canadian Association of Chemical Distributors, which trumpets responsible distribution. That includes a presale, on-site safety inspection of the customer's facilities. You should know where your product's going cradle to grave, Archibald said. Biodiesel is not difficult to make, he said, but it is hard to make safely. It's very simple to get the materials, it's very simple to physically do the process. A lot of people get in pretty deep they get up to a pretty big scale without any idea of the risks they're taking. If you're going to make a litre of biodiesel on your countertop as a chemistry project, sure. Scaling your process up to something industrial-sized? I think you need a chemical engineer or chemist. You need somebody who understands health and safety. Martin had made biodiesel 15 to 20 times without a problem. This time, he thinks he mixed the methanol and potassium hydroxide too soon. Pressure built up and a small explosion sparked the fire. Later, methanol barrels in the barn exploded. I wouldn't jump on a tractor and run a plow, Archibald said. I don't know how to do that. I wouldn't think that just because I tilled my garden in the backyard I can do that. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Regina restaurateur energized by old veggie oil
Hello Darryl, You wrote: Personally, I love 'payback period' as a means of ranking different alternative projects open to me, . Out of curiosity, could you give an example? Maybe I should rethink how I do things. Tom Hi Thomas, sadly, such examples are still sufficiently rare that they still constitute news, and small enough they only warrant local coverage if any at all. When I find these nuggets, I like to share, in hopes they will inspire other 'small' victories. Regarding the math, I think the reporter jumbled 2 things together which create confusion. My reading is that Mr. Sperling figures a $50,000 investment will allow him to produce most of his electricity and recoup his investment in about 2 years from avoided utility costs. The reporter doesn't spell that out before shifting conversation to the U.S. Vegawatt example, which only proposes to provide 10-25% of the power used by their example customer restaurant (not Mr. Sperling's operation). Personally, I love 'payback period' as a means of ranking different alternative projects open to me, but it isn't the only factor that bears on my decisions (personal interest, satisfaction, learning potential, ease of implementation, risk factors, impacts on existing situation and others are at least as important). There has to be some way to put a value on beauty (not necessarily in dollars), or we would not build art galleries or put up pictures on our walls. Darryl On 17/06/2014 9:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Darryl, Thanks for articles such as these. It's nice to hear about people who do things. They talk, they listen, but ultimately they act. Whether it's putting something to work that they would otherwise discard, or about someone who scratches in the dirt to grow food they will eat, without first poisoning it. I have a problem with the term payback period. We don't ask about payback period when we go on vacation, or buy a car with all the options. Does the gardener really calculate the payback period for the time and cost of planting and tending the garden? Why would anyone plant flower beds? My experience is that payback period is often used an excuse for inaction. Blessings to those who read, listen and learn, calculate feasibility and then act with the understanding that sustainability is the goal and joy is part of the payoff. Actually another problem: Article states that: -cost will be about $50,000 -savings will be about $10,000/year ($900/mo) -payback will be within 2 years Are there tax incentives or is this a simple miscalculation as it would seem that payback would be about 5 years at their savings. (Nothing wrong with a 5 year payback as a diesel generator will live long past that) Thanks again, Tom http://www.leaderpost.com/life/Restaurateur+energized+veggie/9935141/story.html Regina restaurateur energized by old veggie oil By Natascia Lypny, The Leader-Post June 13, 2014 A Regina restaurateur thinks the leftover grease from french fries, fish and chips, and other greasy goodies could be the solution to Saskatchewan's power grid strain. Adam Sperling, owner of La Bodega and Slow Pub, envisions a Regina powered by restaurants' waste vegetable oil. Right now all that is, is a drain on power, he said of the city's expanding restaurant scene. It's draining our grid. We can turn that into a power resource. The Environment Advisory Committee member plans to bring forward a motion that the city conduct a feasibility study involving a pilot project of vegetable oil electricity generation at three locations of varying size. Thursday's committee meeting was cancelled, but Sperling plans to bring the motion up the next time the committee sits. It's an idea the restaurateur has been picking away at for a decade. According to his research, a generator would cost $50,000 installed. In a restaurant with one deep fryer, such as La Bodega, the generator would pay for itself within two years, then practically nix the restaurant's power bill, said Sperling. His vision for the generator is ambitious. Vegawatt, a similar machine developed by a Massachusetts company, advertises itself as providing 10-25 per cent of a restaurant's power and cutting its monthly power bill by $890. No examples of such a product exist in Canada. Currently, waste vegetable oil is picked up from restaurants, then reused for cosmetics, biodiesel and on roads to control dust. Sperling hopes the pilot leads to the eventual installation of generators at all Regina restaurants and food vendors with two or more deep fryers. This is an opportunity for Regina and for SaskPower to be leaders and innovators in recycling and being sustainable, and relieving the power grid of so much stress, he said. SaskPower's grid is currently
Re: [Biofuel] Using Payback Period (was Regina restaurateur energized by old veggie oil)
: rebuild solar water heater for seasonal property) Estimate cost: $700 ($655 from #2 above, additional fuel and install costs) Estimate return: $500 deferred other expenditure + $60/year Payback: 3.2 years [($700 - $500) x .95 / $60/year] Project 4 - invented in the course of this exercise, is now the 2nd priority based on payback period (but eliminates Project 2 due to resource constraint - only parts for one solar water heater on hand). 2 of the projects reduce heating fuel consumption, and 2 reduce electricity consumption, but I can compare them based on dollars as a common unit. Try to be fair and honest in building your assumptions to get a useful result. Payback period likely won't be your only tool in prioritizing projects, but I find it useful. I hope this helps. Darryl On 25/06/2014 8:29 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Hello Darryl, You wrote: Personally, I love 'payback period' as a means of ranking different alternative projects open to me, . Out of curiosity, could you give an example? Maybe I should rethink how I do things. Tom Hi Thomas, sadly, such examples are still sufficiently rare that they still constitute news, and small enough they only warrant local coverage if any at all. When I find these nuggets, I like to share, in hopes they will inspire other 'small' victories. Regarding the math, I think the reporter jumbled 2 things together which create confusion. My reading is that Mr. Sperling figures a $50,000 investment will allow him to produce most of his electricity and recoup his investment in about 2 years from avoided utility costs. The reporter doesn't spell that out before shifting conversation to the U.S. Vegawatt example, which only proposes to provide 10-25% of the power used by their example customer restaurant (not Mr. Sperling's operation). Personally, I love 'payback period' as a means of ranking different alternative projects open to me, but it isn't the only factor that bears on my decisions (personal interest, satisfaction, learning potential, ease of implementation, risk factors, impacts on existing situation and others are at least as important). There has to be some way to put a value on beauty (not necessarily in dollars), or we would not build art galleries or put up pictures on our walls. Darryl On 17/06/2014 9:25 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Darryl, Thanks for articles such as these. It's nice to hear about people who do things. They talk, they listen, but ultimately they act. Whether it's putting something to work that they would otherwise discard, or about someone who scratches in the dirt to grow food they will eat, without first poisoning it. I have a problem with the term payback period. We don't ask about payback period when we go on vacation, or buy a car with all the options. Does the gardener really calculate the payback period for the time and cost of planting and tending the garden? Why would anyone plant flower beds? My experience is that payback period is often used an excuse for inaction. Blessings to those who read, listen and learn, calculate feasibility and then act with the understanding that sustainability is the goal and joy is part of the payoff. Actually another problem: Article states that: -cost will be about $50,000 -savings will be about $10,000/year ($900/mo) -payback will be within 2 years Are there tax incentives or is this a simple miscalculation as it would seem that payback would be about 5 years at their savings. (Nothing wrong with a 5 year payback as a diesel generator will live long past that) Thanks again, Tom http://www.leaderpost.com/life/Restaurateur+energized+veggie/9935141/story.html Regina restaurateur energized by old veggie oil By Natascia Lypny, The Leader-Post June 13, 2014 A Regina restaurateur thinks the leftover grease from french fries, fish and chips, and other greasy goodies could be the solution to Saskatchewan's power grid strain. Adam Sperling, owner of La Bodega and Slow Pub, envisions a Regina powered by restaurants' waste vegetable oil. Right now all that is, is a drain on power, he said of the city's expanding restaurant scene. It's draining our grid. We can turn that into a power resource. The Environment Advisory Committee member plans to bring forward a motion that the city conduct a feasibility study involving a pilot project of vegetable oil electricity generation at three locations of varying size. Thursday's committee meeting was cancelled, but Sperling plans to bring the motion up the next time the committee sits. It's an idea the restaurateur has been picking away at for a decade. According to his research, a generator would cost $50,000 installed. In a restaurant with one deep fryer, such as La Bodega
Re: [Biofuel] Regina restaurateur energized by old veggie oil
Darryl, Thanks for articles such as these. It's nice to hear about people who do things. They talk, they listen, but ultimately they act. Whether it's putting something to work that they would otherwise discard, or about someone who scratches in the dirt to grow food they will eat, without first poisoning it. I have a problem with the term payback period. We don't ask about payback period when we go on vacation, or buy a car with all the options. Does the gardener really calculate the payback period for the time and cost of planting and tending the garden? Why would anyone plant flower beds? My experience is that payback period is often used an excuse for inaction. Blessings to those who read, listen and learn, calculate feasibility and then act with the understanding that sustainability is the goal and joy is part of the payoff. Actually another problem: Article states that: -cost will be about $50,000 -savings will be about $10,000/year ($900/mo) -payback will be within 2 years Are there tax incentives or is this a simple miscalculation as it would seem that payback would be about 5 years at their savings. (Nothing wrong with a 5 year payback as a diesel generator will live long past that) Thanks again, Tom http://www.leaderpost.com/life/Restaurateur+energized+veggie/9935141/story.html Regina restaurateur energized by old veggie oil By Natascia Lypny, The Leader-Post June 13, 2014 A Regina restaurateur thinks the leftover grease from french fries, fish and chips, and other greasy goodies could be the solution to Saskatchewan's power grid strain. Adam Sperling, owner of La Bodega and Slow Pub, envisions a Regina powered by restaurants' waste vegetable oil. Right now all that is, is a drain on power, he said of the city's expanding restaurant scene. It's draining our grid. We can turn that into a power resource. The Environment Advisory Committee member plans to bring forward a motion that the city conduct a feasibility study involving a pilot project of vegetable oil electricity generation at three locations of varying size. Thursday's committee meeting was cancelled, but Sperling plans to bring the motion up the next time the committee sits. It's an idea the restaurateur has been picking away at for a decade. According to his research, a generator would cost $50,000 installed. In a restaurant with one deep fryer, such as La Bodega, the generator would pay for itself within two years, then practically nix the restaurant's power bill, said Sperling. His vision for the generator is ambitious. Vegawatt, a similar machine developed by a Massachusetts company, advertises itself as providing 10-25 per cent of a restaurant's power and cutting its monthly power bill by $890. No examples of such a product exist in Canada. Currently, waste vegetable oil is picked up from restaurants, then reused for cosmetics, biodiesel and on roads to control dust. Sperling hopes the pilot leads to the eventual installation of generators at all Regina restaurants and food vendors with two or more deep fryers. This is an opportunity for Regina and for SaskPower to be leaders and innovators in recycling and being sustainable, and relieving the power grid of so much stress, he said. SaskPower's grid is currently strained under the pressures of increased demand due to a growing population and the age of the infrastructure. Its sections average 30 to 50 years old, said spokesman Tyler Hopson. At the current time, expanding our generation fleet is something SaskPower is interested in doing, something we have to do as the province grows in terms of population and demand for power increases, he said, adding the situation's not critical. Sperling's idea is far from fruition. He hasn't developed the machine, nor discussed it with SaskPower. The corporation, though, is open to innovation, said Hopson. While he couldn't comment on this particular idea, Hopson said SaskPower accepts unsolicited proposals. It also has a Small Power Producers Program by which people can generate electricity either to offset their own bill or to sell to SaskPower. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] New App Lets You Boycott Koch Brothers, Monsanto And More
Cool. Now I have to get a device that will allow me to use an app Tom FYI: Grts Bruno M. ~~ http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2013/05/14/new-app-lets-you-boycott-koch-brothers-monsanto-and-more-by-scanning-your-shopping-cart/ New App Lets You Boycott Koch Brothers, Monsanto And More By Scanning Your Shopping Cart | 5/14/2013 |882,051 views In her keynote speech at last year's annual Netroots Nation gathering, Darcy Burner pitched a seemingly simple idea to the thousands of bloggers and web developers in the audience. The former Microsoft MSFT +0.14% programmer and congressional candidate proposed a smartphone app allowing shoppers to swipe barcodes to check whether conservative billionaire industrialists Charles and David Koch were behind a product on the shelves. Burner figured the average supermarket shopper had no idea that buying Brawny paper towels, Angel Soft toilet paper or Dixie cups meant contributing cash to Koch Industries through its subsidiary Georgia-Pacific. Similarly, purchasing a pair of yoga pants containing Lycra or a Stainmaster carpet meant indirectly handing the Kochs your money (Koch Industries bought Invista, one of the world's largest fiber and textiles companies, in 2004 from DuPont). At the time, Burner created a mock interface for her app, but that's as far as she got. She was waiting to find the right team to build out the back end, which could be complicated given often murky corporate ownership structures. She wasn't aware that as she delivered her Netroots speech, a group of developers was hard at work on Buycott, an even more sophisticated version of the app she proposed. I remember reading Forbes' story on the proposed app to help boycott Koch Industries and wishing that we were ready to launch our product, said Buycott's marketing director Maceo Martinez. The app itself is the work of one Los Angeles-based 26-year-old freelance programmer, Ivan Pardo, who has devoted the last 16 months to Buycott. It's been completely bootstrapped up to this point, he said. Martinez and another friend have pitched in to promote the app. Meet The Cathys: Your Guide To The Billionaires Behind Chick-fil-A Clare O'Connor Clare O'Connor Forbes Staff Want To Boycott Koch Brothers' Products While Shopping? There's An App For That Clare O'Connor Clare O'Connor Forbes Staff 14 images Photos: Anti-Obama Billionaires Pardo's handiwork is available for download on iPhone or Android, making its debut in iTunes and Google GOOG +0.41% Play in early May. You can scan the barcode on any product and the free app will trace its ownership all the way to its top corporate parent company, including conglomerates like Koch Industries. Once you've scanned an item, Buycott will show you its corporate family tree on your phone screen. Scan a box of Splenda sweetener, for instance, and you'll see its parent, McNeil Nutritionals, is a subsidiary of Johnson Johnson JNJ +0.03%. Even more impressively, you can join user-created campaigns to boycott business practices that violate your principles rather than single companies. One of these campaigns, Demand GMO Labeling, will scan your box of cereal and tell you if it was made by one of the 36 corporations that donated more than $150,000 to oppose the mandatory labeling of genetically modified food. Deciding to add that campaign to your Buycott app might make buying your breakfast nearly impossible, as that list includes not just headline grabbers like agricultural giant Monsanto but just about every big consumer company with a presence in the supermarket aisle: Coca-Cola, Nestle, Kraft, Heinz, Kellogg's, Unilever and more. Buycott is still working on adding new data to its back end and fine-tuning its information on corporate ownership structures. Most companies in the current database actually own more brands than Buycott has on record. The developers are asking shoppers to help improve their technology by inputting names of products they scan that the app doesn't already recognize. And if this all sounds worthy but depressing, be assured that your next trip to the supermarket needn't be all doom and gloom. There are Buycott campaigns encouraging shoppers to support brands that have, say, openly backed LGBT rights. You can scan a bottle of Absolut vodka or a bag of Starbucks coffee beans and learn that both companies have come out for equal marriage. I don't want to push any single point of view with the app, said Pardo. For me, it was critical to allow users to create campaigns because I don't think it's Buycott's role to tell people what to buy. We simply want to provide a platform that empowers consumers to make well-informed purchasing decisions. Forbes reached out to Koch Industries and Monsanto for comment and will update this
Re: [Biofuel] Templeton High students convert Mercedes to run on biodiesel
Zeke, I bought my 1982 Mercedes 300SD in 2005 from a nice couple who swore by an additive called Red Line Diesel Additive. The car had 226,000 miles on it at the time and, although I had a couple of fuel filters on hand, I didn't even have trouble with the gunk issues common after switching to B100. There are other issues that may arise: - There's a rubber piece where you add fuel to the tank; right under the fuel cap. It degrades and has to be replaced every year or two. - The fuel line on Mercedes is stainless steel, but the short jumper lines between the cylinders are rubber and start to weep ... have to be replaced every couple of years. Neither of these require any mechanical skills and take between 2 and 10 minutes. I also used homebrewed B100 in an '85 300CD w/o modification. While there may be issues regarding the source of the veg oil used to make BD or the quality of the fuel itself, the fact is that Mercedes diesels, especially the older ones (pre-'86) with in-line 5 cylinder cast iron engines, are good to go on B100. Anyone with an old Mercedes diesel with access to good biodiesel in any blend from B2 to B100 go for it. Note: look under the hood to find out where the primary fuel filter is located, put a couple of spare filters, a Philips head screw driver and a flashlight in the trunk. Be attentive to any lack of power especially on hills as this often forewarns of filter clogging. Best to You, Tom Yes... what exactly was involved in the conversion is what I would like to know too. Unless they did some sort of system to run B100 in cold weather, there is not much more than changing the fuel filter a few times as the biodiesel cleans out all the old gunk in there. Z On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Thomas Kelly ontheh...@fairpoint.netwrote: Once again, to clarify a misconception: Diesel engines do not have to be modified (converted) to run on biodiesel. Biodiesel is simply added to the fuel tank and you start the vehicle and drive as you would if it was running on petro diesel. Diesel engines do require modifications to run on straight vegetable oil (SVO) that has not been converted into biodiesel. Tom http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2013/05/10/2503744/templeton-high-students-convert.html Templeton High students convert Mercedes to run on biodiesel Published: May 10, 2013 By Sarah Linn When it comes to engineering projects, Templeton High School students are definitely driven. Jason Diodatis students have spent the school year converting a 1984 Mercedes Benz 300 to run on biodiesel used vegetable oil collected from local restaurants and processed into fuel. Theyll show off the car as well as radios, robots and other alternative energy projects at Saturdays San Luis Obispo Mini Maker Faire, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. in Mission Plaza in downtown San Luis Obispo. Hosted by the San Luis Obispo Museum of Art and other organizations, the free, all-ages event showcases do-it-yourself innovators and their contributions to science, engineering and the arts. Diodati, whos in his first year teaching engineering and physics at Templeton High, says his students appreciate a hands-on approach to education. They tell me that theyre having so much fun they dont feel like theyre learning, he said, but at the end of the year, theyve learned a lot. Diodati said the biodiesel conversion project was funded via a $6,400 grant from the nonprofit Templeton Education Foundation. The car, in turn, will be auctioned off at the foundations Sept. 21 fundraiser at Castoro Cellars in Templeton, with proceeds benefiting future engineering projects at the school. My goal is to invite students to get their own cars and convert them, Diodati said. According to Principal Andrew Cherry, its all part of Templeton High Schools ongoing campaign to expose students to science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). The STEM Certification Academy, which starts next school year, will offer Templeton High students the opportunity to explore those fields more thoroughly. STEM Certification Academy participants can either stick with general STEM curriculum, including biology, chemistry and physics, or choose to focus on specific strands such as computer science, health careers, mechanical engineering or molecular sciences. They then have the chance to participate in a yearlong senior research project or internship. We want kids who are really passionate about a subject to pick a group of classes that keeps them excited through school, explained Cherry, adding that the list of strands may eventually expand to include agricultural science and engineering, mathematics and the humanities. About 10
Re: [Biofuel] Templeton High students convert Mercedes to run on biodiesel
Zeke, I bought my 1982 Mercedes 300SD in 2005 from a nice couple who swore by an additive called Red Line Diesel Additive. The car had 226,000 miles on it at the time and, although I had a couple of fuel filters on hand, I didn't even have trouble with the gunk issues common after switching to B100. There are other issues that may arise: - There's a rubber piece where you add fuel to the tank; right under the fuel cap. It degrades and has to be replaced every year or two. - The fuel line on Mercedes is stainless steel, but the short jumper lines between the cylinders are rubber and start to weep ... have to be replaced every couple of years. Neither of these require any mechanical skills and take between 2 and 10 minutes. I also used homebrewed B100 in an '85 300CD w/o modification. While there may be issues regarding the source of the veg oil used to make BD or the quality of the fuel itself, the fact is that Mercedes diesels, especially the older ones (pre-'86) with in-line 5 cylinder cast iron engines, are good to go on B100. Anyone with an old Mercedes diesel with access to good biodiesel in any blend from B2 to B100 go for it. Note: look under the hood to find out where the primary fuel filter is located, put a couple of spare filters, a Philips head screw driver and a flashlight in the trunk. Be attentive to any lack of power especially on hills as this often forewarns of filter clogging. Best to You, Tom Yes... what exactly was involved in the conversion is what I would like to know too. Unless they did some sort of system to run B100 in cold weather, there is not much more than changing the fuel filter a few times as the biodiesel cleans out all the old gunk in there. Z On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Thomas Kelly ontheh...@fairpoint.netwrote: Once again, to clarify a misconception: Diesel engines do not have to be modified (converted) to run on biodiesel. Biodiesel is simply added to the fuel tank and you start the vehicle and drive as you would if it was running on petro diesel. Diesel engines do require modifications to run on straight vegetable oil (SVO) that has not been converted into biodiesel. Tom http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2013/05/10/2503744/templeton-high-students-convert.html Templeton High students convert Mercedes to run on biodiesel Published: May 10, 2013 By Sarah Linn When it comes to engineering projects, Templeton High School students are definitely driven. Jason Diodatis students have spent the school year converting a 1984 Mercedes Benz 300 to run on biodiesel used vegetable oil collected from local restaurants and processed into fuel. Theyll show off the car as well as radios, robots and other alternative energy projects at Saturdays San Luis Obispo Mini Maker Faire, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. in Mission Plaza in downtown San Luis Obispo. Hosted by the San Luis Obispo Museum of Art and other organizations, the free, all-ages event showcases do-it-yourself innovators and their contributions to science, engineering and the arts. Diodati, whos in his first year teaching engineering and physics at Templeton High, says his students appreciate a hands-on approach to education. They tell me that theyre having so much fun they dont feel like theyre learning, he said, but at the end of the year, theyve learned a lot. Diodati said the biodiesel conversion project was funded via a $6,400 grant from the nonprofit Templeton Education Foundation. The car, in turn, will be auctioned off at the foundations Sept. 21 fundraiser at Castoro Cellars in Templeton, with proceeds benefiting future engineering projects at the school. My goal is to invite students to get their own cars and convert them, Diodati said. According to Principal Andrew Cherry, its all part of Templeton High Schools ongoing campaign to expose students to science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). The STEM Certification Academy, which starts next school year, will offer Templeton High students the opportunity to explore those fields more thoroughly. STEM Certification Academy participants can either stick with general STEM curriculum, including biology, chemistry and physics, or choose to focus on specific strands such as computer science, health careers, mechanical engineering or molecular sciences. They then have the chance to participate in a yearlong senior research project or internship. We want kids who are really passionate about a subject to pick a group of classes that keeps them excited through school, explained Cherry, adding that the list of strands may eventually expand to include agricultural science and engineering, mathematics and the humanities. About 10
Re: [Biofuel] Templeton High students convert Mercedes to run on biodiesel
Once again, to clarify a misconception: Diesel engines do not have to be modified (converted) to run on biodiesel. Biodiesel is simply added to the fuel tank and you start the vehicle and drive as you would if it was running on petro diesel. Diesel engines do require modifications to run on straight vegetable oil (SVO) that has not been converted into biodiesel. Tom http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2013/05/10/2503744/templeton-high-students-convert.html Templeton High students convert Mercedes to run on biodiesel Published: May 10, 2013 By Sarah Linn When it comes to engineering projects, Templeton High School students are definitely driven. Jason Diodatis students have spent the school year converting a 1984 Mercedes Benz 300 to run on biodiesel used vegetable oil collected from local restaurants and processed into fuel. Theyll show off the car as well as radios, robots and other alternative energy projects at Saturdays San Luis Obispo Mini Maker Faire, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. in Mission Plaza in downtown San Luis Obispo. Hosted by the San Luis Obispo Museum of Art and other organizations, the free, all-ages event showcases do-it-yourself innovators and their contributions to science, engineering and the arts. Diodati, whos in his first year teaching engineering and physics at Templeton High, says his students appreciate a hands-on approach to education. They tell me that theyre having so much fun they dont feel like theyre learning, he said, but at the end of the year, theyve learned a lot. Diodati said the biodiesel conversion project was funded via a $6,400 grant from the nonprofit Templeton Education Foundation. The car, in turn, will be auctioned off at the foundations Sept. 21 fundraiser at Castoro Cellars in Templeton, with proceeds benefiting future engineering projects at the school. My goal is to invite students to get their own cars and convert them, Diodati said. According to Principal Andrew Cherry, its all part of Templeton High Schools ongoing campaign to expose students to science, technology, engineering and math (STEM). The STEM Certification Academy, which starts next school year, will offer Templeton High students the opportunity to explore those fields more thoroughly. STEM Certification Academy participants can either stick with general STEM curriculum, including biology, chemistry and physics, or choose to focus on specific strands such as computer science, health careers, mechanical engineering or molecular sciences. They then have the chance to participate in a yearlong senior research project or internship. We want kids who are really passionate about a subject to pick a group of classes that keeps them excited through school, explained Cherry, adding that the list of strands may eventually expand to include agricultural science and engineering, mathematics and the humanities. About 10 Templeton High teachers will participate in the STEM Certification Academy, Cherry said. So far, about 60 students have applied to enroll in the program, which is open to incoming sophomores, juniors and seniors. Kids nowadays are looking to have a defined goal, Cherry said. They want a purpose, and I feel like (the program) is giving them that purpose. In addition, he said, STEM certification will give students an extra edge upon graduation. Through the STEM Certification Academy, Diodati said, We can help students be more competitive in the job market and more competitive in college. For more information about the STEM Certification Academy, contact Andrew Cherry at 434-5888 or email ache...@templetonusd.org. Inquiries about purchasing the biodiesel car should be directed to Jason Diodati at jdiod...@templetonusd.org. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Village Bank helps Newton teachers get their own wheels, students make the gas (err, biodiesel)
Ain't it great. Teaching kids, early, that it doesn't have to be done the way it is being done. Tom http://www.wickedlocal.com/newton/news/x94504317/Village-Bank-helps-Newton-teachers-get-their-own-wheels-students-make-the-gas?rssfeed=true#axzz2SkQq1AJg Village Bank helps Newton teachers get their own wheels, students make the gas By Jim Morrison Wicked Local Newton Posted May 07, 2013 @ 10:15 AM Last update May 07, 2013 @ 10:31 AM Newton The Newton Public School system has purchased a new diesel bus, thanks to a $40,000 donation from The Village Bank. The bus will run on biodiesel made from used cooking oil donated by Legal Sea Foods, which student greengineers at Newton Norths Innovation Lab convert to fuel themselves. Chief Innovation Officer Stephen Chinosi, a teacher at Newton North, said that renting a bus for field trips costs about $350 each time and the expense cuts down on students ability to travel. The new bus seats 14, making it easier for faculty and students to travel between schools or go on field trips. Another perk: trained faculty can drive the bus saving more money. The bus belongs to all of Newtons 21 schools and will help them strengthen their connection to one another by facilitating travel, according to Chinosi. Chinosi said he hopes to use the new bus to take students on tours of innovating local businesses and universities like Google, Microsoft, Harvard and M.I.T. People think of Silicon Valley when they think of innovation, but we have innovation right here in Boston, said Chinosi. Chinosi said that it took a long time to find a bus that met his specifications and fit his budget. Once he found the right vehicle, the bus was given a thorough inspection and OK by the City DPW. The school district got such a good deal on the 2005 Ford E350 Super Duty bus which cost $18,000--that they are looking for another gas-powered, handicap accessible bus as well. Noting the many different city departments involved with this project, Newtons Director of Planning and Development Candace Havens, called it a great example of collaboration. Wed love to see more of this kind of thing, said Havens, but it will be a hard act to follow. Superintendent of Schools Dr. David Fleishman said the challenge was part of the appeal. This was not easy to pull off, but when you think of all the challenges it presented--thats good learning, Fleishman said. The fact that its environmentally sound is another wonderful victory. The Village Bank President and CEO Kenneth Brennan said that the bank was receptive to the idea of donating when they were approached by Chinosi, in part because of the Innovations labs imaginative hands-on style of teaching. Its truly a model for what education should be, Brennan said. Newton North Junior Dan Smith, 16, gave a tour of the Innovation Lab following the unveiling of the new bus. Smith demonstrated an ecological project where water from a fish tank is pumped up into a bed of bacteria. The bacteria consume the fish waste in the water, leaving nitrates and water to flow down into plants in containers. The plants consume the nitrates, cleaning the water, which then drains back into the fish tanks. Innovation lab students also drink smoothies made in blenders powered by bicycles and make hammocks and parasols from donated reusuable shopping bags. Smith loves working in the lab. Its amazing, he said. The best thing is, they dont treat us like children. == [My wife and I once enjoyed a lovely lunch at a Legal Sea Foods restaurant in Boston - this item revived some fond memories.] ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Honey Bee Die-Off Caused by Multiple Factors Including Pesticides
I suggest that anyone who is interested in gaining insight into the problems bees are facing, and to get a boost of hope for the future of the honeybee visit with Sam Comfort of Anarchy Apiaries in the Hudson Valley of New York (USA). Go to anarchyapiaries.org and open the video in the upper right. Sam was my mentor during a two year experiment in which I raised honeybees in a Top Bar Hive w/o using pesticides or antibiotics. I still have a few jars of their honey and a couple of honey combs in my freezer. Sam breeds Queens from local wild and abandoned hives that have survived w/o human interference for several years. The hive that I got from him came from the wall of a barn at Chaseholm Farm, just over the hill from me. Google: Sam Comfort or top bar hives Tom http://truth-out.org/news/item/16156-honey-bee-die-off-caused-by-multiple-factors-including-pesticides Honey Bee Die-Off Caused by Multiple Factors Including Pesticides Friday, 03 May 2013 14:31 By Theresa Riley, Moyers Company | Report [images in on-line article] A federal study released today attributes the massive die-off in American honey bee colonies to a combination of factors, including pesticides, poor diet, parasites and a lack of genetic diversity. Nearly a third of honey bee colonies in the United States have been wiped out since 2006. The estimated value of crops lost if bees were no longer able to pollinate fruits and vegetables is around $15 billion. The report comes on the heels of an announcement Monday by the European Union that they are banning the use of pesticides that may be harmful to bees for two years. The measure is being closely watched here because the insecticides, known as neonicotinoids, have been in wide use for the past decade. Many studies, including the study released today by the USDA, have made a link between the insecticides which are used to ward off pests such as aphids and beetles and honeybee deaths. European researchers will conduct further experiments over the two-year period to assess whether the chemicals are a contributing factor in colony collapse disorder. U.S. beekeepers have been reporting annual hive deaths of about 30 percent or higher for much of the past 10 years, but this past winter marked the worst loss ever nearly 40 to 50 percent or more. The loss was so bad that Californias almond growers had to scramble to find enough bees to pollinate the states 800,000 acres of almond trees this spring. Tim Tucker, vice-president of the American Beekeeping Federation and owner of Tuckerbees Honey, which lost half of its hives this past winter, told The Guardian: Other crops dont need as many bees as the California almond orchards do, so shortages are not yet apparent, but if trends continue, there will be. Current [bee] losses are not sustainable. The trend is down, as is the quality of bees. In the long run, if we dont find some answers, and the vigor continues to decline, we could lose a lot of bees. In a show of concern, the Environmental Protection Agency sent three representatives to the San Joaquin Valley in California for discussions. A coalition of beekeepers, environmental and consumer groups sued the EPA last week for its failure to protect bees from harmful pesticides. In Europe, the decision to institute the moratorium was not without controversy. BBC News reports that leading up to Mondays decision, lobbying was ferocious on both sides. Nearly three million signatures were collected in support of a ban. Chemical and pesticide manufacturers argued that the science is inconclusive and that a ban could inhibit food production. Experts at the USDA, EPA and others involved in the federal bee study concluded that there was not enough evidence to support a ban in the United States, and that the cost of imposing one could outweigh the benefits. They recommended further research be done. Jay Feldman, the executive director of Beyond Pesticides, said in a statement, were happy to see the EU take a leadership role to remove from the market these chemicals associated with colony collapse disorder and hazards to bee health. Well continue to push EPA through legal and advocacy means to follow-up with urgent actions needed to protect bees. Find out more about the BEE Protective campaign and how you can protect wild bees in our Take Action section. Watch Dance of the Honey Bee, a short film by Peter Nelson, narrated by Bill McKibben. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Some Boise taxis to be converted to run on biodiesel
Some Boise taxis to be converted to run on biodiesel What conversion? I got my '82 Mercedes 300SD back in 2005 and converted it to biodiesel by pouring my homebrew into the tank. Conversions are necessary to run diesel engines on vegetable oil. Biodiesel is made from veg oil (or animal fat). The oil is converted to biodiesel, the vehicle doesn't have to be. Tom http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2013/04/some_boise_taxis_to_be_convert.html Some Boise taxis to be converted to run on biodiesel By The Associated Press on April 29, 2013 at 9:56 AM BOISE A Boise taxi company is converting older Mercedes-Benz models to run on biodiesel. ReCab co-owner James Orr tells KBOI-TV he got the idea from his love of vintage cars and the environment. He says the cars are reliable and the concept was spawned when he realized they could be used in such an environmentally friendly way. Biodiesel cars use fuel from vegetable oil and they emit less carbon dioxide than regular vehicles The taxis won't be on the road until at least mid-May. ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] NREL survey shows dramatic improvement in B100 biodiesel quality
The latest national survey of 100% biodiesel (B100)
blend stock samples by the U.S. Department of Energy's
National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) found that
95% of the samples from 2011-12 met ASTM International
fuel quality specifications.
..
The survey showed a major improvement over results from
previous years, NREL Senior Chemist Teresa Alleman said.
{samples}
were tested for a range of critical properties,
such as free and total glycerin content, metals
content, and cloud point
that could have an immediate impact on operability.
immediate impact on operability
I'd like my diesel engine to run trouble-free for many
thousands of miles.
Why do vehicle manufacturers maintain warrantees on
their vehicles that run on biodiesel (B100) that meets
CEN standards (European Committee for Standardization),
but void warrantees on the same vehicles when run on B100
made in countries that used ASTM standards (American
Society for Testing and Materials)?
A major concern has been the tendency of the fuel to
oxidize. This tendency is indicated by Iodine Value
(IV) which is part of CEN standards, but not ASTM
standards.
All vegetable oils and the biodiesel made from them will
eventually oxidize forming a varnish-like goo. Iodine
value has been presumed to accurately indicate the
tendency of oil, and the biodiesel made from it, to
oxidize.
Many Biodiesel fuel standards specify an upper limit
for iodine value of biodiesel. For example, Europe's
EN14214 specification allows a maximum of 120 for the
Iodine number, Germany's DIN 51606 tops out at 115. The
USA ASTM D6751 does not specify an Iodine value.
It might be noted that the European and German
specifications result in a defacto ban on Soy based
biodiesel as it's iodine value is above the acceptable
limit.
While the European standards' iodine value measures the
number of double bonds in the hydrocarbon chains, there
is some dispute as to whether or not it is a reliable
indication of actual oxidation tendency. (Position of
the double bonds in the molecule, contamination with
metals, and other factors may play a significant role).
ASTM now includes an Oxidation Stability Index (OSI).
It attempts to determine actual oxidation of biodiesel as
measured by changes in electrical conductivity after air
flow exposure.
It is interesting to note what the CEN and ASTM
consider to be acceptable oxidation tendencies, whether
determined by by Iodine Value or OSI. The CEN accepts
Iodine Values below 120, which allows for biodiesel
made from rapeseed and other oils, but not from soy.
I believe CEN now includes OSI values (6.0 and up) that
allow for the same rapeseed biodiesel, but still excludes
biodiesel made from soy. The ASTM accepts biodiesel with
much lower OSI values, which, coincidently, includes
biodiesel made from soy oil.
While some say that the CEN standard is arbitrarily
high. I'm not sure arbitrary is appropriate when
applied to a standard that is based on years of
experience. More likely, the ASTM standard that allows
for soy-based biodiesel is dangerously low.
Note: Veg oil and the biodiesel made from it are
relatively stable. Once oxidation starts the rate of
oxidation rapidly accelerates. This point at which
oxidation becomes clearly measurable is called the
Induction Period (OS-IP). The higher the number, (in
hours) the better the oil or biodiesel resists
oxidation.
Note: The low OS-IP number allowed in ASTM standards has
been defended by some by citing a study in which biodiesel
made from various veg oils (with various OS-IP's) fueled
engines which were ultimately disassembled and found to
have no significant differences in build-up on surfaces.
This suggests that little or no oxidation occurred during
the high temp and pressure of combustion in the engines,
regardless of oxidation stability values.
The problem with this is that a major concern with
oxidation involves storage. Although the test to
determine OS-IP is performed on biodiesel at elevated
temp (110C) and with enhanced exposure to air, the
resulting OS-IP is given in hours. Fuel with low OS-IP
values that which has been stored for long periods may
well contain varnish-like products of oxidation that we
wouldn't want to put in our fuel tanks.
Consider that fresh biodiesel mixed with older fuel in
a storage tank, might well be exposed to the very
oxidation products that will accelerate oxidation. It
would seem prudent to go with high, yet achievable
Oxidation Stability values even if soy oil, a
convenient and profitable feedstock, may have to be
excluded from biodiesel destined for our vehicles. (I
have used biodiesel made from soy to heat my house and
provide domestic hot water for about 10 years w/o
problem. It's easier and cheaper to change a nozzle on
a burner than to replace injectors/fuel pumps on cars.)
An interesting reference article:
http://www.oleotek.org/FichiersUpload/Softsystem/NRCan-OLEOTEK
Study of the Rancimat Test Method
Re: [Biofuel] NREL survey shows dramatic improvement in B100 biodiesel quality
The years of experience I am referring to is my
understanding that B100 has been available in Europe
for years. The CEN standards have apparently ensured
satisfactory fuel quality. I'm not aware of the
politics of rapeseed oil or of its cost.
The debate seems to revolve around the question of
whether the CEN standard for oxidation stability is too
high or the ASTM standard is too low.
Your expertise is recognized.
What is an acceptable OS-IP value?
What oils might meet this acceptable value?
I've run cars on biodiesel made from various and
unknown oil types. (These include soy.) My fuel is rarely
stored longer than a month. I avoid metals like copper and
zinc in production, storage, and delivery of fuel.
If there is a question of oxidation the fuel goes to my
heating system, not the cars.
Tom
It is nice indeed that someone finally took this side
of
biodiesel
quality to debate. The years of experience that you are
referring to is
something that I have not seen documented anywhere, can
even less judge
the relevance. It is well known that the CEN 14214 is
tailored for rape
seed oil as raw material and there has been a lot of
critisism for that.
The reason for this tailorship is unknown but it smells
politics and
even nationalism. What is even more disturbing is that
the use of
anti-oxidants is not aloud in the CEN, in order to meet
the parameters.
The truth today is that good rape seed oil is so
expensive that almost
no biodiesel producer can use that raw material.
It is good with quality, of course, but defining
quality
is another cup
of tea.
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 08:59:41 -0400 (EDT), Thomas
Kelly
ontheh...@fairpoint.net wrote:
The latest national survey of 100% biodiesel (B100)
blend stock samples by the U.S. Department of
Energy's
National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) found that
95% of the samples from 2011-12 met ASTM International
fuel quality specifications.
..
The survey showed a major improvement over results
from
previous years, NREL Senior Chemist Teresa Alleman
said.
{samples}
were tested for a range of critical properties,
such as free and total glycerin content, metals
content, and cloud point
that could have an immediate impact on operability.
immediate impact on operability
I'd like my diesel engine to run trouble-free for
many
thousands of miles.
Why do vehicle manufacturers maintain warrantees on
their vehicles that run on biodiesel (B100) that meets
CEN standards (European Committee for Standardization),
but void warrantees on the same vehicles when run on
B100
made in countries that used ASTM standards (American
Society for Testing and Materials)?
A major concern has been the tendency of the fuel to
oxidize. This tendency is indicated by Iodine Value
(IV) which is part of CEN standards, but not ASTM
standards.
All vegetable oils and the biodiesel made from them
will
eventually oxidize forming a varnish-like goo. Iodine
value has been presumed to accurately indicate the
tendency of oil, and the biodiesel made from it, to
oxidize.
Many Biodiesel fuel standards specify an upper limit
for iodine value of biodiesel. For example, Europe's
EN14214 specification allows a maximum of 120 for the
Iodine number, Germany's DIN 51606 tops out at 115. The
USA ASTM D6751 does not specify an Iodine value.
It might be noted that the European and German
specifications result in a defacto ban on Soy based
biodiesel as it's iodine value is above the acceptable
limit.
While the European standards' iodine value measures
the
number of double bonds in the hydrocarbon chains, there
is some dispute as to whether or not it is a reliable
indication of actual oxidation tendency. (Position of
the double bonds in the molecule, contamination with
metals, and other factors may play a significant role).
ASTM now includes an Oxidation Stability Index
(OSI).
It attempts to determine actual oxidation of biodiesel
as
measured by changes in electrical conductivity after
air
flow exposure.
It is interesting to note what the CEN and ASTM
consider to be acceptable oxidation tendencies, whether
determined by by Iodine Value or OSI. The CEN accepts
Iodine Values below 120, which allows for biodiesel
made from rapeseed and other oils, but not from soy.
I believe CEN now includes OSI values (6.0 and up) that
allow for the same rapeseed biodiesel, but still
excludes
biodiesel made from soy. The ASTM accepts biodiesel
with
much lower OSI values, which, coincidently, includes
biodiesel made from soy oil.
While some say that the CEN standard is arbitrarily
high. I'm not sure arbitrary is appropriate when
applied to a standard that is based on years of
experience. More likely, the ASTM standard that allows
for soy-based biodiesel is dangerously low.
Note: Veg oil and the biodiesel made from it are
relatively stable. Once oxidation
Re: [Biofuel] NREL survey shows dramatic improvement in B100 biodiesel quality
No offense taken.
I'm thrilled to be able pick your brain.
(Maybe not a global idiom: as in get inside; gain from
your insight)
BHT has long been used to extend shelf life of veg oils.
Natural antioxidants such as tocopherols are known to
increase oxidation stability of veg oils and in the
biodiesel made from them. What objection is there to using
BHT as an additive to extend shelf life of biodiesel?
Misinformation abounds. I was under the impression
that B100 was accepted and readily available
throughout Europe.
Tom
Sorry Tom, did not mean to offend you.
The experience that you are referring to should involve
the fact that
almost no B100 is sold i Europe. The BD is blended into
dino with 4-7%
by weight. That about the experience of EN quality.
Furthermore, the
oxidation stability seems to be a topic only when
storage
time is
discussed. The companies sellning BHT seems to focus on
that. But, given
the conditions in a veichle´s fuel tank during
operation, it seems
likely that the oxidation stability is of importance
there too. The fuel
tanks can become hot 70-80oC I am told. But if you can
run your car om
Soy BD without problems under all conditions, then the
issue is simply
storage capacity. But then again,if you can store your
BD
for three
months without any significant changes in peroxide and
anidin values,
then it´s ok.
I am not able to give you an ideal OS-IP value, but my
personal opinion
is that the CEN value is over the top.
Fresh oils with low peroxide and anidine values have
better chance to
stay fresh as biodiesel.
Good thing to avoid copper and zinc. Copper creates
disaster with the
BD. All copper alloys should be forbidden in connection
with BD,
including brass and bronze.
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 11:32:46 -0400 (EDT), Thomas
Kelly
ontheh...@fairpoint.net wrote:
The years of experience I am referring to is my
understanding that B100 has been available in Europe
for years. The CEN standards have apparently ensured
satisfactory fuel quality. I'm not aware of the
politics of rapeseed oil or of its cost.
The debate seems to revolve around the question of
whether the CEN standard for oxidation stability is too
high or the ASTM standard is too low.
Your expertise is recognized.
What is an acceptable OS-IP value?
What oils might meet this acceptable value?
I've run cars on biodiesel made from various and
unknown oil types. (These include soy.) My fuel is
rarely
stored longer than a month. I avoid metals like copper
and
zinc in production, storage, and delivery of fuel.
If there is a question of oxidation the fuel goes to
my
heating system, not the cars.
Tom
It is nice indeed that someone finally took this side
of
biodiesel
quality to debate. The years of experience that you
are
referring to is
something that I have not seen documented anywhere,
can
even less judge
the relevance. It is well known that the CEN 14214 is
tailored for rape
seed oil as raw material and there has been a lot of
critisism for that.
The reason for this tailorship is unknown but it
smells
politics and
even nationalism. What is even more disturbing is
that
the use of
anti-oxidants is not aloud in the CEN, in order to
meet
the parameters.
The truth today is that good rape seed oil is so
expensive that almost
no biodiesel producer can use that raw material.
It is good with quality, of course, but defining
quality
is another cup
of tea.
On Tue, 30 Apr 2013 08:59:41 -0400 (EDT), Thomas
Kelly
ontheh...@fairpoint.net wrote:
The latest national survey of 100% biodiesel (B100)
blend stock samples by the U.S. Department of
Energy's
National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) found
that
95% of the samples from 2011-12 met ASTM
International
fuel quality specifications.
..
The survey showed a major improvement over results
from
previous years, NREL Senior Chemist Teresa Alleman
said.
{samples}
were tested for a range of critical properties,
such as free and total glycerin content, metals
content, and cloud point
that could have an immediate impact on
operability.
immediate impact on operability
I'd like my diesel engine to run trouble-free for
many
thousands of miles.
Why do vehicle manufacturers maintain warrantees
on
their vehicles that run on biodiesel (B100) that
meets
CEN standards (European Committee for
Standardization),
but void warrantees on the same vehicles when run on
B100
made in countries that used ASTM standards (American
Society for Testing and Materials)?
A major concern has been the tendency of the fuel
to
oxidize. This tendency is indicated by Iodine Value
(IV) which is part of CEN standards, but not ASTM
standards.
All vegetable oils and the biodiesel made from them
will
eventually oxidize forming a varnish-like goo. Iodine
value has been presumed to accurately
[Biofuel] Homebrewed Biofuel
Hello to All, I've noticed some complaints that there is a lack of biofuel discussion on the list. It was through this list and the information at Journey to Forever that I learned how to make biodiesel almost 10 years ago. Since then I have run two cars and have heated my house and domestic hot water on homebrewed BD. I began by reading the information provided at Journey to Forever, including the step-by-step instructions. I posted questions to the list and described problems I was having. I will be forever thankful for the help the homebrew greybeards gave me in their thoughtful responses. I assume that anyone posting to this list can read as well as write. Read. Post questions. Describe problems. I'll be happy to help if I can. My crystal ball is in the shop. I don't know what you want to know about biofuels unless you ask. Thanks to All, Tom ___ Sustainablelorgbiofuel mailing list Sustainablelorgbiofuel@lists.sustainablelists.org http://lists.eruditium.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil
Used motor oil contains metals, including dangerous heavy metals. Because of the presence of heavy metal contaminants there are often restrictions on the burning of WMO in residential heating systems in countries that have air quality regulations. Filtering of waste motor oil, I hope, would include a away to remove the metals, before recycling it. While non-synthetic motor oil does experience thermal breakdown, synthetic motor oil does not. Is recycling only done on synthetic motor oil? Notes: -Samples of used motor oil can be analysed. The presence/concentrations of metal contaminants can help determine wear to specific engine parts. This can be useful to companies, ex. bus companies, that have fleets of vehicles, in determining maintenance schedules and replacement of parts. -The company that delivers methanol to me provides this service (analysis of used motor oil). Their representative explained to me that motor oil contains additives including cleansers that effectively bind microparticles (soot) together so the filter(s) are better able to remove them. In the case of synthetic motor oil the oil itself is still good, and the reason to change the oil is that the cleansers have been removed. The difference between synthetic motor oils that must be changed every 8 or 9 thousand miles and those newer ones that are good for 15,000 miles is the amount of additives put in. There are filters available that can accomodate the increased stuff filtered from the newer, higher mileage synthetic oils. -These additives and filters do not remove the metals, including dangerous heavy metal, that contaminate the oil. If they did, analysis for them in the oil would be of little diagnostic value. Tom Hi Zeke Is filtering all that's required? Filtering what, I wonder, little bits of engine that get worn off? Isn't that what the oil is supposed to prevent? By the time it needs changing, isn't the oil itself somewhat worn out, having been subjected to all that heat and high pressure? Just asking. Regards Keith Bio based, no... but I have seen, in the last few months, introduction of a whole line of recycled engine oils in the local auto parts stores here. I'm not really sure what the recycled content is percentage wise, but apparently it's using old engine oil, filtering all the bad stuff out, and adding back in the additives that have been used up. It's supposed to meet the same standards as new petro-based engine oil. Z On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Keith et al. I am not surprised on the market non-introduction of castor oil lubricants. Castor oil, although a classic, is not ideal as a raw material for lubricant formulations. The castor oil has two hydroxyl groups on the fatty acid (ricinic acid) chain which will want to polymerize and releasing water into the system, giving the lubricant an unnecessary short life. What attracts the lubricant inventors is the high viscosity and the expected high viscosity index of the oil which both looks promising enough. But I would prefer a more stable material to start with and then adjusting the viscosity values chemically. A good lubricant consist from a base oil and then added a number of additives in order to adjust the properties of the lubricant. It is then preferable to bring as favourable properties already in the base oil in order to minimize the addition of additives. Best to you all Jan W - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio Engine Oil Hi Chris and Dawie The answer seems to be No. Sorry to say. It was first discussed here in 2001. Lots of interesting stuff in the list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Try bio engine oil or biolubricant. (Don't forget, the whole thread is hotlinked at the end of each find.) If you do a web search, you'll find lots of talk, lots of products that are simply biodegradeable, green lubricants to replace the likes of WD-40 or 2-stroke oil, and a few commercial bio engine oils, with claims that they're made from renewable resources but they don't say what, or they're a marriage of renewables (pig fat) and nano-tech, or whatever, but nothing DIYable. I knew some people in Japan who were making bio engine oil from castor oil. They wouldn't tell me how they were doing it, but they gave me a bottle of it. Clear, light yellow, sort of oily smell. But after a while it started degrading, whisps of cloudiness started appearing. Not perfect, and they never brought a product to market. Still, castor oil is probably the best bet. It's strange stuff - give this a read: http://www.georgiacombat.com/CASTOR_OIL.htm IIRC
Re: [Biofuel] How do I get the paper thin white layer
Ian, Passing the methanol test indicates that you successfully converted the veg oil to biodiesel. What would settle out is unconverted oil mono-, di-, tri-glycerides, not glycerine. The problem may be with settling/separation upon settling, prior to washing. A small amount of glycerine in the BD would not separate out in the methanol test, and could contribute to the formation of the layer between the BD and the water. How long do you let the mix settle before separating BD to be washed? Once settled, does your method for separating BD (to be washed) ensure that there is no glycerine contamination? Tom Hello to all. I've made two test batches of biodiesel using new oil using the instructions on the JTF site, which I've read and re-read, along with many of the mailing list posts. I'm enjoying everything I'm learning, but still have a ton to learn. I also have a question. In both my test batches I've performed the quality tests recommended. The fuel passes the methanol test fine, with no glycerine settling out. When I come to the wash test, I have perhaps an eighth of an inch of white foam between the water and the biodiesel. It separates quite well though. I've tried to follow all instructions to the letter and I ordered my chemicals from DudaDiesel, so I assume they are a good quality. I assume the foam is soap. It could be that my measurements aren't precise enough, but if they aren't it's because of my instruments. I have been very meticulous in my measurements. I've gone ahead and washed the biodiesel from both batches, and they also have a lot of white foam, although they also separate very quickly. With both batches I've just kept washing until there's no more white junk and the water is clear. Does this take care of the soap (if that's what it is), or is there still something to be concerned about? Also, any suggestions on how to get that paper thin white layer instead of the thicker one I have now? I'm using new oil, what I think are quality chemicals, and I'm being as meticulous as I know how to be. As far as I know, I'm following your instructions to the letter. I thank you for your help, Ian -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20110907/565c4278/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] %FFA of vegetable oil
Shawn, You ask: • Are we to assume 1mole of KOH nuetralizes 1mole of OA as does NaOH • What %KOH is to be used as with this assumption, is there some compensation factor for vary %KOH I will give it a try. The following is based on information provided at JtF. Any mistakes I make are mine alone. 1. • Are we to assume 1mole of KOH nuetralizes 1mole of OA as does NaOH Yes, I would think that 1 mole of KOH would neutralize 1 mole of Oleic Acid as does 1 mole of NaOH. A mole of a substance contains the same number of molecules as a mole of any other substance. If 1 NaOH molecule neutralizes 1 O.A. molecule, then 1 KOH will also neutralize 1 O.A. 2. • What %KOH is to be used as with this assumption, is there some compensation factor for vary %KOH It is important to know the concentration (purity) of the KOH being used in order to calculate the molarity of the KOH titration solution. That is, how do you know how much mass constitutes a mole of a substance if you don't know the purity of the substance you are measuring? You may want to skip to* To be sure we are talking about the same thing: A mole of a substance is equal to the molecular mass of the substance in grams. A mole of Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) = 40 g i.e. The sum of the atomic masses ofNa (23) O (16) and H (1) A mole of Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) = 56 g K (39) + O (16) + H (1) Therefore in order to achieve equal molarity, we must increase KOH over NaOH by a factor of 1.4 (56 divided by 40) To do the calculations described by Biofuel Systems using a KOH titration solution rather than a 0.1% NaOH titration solution we must do two things. 1. Either a) make KOH solution of equal molarity (0.025 M) to the NaOH solution by dissolving 1.4g KOH to get a 1L titration solution (0.025moles/L X 56 g KOH/mole = 1.4g KOH/L) Orb) make a 0.1% solution of pure KOH and multiply titration results by 1.4 Orc) make a 0.1% solution of pure KOH realizing that it is a 0.0179 molar solution rather than the 0.025 molar solution used in the calculations and then use 0.0179 moles in the calculation of Oleic Acid mass 2. As was pointed out by Keith, NaOH is typically used as a titration solution because it is easily obtained at purities approaching 100%. KOH is typically 90% pure or even 85% pure. To compensate for this one must divide the amount of KOH by its purity to determine the number of grams needed to produce a mole of KOH Ex: 56 g of 100% pure KOH = 1 mole of KOH If the KOH is 90% pure:divide 56g by .9- 62.2g of the KOH = 1 mole *** To compensate for titration results obtained from a 0.1% KOH titration solution (To get the results that would be produced on the same veg oil using a 0.1% NaOH titration solution.) a. Multiply KOH titration results by the purity b. Then divide by 1.4 Ex If 3ml of 0.1% KOH (made from 90% KOH) neutralized 1ml of veg oil: a) 3ml (hence 3mg KOH of 90% KOH)) X .9 = 2.7ml (made from pure KOH) b) 2.7ml divided by 1.4 = 1.93ml 1.93 ml of 0.1% NaOH solution would have neutralized the same volume of the same veg oil as 3ml of 0.1% KOH solution made from 90% KOH Use the 1.93ml in the calculation provided by Biofuel Systems. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] %FFA of vegetable oil I guess I am not clear on a few of the following points: • Are we to assume 1mole of KOH nuetralizes 1mole of OA as does NaOH • What %KOH is to be used as with this assumption, is there some compensation factor for vary %KOH Shawn - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2009 2:17:42 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Biofuel] %FFA of vegetable oil Found this email in my list of unopened and I am curious... For those of us who use KOH... How would this formula translate... The same way as usual. What's the difficulty? Everybody uses KOH, or they should, but titration levels are usually given for NaOH. A good reason for that is that NaOH is always the same concentration, 99%+, and KOH varies. Are you assuming that the Biofuel Systems calculation is correct? I don't know if it's correct or not. Keith Shawn - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 6:01:34 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [Biofuel] %FFA of vegetable oil Hi all I've seen several conflicting ratios for converting homebrewer titration results of # ml 0.1% NaOH solution to % FFA. This below is from Biofuel Systems in the UK
Re: [Biofuel] %FFA of vegetable oil
Keith, I was hoping to hear from someone with greater expertise in the area, but will pass along my thoughts. I'm not sure that the calculations provided from Biofuels Systems are accurate for the following reasons. 1. The % FFA calculations were based on the neutralization of Oleic Acid (molecular mass = 283). The idea, as I see it, is that calculations can be made to determine the mass of substances consumed in reactions, if we know the mass of one of the consumed reactants and know the ratio(s) of the involved reactants. Ex. If we know the mass of NaOH needed to neutralize a known volume of a specific acid, and we know that there exists a 1-to-1 ratio for the reaction, we can calculate the mass of the acid that is neutralized. -However many moles of NaOH were consumed will equal the moles of acid neutralized. -The mass of the acid neutralized = moles neutralized X mol. mass of the acid Problem: Used vegetable oils have a mix of free fatty acids, with different molecular masses, and hence different masses per mole. To do an accurate calculation of % FFA in veg oil, I think we would need to know the specific FFAs present, in what concentrations, and the molecular mass of each. After all, We wouldn't use a titration solution with an unknown mix of NaOH and KOH to do a quantitative analysis. 2. To determine %, one divides the total mass by the mass of the individual component and then multiply by 100 Ex. 1 g of NaOH + enough distilled water to equal 1 L The total mass of the solution = 1000g 1g NaOH divided by 1000g = .001X 100 = 0.1% The Biofuel Systems calculations state that there is 0.7063 g of FFA in 100ml of oil. It then divides mass by volume (). It assumes that 100ml of the oil has a mass of 100g. This would be true if it was water instead of oil. The veg oils I am familiar with float on water indicating a lower density ... I think along the order of 0.9g/ml At 0.9g/ml, the 100ml sample of veg oil would have a mass of 90g 0.7063g divided by 90g X 100 = 0.785% vs The 0.71% calculated in the example provided by Biofuel systems. If the oil being tested is very high in oleic acid, and we use the density of the oil when calculating %, I suspect we could get a ballpark figure for % FFAs in a sample of veg oil. We might just as well use 0.75 - 0.80 as a coefficient (constant) and multiply it times the NaOH titration result rather than going through the laborious calculations described. Although I've heard it referred to, I don't know why one would want to know %FFA in veg oil. Best to You, Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 7:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] %FFA of vegetable oil Hi all I've seen several conflicting ratios for converting homebrewer titration results of # ml 0.1% NaOH solution to % FFA. This below is from Biofuel Systems in the UK http://www.biofuelsystems.com/. Can anyone confirm whether it's correct or not? How to determine percentage free fatty acid (%FFA) of vegetable oil / used cooking oil Add 10ml of oil to 100ml of isopropyl alchohol (propan-2-ol) Mix thoroughly until oil dissolves. Add a few drops of Universal Indicator solution (UI) Measure how much 0.025M sodium hydroxide solution (1g NaOH / 1 litre water) is required to neutralise the oil solution - ie. raise pH to 8 / turn UI blue/green While continually stirring this mixture, add the NaOH solution drop by drop until the mixture turns and remains green / blue. Note the number of millilitres (ml) of NaOH solution required to do this. In stoichiometric terms, 1 mole NaOH will neutralise 1 mole of oleic acid (OA) Firstly, determine how many moles of NaOH have been usedS Moles = molarity (mol/l) x volume (l) = [ molarity x volume (ml) ÷ 1000 ] Example If 10ml of NaOH solution was used Moles of NaOH = (molarity of solution x volume in ml) ÷ 1000 = (0.025 x 10) ÷ 1000 = 0.00025 moles of NaOH Therefore, the equivalent to 0.00025 moles of OA have been neutralised mass = moles x molecular weight (molecular weight of OA is 282.52 Daltons) mass of OA in 10ml sample = 0.00025 x 282.52 = 0.07063 = 0.7063g per 100ml of oil rounding to 2 decimal places, %FFA = 0.71 Put simply... %FFA = number ml 0.025M NaOH solution used x 0.07063 - Since most homebrewers use 1 ml of oil in 10 ml of isopropanol, that would be: %FFA = number ml 0.025M NaOH solution used x 0.7063 I guess blue/green Universal Indicator solution is the same as magenta phenolphthalein, no? Thanks! Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Unprocessable oil?
Hello to All, Any clear oil mainly the brand name Harvest oil which is clear soy oil, will not drop any glycerin at all. On the boxes from one of my sources of used veg oil is a white label; written in green letters: Harvest value Clear Vegetable Oil It is soy oil; location: US. I have been using this WVO to make biodiesel for years. I have not had any problems with recent batches. Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Unprocessable oil? Hello all There was a thread a while back concerning a batch of WVO that simply wouldn't process. I don't think the list figured out why not, and concluded it must be something the supplier was adding to extend the life of the oil (that was when the food prices were soaring, along with oil prices). I think it was in the US. Someone just wrote to me with a similar problem: Keith, I have been making my own biodiesel for many years and the introduction the last year or to of tbhq and the anti-foaming agent has made it impossible for me to get anything to happen except for the oil to just foam and form soap. Is the old way of making bio now at and end? I know you can put it under 25 p.s.i. of pressure and it will break, but is there and easier way to break it. I can not believe the poison that is being put into our food chain with this tbhq as an additive in veggie cooking oil. Thanks I said it couldn't be due to the TBHQ (Tertiary Butyl Hydroquinone, an anti-oxidant) and the anti-foaming agent (silicone, dimethylpolysiloxane), they've been very common additives in vegetable oils for much longer than the last year or two. The question of their effect on the biodiesel process first came up at least seven years ago, and the answer is that they have zero effect. Many people (including us) use oils with these additives without any difficulties. His reply: Any clear oil mainly the brand name Harvest oil which is clear soy oil, will not drop any glycerin at all. When you add methanol and your lye to the oil in the processor it just boils and a thick plastic like scum comes to the top in about 1 minute. I have ran the lye from 1/2 gram to 6 grams per quart of oil. At around 2 grams per quart I get clear oil, but no glycerin or anything settles out. Is this Normal? I have taked with home brewers from Alabama to Oklahome to Arizona and we are all having the same problem. I can put it under 25 p.s.i. of pressure and the process of transesterification works like it should. I thought it was something that the cafe owners were doing during the cleaning process, I can not get it to make bio out of the plastic jug when it is new oil and never been used. The only reason I e-mailed you was I do not see anything on your web site addressing this and in the south, this problem has only began the last 2 years. Now most all wvo suppliers have gone to harvest oil, soy and it is clear oil. I have just been throwing it away and have access to a lot of it but cannot get it to process in the processor. Not sure what he means by clear oil. (And grams per quart??) Anyway, does anyone know about this? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER
Andres, Is this a test wash from a 1 L test batch? That is the place to start. Tom - Original Message - From: andres alejandro portilla [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 1:31 AM Subject: [Biofuel] HELP TO NEW BIODIESEL HOMEBREWER Hello,,Could somebody tell me if 0.276 inches of soap is normal after first washing of biodiesel, please? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080924/03342dd5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year old lawof physics
This explains how trees can raise water to their tops beyond the 32 feet limit said an ecstatic Mr Fletcher. He believes that the discovery also suggests a mechanism by which all life on earth has evolved from the ground. The generally accepted theory explaining the movement of water in plants is The Cohesion-Tension Theory. The movement of water to heights of 20 meters to the tops of oak trees and even 125 meters to the tops of tall redwoods is a solar powered event. Water is a polar molecule. The positively charged hydrogens of one water molecule are attracted to the negatively charged oxygen of neighboring water molecules. The cohesion resulting from these attractions is so great that the tensile strength in a thin column of water can be as much as 140Kg per square cm. (2000Lbs per square inch). This means that a negative pressure of 140Kg per square cm is required to pull the column apart. Water loss (transpiration) powers water movement through plants. As water evaporates from a leaf, water from tracheids and vessels moves into the leaf. They, in turn are linked to others, forming a long, continuous stream of water reaching all the way down into the root hairs, and even into the surrounding soil. Increase transpiration --- increase water uptake and the rate of water movement in plants. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year old lawof physics Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year old law of physics _http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/EUREKA.gif_ (http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/EUREKA.gif) A Revolutionary breakthrough claimed by a Paignton man is to be investigated by top scientists. Ideas man Andrew K Fletcher claims he has disproved a fundamental law of physics dating back to the 17th century. And impressed by the historic experiment at Overgang cliff, Brixham, to raise water 78 feet without the support of any artificial aids, John Hunt, Senior forestry Officer for Devon and Somerset who witnessed the experiment's success last Friday said: 'It was quite impressive. The rule that water will only rise 32 feet under atmospheric pressure when in a column was effectively disproved. But Mr Hunt explained that he is a professional forester not a scientist and a report on the experiment would be sent to the Forestry commission 's Alice Holt Research Station, near Farnham in Surrey, for further investigation. Mr Fletcher's experiment involves a long water filled plastic tube, strung up the cliffside with both open ends placed in two filled demijohns. A small amount of a salt solution is added at the top of the tube before it is completely filled with water, this acts as a liquid pulley says Mr Fletcher, lifting water from one demijohn to the other, thereby disproving Torriceli's 17th century law. This explains how trees can raise water to their tops beyond the 32 feet limit. said an ecstatic Mr Fletcher. He believes that the discovery also suggests a mechanism by which all life on earth has evolved from the ground. The Experiment at Brixham Overgang Cliffs where water flowed vertical up a single 6 mm bore tubing using 10 mils of salt solution, demonstrating that a tiny amount of denser solution can lift effortlessly many thousands of times it ’s own volume in water without any artificial aids, demonstrating clearly a non living physical cause of bulk flow in plants trees, animals and humans. The 10 metre limit for lifting water clearly needs some serious revision. View The Historic Event on Youtube as it unfolded all those years ago and ask why has this important discovery been ignored for so long. VIDEO _http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786493/water_flowing_up_a_cliff_to_24_metres_wi th_no_pump_experimen/#_ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/786493/water_flowing_up_a_cliff_to_24_metres_with_no_pump_experimen/#) Online experiment details: _http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeTalk/3Spring2003/Gravity/gravity1.htm_ (http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeTalk/3Spring2003/Gravity/gravity1.htm) _http://www.myspace.com/inclined_bed_therapy_ (http://www.myspace.com/inclined_bed_therapy) Andrew K Fletcher Online Theory with Gif animation: _http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeTalk/3Spring2003/Gravity/gravity1.htm_ (http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeTalk/3Spring2003/Gravity/gravity1.htm) Medical Physics Newsletter publications: _http://groups.iop.org/ME/archive_newsletter2002010.htm_ (http://groups.iop.org/ME/archive_newsletter2002010.htm) _http://groups.iop.org/ME/archive_newsletter2003014.htm_ (http://groups.iop.org/ME/archive_newsletter2003014.htm) The work Of Professor H.T.Hammel: EVERYTHING YOU WERE TAUGHT ABOUT
Re: [Biofuel] Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year oldlawof physics
Kirk, You wrote: capillary transport is not pumped by atmospheric pressure. I dont understand why this is a new discovery. I don't know if your comments are directed at my explanation of the Tension-Cohesion Theory or the recent work of Mr Fletcher (original post). Capillary action contributes very little to the movement of water in plants. The significance of the experiment: At sea level, atmospheric pressure is only enough to raise water (against no resistance) approximately 10 meters. In his experiment Mr Fletcher was purportedly able to raise water 78 feet without the support of any artificial aids, My reply (explanation of the Tension-Cohesion Theory) was in response to what I believe to be an erroneous extention of the results. This explains how trees can raise water to their tops beyond the 32 feet limit said an ecstatic Mr Fletcher. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year oldlawof physics capillary transport is not pumped by atmospheric pressure. I dont understand why this is a new discovery. Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This explains how trees can raise water to their tops beyond the 32 feet limit said an ecstatic Mr Fletcher. He believes that the discovery also suggests a mechanism by which all life on earth has evolved from the ground. The generally accepted theory explaining the movement of water in plants is The Cohesion-Tension Theory. The movement of water to heights of 20 meters to the tops of oak trees and even 125 meters to the tops of tall redwoods is a solar powered event. Water is a polar molecule. The positively charged hydrogens of one water molecule are attracted to the negatively charged oxygen of neighboring water molecules. The cohesion resulting from these attractions is so great that the tensile strength in a thin column of water can be as much as 140Kg per square cm. (2000Lbs per square inch). This means that a negative pressure of 140Kg per square cm is required to pull the column apart. Water loss (transpiration) powers water movement through plants. As water evaporates from a leaf, water from tracheids and vessels moves into the leaf. They, in turn are linked to others, forming a long, continuous stream of water reaching all the way down into the root hairs, and even into the surrounding soil. Increase transpiration --- increase water uptake and the rate of water movement in plants. Tom - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year old lawof physics Eureka! Cliff experiment pulls plug on 300 year old law of physics _http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/EUREKA.gif_ (http://www3.sympatico.ca/slavek.krepelka/exper/EUREKA.gif) A Revolutionary breakthrough claimed by a Paignton man is to be investigated by top scientists. Ideas man Andrew K Fletcher claims he has disproved a fundamental law of physics dating back to the 17th century. And impressed by the historic experiment at Overgang cliff, Brixham, to raise water 78 feet without the support of any artificial aids, John Hunt, Senior forestry Officer for Devon and Somerset who witnessed the experiment's success last Friday said: 'It was quite impressive. The rule that water will only rise 32 feet under atmospheric pressure when in a column was effectively disproved. But Mr Hunt explained that he is a professional forester not a scientist and a report on the experiment would be sent to the Forestry commission 's Alice Holt Research Station, near Farnham in Surrey, for further investigation. Mr Fletcher's experiment involves a long water filled plastic tube, strung up the cliffside with both open ends placed in two filled demijohns. A small amount of a salt solution is added at the top of the tube before it is completely filled with water, this acts as a liquid pulley says Mr Fletcher, lifting water from one demijohn to the other, thereby disproving Torriceli's 17th century law. This explains how trees can raise water to their tops beyond the 32 feet limit. said an ecstatic Mr Fletcher. He believes that the discovery also suggests a mechanism by which all life on earth has evolved from the ground. The Experiment at Brixham Overgang Cliffs where water flowed vertical up a single 6 mm bore tubing using 10 mils of salt solution, demonstrating that a tiny amount of denser solution can lift effortlessly many thousands of times it â?Ts own volume in water without any artificial aids, demonstrating clearly a non living physical cause of bulk flow in plants trees, animals and humans. The 10 metre limit for lifting water clearly needs some serious revision. View
Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
Ove, Your titration procedure: 1. Heating and swirling 1 ml palm oil (measured with a 1 ml syringe), 10 ml isopropyl alcohol (10 ml syringe) and 2 drops of 1 % phenolphthalein in a shot glass in hot water bath. 2. Adding the titration solution (0,1% NaOH/distilled water) drop by drop with a 5 ml syringe - while stirring - until the solution turned pink, and stayed pink for 10-15 seconds. - Results: 1,5 and 1,6. It should (as I said) have been 2,65. This is what I have. Not much to take hold of, is it? Everything looks fine. Since successful titration is not based on luck or magic, I still suspect that there is a very simple answer to the problem. About a year ago I got a phone call from a friend I had helped get started making BD. After dozens of successful batches, he had begun to get emulsions and failed quality tests. We went over every detail on the phone then repeated each step he had taken. Unable to resolve the problem, I simply drove over to his house and we discovered a very simple error he was making in titration. Unfortunately I can't drive over to your place, so please bear with me. Why would you consistently get low titration results? Everything you are doing appears to be correct. Your chemicals seem to be high quality Your measurements look to be right on Your persistence is admirable A thought keeps coming to mind regarding the procedure you follow. Something to consider: WVO will remain dissolved in warm isopropyl alcohol After adding titration solution (99.9% water) the WVO tends to fall out. When I titrate, I am determined to keep the WVO dissolved as titration solution is added - FINISH QUICKLY; my titration solution flows from the syringe; not drop-by- drop - keep the mix warm - swirl the mix as constantly as possible -As the purple color begins to appear I slow the rate at which I add titration solution. I can't help but think that some of the WVO is falling out of solution while you are adding the titration solution drop-by-drop --- artificially low titration results. stayed pink for 10-15 seconds. - Results: 1,5 and 1,6. It should (as I said) have been 2,65. Experiment: If you still have some of the WVO that was successfully converted using 2.65g KOH/L of WVO (rather than the 1.5g and 1.6g KOH that you got from titration) try the following: - Re-titrate it: 10ml Isopropyl alc, 2 drops phenolph, 1ml of the WVO - Heat and swirl (do you have a small, plastic water/juice/sports drink bottle rather than using a shot glass and spoon?) - Have your 5ml (titration solution) syringe filled to 1.6ml and ready to go. Instead of adding drop-by-drop, squirt in the 1.6ml. titration solution into the warm, clear WVO, phenolph, alcohol solution. Does the mix turn purple and stay purple upon swirling? Tom - Original Message - From: Ove Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 6:28 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Thanks, Tom - also for your generous offer to mail me some phenolphthalein. - But as you say: The phenolphthalein seems good. It is also possible to acquire phenolphthalein powder in Oslo. - As for the solvent: The first phenolphthalein I had, was dissolved in isopropyl alcohol. Question for you: Prior to adding titration solution, is the WVO dissolved in the mix of isopropanol and phenolphthalein? - Is the mix warm and clear? - Kept warm and swirled throughout the titration process? Yes, the WVO is dissolved in the mix of (99,9%) isopropyl alcohol and phenolphthalein, and it is warm and clear and kept swirled throughout the prosess. - Does it matter that I use a metal tea spoon to swirl with? I've been distracted a bit. I don't recall if you ever posted, step-by-step, the procedure and results of a titration. - Not of any special titration. - So I've made two new titrations today - with a palm oil with which I've had successful test batches (passed Wash Test and Methanol Test), using 6,15 g NaOH. It should, in other words, titrate 2,65. This is how I did it: 1. Heating and swirling 1 ml palm oil (measured with a 1 ml syringe), 10 ml isopropyl alcohol (10 ml syringe) and 2 drops of 1 % phenolphthalein in a shot glass in hot water bath. 2. Adding the titration solution (0,1% NaOH/distilled water) drop by drop with a 5 ml syringe - while stirring - until the solution turned pink, and stayed pink for 10-15 seconds. - Results: 1,5 and 1,6. It should (as I said) have been 2,65. This is what I have. Not much to take hold of, is it? Ove - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June
Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
Ove,
The phenolphthalein seems good pH at color change = 8.5
The phenolphthalein that I bought at the lab, was solved in isopropyl
alcohol, because they didn't have ethanol.
I dissolve my phenolphthalein in isopropyl alc. as well. It works fine.
Could the isopropyl alcohol and the methanol be the cause of three months
of titration
misery?
I doubt it.
Although I've never used phenolphthalein dissolved in methanol, I don't
think it would make a difference.
Titration: 10ml of 95% isopropanol : 2 drops of phenolphthalein
We use warm isopropanol to dissolve the WVO because oils dissolve in it
better than they do in either ethanol or methanol. We use phenolphthalein as
the indicator because it not only changes color at the appropriate pH, but
because it is soluble in alcohol(s). Both ethanol and methanol dissolve in
isopropanol. It shouldn't matter which alcohol is in the 2 drops of
phenolphthalein that we add.
Question for you:
Prior to adding titration solution, is the WVO dissolved in the mix of
isopropanol and phenolphthalein?
- Is the mix warm and clear?
- Kept warm and swirled throughout the titration process?
If the WVO is allowed to settle out you will get inaccurate (too low)
results.
We seem to have eliminated the possibility that the chemicals are at
fault. (You do use 95% isopropyl alc, not 70%?) Your measurements seem to be
accurate. I can't help but think that there is a very basic flaw in the
procedure.
I've been distracted a bit. I don't recall if you ever posted,
step-by-step, the procedure and results of a titration.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Ove Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
To make a long story short, Tom -
{I've been doing a lot of (more or less systematic) tests since Friday -
among other the one you recommended: ***Try adding 2 drops of
phenolphthalein to 10ml of distilled water. Add titration solution
drop-by-drop until it turns pink/purple. Check mix with pH paper. It should
be about 8***. - The pH paper showed 5-6. - I even have visited the
laboratory where I bought the phenolphthalein, having them measure the above
mentioned purple red solution with their pH meter. Result: 8,5! - But their
pH paper - like mine - indicated 5 or 6!}
- The short story is, that 5 minutes ago I re-read the chapter
'Phenolfthalein' at JtF - where it says that the phenolphthalein is to be
solved in ethanol. The phenolphthalein that I bought at the lab, was solved
in isopropyl alcohol, because they didn't have ethanol. It shouldn't make
any difference, they said. Later, when I encountered all the titration
difficulties, I thought that the isopropanol perhaps might be the sinner.
That's why I changed the phenolphthalein, as I wrote. However - in my mind
ethanol had become methanol. In other words, I got a new solution at the
lab: 1 gram phenolphthalein / 100 ml methanol!
So before I tell you about my week end tests, I must ask you: Could the
isopropyl alcohol and the methanol be the cause of three months of titration
misery?
Hopeful regards,
Ove
- Original Message -
From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
Ove,
Sincere thanks, Tom -
You are most welcome.
Let's see if we can straighten out the difficulties with titration.
Each ml of 0.1% titration solution contains .001 g of NaOH.
Each ml of titration solution used on a ml of veg oil corresponds to a
gram of the same caustic per Liter of the same veg oil.
This all works fine if:
Your isopropyl alcohol is neutral.
Today I've been testing the isopropyl alcohol the way you told me: 10
ml
isopropyl alcohol + 2 drops of phenolphthalein - then adding freshly made
titration solution drop by drop. What happens, is: The solution turns
barely
purple on the first drop - but it doesn't stay purple. On drop no 7 it
turns
deeper purple, and stays purple for some time. - What does this tell?
Your isopropyl alcohol is a bit acidic. Some of your titration solution
is being used to neutralize the isopropyl alcohol. This should produce
higher titration values.
But: (From a previous post dated 6/1/08)
The first successful batch with used oil contained 2,5 grammes extra of
NaOH, but the titration indicated only 0,6 grammes.
Titration always gave too low values.
Further: (Same 6/1/08 post)
When I used a pH-paper on an oil-isopropyl alcohol solution that had
turned pink, it showed 5 or 6!
Phenolphthalein should not turn pink until a pH of about 8.2
It is essential that you have good phenolphthalein solution.
This could be the problem as a color change at 5 or 6
Re: [Biofuel] Bad Week?
Roger, I made two batches lately and both raise questions. The first... I tried stir-washing for the first time. The water separated out, slightly cloudy but I'm left with a thin butterscotch looking biodiesel. It's been settling for a few days, even added heat up to 165°F. No change. Any thoughts? I stir-wash my BD. It is not unusual for the first wash to retain some of the water. I've never tried to heat it after the first wash. I do use warm water for my washes. Successive washes should yield cleaner product. Some things to note: I make two grades of BD -car fuel quality: passes quality test -home heating fuel quality: slight residue on quality test (incomplete reaction) I am more likely to get slower separation of water and butterscotch BD on the first wash with BD that fails the quality test. You mentioned that you can take samples during processing. I suggest that you make it a habit to sample the fuel prior to turning off the processor/pumping to settling tank. Allow the sample to settle for 10 - 15 minutes. Do a quality test, (not a wash test). See JtF regarding (Jan W.) Quality Test. If the BD passes the Q.T. the reaction is finished, if not, you might continue running the reactor or even adding a small amount of methoxide and continuing the reaction. Since The water separated out , I think successive washes with warm water, if possible, will produce a clean product. It may turn out to fail the quality test however. Good Luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:47 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bad Week? I made two batches lately and both raise questions. The first... I tried stir-washing for the first time. The water separated out, slightly cloudy but I'm left with a thin butterscotch looking biodiesel. It's been settling for a few days, even added heat up to 165°F. No change. Any thoughts? The second... I made a batch from a new oil source. I made a 1L test batch with a titration of 5.6. Higher than what I used to but the test batch came out good. I duplicated it on a 55gal batch; I mixed for 1 hour and held at 137°F for the process. Now I have some concoction that has a watery-looking dark brown layer on top and a light brown on the bottom. No glyercine separated. When I mix with the pump on the reactor, the two layers don't want to mix together. It looks like milk and alcohol. I did a wash test, mixing the tank while pulling a sample. It looks water-soluble - no separation, no defined layers, just a consistent mixture. Any thoughts here? It's not soap...so what is it? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
Ove, Sincere thanks, Tom - You are most welcome. Let's see if we can straighten out the difficulties with titration. Each ml of 0.1% titration solution contains .001 g of NaOH. Each ml of titration solution used on a ml of veg oil corresponds to a gram of the same caustic per Liter of the same veg oil. This all works fine if: Your isopropyl alcohol is neutral. Today I've been testing the isopropyl alcohol the way you told me: 10 ml isopropyl alcohol + 2 drops of phenolphthalein - then adding freshly made titration solution drop by drop. What happens, is: The solution turns barely purple on the first drop - but it doesn't stay purple. On drop no 7 it turns deeper purple, and stays purple for some time. - What does this tell? Your isopropyl alcohol is a bit acidic. Some of your titration solution is being used to neutralize the isopropyl alcohol. This should produce higher titration values. But: (From a previous post dated 6/1/08) The first successful batch with used oil contained 2,5 grammes extra of NaOH, but the titration indicated only 0,6 grammes. Titration always gave too low values. Further: (Same 6/1/08 post) When I used a pH-paper on an oil-isopropyl alcohol solution that had turned pink, it showed 5 or 6! Phenolphthalein should not turn pink until a pH of about 8.2 It is essential that you have good phenolphthalein solution. This could be the problem as a color change at 5 or 6 would result in the low titration values you have gotten. (More titration solution would have been required to achieve the pH of 8.2 we are striving for.) ***Try adding 2 drops of phenolphthalein to 10ml of distilled water. Add titration solution drop-by-drop until it turns pink/purple. Check mix with pH paper. It should be about 8. I have tried to change the phenolphthalein - without luck. Do you mean you were unable to get a fresh supply of phenolphthalein? If you are unable to acquire reliable phenolphthalein I would be happy to mail you some phenolphthalein (powder or solution) so long as it is legal to do so. Best to You, Tom - Original Message - From: Ove Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 7:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Sincere thanks, Tom - for your extensive assistance. - Your questions: 1. Yes, I have succeeded with test batches using new, unused oil - not on a basis of titration (which, as I said, gives me trouble), but on a series of test batches on the same principle as Poor man's titation - circling in the correct amount of lye. 2. Yes, I have done both Jan Warnqvist test and Wash Test. I also have succeeded with test batches of WVO. They have passed both the Wash Test and the Methanol Test. - I've been following the same procedure as with new oil - with a number of batches with different amount of lye. - It works, but it takes a lot of time. - Titration: I'm using the recipe of JtF: 1 ml of oil, 10 ml of isopropyl, 2 drops of phenolphthalein - but I'm having the same incomprehensible results. Is this after you made fresh titration solution? (1 g NaOH per Liter of distilled water) Is your balance accurate to tenths of a gram? Some digital scales are only accurate to whole grams. I'm concerned that your titration solution may be the problem. - Yes, this is with fresh titration solution (5 grammes NaOH in 500 ml distilled water - diluted further 1:9). - I use a 0,01 g electronic balance. Today I've been testing the isopropyl alcohol the way you told me: 10 ml isopropyl alcohol + 2 drops of phenolphtalein - then adding freshly made titration solution drop by drop. What happens, is: The solution turns barely purple on the first drop - but it doesn't stay purple. On drop no 7 it turns deeper purple, and stays purple for some time. - What does this tell? - My failed Wash Tests: I have had both variants - too much soap between the water and BD layer, - and: Emulsion forms, and the separation fails to happen within 30 minutes. Do these Wash Test results tell whether there has been too much or too little lye - or methanol - in the reaction? - Settling time: I always use more than 8 hours, normally12 hours or more. I syphon the BD from the glycerine mix - very carefully. Conclusion so far: My main problem is the tiration. Solving that mystery woud be a breakthrough. With kind regards from a summery Oslo - my WVO melting in the sun - Ove - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Ove, Sorry I'm a bit slow to respond. I'm juggling a number of projects at the moment
Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
emulsions *** A real problem arises if you have an incomplete reaction + fail to allow enough settling time (or fail to prevent glycerine from contaminating the BD to be washed). Soaps, glycerine + incomplete reaction -- serious emulsions. How long do you allow the mix to settle? I suggest 8 hours (or more). Do you have an effective way of separating the BD from the settled glycerine mix? Finally: Why is there a high content of water in WWO with a high content of FFA? Hydrogen ions dissociate from the acid portion of FFAs when they are exposed to water. This results in a region of charge on the FFAs. Molecules with regions of charge associate better with water than do molecules that don't have such regions of charge. Implication: - Veg oil at the bottom of a storage tank may have a significantly higher titration (FFAs) than oil at the top. Water and associated FFAs have settled over time. And why is it difficult to get rid of the water? - Is there any other method than boiling it off? In an attempt to use the sludge veg oil from the bottom of my storage tanks I've been experimenting with a method of reducing water from veg oil, and at the same time reducing FFAs in the oil. After we get you settled in making good BD, we can discuss what's involved. The WVO you are using is good enough. It doesn't need any treatment other than letting it settle in the sun. I have some thoughts about your other post, but the answeres depend on whether or not you have done test batches with new, unused veg oil. Best Wishes, Tom - Original Message - From: Ove Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Tom, I had bad luck with this letter: I sent it after only two lines. Here is the rest of it: I have followed your 3 point list: fresh 0,1% solution, I've tested the isopropyl alcohol: pH = 6, and I'm using the recipe of JtF: 1 ml of oil, 10 ml of isopropyl, 2 drops of phenolphtalein - but I'm having the same incomprehensible results. - I'll try to find a chemist who can tell me what I am doing wrong. - May I ask you a couple of other questions? The leader of the laboratory of BVEnergi in Norway, Paul Winson (- a factory that prodused biodiesel from new rapeseed oil until 6 weeks ago, when they went bankrupt because USA is dumping the prices on biodiesel in Europe), recommended me to make as much turbulence as possible during the first 20 minutes of a reaction - as crazy as possible - to break up the molecules. After 20 minutes it was OK to reduce the agitation, he said. - Would you agree in that? Isn't it, in case, also logic to do it this way in (at least) the second stage of the foolproof method (which I haven't practiced)? - Or is this method based upon exactly this (less efficient?) type of turbulence? About settling, - Mike Pelly says: An alternative method is to allow the reactants to sit for at least an hour after mixing while keeping the brew above 100 deg F (38 deg C), which keeps the glycerine semi-liquid (it solidifies below 100 deg F). Then carefully decant the biodiesel. - I suppose this means that a wash test can be performed immediately afterwards? - And that the prosessing time can be shortened down this way also for the two-stage method? I have tried to find information in the mail archive about the visible result in the wast test of too little and too much lye. To me it seems as if there is no obvious distinction. In both cases there is something like skimmed milk + café au lait - and I can't tell wether the reason is too little or too much lye. - Am I right, or is it possible to make a more or less precise diagnosis? Finally: Why is there a high content of water in WWO with a high content of FFA? And why is it difficult to get rid of the water? - Is there any other method than boiling it off? Best regards, Ove - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Ove, You wrote I've had serious titration difficulties. .. Titration always gave too low values. I have a couple of suggestions: 1. Prepare fresh titration solution using careful, accurate measurements. If titration solution is not 0.1% NaOH, you will get inaccurate results. 1 gram NaOH per Liter of distilled water 0.1% NaOH titration solution. 2. Test you isopropyl alcohol. Unlikely, but it could be alkaline --- inaccurate titration. 3. Next time you titrate, post the numbers: ml of oil, ml of isopropyl, drops of phenolphthalein, ml of (new) titration solution needed to change color to purple. Good Luck
Re: [Biofuel] Algae In Storage Tank?
Roger, It is often referred to as algae . algae, being photosynthetic should require light. I believe the microbe(s) is/are bacteria. I recently returned from Florida, US . ~1100 miles . with a 1985 300CD for my wife. The car hadn't been driven much, and I ran into fuel filter problems. We eventually pulled the tank and found sheets of black stuff. Diesel mechanics said I had an algae problem. They added some diesel fuel and some treatment after pressure washing the tank. This occurred while running on petro diesel. The microbes can grow on BD. It seems to be more of a problem if water is present. I have washed/dried BD in my 275 gal oil tank for my heating system for about 6 months each of the last few years w/o any problem. Biocides are available for treating diesel fuel to prevent the growth of little beasties. I avoid it myself. It is best not to store BD, especially if derived from soy oil, for more than 3, 4 (6?) months; polymerization. Then again, I have a sample of BD from early test batches that is about 4 years old. It appears to be fine. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:06 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Algae In Storage Tank? I've been warned of this but haven't seen any thing yet. I keep my finished biodiesel in a 275-Gal Oil Tank. Someone my dad was talking to said they had problems with algae growing in their tank. Just wondering if any one else has encountered this and if there is something I can do to prevent it. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist
Ove, You wrote I've had serious titration difficulties. .. Titration always gave too low values. I have a couple of suggestions: 1. Prepare fresh titration solution using careful, accurate measurements. If titration solution is not 0.1% NaOH, you will get inaccurate results. 1 gram NaOH per Liter of distilled water 0.1% NaOH titration solution. 2. Test you isopropyl alcohol. Unlikely, but it could be alkaline --- inaccurate titration. 3. Next time you titrate, post the numbers: ml of oil, ml of isopropyl, drops of phenolphthalein, ml of (new) titration solution needed to change color to purple. Good Luck, Tom - Original Message - From: Ove Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Thanks, Tom - Your answer was, perhaps, as I had feared: FFA's in the biodiesel. - I've been on the point of chosing his method, because I've had serious titration difficulties. After about 40 test batches I finally succeeded in making biodiesel that passed the wash test - not because of the titration, but in spite of it: The first successful batch with used oil contained 2,5 grammes extra of NaOH, but the titration indicated only 0,6 grammes. When I used a pH-paper on an oil-isopropyl alcohol solution that had turned pink, it showed 5 or 6! I have tried to change the phenolphthalein - without luck. What am I doing wrong? - My answer to the problems has been a series of test batches. I've also tried Poor man's titration, but the amount of glycerin cocktail has varied so little that I haven't dared trusting the results. And I made a strange experience: The first batch that passed the wash test (0,5 litre sunflower oil, 6,0 grammes pr. litre of NaOH), contained 70 ml glycerin cocktail, while batches that didn't pass the test - with respectively 5,75 grammes - 6,25 gr. - 6,50 gr. - 7,0 gr. - 7,5 gr. and 8,0 grammes of NaOH, contained 70 - 77,5 - 95 - 85 and 91 ml of glycerin! Very confusing to a newbie. - Any explanation? Anyhow - I have to learn titration - . I've sent your e-mail to the man with the 'foolproof ' recipe. I think he'll come up with an answer. - He was incautious with a 200 litre batch some time ago - water in the oil - and is out of biodiesel at the moment, but he'll make more in the course of a month or so, he says - and make a wash test and a methanol test. I'll let you know the results. - Thanks again, Tom. Ove - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Ove, Just a thought regarding the use of acid in, or prior to, the first wash. There is a danger of splitting the soaps produced during processing into Free Fatty Acids (FFAs) and a water soluble salt. While this will effectively remove soaps and hence make washing easier, the FFAs produced will remain with the biodiesel. This is not a problem if your intent is to make biodiesel to be burned in an oil-fired boiler/furnace/water heater, but, I've been told, not so good on automobile engines. If he uses NaOH as his caustic and hydrochloric acid (HCl) in the wash, the water soluble salt will be sodium chloride (NaCl = table salt). Sulfuric acid (H2SO4) will yield sodium sulfate. Having a degree in chemistry, he should be no stranger to titration. It would allow him to determine the correct amount of caustic for each batch. The one size fits all concept no titration, 7 grammes of NaOH regardless of type of oil, strikes me as sloppy chemistry and wasteful. Adding acid to the wash strikes me as a way (possibly) of dealing with a problem that could have been avoided in the first place. The thought that comes to mind is that he is developing a proceedure that anyone can follow. No need to understand the process, just follow the recipe. Biodiesel the easy way vs. JtF and the biofuel list: biodiesel the right way. I could be wrong. I'm just a small-time homebrewer w/o any degrees in chemistry. I would be interested in the results of a quality test of his finished product, as described at JtF. If soaps are being split by the acid, the FFAs produced will be in the BD. FFAs are not very soluble in methanol residue in quality test. Tom - Original Message - From: Ove Steen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:50 AM Subject: [Biofuel] A Norwegian alchemist Hi all, I have an aquaintance. He is making biodiesel this way: no titration, 7 grammes of NaOH regardless of type of oil, 20% methanol, 12 hours processing time, 40 degrees Celsius. Having disposed of the glycerol
Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever?
Al, I spent a few hours monkeying around with this stuff. I succeeded in making soap. A couple of years ago I split the glyc. mix methanol recovery. I blended the FFAs that split out with BD to fuel my oil-fired heating system. I can't help but think that somebody dumped FFAs into the dumpster. A sample from the top titrated 19; deeper titrated 24!!! The FFAs split from the glyc mix titrate 33. Maybe they split the glyc in order to recover the methanol, and had no use for the FFAs. The good news: This stuff burns nicely in a friend's waste oil heater. A 100+ gal will help heat his shop next winter. Thanks for the good advice, Tom - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever? My thoughts as well ... after sleeping on it. I have a cubie (4.5gal/17.7L) of the WVO. As time permits I'll do some test batches using A/B two step. As the price of veg oil increases, some restaurants are changing less frequently. It might be a good idea for me to become better acquainted with processing bad oil. If I can convert this stuff I can probably deal with just about anything. Since you are an experienced A/B two stepper, I'd like your thoughts on the following: I have had great success composting glycerin after it has been split from the mix. Unsplit glycerin composts, but does not seem to do as well as split glyc. I suspect the presence of soaps is the reason. A/B two step not only increases yield, but should reduce the amount of soap produced . Yes? - once neutralized, the glyc from A/B two step more closely resembles the split glyc. Best to You, Tom Hi Tom, All I do with my glycerine is mix it with sawdust and burn it. Indeed, I get less glycerine from using the 2-step method, but beyond that, I don't monkey with it... Not to appear terse, (I can't remember the exact science) but as memory serves, the 2-step allows more oil to be made into bio-fuel, hence, less glycerine... I'd ask you to have a peek at the JTF site, again, not to appear terse - I'll be revisiting too, to refresh my memory. (D'oh!) Single step is well-suited to gently used oil, but hard-used oil demands 2-step, unless you'd like a 30% (or so)return of oil and 70% glyc... If there's Magnesol in it - run for your life!! It's a BDr's nightmare!! Regards, Al Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever?
Thanks Al, Best advice I'd offer is pass on this on please unless you've got plenty of time, patience, resources, and methods of dealing with the consequences... and they aren't pleasant... My thoughts as well ... after sleeping on it. I have a cubie (4.5gal/17.7L) of the WVO. As time permits I'll do some test batches using A/B two step. As the price of veg oil increases, some restaurants are changing less frequently. It might be a good idea for me to become better acquainted with processing bad oil. If I can convert this stuff I can probably deal with just about anything. Since you are an experienced A/B two stepper, I'd like your thoughts on the following: I have had great success composting glycerin after it has been split from the mix. Unsplit glycerin composts, but does not seem to do as well as split glyc. I suspect the presence of soaps is the reason. A/B two step not only increases yield, but should reduce the amount of soap produced . Yes? - once neutralized, the glyc from A/B two step more closely resembles the split glyc. Best to You, Tom - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever? Al, BTW, I have other suppliers with very dark oil and their stuff titrates and processes as it should... Me too. Looks can be deceiving, huh? Tom Tom, Looks can sure be that... that Magnesol (if that's what is going on) is an absolute nightmare to deal with... I have been doing the A/B two step for a long time now, and it works much better than I could ever imagine a single stage process doing (further on in this thread). However, the results are still all over the map - if I use the methoxide mix titration calls for, *usually* it's instantly more soap than fuel, so cutting back on the methoxide helps, but even at that, the variance between batches from the same supplier won't allow me to use experience to tweak it to the right place. Incremental changes up or down even slightly seem somehow to be magnified... Best advice I'd offer is pass on this on please unless you've got plenty of time, patience, resources, and methods of dealing with the consequences... and they aren't pleasant... Al Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Test Batch on Worst WVO ever
I ran a 0.5L test batch using the single stage base method on WVO that titrated 19 g KOH/L. Results: - No split/no glycerine dropped out. - Wash test on the mix bubbly emulsion. - FFAs dissolve in methanol. This WVO does not dissolve completely. - FFAs that I split from the glyc mix titrate about 33.5g KOH/L. The WVO titrated 19. This suggests that there are at least some glycerides in the oil. Why didn't they convert to BD some glycerine drop out? Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080529/664db339/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever?
Hi All, I was offered a dumpster full of WVO. New owner of a diner inherited it from the previous owner. I tested a sample . clean, fairly light in color . titrated 19g KOH/L !!! (My previous high was 11 g KOH/L, but that oil was very dark.) The label on the dumpster says that the kitchen grease will be returned to the food chain as a component of animal feed. I would just as soon keep it out of the food chain and make 100+ gal of biodiesel. Will the two stage acid/base method handle such WVO as this? Am I looking for trouble pumping out, and getting stuck with, 100+ gal of burnt-out oil? The new owner is willing to give me his WVO which is nothing like what's in the dumpster. Advice appreciated, Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080528/5b167be5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever?
Al, BTW, I have other suppliers with very dark oil and their stuff titrates and processes as it should... Me too. Looks can be deceiving, huh? Tom - Original Message - From: A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever? I recently dumped a WVO supplier because their oil has become unmanageable - my best guess is that they are using Magnesol to filter it, and get more mileage out of it... The titration was all over the spectrum, and yes, for those of you that would ask, all was well with the titration chemicals, and process... Test batches done at titration levels varied in result, and again, I suspected I had a bad component somewhere, but even with many test batches, only changing one component at a time to control the outcome(s), it was never anywhere near what the titration said it should be... Titration results suddenly went up with the change of ownership... hmmm.. So, that's my best guess, and my exp. with that sort of thing... and BTW, I have other suppliers with very dark oil and their stuff titrates and processes as it should... good luck with that, Al FWIW, I don't eat there either... :-| Hi All, I was offered a dumpster full of WVO. New owner of a diner inherited it from the previous owner. I tested a sample . clean, fairly light in color . titrated 19g KOH/L !!! (My previous high was 11 g KOH/L, but that oil was very dark.) The label on the dumpster says that the kitchen grease will be returned to the food chain as a component of animal feed. I would just as soon keep it out of the food chain and make 100+ gal of biodiesel. Will the two stage acid/base method handle such WVO as this? Am I looking for trouble pumping out, and getting stuck with, 100+ gal of burnt-out oil? The new owner is willing to give me his WVO which is nothing like what's in the dumpster. Advice appreciated, Tom Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever?
Roger, I'd cut it with some better oil, .. It would take a hell of a lot of cutting . like 10:1. Hate to ruin good oil. I'm thinking about running a test batch using 2 step acid/base. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever? I'd cut it with some better oil, but I've never tried any that bad either. Thomas Kelly wrote: Hi All, I was offered a dumpster full of WVO. New owner of a diner inherited it from the previous owner. I tested a sample . clean, fairly light in color . titrated 19g KOH/L !!! (My previous high was 11 g KOH/L, but that oil was very dark.) The label on the dumpster says that the kitchen grease will be returned to the food chain as a component of animal feed. I would just as soon keep it out of the food chain and make 100+ gal of biodiesel. Will the two stage acid/base method handle such WVO as this? Am I looking for trouble pumping out, and getting stuck with, 100+ gal of burnt-out oil? The new owner is willing to give me his WVO which is nothing like what's in the dumpster. Advice appreciated, Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080528/5b167be5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever?
Mike, Try a liter batch in a blender and see what you get. Good luck with it. Mike Do you mean a liter batch using single stage base, or a liter batch using 2 stage acid/base? Tom - Original Message - From: Mike Pelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever? Try a liter batch in a blender and see what you get. Good luck with it. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:16 AM To: biofuel Subject: [Biofuel] Worst WVO Ever? Hi All, I was offered a dumpster full of WVO. New owner of a diner inherited it from the previous owner. I tested a sample . clean, fairly light in color . titrated 19g KOH/L !!! (My previous high was 11 g KOH/L, but that oil was very dark.) The label on the dumpster says that the kitchen grease will be returned to the food chain as a component of animal feed. I would just as soon keep it out of the food chain and make 100+ gal of biodiesel. Will the two stage acid/base method handle such WVO as this? Am I looking for trouble pumping out, and getting stuck with, 100+ gal of burnt-out oil? The new owner is willing to give me his WVO which is nothing like what's in the dumpster. Advice appreciated, Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080528/5b167be5/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3140 (20080528) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3142 (20080528) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO Sludge Disposal - Cross posted
Jason, Sorry for the delayed response, but I was in the midst of experimenting with my own sludge oil. I settle my WVO before pouring the clear dry portion into 55 gal storage drums. I use the oil from the top 3/4 of the drums for processing into BD. After three years I decided to empty the tanks one-by-one. I accumulated a total of almost 100gal (~380L) of thick, gooey sludge from the bottoms of 8 tanks. The sludge contained water and titrated significantly higher than the oil above it. I had experimented with treating WVO with the glycerin cocktail from BD production and decided to try it with the sludge oil. Treated with the glycerin mix, oil that had resembled butterscotch pudding at 60F (~15C), was liquid at the same temp. It had much less water and titrated lower (3.5 - 3.7ml of 0.1%KOH/L lowered to ~ 2.5). A test batch of the pudding oil incomplete reaction with much soap. I have successfully processed three batches of the treated sludge and am running the BD as summer fuel in my car and my wife's car. The BD clouds a bit at 55F (~12C), but flows fine. No trouble starting even on some cool mornings (~ 40F/~5C). The BD produced can be used as summer fuel for cars or as fuel for my heating system in the cold weather. The original post had been sent to a couple of veg oil groups, but I thought biodiesel homebrewers might benefit from knowing that they don't have to dispose of their bottom of the barrel veg oil. There was some discussion of treating WVO with the glyc. prod earlier in the year. Search archives Treating WVO with Glycerin. I'd be happy to go over the process I follow if anyone's interested. With recent discussions about problems acquiring WVO it might be good to be able to use what we previously would have disposed of (???) or turned down. Tom - Original Message - From: Jason Mier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:21 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO Sludge Disposal - Cross posted try this. its written in terms of glycerine, but i think junk grease and fryer slime would work as well. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#burn you could also make a huge pile of these logs and dump them a handful at a time into the compost, also, further down-page is a topic i particularly like; anaerobic digestion- making NatGas and a liquid fertilizer for your own personal use. this information is also in the JtF library: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/MethaneDigesters/MDToC.html#ToC although it has been suggested that you might want to compost the sludge product before using it as a fertilizer. Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:00:26 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] WVO Sludge Disposal - Cross posted What are you doing with your WVO sludge? I know this topics been discussed in the past but, it seems only to a limited degree. I have two needs - the first is long term - how am I going to handle the sludge from my regular use? I use WVO in my car and in my boiler. The second concern is more immediate...I have a fair amount of WVO sludge (probably around 100 gallons) and I need to find a eco-friendly solution for disposing of it. I think 100 gallons is more than my compost pile can handle. Furthermore, some of the oil that I had was less than ideal quality so the sludge really stinks. I also think that I could dispose of it one cubie at a time in my trash pickup but, that is not eco-friendly at all. One thing is certain - I have to be more selective about the restaurants that I get my oil from. Thanks in advance, Ken -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080514/dbe5eecd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Company is buying WVO
Hi Zeke, What is it being used for? Mostly additives to animal food (dog food, and probably factory chickens and cows), and allegedly soap and detergent (google yellow grease) I have read a bit about the fate of WVO from dumpsters . ingredient in animal food. I had the opportunity to talk to someone who worked in a lab that evaluated WVO. He said that WVO that meets standards can be used in food for human consumption here in the US. He said that WVO that was below standard might be exported, used to make a food product, and then exported back to the US for human consumption. He also said that the real bad stuff is used in pet food/animal feed. I don't know if the food for human consumption is fact or fiction, but I have avoided the products that he mentioned as containing WVO. I haven't noticed any dramatic increase in dog or cat food. Chicken feed and other grain-based animal food for livestock seems to reflect increases in grain prices. I don't think the switch from charging the restaurant for WVO pickup, to paying the restaurant for the WVO is due to its use in animal food. The increased cost of vegetable oil for cooking has caused some restaurants to change their oil less frequently. Others have switched to cheaper veg oil. Some fast food restaurants filter and re-use their oil. I was wondering if there is now a market for used veg. oil for cooking. Will it be used in more food for human consumption? Will restaurants resort to using veg oil that has been discarded from other restaurants? I have heard of a BD producer coming on line about a hundred or so miles from me. While BD is not available at the pump, home heating oil suppliers offer B20 now. Diesel fuel at $5/gal might be making BD production profitable even if the producer must pay for WVO collected from 100 or more miles away. I just came back from sunny Florida (US) where I picked up a nice 1985 Mercedes 300CD for my wife. Maybe I'll just match the price for veg oil, do conversions on our two diesels and run them on veg oil rather than BD. Heating the house may be a problem. Anybody know about outdoor wood-fired boilers? Best to All, Tom - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Company is buying WVO It means that the economy is starting to value stuff that used to be regarded as a waste product (a concept that does not exist in nature). It's good that the economy is coming more in line with reality. Though perhaps not for you in this case. What is it being used for? Mostly additives to animal food (dogfood, and probably factory chickens and cows), and alledgedly soap and detergent (google yellow grease) I know a few years ago, a few of us investigated buying filtered WVO from one of the companies that collects it commercially from restuarants. At that time, it was going to be $1/gal for filtered WVO, buying it 100 gallons at a time, I think. Diesel was around $2.40 or so. I don't know what else that company sold the filtered WVO for, but they were willing to sell it for use as fuel as well. Z On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, A restaurant that has been happily giving me their WVO for the past three years received a letter from the company that they used to pay used to pick up their WVO. The company is offering to pay them them $0.35/pound for their WVO 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubies of WVO going for more than $10! I found it hard to believe. I stopped at another restaurant and asked to have their WVO, hoping to maintain my steady oil flow, and was told that someone pays them $2/gal for their waste oil. Does anybody know what is happening here? Is the WVO being converted to BD? With diesel hovering around $5/gal and with subsidies (in US) for BD, is it profitable to pay $2/gal for WVO and then convert it into BD? Or Is it being filtered and re-sold as veg oil? I've been told that the veg oil restaurants bought last year at $15/cubie now cost $35 - $40/cubie. I have a bad feeling about this. Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080517/78ed9c2d/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment
Re: [Biofuel] Company is buying WVO
A friend of mine installs and services outdoor wood boilers for a dealer. He's been after me to buy one. several towns around here are trying to ban them because they tend to produce low level smoke when the air is still. There's some opposition to them around here too. Is it just a problem in developed areas (towns) or is the smoke somehow different from the smoke from my woodstove?My nearest neighbor is a quarter of a mile away and he's thinking of getting one too. Tom - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Company is buying WVO a neighbor wanted me too install theirs. the problem was it was a non pressurized system and vented. he had a 2 story house meaning the water pressure from the second floor required him to have a heat exchanger to operate with his heating system. Installation turned out to be a lot more expensive than they had planned. several towns around here are trying to ban them because they tend to produce low level smoke when the air is still. personally , if a neighbor complains about what i'm doing then they paid to much to live next to me -- Original message -- From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Zeke, What is it being used for? Mostly additives to animal food (dog food, and probably factory chickens and cows), and allegedly soap and detergent (google yellow grease) I have read a bit about the fate of WVO from dumpsters . ingredient in animal food. I had the opportunity to talk to someone who worked in a lab that evaluated WVO. He said that WVO that meets standards can be used in food for human consumption here in the US. He said that WVO that was below standard might be exported, used to make a food product, and then exported back to the US for human consumption. He also said that the real bad stuff is used in pet food/animal feed. I don't know if the food for human consumption is fact or fiction, but I have avoided the products that he mentioned as containing WVO. I haven't noticed any dramatic increase in dog or cat food. Chicken feed and other grain-based animal food for livestock seems to reflect increases in grain prices. I don't think the switch from charging the restaurant for WVO pickup, to paying the restaurant for the WVO is due to its use in animal food. The increased cost of vegetable oil for cooking has caused some restaurants to change their oil less frequently. Others have switched to cheaper veg oil. Some fast food restaurants filter and re-use their oil. I was wondering if there is now a market for used veg. oil for cooking. Will it be used in more food for human consumption? Will restaurants resort to using veg oil that has been discarded from other restaurants? I have heard of a BD producer coming on line about a hundred or so miles from me. While BD is not available at the pump, home heating oil suppliers offer B20 now. Diesel fuel at $5/gal might be making BD production profitable even if the producer must pay for WVO collected from 100 or more miles away. I just came back from sunny Florida (US) where I picked up a nice 1985 Mercedes 300CD for my wife. Maybe I'll just match the price for veg oil, do conversions on our two diesels and run them on veg oil rather than BD. Heating the house may be a problem. Anybody know about outdoor wood-fired boilers? Best to All, Tom - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Company is buying WVO It means that the economy is starting to value stuff that used to be regarded as a waste product (a concept that does not exist in nature). It's good that the economy is coming more in line with reality. Though perhaps not for you in this case. What is it being used for? Mostly additives to animal food (dogfood, and probably factory chickens and cows), and alledgedly soap and detergent (google yellow grease) I know a few years ago, a few of us investigated buying filtered WVO from one of the companies that collects it commercially from restuarants. At that time, it was going to be $1/gal for filtered WVO, buying it 100 gallons at a time, I think. Diesel was around $2.40 or so. I don't know what else that company sold the filtered WVO for, but they were willing to sell it for use as fuel as well. Z On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, A restaurant that has been happily giving me their WVO for the past three years received a letter from
[Biofuel] Company is buying WVO
Hello All, A restaurant that has been happily giving me their WVO for the past three years received a letter from the company that they used to pay used to pick up their WVO. The company is offering to pay them them $0.35/pound for their WVO 4.5 gal (17.7L) cubies of WVO going for more than $10! I found it hard to believe. I stopped at another restaurant and asked to have their WVO, hoping to maintain my steady oil flow, and was told that someone pays them $2/gal for their waste oil. Does anybody know what is happening here? Is the WVO being converted to BD? With diesel hovering around $5/gal and with subsidies (in US) for BD, is it profitable to pay $2/gal for WVO and then convert it into BD? Or Is it being filtered and re-sold as veg oil? I've been told that the veg oil restaurants bought last year at $15/cubie now cost $35 - $40/cubie. I have a bad feeling about this. Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080517/78ed9c2d/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
in my methanol or KOH
Subsequent wash tests often pass after the initial failure, albeit with
reduced yield. Presumably some of the fuel was emulsified and lost. I will
make my next batch using a different methanol supply to see if that improves
results.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008
07:56:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Jim, As I write this email, I'm running another test batch. the oil was
heated to 148F before putting it into a cold blender. When I started
processing, the mixture was 122F and 42 minutes later it is at 145F.
I'm processing 40 minutes instead of the 20 to 30 minutes recommended
on Journey-to-forever just because I'm trying to ensure a complete
reaction. Have you not gotten complete reactions on 1L test batches run
at 130F (or higher) in a blender for 20 - 30 minutes? You are using
new, unused veg oil? Tom - Original Message - From: James
Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org;
biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hey Mike.
I'm a novice too but, for what it's worth, in my first 10 test batches
in a blender I have gotten a pretty substantial temperature increase
during mixing - between 10F and 20F increase depending on how long I
mixed the batch (from 25 to 45 minutes) and whether it was my first,
2nd or 3rd batch of the evening (basically preheating the blender).
In my first couple of batches I tried to insulate the blender with a
towel because I was worried that the mixture would cool during
blending. After I saw such significant temperature gains, I took off the
towel. I believe that the temperature increase is due to friction of the
blades - I don't know if it is an exothermic reaction. As I
write this email, I'm running another test batch. the oil was heated
to 148F before putting it into a cold blender. When I started processing,
the mixture was 122F and 42 minutes later it is at 145F. I'm
processing 40 minutes instead of the 20 to 30 minutes recommended on
Journey-to-forever just because I'm trying to ensure a complete
reaction. Hope that's useful. Jim Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008
12:49:05 +0900 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgFrom:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test
batch question Methanol shouldn't vaporize until 148.46 deg F
assuming the atmospheric pressure in you area is 760mmHg. That's
the boiling point of methanol. It starts to evaporate at much lower
temperatures than that. Temperature maintenance is one of the
reasonswe recommend a mini-processor rather than a blender: You
can use aspare blender, or, better, make a simple Test-batch
mini-processor.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Another reason
is that processing in a blender doesn't scale up well to a
full-sizedprocessor, blenders are too fast. Scaling up:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#scale Best
Keith Best, Chris -Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:sustainablelorgbiofuel-bo [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Moran Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:46 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org;
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
biodiesel test batch question I think (but I'm not sure) that
methanol will evaporate at 140, is that correct? If it is, then
keeping the temp below that would become very important too.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of
Thomas Kelly Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 6:39 PM To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
biodiesel test batch question Mike, Test batches can
be difficult .. well worth the effort. Blenders provide
excellent agitation, but it is difficult to maintain the
proper temp.PET bottles allow one to maintain temp better, but
agitation may beinadequate.It is important to
maintain temp even if you must interupt agitation.
Suggestion: Achieve the temp of 130F, blend for 5minutes, check
temp If necessary, carefully return the liquid to a
container to be heated. Return to blender and repeat 2 (3?)
more times I use a hot water bath for heating the mix. Do you
have a pot big enough to fit the blender pitcher into? The pot
would contain hot (~150F) water. Instead of pouring the hot mix
back and forth you could simply place the pitcher from the
blender, with top on, into the hot water bath to re-establish
the130F, blot dry and buzz it again. I have returned to
doing sometest batches. I favor heating the mix
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Steve, Have your test batches passed the quality test? I do my test batches in a pot on a coleman stove out in the garage so I can maintain the temp. How do you agitate the mix? Is the processor an open pot? Tom - Original Message - From: Steve Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question I do my test batches in a pot on a coleman stove out in the garage so I can maintain the temp. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:58 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Jim,
As I write this email, I'm running another test batch. the oil was heated
to 148F before putting it into a cold blender. When I started
processing, the mixture was 122F and 42 minutes later it is at 145F. I'm
processing 40 minutes instead of the 20 to 30 minutes recommended on
Journey-to-forever just because I'm trying to ensure a complete reaction.
Have you not gotten complete reactions on 1L test batches run at 130F
(or higher) in a blender for 20 - 30 minutes?
You are using new, unused veg oil?
Tom
- Original Message -
From: James Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org;
biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Hey Mike. I'm a novice too but, for what it's worth, in my first 10 test
batches in a blender I have gotten a pretty substantial temperature
increase during mixing - between 10F and 20F increase depending on how
long I mixed the batch (from 25 to 45 minutes) and whether it was my
first, 2nd or 3rd batch of the evening (basically preheating the
blender). In my first couple of batches I tried to insulate the blender
with a towel because I was worried that the mixture would cool during
blending. After I saw such significant temperature gains, I took off the
towel. I believe that the temperature increase is due to friction of the
blades - I don't know if it is an exothermic reaction.
As I write this email, I'm running another test batch. the oil was heated
to 148F before putting it into a cold blender. When I started processing,
the mixture was 122F and 42 minutes later it is at 145F. I'm processing
40 minutes instead of the 20 to 30 minutes recommended on
Journey-to-forever just because I'm trying to ensure a complete reaction.
Hope that's useful.
Jim
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:49:05 +0900 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test
batch question Methanol shouldn't vaporize until 148.46 deg F
assuming the atmospheric pressure in you area is 760mmHg. That's
the boiling point of methanol. It starts to evaporate at much lower
temperatures than that. Temperature maintenance is one of the reasons
we recommend a mini-processor rather than a blender: You can use a
spare blender, or, better, make a simple Test-batch mini-processor.
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Another reason
is that processing in a blender doesn't scale up well to a full-sized
processor, blenders are too fast. Scaling up:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor.html#scale Best
Keith Best, Chris -Original Message- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:sustainablelorgbiofuel-bo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Moran Sent: Monday,
April 28, 2008 4:46 PM To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org;
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
biodiesel test batch question I think (but I'm not sure) that
methanol will evaporate at 140, is that correct? If it is, then
keeping the temp below that would become very important too.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of
Thomas Kelly Sent: Mon 4/28/2008 6:39 PM To:
sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel]
biodiesel test batch question Mike, Test batches can
be difficult .. well worth the effort. Blenders provide excellent
agitation, but it is difficult to maintain the proper temp.
PET bottles allow one to maintain temp better, but agitation may be
inadequate.
It is important to maintain temp even if you must interupt
agitation. Suggestion: Achieve the temp of 130F, blend for 5
minutes, check temp If necessary, carefully return the liquid to a
container to be heated. Return to blender and repeat 2 (3?)
more times I use a hot water bath for heating the mix. Do you
have a pot big enough to fit the blender pitcher into? The pot
would contain hot (~150F) water. Instead of pouring the hot mix
back and forth you could simply place the pitcher from the
blender, with top on, into the hot water bath to re-establish the
130F, blot dry and buzz it again. I have returned to doing some
test batches. I favor heating the mix in a PET bottle that has
a wide mouth with a twist open/close top. Sport drink plastic
bottles often have this feature. This allows me to limit methanol
evaporation while heating the mix. I either twist the top to open
while heatin
g or I squeeze the bottle to decrease volume of air before closing
and heating. The wide mouth and a funnel make it easy to add the
liquid. I heat the mix in a hot water bath. Good Luck,
Tom- Original Message - From: mike
Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proventotheworldbyShell Oil Company in 1973
Kirk, It's possible that Mike makes the fuel for his diesel. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proventotheworldbyShell Oil Company in 1973 why would you drive a diesel when it is inferior to your brilliant discovery? Kirk Mike Pelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I drive a diesel. The work I did on vaporized gasoline carburation ended in 1992 when I wrote the paper http://www.ByronWine.com/files/1992%20vapor.pdf .. If you read that paper than you'll see my recommendation for this technology is on a 'Prius' type hybrid electric car or a stationary generator. Read the paper and you'll understand my reasoning for this. I publish the paper here so others will be inspired to work on this technology as well and push it further. The timing for now is because of the collaborating and well documented proof by Shell Oil company with their 1973 project http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351903_needle20.html that got 376 MPGs and came to the light again recently after 35 years of being tucked away in some garage. ---Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:49 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline engines work as proventotheworldby Shell Oil Company in 1973 On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Mike Pelly wrote: quit your pompous pontificating. Can you please send information on the car that you drive, and what you have done to it to improve the efficiency, and what sort of average mpg you are getting from it? Z ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3060 (20080428) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3060 (20080428) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080428/bff128f7/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question
Mike, Test batches can be difficult .. well worth the effort. Blenders provide excellent agitation, but it is difficult to maintain the proper temp. PET bottles allow one to maintain temp better, but agitation may be inadequate. It is important to maintain temp even if you must interupt agitation. Suggestion: Achieve the temp of 130F, blend for 5 minutes, check temp If necessary, carefully return the liquid to a container to be heated. Return to blender and repeat 2 (3?) more times I use a hot water bath for heating the mix. Do you have a pot big enough to fit the blender pitcher into? The pot would contain hot (~150F) water. Instead of pouring the hot mix back and forth you could simply place the pitcher from the blender, with top on, into the hot water bath to re-establish the 130F, blot dry and buzz it again. I have returned to doing some test batches. I favor heating the mix in a PET bottle that has a wide mouth with a twist open/close top. Sport drink plastic bottles often have this feature. This allows me to limit methanol evaporation while heating the mix. I either twist the top to open while heating or I squeeze the bottle to decrease volume of air before closing and heating. The wide mouth and a funnel make it easy to add the liquid. I heat the mix in a hot water bath. Good Luck, Tom - Original Message - From: mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel test batch question Hello everyone, my first post i want to apologize if this has been answered, but I have searched the archives and relevant sites without finding a clear answer. I've been reading the j2f howto for doing my first test batch with unused veg oil and a blender. I see that I'm suppose to pre-heat the oil before starting the process to 130 deg F, but everything else i read says I need to maintain that temperature which isn't possible without moving the oil back to another container that can be heated so I guess basically i'm asking, is that temp (130) required for the reaction or does it just aid in a faster reaction. Thanks Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
Doug, Two of my four sons are color-deficient. It should have, but didn't occur to me that there might be a problem recognizing color change during titration. The forms of color deficiency that I am familiar with involves distinguishing between colors; ex: reds and greens of similar shades. Titration, using phenolphthalein, involves color change from clear (cloudy white as titration solution is added) to magenta. I would think that even those with significant color deficiency would be able to distinguish the difference. If nothing other than seeing it change from light to dark. I would think that distinguishing the split biodiesel top, glyc. mix bottom, especially from processing unused peanut oil, would have been more of a problem. I'll check with one of my color-deficient sons next time he stops by. Tom - Original Message - From: Doug Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Hi Tom, Perhaps Roger is partially or completely colour blind. As part of the 7 to 10% of the male population that is colour blind, I fully understand wanting, or rather needing, to use a pH meter. Most titration indicators rely upon colour changes I find that are difficult to detect, at least with any accuracy. I would be interested in finding out if there are any other options, other than a pH meter or a titration test, for determining the pH of a solution. Doug Turner, Hamilton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 1:25 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Roger, Freshly opened 55 gal drums of methanol usually are good. By the time you get to the bottom of barrel there is often water present due to condensation. As the level drops more air space. Moisture in air drops out over time methanol acquires water. Batches have more soap. I just picked up some peanut oil. I'll try a test batch to see if I have any problems. You'r insistance on using the pH meter ??? Because you have one? or is it titration fear? Phenolphthalein solution (dissolved in alcohol) turns from clear magenta at the pH range suitable for transesterification, making it suitable for determining any adjustments that must be made to the WVO we want to convert to BD. As Ken has pointed out, pH meters and pH paper are good for determining the pH of aqueous solutions, but not so for oil. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil That is what I was looking for. I was following the recipe to the 'T' and was wondering where I was going wrong. Anything is possible. The methanol came from Quaker City Chemical in a 55-Gal Drum, 99.9%. I opened the drum, removed 2 liters with a new, unused pump, then sealed the Nalgene containers and the drum back up. I assumed it would be water-less, but I may have missed something. Suppose there is water in the drum - does that make it useless? Any way to fix that? I used a name brand oil from the grocery store (not sure now what it was now.) That shouldn't be the problem. I'll buy the yellow Heet bottle and try again. In the meantime, I'll practice titration with my pH meter and find some phenolphthalein to try as well. I thought the pH meter would be easy to use and just as good but I'm not familiar with using one - so training my be necessary. I also don't have the calibration solutions yet either. Working for a surplus lab equipment company, we get all kinds of neat stuff - but more often than not it's not all there and that is even if I know what it is. The peanut oil I have came from Costco in the big jug. I used half for a turkey and figured it would be worth trying out. That'll be next. Thanks for your help, Roger Thomas Kelly wrote: Roger, I'm stumped by the third photo. Why so much soap when you used new veg oil. I'm surprisd it separated at all. You are certain the methanol is dry? Soap forms when there is water contamination. Soap forms when Free Fatty Acids are present. Ken P. responded to you on March 31: It's ALWAYS a good idea to titrate, even virgin oil. Many oils, including palm and olive (don't know about peanut) have high FFA levels as typically sold. The reason for using new, unused veg oil of our first test batches is to decrease the number of variables we are dealing with. It is best to avoid titration until you get the basic process under your belt. It is assumed that new oil doesn't have to be titrated. This may not be the case
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-diesel replacing Home Heating Oil
Tony, I've been burning BD in my home heating system for three heating seasons. I have a Beckett burner on my Burnham boiler. It supplies heat and domestic hot water. I suggest that you T a small tank into the fuel line so that you can make adjustments to the system using increasing BD blends. Be sure to use flare fittings and solid brass valves. Compression fittings and cheap valves tend to leak. Have spare filter cartridges and nozzles on hand. Personal Experience/burner modifications: Year One: ~20% blend in my storage tank w/o any modifications. Experimented w. higher BD blends in my day tank I ran into start-up problems as my blend approached 40% BD. Modifications: Increased pump pressure from 100 psi to 125 psi Changed nozzle from 1.0 gph/80 degree to .75gph/80 degree Reduced air flow into the burner Sealed any openings to chamber other than the inspection port. I switched from a Suntech to a Webster Bio-Pump (biodiesel compatible) It runs reliably on B100. I haven't bought HHO in two years. My storage tank is in my basement ~50F (10C) winter temps. - I ran the fuel line up and then down a section of pipe that carries hot water to my baseboard heaters. It is heavily insulated. During the coldest times of the year the fuel is warmed a bit before it gets to the pump. This is not the same as a nozzle pre-heater. I have one, but never installed it. - For my heating system I make a lower quality BD (16 - 18 % methanol vol/vol + brew larger batches) that does not quite pass the quality test. It is washed and dried. I suggest that as you tune your heating system, you use quality BD in order to rule out the fuel quality variable. - The day tank will be useful later if you want experiment w. burning lower quality BD, BD/WVO blends, BD/FFA blends. At this point a nozzle pre-heater may come in handy. This is not a once size fits all situation. Different systems seem to involve different adjustments; no serious modifications however. Good suggestion from JtF: Alternative fuels furnace forum -- altfuelfurnace Alternative fuels, like SVO (straight vegetable oil, waste vegetable oil), waste motor oil and biodiesel are being successfully burned in adapted residential oil-fired furnace burners such as Arco, R.W. Beckett, Carlin, Ducane, Esso, International, Riello, Slant Finn and Wayne. The forum is a meeting place to exchange information and ideas in adapting residential oil burners that use HHO (home heating oil) to these alternative fuels. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace/ Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] They have a section devoted to biodiesel. Good luck. Is Berkshire, NY in the Finger Lakes Region? Tom - Original Message - From: Tony Marzolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:32 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-diesel replacing Home Heating Oil Hello List, Is anyone using BD to replace #2 home heating oil? If yes, where there any modifications to the finance? Are you using a mixture (ex. B50) or 100%. Is the tank located inside the structure or outside? If outside any modifications to prevent gelling? We did some very preliminary testings using B50 and found the output to be approx the same as #2. But the nozzle needed to be cleaned first. Any comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tony Marzolino Berkshire, NY - You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080406/a8d37340/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
Update on peanut oil test batch: Because the biodiesel produced from a peanut oil test batch did not appear to pass the Jan W. methanol quality test (mix turned white; white precipitate settled), I reprocessed the biodiesel layer. No glycerin dropped out. The hot, reprocessed mix was clear and light yellow in color. I did a quality test on the reprocessed BD and again, the mix turned white. The methanol I used came from a shed; temp ~ 35F/2C, so I gently heated the methanol-BD mix and the white disappeared - clear solution. The solution stayed clear until it approached room temp (my kitchen: 65F/18C) at which point it began to cloud up again. At 70 - 75F (21 - 26C) the BD is completely soluble in methanol = passed the test. The reprocessed BD remains clear at room temp, but cooling it below 60F wisps of white begin to form. Ken P. (3/21/08): Peanut oil is about 75-80% oleic and linoleic, with the remainder almost entirely saturated (palmitic, stearic, and longer). I would expect biodiesel made from it to show precipitates at temperatures lower than maybe 65 F. I think Ken nailed it. The test batch was actually a success. At cool temps like my basement, an outdoor shed, or even my kitchen, the BD begins to cloud and then gel. I put the remaining peanut oil in my refrigerator. At about 40F (5C) there is a white layer on the bottom of the container. It has been my opinion and experience that the cloud point and pour point of biodiesel reflects the cloud and pour point of the veg. oil it was made from. Because the peanut oil did not cloud in my basement 55 - 60F (13- 15C), I didn't think the BD made from it would cloud at that temp. I'm still perplexed on that issue, but ... ? It might be a good idea to avoid processing peanut oil, especially newbies who are doing test batches. What other oils would fall into this category? Again, Ken P: Many oils, including palm and olive (don't know about peanut) have high FFA levels as typically sold. The wash test results on successfully processed peanut oil gives very unusual results: creamy white BD layer on top of a white water layer, with a thin white soap layer between. Using hot water gives better definition, but is generally viewed as cheating on the test. The washed/dried BD is very clear and almost colorless. Newbies might want to stick to canola, corn, soy oils for test batches. Best to All, Tom - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Roger, Peanut oil is interesting stuff. I just did a test batch with peanut oil Planter's 100% pure. Titration: 0ml0.1% KOH (90% pure) Less glycerine dropped out than I expect. Incomplete reaction? I let it settle for about an hour and then did a (solubility in methanol) quality test. - the mix turned white a white cloud' is settling in the methanol. (I've never seen anything like it w. fresh or waste veg oil.) I just did a wash test on a small sample - exactly what you described: White, on white, on white: cloudy white top layer (BD?), cloudy white bottom layer (water), thin soap layer (white) in between. I had to hold the container in front of a bright light to see contrast. After three shake washes I heated the top layer to get the water to drop out clear layer only slightly yellow. I did another quality test (methanol sol.) and again got white. I did a wash test and a quality test on untreated peanut oil -- oil settled out Maybe there are unreacted mono- di- glycerides that behave oddly in the wash and methanol tests. If I get a chance I will reprocess the sample of biodiesel that remains from the test batch. Maybe you just picked the wrong oil to start doing test batches on. I hope you are having better success with a different oil. I'm on my way to quality test a batch that is finishing up. Hopefully I'll have better luck on the mix of waste oil than I did on the peanut oil. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Sorry for the excitement and frustration. I've made 4 or 5 1L batches with virgin peanut oil with no luck. 1L Clean, Virgin, Peanut Oil 200ml Methanol 5.4g, 5.5g, 5.6g, 6.0g of 90% KOH (All with very similar results) 55°C Temp via Hotplate Agitation: Fast Stirring for 30 minutes via Hotplate The original separation looks great - waited at least 12 hours but separates in about 2 hours. Obvious layers with a slightly hazy, pale yellow
[Biofuel] High Oleic Acid/NuSun Sunflower Seeds was veg oil crop info
I am interested in growing a small patch of high oleic acid sunflowers (ex. NuSun) to see if there are any problems/idiosyncracies associated with them in my area. Any ideas on a source of seeds? . ounces, not 100lb bags Thanks, Tom - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] veg oil crop info On Jan 15, 2008, at 5:08 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: Which crop for the NE USA? Cornell University Extension grew rapeseed on an experimental plot in Poughkeepsie, NY. (NE USA). Although they successfully grew, dried the plant and pressed oil, I was told that there is resistance to growing rapeseed in the NE USA because it is typically dried in windrows for 1 to 2 weeks...The seeds are also apparently small... Other problems with rape are that the seedcake can be toxic to some animals, and many high-producing varieties are hybrids, which keeps the farmer in thrall to the big breeders (Monsanto, ADM, etc). Sunflower and safflower are good yield per acre, and both are available in open pollinated varieties. Pumpkins can be good, and you can use the pumpkin for food! Check out http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/dukeindex.html for a lot of good info on energy crops, including many oilseeds. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
Roger, Freshly opened 55 gal drums of methanol usually are good. By the time you get to the bottom of barrel there is often water present due to condensation. As the level drops more air space. Moisture in air drops out over time methanol acquires water. Batches have more soap. I just picked up some peanut oil. I'll try a test batch to see if I have any problems. You'r insistance on using the pH meter ??? Because you have one? or is it titration fear? Phenolphthalein solution (dissolved in alcohol) turns from clear magenta at the pH range suitable for transesterification, making it suitable for determining any adjustments that must be made to the WVO we want to convert to BD. As Ken has pointed out, pH meters and pH paper are good for determining the pH of aqueous solutions, but not so for oil. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil That is what I was looking for. I was following the recipe to the 'T' and was wondering where I was going wrong. Anything is possible. The methanol came from Quaker City Chemical in a 55-Gal Drum, 99.9%. I opened the drum, removed 2 liters with a new, unused pump, then sealed the Nalgene containers and the drum back up. I assumed it would be water-less, but I may have missed something. Suppose there is water in the drum - does that make it useless? Any way to fix that? I used a name brand oil from the grocery store (not sure now what it was now.) That shouldn't be the problem. I'll buy the yellow Heet bottle and try again. In the meantime, I'll practice titration with my pH meter and find some phenolphthalein to try as well. I thought the pH meter would be easy to use and just as good but I'm not familiar with using one - so training my be necessary. I also don't have the calibration solutions yet either. Working for a surplus lab equipment company, we get all kinds of neat stuff - but more often than not it's not all there and that is even if I know what it is. The peanut oil I have came from Costco in the big jug. I used half for a turkey and figured it would be worth trying out. That'll be next. Thanks for your help, Roger Thomas Kelly wrote: Roger, I'm stumped by the third photo. Why so much soap when you used new veg oil. I'm surprisd it separated at all. You are certain the methanol is dry? Soap forms when there is water contamination. Soap forms when Free Fatty Acids are present. Ken P. responded to you on March 31: It's ALWAYS a good idea to titrate, even virgin oil. Many oils, including palm and olive (don't know about peanut) have high FFA levels as typically sold. The reason for using new, unused veg oil of our first test batches is to decrease the number of variables we are dealing with. It is best to avoid titration until you get the basic process under your belt. It is assumed that new oil doesn't have to be titrated. This may not be the case. Suggestions: 1. Pick up a container of Heet (brand of gas line antifreeze) Yellow container, NOT Red. (If it is available to you.) ~ $1.50/300ml. (US). It is dry methanol. 2. I did my test batches using a name brand corn oil. The people I have helped in my neigborhood have done the same. We had no problems with FFAs. Maybe you should invest in a bottle of name brand corn oil . or is that what you already did? As for pH meters: (Ken P): pH really only makes sense when referring to a water-based solution. Sticking pH paper or pH meter into biodiesel gives spurious results in most cases. I often measure the pH of my wash water as a check of how much lye and soaps may be left in the biodiesel, but never the biodiesel (or oil) itself. Get Phenolphthalein (dissolved in alcohol) for titrations. We'll deal with the mysterious peanut oil and with you WVO after you succeed w. the test batches. I'm now curious about peanut oil. I'll see about getting some and doing a test batch myself. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil New Results...Better I think. I tried another batch last night with vegetable oil with 'better' results. 1L Clean, Virgin, Vegetable Oil 200ml Methanol 5.5g of 90% KOH (All with very similar results) 55°C Temp via Hotplate Agitation: Fast Stirring for 30 minutes via Hotplate Here are some pictures of what I have so far... http://tesi.servepics.com/roger/BD-4208-01a.JPG http://tesi.servepics.com/roger/BD-4208-01b.JPG http://tesi.servepics.com/roger/BD-4208-01c.JPG
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
Roger, Peanut oil is interesting stuff. I just did a test batch with peanut oil Planter's 100% pure. Titration: 0ml0.1% KOH (90% pure) Less glycerine dropped out than I expect. Incomplete reaction? I let it settle for about an hour and then did a (solubility in methanol) quality test. - the mix turned white a white cloud' is settling in the methanol. (I've never seen anything like it w. fresh or waste veg oil.) I just did a wash test on a small sample - exactly what you described: White, on white, on white: cloudy white top layer (BD?), cloudy white bottom layer (water), thin soap layer (white) in between. I had to hold the container in front of a bright light to see contrast. After three shake washes I heated the top layer to get the water to drop out clear layer only slightly yellow. I did another quality test (methanol sol.) and again got white. I did a wash test and a quality test on untreated peanut oil -- oil settled out Maybe there are unreacted mono- di- glycerides that behave oddly in the wash and methanol tests. If I get a chance I will reprocess the sample of biodiesel that remains from the test batch. Maybe you just picked the wrong oil to start doing test batches on. I hope you are having better success with a different oil. I'm on my way to quality test a batch that is finishing up. Hopefully I'll have better luck on the mix of waste oil than I did on the peanut oil. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Sorry for the excitement and frustration. I've made 4 or 5 1L batches with virgin peanut oil with no luck. 1L Clean, Virgin, Peanut Oil 200ml Methanol 5.4g, 5.5g, 5.6g, 6.0g of 90% KOH (All with very similar results) 55°C Temp via Hotplate Agitation: Fast Stirring for 30 minutes via Hotplate The original separation looks great - waited at least 12 hours but separates in about 2 hours. Obvious layers with a slightly hazy, pale yellow biodiesel layer and clear, darker by-product layer. Separated by pouring the biodiesel off the top. Looks to be about 1.1L of biodiesel for each batch. It's slightly colder in my garage, but not outside temperate. I'd say roughly 55°F or so. Each wash test was with 20ml of product and 20ml of water in a 50ml plastic tube. The final wash test I performed inside with warmer water. With each wash test I got cloudy water with a very thin white line between. The biodiesel looks cloudy white. The last batch of 6.0g separated the quickest, less than a minute - the others longer up to 15 minutes or so. However, it doesn't look quite like what J2F described as good fuel. And, with the rest of the batch in a jar in the garage, each one has turned to mush. Looks like the inside of a melon or something. My first thought was that peanut oil was different enough from vegetable oil that I would need to titrate it and change the KOH amount. However, I wasn't having much luck with the pH meter. One time it would be add 0.4gm of KOH and the next time 0.01g would be too much. I thought I didn't know how to use the meter. The processor I made (assuming I would be using it by now) has 2) 75 gallon tanks with individual heaters, controls, pumps, and stirrers. It can be used as a 150gal unit or a 2-stage 75gal unit. (I've attached a picture.) I can't wait to try it but haven't used it yet for fear of making a lot of soap. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thomas Kelly wrote: Roger, Back up a bit. Has anyone tried this? It's all I had laying around to start with but I keep getting a questionable result. By tried this do you mean peanut oil? If so, I have run batches with peanut oil mixed in. Since it was new, I tried the same recipe for virgin vegetable oil and it didn't really pass the wash test and as soon as it got cold, it turned into sludge. Got cold???The wash test is done at room temp 70-ish F (20-ish C) I made a 2x75Gal machine that I am dying to use and the used oil is piling up. (What's a 2x75Gal machine? a 75 Gal processor? 150 Gal processor?) Hold on now cowboy . let's not sign up for a marathon run before we up and walking. You don't want to turn gallons of good oil into gallons of goop. You might start by telling us step-by-step what you are doing. Ex 1L fresh, unused vegetable oil 200ml methanol 5.45 g of 90% KOH Method of agitation? Temp? 30 minutes reaction time Do you get a clear split? How long do you let it settle? How do you separate the settled glycerine mix from the biodiesel (separatory funnel?) Describe the results of the wash test, done
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
Roger, I'm stumped by the third photo. Why so much soap when you used new veg oil. I'm surprisd it separated at all. You are certain the methanol is dry? Soap forms when there is water contamination. Soap forms when Free Fatty Acids are present. Ken P. responded to you on March 31: It's ALWAYS a good idea to titrate, even virgin oil. Many oils, including palm and olive (don't know about peanut) have high FFA levels as typically sold. The reason for using new, unused veg oil of our first test batches is to decrease the number of variables we are dealing with. It is best to avoid titration until you get the basic process under your belt. It is assumed that new oil doesn't have to be titrated. This may not be the case. Suggestions: 1. Pick up a container of Heet (brand of gas line antifreeze) Yellow container, NOT Red. (If it is available to you.) ~ $1.50/300ml. (US). It is dry methanol. 2. I did my test batches using a name brand corn oil. The people I have helped in my neigborhood have done the same. We had no problems with FFAs. Maybe you should invest in a bottle of name brand corn oil . or is that what you already did? As for pH meters: (Ken P): pH really only makes sense when referring to a water-based solution. Sticking pH paper or pH meter into biodiesel gives spurious results in most cases. I often measure the pH of my wash water as a check of how much lye and soaps may be left in the biodiesel, but never the biodiesel (or oil) itself. Get Phenolphthalein (dissolved in alcohol) for titrations. We'll deal with the mysterious peanut oil and with you WVO after you succeed w. the test batches. I'm now curious about peanut oil. I'll see about getting some and doing a test batch myself. Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil New Results...Better I think. I tried another batch last night with vegetable oil with 'better' results. 1L Clean, Virgin, Vegetable Oil 200ml Methanol 5.5g of 90% KOH (All with very similar results) 55°C Temp via Hotplate Agitation: Fast Stirring for 30 minutes via Hotplate Here are some pictures of what I have so far... http://tesi.servepics.com/roger/BD-4208-01a.JPG http://tesi.servepics.com/roger/BD-4208-01b.JPG http://tesi.servepics.com/roger/BD-4208-01c.JPG I let it settle for 14 hours. Picture A is of the results. Picture B is right after shaking 20ml of BD and 20ml of water (both at room temperature) Picture C is after an hour of settling. The is the best wash test I've gotten but it looks like a lot of soap in there. So my question is... which way do I need to go to make it better? More KOH? I'm using very accurate measurements. (Digital balance accurate to 0.001g, Graduated cylinders, etc.) No water contamination that I'm aware of and taking precautions not to have any. That is the only thing missing from J2F, pictures with typical results and adjustments necessary to make improvements. Haven't tried the methanol test yet (still at work). Now, when I used peanut oil with the same recipe, I got a cloudy, opaque water and cloudy whiteish BD after the wash test. Any thoughts on which way I need to go with that? I presume I'll have to titrate it and make adjustments from there. I need a pH probe to go with my meter before I can proceed with the peanut oil or used oil. Thomas Kelly wrote: Roger, Now we're getting somewhere. The original separation looks great - waited at least 12 hours but separates in about 2 hours. Obvious layers with a slightly hazy, pale yellow biodiesel layer and clear, darker by-product layer. Separated by pouring the biodiesel off the top. Looks to be about 1.1L of biodiesel for each batch. You are getting a clear split. You have made biodiesel. You may well have some unreacted mono and di glycerides in with the BD. - Have you tried a quality test on the unwashed biodiesel? i.e. the Jan W. solubility in methanol test describes at JtF? - I would be very careful not to include any glycerin mix when you pour the biodiesel off the top. In fact I would avoid pouring altogether. Draw the BD off using a pipette or do the following: Get a few .5 L - 1L clear plastic sports drink bottle (PET bottles) that have twist open/close tops. Some water bottles have pull-to-open push-to-close tops. Process as usual, allow to cool a bit and then pour the mix into one of the bottles. Allow the biodiesel-glycerin mix to settle in a closed and inverted bottle. After 12 - 24 hours drain out the glycerin from the bottom. If any unreacted glycerides are present, even a small amount of glycerin/soap contamination will prolong separation time during the wash test. With each wash test I got cloudy water with a very
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
Roger, Back up a bit. Has anyone tried this? It's all I had laying around to start with but I keep getting a questionable result. By tried this do you mean peanut oil? If so, I have run batches with peanut oil mixed in. Since it was new, I tried the same recipe for virgin vegetable oil and it didn't really pass the wash test and as soon as it got cold, it turned into sludge. Got cold???The wash test is done at room temp 70-ish F (20-ish C) I made a 2x75Gal machine that I am dying to use and the used oil is piling up. (What's a 2x75Gal machine? a 75 Gal processor? 150 Gal processor?) Hold on now cowboy . let's not sign up for a marathon run before we up and walking. You don't want to turn gallons of good oil into gallons of goop. You might start by telling us step-by-step what you are doing. Ex 1L fresh, unused vegetable oil 200ml methanol 5.45 g of 90% KOH Method of agitation? Temp? 30 minutes reaction time Do you get a clear split? How long do you let it settle? How do you separate the settled glycerine mix from the biodiesel (separatory funnel?) Describe the results of the wash test, done at room temp, as to time for separation + appearance of layers. While it is important to be able to measure accurately, especially for 1L test batches, I have gotten along fine w/o a pH meter. Best Wishes, Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Has anyone tried this? It's all I had laying around to start with but I keep getting a questionable result. Since it was new, I tried the same recipe for virgin vegetable oil and it didn't really pass the wash test and as soon as it got cold, it turned into sludge. I wish there was more pictures - not sure if I'm adding too much of something or too little or what. I'm using some nice equipment (I work for a laboratory surplus equipment company) such as a lab scale, pH meter, quality glassware, hotplate stirrer and a 2L reaction vessel. I'm holding the temperature right on, mixing for 30 minutes, etc. I have 90% KOH and 99.9% methanol from a local chem distributor. Not sure when I'm doing wrong, but any advice would be great. I made a 2x75Gal machine that I am dying to use and the used oil is piling up. Also, I don't know if I'm using my pH meter correctly. Can someone give directions on proper use of one of these? If anyone needs any special equipment, just ask. I even have tanks, etc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil
, it doesn't look quite like what J2F described as good fuel. And, with the rest of the batch in a jar in the garage, each one has turned to mush. Looks like the inside of a melon or something. My first thought was that peanut oil was different enough from vegetable oil that I would need to titrate it and change the KOH amount. However, I wasn't having much luck with the pH meter. One time it would be add 0.4gm of KOH and the next time 0.01g would be too much. I thought I didn't know how to use the meter. The processor I made (assuming I would be using it by now) has 2) 75 gallon tanks with individual heaters, controls, pumps, and stirrers. It can be used as a 150gal unit or a 2-stage 75gal unit. (I've attached a picture.) I can't wait to try it but haven't used it yet for fear of making a lot of soap. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thomas Kelly wrote: Roger, Back up a bit. Has anyone tried this? It's all I had laying around to start with but I keep getting a questionable result. By tried this do you mean peanut oil? If so, I have run batches with peanut oil mixed in. Since it was new, I tried the same recipe for virgin vegetable oil and it didn't really pass the wash test and as soon as it got cold, it turned into sludge. Got cold???The wash test is done at room temp 70-ish F (20-ish C) I made a 2x75Gal machine that I am dying to use and the used oil is piling up. (What's a 2x75Gal machine? a 75 Gal processor? 150 Gal processor?) Hold on now cowboy . let's not sign up for a marathon run before we up and walking. You don't want to turn gallons of good oil into gallons of goop. You might start by telling us step-by-step what you are doing. Ex 1L fresh, unused vegetable oil 200ml methanol 5.45 g of 90% KOH Method of agitation? Temp? 30 minutes reaction time Do you get a clear split? How long do you let it settle? How do you separate the settled glycerine mix from the biodiesel (separatory funnel?) Describe the results of the wash test, done at room temp, as to time for separation + appearance of layers. While it is important to be able to measure accurately, especially for 1L test batches, I have gotten along fine w/o a pH meter. Best Wishes, Tom - Original Message - From: Roger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Test Batches with Peanut Oil Has anyone tried this? It's all I had laying around to start with but I keep getting a questionable result. Since it was new, I tried the same recipe for virgin vegetable oil and it didn't really pass the wash test and as soon as it got cold, it turned into sludge. I wish there was more pictures - not sure if I'm adding too much of something or too little or what. I'm using some nice equipment (I work for a laboratory surplus equipment company) such as a lab scale, pH meter, quality glassware, hotplate stirrer and a 2L reaction vessel. I'm holding the temperature right on, mixing for 30 minutes, etc. I have 90% KOH and 99.9% methanol from a local chem distributor. Not sure when I'm doing wrong, but any advice would be great. I made a 2x75Gal machine that I am dying to use and the used oil is piling up. Also, I don't know if I'm using my pH meter correctly. Can someone give directions on proper use of one of these? If anyone needs any special equipment, just ask. I even have tanks, etc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080331/2a2af568/attachment.html -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 031808_001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 24944 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/attachments/20080331/2a2af568/attachment.jpg ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search
Re: [Biofuel] Newby
Jim, I have gotten methanol from VP Racing Fuels. It was always good quality dry. That said, I haven't had much luck with my initial 1L batches... No split? BD Fails wash test? Fails quality test? Tom - Original Message - From: James Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org; biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newby I'm a newby as well... but have been able to get methanol for my test batches in a 5 gallon size from a local VP Racing Fuels distributor. go to their website to find a distributor in your area. http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html That said, I haven't had much luck with my initial 1L batches... I'm hoping the quality of the methanol isn't contributing to the problem but I don't really know how to check the quality of the methanol. Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 15:57:47 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Newby Hi, Can anyone give me some info on locating methanol? Just starting up small scale biodiesel processing. thanks, Steve -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080329/0d330b40/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080329/0614360a/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Hello Keith, That's from here, Deacidifying WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#deacid That might be worth a look, since you're after reducing FFA levels. I'm interested in making the Glyc. cocktail as compostable as possible. If you invert the process to Treating Glycerine Cocktail w. FFAs in WVO, it probably gives a better picture of my thinking. I get good WVO most of the time. I was interested in neutralizing the glycerine mix. I am also interested in minimizing the amount of soap that settles into the mix. If the glyc. is neutralizing FFAs, the FFAs are also neutralizing the glyc. If the treatment removed water from the WVO and also lowers FFAs, this should reduce soap production -- less in the glyc. While it is a benefit to lower the FFAs in terms of caustic needed to process the WVO, my interest in lowering the FFA in the WVO was as much a matter of decreasing the soap that would settle into the glycerine. If water was also removed by treating WVO with glyc. cocktail, this would decrease soap content further. It is my opinion that lower pH and less soap make unsplit glyc. more compostable. I now have 20+ liters of treated glycerine. I have enough phosphoric acid to split some glyc cocktail, and I have plenty of untreated glyc.When the weather warms up a bit I'll build a few compost piles and see if there's any noticable difference in decomposition. Winter will not let go. I long to be diggin' in the dirt. Tom - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail Hi Tom snip You can tell me enough already and I'll stop, but the gel layer we observe between the treated WVO and the glycerine interests me. Is it fair to say that some of the soap in the glycerine interacts w. some of the mono- and di- glycerides in the WVO to form the layer. It has hydophobic properties that expel water, glycerine and other charged/polar molecules. How is this gel layer to be disposed of? Any danger/harm associated with combining it with saw dust and wood chips - burning in a wood stove? It might not burn very well, nor completely, it might leave quite a lot of sludge. But burning it at normal woodstove temperatures should be safe enough. Maybe you can turn it into Dubbin, which is useful stuff. The soapstock can be used for producing soap, or turned into calcium soap, which is something like Dubbin and has an extremely low water solubility. Useful stuff. Thus an equimolar amount of calcium chloride may be directly added to the soapstock and prompt separation of the calcium soap by precipitation from a relatively pure saline (NaCl) solution will ensue. Calcium soaps are useful industrial ingredients, for instance as demoulding agents. -- Chemical Reactions of Oil, Fat and Fat Based Products -- Neutralization (chemical processing) http://alfa.ist.utl.pt/~fidel/creac/sec34b.html Um, that's if you used NaOH, I don't know what will happen if it was KOH. That's from here, Deacidifying WVO: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#deacid That might be worth a look, since you're after reducing FFA levels. HTH Best Keith snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Pesticide Use linked to Parkinson's Disease
Hello All, I thought this might be of interest as we, in the Northern Hemisphere, break ground for our gardens/farms. Family Study Associates Pesticide Use With Parkinson's Risk Study found strongest ties to herbicides and insecticides -- Kevin McKeever FRIDAY, March 28 (HealthDay News) -- Parkinson's disease has been linked to exposure to pesticides in a new study comparing peoplewith the neurological disorder and their unaffected relatives. The study, published online in the open-access journal BMC Neurology, found the strongest ties to the use of herbicides and insecticides, such as organochlorides and organophosphates. Drinking well water or living or working on a farm, two common experiences for pesticide exposures, did not appear to be associated with Parkinson's. Many Parkinson's disease cases are thought to be due to an interaction between genetic and environmental factors. By studying related individuals who share environmental and genetic backgrounds, researchers said they could identify specific differences in exposures between individuals with and without the disease. Previous studies have shown that individuals with Parkinson's disease are over twice as likely to report being exposed to pesticides as unaffected individuals, but few studies have looked at this association in people from the same family or have assessed associations between specific classes of pesticides and Parkinson's disease, study author Dana Hancock said in a prepared statement. Researchers from both Duke University Medical Center and the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine interviewed 319 Parkinson's patients and more than 200 of their relatives to get details about whether they ever were exposed to pesticides, lived or worked on a farm, or drank water from wells. Parkinson's disease, which affects about 1 million people in the United States, is characterized by symptoms such as tremors and muscle rigidity. Several gene variations have been tagged as contributing to the disease, but these rare defects account for a small proportion of those affected by disorder. While several other studies have supported pesticides as a risk factor for Parkinson's, biological evidence is presently insufficient to conclude that pesticide exposure causes PD, Hancock said. Further investigation of these specific pesticides and others may lead to identification of pertinent biological pathways influencing PD development, he said. Just another reason to say no to pesticides Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080329/45cb6e49/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pesticide Use linked to Parkinson's Disease
Luke, I'm sorry to hear that your Mom has Parkinson's. I don't know if evidence to support her gut feeling is of any consolation to her. Maybe it will cause somebody reading this to go to the Small Farms Library at www.journeytoforever.org and learn how to grow food w/o pesticides. Maybe more of us will say no to pesticides on our food and become part of the growing move towards healthful, locally-produced food. Best to You, and I wish your Mom well. Tom - Original Message - From: Luke Mathisen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pesticide Use linked to Parkinson's Disease My mom has Parkinson's and for a decade she has maintained it was from her exposure to pesticides - guess she is right. (Not a fun disease folks...) Luke -- From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/29/2008 5:54 AM To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pesticide Use linked to Parkinson's Disease Hello All, I thought this might be of interest as we, in the Northern Hemisphere, break ground for our gardens/farms. Family Study Associates Pesticide Use With Parkinson's Risk Study found strongest ties to herbicides and insecticides -- Kevin McKeever FRIDAY, March 28 (HealthDay News) -- Parkinson's disease has been linked to exposure to pesticides in a new study comparing peoplewith the neurological disorder and their unaffected relatives. The study, published online in the open-access journal BMC Neurology, found the strongest ties to the use of herbicides and insecticides, such as organochlorides and organophosphates. Drinking well water or living or working on a farm, two common experiences for pesticide exposures, did not appear to be associated with Parkinson's. Many Parkinson's disease cases are thought to be due to an interaction between genetic and environmental factors. By studying related individuals who share environmental and genetic backgrounds, researchers said they could identify specific differences in exposures between individuals with and without the disease. Previous studies have shown that individuals with Parkinson's disease are over twice as likely to report being exposed to pesticides as unaffected individuals, but few studies have looked at this association in people from the same family or have assessed associations between specific classes of pesticides and Parkinson's disease, study author Dana Hancock said in a prepared statement. Researchers from both Duke University Medical Center and the University of Miami Miller School of Medicine interviewed 319 Parkinson's patients and more than 200 of their relatives to get details about whether they ever were exposed to pesticides, lived or worked on a farm, or drank water from wells. Parkinson's disease, which affects about 1 million people in the United States, is characterized by symptoms such as tremors and muscle rigidity. Several gene variations have been tagged as contributing to the disease, but these rare defects account for a small proportion of those affected by disorder. While several other studies have supported pesticides as a risk factor for Parkinson's, biological evidence is presently insufficient to conclude that pesticide exposure causes PD, Hancock said. Further investigation of these specific pesticides and others may lead to identification of pertinent biological pathways influencing PD development, he said. Just another reason to say no to pesticides Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080329/45cb6e49/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Newby
Steve, It may depend on your location. I am in the Northeast US. If you are doing 1L test batches, you may be able to locate Heet fuel line antifreeze. The yellow container is methanol. The red one is isopropanol (can be used for titration, but not for processing). They are available year round in my area. Can be found at auto supply stores, even at hardware stores. While doing 1L test batches, call chemical supply companies - they may only deliver to a business. If there are racetracks (auto) in the area, you may be able to get 1 - 5 gal containers or even 55 gal drums of methanol. Distributers of petroleum products - lubricants, etc. may carry methanol if you are interested in barrels. They often supply jiffy-lube type places with methanol to add to windshield washer fluid. It acts as an antifreeze. The price of methanol tends to go down late spring and into summer, and rise w. demand for washer antifreeze when the weather gets cold. Good luck to you, Tom - Original Message - From: Steve Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:57 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Newby Hi, Can anyone give me some info on locating methanol? Just starting up small scale biodiesel processing. thanks, Steve -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080329/0d330b40/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Chris,
Thanks for the explanations.
I tend to think of bases as suppliers of OH- . It didn't occur to me
that glycerine could act as a base by absorbing H+.
In the spring of 2006 I was attempting to split the glycerine cocktail
using H3PO4.
[Biofuel] Separating Glycerine Thomas Kelly
Mon, 15 May 2006 10:50:07 -0700
I attempted to calculate the amount (Moles) of NaOH in the glyc. and then
add enough H3PO4 to neutralize the NaOH. It always required much more acid
than my calculations indicated. The extra acid was probably needed to deal
w. the glycerine (???)
You can tell me enough already and I'll stop, but the gel layer we
observe between the treated WVO and the glycerine interests me. Is it fair
to say that some of the soap in the glycerine interacts w. some of the mono-
and di- glycerides in the WVO to form the layer. It has hydophobic
properties that expel water, glycerine and other charged/polar molecules.
How is this gel layer to be disposed of?
Any danger/harm associated with combining it with saw dust and wood
chips - burning in a wood stove?
One of my sources of WVO is very good oil, but contains particles, some
of which will pass through a 10 micron filter. A couple of weeks of settling
in the warm sun results in sparkling clean oil and a layer of sediment. This
is fine for the warmer months, but late fall through spring I have a
difficult time getting this oil to settle.
I used this WVO for my first test of the treatment. The WVO came out
clean. The sediment appeared to be in the glycerine layer. It seemed to have
agregated into clumps that settled to the bottom.
Particles this small may simply suspend in cold, thick oil. If they
have regions of charge, they might have an affinity for the glycerine. They
seem to settle out of it rather quickly. I don't know why.
Treating WVO with glycerine cocktail seems to:
- de-water the WVO
- lower the FFAs in the WVO
- help remove suspended particles from the WVO
- lower the pH of the glyc. mix
This would translate into:
- less caustic required to process the WVO.
- less soap produced
- better composting of the glyc mix (?) (we'll see)
I still suspect that something else is different about the glyc. mix.
Take a sample (3 - 5ml) shake it in ~200ml of water. Compare to the same
using untreated glyc. mix.
I tested my second batch of treated WVO:
- 90 L WVO titrated 3.4; agitated w. 15L glyc. cocktail
~87 L oil that titrated 2.2
Some oil is in the gel layer, some of the FFAs were converted to soap and
settled w. the glyc. and some oil is floating on top of the glycerine.
Thanks again,
Tom
- Original Message -
From: chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Hi Tom,
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Thomas Kelly
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 4:24 AM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Chris,
Good to hear from you.
I asked why the treated WVO didn't titrate lower.
Chris:
There just might not be enough NaOH in the glycerine cocktail to
neutralize all ffa's. Longer treatment will make no difference if
this is
the case.
I was curious because the WVO still has FFAs (titrated 1.8) and
the
glycerine mix still is caustic (pH ~ 8).
Having a pH of 8 doesn't mean that there are still NaOH present. Salts
like
soap(it is product of neutralization of NaOH, a base, and a fatty acid, an
acid) usually have higher pH. Glycerine may also cause the high pH. To
explain this. An acid is something that will produce H+ called a hydronium
ion or a proton. A base is something that will produce OH- called a
hydroxide ion. An acid is also something that will accept an OH- and is
therefore an electron acceptor because OH- has lots of electrons. A base
is
also something that will accept a proton(H+) and will therefore share its
electrons with the H+. Water acts both ways it can give H+ and OH- at the
same time (autoionization) but this rarely happens and happens fast except
when substances are introduced in water, say glycerine. Glycerine is a
tri-alcohol(1,2,3-propantriol)hence it is also called glycerol. This means
that there are 3 -OH's (this is different from OH-) attached to a 3-carbon
backbone. Each carbon is attached to one -OH. Alcohols are usually
weakly/slightly acidic because H+ can detach from the -OH. In the case of
glycerol this is not the case. The presence of the other -OH's in the
molecule prevents this. And because of the -OH's, glycerol forms H-bonds
with other glycerol molecules that's why it is syrupy. (H-bonds are not
bonds. They are actually intermolecular attraction.)Now, if you add
glycerol
Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Ken, Maybe in your situation you might want to intentionally split the soaps to FFA's. This is done by acidifying the glycerine phase, I did this a couple of years ago. The split glycerine composted beautifully. I blended the FFAs w. BD and burned them in my home boiler. I recovered methanol from the glycerine. I still have pounds of potassium phosphate. I balanced the cost of phosphoric acid with the value of the methanol recovered, but found the energy required to recover the methanol + the quality of the methanol recovered by my simple still wasn't worth the time and space it took. Maybe I should attempt to build a reflux still (?). I was hoping that treating the WVO w Glyc would be a simple way to at least approximate the properties of the glycerine split from the mix. Turns out to be not so simple after all. Thanks, Tom - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail On Mar 20, 2008, at 6:17 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote: I'm most interested in dealing with the glyc byproduct. When I compost my glycerin mix, I would like for it to be water soluble. I would also like for it to be as close to neutral pH as possible. It is my impression that FFAs and/or water-insoluble soaps in the mix form globs that clog my sprayer, and may be more difficult to break down than split glycerine. Maybe in your situation you might want to intentionally split the soaps to FFA's. This is done by acidifying the glycerine phase, perhaps after diluting it in some warm water. Phosphoric, sulfuric, even hydrochloric acid will do nicely -- I kind of like phosphoric. You add enough acid to get a layer of FFA on top, skim that off, then bring back the underlying aqueous phase to pH 7 with, say, ammonia. The resulting de-FFA'd glycerine might not gum up the works so much, probably composts better, has some N and P to help your compost (not organic anymore, of course :-(), and you can use the separated FFA to make real soap (not the soap people make from the glycerine phase, which is a little soap plus too much glycerine). -Ken Provost ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Chris, Good to hear from you. I asked why the treated WVO didn't titrate lower. Chris: There just might not be enough NaOH in the glycerine cocktail to neutralize all ffa's. Longer treatment will make no difference if this is the case. I was curious because the WVO still has FFAs (titrated 1.8) and the glycerine mix still is caustic (pH ~ 8). (I'm going to switch the order of my ques/your answers, in order to ask a question) Tom: - I didn't notice tallow in the WVO I loaded into the processor, but it was clearly evident in the settled mix after treatment; same temp as the original WVO was. Any explanation? (Could be I just didn't see it) Chris: We've also observed this. I believe that it is not tallow but soap formed during treatment. The soap is translucent gelly. The glycerine settles out at the bottom from the soap. Wouldn't this glycerine-insoluble soap also be a water-insoluble soap? Tom: re: adding acid to increase solubity of soap. Does decreasing pH increase the solubility of otherwise water insoluble soaps? Chris: If a substance is insoluble in polar water it will be more insoluble in more polar acid solution unless solubility constants (Ksp) are involved but I think this is not the case here. Is it possible that a substance (soap) is soluble in glycerine when the pH is 9, but less soluble when the pH is 7 or 8? i.e. it will be more insoluble in more polar acid solution Such a substance would separate ( gel layer?) from the treated glycerine, but not be observed in the raw glyc cocktail. My thinking: Maybe the water-insoluble soap is not made more soluble by the change in pH, but less soluble. It is then separated out during settling - treated glycerine mix that will not clog my sprayer and, fingers crossed, compost as well as the glycerine that I acid-split from the mix once upon a time. This might explain the increased foaming of the treated glycerine vs untreated when shaken in water. It doesn't explain why untreated glycerine foams better when a small amount of acid is added to it. (???) Let me ask one more thing: When you say: If a substance is insoluble in polar water it will be more insoluble in more polar acid solution .. What if it is not a more polar acid solution that is produced. What if the solution is alkaline to start (first wash or the raw glyc mix), and the acid simply decreases alkalinity. Would a decrease in alkalinity, towards neutral make the solution less polar and thereby effect solubility? I should have paid more attention in chemistry class, Tom - Original Message - From: chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thomas Kelly Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:56 PM To: biofuel Subject: [Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail Questions: (Take your pick) - FFAs are very weak acids. Is this why the WVO titration did not drop to zero? Would longer treatment or more glyc. cocktail be needed to further lower FFAs? There just might not be enough NaOH in the glycerine cocktail to neutralize all ffa's. Longer treatment will make no difference if this is the case. - A while back it was suggested that I add a small amount of phosphoric acid to my first wash to help remove water insoluble soaps. Does decreasing pH increase the solubility of otherwise water insoluble soaps? If a substance is insoluble in polar water it will be more insoluble in more polar acid solution unless solubility constants (Ksp) are involved but I think this is not the case here. - I didn't notice tallow in the WVO I loaded into the processor, but it was clearly evident in the settled mix after treatment; same temp as the original WVO was. Any explanation? (Could be I just didn't see it) We've also observed this. I believe that it is not tallow but soap formed during treatment. The soap is translucent gelly. The glycerine settles out at the bottom from the soap. - The odor of the glycerine was distinctly less offensive after treatment. I suspect there was less methanol present. The temp of the mix never even reached 80F (27C). I can't imagine that it was used to form methyl esters. Is the presumed missing methanol now dissolved in the WVO (90 L WVO vs 9 L of glycerine). Any other reason for the change in odor? I suspect the same. My this has become quite wordy. Sorry 'bout that Tom Best regards, Chris Tan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Anything that grows 'can convert into oil?
Good Mornin' Kirk, The article you forwarded says: J.C. Bell, an agricultural researcher and CEO of Bell Bio-Energy, says he's isolated and modified specific bacteria that will, on a very large scale, naturally change plant material - including the leftovers from food - into hydrocarbons to fuel cars and trucks. and later: Naturally occurring bacteria used to convert biomass into hydrocarbons. These materials, plant materials food leftovers, biomass, are already hydrocarbons. Naturally-occurring bacteria - the methanocreatrices - do convert them to methane, biogas. Mr. Bell is quoted as saying: We're going to make gasoline for driving, diesel for our big trucks. This is where things get interesting. I'm not saying impossible, mind you, but definitely a new twist. Is it possible for microbes to string together 1-carbon methane gas molecules into long chains of hydrocarbons? We'll have to see. I'm reminded of an interesting process that holds great potential for producing ethanol from the waste stream of organic matter. It is called the Coskata Process www.coskata.com and apparently is getting some serious financial backing. The process is described at the web site. It is not for homebrewers as it involves gasification of the biomass and then utilizing microbes that have been bred at a number of Universities to build ethanol from the carbon monoxide and hydrogen gas generated during gasification. I believe it uses membrane technology rather than distillation to separate the ethanol. While we may be on the verge of making significant improvements in the areas of renewable energy, I'm a bit ambivalent. Replace fossil fuels = good. Unlimited supply of energy dense portable liquid fuel = cheap. I'm not so sure I want a magic bullet an answer that allows us to continue the current path of excess. There's a lesson still to be learned about energy use, about the true cost of industrial food production, Call me crazy, but I actually sense that people are beginning to poke their heads up out of the haze; they're catching on. Best to You, Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Anything that grows 'can convert into oil? - BLACK-GOLD BLUES Anything that grows 'can convert into oil' Company finds natural solution that turns plants into gasoline - Posted: March 19, 2008 9:44 pm Eastern By Joe Kovacs © 2008 WorldNetDaily After three years of clandestine development, a Georgia company is now going public with a simple, natural way to convert anything that grows out of the Earth into oil. J.C. Bell, an agricultural researcher and CEO of Bell Bio-Energy, says he's isolated and modified specific bacteria that will, on a very large scale, naturally change plant material - including the leftovers from food - into hydrocarbons to fuel cars and trucks. What we're doing is taking the trash like corn stalks, corn husks, corn cobs - even grass from the yard that goes to the dump - that's what we can turn into oil, Bell told WND. I'm not going to make asphalt, we're only going to make the things we need. We're going to make gasoline for driving, diesel for our big trucks. Wood pulp is among the many natural materials that can be converted into oil and gasoline, according to Bell Bio-Energy, Inc., of Tifton, Ga. The agricultural researcher made the discovery after standing downwind from his cows at his food-production company, Bell Plantation, in Tifton, Ga. Cows are like people that eat lots of beans. They're really, really good at making natural gas, he said. It dawned on me that that natural gas was methane. Bell says he wondered what digestive process inside a cow enabled it to change food into the hydrocarbon molecules of methane, so he began looking into replicating and speeding up the process. Through genetic manipulation, we've changed the naturally occurring bacteria, so they eat and consume biomass a little more efficiently, he said. It works. There's not even any debate that it works. It really is an all-natural, simple process that cows use on a daily basis. Naturally occurring bacteria used to convert biomass into hydrocarbons. But does he think it will make environmentalists happy? They love this. We had one totally recognizable environmentalist from Hollywood say this is everything they ever had hoped for, Bell said. This could be considered the ultimate recycling of carbon. We are using the energy of the sun through the plant. We're not introducing any new carbon [to the environment]. The research has received strong support from the U.S. Department of Defense, Department of Energy, Department of Agriculture and
[Biofuel] Treating WVO w. Glycerine Cocktail
Hello All, Some time back Chris Tan presented an interesting idea: Use the glycerin mix from BD processing to lower FFAs and decrease water in WVO. I've begun testing the idea. Results are preliminary at best, but I have a few observations that I'd appreciate comment on. Process: I titrated and then loaded 90 L WVO along with 9 L glycerin mix into the processor. The mix was pump agitated and warmed to about 75 F (25 C). I left the pump on for about 45 minutes. As soon as I stopped the pump i removed a sample of the mix so I could see when it had settled. I also titrated this daily to see when the titration stabilized (2 - 3 days). I let the mix settle for 5 days and then drained the glycerin from the bottom. I then removed and titrated a sample of the WVO. I prepped appropriate methoxide (20% vol/vol), and processed the oil based on the second titration (treated WVO). Results: - Original WVO titrated 2.7 (I use 0.1% KOH titration solution; made from 90% KOH) - Treated WVO titrated 1.8 (Same for oil from the reactor and from the sample removed earlier) - BD passed Warnvist Quality Test. Observations: - I noticed a distinct creamy layer between the settled WVO (top) and the glycerine (bottom). I presume that this is tallow as it clarified upon heating and clouded up again upon cooling. I hadn't noticed any tallow in the WVO I loaded into the processor. - I did not notice any difference in the amount of soap produced in the wash test. (Less water and FFAs in the WVO should result in less soap.) This is probably because I used good oil (2.7 using my KOH titration solution is the equivalent of about 1.7 using .1% NaOH). - I did notice some things different about the glycerin after treatment. a. It was less offensive in terms of odor. (Less methanol?) b. Although by no means was it clear, it did appear less opaque . swirled within a clear glass jar it appeared cleaner than the untreated glycerine. c. I was unable to determine whether or not pH was significantly affected, but the treated glycerin produced noticeably better, and more persistent bubbles when shaken with water than the untreated glyc. I was able to approximate the effect by adding a very small amount (a few drops) of phosphoric acid (not enough to crack the mix) to untreated glycerine. Comments and Questions: I use the primitive, but effective single stage base method for making BD. The WVO I typically get is of very good quality. If the oil I get titrated above 3.5 or 4 (using KOH), I would probably go to the 2 stage acid/base process. This idea of treating WVO with the caustic glycerine co-product interests me because it may make the glycerine more compostable. A couple of years ago I used glycerin (pH = ~5.5) split from the mix, on my compost piles and found that it not only composted well, it seemed to increase temp and the rate of decomposition. I've been composting unsplit glycerine (pH = ~ 9) without problem, but am concerned about the pH of the glyc cocktail. I also have the impression (only the impression) that soaps in unsplit glyc. resist breakdown. The split glycerine dissolved well in water and did not clog my sprayer. The unsplit formed a goo (insoluble soaps??) that did clog the sprayer. Treating the WVO with glycerine might also be viewed as treating the glycerine with FFAs. If the glycerine contains less water-insoluble soaps, and is of lower pH, the process might be doubly beneficial i.e. lowering water and FFAs in WVO and improving the composting properties of the glycerine cocktail. Questions: (Take your pick) - FFAs are very weak acids. Is this why the WVO titration did not drop to zero? Would longer treatment or more glyc. cocktail be needed to further lower FFAs? - A while back it was suggested that I add a small amount of phosphoric acid to my first wash to help remove water insoluble soaps. Does decreasing pH increase the solubility of otherwise water insoluble soaps? - I didn't notice tallow in the WVO I loaded into the processor, but it was clearly evident in the settled mix after treatment; same temp as the original WVO was. Any explanation? (Could be I just didn't see it) - The odor of the glycerine was distinctly less offensive after treatment. I suspect there was less methanol present. The temp of the mix never even reached 80F (27C). I can't imagine that it was used to form methyl esters. Is the presumed missing methanol now dissolved in the WVO (90 L WVO vs 9 L of glycerine). Any other reason for the change in odor? My this has become quite wordy. Sorry 'bout that Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080319/8ca1819b/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
Kirk, My point: The reporters on the video said the article(s) say mercury is good for you. I could not find anything in the article(s) cited that said such a thing. Nor any mention of improved behavior and mental performance. Although the reporter mentioned two articles in the journal Pediatrics (Feb 1, 08) relating to mercury in vaccines, I only found one article in the journal relating to mercury in vaccines ( Mercury Levels in Newborn and Infants After Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines). I could not find anything in the article to justify the title of the Video: Mercury is Good For You. The researchers found that the injected ethyl mercury in thimerosal left the blood of infants faster than ingested methyl mercury did in adults No mention of improved behavior and mental performance. It did not seem that the researchers were making any claims at all that mercury was Good for You. (Methods and Conclusions were included in a previous post) I pointed out that the video stopped before the report was complete. There is an article in the same journal entitled: Etiological Classification of Attention_Deficit/Hyperactive Disorder (Pediatrics; Feb 1, 2008; pp. 358 -365) that relates to (but does not specifically say anything about) behavior and mental performance, however it does not mention mercury or vaccines. It includes the observation that number of environmental factors are associated with increased risk of ADHD. These include (among other things) viral infections to the mother during the third trimester, to the newborn, and to the child during early childhood. Since some of the viral diseases mentioned (ex measles and influenza) can be vaccinated against, is it possible that the news reporters drew their own conclusions from the article. (I'm fishing here) Since viral diseases are linked to ADHD, could prevention of the viral diseases lead to improved behavior and mental performance By extension, if vaccines against these viral diseases contain mercury could one twist this to say that the vaccines (and mercury in them) can improve behavior and mental performance. Have you read the article in the journal Pediatrics? When you say Mercury is good for you - yes that's what they said you are quoting the reporters, not the researchers. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said Are you saying may be associated with improved behavior and mental performance could be construed as they are saying it is bad for you? Are you hung up on hearing the literal verbage good for you? Does it seem reasonable improved behavior and mental performance means it is good for you? Do people take supplements on the promise they will improve themselves. Whats your point Thomas? What do you get from improved behavior and mental performance -good or bad, which is it? Kirk Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, Although I heard at the end of the video that there were two studies in the recent (Feb 1, 2008) journal Pediatrics regarding mercury in vaccines and that mercury from vaccines may be associated with improved behavior and mental performance, I could not find a second article in the Feb 1 2008 Pediatrics dealing with mercury in vaccines. I have not been able to find anything in the journal saying mercury is good for you. Mercury is cumulative and VERY toxic. Agreed These doctors are as bad as the dentists. I haven't found any Doctor who says mercury is good for you. The TV reporter seemed to be saying researchers did say it, but I couldn't find it in the journal that was referred to. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said said it may improve mental performance. If it improves you then it is good for you. Mercury is cumulative and VERY toxic. These doctors are as bad as the dentists. They CANT admit it is bad. The liability is enormous, makes tobacco look like chump change. Kirk Thomas Kelly wrote: Thanks Doug, I followed your suggestion. the video did run. Is it only 38 seconds? It seemed to end in the middle of the report. From abstract of the article Mercury Levels in Newborn and Infants After Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines published in Pediatrics 2/1/08: METHODS. Blood, stool, and urine samples were obtained before vaccination and 12 hours to 30 days after vaccination from 216 healthy children CONCLUSIONS. The blood half-life of intramuscular ethyl mercury from thimerosal in vaccines in infants is substantially shorter than that of oral methyl mercury in adults
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
was the story pro vaccine containing mercury - yes or no. Kirk If you are referring to the news story in the video, I couldn't tell. It ended abruptly after 38 seconds Did you read the article in the journal that was cited - yes or no Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said was the story pro vaccine containing mercury - yes or no. Kirk Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, My point: The reporters on the video said the article(s) say mercury is good for you. I could not find anything in the article(s) cited that said such a thing. Nor any mention of improved behavior and mental performance. Although the reporter mentioned two articles in the journal Pediatrics (Feb 1, 08) relating to mercury in vaccines, I only found one article in the journal relating to mercury in vaccines ( Mercury Levels in Newborn and Infants After Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines). I could not find anything in the article to justify the title of the Video: Mercury is Good For You. The researchers found that the injected ethyl mercury in thimerosal left the blood of infants faster than ingested methyl mercury did in adults No mention of improved behavior and mental performance. It did not seem that the researchers were making any claims at all that mercury was Good for You. (Methods and Conclusions were included in a previous post) I pointed out that the video stopped before the report was complete. There is an article in the same journal entitled: Etiological Classification of Attention_Deficit/Hyperactive Disorder (Pediatrics; Feb 1, 2008; pp. 358 -365) that relates to (but does not specifically say anything about) behavior and mental performance, however it does not mention mercury or vaccines. It includes the observation that number of environmental factors are associated with increased risk of ADHD. These include (among other things) viral infections to the mother during the third trimester, to the newborn, and to the child during early childhood. Since some of the viral diseases mentioned (ex measles and influenza) can be vaccinated against, is it possible that the news reporters drew their own conclusions from the article. (I'm fishing here) Since viral diseases are linked to ADHD, could prevention of the viral diseases lead to improved behavior and mental performance By extension, if vaccines against these viral diseases contain mercury could one twist this to say that the vaccines (and mercury in them) can improve behavior and mental performance. Have you read the article in the journal Pediatrics? When you say Mercury is good for you - yes that's what they said you are quoting the reporters, not the researchers. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said Are you saying may be associated with improved behavior and mental performance could be construed as they are saying it is bad for you? Are you hung up on hearing the literal verbage good for you? Does it seem reasonable improved behavior and mental performance means it is good for you? Do people take supplements on the promise they will improve themselves. Whats your point Thomas? What do you get from improved behavior and mental performance -good or bad, which is it? Kirk - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080224/51682579/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Keith,
You wrote:
I fully agree with you.
But I think the toxic overload of food, air, water, soil, and
virtually everything we come into contact with is now so extreme that
the days are over when we could expect to find single causes of
health problems.
.{snip}
In the US there is no national
mechanism for tracking links between diseases and chemical exposures,
while institutional and corporate resistance to the Precautionary
Principle continues, though it's steadily being eroded.
Sorry, that's not a very happy picture. But, as you say, it is
possible for individuals to act - essential rather, no matter how
discouraging the odds may seem.
The actions of the individual, no matter how seemingly insignificant,
give strength to the individual, and I suspect, to a growing movement. There
are many things about which I don't know what to do. There are others where
the choice is clear. Food: grow your own; grow it right; buy locally from
those who grow it right. Fuel/energy: use less; make your own; support
sustainable sources. (others) Each act seems to deflect one back to a course
in which other choices become clear.
I'm still trying to work my way through the whole vaccination dilemna.
I just returned from a visit to the Emergency Room at my local hospital. My
wife put the needle from her sewing machine right through her finger
...Ooouch! (She was patching a favorite shirt of mine.)
Records indicated that she was due for another tetanus shot. This one
also contained pertusis (whooping cough) vaccine. I asked why there was
pertusis vaccine in with the tetanus vaccine?
We had a nice chat with the Doctor regarding increased incidence of
pertusis in adults who had been vaccinated as children. When I asked if
vaccinated adults had less severe cases than unvaccinated adults he
indicated that it was unclear. The severity of the illness varies from
individual to individual. He said there was now better diagnosis and
treatment, making it less of a life-threatening event for otherwise healthy
individuals. It was still to be avoided and that the vaccine was effective
in doing that. Hopefully the new, improved one would last a lifetime.
The attending Nurse had spent years in pediatrics and had experience
with young children who had contracted pertusis. She indicated that although
she knew of vaccinated children contracting it, it was invariably less
severe than cases involving unvaccinated children, which she described as
being definitely life-threatening.
I have a few more years left on my current tetanus shot time to
learn more about vaccination in general and specifically if the
tetanus/pertusis mix contain mercury, aluminum, or anything else I've been
trying to say No Thanks to.
Best to You. Eat Good Food . Stay Healthy,
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Hi Tom
Below...
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the info.
I don't think there is a question that environmental contaminants
are
having a harmful effect on us. It is also clear that the most susceptible
to
the harmful effects are the smallest, youngest, who literally have no say
in
what they are exposed to.
In the area of US that I live in (New York State) warnings come with
fishing licenses regarding eating fish due to accumulated toxins. Pregnant
women are advised not to consume certain species from particular bodies of
water. The very reservoirs that were created to supply good clean water to
New York City have warnings regarding mercury. Much of the mercury
present is due to the way the reservoirs were formed - flooding lush
valleys.
Mercury emitted from coal-fired power plants travels across state
lines
and comes down in our rain.
It is possible for individuals to act. We can make choices. I am
able
to purchase electricity that is from 100% renewable sources. My family is
still exposed to the mercury drifting 100's of miles form distant power
plants. We can shield ourselves and our families, at least to some extent
from mercury-rich foods. I love tuna; I don't eat it.
There are other more difficult choices. Should a person with amalgam
fillings have them removed or leave them in place?
Should a parent refuse to have their child vaccinated if the vaccine
contains mercury? ... aluminum ?
Should a parent refuse all vaccines for their children?
Note: I am a firm believer that vaccination should be a choice; not
mandated.
I'm thankful that I don't have to decide about vaccinations for my
children. They had them years ago when the question of doubt had not yet
visited me.
I don't get flu vaccines even though I know what the flu is like. I
wonder what I'll do when it's time for my next
Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Kirk,
You can treat it with antibiotics should she contract tetanus. The odds
are very slim. Tetanus is associated with rusty nails and barnyards.
Clostridium tetani, is a common soil microbe (related to Clostridium
botulinum of botulism poisoning fame). C. tetani causes tetanus. The disease
is most common in puncture wounds, (ex rusty nails) but also common in
wounds resulting in dead tissue ... crushing wounds and burns (like C.
botulinum, C. tetani is active in anaerobic conditions), but can occur in
any wound in which the skin is broken.
Overall, 25-50% of people with generalized tetanus will die
www.emedicinehealth.com/tetanus/article_em.htm p. 10
Not something to be taken lightly.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
You can treat it with antibiotics should she contract tetanus. The odds
are very slim. Tetanus is associated with rusty nails and barnyards.
In the US the doctors routinely innoculate although the Merck vetinary
manual clearly states there has NEVER been a case of tetanus in the
rockies. Something to do with subzero temperatures I suspect
Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Keith,
You wrote:
I fully agree with you.
But I think the toxic overload of food, air, water, soil, and
virtually everything we come into contact with is now so extreme that
the days are over when we could expect to find single causes of
health problems.
..{snip}
In the US there is no national
mechanism for tracking links between diseases and chemical exposures,
while institutional and corporate resistance to the Precautionary
Principle continues, though it's steadily being eroded.
Sorry, that's not a very happy picture. But, as you say, it is
possible for individuals to act - essential rather, no matter how
discouraging the odds may seem.
The actions of the individual, no matter how seemingly insignificant,
give strength to the individual, and I suspect, to a growing movement.
There
are many things about which I don't know what to do. There are others
where
the choice is clear. Food: grow your own; grow it right; buy locally from
those who grow it right. Fuel/energy: use less; make your own; support
sustainable sources. (others) Each act seems to deflect one back to a
course
in which other choices become clear.
I'm still trying to work my way through the whole vaccination dilemna.
I just returned from a visit to the Emergency Room at my local hospital.
My
wife put the needle from her sewing machine right through her finger
Ooouch! (She was patching a favorite shirt of mine.)
Records indicated that she was due for another tetanus shot. This one
also contained pertusis (whooping cough) vaccine. I asked why there was
pertusis vaccine in with the tetanus vaccine?
We had a nice chat with the Doctor regarding increased incidence of
pertusis in adults who had been vaccinated as children. When I asked if
vaccinated adults had less severe cases than unvaccinated adults he
indicated that it was unclear. The severity of the illness varies from
individual to individual. He said there was now better diagnosis and
treatment, making it less of a life-threatening event for otherwise
healthy
individuals. It was still to be avoided and that the vaccine was effective
in doing that. Hopefully the new, improved one would last a lifetime.
The attending Nurse had spent years in pediatrics and had experience
with young children who had contracted pertusis. She indicated that
although
she knew of vaccinated children contracting it, it was invariably less
severe than cases involving unvaccinated children, which she described as
being definitely life-threatening.
I have a few more years left on my current tetanus shot time to
learn more about vaccination in general and specifically if the
tetanus/pertusis mix contain mercury, aluminum, or anything else I've been
trying to say No Thanks to.
Best to You. Eat Good Food . Stay Healthy,
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Hi Tom
Below...
Hi Keith,
Thanks for the info.
I don't think there is a question that environmental contaminants
are
having a harmful effect on us. It is also clear that the most susceptible
to
the harmful effects are the smallest, youngest, who literally have no say
in
what they are exposed to.
In the area of US that I live in (New York State) warnings come with
fishing licenses regarding eating fish due to accumulated toxins.
Pregnant
women are advised not to consume certain species from particular bodies
of
water. The very reservoirs that were created to supply good clean water
to
New
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
Kirk, Unfortunately the video did not run. Message: We're sorry, this video is no longer available. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 2:48 PM Subject: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said Anything for a buck Kirk - Sometimes I think I've seen it all. Then I watch US TV. A medical journal in the US has come out with the criminally fraudulent claim that...get thismercury is GOOD for the brains of young children. This is where we're at now. Drug companies can not only buy garbage research from corrupt scientists, they can get medical journals to publish it and the news media to report it uncritically. See it with you own eyes. I could not make this one up if I tried: http://www.brassche cktv.com/ page/280. html - Brasscheck P.S. Share this video with friends and colleagues so they can see for themselves how DANGEROUS and UNRELIABLE the medical profession has become. Do your own homework. Rely on your own common sense. Your health is too important to leave up to the whims of a bunch of white collar criminals. - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080223/a37bcf41/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
Thanks Doug, I followed your suggestion. the video did run. Is it only 38 seconds? It seemed to end in the middle of the report. From abstract of the article Mercury Levels in Newborn and Infants After Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines published in Pediatrics 2/1/08: METHODS. Blood, stool, and urine samples were obtained before vaccination and 12 hours to 30 days after vaccination from 216 healthy children CONCLUSIONS. The blood half-life of intramuscular ethyl mercury from thimerosal in vaccines in infants is substantially shorter than that of oral methyl mercury in adults. Increased mercury levels were detected in stools after vaccination, suggesting that the gastrointestinal tract is involved in ethyl mercury elimination. While blood levels of ethyl mercury (from thimerosal in the vaccines) returned to normal in 30 days and Increased mercury levels were detected in stools after vaccination, the question remains: did the ethyl mercury in stool and urine account for all that was administered? Was some stored in body tissue? This does not sound like a landmark study on safety of mercury in vaccines. It certainly does not suggest that it is good for you. Maybe a desperate attempt at damage control: A pediatric journal has released details of a vaccine study earlier than usual to counter possible negative publicity from a new ABC television pilot set to air Thursday in which a lawyer argues that a flu vaccine caused a child's autism. ABA Journal Law News Now Jan 30, 2008 I didn't find anything suggesting mercury from vaccines is good for you. The video did stop before the report ended. Tom - Original Message - From: doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said Thomas Kelly wrote: Kirk, Unfortunately the video did not run. Message: We're sorry, this video is no longer available. Tom Unfortunately the link was somehow cut up, with spaces... http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/280.html see if that works... doug swanson -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said
Kirk, Although I heard at the end of the video that there were two studies in the recent (Feb 1, 2008) journal Pediatrics regarding mercury in vaccines and that mercury from vaccines may be associated with improved behavior and mental performance, I could not find a second article in the Feb 1 2008 Pediatrics dealing with mercury in vaccines. I have not been able to find anything in the journal saying mercury is good for you. Mercury is cumulative and VERY toxic. Agreed These doctors are as bad as the dentists. I haven't found any Doctor who says mercury is good for you. The TV reporter seemed to be saying researchers did say it, but I couldn't find it in the journal that was referred to. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said said it may improve mental performance. If it improves you then it is good for you. Mercury is cumulative and VERY toxic. These doctors are as bad as the dentists. They CANT admit it is bad. The liability is enormous, makes tobacco look like chump change. Kirk Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Doug, I followed your suggestion. the video did run. Is it only 38 seconds? It seemed to end in the middle of the report. From abstract of the article Mercury Levels in Newborn and Infants After Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines published in Pediatrics 2/1/08: METHODS. Blood, stool, and urine samples were obtained before vaccination and 12 hours to 30 days after vaccination from 216 healthy children CONCLUSIONS. The blood half-life of intramuscular ethyl mercury from thimerosal in vaccines in infants is substantially shorter than that of oral methyl mercury in adults. Increased mercury levels were detected in stools after vaccination, suggesting that the gastrointestinal tract is involved in ethyl mercury elimination. While blood levels of ethyl mercury (from thimerosal in the vaccines) returned to normal in 30 days and Increased mercury levels were detected in stools after vaccination, the question remains: did the ethyl mercury in stool and urine account for all that was administered? Was some stored in body tissue? This does not sound like a landmark study on safety of mercury in vaccines. It certainly does not suggest that it is good for you. Maybe a desperate attempt at damage control: A pediatric journal has released details of a vaccine study earlier than usual to counter possible negative publicity from a new ABC television pilot set to air Thursday in which a lawyer argues that a flu vaccine caused a child's autism. ABA Journal Law News Now Jan 30, 2008 I didn't find anything suggesting mercury from vaccines is good for you. The video did stop before the report ended. Tom - Original Message - From: doug swanson To: Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 4:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercury is good for you - yes, thats what they said Thomas Kelly wrote: Kirk, Unfortunately the video did not run. Message: We're sorry, this video is no longer available. Tom Unfortunately the link was somehow cut up, with spaces... http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/280.html see if that works... doug swanson -- Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080223/db77fa1f/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever
Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
daddy was censured when VP for unlawful lobying for a pharma co. That company was Eli Lilley. At that time the largest single stockholder was the Quayle family. Recall that name? Jenner did not come up with the idea. The wife of the British ambassador to Turkey brought tales of the practice to Jenner. Just another example of pharma misinformation. My grandsone had no shots. He has never even had an ear infection. On the local level our school nurse was in the local paper amazed that the children in the outbreak of chicken pox had their innoculations - where is the conferred immunity? Germany stopped innoculating under 12 months of age. SIDS fell by 90 %. If you cant find this info on the web you arent looking. Kirk Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, It's not my intention to argue for or against vaccination of children. I am interested in the possible relationship between vaccination and the rise in certain diseases/disorders. Perhaps you can clarify a few points: This is not a rare occurrence. Epidemics in fully vaccinated populations are a rule rather than an exception... Dr. Viera Scheibner, Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viera_Scheibner I did not find this quote at the site you referred to. The DEATH RATE from smallpox was actually higher among those who had been vaccinated. Who are you quoting? Where can I find more info. Example: If 50% of the unvaccinated population contracts smallpox, and 50% of these people die from it = 25% of the unvaccinated pop dies from smallpox If 1% of the vaccinated pop. contracts smallpox and 51% of these people die from it = 0.5% of the vaccinated pop die from smallpox. This would not be an argument against vaccination. It is a well documented fact that the incidence and mortality from infectious diseases fell by 90% well before any vaccine was even introduced... So [the U.S.] mandated vaccination and it resulted in a three-fold increase in whooping cough... Again, where did this quote come from? I would like to know if this (infectious diseases fell by 90%)corresponded to the time period in which Joseph Lister associated bacteria with infection with, and then Robert Koch demonstrated that germs can cause disease. Improved sanitary methods/aseptic procedures result in dramatic decreases in infectious disease even today. Given a choice between one or the other, I would go for improving sanitary conditions over vaccination. In itself, that would not argue against vaccination. In the March 4, 1977 issue of Science Jonas and Darrell Salk warn, Live virus vaccines against influenza or poliomyelitis may in each instance produce the disease it intended to prevent. The live virus against measles and mumps may produce such side effects as encephalitis (brain damage). from http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?p=534 This is taken from: Control of influenza and poliomyelitis with killed virus vaccines J Salk and D Salk Science 4 March 1977: 834-847. The article referred to does, in fact, warn against the use of live viruses in vaccines. I don't think any vaccines today use live viruses. It also, in part, explains some of the problems Dr. Howenstine refers to in his 2003 article Why You Should Avoid Taking Vaccines http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?p=534 Many of the problems cited occurred in the late 1800's and first half of the 1900's when live viruses were injected to confer passive immunity. I think many of us are concerned with possible links between multiple vaccinations' tricking of our immune system and the rise in asthma, for example; with the addition of mercury and/or aluminum to vaccines and the rise in autism and attention deficit disorders. It has been difficult to separate the role vaccines play in the dramatic rise in many diseases/disorders from other factors: mercury and other heavy metal contaminants in food and water, pesticides, artificial colorings, flavorings, and other food additives. Any help in this regard is appreciated. I don't see any benefit to adding heavy metals, pesticides and other carcinogens to my food and water. I am not convinced that vaccinations are without benefit. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating [and remembering]: The only safe vaccine is one that is never used. Dr. James R. Shannon, former Director, National Institute of Health Live virus vaccines against influenza or poliomyelitis may in each instance produce the disease it intended to prevent. The live virus against measles and mumps may produce such side effects as encephalitis (brain damage) Jonas and Darrell Salk, 1977 The DEATH RATE from smallpox was actually higher
Re: [Biofuel] some links re vaccines
Thanks Kirk, I'm very concerned about mercury exposure, especially to our little ones. I'll do my reading. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: [Biofuel] some links re vaccines LINKS VACCINES ALSO MERCURY Parents Requesting Open Vaccine Education PROVE - Info vaccine mandates, Conflicts of interest; Mercury/Thimerosal; Homeland Security; Your Rights the Law; Vaccines Diseases; Reactions; other Resources; more http://vaccineinfo.net/ VIC (Vaccine Injured Children) Flu Shot Brew; News Report on Dangers of Vaccines; Autism: To Vaccinate Or Not to Vaccinate; Pharma admiting injecting cancer via vaccines; Video on HPV (Cervical Cancer Vaccine) for girls; How Mercury Causes Brain Neuron Degeneration; McCarthy's Complete Interview Take the Crap Out; Four Presentation Expose on the Dangers of Vaccinations; Interview with April Renée and Joyce Riley (June 8th, 2007) - on www.ThePowerHour.com www.vacinfo.org VIDEO -- Merk drug company vaccines admits injecting cancer viruses -- This stunning censored interview conducted by medical historian Edward Shorter for WGBH public television (Boston) and Blackwell Science was cut from The Health Century due to its huge liability--the admission that Merck drug company vaccines have traditionally been injecting cancer viruses (SV40 and others) in people worldwide. --This segment of In Lies We Trust: The CIA, Hollywood Bioterrorism, produced and freely contributed by consumer protector and public health expert, Dr. Leonard Horowitz, features the world's leading vaccine expert, Dr. Maurice Hilleman, who explains why Merck's vaccines have spread AIDS, leukemia, and other horrific plagues worldwide. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=327_1195303011 Making an Informed Decision vaccine ingredients more http://poisonevercure.150m.com/ingredients.htm Does systematic Vaccination give health to people? http://www.whale.to/a/petek.html VACCINATIONS: PART I - MEDICAL RESEARCH ON SIDS AND EPIDEMICS by: Scheibner, Viera, Ph.D. At this point, the Crib Death Management Center pediatricians stopped sending parents to get our monitor. They didn't want parents to know that vaccines were stressing their children. Until that time, I was actually pro-vaccination. http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990705002005 VACCINATION - THE HIDDEN FACTS CHAPTER 11: WHY VACCINATION CONTINUES - The propaganda in favour of immunization has won the minds of the masses and has influenced medical thinking, and government and international measures, relating to disease control. http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020132sinclair/vaccinaion.htm Vaccination Myths Contradictions between Medical Science and Immunization Policy http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html VACCINATION: THE HIDDEN FACTS http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020132sinclair/vaccinaion.htm VRAN - Vaccination Risk Awareness Network Provides more information about risks potential side-effects of vaccines; finds support if you or someone you know may have suffered adverse reactions from vaccines includng legal assistance, advice laws; plus fosters a multi-disciplinary approach to child and family health. Very informative site on the various vaccines and terrific URLs for several countries. http://www.vran.org/ ASSOCIATION FOR VACCINE DAMAGED CHILDREN Winnipeg, MB, Canada - PHONE: 1-204-895-9192 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://There is no URL Another Poison Pediatricians Inject in Babies Aluminum Hydroxide by Dr Mark Sircus More Graphs references. http://www.imva.info/med_poison_babies.shtml Childhood Immunizations by Dr Mark Sircus Also very enlightening graphs. You will also find some sites in the references. http://www.imva.info/vaccines.shtml Cry Of The Heart Free E-Book on the link between vaccinations, mercury and Autism (including neurological damage) - by Dr. Mark Sircus - This is a must read; you will never forget it. Look for more from Dr Sircus. http://www.trans4mind.com/Cry_of_the_Heart.pdf Excerpt from 'Cry of the Heart' By Mark Sircus. Among other things you will find in here many stories of families whose children were vaccinated. http://www.trans4mind.com/counterpoint/sircus1.shtml Multiple Vaccinations by Dr Mark Sircus http://www.imva.info/essay_multiplevac.shtml GRAPHICAL EVIDENCE SHOWS VACCINES DIDN'T SAVE US http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web1.html HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web2.html DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS CONDEMN VACCINATION http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web3.html WHY VACCINES ARE INEFFECTIVE Those whom are familiar with toxins will understand this too well. http://www.vaccinationdebate.com/web4.html WHY VACCINES ARE HARMFUL unavoidably unsafe products that are quite
Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Kirk, It's not my intention to argue for or against vaccination of children. I am interested in the possible relationship between vaccination and the rise in certain diseases/disorders. Perhaps you can clarify a few points: This is not a rare occurrence. Epidemics in fully vaccinated populations are a rule rather than an exception... Dr. Viera Scheibner, Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viera_Scheibner I did not find this quote at the site you referred to. The DEATH RATE from smallpox was actually higher among those who had been vaccinated. Who are you quoting? Where can I find more info. Example: If 50% of the unvaccinated population contracts smallpox, and 50% of these people die from it = 25% of the unvaccinated pop dies from smallpox If 1% of the vaccinated pop. contracts smallpox and 51% of these people die from it = 0.5% of the vaccinated pop die from smallpox. This would not be an argument against vaccination. It is a well documented fact that the incidence and mortality from infectious diseases fell by 90% well before any vaccine was even introduced... So [the U.S.] mandated vaccination and it resulted in a three-fold increase in whooping cough... Again, where did this quote come from? I would like to know if this (infectious diseases fell by 90%)corresponded to the time period in which Joseph Lister associated bacteria with infection with, and then Robert Koch demonstrated that germs can cause disease. Improved sanitary methods/aseptic procedures result in dramatic decreases in infectious disease even today. Given a choice between one or the other, I would go for improving sanitary conditions over vaccination. In itself, that would not argue against vaccination. In the March 4, 1977 issue of Science Jonas and Darrell Salk warn, Live virus vaccines against influenza or poliomyelitis may in each instance produce the disease it intended to prevent. The live virus against measles and mumps may produce such side effects as encephalitis (brain damage). from http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?p=534 This is taken from: Control of influenza and poliomyelitis with killed virus vaccines J Salk and D Salk Science 4 March 1977: 834-847. The article referred to does, in fact, warn against the use of live viruses in vaccines. I don't think any vaccines today use live viruses. It also, in part, explains some of the problems Dr. Howenstine refers to in his 2003 article Why You Should Avoid Taking Vaccines http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?p=534 Many of the problems cited occurred in the late 1800's and first half of the 1900's when live viruses were injected to confer passive immunity. I think many of us are concerned with possible links between multiple vaccinations' tricking of our immune system and the rise in asthma, for example; with the addition of mercury and/or aluminum to vaccines and the rise in autism and attention deficit disorders. It has been difficult to separate the role vaccines play in the dramatic rise in many diseases/disorders from other factors: mercury and other heavy metal contaminants in food and water, pesticides, artificial colorings, flavorings, and other food additives. Any help in this regard is appreciated. I don't see any benefit to adding heavy metals, pesticides and other carcinogens to my food and water. I am not convinced that vaccinations are without benefit. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating [and remembering]: The only safe vaccine is one that is never used. Dr. James R. Shannon, former Director, National Institute of Health Live virus vaccines against influenza or poliomyelitis may in each instance produce the disease it intended to prevent. The live virus against measles and mumps may produce such side effects as encephalitis (brain damage) Jonas and Darrell Salk, 1977 The DEATH RATE from smallpox was actually higher among those who had been vaccinated. It took over three years of research before we looked at each other and said 'Vaccines are killing babies'. It is a well documented fact that the incidence and mortality from infectious diseases fell by 90% well before any vaccine was even introduced... So [the U.S.] mandated vaccination and it resulted in a three-fold increase in whooping cough... This is not a rare occurrence. Epidemics in fully vaccinated populations are a rule rather than an exception... Dr. Viera Scheibner, Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viera_Scheibner Do you still believe vaccines are safe?
Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Thanks Ian, I've heard of polio occurring in grandparents with compromised immune systems (due to chemotherapy). Apparently they contracted the virus while changing diapers on their recently vaccinated grandchildren. This suggests that the polio vaccine does contain live viruses. Tom - Original Message - From: Ian Appleby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating *The article referred to does, in fact, warn against the use of live viruses in vaccines. I don't think any vaccines today use live viruses. * Tom, to the best of my knowledge (which, granted, may be one or two years out-of-date, but no more - my daughter is three...), both the UK and the Russian Federation still use a live polio vaccine. I have relatives in both countries, one of whom contracted polio following the vaccination. I'm aware that such anecdotal evidence comes a poor second to a solid reference, but it's not my specialist subject, and so I can't be more rigorous just now. I hope that gives you a starting point, however. Best wishes Ian -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080221/0bede17d/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating
Kirk, As I stated, my interest is mainly in regard to increased rates of autism, and attention deficit disorders as relating to mercury and/or aluminum in vaccines, and to increased rates of asthma, possibly due to tricking the immune system with multiple doses of vaccines. But: This is not a rare occurrence. Epidemics in fully vaccinated populations are a rule rather than an exception... and The DEATH RATE from smallpox was actually higher among those who had been vaccinated. Caught my attention. I wanted to know who is being quoted and where I can find the info. I don't think I suggested that passive immunity is as effective as active immunity. I certainly do not wish to defend the pharmaceutical industry. If you cant find this info on the web you arent looking. You can find just about anything you want on the web (or is it at Alice's Restaurant?). You can even learn how to make biodiesel the wrong way. Just go to infopop. You put quotation marks around statements in your post. I merely wanted to know who was being quoted and where I might find the quotes. One of your quotes had a reference, but I couldn't find the quote when I looked there. I had a case of the real deal flu a couple of years back. The thought of getting it again scares me; no joke. I refuse to get a flu vaccination. I have my reasons. Before I tell anyone else what to do in regard to vaccinations for themselves or their children I want to have solid information. If you can help, thanks. If not, thanks anyway. Tom - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaccine Quotes Worth Repeating Soil and Health library had the original Royal Medical Society debates re Jenner and the fraud starts there. He used grease from a horses hoof and that doesnt meet germ theory. The idea that cow pox and small pox are related enough to confer immunity may be a little more palatable but still incorrect. The last pertussis outbreak in Washington state saw 80% of the hospitalized childen with thei vaccine and all boosters. Where was the conferred immunity? The US Army smallpox eradication effort in the Phillipines saw the next year with most of the new cases where they had already innoculated. The smallpox effort in England with Jenner saw a 10 fold death increase the next year. We routinely innoculate newborns with Hepatitis B vaccine yet the literature says infants have an immature immune system and are incapable of forming an immune response. Advocates point to the polio campaign in the US and show the curve with its steep decline in cases as proof. They neglect to show the curve for 3 years prior where the infection rate was declining at the same step rate. We know that the SV40 is still in polio even after 3 times they supposedly removed it. We know SV40 in humans causes brain and kidney cancer. We know there is more SV40 virus in polio vaccine than polio virus. Only an investor in such things would advocate it. The Bush family is heavily invested in vaccines. Bush gave vaccine companies immunity from liability. That is criminal. His daddy was censured when VP for unlawful lobying for a pharma co. That company was Eli Lilley. At that time the largest single stockholder was the Quayle family. Recall that name? Jenner did not come up with the idea. The wife of the British ambassador to Turkey brought tales of the practice to Jenner. Just another example of pharma misinformation. My grandsone had no shots. He has never even had an ear infection. On the local level our school nurse was in the local paper amazed that the children in the outbreak of chicken pox had their innoculations - where is the conferred immunity? Germany stopped innoculating under 12 months of age. SIDS fell by 90 %. If you cant find this info on the web you arent looking. Kirk Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kirk, It's not my intention to argue for or against vaccination of children. I am interested in the possible relationship between vaccination and the rise in certain diseases/disorders. Perhaps you can clarify a few points: This is not a rare occurrence. Epidemics in fully vaccinated populations are a rule rather than an exception... Dr. Viera Scheibner, Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viera_Scheibner I did not find this quote at the site you referred to. The DEATH RATE from smallpox was actually higher among those who had been vaccinated. Who are you quoting? Where can I find more info. Example: If 50% of the unvaccinated population contracts smallpox, and 50% of these people die from it = 25% of the unvaccinated pop dies from smallpox If 1% of the vaccinated pop. contracts smallpox and 51% of these people die from
Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer?
Thanks Mikey There's a saying: The devil is in the details. The proposed development is anything but green. There is a concerted effort by the developers to greenwash it. I'm attempting to grasp details that relate to the greenwashing. Your responses, and others , have been a great help. Tom - Original Message - From: Mikey Sklar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Hi Tom, I am going to try and address all three of your points in one comment. Batteryless PV setups are going to be the PV setup of choice in almost all instances for new homes built by a developer. The grid-tie systems can be installed in any home that has a local power company that willing to do buy back, roll back, or net meetering. Note that small towns are exempt normally from buying back power because there is often a coop or municpality procidng the power, not a real company. Finally, nearky all homes can take solar panels somewhere. If the roof is not ideal due to shade or orientation theb pole mounts, trackers, or ground mounts can be used. The term PV ready is silky as this list surmised early on. You can take either view that all homes are PV ready or none are. The truth is that some installs are just easier than others. On Feb 9, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikey, Zeke, Thanks for the replies. The design changes required to make a house PV ready seems to be related to whether the PV system is designed to be off-grid capable or not. Off-grid requires batteries, inverter(s), charge controllers, grounding considerations, etc. that grid-tie batteryless PV systems do not need. 1. Would it be fair to suspect that a developer who is building 2nd homes (in a golf community) would lean towards batteryless PV ready houses? (I'll call and ask them.) 2. Is it fair to say that batteryless PV ready houses require little more than the ability to mount PV panels with southern exposure (in northern US). Given two, otherwise identical houses, one could be described as PV ready simply because it is un-shaded and provides for southern exposure. 3. Wouldn't many houses be batteryless PV ready in any above ground development if the total number of houses approaches 1000? Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Mikey is right -- a battery based PV system is MUCH harder than a batteryless one. Our crew can usually complete a batteryless 5kW system in one day. A battery backup one... more like 3 or 4 days, plus a few more times for commissioning wierdities... and that's just to get it up and running the first time... Someone described it this way if you want to generate power from the sun, get a grid-tie batteryless PV system. If you want hobby, get a battery backup PV system. And if you want a full time job, get a small wind turbine. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel or Byproduct Powered Boiler
Will, I run my boiler (heat + domestic hot water) on 100% biodiesel. It is an oil-fired boiler. No conversion was necessary, just some minor adjustments. An oil-fired water heater might work well. Pre-heat the water via solar or compost heat as Fritz suggested to minimize fuel requirements. came across a product from Agsolutions that claims it can burn a mixture of product and byproduct, Last winter I split the glycerine mix using phosphoric acid (see JTF). - crude glycerine w excess methanol (compost) - potassium phosphate (fertilizer) - FFAs I blended the FFAs with biodiesel (product and coproduct?) and burned it in my boiler. It required a bit of preheat in order to have reliable starts. In splitting the mix, be sure to allow sufficient settling time and be careful not to include any glycerine with the FFA. Glycerine with coke up the nozzle on a boiler. I used 60-70%BD: 30-40%FFA Tom - Original Message - From: Will Kelleher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:38 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel or Byproduct Powered Boiler Hello everyone, I'm involved in a student run project to construct a 400 gallon batch reactor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. We cannot use electricity as a source for our reaction heat, so we have been looking for a product or byproduct fueled boiler to heat water that will pass through a heat exchanger to heat the oil. Does anyone have any recommendations? I came across a product from Agsolutions that claims it can burn a mixture of product and byproduct, the ideal solution for us, but their site does not provide very much information. I also read a few threads in the infopop forum that mention the hazards of burning byproduct. Is our goal feasible? Thanks, -- William Kelleher Sophomore, Electrical Engineering University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080210/94e4d2ae/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer?
Mikey, Zeke, Thanks for the replies. The design changes required to make a house PV ready seems to be related to whether the PV system is designed to be off-grid capable or not. Off-grid requires batteries, inverter(s), charge controllers, grounding considerations, etc. that grid-tie batteryless PV systems do not need. 1. Would it be fair to suspect that a developer who is building 2nd homes (in a golf community) would lean towards batteryless PV ready houses? (I'll call and ask them.) 2. Is it fair to say that batteryless PV ready houses require little more than the ability to mount PV panels with southern exposure (in northern US). Given two, otherwise identical houses, one could be described as PV ready simply because it is un-shaded and provides for southern exposure. 3. Wouldn't many houses be batteryless PV ready in any above ground development if the total number of houses approaches 1000? Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Mikey is right -- a battery based PV system is MUCH harder than a batteryless one. Our crew can usually complete a batteryless 5kW system in one day. A battery backup one... more like 3 or 4 days, plus a few more times for commissioning wierdities... and that's just to get it up and running the first time... Someone described it this way if you want to generate power from the sun, get a grid-tie batteryless PV system. If you want hobby, get a battery backup PV system. And if you want a full time job, get a small wind turbine. I currently have a batteryless system on my house which I haven't done more than look at the meter since installing it last spring. I will be adding a battery backup system with three different small wind turbines this spring hmmm, can anyone say masochist? Z On Feb 8, 2008 8:07 PM, Mikey Sklar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No house is PV ready. The installs are difficult. The inverters and batteries must be as close to the panels as possible to keep copper cable costs down and efficiency up.. I find that every 20' of distance adds another $300 for your typical home sized PV setup. Wet batteries will require ventilation for hydrogen. The batteries commonly used like L16's way in at 120-140lbs each. A decent array of 24 will not only cost $8,000, but will weigh in at 3000lbs. Thus being difficult to place in attics (due to weight). These batteries often need to be replaced every 7-10 years. I would want a easy way to move them around on the ground level. Inverters weigh about 100lbs each and a full PV install would have at least two for 220V power. This means a structural mounting area near the PV panels for the inverters will be required. The charge controller for the batteries is light, but will need to be mounted near the inverters as well. You will need a few junction boxes for breakers, lightening arrestors, and hookup connections between batteries , charge controller, and inverters. It ends up being a nice chunk of wall space. Grounding is tricky as well. The DC from the panels and the AC from the inverters needs their own grounding rods according to article 690 of the NEC code. This means the house needs to have a significant gauge copper wire for AC and DC systems run from the PV install area to outside the home. A modern green developer would probably skip the batteries or any sort of backup power (generator) and only offer grid tie. Grid tie can be much cheaper up front. I don't trust the power companies myself and stay away from it. On Feb 8, 2008, at 12:18 PM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mikey, So there are specific features that would make a house that is PV ready different from a non-PV ready house. - southern exposure (or ability to mount panels facing south) - conduit runs ready for thick gauge copper wire inside the house (hidden within walls?) - mounting area for inverter Would this be outside or inside near electrical panel? I just installed a 2kW PV setup and spent months building a R=50 battery dome. It would have been nice if my home were ready to take off the shelf panels with a little space set aside for the gear. In a PV ready house would the batteries be easily-accessible, indoors? I would like a clear picture of how a PV ready house would be different in design/construction so that I formulate questions, and possibly even answer questions relating to it. Thanks for your input, Tom - Original Message - From: Mikey Sklar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? My guess on PV
Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer?
Paul, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I am presently downloading the first of 19 chapters (1500 pages total) of the revised Draft Environmental Impact Study (DEIS) relating to the development. I have just over a month to read, digest and pass along input/comments regarding the project, to my town planning board. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Tom, You might want to spend some time on the US Green Building Council (USGBC) website at usgbc.org On this page there is a presentation about green homes: http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=1720 Also, here is a presentation that explains exactly what 'solar ready' actually means: www.*solar*2006.org/presentations/forums/f07-kreischer.pdf Hope that is helpful, Paul On Feb 8, 2008 9:50 AM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I recently attended a presentation by a developer. The presenter used the words green and sustainable in reference to the development. I would appreciate a bit of help. What does it mean when one says that many of the houses will be photo-voltaic ready? I understand that it suggests that they will support the addition of PV cells. Is there anything specifically different about the construction of PV ready houses that makes them different from other houses? Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080208/19db69cd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Peace, PC He's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switch Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert Einstein -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080208/8d16ad18/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer?
Fritz, i believe thats a little eyewash You saw right through it. This particular development is not green. The developer is attempting to greenwash it. Thanks for helping me understand this particular detail. Tom - Original Message - From: Fritz Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Hi Tom, i believe thats a little eyewash. a house could be ready for photovoltaic technologie only in orienting an inclining roof-tops to the south,so there is no real readynes or so.Nothing to be exidet about! Grenn building starts with the selection of the least energieconsuming components,least toxidity of materials used and so on.An other factor woud be energie consumption of the new house as far as heating or cooling concerns!Architecture is a third factor as well selection of landsites! To achieve real green and sustainable construction,buildingcodes and techniques have to be completly reshuffled Fritz - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 9:50 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Hello All, I recently attended a presentation by a developer. The presenter used the words green and sustainable in reference to the development. I would appreciate a bit of help. What does it mean when one says that many of the houses will be photo-voltaic ready? I understand that it suggests that they will support the addition of PV cells. Is there anything specifically different about the construction of PV ready houses that makes them different from other houses? Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080208/19db69cd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080208/1d905c19/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer?
Thanks Bruno Tom - Original Message - From: Bruno M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? The solar ready link was screwed up; here is the working link: www.solar2006.org/presentations/forums/f07-kreischer.pdf from this site: www.solar2006.org/ grts Bruno M. ~ At 18:13 8/02/2008, you wrote: Paul, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I am presently downloading the first of 19 chapters (1500 pages total) of the revised Draft Environmental Impact Study (DEIS) relating to the development. I have just over a month to read, digest and pass along input/comments regarding the project, to my town planning board. Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Tom, You might want to spend some time on the US Green Building Council (USGBC) website at www.usgbc.org On this page there is a presentation about green homes: www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=1720 Also, here is a presentation that explains exactly what 'solar ready' actually means: www.*solar*2006.org/presentations/forums/f07-kreischer.pdf Hope that is helpful, Paul On Feb 8, 2008 9:50 AM, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, I recently attended a presentation by a developer. The presenter used the words green and sustainable in reference to the development. I would appreciate a bit of help. What does it mean when one says that many of the houses will be photo-voltaic ready? I understand that it suggests that they will support the addition of PV cells. Is there anything specifically different about the construction of PV ready houses that makes them different from other houses? Tom == -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 7/02/2008 11:17 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer?
Dawie, The system does not need to be embedded in the building's electrical system in any way: it just sits next to the main DB, AC comes in and AC goes out. When I researched the proposed supplier I found that PV is their core business. So, pretty much any house is PV ready. Perhaps they mean that wireways have been allowed, and/or that there is a patch of roof that is oriented suitably. So pretty much any house is PV ready Thanks for the reply However: I am always wary of any development that claims to be green and sustainable if it is a residential suburban development. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the proposed green project. I fear you'll either die laughing or crying. Warning: If you are weak of heart read no further. One thousand Second homes (week-end/vacation homes) in rural farm country ~100 miles from a major city. I haven't been able to think of a color to describe it. Tom - Original Message - From: Dawie Coetzee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Tom I've just been dealing with a small residential development in which the client has asked for a UPS system to deal with the recent unreliability of mains electricity here in South Africa. The proposed system is actually very simple, and consists of a battery charger, a battery stack, and an inverter, and the first thing that struck me about it is how easy it would be to feed whatever alternative current sources you might have into the system, be they DC or variable-voltage/frequency AC. The system does not need to be embedded in the building's electrical system in any way: it just sits next to the main DB, AC comes in and AC goes out. When I researched the proposed supplier I found that PV is their core business. So, pretty much any house is PV ready. Perhaps they mean that wireways have been allowed, and/or that there is a patch of roof that is oriented suitably. However: I am always wary of any development that claims to be green and sustainable if it is a residential suburban development. A far more important question to ask than anything concerning the building services is, what are people supposed to do there? If they aren't either going to grow something or fabricate something or both, they're not going to solve anything. If they're just going to sleep there, they are still a functional part of an unsustainable system, not least because they would still be subject to an artificial need for transport, the meeting of which by politely-humming attenuations of efficiency only makes the problem worse. Best regards Dawie - Original Message From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, 8 February, 2008 4:50:38 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Green Developer? Hello All, I recently attended a presentation by a developer. The presenter used the words green and sustainable in reference to the development. I would appreciate a bit of help. What does it mean when one says that many of the houses will be photo-voltaic ready? I understand that it suggests that they will support the addition of PV cells. Is there anything specifically different about the construction of PV ready houses that makes them different from other houses? Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080208/19db69cd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Sent from Yahoo! Mail - a smarter inbox http://uk.mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Green Developer?
Hello All, I recently attended a presentation by a developer. The presenter used the words green and sustainable in reference to the development. I would appreciate a bit of help. What does it mean when one says that many of the houses will be photo-voltaic ready? I understand that it suggests that they will support the addition of PV cells. Is there anything specifically different about the construction of PV ready houses that makes them different from other houses? Tom -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080208/19db69cd/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
