Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Am 16.03.2018 um 15:02 schrieb Jonathon Rossi: > > Agreed, Australia isn't even mentioned. After looking for at the > source of that page I now understand why no one edits it, crazy yaml > and it's localised: >

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

I am the Michael Collinson mentioned by Simon, (hello Simon, it has been a while!). I still lurk on this list and after a long gap will be spending time in Australia each year. I am in Melbourne at the moment and look forward to meeting mappers here on my hopefully less busy visit later this

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Am 14.03.2018 um 22:50 schrieb Graeme Fitzpatrick: > > > OK, a stupid, well & truly outside the box, thought here! :-) > > If we have discussions with CC, is there any possibility of getting > them to write into CC BY 4.5 & following editions, that "by the > Organisation agreeing to the terms of

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Thanks mate - much nicerer! (at least for these tired old eyes) :-) Good luck with your continuing efforts Thanks Graeme On 14 March 2018 at 23:12, Andrew Harvey wrote: > Hey Graeme, > > Really appreciate the feedback! > > > What does the black type for CC BY 4.0

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

On 13 March 2018 at 19:47, Simon Poole wrote: > > * a small note on the side, when discussing ODbL and CC BY 4.0 > compatibility with Creative Commons, representatives of the organisation > voiced the opinion that most of the rewrite was just clarification of > terms that the

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Apologises, I missed that. BCC definitely seem one of the most progressive Australian agencies surrounding open data so that should go well. Thanks again for your work. On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 11:37 PM Andrew Harvey wrote: > Oh I was referring to the Brisbane City

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Oh I was referring to the Brisbane City Council data you mentioned not DNRM. On 15 Mar. 2018 12:26 am, "Jonathon Rossi" wrote: I'll reach out to them to see if we can get the waiver completed tomorrow, > in the meantime I've added it too the list. > This isn't intended to

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

> > I'll reach out to them to see if we can get the waiver completed tomorrow, > in the meantime I've added it too the list. > This isn't intended to sound rude, but why do you think they would have a different opinion on the CC BY 2.5 waiver and not just get the same response Joel received? It

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

> I like the idea of getting a fresh agreement about attribution to continue using the CC BY 2.5/3.0 licensed data, even if we cannot use the CC BY 4.0 data today. I don't think it would be hard to get the rights holder's okay that they are happy with our attribution of their data. Agreed, that's

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Am 14.03.2018 um 13:06 schrieb Jonathon Rossi: > ... > > Could you please point me to a good resource that explains why CC BY > 2.5 and 3.0 don't have the same problem with "technical protection > measures" that we've got in the waivers because I'm obviously missing > something. I've read the

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

> > No, that was a deliberate attempt to take this discussion off-list as > I'm not sure that there is much point in raking over old mistakes > unless we are trying to learn from our mistakes. > I know at least I am learning a lot about the whole licensing area and from these past mistakes here

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

To give a bit more context and perhaps point out a way to resolve this without every thing blowing up: At the time the permission from data.gov.au was obtained, OSM was in the final stages of the licence change. Normally the LWG wouldn't have become directly involved at all in the matter of

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

On 13/03/18 17:16, Jonathon Rossi wrote: I hope you don't mind me replying back on list and that it was just an accident not CCing the list. No, that was a deliberate attempt to take this discussion off-list as I'm not sure that there is much point in raking over old mistakes unless we are

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

I hope you don't mind me replying back on list and that it was just an accident not CCing the list. Your interpretation makes sense to me the way you explained it, I hadn't noticed that detail. I assume you expect that if the data.gov.au team really meant to include other non-Australian

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

On 13/3/18 10:32, Simon Poole wrote: All that said, does data.gov.au actually have any geospatial datasets anymore? Seems as if that has moved to http://www.nationalmap.gov.au Yes. http://www.nationalmap.gov.au is a graphical frontend for data.gov.au.

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

> > On 13/3/18 10:32, Simon Poole wrote: > > you are assuming that > > data.gov.au received the data from the states on the same terms as > > everybody else, that really doesn't have to be so. > > What makes you think I'm assuming anything? To publish data on > data.gov.au an organization has to

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

> All that said, does data.gov.au actually have any geospatial > datasets anymore? Seems as if that has moved to > http://www.nationalmap.gov.au For Queensland, all geospatial data is now available from: http://qldspatial.information.qld.gov.au/

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

On 13/3/18 10:32, Simon Poole wrote: you are assuming that data.gov.au received the data from the states on the same terms as everybody else, that really doesn't have to be so. What makes you think I'm assuming anything? To publish data on data.gov.au an organization has to register

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

On 12.03.2018 21:28, Andrew Davidson wrote: > On 12/03/18 22:57, Simon Poole wrote: >> >> - has the DNRM explicitly made a statement on the validity of the >> explicit permission from data.gov.au back then?  > > All you need is a basic understanding of the Australian system of > government. A

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

On 12/03/18 22:57, Simon Poole wrote: - has the DNRM explicitly made a statement on the validity of the explicit permission from data.gov.au back then? All you need is a basic understanding of the Australian system of government. A federal bureaucrat does not have the authority to make

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

, but make it a general “CC BY 4.0 vs ODbL” compatibility waiver. Cheers, Thorsten From: Jonathon Rossi <j...@jonorossi.com> Sent: Monday, 12 March 2018 22:23 To: Simon Poole <si...@poole.ch> Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM,

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Cheers Simon, that makes sense. I have to defer to those who have contacted DNRM via private email whether DNRM have made any explicit remarks over the previous permission. I was initially getting the feeling from some comments that there was some legal evidence, but I've not seen anything. I

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Am 12.03.2018 um 11:47 schrieb Jonathon Rossi: > Sorry Simon, I really didn't intend to make things more complicated. I > just wanted to ensure someone else doesn't get caught in the future > after thinking I was doing the right thing, and no one else has done > this each time this has come up in

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Hey Joel, Jonathon, great to see your efforts to try to get this through. As an aside I'm working on cataloguing Australian open data potentially useful for OSM with the goal to get the OSMF waiver completed for them all. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Data_Catalogue In cases

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Sorry Simon, I really didn't intend to make things more complicated. I just wanted to ensure someone else doesn't get caught in the future after thinking I was doing the right thing, and no one else has done this each time this has come up in the past. I've made your suggested change to the page

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Am 12.03.2018 um 11:13 schrieb Simon Poole: > > > Making clear that we don't the validity of the permission granted for > the CC BY 2.5 datasets, but don't extend it to covering the current > ones and avoid speculating on internal government arrangements way back. > That should have been: ..

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Please folks, don't try to a) make this more complicated than it already is, b) try to undo stuff that is long done. I would consider the wording change on the contributors page to be not a good idea (or even factual), and would suggest that  it be changed from "The explicit permission granted

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

> Have we necessarily exhausted all our options? I only ever asked DNRM, I know of other dataset from different agencies which is also CC-BY 4.0. This is also why I added a heading for the "data.gov.au" text, it was sitting directly under the "Commonwealth of Australia" previously, the

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Have we necessarily exhausted all our options? I only ever asked DNRM, I know of other dataset from different agencies which is also CC-BY 4.0. Also is it really needed to redact all that DCDB stuff? That was imported back when we had permission right? On 12/03/18 17:07, Jonathon Rossi wrote: >

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

I'm glad you mentioned that Ian, because I started looking at what we'd have to "redact" and it is very mixed up with data from DCDB and survey, so we'd loose heaps. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=Natural+Resources+and+Mines#values

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Thanks Ian, that makes sense, glad to get a few more people involved in this discussion. With the comment in mind I've amended the text to this for now: > The explicit permission granted by the data.gov.au team (operated by the Digital Transformation Agency) is no longer viewed as valid as there

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

We need the right form of words. I completely agree we should not rely on data.gov.au permission for any new datasets. However, I'm not sure we want words that would give someone justification to go down the redaction path for existing data sets. We were given permission by one arm of the

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Thanks Andrew, and thanks again for flagging my use a few months back. Can we once and for all publicly note the "data.gov.au permission can of worms", even if that is simply adding to the existing Contributions page text noting exactly what everyone "in the know" knows about the problem, OSM

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Yeap, this has already been covered before: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2017-March/011291.html On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Jonathon Rossi wrote: > The CC-BY 2.5 attribution was granted by the data.gov.au team not DNRM > (or a former named

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

There is a bunch of very outdated info which I don't think is relevant to this on the discussion/talk page on this too: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Contributors#Australian_government_public_information_datasets Is anyone familiar with the Licensing Working Group, should we defer this

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

It appears so, and they just have a boilerplate response to these types of questions now. Since we are stuck between DNRM and OSMF on CC-BY 4.0 (in no ill way) it would be good to at least clear up the current position so others don't get caught like me. The CC-BY 2.5 attribution was granted by

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Yeah pretty much, I interpret it as "We will not deviate from CC-BY 4.0". On 12/03/18 14:37, Jonathon Rossi wrote: > Is that (second sentence) word for word the same response you got the > first time, where they thought they'd have to relicense under the ODbL? > > P.S. sorry about not replying

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Is that (second sentence) word for word the same response you got the first time, where they thought they'd have to relicense under the ODbL? P.S. sorry about not replying all with my last email. On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:31 PM, Joel H. <95.5.ra...@gmail.com> wrote: > OK everyone, Here is the

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Joel, Did you get a response from DNRM? Are you still in talks with them? On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:07 PM Jonathon Rossi wrote: > Great to hear Joel, I was actually wondering last night if you'd already > sent this off. > > I'm not an expert in this area so happy for others

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Great to hear Joel, I was actually wondering last night if you'd already sent this off. I'm not an expert in this area so happy for others to correct me, however my reading of your description of the second section that DNRM needs to waive doesn't explain to someone not familiar with what we are

Re: [talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Looks good to me. Simon Am 01.02.2018 um 12:08 schrieb Joel H.: > > Hi All! I have made a response to DNRM, regarding the licensing for > locality boarders. Please give a critique before I send! > > > /Hello [NAME],// > // > //Thank you for your time and consideration regarding the approval for

[talk-au] I have written a response to DNRM, please give feedback

Hi All! I have made a response to DNRM, regarding the licensing for locality boarders. Please give a critique before I send! /Hello [NAME],// // //Thank you for your time and consideration regarding the approval for OpenStreetMap.// // //As a response to your concern over the licence change,