Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
was indeed an idiot, me! We just used the standard 1040 form which does not allow for multiple taxing rates; you pay at the rate of the gross taxable income. I had never heard of being able to apply rates in stages, can you point me to the code that allows this? Perhaps next time we should consult an accountant! Lillie - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hey Lillie- Thanks for sharing the nice story about your taxes. But frankly, I don't see how it can be true. If it is, your accountant is either an idiot or a crook. Either that, or you're not telling the whole story. When you jump from one tax bracket to the next, only the amount over the cutoff is taxed at the higher rate. The amount under a specific cutoff is still taxed at the lower rate. There is no possible way that simply jumping a tax bracket due to an increase of $3000 in taxable income could result in an extra $6000 in tax liability. Perhaps an example is in order. Assume you made 56,000 dollars in taxable income last year. The first $14,000 is taxed at 10% and the amount over $14000 is taxed at 15%. This means you owe $1400 on the first $12k and $6300 on the next $42k for a total liability of $7700. Now assume you make an extra $3000 this year. Your taxable income increases to $59,000. You pay $1400 on the first $14k, $6420 on the next $42,800, and $550 on the amount over $56,800 for a total liability of $8370. In this example, an increase of $3000 in taxable income increases tax liability by $670, not $6000. Even in the worst possible case, $2999 taxed at 35%, the increase is only an additional tax burden of $1049.65. So either you're not telling the whole story, or you are getting ripped off, but there is no way that increasing your taxable income by $3000 increased your tax liability by $6000 simply by moving up one tax bracket. It just doesn't work that way. jh Lillie Bennett wrote: Not to mention the economic crash on GWB's watch! Ha. Ha. Ha. I just gotta tell my story: Bob and I saved for ten years, finally we had $18,000 in the savings collecting miniscule interest. An advisor put us on to a great annuity, paying 7% 1st year, 6% 2nd year and 5% the third year but after that the interest performance was just like the bank. We earned about $3,000 in 4 years. We decided the best investment opportunity now was land, we both always wanted some land. So be bought the land and cashed in on the annuity to help pay for it. We didn't mind paying the 10% early withdrawal tax. What we didn't realize was the extra $3,000 earnings put us into the next tax bracket and we owed $6,000 extra income tax. That's is a lot of money to cough up! Then we had to pay the penalty for not paying enough estimated tax! Not only did we loose the earnings but went another $3,000+ in the hole. We would have been better off leaving the money in the bank. There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Lillie - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Thanks for sharing the nice story about your taxes. But frankly, I don't see how it can be true. If it is, your accountant is either an idiot or a crook. Either that, or you're not telling the whole story. When you jump from one tax bracket to the next, only the amount over the cutoff is taxed at the higher rate. The amount under a specific cutoff is still taxed at the lower rate. There is no possible way that simply jumping a tax bracket due to an increase of $3000 in taxable income could result in an extra $6000 in tax liability. Perhaps an example is in order. Assume you made 56,000 dollars in taxable income last year. The first $14,000 is taxed at 10% and the amount over $14000 is taxed at 15%. This means you owe $1400 on the first $12k and $6300 on the next $42k for a total liability of $7700. Now assume you make an extra $3000 this year. Your taxable income increases to $59,000. You pay $1400 on the first $14k, $6420 on the next $42,800, and $550 on the amount over $56,800 for a total liability of $8370. In this example, an increase of $3000 in taxable income increases tax liability by $670, not $6000. Even in the worst possible case, $2999 taxed at 35%, the increase is only an additional tax burden of $1049.65. So either you're not telling the whole story, or you are getting ripped off, but there is no way that increasing your taxable income by $3000 increased your tax liability by $6000 simply by moving up one tax bracket. It just doesn't work that way. jh Lillie Bennett wrote: Not to mention the economic crash on GWB's watch! Ha. Ha. Ha. I just gotta tell my story: Bob and I saved for ten years, finally we had $18,000 in the savings collecting miniscule interest. An advisor put us on to a great annuity, paying 7% 1st year, 6% 2nd year and 5% the third year but after that the interest performance was just like the bank. We earned about $3,000 in 4 years. We decided the best investment opportunity now was land, we both always wanted some land. So be bought the land and cashed in on the annuity to help pay for it. We didn't mind paying the 10% early withdrawal tax. What we didn't realize was the extra $3,000 earnings put us into the next tax bracket and we owed $6,000 extra income tax. That's is a lot of money to cough up! Then we had to pay the penalty for not paying enough estimated tax! Not only did we loose the earnings but went another $3,000+ in the hole. We would have been better off leaving the money in the bank. There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Lillie - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-Marshall Plan
Christ is not a Republican nor is he a Democrat. http://www.JesusNoRepublican.org http://www.JesusNoDemocrat.Org When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; but when the wicked rule, the people groan. Proverbs 29:2 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Lillie - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism? : : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. That's the reason that people vote for Bush, and no other. The problem is that this is a flase belief. Real wages have gone down since Bush took office, and jobs have been lost. If you earn over $200,000 per year, you do have more money in your pocket. If you are like 99% of the country, chances are that you have lost ground. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. Your basis for this? Bush lied to bring this country to war, and continues to lie about the reasons for it. What lies has Kerry told? This statement needs to be backed up with some evidence. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Your basis for this gaurantee? Again, a baseless lie, this time reported as a gaurantee. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! Already addressed as a fallacy. All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Interesting, you make a gaurantee, then state that you cannot prove it. You've learned well from your President. State lies forcefully, then when challenged use smoke and mirrors. Do you think that the people on this board are foolish enough to buy it? : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Not much need for anyone to disagree about the politics at hand if they were to evaluate everything face forward rather than hoping against hope. I was speaking with a member of the ROTC brass last week. While he seemed rather complacent in justifying his support of the president, he did make an all too valid observation. We were speaking of the broad reaches and ramifications of effective energy/efficiency/conservation policy. I made the remark that this country (the US) is obese in it's patterns of energy waste. He responded that all one has to do is look at the average wasteline to be able to draw some evidence of that, stating that what this country severely needs is discipline. Yah. Sure. Perhaps one might expect such a remark from a military rep. But he's perfectly and absolutely correct. And his observation probably extends accurately far beyond energy issues. At least one military rep recognizes how wasteful his country is. As for a global Marshal Plan? Virtually every person I speak to for more than a few seconds, no matter what cloth they are cut from, agrees that enormous inroads could be gained in global health, environment, international animosity, perceptions of global corporatism and political corruption if such a plan were initiated. Certainly it would be grand if an American president had the backbone to do exactly that. Nothing could better unite a fractionalized country, at least in some part. One thing is almost an absolute certainty - more cast in stone than anything Moses ever saw - the present president will do virtually nothing from his end to level the energy playing field in anything more than a gratuitous manner. Energy prices will continue to surge, and profit alone will be the impetus for businesses and families to venture into renewables, efficiency and conservation. But that will be more a result of inaction by an administration than any action. Energy giants will continue to be inequitably subsidized and reap increasingly enormous profits as a result of soaring prices. The poor will be poorer, the cold colder and everyone across the planet will be a little older and further behind the eight ball. If for no other reason than the squandering of energy and the placing of a nation in a poorer position of insecurity, Mr. Bush should be handed his walking papers and a more conscious replacement given opportunity to begin effecting the necessary changes. All Mr. Bush's other mistakes are just more window dressing for cause. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Todd, I think that for the most part, it is just going to be a matter of agreeing to disagree about Politics and those that make a living from it. OTOH, I think that for the most part, we do agree for the most that something needs to be done about world energy practice, although, I believe that the way it needs to be done starts falling into the realm of politics. Your idea of a global Marshal Plan on energy has merit, the problem is that the maximum number of terms that a person may be President of the US, puts a damper on it.Someone that is in office for only a maximum of 8 years, is only looking to do the best they can for those 8 years, because sure a there are little green apples, the next man in, is most likely going to change things. For the idea to have a global Marshal Plan on energy for 16 to 20 years, means it would have to be a law from congress, and few people their would be willing to gamble with any presidential ambitions that they may have, although a few would rather stay in congress where they think that they can make a long term difference.The one real chance for a global Marshal Plan on energy, would be to vote a majority of congressional members into office, that would not care if they served a second term of not, because I don't think that most Americans would like the results, and would vote them out the next election. Should a energy Marshal Plan like law pass, the thing that you would then have to worry about then is Big Oil and those that benefit from Big Oil ( farmers that rely on the fertilizer that oil is used for, the workers that work for companies that rely on oil to produce the products and so on ) taking the global energy Marshal Plan law to court, calling it unconstitutional, discriminatory, ect... While wanting everyone to have there oars in the water, is nice, I think that there are just too many people in the world with differing opinions, to come to a world wide consensus.To many people want the walls and division, it makes them feel special.To touch lightly on politics, people like Jessie Jackson appears to like building walls, were as Marten L. King wanted to tear them down. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-Marshall Plan
Hi, After reading of operation keelhaul, I now longer can use the phrase Marshall Plan in a way synonymous with good actions. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christ is not a Republican nor is he a Democrat. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-Marshall Plan
kin. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-Marshall Plan Hi, After reading of operation keelhaul, I now longer can use the phrase Marshall Plan in a way synonymous with good actions. Doug, N0LKK [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christ is not a Republican nor is he a Democrat. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz - Original Message - From: Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Well it was the adults who elected gwb in 2000. A man even prior to 9-11 who was proven eager to lie or waffle, however you want to put it, if it served his ends. Worse yet who was effectively willing to deal with the Taliban terrorists on Nov. 10, 2001. Using gwb's own rhetoric to judge him by, he should be on trial for criminal negligence, much less removed from office. I rather would have better choices but, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Doug - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) : : Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
I just gotta tell my story: Bob and I saved for ten years, finally we had $18,000 in the savings collecting miniscule interest. An advisor put us on to a great annuity, paying 7% 1st year, 6% 2nd year and 5% the third year but after that the interest performance was just like the bank. We earned about $3,000 in 4 years. We decided the best investment opportunity now was land, we both always wanted some land. So be bought the land and cashed in on the annuity to help pay for it. We didn't mind paying the 10% early withdrawal tax. What we didn't realize was the extra $3,000 earnings put us into the next tax bracket and we owed $6,000 extra income tax. That's is a lot of money to cough up! Then we had to pay the penalty for not paying enough estimated tax! Not only did we loose the earnings but went another $3,000+ in the hole. We would have been better off leaving the money in the bank. There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Lillie - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
have sworn fealty to Israel instead of thier own people. The good of the one is not necessarily to the benefit of the other, unless we are looking at ONLY the political agendas. What a friend the US has in Israel; they bombed the USS Liberty knowing full well it was an American ship and killed a bunch of sailors hoping to get America to retaliate against Egypt. The Mossad set up a transmitter in a blacl ops in Tripoli Lybia knowing full well the US echelon or other such intelligence apparatus would decipher the mesage, and Reagan bombed Lybia killing Ghaddafi's 11 year old daughter. There is more than a little doubt about the USS Cole incident as well, not to mention the information linking Israel to 9-11 that Bush had classified. The FBI recently were in the process of unearthing an entire spy ring centered around AIPAC, the Zionist front group and the Office of Special Projects headed by Zionists until they were ordered to lay off by Rummy himself. Tghe spes would have a channel that flowed information to and from Israel without the hinderance of being cleared via the CIA and that way the WMD lie was cooked up that led to the criminal slaughter of thousands. What a friend, huh? So what does America have to look forward to? One way or the other the interests of Israel will be put ahead of those of the American people. Most people, includig myself, do not hate Americans, although what is being done in their name by the governing body and their friends is worthhy of the highest disdain, regardless of the system of values that one holds dear. The exception to that (system of values)has already been covered in past posts, so no sense in beating it any more here. Both Bush and Kerry have the same almamater, The Skull and Bones society at Yale, a notably satanic ritualistic and highly secretive group which neither candidate will to this day talk about. One report even has them blood relatives to a British lineage, however that is not conclusively proven, I believe. Children are simple at heart, as they should be, and will automatically see a warmonger and be attracted to whomever is opposite. Even if syblings are often at odds with each other, it is very traumatising for them if the parents are in a constant state of disunity and quarrel. It is not an environment they appreciate, so sinmply looking at things Kerry has not yet shown his entire true colours and Bush has. He has lied to the world to start a war of conquest. Children are not stupid either and can see that as well, enough to not want anything to do with it. Luc - Original Message - From: MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry You've got to love those kids. They recognize a winner when they hear one. Don't be to harsh on them. How were they to know someone wouldn't like the results after that there in? They picked Clinton and the Bush's and now their moving on with Kerry. Someone had to win. Maybe next time, eh? Cheers Steve Spence wrote: Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
- Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 times. Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist attacks against US targets overseas and he didn't make it a priority to find out exactly who was doing what Clinton didn't make a priority of having audio intelligence translated faster, if he had allocated funds for 25 translators, he would have known who was doing what and could have it taken care of in less than 3 years. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Intelligence cutbacks to virtually nonexistant? I guess that also explains why all the WMDs turned out to be non-existant..., because the darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets, was actually virtually nonexistant (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for intel had been previously cut back to zero. (Oh..., sorry..., virtually nonexistant.) Well. That answers that question. But if you're right Greg, then George W. should be appropriately assessed as being nothing but a bald faced liar who fabricates intel out of thin air, because there was virtually no intelligence (You know..., due to the cut backs you refer to.). Now, we wouldn't want your conclusive findings to give cause for assessing something as ugly as that against Mr. Bush, would we? And do you remember those timely panty raids (Republican inside joke) that were conducted during the impeachment hearings? You know, the attacks on suspected terrorist camps that the anti-Clinton camp claimed were a pre-meditated diversion from the hearings? I have to profess, all these dyed in the wool Bush supporters are a peculiar lot, always wanting it both ways. Bombing is a diversion. Not bombing lets the blame be cast against someone else's watch. Must be quite convenient fabricating no-lose situations for all occassions. Helps considerably in shifting the burden of responsibility whenever that time comes. Come on Greg. Just between you, me, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and the fly on the wall? We know where the[ weapons of mass destruction] are, don't we? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 times. Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist attacks against US targets overseas and he didn't make it a priority to find out exactly who was doing what Clinton didn't make a priority of having audio intelligence translated faster, if he had allocated funds for 25 translators, he would have known who was doing what and could have it taken care of in less than 3 years. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
I have sat by and watched these tirades on the Biodiesel list for sometime. It still eludes me what this has to due with Biodiesel.My father worked for Texaco as a simple refinery worker. This is why I joined this list.I think motor fuel production could be in hands of the little guy. I would like to be a part of that. I don't think the war in Iraq was a good idea. I think alternative energy is. For the most part, I think the members of this list share this viewpoint. If there is a Zionist cabal as you called it, they have sertainly missed me and my family for several generations. Yes, I am a Jew. But if my resident country determines I can be of help,I serve. My grandfather, father, myself,my son, and soon my daughter have all served in a branches of the U.S.Federal Government which required combat or great risk. You see as Jews, we don't seek to convert people to our religion. (or to protect Israel) Our obligation is teach (or more accurately tell) you of one G-d and what his expectations are for you, i.e. that you follow 7 of the 10 commandments. It is with great regret I must inform you that I am not a Torah Scholar. But I have seen many inaccuracies posted here (1) about us and our relationship with G-d. This is basically, from what I can surmise, from people who have probably had very little contact with Jews. I base this upon the geography of the postings. It is really with our G-d that I think your complaints are against. Israel doesn't really affect your life on a day to day basis. But our G-d's laws do. And this has everything to do with Biodiesel. Just for the record, weather you like us or not, this is what He expects from you. 1. Do not murder. 2. Do not steal. 3. Do not worship false gods. 4. Do not be sexually immoral. 5. Do not eat the limb of an animal before it is killed. 6. Do not curse God. 7. Set up courts and bring offenders to justice. Attempting to bring us down, or to tell us that our relationship with G-d has changed, (and therefore you are off the hook for the above laws), will not change his expectation that you follow the above laws. If you hate these laws it is something you should take up with him. We are still going to be here, AS HE PROMISED. Israel is going to be here AS HE PROMISED. And you will be judged (as we will) AS HE PROMISED. There is only one G-d. And that one G-d rules the universe and expects you to follow the above seven laws. The fact that we are here, proving his existence, and expectations, is what your compliant is truly against. (1) Such as I intentionally exclude The Talmud here as it is NOT a holy book but rather an extrapolation of rabinical doctrines, dogmas and traditions unrealated to the texts of any of the above,except to distort and manipulate them. Here again you apperently want to kill the messenger. Major sections of Tumud teach against the evil tonge for your postings, you are apparently attached to this path. I have also seen kindness in your desire to help others in your postings. I would suggest that you follow the path of kindness. From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:00:32 -0400 Main problem facing Americans (amongst the many) is that both candidates have sworn fealty to Israel instead of thier own people. The good of the one is not necessarily to the benefit of the other, unless we are looking at ONLY the political agendas. What a friend the US has in Israel; they bombed the USS Liberty knowing full well it was an American ship and killed a bunch of sailors hoping to get America to retaliate against Egypt. The Mossad set up a transmitter in a blacl ops in Tripoli Lybia knowing full well the US echelon or other such intelligence apparatus would decipher the mesage, and Reagan bombed Lybia killing Ghaddafi's 11 year old daughter. There is more than a little doubt about the USS Cole incident as well, not to mention the information linking Israel to 9-11 that Bush had classified. The FBI recently were in the process of unearthing an entire spy ring centered around AIPAC, the Zionist front group and the Office of Special Projects headed by Zionists until they were ordered to lay off by Rummy himself. Tghe spes would have a channel that flowed information to and from Israel without the hinderance of being cleared via the CIA and that way the WMD lie was cooked up that led to the criminal slaughter of thousands. What a friend, huh? So what does America have to look forward to? One way or the other the interests of Israel will be put ahead of those of the American people. Most people, includig myself, do not hate Americans, although what is being done in their name by the governing body and their friends is worthhy of the highest disdain, regardless of the system of values that one holds dear. The exception to that (system of values)has already been covered in past posts
Re: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Thank you for your kind words, Keith. That is exactly what I was talking about. Disagree with your politics, and you attack the person. enough vitriole, I'm out of here. ---Original Message--- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Sent: Oct 21 2004 16:49:37 Steve It would take too long to go over all the posts that really blow it. There are so many of them. I'm going to stick with biofuels and related topics, and leave it to the rest of you muckrakers. I'm not the one who stirs stuff up, but I sure get beat over the head when I ocassionaly object to the stirring that goes on. You sure like it one sided. No, you do. You fling charges and claims about that you don't substantiate, when asked to substantiate them you obfuscate. Reason: no substance. You've done that here before. This is the truth of it: In Steve Spence's opinion, there have been half truths and hateful misinformationÊÊspread on this list, where many members are not only anti-Bush but anti-American, but since, not for the first time, he's unable to provide any substance for this nor any instances of it when challenged to do so, it's just an empty opinion, based simply on Steve's inability to counter views he disagrees with and objects to. Keith = = = Original message = = = There you go again Steve. (Ronald Reagan, nationally televised debate with President Carter.) You know, for a guy that doesn't have enough time to address what he stirs up, you sure do like to keep that ladle moving. Please, would you do everyone a very big service and point to the half-truths (plural) and misinformation that you are eluding to? And when you've addressed those claims, please be so kind as to zero in on what aspects are hateful. I would think that if you take such great acception with what others state that you would redress those statements specifically and steer clear of overly broad and sweeping generalizations. But then again, that type of evasiveness does serve it's purpose, doesn't it? Nothing wrong with a differing in beliefs. But it would be rather nice to see you put some substantiation in print. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Actually there were real live WMD's in Iraq right after trhe invasion. However the problem was it was the spooks that were trying to bring 'em in and they got friendly fired all to bits. Somebody forgot to tell the gunners they were the good guys, and you know those gunners, just itchin' to gun someone, like that Psycho guy who whacked the four Canadians in Afghanistan and was awarded a slap on the wrist for his efforts. http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/edit/index.php?op=viewitemid=331 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9 Just a couple so as not to take up too much space. Good thing the US media covered none of this huh? Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hmmm, this is interesting. Intelligence cutbacks to virtually nonexistant? I guess that also explains why all the WMDs turned out to be non-existant..., because the darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets, was actually virtually nonexistant (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for intel had been previously cut back to zero. (Oh..., sorry..., virtually nonexistant.) Well. That answers that question. But if you're right Greg, then George W. should be appropriately assessed as being nothing but a bald faced liar who fabricates intel out of thin air, because there was virtually no intelligence (You know..., due to the cut backs you refer to.). Now, we wouldn't want your conclusive findings to give cause for assessing something as ugly as that against Mr. Bush, would we? And do you remember those timely panty raids (Republican inside joke) that were conducted during the impeachment hearings? You know, the attacks on suspected terrorist camps that the anti-Clinton camp claimed were a pre-meditated diversion from the hearings? I have to profess, all these dyed in the wool Bush supporters are a peculiar lot, always wanting it both ways. Bombing is a diversion. Not bombing lets the blame be cast against someone else's watch. Must be quite convenient fabricating no-lose situations for all occassions. Helps considerably in shifting the burden of responsibility whenever that time comes. Come on Greg. Just between you, me, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and the fly on the wall? We know where the[ weapons of mass destruction] are, don't we? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 times. Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist attacks against US targets overseas and he didn't make it a priority to find out exactly who was doing what Clinton didn't make a priority of having audio intelligence translated faster, if he had allocated funds for 25 translators, he would have known who was doing what and could have it taken care of in less than 3 years. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Would you be so kind as to stop laying all the conspiracy theories on as thick as plum jam? I for one am perfectly familiar with the grand depths of deceipt, malfeasance and marauding the human animal is capable of. And I have virtually no doubt that there is far more to what has occurred (in any venue) than we will ever know. Just that it gets a little old when every syllable posted by you is anti-everything-under-the-sun. It's not the entire world that is evil. Just the evil part. And it would be nice to have a chance to catch one's breath between assaults. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hey Todd; Actually there were real live WMD's in Iraq right after trhe invasion. However the problem was it was the spooks that were trying to bring 'em in and they got friendly fired all to bits. Somebody forgot to tell the gunners they were the good guys, and you know those gunners, just itchin' to gun someone, like that Psycho guy who whacked the four Canadians in Afghanistan and was awarded a slap on the wrist for his efforts. http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/edit/index.php?op=viewitemid=331 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9 Just a couple so as not to take up too much space. Good thing the US media covered none of this huh? Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hmmm, this is interesting. Intelligence cutbacks to virtually nonexistant? I guess that also explains why all the WMDs turned out to be non-existant..., because the darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets, was actually virtually nonexistant (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for intel had been previously cut back to zero. (Oh..., sorry..., virtually nonexistant.) Well. That answers that question. But if you're right Greg, then George W. should be appropriately assessed as being nothing but a bald faced liar who fabricates intel out of thin air, because there was virtually no intelligence (You know..., due to the cut backs you refer to.). Now, we wouldn't want your conclusive findings to give cause for assessing something as ugly as that against Mr. Bush, would we? And do you remember those timely panty raids (Republican inside joke) that were conducted during the impeachment hearings? You know, the attacks on suspected terrorist camps that the anti-Clinton camp claimed were a pre-meditated diversion from the hearings? I have to profess, all these dyed in the wool Bush supporters are a peculiar lot, always wanting it both ways. Bombing is a diversion. Not bombing lets the blame be cast against someone else's watch. Must be quite convenient fabricating no-lose situations for all occassions. Helps considerably in shifting the burden of responsibility whenever that time comes. Come on Greg. Just between you, me, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and the fly on the wall? We know where the[ weapons of mass destruction] are, don't we? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 times. Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
had nothing to do with them. Take it or leave it, like everything else. That is what the delete button is for.A little touchy aren't we? So sorry. I shall refrain from injuring any further. Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry U..., Luc? Would you be so kind as to stop laying all the conspiracy theories on as thick as plum jam? I for one am perfectly familiar with the grand depths of deceipt, malfeasance and marauding the human animal is capable of. And I have virtually no doubt that there is far more to what has occurred (in any venue) than we will ever know. Just that it gets a little old when every syllable posted by you is anti-everything-under-the-sun. It's not the entire world that is evil. Just the evil part. And it would be nice to have a chance to catch one's breath between assaults. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hey Todd; Actually there were real live WMD's in Iraq right after trhe invasion. However the problem was it was the spooks that were trying to bring 'em in and they got friendly fired all to bits. Somebody forgot to tell the gunners they were the good guys, and you know those gunners, just itchin' to gun someone, like that Psycho guy who whacked the four Canadians in Afghanistan and was awarded a slap on the wrist for his efforts. http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/edit/index.php?op=viewitemid=331 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9 Just a couple so as not to take up too much space. Good thing the US media covered none of this huh? Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hmmm, this is interesting. Intelligence cutbacks to virtually nonexistant? I guess that also explains why all the WMDs turned out to be non-existant..., because the darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets, was actually virtually nonexistant (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for intel had been previously cut back to zero. (Oh..., sorry..., virtually nonexistant.) Well. That answers that question. But if you're right Greg, then George W. should be appropriately assessed as being nothing but a bald faced liar who fabricates intel out of thin air, because there was virtually no intelligence (You know..., due to the cut backs you refer to.). Now, we wouldn't want your conclusive findings to give cause for assessing something as ugly as that against Mr. Bush, would we? And do you remember those timely panty raids (Republican inside joke) that were conducted during the impeachment hearings? You know, the attacks on suspected terrorist camps that the anti-Clinton camp claimed were a pre-meditated diversion from the hearings? I have to profess, all these dyed in the wool Bush supporters are a peculiar lot, always wanting it both ways. Bombing is a diversion. Not bombing lets the blame be cast against someone else's watch. Must be quite convenient fabricating no-lose situations for all occassions. Helps considerably in shifting the burden of responsibility whenever that time comes. Come on Greg. Just between you, me, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and the fly on the wall? We know where the[ weapons of mass destruction] are, don't we? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 times. Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say most
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
this. Israelis that. Clandestine midnight rendevous something else. I think that at this moment in time a lot of people are desperately in need of some breathing room, if just occassionally and but for a moment. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry It weren't a conspiracy theory it was articles that were printed and I had nothing to do with them. Take it or leave it, like everything else. That is what the delete button is for.A little touchy aren't we? So sorry. I shall refrain from injuring any further. Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry U..., Luc? Would you be so kind as to stop laying all the conspiracy theories on as thick as plum jam? I for one am perfectly familiar with the grand depths of deceipt, malfeasance and marauding the human animal is capable of. And I have virtually no doubt that there is far more to what has occurred (in any venue) than we will ever know. Just that it gets a little old when every syllable posted by you is anti-everything-under-the-sun. It's not the entire world that is evil. Just the evil part. And it would be nice to have a chance to catch one's breath between assaults. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hey Todd; Actually there were real live WMD's in Iraq right after trhe invasion. However the problem was it was the spooks that were trying to bring 'em in and they got friendly fired all to bits. Somebody forgot to tell the gunners they were the good guys, and you know those gunners, just itchin' to gun someone, like that Psycho guy who whacked the four Canadians in Afghanistan and was awarded a slap on the wrist for his efforts. http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/edit/index.php?op=viewitemid=331 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9 Just a couple so as not to take up too much space. Good thing the US media covered none of this huh? Luc - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hmmm, this is interesting. Intelligence cutbacks to virtually nonexistant? I guess that also explains why all the WMDs turned out to be non-existant..., because the darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets, was actually virtually nonexistant (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for intel had been previously cut back to zero. (Oh..., sorry..., virtually nonexistant.) Well. That answers that question. But if you're right Greg, then George W. should be appropriately assessed as being nothing but a bald faced liar who fabricates intel out of thin air, because there was virtually no intelligence (You know..., due to the cut backs you refer to.). Now, we wouldn't want your conclusive findings to give cause for assessing something as ugly as that against Mr. Bush, would we? And do you remember those timely panty raids (Republican inside joke) that were conducted during the impeachment hearings? You know, the attacks on suspected terrorist camps that the anti-Clinton camp claimed were a pre-meditated diversion from the hearings? I have to profess, all these dyed in the wool Bush supporters are a peculiar lot, always wanting it both ways. Bombing is a diversion. Not bombing lets the blame be cast against someone else's watch. Must be quite convenient fabricating no-lose situations for all occassions. Helps considerably in shifting the burden of responsibility whenever that time comes. Come on Greg. Just between you, me, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and the fly on the wall? We know where the[ weapons of mass destruction] are, don't we? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
I'm no fan of Bill Clinton and he his administration was dealing with the Taliban terrorists on that darn pipeline for a time, they did wake up and saw the folly and ceased dealing with them, to have Bush renew the negotiations. Clinton era intelligence was what used to set up conditions so they got lucky and foiled the plot on the West Coast at the millenium. Security was not on top of GWB agenda when he entered office, a good portion of his efforts apon taking office where to pay back those who bank rolled him. Why did the 9-11 commission investigation stop at the Clinton administration. Surely the previous 12 years of my countries willingness to deal with terrorists surely has a negative role. My first thought when I watch the TV coverage of the second impact was Binladen, my second thought was once again the wrong persons paid the highest price for the mistakes of my government. Make no mistake about it the men that piloted those planes are responsible for the murders on 9-11. IMO if life was fair the only ones to die would have been all members of the Reagan, both Bush and yes the Clinton administrations. Doug - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
, because, what they do, concerns not just the US, but, everyone in that part of the world. I don't have enough information, to make even an uninformed opinion about Iran. In the end, I think all politicos are liars to some extent now days, I don't believe that anyone can get into that high of office without lying. I believe that Bush represents a few more of my values better than Kerry does, and I don't see any other viable canidate. Do I want to make this country better?Yes. Would I like to be president of the US?No, I don't think that any sane person would want that job ( any more ), just for the sake of making the US ( or the world for that matter ) a better place, they want it for the power/glory.In most cases, too many things would have to be compromised, to get anything done. Would I like to have more ethical people as members of congress and as president?Yes! Do I think it will happen anytime soon?No.I might see it in my lifetime, but, then again..maybe not. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 19:13 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hmmm, this is interesting. Intelligence cutbacks to virtually nonexistant? I guess that also explains why all the WMDs turned out to be non-existant..., because the darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets, was actually virtually nonexistant (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for intel had been previously cut back to zero. (Oh..., sorry..., virtually nonexistant.) Well. That answers that question. But if you're right Greg, then George W. should be appropriately assessed as being nothing but a bald faced liar who fabricates intel out of thin air, because there was virtually no intelligence (You know..., due to the cut backs you refer to.). Now, we wouldn't want your conclusive findings to give cause for assessing something as ugly as that against Mr. Bush, would we? And do you remember those timely panty raids (Republican inside joke) that were conducted during the impeachment hearings? You know, the attacks on suspected terrorist camps that the anti-Clinton camp claimed were a pre-meditated diversion from the hearings? I have to profess, all these dyed in the wool Bush supporters are a peculiar lot, always wanting it both ways. Bombing is a diversion. Not bombing lets the blame be cast against someone else's watch. Must be quite convenient fabricating no-lose situations for all occassions. Helps considerably in shifting the burden of responsibility whenever that time comes. Come on Greg. Just between you, me, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and the fly on the wall? We know where the[ weapons of mass destruction] are, don't we? Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Hi, I'm having difficulty finding information that details what countries have capitalist, communist or socialist economies, can anyone help? Lately I have been reading many proclamations that most of the world is socialist. Whenever they write or speak further it becomes evident they are confusing social programs with, socialism as an economy. Thanks Doug - Original Message - From: Lillie Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Thank you for your kind words, Keith. That is exactly what I was talking about. Disagree with your politics, and you attack the person. No. It's just a description of what you did. But, as we've often seen here before, and indeed with you previously, it's not unusual for people who make claims they can't substantiate to make that claim too when they're asked to do so. I did ask you to, in fact I challenged you to. You didn't reply, except for an offlist complaint. Which was wrong, and ignored the challange anyway. My politics? As I said, I don't care if you support Bush or Kerry or Mahatma Gandhi or Attila the Hun. It's how you do it that counts. It's in the list rules, which follow the fact of it - there's always been that requirement here: If someone questions you, don't just ignore them. You should be prepared to substantiate what you say, or to acknowledge it if you can't. Admitting you were wrong doesn't mean you lose face, it gains you respect. -- List rules: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20040906/05.html enough vitriole, Sure Steve, whatever you say. I'm out of here. As you wish. In Steve Spence's opinion, there have been half truths and hateful misinformation spread on this list, where many members are not only anti-Bush but anti-American, but since, not for the first time, he's unable to provide any substance for this nor any instances of it when challenged to do so, it's just an empty opinion, based simply on Steve's inability to counter views he disagrees with and objects to. QED. Keith Addison List owner ---Original Message--- From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Sent: Oct 21 2004 16:49:37 Steve It would take too long to go over all the posts that really blow it. There are so many of them. I'm going to stick with biofuels and related topics, and leave it to the rest of you muckrakers. I'm not the one who stirs stuff up, but I sure get beat over the head when I ocassionaly object to the stirring that goes on. You sure like it one sided. No, you do. You fling charges and claims about that you don't substantiate, when asked to substantiate them you obfuscate. Reason: no substance. You've done that here before. This is the truth of it: In Steve Spence's opinion, there have been half truths and hateful misinformation spread on this list, where many members are not only anti-Bush but anti-American, but since, not for the first time, he's unable to provide any substance for this nor any instances of it when challenged to do so, it's just an empty opinion, based simply on Steve's inability to counter views he disagrees with and objects to. Keith = = = Original message = = = There you go again Steve. (Ronald Reagan, nationally televised debate with President Carter.) You know, for a guy that doesn't have enough time to address what he stirs up, you sure do like to keep that ladle moving. Please, would you do everyone a very big service and point to the half-truths (plural) and misinformation that you are eluding to? And when you've addressed those claims, please be so kind as to zero in on what aspects are hateful. I would think that if you take such great acception with what others state that you would redress those statements specifically and steer clear of overly broad and sweeping generalizations. But then again, that type of evasiveness does serve it's purpose, doesn't it? Nothing wrong with a differing in beliefs. But it would be rather nice to see you put some substantiation in print. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Thanks Doug. I know of no country in modern civilization that has successfully changed to (Lenin and Trotsky's view of) socialism. The reason why is a whole other discussion. However, you could find some good examples in early 20th century Detroit Michigan. I'd only like to add that from an environmentalists point of view, I could see (the theory of) socialism to be a friendlier alternative. From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Mike Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm having difficulty finding information that details what countries have capitalist, communist or socialist economies, can anyone help? Lately I have been reading many proclamations that most of the world is socialist. Whenever they write or speak further it becomes evident they are confusing social programs with, socialism as an economy. Thanks Doug - Original Message - From: Lillie Bennett To: Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Steve, Having differing opinions and opposing views are vital to problem identification. A group of people all in agreement with one another will hardly identify new ways, or better approaches to any endeavor because even if that group does not develop the dangerous mind set of we've always done it that way, their thought processes are so entrenched that any new ideas are terribly diluted with the same old thinking. Disagreement is very important. In this list all opinions are encouraged to be expressed but they are expected; no, required to be validated with sound evidence. In order to develop solutions to today's problems we must have consensus. And consensus begins with debate from various opinions. Differing opinions. And for any individual to hope of having their opinion furthered within the debate, they must have sound, intelligent and convincing arguments for their opinion. Without such evidence, their opinion is baseless and no longer worthy of consideration towards consensus. I have on many occasion found my arguments to fall from the table of debate as my arguments were not sufficiently supportive of my opinion or my opinion was flawed. But I would like to believe that I am a better man for trying to forward my arguments and evidence yet I know that I am a better man for staying at the debate and learning from the arguments of others. In the end, I want to be a part of the solution. Keith is right that being able to admit you are wrong is only going to gain you respect at the table of debate. I'm sure there will be some who will disagree with my opinion stated here today or the semantics of my less than eloquent delivery. But I am always open for debate and more importantly...to learn. Best Wishes, Tim F. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 3:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Steve Thank you for your kind words, Keith. That is exactly what I was talking about. Disagree with your politics, and you attack the person. No. It's just a description of what you did. But, as we've often seen here before, and indeed with you previously, it's not unusual for people who make claims they can't substantiate to make that claim too when they're asked to do so. I did ask you to, in fact I challenged you to. You didn't reply, except for an offlist complaint. Which was wrong, and ignored the challange anyway. My politics? As I said, I don't care if you support Bush or Kerry or Mahatma Gandhi or Attila the Hun. It's how you do it that counts. It's in the list rules, which follow the fact of it - there's always been that requirement here: If someone questions you, don't just ignore them. You should be prepared to substantiate what you say, or to acknowledge it if you can't. Admitting you were wrong doesn't mean you lose face, it gains you respect. -- List rules: http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-2004 0906/05.html enough vitriole, Sure Steve, whatever you say. I'm out of here. As you wish. In Steve Spence's opinion, there have been half truths and hateful misinformation spread on this list, where many members are not only anti-Bush but anti-American, but since, not for the first time, he's unable to provide any substance for this nor any instances of it when challenged to do so, it's just an empty opinion, based simply on Steve's inability to counter views he disagrees with and objects to. QED. Keith Addison List owner ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Thank you Abraham, Acceptance of the best of each religious doctrine promotes peace. Looking for the bad in each philosophy promotes disharmony that erupts in problems. When I collect my garden vegetables I consider paring those blemishes that will not suit my personal palate and enjoy really good meals. You are correct to highlight the best. Too many people (the noisy ones) like to rant about issues that will naturally flow into goodness regardless of a presidential candidate. The concepts of appreciation and stewardship begin at home and are fundamental to most faiths. A global consciousness does not have to erase unique regional characteristics. Best wishes, Peggy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Abraham Lincoln Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I have sat by and watched these tirades on the Biodiesel list for sometime. It still eludes me what this has to due with Biodiesel.My father worked for Texaco as a simple refinery worker. This is why I joined this list.I think motor fuel production could be in hands of the little guy. I would like to be a part of that. I don't think the war in Iraq was a good idea. I think alternative energy is. For the most part, I think the members of this list share this viewpoint. If there is a Zionist cabal as you called it, they have sertainly missed me and my family for several generations. Yes, I am a Jew. But if my resident country determines I can be of help,I serve. My grandfather, father, myself,my son, and soon my daughter have all served in a branches of the U.S.Federal Government which required combat or great risk. You see as Jews, we don't seek to convert people to our religion. (or to protect Israel) Our obligation is teach (or more accurately tell) you of one G-d and what his expectations are for you, i.e. that you follow 7 of the 10 commandments. It is with great regret I must inform you that I am not a Torah Scholar. But I have seen many inaccuracies posted here (1) about us and our relationship with G-d. This is basically, from what I can surmise, from people who have probably had very little contact with Jews. I base this upon the geography of the postings. It is really with our G-d that I think your complaints are against. Israel doesn't really affect your life on a day to day basis. But our G-d's laws do. And this has everything to do with Biodiesel. Just for the record, weather you like us or not, this is what He expects from you. 1. Do not murder. 2. Do not steal. 3. Do not worship false gods. 4. Do not be sexually immoral. 5. Do not eat the limb of an animal before it is killed. 6. Do not curse God. 7. Set up courts and bring offenders to justice. Attempting to bring us down, or to tell us that our relationship with G-d has changed, (and therefore you are off the hook for the above laws), will not change his expectation that you follow the above laws. If you hate these laws it is something you should take up with him. We are still going to be here, AS HE PROMISED. Israel is going to be here AS HE PROMISED. And you will be judged (as we will) AS HE PROMISED. There is only one G-d. And that one G-d rules the universe and expects you to follow the above seven laws. The fact that we are here, proving his existence, and expectations, is what your compliant is truly against. (1) Such as I intentionally exclude The Talmud here as it is NOT a holy book but rather an extrapolation of rabinical doctrines, dogmas and traditions unrealated to the texts of any of the above,except to distort and manipulate them. Here again you apperently want to kill the messenger. Major sections of Tumud teach against the evil tonge for your postings, you are apparently attached to this path. I have also seen kindness in your desire to help others in your postings. I would suggest that you follow the path of kindness. From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:00:32 -0400 Main problem facing Americans (amongst the many) is that both candidates have sworn fealty to Israel instead of thier own people. The good of the one is not necessarily to the benefit of the other, unless we are looking at ONLY the political agendas. What a friend the US has in Israel; they bombed the USS Liberty knowing full well it was an American ship and killed a bunch of sailors hoping to get America to retaliate against Egypt. The Mossad set up a transmitter in a blacl ops in Tripoli Lybia knowing full well the US echelon or other such intelligence apparatus would decipher the mesage, and Reagan bombed Lybia killing Ghaddafi's 11 year old daughter. There is more than a little doubt about the USS Cole incident as well, not to mention the information linking Israel to 9-11 that Bush had classified. The FBI
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
: : There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. That's the reason that people vote for Bush, and no other. The problem is that this is a flase belief. Real wages have gone down since Bush took office, and jobs have been lost. If you earn over $200,000 per year, you do have more money in your pocket. If you are like 99% of the country, chances are that you have lost ground. : Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. Your basis for this? Bush lied to bring this country to war, and continues to lie about the reasons for it. What lies has Kerry told? This statement needs to be backed up with some evidence. It is guaranteed he : will accelerate the US march into socialism. Your basis for this gaurantee? Again, a baseless lie, this time reported as a gaurantee. Socialist love to claim they : can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even : though most of the world is socialist! Already addressed as a fallacy. All they can do is blame the US for : the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Interesting, you make a gaurantee, then state that you cannot prove it. You've learned well from your President. State lies forcefully, then when challenged use smoke and mirrors. Do you think that the people on this board are foolish enough to buy it? : : Lillie : : - Original Message - : From: Friedrich Friesinger : To: : Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM : Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : : : I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! : Fritz : : : ___ : Biofuel mailing list : [EMAIL PROTECTED] : http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel : : Biofuel at Journey to Forever: : http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html : : Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): : http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/20/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
:-) That's what is worrisome every time such broad assertions are made. Perhaps you and everyone else can see why even the presentation of the shoddiest shred of fabric supporting such pandemonial beliefs lends well to getting to the truth of those matters that we all cling to in one way or another - false or otherwise. What I wonder is if you realize to what degree your country (and mine) has always been steeped in socialism? Are you familiar with those roads you travel? Those sewer and water lines you use? The tarmac you land on? The milk you drink? The flour, corn and soy tortillas you eat? The fuel you put in your car? The electricity you toast your bread with? The steel you roof your barn with? Your child's education? Much of your health care? Your military? Bailouts of other nations? At least let's be honest about your fears and realize that we've been swimming in a socially inclined stew pot since the birth of this nation - out of sheer necessity. What should be addressed are those areas where socialistic principles are abandoned or abused by others and supplanted by greed and self and/or private interests. If your hope is to see more people hold onto and/or achieve the American dream, then being aware of and accepting a fair degree of socialistic orientation is rather healthy. If you could care less about the vast chasm between abject poverty and wealth then you'll also have to steel yourself for all those amenities that you're presently enjoying that will be stripped away from you if we move the opposite direction. Assisting others is part of the burden of being human.But there's also reward in the same burden. Just because assistance is often done through the veils of government doesn't necessarily make it destructive or of negative value. Only when such funneling turns into frivolous waste at public expense should the hanging noose be made ready. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Lillie Bennett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Not to mention the economic crash on GWB's watch! Ha. Ha. Ha. I just gotta tell my story: Bob and I saved for ten years, finally we had $18,000 in the savings collecting miniscule interest. An advisor put us on to a great annuity, paying 7% 1st year, 6% 2nd year and 5% the third year but after that the interest performance was just like the bank. We earned about $3,000 in 4 years. We decided the best investment opportunity now was land, we both always wanted some land. So be bought the land and cashed in on the annuity to help pay for it. We didn't mind paying the 10% early withdrawal tax. What we didn't realize was the extra $3,000 earnings put us into the next tax bracket and we owed $6,000 extra income tax. That's is a lot of money to cough up! Then we had to pay the penalty for not paying enough estimated tax! Not only did we loose the earnings but went another $3,000+ in the hole. We would have been better off leaving the money in the bank. There is only one reason I will vote for Bush, extra money in my pocket. Kerry is nothing but hollow promises and outright lies. It is guaranteed he will accelerate the US march into socialism. Socialist love to claim they can solve the world's problems I don't buy it, they haven't done it; even though most of the world is socialist! All they can do is blame the US for the world's problems; so be it. This is my opinion and I cannot prove it. Lillie - Original Message - From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Abraham, As you describe it, you are very representative for my Jewish friends and others that I met. I am always trying to keep a difference between Israel government policies and Jews, as I try to keep a difference between US administration and Americans. Maybe I am not successful in making that clear all the times, but I am trying my best. We share the same human values and as i always try to point out, the Jews, Muslims and Christians share the same God and the same basic values. The problems arise on prophets and other spokes persons and their interpretations, who claim that they and none else represent the God and by that initiate severe conflicts. Their activities are in direct violation with the basic rules that the God gave them. The conflicts and wars, after WWI, always had energy as a strong factor. Most of them, including WWII, was about economic interests and control with energy as a very strong element. It is almost impossible to have an interest in energy solutions, without getting in to politics and try to understand what is behind all roadblocks for sustainable and ready for use solutions. If we are going to get anywhere and in a relative peaceful way, national and cooperate politics have to change. It is not a question about getting there, since it will be forced by lack of resources, it is a question of how much violence it will take. Hakan At 03:14 AM 10/22/2004, you wrote: I have sat by and watched these tirades on the Biodiesel list for sometime. It still eludes me what this has to due with Biodiesel.My father worked for Texaco as a simple refinery worker. This is why I joined this list.I think motor fuel production could be in hands of the little guy. I would like to be a part of that. I don't think the war in Iraq was a good idea. I think alternative energy is. For the most part, I think the members of this list share this viewpoint. If there is a Zionist cabal as you called it, they have sertainly missed me and my family for several generations. Yes, I am a Jew. But if my resident country determines I can be of help,I serve. My grandfather, father, myself,my son, and soon my daughter have all served in a branches of the U.S.Federal Government which required combat or great risk. You see as Jews, we don't seek to convert people to our religion. (or to protect Israel) Our obligation is teach (or more accurately tell) you of one G-d and what his expectations are for you, i.e. that you follow 7 of the 10 commandments. It is with great regret I must inform you that I am not a Torah Scholar. But I have seen many inaccuracies posted here (1) about us and our relationship with G-d. This is basically, from what I can surmise, from people who have probably had very little contact with Jews. I base this upon the geography of the postings. It is really with our G-d that I think your complaints are against. Israel doesn't really affect your life on a day to day basis. But our G-d's laws do. And this has everything to do with Biodiesel. Just for the record, weather you like us or not, this is what He expects from you. 1. Do not murder. 2. Do not steal. 3. Do not worship false gods. 4. Do not be sexually immoral. 5. Do not eat the limb of an animal before it is killed. 6. Do not curse God. 7. Set up courts and bring offenders to justice. Attempting to bring us down, or to tell us that our relationship with G-d has changed, (and therefore you are off the hook for the above laws), will not change his expectation that you follow the above laws. If you hate these laws it is something you should take up with him. We are still going to be here, AS HE PROMISED. Israel is going to be here AS HE PROMISED. And you will be judged (as we will) AS HE PROMISED. There is only one G-d. And that one G-d rules the universe and expects you to follow the above seven laws. The fact that we are here, proving his existence, and expectations, is what your compliant is truly against. (1) Such as I intentionally exclude The Talmud here as it is NOT a holy book but rather an extrapolation of rabinical doctrines, dogmas and traditions unrealated to the texts of any of the above,except to distort and manipulate them. Here again you apperently want to kill the messenger. Major sections of Tumud teach against the evil tonge for your postings, you are apparently attached to this path. I have also seen kindness in your desire to help others in your postings. I would suggest that you follow the path of kindness. From: Legal Eagle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:00:32 -0400 Main problem facing Americans (amongst the many) is that both candidates have sworn fealty to Israel instead of thier own people. The good of the one is not necessarily to the benefit of the other, unless we are looking at ONLY the political agendas. What a friend the US has in Israel
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Michael Redler wrote: snip From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
We both know that no administration has ever cut back human gathered intelligence to the point of being virtually nonexistant as you would like to believe or have others believe of any particular admin. And let's also take note that the darned good intelligence that Mr. Bush claimed to be operating under was entirely falacious. Much of it was proven so well before the first bomb was dropped, leaving no other conclusion to be drawn but that fabrication and mis-representation of intelligence was the order of the day - perhaps not the only order, but certainly one that cast an enormous shadow. Being absolutely in error is not something too many people would tout so highly or put on their resume. Which brings a person to one of your other points - that of the sanity of those who would be king. Most who would strive for such office believe that the job can be done and done well, to the betterment of all peoples. Unfortunately, simply believing something doesn't make it so. I have little doubt that in George's mind he believed himself to be capable and probably still believes it. Either that or he was pumped up over time into believing it. But nearly four years of wreckless abandon is proof enough to the contrary. No one says that all the world's ills will be resolved overnight by a changing of the guard. It takes an enormous amount of time and space to turn a ship of state around. But what is necessary at this very moment is for someone to throw out the sea anchor or start yielding to red lights before this ship of state runs completely aground. My personal opinion is that a global Marshal Plan on energy for a period of four or five consecutive presidential terms is about the only thing that will unite not only a country but a planet of countries. Focusing on commonality and everyone having equal cause to put their oars in the water is a far better method of achieving positive ends than is drawing division and building walls. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Actualy, I could understand it if Bush honestly thought there were WMDs, if he was using old data from the Clinton admin., that wasn't gone through before, mixed with new data. And let's get it correct, I said human gathered intelligence was cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent .Not virtually nonexistent (according to Greg Harbican) because funding for Intel had been previously cut back to zero. as you said Todd.The darned good intelligence that George W. Bush said he gets is darned good intelligence at the start of the 2nd Gulf War, compared to what he had at 9/11, and it is darned good intelligence today, compared to what he had at the start of the 2nd Gulf War. It becomes better every day that he is in office.Fewer mistakes, made, more information flowing.Even as poor as the intelligence information may have been when Bush got into office, it was darned good intelligence compared to over 90% of all the other nations.Human intelligence gathering, can tell a different story, a different part of the same story, or even the exact same story, that the pictures tell, and when both are combined, analysis have more information, than just what pictures alone may give, on which to try and decide what the truth really is. Clinton made open to the world some intelligence information from that part of the world, that the British gave the US, and it ended up, that they lost human agents ( spies if you don't want to mince words ), because of it. Because of that the British was very reluctant to share information with the US while Clinton was in power, fearing that he would do it again.I don't blame them. For that matter, if someone you trusted, told you something that they thought was true, and you acted on it ( because you trusted them to tell you the truth ), only to find out that your information wasn't as good as it could have been, who was wrong? You, the friend that you trusted, or was it a mistake?I'm not saying it was a mistake nor am I saying it was not a mistake, nor would I call you or your friend a liar if you both acted in good faith on the information you had at the time.An error in the information?Yes, that is what I would call it. If you have no reason to believe information is incorrect ( even if it may be flawed ) how are you supposed to know it is flawed?If later, you find out that your information is flawed, does that make you a liar?No. It just means that you worked with flawed data.It happens all the time all around the world.It even happened to Sadam, his data led him to believe that he could prevent his country from being invaded, by inviting UN inspectors back into his country, does that make him a liar?No. As for Clinton using cruise missiles
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Tom, It certainly would be if you only looked at the semantics and not the spirit of the statement. Mike Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Todd, I think that for the most part, it is just going to be a matter of agreeing to disagree about Politics and those that make a living from it. OTOH, I think that for the most part, we do agree for the most that something needs to be done about world energy practice, although, I believe that the way it needs to be done starts falling into the realm of politics. Your idea of a global Marshal Plan on energy has merit, the problem is that the maximum number of terms that a person may be President of the US, puts a damper on it.Someone that is in office for only a maximum of 8 years, is only looking to do the best they can for those 8 years, because sure a there are little green apples, the next man in, is most likely going to change things. For the idea to have a global Marshal Plan on energy for 16 to 20 years, means it would have to be a law from congress, and few people their would be willing to gamble with any presidential ambitions that they may have, although a few would rather stay in congress where they think that they can make a long term difference.The one real chance for a global Marshal Plan on energy, would be to vote a majority of congressional members into office, that would not care if they served a second term of not, because I don't think that most Americans would like the results, and would vote them out the next election. Should a energy Marshal Plan like law pass, the thing that you would then have to worry about then is Big Oil and those that benefit from Big Oil ( farmers that rely on the fertilizer that oil is used for, the workers that work for companies that rely on oil to produce the products and so on ) taking the global energy Marshal Plan law to court, calling it unconstitutional, discriminatory, ect... While wanting everyone to have there oars in the water, is nice, I think that there are just too many people in the world with differing opinions, to come to a world wide consensus.To many people want the walls and division, it makes them feel special.To touch lightly on politics, people like Jessie Jackson appears to like building walls, were as Marten L. King wanted to tear them down. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 08:29 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Well Greg, if it's precision you want, let's be precisely that. We both know that no administration has ever cut back human gathered intelligence to the point of being virtually nonexistant as you would like to believe or have others believe of any particular admin. And let's also take note that the darned good intelligence that Mr. Bush claimed to be operating under was entirely falacious. Much of it was proven so well before the first bomb was dropped, leaving no other conclusion to be drawn but that fabrication and mis-representation of intelligence was the order of the day - perhaps not the only order, but certainly one that cast an enormous shadow. Being absolutely in error is not something too many people would tout so highly or put on their resume. Which brings a person to one of your other points - that of the sanity of those who would be king. Most who would strive for such office believe that the job can be done and done well, to the betterment of all peoples. Unfortunately, simply believing something doesn't make it so. I have little doubt that in George's mind he believed himself to be capable and probably still believes it. Either that or he was pumped up over time into believing it. But nearly four years of wreckless abandon is proof enough to the contrary. No one says that all the world's ills will be resolved overnight by a changing of the guard. It takes an enormous amount of time and space to turn a ship of state around. But what is necessary at this very moment is for someone to throw out the sea anchor or start yielding to red lights before this ship of state runs completely aground. My personal opinion is that a global Marshal Plan on energy for a period of four or five consecutive presidential terms is about the only thing that will unite not only a country but a planet of countries. Focusing on commonality and everyone having equal cause to put their oars in the water is a far better method of achieving positive ends than is drawing division and building walls. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re[2]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Hallo Greg, Thursday, 21 October, 2004, 20:10:26, you wrote: I spent 8 years in the military. I was a spook and worked at an NSA/NSG (No Such Agency/Naval Security Group) command in the operations section. I am still in daily contact with many former, retired and current members of the intel community many of whom are my friends as well as colleagues. Over the years I have also worked with other spooks from all the military services as well as the CIA/DIA. I am not unfamiliar with the day to day nuts and bolts operations within that very small community. GH - Original Message - GH From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] GH To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GH Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 GH Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz GH Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. GH That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training GH while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the GH intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was GH cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on GH satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned GH by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the GH US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 GH times. Somehow people have the mistaken notion that all problems can be fixed by throwing money at them. Had Clinton expanded the intel budget ten fold it would not have made a whit of difference. In the middle east it is extremely difficult to get on-the-ground human intel resources. Next to impossible. Money would have made no difference whatsoever. How much money are the lives of oneself and ones family worth? And, who wants to help the patron of the Zionist cause even against the Iraqi dictator? One needs to understand the geopolitical thoughts and attitudes of folks before making decisions about what has happened and the why's and wherefore's of the events. Money was NEVER the problem. GH Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape GH intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before GH the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How GH much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say GH most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 GH years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their GH lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office GH 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this GH was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! GH Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist attacks against US targets overseas GH and he didn't make it a priority to find out exactly who was doing what GH Clinton didn't make a priority of having audio intelligence translated GH faster, if he had allocated funds for 25 translators, he would have known GH who was doing what and could have it taken care of in less than 3 years. GH Greg H. When working an intel billet whether civilian or military the first thing one learns is to look at the raw data with eyes which are detached from ones own personal political/religious/cultural bias. If one fails to do that then no matter how good the intel the analysis will be flawed and may cause unforseen damage to the interests of ones country. Intelligence collection and analysis must be neutral in order to be correctly and effectively used. The long and short of the 11 years of untranslated tapes is that they were not the problem. The administration from Bush on down had all the hard intel they needed but they ignored that because they were using bad, marginal and false intel to further their own partisan political agenda and not for the interests of either our country or that of either Afghanistan or Iraq. The neocons, all Zionists to a person and none of whom have served in the military, were in a position to run all intelligence through the office of Doug Feith, another neocon, and what was publicly reported was picked and chosen according to the aims of the neocons. This is the first time in the history of the US intelligence services that such a thing has ever happened on such a scale. What is even more startling and disturbing is that not only the American public and the world were being propagandized by this kabal, but the defense establishment was also subjected to this. GIGO-Garbage In Garbage Out. Bush absolutely knew that bin Laden was planning an attack on the US and that he planned to use aircraft to do so. Bush was not interested in that. What he was interested
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
H, I am not sure what is the difference between the semantics ( meaning, essence) of the statement and the spirit of the statement. Could you elaborate a bit here? In my humble opinion, this statement only sounds nicely, making it a good slogan, but it is empty/broken in essence ... Again I am lost, what is the spirit of this statement? let me show you again how this statement is broken: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? IF it is the person himself, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: each one evaluates his abilities at MIN (meaning they do not produce much for the system) each one evaluates his needs at MAX (trying to exploit system to get maximum from it) This leads to broken system where there is not enough goods produced everyone lives poorly, chronic shortage of basic goods, even soap and toilet paper :) Former USSR knows this path very well. IF it is some other person, who decides, what people are able to do and what are their needs, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: people abilities are evaluated at MAX (meaning lots of work requested from people, compulsory work in extreme cases) people needs are evaluated at MIN (even basic needs are thrown out in extreme cases) This leads to a slippery path of the bureaucratic governing, planned economy, compulsory work, compulsory work camps Again, the former USSR knows this path very well. I do not know of any method, which _fairly_ evaluates people's abilities and needs. Of course, if one finds third, better method, the argument may change, but untill then we are stuck with one of the above options, and these lead to UGLY consequences. Michael Redler wrote: Tom, It certainly would be if you only looked at the semantics and not the spirit of the statement. Mike Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Redler wrote: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
RE: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Liberal or Conservative? I have not owned a television for over thirty-five years. And I am both liberal and conservative not claiming a political affiliation other than abhorring policies that preach entitlement or lack of responsibility for personal action. Each of our two children (now grown) has a separate world view and I respect each of their opinions. They wil cancel each other's vote. Replace what has become a trend in using the word victim in one's vocabulary for describing someone's perceived social injustice and consider teaching/ demonstrating by example initiative, responsibility for shared action, bootstrapping, innovation, and freedom to change. We teach best by example. The mind-set and beliefs of a victim most often attract their experience. And as a foot note and comment from a different post... I do understand that biofuels will not solve all the problems. However, instilling hope and presenting alternatives in lieu of reading the messages of the fear mongers may have greater value than bashing policies without a replacement agenda. Best wishes, Peggy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Actually, all of the people that I know who do not own TV sets or allow their kids to watch TV are true liberals. I know more than a few Republicans, living in Indiana, and they ALL let their kids watch all of the Nickelodeon they want. Of course, many are so fed up with the way things are that they are planning to stay home on Nov. 2. They can't bring themselves to vote for Kerry, but also refuse to vote for more of the same. And, you're right, Hank would be a much better choice than four more years. I think that Todd summed it up best, so I won't bother pointing out the obvious yet again. Brian Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
whole America, love it or leave it thing. our country was founded on dissent and political discourse. the thing that makes this country great is that all opinions are welcomed, without them we have Nazi Germany. or America during the red scare... or America during the terrorist scare. I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Voltaire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry-socialism?
Tom, From Websters dictionary - semantics: The study of meanings spirit: Temper or disposition of mind For example, H doesn't carry as much specific meaning as it does an expression of sarcasm. If this doesn't clear things up, well, I think I'd like to change the subject because being mired in the semantics of this exchange is now occupying too much of my time. If you would like me to concede to some argument that has developed from this exchange -- then, so be it. For the sake of the folks on this list, I'm moving on. Mike Tomas Juknevicius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H, I am not sure what is the difference between the semantics ( meaning, essence) of the statement and the spirit of the statement. Could you elaborate a bit here? In my humble opinion, this statement only sounds nicely, making it a good slogan, but it is empty/broken in essence ... Again I am lost, what is the spirit of this statement? let me show you again how this statement is broken: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? IF it is the person himself, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: each one evaluates his abilities at MIN (meaning they do not produce much for the system) each one evaluates his needs at MAX (trying to exploit system to get maximum from it) This leads to broken system where there is not enough goods produced everyone lives poorly, chronic shortage of basic goods, even soap and toilet paper :) Former USSR knows this path very well. IF it is some other person, who decides, what people are able to do and what are their needs, the system tends to gravitate to the state, where: people abilities are evaluated at MAX (meaning lots of work requested from people, compulsory work in extreme cases) people needs are evaluated at MIN (even basic needs are thrown out in extreme cases) This leads to a slippery path of the bureaucratic governing, planned economy, compulsory work, compulsory work camps Again, the former USSR knows this path very well. I do not know of any method, which _fairly_ evaluates people's abilities and needs. Of course, if one finds third, better method, the argument may change, but untill then we are stuck with one of the above options, and these lead to UGLY consequences. Michael Redler wrote: Tom, It certainly would be if you only looked at the semantics and not the spirit of the statement. Mike Tomas Juknevicius wrote: Michael Redler wrote: From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. -- Karl Marx Hi, this slogan above ^ is one of the ugliest slogans in the world The immediate question, which leaves this slogan crashing and burning, is: WHO gets to decide what each person is able to do, and what are his/her needs? -- Tomas Juknevicius Senior Programmer -- Tomas Juknevicius ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re[2]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Gustl, Very good and the system is not particular for US, it is the same all over the world. Look what happened in UK and the suicide, for sure a direct result of this. A very good analysis anyway and explains why many feel so strong about what happens. The obvious reason for this and for all wars and politics of manipulation during the last 80 years have been oil and why should Bush have different motives, the problem is his incompetent and antagonistic way of doing it. Bush is very dangerous for the world community and US, it is only the latter who does not see it. Personally I would like to see massive support for ready for use alternative energy solutions. The only problems are that George's friends would lose their monopoly of energy resources. What we see are results of simple and inadequate solutions, based on greed and supported by propaganda, all in the interest of US corporations. It is however not sustainable policies and US in the end will suffer enormously from them. Hakan At 05:46 PM 10/22/2004, you wrote: Hallo Greg, Thursday, 21 October, 2004, 20:10:26, you wrote: I spent 8 years in the military. I was a spook and worked at an NSA/NSG (No Such Agency/Naval Security Group) command in the operations section. I am still in daily contact with many former, retired and current members of the intel community many of whom are my friends as well as colleagues. Over the years I have also worked with other spooks from all the military services as well as the CIA/DIA. I am not unfamiliar with the day to day nuts and bolts operations within that very small community. GH - Original Message - GH From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] GH To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GH Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 GH Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz GH Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. GH That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training GH while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the GH intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was GH cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on GH satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned GH by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the GH US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 GH times. Somehow people have the mistaken notion that all problems can be fixed by throwing money at them. Had Clinton expanded the intel budget ten fold it would not have made a whit of difference. In the middle east it is extremely difficult to get on-the-ground human intel resources. Next to impossible. Money would have made no difference whatsoever. How much money are the lives of oneself and ones family worth? And, who wants to help the patron of the Zionist cause even against the Iraqi dictator? One needs to understand the geopolitical thoughts and attitudes of folks before making decisions about what has happened and the why's and wherefore's of the events. Money was NEVER the problem. GH Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape GH intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before GH the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How GH much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say GH most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 GH years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their GH lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office GH 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this GH was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! GH Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist attacks against US targets overseas GH and he didn't make it a priority to find out exactly who was doing what GH Clinton didn't make a priority of having audio intelligence translated GH faster, if he had allocated funds for 25 translators, he would have known GH who was doing what and could have it taken care of in less than 3 years. GH Greg H. When working an intel billet whether civilian or military the first thing one learns is to look at the raw data with eyes which are detached from ones own personal political/religious/cultural bias. If one fails to do that then no matter how good the intel the analysis will be flawed and may cause unforseen damage to the interests of ones country. Intelligence collection and analysis must be neutral in order to be correctly and effectively used. The long and short of the 11 years of untranslated tapes is that they were not the problem. The administration from Bush on down had all the hard
RE: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Peggy, This is why we have such good debates in this group, we are all involved with ready for use agendas and do fight for peaceful solutions. Almost all discussions in the group are colored by the knowledge that the group represent an important part of the ready for use solutions. The frustrations comes from the politically low priorities and political road blocks, that defines the environment we work in. Hakan At 06:13 PM 10/22/2004, you wrote: Liberal or Conservative? I have not owned a television for over thirty-five years. And I am both liberal and conservative not claiming a political affiliation other than abhorring policies that preach entitlement or lack of responsibility for personal action. Each of our two children (now grown) has a separate world view and I respect each of their opinions. They wil cancel each other's vote. Replace what has become a trend in using the word victim in one's vocabulary for describing someone's perceived social injustice and consider teaching/ demonstrating by example initiative, responsibility for shared action, bootstrapping, innovation, and freedom to change. We teach best by example. The mind-set and beliefs of a victim most often attract their experience. And as a foot note and comment from a different post... I do understand that biofuels will not solve all the problems. However, instilling hope and presenting alternatives in lieu of reading the messages of the fear mongers may have greater value than bashing policies without a replacement agenda. Best wishes, Peggy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Actually, all of the people that I know who do not own TV sets or allow their kids to watch TV are true liberals. I know more than a few Republicans, living in Indiana, and they ALL let their kids watch all of the Nickelodeon they want. Of course, many are so fed up with the way things are that they are planning to stay home on Nov. 2. They can't bring themselves to vote for Kerry, but also refuse to vote for more of the same. And, you're right, Hank would be a much better choice than four more years. I think that Todd summed it up best, so I won't bother pointing out the obvious yet again. Brian Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Greg, Thursday, 21 October, 2004, 20:10:26, you wrote: I spent 8 years in the military. I was a spook and worked at an NSA/NSG (No Such Agency/Naval Security Group) command in the operations section. I am still in daily contact with many former, retired and current members of the intel community many of whom are my friends as well as colleagues. Over the years I have also worked with other spooks from all the military services as well as the CIA/DIA. I am not unfamiliar with the day to day nuts and bolts operations within that very small community.snip Gustl, can I ask you what the definition of the term spook you are referring to? Just curious. Thanks. Jonathan. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
served me was to confirm stuff I had picked up along the way. Just because you are not paranoid doesn't mean that they are not after you :) Luc - Original Message - From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:46 AM Subject: Re[2]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Hallo Greg, Thursday, 21 October, 2004, 20:10:26, you wrote: I spent 8 years in the military. I was a spook and worked at an NSA/NSG (No Such Agency/Naval Security Group) command in the operations section. I am still in daily contact with many former, retired and current members of the intel community many of whom are my friends as well as colleagues. Over the years I have also worked with other spooks from all the military services as well as the CIA/DIA. I am not unfamiliar with the day to day nuts and bolts operations within that very small community. GH - Original Message - GH From: Friedrich Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] GH To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] GH Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 17:00 GH Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I wonder why nobody talks about that 9/11 hapened at GWB's wach !!! Fritz GH Maybe because it was planned, organized, and rehearsed on Clinton's watch. GH That's right, the pilots were undergoing the 2+ yrs of flight training GH while Clinton was in office.Did I forget to add that Clinton cut the GH intelligent budgets, back to the point that human gathered intelligence was GH cut back to the point that it was virtually nonexistent, opting to rely on GH satellite gathered intelligence?What about the fact that it was planned GH by a man, that the US had 3 chances to have arrested and be delivered to the GH US, for trial on other charges, had Clinton accepted on anyone of those 3 GH times. Somehow people have the mistaken notion that all problems can be fixed by throwing money at them. Had Clinton expanded the intel budget ten fold it would not have made a whit of difference. In the middle east it is extremely difficult to get on-the-ground human intel resources. Next to impossible. Money would have made no difference whatsoever. How much money are the lives of oneself and ones family worth? And, who wants to help the patron of the Zionist cause even against the Iraqi dictator? One needs to understand the geopolitical thoughts and attitudes of folks before making decisions about what has happened and the why's and wherefore's of the events. Money was NEVER the problem. GH Someone pointed out a news a story about how over 100,000 hrs of audio tape GH intelligence ( gathered from the satellites that Clinton loved ) from before GH the 9/11, has yet to be translated, and somehow it was Bushes fault ( How GH much of this is from before Bush took Office? Just as a guess, I would say GH most of it, that much just doesn't come in over night. ).That is over 11 GH years worth of translating for 1 person, if they did nothing else with their GH lives - or 2,500 40 hr work weeks.Let's do the math, Bush was in office GH 9 months, and 11 years worth of audio tape needed to be translated, and this GH was to be done in less than 4 years?No Way! GH Clinton had 8 years of various terrorist attacks against US targets overseas GH and he didn't make it a priority to find out exactly who was doing what GH Clinton didn't make a priority of having audio intelligence translated GH faster, if he had allocated funds for 25 translators, he would have known GH who was doing what and could have it taken care of in less than 3 years. GH Greg H. When working an intel billet whether civilian or military the first thing one learns is to look at the raw data with eyes which are detached from ones own personal political/religious/cultural bias. If one fails to do that then no matter how good the intel the analysis will be flawed and may cause unforseen damage to the interests of ones country. Intelligence collection and analysis must be neutral in order to be correctly and effectively used. The long and short of the 11 years of untranslated tapes is that they were not the problem. The administration from Bush on down had all the hard intel they needed but they ignored that because they were using bad, marginal and false intel to further their own partisan political agenda and not for the interests of either our country or that of either Afghanistan or Iraq. The neocons, all Zionists to a person and none of whom have served in the military, were in a position to run all intelligence through the office of Doug Feith, another neocon, and what was publicly reported was picked and chosen according to the aims of the neocons. This is the first time in the history of the US intelligence services that such a thing has ever happened on such a scale. What is even more startling and disturbing
Re[4]: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Hallo Jonathan, Friday, 22 October, 2004, 13:11:27, you wrote: JS Gustl, can I ask you what the definition of the term spook you JS are referring to? Just curious. Thanks. Jonathan. JS Happy Happy, JS Gustl In the military personnel working in intel units are referred to as spooks. I assume this is because of all the secrecy surrounding the work and because generally you never know they are there. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. Mitglied-Team AMIGA ICQ: 22211253-Gustli The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewšhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Actually, all of the people that I know who do not own TV sets or allow their kids to watch TV are true liberals. I know more than a few Republicans, living in Indiana, and they ALL let their kids watch all of the Nickelodeon they want. Of course, many are so fed up with the way things are that they are planning to stay home on Nov. 2. They can't bring themselves to vote for Kerry, but also refuse to vote for more of the same. And, you're right, Hank would be a much better choice than four more years. I think that Todd summed it up best, so I won't bother pointing out the obvious yet again. Brian Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. Again, the old lie that to be anti-Bush is anti-American. The ideals on which this country were founded are at stake here. To be pro-Bush is to be anti-American, and anyone that takes the blinders off can see that clearly. The greatest patriot that this country has seen in many years if Michael Moore, but you refuse to see how he stands for the principles that used to make this country great far more than your fearless leader. Hopefully it's a majority that can. Brian = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter, the premier email notification software. Free download at http://www.ePrompter.com. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
What I did notice was an all encompassing blanket statement, which generally places its propigator in an untenable position straight out of the chute. To your credit you acknowledge that somewhat. Don't watch tele here. So I can't say one way or another what would be considered healthy children's fair. But then again, it's all rather subjective, dependant upon the preconceived notions of those adults casting judgment, eh? Captain Kangaroo and Children's Film Festival (Kukla, Fran Ollie) seem to have gotten tens of millions of children off to reasonable adulthoods. Safe bet that those who were entertained by both are a fairly diverse mix of present day demographics, not just one shade or another. As for your premise of others perhaps thinking this to be an anti-bush or anti-american list? It's probably an equally safe bet that in its whole this list more anti-wrongness than anything else, no matter what flavour it happens to come in. If one thing tends to pop up as being more wrong more often than another on this list, there's probably a long ring of truth to be found in such sounding. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
The greatest patriot that this country has seen in many years if Michael Moore??? bwaahahhhahhahhahha . I think you meant the greatest idiot, but then there are a few others that would have to share that title, like Pat Robertson, Jesse Jackson, David Duke, Peewee Herman, etc. = = = Original message = = = you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. Again, the old lie that to be anti-Bush is anti-American. The ideals on which this country were founded are at stake here. To be pro-Bush is to be anti-American, and anyone that takes the blinders off can see that clearly. The greatest patriot that this country has seen in many years if Michael Moore, but you refuse to see how he stands for the principles that used to make this country great far more than your fearless leader. Hopefully it's a majority that can. Brian = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Sent by ePrompter
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I disagree. Hakan's clear distinction holds good. Many are indeed against US foreign policy, or US policy in general, and that includes many Americans, and it is not being anti-American. We long ago and often since emphasised the difference between Washington on the one hand and Americans on the other. In fact I challenge you to find an instance of anti-Americanism here. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. We've been through this before Steve. If you're going to say posts are half truths and hateful misinformation you have to say WHY, remember? Else it's just your opinion, not the fact you present it as being. In case you forget, last time you settled for it being nothing but your opinion. You can do that this time too if you like, but you have to choose, and you have to specify. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. Well, if you want to speak up for the other side once in a great while, of course you're welcome, but then don't run away from the consequences saying you've better things to do. Finish what you start. Otherwise it's what we've called hit and run tactics, and we take a dim view of it. Best Keith = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
President Carter.) You know, for a guy that doesn't have enough time to address what he stirs up, you sure do like to keep that ladle moving. Please, would you do everyone a very big service and point to the half-truths (plural) and misinformation that you are eluding to? And when you've addressed those claims, please be so kind as to zero in on what aspects are hateful. I would think that if you take such great acception with what others state that you would redress those statements specifically and steer clear of overly broad and sweeping generalizations. But then again, that type of evasiveness does serve it's purpose, doesn't it? Nothing wrong with a differing in beliefs. But it would be rather nice to see you put some substantiation in print. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
It would take too long to go over all the posts that really blow it. There are so many of them. I'm going to stick with biofuels and related topics, and leave it to the rest of you muckrakers. I'm not the one who stirs stuff up, but I sure get beat over the head when I ocassionaly object to the stirring that goes on. You sure like it one sided. = = = Original message = = = There you go again Steve. (Ronald Reagan, nationally televised debate with President Carter.) You know, for a guy that doesn't have enough time to address what he stirs up, you sure do like to keep that ladle moving. Please, would you do everyone a very big service and point to the half-truths (plural) and misinformation that you are eluding to? And when you've addressed those claims, please be so kind as to zero in on what aspects are hateful. I would think that if you take such great acception with what others state that you would redress those statements specifically and steer clear of overly broad and sweeping generalizations. But then again, that type of evasiveness does serve it's purpose, doesn't it? Nothing wrong with a differing in beliefs. But it would be rather nice to see you put some substantiation in print. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed the point Steve. When you say Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. you corroborate that the majority of parents of those children are supposedly going to vote for John Kerry. That was, after all, the point of the poll - that children are perhaps a reasonably accurate barometer of the adult voting population. As for the rest of your remarks? Sorry to see that after three years of so many mistakes and errors in judgement you still believe that a myopically focused zealot who disregards reality and real world appraisals at every opportunity and corner is to be deemed more highly than those who examine all facets of a scenario and are capable of balancing decisions based upon broader and longer range consequences. Being resolute yet consistantly wrong are not quallities to be highly prized - no more for leader of the school grounds sandbox than a country. Mr. Bush reflects the contemporary, corporate, American mindset - quarterly results to impress stockholders, not long term profits that insure stability. Unfortunately, his repeat quarterly performances are so dismal as to warrant his ouster. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Well it was the adults who elected gwb in 2000. A man even prior to 9-11 who was proven eager to lie or waffle, however you want to put it, if it served his ends. Worse yet who was effectively willing to deal with the Taliban terrorists on Nov. 10, 2001. Using gwb's own rhetoric to judge him by, he should be on trial for criminal negligence, much less removed from office. I rather would have better choices but, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Doug - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry : Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) : : Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/2004 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
Wake up for a change to the number of ways you keep copping out. You make claims and then don't substantiate them. You claim one-sidedness but don't offer anything, much less anything credible to the side you claim is under represented. Face it. You implicate, instigate and leave a trail of innuendo and then walk away as if you're the one who's been dissed. There are only three possible conclusions to draw from such actions. Either your arguments don't have any legs to stand on, your intent is simply to discredit and malign, or a combination of both. You claim you're not the one who stirs stuff up. Well, you're only being partially honest. You do more than your share. Take this thread for instance. A published poll result which you were the first to jump on and twist into a non-sensical set of sweeping statements. For that? Yes. You and anyone else deserves to get whalluped upside the head. BS deserves that type of treatment. I for one would like to hear some justification for your position other than emotion. I can expect that from the local university ROTC major. I can expect it from the prof in Environmental Engineering/Studies who is pulling together a campus biodiesel facility. Hell, I can even expect it from my radical, right wing, conservative, Christian, post-master who's going to vote for an off-the-wall party candidate. Why can't it be expected from you, or anyone else for that matter? Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry It would take too long to go over all the posts that really blow it. There are so many of them. I'm going to stick with biofuels and related topics, and leave it to the rest of you muckrakers. I'm not the one who stirs stuff up, but I sure get beat over the head when I ocassionaly object to the stirring that goes on. You sure like it one sided. = = = Original message = = = There you go again Steve. (Ronald Reagan, nationally televised debate with President Carter.) You know, for a guy that doesn't have enough time to address what he stirs up, you sure do like to keep that ladle moving. Please, would you do everyone a very big service and point to the half-truths (plural) and misinformation that you are eluding to? And when you've addressed those claims, please be so kind as to zero in on what aspects are hateful. I would think that if you take such great acception with what others state that you would redress those statements specifically and steer clear of overly broad and sweeping generalizations. But then again, that type of evasiveness does serve it's purpose, doesn't it? Nothing wrong with a differing in beliefs. But it would be rather nice to see you put some substantiation in print. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry I did not imply that being anti-bush is being anti-american. But we have many on this list that are both. I don't believe I'm required to listen to one side, without speaking up for the other side once in a great while. Especially when I see half truths and hateful misinformation being spread. 99% of my posts are of biofuel, or alternative living content. Many here post mostly political rhetoric, and although it's allowed, it does say something about that person. On that note, I have an busted inverter to repair, or we are on candle light tonight. I'm sure I'm going to get an inbox full of response that I won't feel like reading when I have more ontopic things to work on. = = = Original message = = = Steve, You have been so long on the list, that you know that the Americans are an minority. If you looked at the latest international polls, the international communities are quite ant-Bush. To say that if you are anti-Bush, you are anti-American, is a dirty blow and way under the belt and it is nothing that suggest or support such a statement. You must have a fairly low opinion of foreigners mental capacity, if you belive that we cannot keep our opinions about US administration policies and Americans in general apart. It is you who connects them. Hakan At 04:30 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: you missed Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) which skews the polls to primarily democrats. I can't prove that claim, but it sounds good. That channel (among others) will turn there minds to mush. My kids prefer the wings channel, wich I bet would have given completely different results. Sorry to see after three years, you still feel it's necesary to attack and drive away those with opposing (not necessarily wrong) viewpoints. somebody had to speak up, or folks will think this is the anti-bush, anti-american list, not the biofuel list. = = = Original message = = = Me thinks you missed
Re: [Biofuel] Kids Opt for Kerry
You've got to love those kids. They recognize a winner when they hear one. Don't be to harsh on them. How were they to know someone wouldn't like the results after that there in? They picked Clinton and the Bush's and now their moving on with Kerry. Someone had to win. Maybe next time, eh? Cheers Steve Spence wrote: Good thing we don't let kids vote. Of course they believe whatever their parents do at that age. That's why we let them develop brains before we let them vote. Republicans don't let their kids watch Nickelodeon, they have more sense than that ;-) Here's hoping for 4 years of anyone but Kerry. Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf maybe? Won't be the first time a dead man got voted in for office. = = = Original message = = = Kids Opt for Kerry in Bellwether Online Poll October 20, 2004 by Reuter http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-08.htm LOS ANGELES - The kids have spoken, and it's Sen. John Kerry with a convincing victory over President Bush on Nov. 2. An unusual opinion poll that has correctly predicted the winner of the last four presidential elections has given Democratic challenger Kerry 57 percent against 43 percent for Bush, according to results released on Wednesday. The Nickelodeon cable channel, better known for programs SpongeBob Squarepants and Jimmy Neutron, conducted Kids Vote, an online survey of almost 400,000 children on Tuesday. The latest Reuters/Zogby poll showed Bush and Kerry in a dead heat two weeks before the Nov. 2 election. Other polls also showed them in a statistical tie or Bush holding a slim lead. Nickelodeon, a unit of Viacom Inc., has organized its poll every election since 1988, and has a 100 percent record of picking the winner. The 'Kids' Vote' seems to work as a good barometer of the actual presidential vote because, developmentally, kids between the ages of two and 11 share the same opinions and outlooks as their parents, said Cyma Zarghami, president of Nickelodeon Television. The survey was the final step in a yearlong political awareness campaign on Nickelodeon. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
