Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 01-Sep-08, at 1:47 AM, leblatt wrote: No big deal, but when I hit « reply » on a talk@openstreetmap.org message, it replies to the message originator, not the list. I have to hit “reply all”, and remove the originator. On the French ML, I just have to hit “reply”, as in most MLs. I use outlook as a mail reader. Is this a problem ? seems to be something just added - I hope the listadmin will revert. (this being one of the longest running flames on mailing lists: 'where does reply-to go?' A quick flick through the archives would reveal that this is not a new feature but something which has been discussed before. It catches me out too, from time to time... It's been left this way after discussion. Strange but true.. Mark -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIu5XTJfMmcSPNh94RAnb5AJ9DZl7BgbasNthjPjghUDx2TeyluQCePAWA 7RTPhn8tF9zPox1/yQ+m/v0= =w8FT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 10:31:30AM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On 01-Sep-08, at 10:00 AM, Christopher Woods wrote: (I have little experience of other mail clients, particularly outside of the win32 sphere - do other mail clients behave differently (and 'correctly' as I would describe it, when you hit reply on this list?) until saturday, clicking 'reply' on this list was going to the list. Now it is going to the sender - which is why you are getting two copies of this. Which is how i like it - I am filtering all the lists to their individual folder but once i participate in a thread i want it in my inbox. Most lists work like this and filtering dupes is much easier than trying to guess which of the mails only to the list have your content too. What annoys me is the Subject addition - i filter to folders so i know which list this mail came from so why waste subject length by adding the list name too? But in the end its an BSD vs Linux, emacs vs vi, mysql vs postgres type of war which has no clear better. Flo -- Florian Lohoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
Lance Dyas schrieb: leblatt wrote: No big deal, but when I hit « reply » on a talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org message, it replies to the message originator, not the list. I have to hit “reply all”, and remove the originator. On the French ML, I just have to hit “reply”, as in most MLs. I use outlook as a mail reader. Is this a problem ? No I use Thunderbird and it has the same effect for me.. OpenLayers is the only other mailing list with this stupid setting and it annoys the hell out of me.. If I want to reply privately to a public conversation I should have to go out of my way to do that not the other way around I guess you are not aware of the reply all button in thunderbird which does send to the mailing list, so it's only logical that reply does not send to the ML. Yes, reply all does send a copy directly to the author, but mailman is intelligent enough so you can tell it not to send dupes to people addressed directly (unless addressed by BCC, in which case there is no way to tell there was a dupe in the first place) -- Dirk-Lüder Deelkar Kreie Bremen - 53.0952°N 8.8652°E signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path rendering in the cycleway
Hi, robin paulson wrote: I think we shouldn't vote on tags at all. Instead, we should monitor what gets used most by the mappers (see Tagwatch and the tool announced by Schuyler Erle). one of the problems with this, is that it's highly likely two mappers will develop two contrasting, but both valid methods of mapping the same object, and use them liberally. then some other mappers will follow one way, and some other mappers will follow the other way. then we have a jumbled data model. ... which can be fixed at a later time, if desired. Trying to create rules upfront runs a high risk of being impractical. And frankly, if our mappers' creativity leads to two or three different ways of tagging the same thing (but at least it gets mapped well), what's the big deal? The alternative is trying to force them to agree on one way of doing it, which (worst case) can make 49% of them unhappy and/or unwilling to map the item in question. If I can get 100 people to map something by allowing three different ways of doing it, then this is much better than getting only 51 people mapping it the one true way. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] arbitrary markers on main map
now that auckland's got pretty good coverage, i've been using it for map links to send to people, rather than relying on other services. the problem is, it can be difficult to indicate where exactly i am showing them to go e.g. i sent someone directions to my house, and along with the link to the map, had to tell them the street name, and whereabouts on the street i was (in between street A and B). all of this is a bit clumsy, and relies on there being other distinguishing marks nearby. is there anything in openlayers that let's a user arbitrarily place a marker - say a bright red arrow - on a map, to highlight a point, and the send a link that includes the marker? to give a link something like: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.798lon=174.397zoom=15layers=0B0FTFmlon=-36.798mlat=174.397 where: mlat is the latitude of the marker, and mlon is the longitude of the marker? ah, looks like there is: http://dev.openlayers.org/releases/OpenLayers-2.6/doc/apidocs/files/OpenLayers/Marker-js.html from the ol docs any chance of adding this to the main map, administrators? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] arbitrary markers on main map
John McKerrell wrote: Funnily enough, that link you sent through should actually work and do exactly what you want, I'm not sure why it didn't. This one does: http://openstreetmap.org/?mlat=-36.7mlon=174.75006zoom=15layers=0B0FTFlat=-36.88822lon=174.7553 I don't think there's a simple way to create those links other than just recentering the map where you want the marker, clicking on permalink and then putting m in front of the lat/lon parameters. thanks for the help, tom and john. the link i sent was actually a guess, didn't realise i'd hit on the right syntax it didn't show, cos the marker was off the visible area what i actually was driving towards, but explained badly, was a button that anyone could click at the edge of the map, then anywhere on the map to place the marker. i suggested this rather than adding numbers to the url, as the latter is probably beyond the average users of the map - if not in technical skills, then at least in patience i'm sure there must be way to do this without mangling urls? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Menorca under the water
El Lunes, 1 de Septiembre de 2008, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio escribió: Menorca was once part of the British empire. In fact, some Menorcan old peasants still say 'vindou' (from the English 'window') instead of the Latin 'finestra'. So I think they deserve something better than this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.964lon=4.046zoom=11layers=B00FTF The JOSM validator shows up 3 ways as Unclosed way: natural type coastline. However, those 3 ways (10315149, 10315235 and 10315167, on the east end of Menorca) appear to be connected to the rest of the coastline. I'm puzzled. -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega [EMAIL PROTECTED] Water, taken in moderation cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] arbitrary markers on main map
blank - Original Message - From: robin paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] arbitrary markers on main map John McKerrell wrote: Funnily enough, that link you sent through should actually work and do exactly what you want, I'm not sure why it didn't. This one does: http://openstreetmap.org/?mlat=-36.7mlon=174.75006zoom=15layers=0B0FTFlat=-36.88822lon=174.7553 I don't think there's a simple way to create those links other than just recentering the map where you want the marker, clicking on permalink and then putting m in front of the lat/lon parameters. thanks for the help, tom and john. the link i sent was actually a guess, didn't realise i'd hit on the right syntax it didn't show, cos the marker was off the visible area what i actually was driving towards, but explained badly, was a button that anyone could click at the edge of the map, then anywhere on the map to place the marker. i suggested this rather than adding numbers to the url, as the latter is probably beyond the average users of the map - if not in technical skills, then at least in patience i'm sure there must be way to do this without mangling urls? Go to the Export tab on www.openstreetmap.org, choose embeddable HTML click add marker to map copy the Iframe output and see the URL it contains David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] arbitrary markers on main map
2008/9/1 David Groom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i'm sure there must be way to do this without mangling urls? Go to the Export tab on www.openstreetmap.org, choose embeddable HTML click add marker to map copy the Iframe output and see the URL it contains David yes, that does the trick - eventually. but it's not particularly intuitive. i'm looking for something i can use, but also something for the average user. i'm sure it's a common need - especially as we can't do searches for street numbers, or even street names. i'd love to be able to spread the word of osm by sending links to people, but expecting someone to search through a screenful of inner-city streets, is too much to ask ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Connecting ferry routes to roads?
- Original Message - From: Dan Karran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: osm talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Connecting ferry routes to roads? I fixed up the Isle of Man Steam Packet ferry route so that it goes all the way into Douglas harbour in the Isle of Man again. While I was at it, I connected it up with the road network so that routing programmes could route traffic through it as well. Is this common practice, and is there a standard way of linking them in? I've just linked the route to a service road which is connected to the rest of the road network. That seems to make sense and is how I have been mapping vehicle ferry routes. However I'm not quite sure what to do with ferry routes which are for foot passengers and available for cyclists, but not for motorcars.. Following the logic above I would connect the ferry route to the nearest highway with a footway tag. Although this would allow routing for cyclists and pedestrians this seems wrong to me. For instnace the high speed poassenger service from Southamption to East Cowes http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.89469lon=-1.40605zoom=17layers=B00FTF I have not conncted to the highway down the pier, as it would produce short stubs of footway rendered on the maps which really are just corridors through buildings, but this means at the moment the ferry route is unconnected to anything. David Cheers, Dan -- Dan Karran [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.dankarran.com ___ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] ferry route speed
When tagging ferry routes is anyone tagging ferry speed, and if so do you simply add maxspeed = ?? to thr route? david ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Tristan Scott wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 3:37 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch This is a request for comments (my first, so let me know if i've done it wrong!) on my waterway/ditch. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Ditch mainly as there's a large area of marshes around where I live, and the canal waterway tag is completely inappropriate for the still overgrown drainage ditches (too wide to jump, too overgrown and narrow to navigate, and not even remotely canal-like) I can get organised with a picture of the ditch if that's necessary. Note that ditchs are occasionally slubbed out, but every ditch i know of is more than 50 years old - so it's not as if they're seasonal. oh, and they're on Ordnance Survey maps as thin blue lines, if that's relevant. Map Features has always had a waterway=drain tag which was always intended for drains and ditches. I've been using that when I come across one. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
the Waterway=Drain tag has this description: A Drain is an artificial waterway used for carrying storm water or industrial discharge. To me, that seems unrelated to the ditches I have in mind: they don't carry storm water - normally the water table won't move much in a storm (at least in the UK) and the ditches stay were they are. They contain natural rainwater or saltwater from the marshes. Secondly, they don't really drain so much as just sit there - the fields around stay wet, the water doesn't really move. They're used as fences as much as somewhere to connect field drains to. here's a pic that seems to illustrate what i have in mind: http://web.ncf.ca/bf250/images/odditch.jpg It strikes me that tagging as drain loses the information that drains are usually empty unless draining something (like a storm) and also tend to be channels for water movement rather than just sort of long thin ponds, though I suppose we must lose information somewhere to avoid tag congestion. Maybe modifying and clarifying the scope of the drain tag would do? Thoughts? Tristan 2008/9/1 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tristan Scott wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 3:37 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch This is a request for comments (my first, so let me know if i've done it wrong!) on my waterway/ditch. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Ditch mainly as there's a large area of marshes around where I live, and the canal waterway tag is completely inappropriate for the still overgrown drainage ditches (too wide to jump, too overgrown and narrow to navigate, and not even remotely canal-like) I can get organised with a picture of the ditch if that's necessary. Note that ditchs are occasionally slubbed out, but every ditch i know of is more than 50 years old - so it's not as if they're seasonal. oh, and they're on Ordnance Survey maps as thin blue lines, if that's relevant. Map Features has always had a waterway=drain tag which was always intended for drains and ditches. I've been using that when I come across one. Cheers Andy -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services 01603 858441 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Just found a better image to illustrate a ditch: http://www.woodrow.org/teachers/esi/2001/CostaRica/palo_verde1/human-altered/images/ditch2.jpg Tristan 2008/9/1 Tristan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]: the Waterway=Drain tag has this description: A Drain is an artificial waterway used for carrying storm water or industrial discharge. To me, that seems unrelated to the ditches I have in mind: they don't carry storm water - normally the water table won't move much in a storm (at least in the UK) and the ditches stay were they are. They contain natural rainwater or saltwater from the marshes. Secondly, they don't really drain so much as just sit there - the fields around stay wet, the water doesn't really move. They're used as fences as much as somewhere to connect field drains to. here's a pic that seems to illustrate what i have in mind: http://web.ncf.ca/bf250/images/odditch.jpg It strikes me that tagging as drain loses the information that drains are usually empty unless draining something (like a storm) and also tend to be channels for water movement rather than just sort of long thin ponds, though I suppose we must lose information somewhere to avoid tag congestion. Maybe modifying and clarifying the scope of the drain tag would do? Thoughts? Tristan 2008/9/1 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tristan Scott wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 3:37 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch This is a request for comments (my first, so let me know if i've done it wrong!) on my waterway/ditch. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Ditch mainly as there's a large area of marshes around where I live, and the canal waterway tag is completely inappropriate for the still overgrown drainage ditches (too wide to jump, too overgrown and narrow to navigate, and not even remotely canal-like) I can get organised with a picture of the ditch if that's necessary. Note that ditchs are occasionally slubbed out, but every ditch i know of is more than 50 years old - so it's not as if they're seasonal. oh, and they're on Ordnance Survey maps as thin blue lines, if that's relevant. Map Features has always had a waterway=drain tag which was always intended for drains and ditches. I've been using that when I come across one. Cheers Andy -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services 01603 858441 07837 205829 -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services 01603 858441 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Tristan Scott wrote: Maybe modifying and clarifying the scope of the drain tag would do? Yes, good idea. I'm thinking in particular of the Middle Level and the Witham Navigable Drains which drain the surrounding fenlands, a bit like the ones you're referring to (though much of the ML and WND would need to be augmented with boat=yes). These are generally referred to as 'drains', not ditches. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
BTW - I hope you can even _read_ this mail because it's PGP/MIME signed). Quite legible ;) Outlook copes far better than I think some give it credit for! (and I'd like to see Thunderbird seamlessly sync with my WinMo smartphone, the last time I tried it as an alternative it munged half of my email repository and just 'broke' every time I tried to use it after that... Gave up and went back to Old Faithful after that :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] RFC: render explicitly used oneway=no
oneway=no is the default in most cases, so it is rarely needed tag. But once it is mentioned explicitly, it should be rendered somehow, as the mapper probably wants to emphasize this fact. Proposal: Use - symbol wherever oneway=no is explicitly used. Alternate proposal: New tag render_oneway=yes or new value for oneway=no:visible. Example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.07918lon=14.41608zoom=17layers=0B0FTFT Residential street Pstrossova consists of four segments (from up to down): - - - - Without proper rendering of a bi-dir arrow in the second segment, one will never guess, that the arrow from first and third arrow are invalid for the second segment and the whole area would become an unsolvable maze. oneway=no would be typically used in two cases: - One segment of one way street has traffic in both directions. - Overwriting the default for some types of way or relation. -- Stanislav Brabec http://www.penguin.cz/~utx ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Tristan Scott wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 4:43 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch the Waterway=Drain tag has this description: A Drain is an artificial waterway used for carrying storm water or industrial discharge. Don't read too much into the description, that was just one person's interpretation. ditches and drains all move groundwater, whether it run off the surface or migrates to them through land drains (the pipes that drain the fields). Ditch and drain could be interchangeable, I used drain in the original map features because the organisations that are responsible for most of them in the UK are called drainage boards. If water just sat there they would be of any use. In reality they do move water, just very slowly. Cheers Andy To me, that seems unrelated to the ditches I have in mind: they don't carry storm water - normally the water table won't move much in a storm (at least in the UK) and the ditches stay were they are. They contain natural rainwater or saltwater from the marshes. Secondly, they don't really drain so much as just sit there - the fields around stay wet, the water doesn't really move. They're used as fences as much as somewhere to connect field drains to. here's a pic that seems to illustrate what i have in mind: http://web.ncf.ca/bf250/images/odditch.jpg It strikes me that tagging as drain loses the information that drains are usually empty unless draining something (like a storm) and also tend to be channels for water movement rather than just sort of long thin ponds, though I suppose we must lose information somewhere to avoid tag congestion. Maybe modifying and clarifying the scope of the drain tag would do? Thoughts? Tristan 2008/9/1 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tristan Scott wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 3:37 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch This is a request for comments (my first, so let me know if i've done it wrong!) on my waterway/ditch. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/Ditch mainly as there's a large area of marshes around where I live, and the canal waterway tag is completely inappropriate for the still overgrown drainage ditches (too wide to jump, too overgrown and narrow to navigate, and not even remotely canal-like) I can get organised with a picture of the ditch if that's necessary. Note that ditchs are occasionally slubbed out, but every ditch i know of is more than 50 years old - so it's not as if they're seasonal. oh, and they're on Ordnance Survey maps as thin blue lines, if that's relevant. Map Features has always had a waterway=drain tag which was always intended for drains and ditches. I've been using that when I come across one. Cheers Andy -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services 01603 858441 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1644 - Release Date: 31/08/2008 4:59 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: render explicitly used oneway=no
2008/9/1 Stanislav Brabec [EMAIL PROTECTED]: oneway=no is the default in most cases, so it is rarely needed tag. But once it is mentioned explicitly, it should be rendered somehow, as the mapper probably wants to emphasize this fact. I sometimes tag in this way. The only case I can think of where I do it is that of motorway_link (or trunk_link, *_link), and in these cases, I think that a human map reader would usually infer the truth without requiring visual clues. My reasoning for the explicit tag in these cases is that some routing engines might consider that a link (which is usually a ramp) is usually one way, the same way roundabouts are supposed to be treated. So for my use, I don't see the need. But maybe there are other cases. Dermot -- -- Iren sind menschlich ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
Lance Dyas wrote: [...] The direct emails arent marked as coming through the list and are likely to end up in my spam bucketss... or just get overlooked. Well they are marked. For mailing lists like OSM I do not filter the email address but the subject. The [OSM-talk] part, stays in the subject, even if this has been a direct reply to your message. They are even correctly positioned in the thread in Thundbird here. So since everything which comes through the list has the [OSM] part in the subject and every reply which is sent directly to you has it either, I'd just change my filter from email address to subject and everythings as you like it. regards, Norbert PS: I sent this mail only to the list, just to be sure you don't consider this mail rude. ;-) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 05:07:32PM +, Chris Hill wrote: I think that a ditch is something I could just about jump over (maybe in my younger days anyway), whereas a drain is wider and possibly navigable. Then use width=10inch or whatever :-O ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: render explicitly used oneway=no
Stanislav Brabec wrote: oneway=no is the default in most cases, so it is rarely needed tag. But once it is mentioned explicitly, it should be rendered somehow, as the mapper probably wants to emphasize this fact. [...] I quite often use this tag, just because Mapnik has it in it's standard entries for roads and I just fill them because they are proposed. I would only render some arrows if the default behaviour of the street tagged oneway=no would be oneway=yes. That would make sense to me. Norbert smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
surely width=0.254 given width is defined as being in metres? I've been doing UK speed limits in km/h hoping they'll be marked in mph when the map is drawn (or when i render). Tristan 2008/9/1 spaetz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 05:07:32PM +, Chris Hill wrote: I think that a ditch is something I could just about jump over (maybe in my younger days anyway), whereas a drain is wider and possibly navigable. Then use width=10inch or whatever :-O ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services 01603 858441 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
(Resend because of wrong sender address) On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 05:35:17PM +0100, Christopher Woods wrote: BTW - I hope you can even _read_ this mail because it's PGP/MIME signed). Quite legible ;) Outlook copes far better than I think some give it credit for! I added that sentence because some of my customers using some corporate version of Outlook (!= Outlook Express, BTW) could _not_ read my mails. So there's a real-world problem here, not just bashing. And no, that wasn't it the 1990s but during the last few years. :-/ CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: render explicitly used oneway=no
Tordanik wrote: Alternate proposal: New tag render_oneway=yes or new value for oneway=no:visible. So it's plainly a rendering hint for a certain set of applications, right? Yes. Currently there is no way to specify, that the highway layout is very complex and the standard one arrow per defined distance may be confusing. See the link in the first mail for an example - one street has just only four segments, but each segment has a different oneway status (up, bi-dir, down, up). In Prague downtown there is a lot of streets that change oneway status in the middle or even reverse the direction in the middle (and one has to turn there). (Not for all of them, e.g. not for a renderer that uses colors to mark a oneway street. A renderer could also get most of these cases algorithmically. Actually, very hardly (find all objects connected to the same node, which either have the same name or they are continuing in an angle near to 180 degrees. If these objects have oneway tag and the part in question does not, then the part in question should be rendered with bi-dir arrow.). In future it may be simpler with Segmented tag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Segmented_Tag ) I do not really like this sort of tags, but I'd at least suggest that you explicitly state that it is application specific by using a osmarender: or rendering: prefix or something similar for the key. OK. What aboutthe next proposal: rendering:oneway=yes Rendering hint: The way has complex layout. oneway tag needs precise rendering. For example: Render arrow in each path segment, render double arrow for segments with oneway=no. Stanislav Brabec http://www.penguin.cz/~utx ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 07:25:12PM +0100, Tristan Scott wrote: surely width=0.254 given width is defined as being in metres? says who? I use meter as I live in continental Europe. But if I lived in the UK I would surely tag speelimits as maxspeed:mph=50 (or maxspeed=50mph) and not as some weird converted number. Fun if your Garmin tells you: the maximum speed here is 49.8789598 mph. If renderers couldn't cope (not that they care about maxspeed) I would consider it a fault of the renderer or of the preprocessor they are using to parse the planet file. wasn't the motto, tag the world as it is? well if speedlimit is 50mph, then it is 50 mph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] sac_scale calibration?
As an aspiring mountain-hiking-OSMer, I've been trying to get the hang of sac_scale. I know that the typical terrain and what's considered difficult can vary *a lot* depending, on the typical terrain around. Here in Bergen, Norway, we have a lot of mountains. Some steep, and some not-so-steep. But even the ones reachable from the city center can be demanding enough if you have no mountain-experience whatsoever. For reference, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Approved_features/Hiking is the approved features... What I find a little difficult, is the border between hiking, mountain_hiking and demanding_mountain_hiking. I guess the boundary to the alpine classes are more defined - that's when it starts to become impossible to get upwards and not fall down unless you also use your hands, in my book :) I have a few pictures, unfortunately they turned out a little difficult to see the steepness of them. Too few references. But, http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810086485/ is taken downwards. About 3-4 meters to the bottom, so I guess you'd hardly die if you slid and fell, but you could break a leg. But still, the path is rocky and you have to be careful, and some people would definitely need to use their hands for balance - as stated on the page. But there's no ropes etc. These ones, hiking or mountain-hiking? http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810112943/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810929816/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810080401/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810114907/ And would people tag only the difficult stretches as the most difficult classification, or would it be ok to do whole stretches (i.e. between destinations/junctions of paths) as single classification. I guess that a lot of this *is* actually up to me, but I'm a strong supporter of actually agreeing on this as long as we are actually editing the same map, sort of :) All input and opinions (and the rest in the series: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/tags/osm/) is welcome :) -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: render explicitly used oneway=no
Norbert Wenzel wrote: I quite often use this tag, just because Mapnik has it in it's standard entries for roads and I just fill them because they are proposed. I just saw the bullsh*t I wrote. I meant Merkaartor, not Mapnik. Shouldn't do three things at the same time I guess. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
And have you been convinced sending the author two messages...makes sense? or that the default behavior is a private response to a public conversation... I have even found direct emails quite close to rude.(mostly when the responder actually was rude) the default reply should simply target the list ... The direct emails arent marked as coming through the list and are likely to end up in my spam bucketss... or just get overlooked. I am in my forties and preger to learn new tricks that make sense and are generally useful.. fighting with my mail client to avoid double sending to folks isnt one of them. I don't necessarily agree on a personal level, but there's no use fighting the current when it's far stronger than you are individually. I've learnt that the hard way on other lists :( I'm in agreement with you... List emails should solely come from the list, not from individuals who are responding to a conversation you've previously taken part in. But, while I prefer to reply solely to the list's main address, if the default reply method for this list is to respond to individual correspondents and send the mail to the list address to deal with the other subscribers, then I suppose all I can do is shrug my shoulders and get used to it. On the odd occasion such as now, I'll manually edit the to: addresses and only put in the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list address (which I know seems a bit hypocritical given how I've sent previous emails in this list today) but if that's how the list admins have configured it then so be it. Pragmatism wins. Why don't I just keep on modifying the to: addresses each time I send a reply? Well, although it's a relatively minor operation, after a while it becomes too much of a hassle and too frustrating to have to go and clean out the recipient addresses every time. I'll just fire off a response and hit Send. I'm on a lot of lists and I can foresee it becoming very tiresome after a while - but as long as the other active participants don't mind correspondence being conducted in this manner, then who am I to go against the tide? shrug (... Unless you want to form an uprising with me and take over the list in a piratey style? (I already have September the 19th* block booked for activities of this manner if you're interested.)) (*see yarr.org.uk) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
The default responder to public conversation venues needs to be to just that ... There's no way OSM could change that default, it's up to your MUA vendor. The buttons you're currently using are reply (with an implied to author) and reply to all, not reply (default) and reply (alternative). The only thing OSM can do is to trick your MUA into believing the reply to author function should reply to the list instead. And note the last word I used: _instead_. It doesn't work as expected anymore, rendering the expected function unavailable. Please go bothering Microsoft (or Mozilla, or whatever your MUA vendor is) about it, not the list admins. They'd get beaten by the other side as soon as they'd change the behaviour, since this breaks how any sane MUA works. So for lists such as the BBC Backstage Majordomo list (which used to behave in the way this list currently does, but now puts in the appropriate list address when you hit Reply), are you saying that they've in fact bodged the list's setup and it's not strictly correct? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Monday 01 September 2008 19:07:13 Norbert Wenzel wrote: Lance Dyas wrote: [...] The direct emails arent marked as coming through the list and are likely to end up in my spam bucketss... or just get overlooked. Well they are marked. For mailing lists like OSM I do not filter the email address but the subject. The [OSM-talk] part, stays in the subject, even if this has been a direct reply to your message. They are even correctly positioned in the thread in Thundbird here. So since everything which comes through the list has the [OSM] part in the subject and every reply which is sent directly to you has it either, I'd just change my filter from email address to subject and everythings as you like it. Or just filter on the email header List-Id containing talk.openstreetmap.org. I believe a header like this is set for all mailman lists. An email client like KMail will do this easily (right click on a message and click 'create filter'-'filter on mailing list...'). This also helps avoid problems where mails are cross-posted between lists since you can sometimes end up with the subject beginning with [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Incidentally, in KMail, simply clicking reply will send to talk@openstreetmap.org though it does also have a 'reply to mailing list' button for the lists where that doesn't work. Regards, Matt Williams signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
vegard wrote: On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 09:05:56PM +0200, Sascha Silbe wrote: On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 01:39:33PM -0500, Lance Dyas wrote: The default responder to public conversation venues needs to be to just that ... There's no way OSM could change that default, it's up to your MUA vendor. The buttons you're currently using are reply (with an implied to author) and reply to all, not reply (default) and reply (alternative). Actually, yes and no. the mailing-list *could* add a reply-to header, to the list-adress. It's not a fool-proof method (what if the user also adds one?), but it makes an effort, at least, to tell the users that the reply-to should go to the list. This works great actually didnt realize that the header wasnt there... sure enough most of my lists have a reply to header/go figure.. the odd man out are not more technically correct they are just inconvenient on purpose and claiming to be more correct. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path rendering in the cycleway
Frederik Ramm wrote: which can be fixed at a later time, if desired. How? Say 100 different mappers are using a particular tag - 50 one way, 50 another way. How do you fix this at a later time without going back to the places on the map and working out which of the two possible situations is the one tagged, or asking all 100 mappers what they were doing? This is the point. Tags have insufficient semantic value in and of themselves. You need something which explains what each tag is for and when it should be used. Trying to create rules upfront runs a high risk of being impractical. Which is why we create rules as we go along. Creating rules up front vs. Having no rules is a false choice. And frankly, if our mappers' creativity leads to two or three different ways of tagging the same thing (but at least it gets mapped well), what's the big deal? The big problem is the reverse, when you have one way of tagging two or three different things. (See above.) Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] RFC: render explicitly used oneway=no
Norbert Wenzel wrote: I would only render some arrows if the default behaviour of the street tagged oneway=no would be oneway=yes. That would make sense to me. Yes, then my revised proposal - rendering:oneway=yes or rendering:complex_oneways=yes or something similar as a rendering hint to draw arrows for each segment would work better. Stanislav Brabec http://www.penguin.cz/~utx ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Monday 01 September 2008 20:57:59 Matt Williams wrote: On Monday 01 September 2008 19:07:13 Norbert Wenzel wrote: Lance Dyas wrote: [...] The direct emails arent marked as coming through the list and are likely to end up in my spam bucketss... or just get overlooked. Well they are marked. For mailing lists like OSM I do not filter the email address but the subject. The [OSM-talk] part, stays in the subject, even if this has been a direct reply to your message. They are even correctly positioned in the thread in Thundbird here. So since everything which comes through the list has the [OSM] part in the subject and every reply which is sent directly to you has it either, I'd just change my filter from email address to subject and everythings as you like it. Or just filter on the email header List-Id containing talk.openstreetmap.org. I believe a header like this is set for all mailman lists. An email client like KMail will do this easily (right click on a message and click 'create filter'-'filter on mailing list...'). This also helps avoid problems where mails are cross-posted between lists since you can sometimes end up with the subject beginning with [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Incidentally, in KMail, simply clicking reply will send to talk@openstreetmap.org though it does also have a 'reply to mailing list' button for the lists where that doesn't work. It was brought to my attention that my previous email had the Reply-To field set to my email address explicitly which (in KMail's case) overrode the ability for simply clicking on 'Reply' to reply to the list. However, for an email without the Reply-To field set, 'Reply' sends it to the list. This simply further shows that the hugely differing behaviour between mail client makes this a trick problem to solve. Regards, Matt (This email should not have the Reply-To field set) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Left and Right - a proposal
Andy Allan wrote: That's the main problem. You are now making a proposal that distinguishes nodes at the end of a way from non-terminating nodes - since only those in the middle can inherit a sense of direction from the way. True, but not a problem. There's no rule about how many nodes in a way, so if you want to do this, you can add another one near the end. This is no different to adding it 5m to the left of the end, it's just that it's now associated with the way in a relations lite sort of way (as Hugh described it). I'm also with frederick on the left/right thing (most bus stops are 'on the left', as far as I'm concerned - even when they are on opposite sides of the road) and the other objection with compass directions is valid for U-shaped roads. We need to decide whether these things are ways or roads. If they are roads, they need to have a thickness and be represented as such. (Then we can tag the two sides differently.) If they are ways, we need to stop thinking of road-related terminology when we talk about their properties. Pick one :-) The latitude and longitude of point objects should be as accurate as we can make them, and if they need some form of logical linking with something then we can logically link them without creating bogus latlongs :-) What is the lat and long of a parking restriction on one side of a road? Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fetegeo: free text geocoding
Some of you might be interested in an early-stages project I've released called Fetegeo, which is essentially a place name search engine: http://fetegeo.org/ Fetegeo is similar to the OSM Name Finder in many respects, but not identical. For example, it's intended to be relatively permissive in the input formats it accepts, usable in a wider range of contexts (in two senses: technologically it's in Python and can be used as a program library, a server etc.; practically it's intended to also be usable for things like classifying places into groups), be relatively independent from its data source (it currently uses mostly Geonames data, for breadth; one day I'd love to see it use OSM, for depth and accuracy), be relatively customisable (it's not a particularly big or tricky code base). Fetegeo is very much a 0.1 release, so there are probably bugs and oversights galore. However it's free (released under an MIT licence) and, having scratched my particular itch, I'm putting it out there in case other people find something interesting in it and wish to play with it. There's a public git repository, and a simple demo of using it to locate places on an OSM map (hence why I thought those on the OSM lists might be interested). Laurie -- http://tratt.net/laurie/ -- Personal http://fetegeo.org/ -- Free text geocoding http://convergepl.org/ -- The Converge programming language ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path rendering in the cycleway
Hi, OK, so several thousand people are using amenity=foo. Are they all using it for the same thing? How can you tell? true. There's landuse=farm on the Map Features page. Some used it for farm land, some for farm yards (thus farmyard had been introduced, which only solves half of the issue BTW). It similar to people using highway=footway for both paved and designated footways and just paths in the woods or the mountains. What I was meaning was the other way around: IMO there's nothing wrong with having more than one tagging scheme for one and the same thing. If there was highway=footway, highway=foot_way and highway=way.foot in the database, what's the (really huge) disadvantage? [...] And the lives of the renderer authors are made miserable if there are four different ways to tag the same feature, all of which are used in different areas of the map. I agree some additional code needs to be written to support multiple tagging schemes. But IMO it's not an issue (except of conceptual or language issues of the consumer). A shop=bakery in Great Britain surely will differ from a shop=boulangerie in France. But I could surely display them both on a map with the same icon. Cheers, ce ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Tristan Scott wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 7:25 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch surely width=0.254 given width is defined as being in metres? I've been doing UK speed limits in km/h hoping they'll be marked in mph when the map is drawn (or when i render). Don't assume anything ;-) Best guarantee is to include the unit on the value or as a separate key. Then there can be no confusion. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Lance Dyas wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 8:09 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch spaetz wrote: On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 05:07:32PM +, Chris Hill wrote: I think that a ditch is something I could just about jump over (maybe in my younger days anyway), whereas a drain is wider and possibly navigable. Then use width=10inch or whatever :-O heh .. I think a drain has fluid in it a ditch might not.. we called the edges train tracks ditches. Note I am typing with a midwest American accent.. not an english one. yeah, and when it rains heavily on that railroad, guess what happens to the ditch ;-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
spaetz wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 7:50 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 07:25:12PM +0100, Tristan Scott wrote: surely width=0.254 given width is defined as being in metres? says who? I use meter as I live in continental Europe. But if I lived in the UK I would surely tag speelimits as maxspeed:mph=50 (or maxspeed=50mph) and not as some weird converted number. Fun if your Garmin tells you: the maximum speed here is 49.8789598 mph. If renderers couldn't cope (not that they care about maxspeed) I would consider it a fault of the renderer or of the preprocessor they are using to parse the planet file. wasn't the motto, tag the world as it is? well if speedlimit is 50mph, then it is 50 mph exactly Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch
Chris Hill wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 6:08 PM To: Tristan Scott; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - waterways/ditch Maybe modifying and clarifying the scope of the drain tag would do? Thoughts? I think that a ditch is something I could just about jump over (maybe in my younger days anyway), whereas a drain is wider and possibly navigable. You are still describing the same thing though, only the width has changed. So you don't need an extra key to define the object, just add a key(s) to define the physical attributes, in this case perhaps a width= tag Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path rendering in the cycleway
Frederik Ramm wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 9:27 AM To: robin paulson Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Path rendering in the cycleway Hi, robin paulson wrote: I think we shouldn't vote on tags at all. Instead, we should monitor what gets used most by the mappers (see Tagwatch and the tool announced by Schuyler Erle). one of the problems with this, is that it's highly likely two mappers will develop two contrasting, but both valid methods of mapping the same object, and use them liberally. then some other mappers will follow one way, and some other mappers will follow the other way. then we have a jumbled data model. ... which can be fixed at a later time, if desired. Trying to create rules upfront runs a high risk of being impractical. And frankly, if our mappers' creativity leads to two or three different ways of tagging the same thing (but at least it gets mapped well), what's the big deal? The alternative is trying to force them to agree on one way of doing it, which (worst case) can make 49% of them unhappy and/or unwilling to map the item in question. If I can get 100 people to map something by allowing three different ways of doing it, then this is much better than getting only 51 people mapping it the one true way. here here Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Groom wrote: When tagging ferry routes is anyone tagging ferry speed, and if so do you simply add maxspeed = ?? to thr route? david There was a recent discussion on the routing list about this - iirc we agreed to use a (low) assumed speed of 4-5Km/h for ferries (as opposed to the current practice of not routing them at all..) Certainly maxspeed isn't the one to use. Marl -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFIvHK+JfMmcSPNh94RAmt4AJ93CM0pB2pCe9qSoAtL60uPlvg3yACXXVwI Y7hlp6D2ifex/hXOO5cGgw== =XrVm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed
- Original Message - From: Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed David Groom wrote: When tagging ferry routes is anyone tagging ferry speed, and if so do you simply add maxspeed = ?? to thr route? maxspeed is for speed limits. Unless the coastguard has imposed one, please don't use that tag :-) If it's a particular single route, why not time or duration? I have no particular views either way, just that as maxspeed was already in use I thought that routing applications would understand it, whereas another tag such as time or duration would mean routing applications having to adapt to this. Having said that its much easier to know the time a ferry crossing takes rather than work out the speed of the crossing david Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Mon, Sep 01, 2008 at 08:50:46PM +0100, Christopher Woods wrote: So for lists such as the BBC Backstage Majordomo list (which used to behave in the way this list currently does, but now puts in the appropriate list address when you hit Reply), are you saying that they've in fact bodged the list's setup and it's not strictly correct? It's more than not strictly correct: It's plain broken. It breaks my reply-to-author function. Everytime I want to use it, I have to manually fix the recipients. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed
David Groom wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 11:59 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed - Original Message - From: Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed David Groom wrote: When tagging ferry routes is anyone tagging ferry speed, and if so do you simply add maxspeed = ?? to thr route? maxspeed is for speed limits. Unless the coastguard has imposed one, please don't use that tag :-) If it's a particular single route, why not time or duration? I have no particular views either way, just that as maxspeed was already in use I thought that routing applications would understand it, whereas another tag such as time or duration would mean routing applications having to adapt to this. Having said that its much easier to know the time a ferry crossing takes rather than work out the speed of the crossing Yes, best not to try to be too smart. If the ferry has a scheduled departure and arrival time the crossing_duration= should be good enough. The speed can be worked out by computation in the routing app. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
2008/9/2 Sascha Silbe [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There's no way OSM could change that default, it's up to your MUA vendor. The buttons you're currently using are reply (with an implied to author) and reply to all, not reply (default) and reply (alternative). The only thing OSM can do is to trick your MUA into believing the reply to author function should reply to the list instead. And note the last word I used: _instead_. It doesn't work as expected anymore, rendering the expected function unavailable. But this is where the problem is. You did not send me this email, the list did. Reply does not imply send to author it implies send to who sent me the message. If I forward an email to someone, a reply comes to me, not the original author. If the list forwards an email to someone, the expectation is therefore created that a reply would go back to the list. The fact that lists work differently in the background is not obvious. An OSM thread is supposed to be creating a group conversation. Setting it up so the default way of replying breaks threads away from the list into private conversations might work well for a advertising list, but is strange for a list of this type. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Animations of historic OSM coverage
Frederik Ramm wrote: Sent: 30 August 2008 12:32 AM To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] Animations of historic OSM coverage Hi, I have made a number of nice OSM history animations available on http://www.geofabrik.de/gallery/history/ - it's a bit German-centric at the moment but at least we also have UK/Ireland as a whole, plus London, Birmingham, Oslo, and a few others. I'm also happy to extend the list (time permitting) if you supply a bounding box. I can, on demand, create animated .gifs or large images should you want to use them in a presentation or so. The database I'm using has one snapshot per month and covers the world minus the USA. Thanks Frederik, nice to have one for Birmingham :-) Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 01:06:27AM +0200, Sascha Silbe wrote: It's more than not strictly correct: It's plain broken. It breaks my reply-to-author function. Everytime I want to use it, I have to manually fix the recipients. Well, and it breaks my expectation of what reply means in the context of a public discussion. Should you have different expectations, see the documentation of your mail client (hint : ignore_list_reply_to) cu bart ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 12:58:48AM +0200, bvh wrote: Well, and it breaks my expectation of what reply means in the context of a public discussion. Should you have different expectations, see the documentation of your mail client (hint : ignore_list_reply_to) This thread is going nowhere, so let's just end it. You don't get my point and I don't agree with your solution. CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed
- Original Message - From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'David Groom' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 12:10 AM Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed David Groom wrote: Sent: 01 September 2008 11:59 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed - Original Message - From: Gervase Markham [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] ferry route speed David Groom wrote: When tagging ferry routes is anyone tagging ferry speed, and if so do you simply add maxspeed = ?? to thr route? maxspeed is for speed limits. Unless the coastguard has imposed one, please don't use that tag :-) If it's a particular single route, why not time or duration? I have no particular views either way, just that as maxspeed was already in use I thought that routing applications would understand it, whereas another tag such as time or duration would mean routing applications having to adapt to this. Having said that its much easier to know the time a ferry crossing takes rather than work out the speed of the crossing Yes, best not to try to be too smart. If the ferry has a scheduled departure and arrival time the crossing_duration= should be good enough. The speed can be worked out by computation in the routing app. Ok . I've added a comment to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:Tag:route%3Dferry if anyone cares to comment more on this. David Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Diaries via a GeoRSS Box Filter
Or perhaps try GeoPress http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/geopress/ -Mikel - Original Message From: Shaun McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: OSM talk talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:55:00 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Diaries via a GeoRSS Box Filter Seems you want http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-geo/ Shaun Gregory wrote: That's really cool. I should really sort out georeferencing my blog posts (might need to hack WordPress a bit or find a plugin, and then I want to add an OSM map or link to my template). Then you could put the url as http://blogs.openstreetmap.org which is user diaries plus a fairly long list of OSM people who blog on their own website. -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com 2008/8/26 Martin Vidner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, OpenStreetMap has this nice [1]feed of its users' [2]diaries, so that you can get all excited about the progress that fellow mappers have done near you. Now if you actually try to follow that feed, you may notice, as did I, that the problem is in the word _near_, which is the missing piece. It does not help to learn about new developments on [3]another continent. Fortunately (and unsurprisingly) the feed is [4]GeoRSS so we can filter its contents based on the coordinates supplied with most diary entries. I did not find such service on the Web so I wrote it myself: a [5]GeoRSS Box Filter. You say geofilter.php?url=...minlat=...maxlat=...minlong=...maxlong=... and it filters the given feed according to the given bounding box. If you omit the url, it defaults to the above mentioned OSM diary feed, and the bounding box defaults to Czechoslovakia. More examples? How about the [6]United Kingdom? or [7]Georgia? (The [8]Export tab is handy to get the numbers, BTW) To watch for uploaded GPS traces, use [9]geofilter.php?url=http://openstreetmap.org/traces/rss. I wonder what other interesting feeds you can find to experiment with (but I did not try anything else than RSS 2.0). Oh, and I worked on this all on the [10]company time because it's [11]Hack Week3 now, yay! Reposted from: http://mvidner.blogspot.com/2008/08/openstreetmap-diaries-via-georss-box.html Links: 1. http://www.openstreetmap.org/diary/rss 2. http://www.openstreetmap.org/diary 3. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tatata/diary/2985 4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoRSS 5. http://vidner.net/martin/software/geo/geofilter.php 6. http://vidner.net/martin/software/geo/geofilter.php?minlat=50maxlat=60minlong=-9maxlong=2 7. http://vidner.net/martin/software/geo/geofilter.php?minlat=40.7maxlat=43.7minlong=39.7maxlong=46.7 8. http://www.openstreetmap.org/export/ 9. http://vidner.net/martin/software/geo/geofilter.php?url=http://openstreetmap.org/traces/rss 10. http://www.suse.cz/en/ 11. http://zonker.opensuse.org/2008/08/25/hack-week-iii-off-and-running/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
Hoera!! Weten we nu hoeveel stemmen het kost om een nederlander erin te krijgen? Dan kunnen we volgend jaar een 2e naast Henk zetten :) Geert. - Original Message From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!! Date: 01/09/08 16:01 Laten we met z'n allen een driewerf HOERA!! uitroepen op Henk Hoffs nieuwe status als OSMF board member! HOERA! HOERA! HOERA! Een mooi ding, dat de stem van NL vertegenwoordigd is in het bestuur van de Foundation. Misschien doet dit wel een extra duit in het zakje voor SOTM-NL in 2009 :D Martijn -- martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
Hoera!!! Geert Schuring schreef: Hoera!! Weten we nu hoeveel stemmen het kost om een nederlander erin te krijgen? Dan kunnen we volgend jaar een 2e naast Henk zetten :) Geert. - Original Message From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!! Date: 01/09/08 16:01 Laten we met z'n allen een driewerf HOERA!! uitroepen op Henk Hoffs nieuwe status als OSMF board member! HOERA! HOERA! HOERA! Een mooi ding, dat de stem van NL vertegenwoordigd is in het bestuur van de Foundation. Misschien doet dit wel een extra duit in het zakje voor SOTM-NL in 2009 :D Martijn -- martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
Heren/Dames, Wie kan mij informatie over de nieuwe licentie voor OSM verschaffen? O.a. de Fietsersbond hebben hierom gevraagd. Geert. Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Geert Schuring wrote: Wie kan mij informatie over de nieuwe licentie voor OSM verschaffen? O.a. de Fietsersbond hebben hierom gevraagd. Ik vermoed dat die nieuwe licentie *nooit* geaccepteerd gaat worden :D Primair omdat iedere edit van iedereen die nee zegt uit de dataset gehaald moet worden. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
Henk had 19 stemmen. Nick Black 25 Newly elected Etienne Cherdlu 30 Re-elected Michael Collinson25 Re-elected Henk Hoff19 Newly elected Mikel Maron 25 Re-elected Andy Robinson 29 Re-elected Simone Cortesi 11 Grant Slater 18 Richard Weait 10 Totaal zijn er dus 192 stemmen uitgebracht. Als iedere stemgerechtigde die van zijn stemrecht gebruik heeft gemaakt, al zijn beschikbare zes stemmen heeft gebruikt, dan heeft het geweldige aantal van tweeëndertig (sic!!) mensen het nieuwe bestuur gekozen! Leve de democratie! Op 1 sep 2008, om 15:12 heeft Geert Schuring het volgende geschreven: Hoera!! Weten we nu hoeveel stemmen het kost om een nederlander erin te krijgen? Dan kunnen we volgend jaar een 2e naast Henk zetten :) Geert. - Original Message From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!! Date: 01/09/08 16:01 Laten we met z'n allen een driewerf HOERA!! uitroepen op Henk Hoffs nieuwe status als OSMF board member! HOERA! HOERA! HOERA! Een mooi ding, dat de stem van NL vertegenwoordigd is in het bestuur van de Foundation. Misschien doet dit wel een extra duit in het zakje voor SOTM-NL in 2009 :D Martijn -- martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http:// www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.10 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Totaal zijn er dus 192 stemmen uitgebracht. Als iedere stemgerechtigde die van zijn stemrecht gebruik heeft gemaakt, al zijn beschikbare zes stemmen heeft gebruikt, dan heeft het geweldige aantal van tweeëndertig (sic!!) mensen het nieuwe bestuur gekozen! Leve de democratie! Oftewel: OSM Foundation heeft geen achterban :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki78O8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3IuQCePXixZJr20zus8kN+X+92gD9T tHwAnRlO3HA/QVFlbPbUdp1zysH6g/cm =dPht -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
On Monday 01 September 2008, Stefan de Konink wrote: Totaal zijn er dus 192 stemmen uitgebracht. Als iedere stemgerechtigde die van zijn stemrecht gebruik heeft gemaakt, al zijn beschikbare zes stemmen heeft gebruikt, dan heeft het geweldige aantal van tweeëndertig (sic!!) mensen het nieuwe bestuur gekozen! Leve de democratie! Oftewel: OSM Foundation heeft geen achterban :) Nou Stefan, zo kan ie wel weer voor vandaag he... En natuurlijk: Henk, gefeliciteerd! -- Freek ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
Martijn, Martijn van Exel wrote: Laten we met z'n allen een driewerf HOERA!! uitroepen op Henk Hoffs nieuwe status als OSMF board member! Ik heb er melding van gemaakt op de Software Freedom Day-webstek. -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu begin:vcard fn:Lange n:de;Bas email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
Martijn van Oosterhout: Ik vermoed dat die nieuwe licentie *nooit* geaccepteerd gaat worden :D Primair omdat iedere edit van iedereen die nee zegt uit de dataset gehaald moet worden. [...] De huidige licentie kan gewoon niet dus als een heleboel data weg moet dan moet dat maar. Kan iemand mij, als nieuweling, verwijzen naar een plaats met meer informatie over dit onderwerp? Hartelijk dank, Martijn Coenen ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
vraag me af hoeveel (betalende) leden er zijn Rob 2008/9/1 Bas de Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martijn, Martijn van Exel wrote: Laten we met z'n allen een driewerf HOERA!! uitroepen op Henk Hoffs nieuwe status als OSMF board member! Ik heb er melding van gemaakt op de Software Freedom Day-webstek. -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
On Monday 01 September 2008, Freek wrote: On Monday 01 September 2008, Martijn Coenen wrote: Kan iemand mij, als nieuweling, verwijzen naar een plaats met meer informatie over dit onderwerp? Dit is wat ik erover kan vinden: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-January/000526.htm l http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-March/000875.html Tijdens de laatste meeting had Henk geloof ik meer informatie, dus het loopt nog wel. Er is zo te zien ook nog een bericht van juli: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-July/001039.html -- Freek ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn van Oosterhout schreef: 2008/9/1 Stefan de Konink [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wie kan mij informatie over de nieuwe licentie voor OSM verschaffen? O.a. de Fietsersbond hebben hierom gevraagd. Ik vermoed dat die nieuwe licentie *nooit* geaccepteerd gaat worden :D Primair omdat iedere edit van iedereen die nee zegt uit de dataset gehaald moet worden. En de alternatief is dat elke website die nu de data gebruikt moet sluiten omdat ze niet aan de voorwaarden voldoen? Wal/Schip Rock/Hard place De huidige licentie kan gewoon niet dus als een heleboel data weg moet dan moet dat maar. Nu ik er nogmaals overnadenk en die thread lees op legal, begrijp ik het helemaal! (Ik ben echt in een donkere bui vandaag ;) Zou het met die FIL/ODbL mogelijk worden om een stukje kaart te produceren waarbij je wat je hebt geproduceerd niet meer terug hoeft te geven. Zou een bedrijfje als dat-van-Steve dan kaartjes kunnen gaan renderen en verkopen zonder daarbij bijvoorbeeld stylesheets of wijzigingen terug te geven :P http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-July/001042.html Gelukkig hebben we Henk, en ik heb zeker vertrouwen in zijn oogje in het zeil houden :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki8D9cACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1jkQCfbjAwy3XvCtbhGQ2TKzDa1ZYf 6vMAoIpxwKg9slvAY0lIB3KM0T5Z1tbk =2QI+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn van Oosterhout schreef: Het grote verschil is dat de website niet een derivative work van het liedje is. Maar wil jij beweren dat de tiles gegenereerd door de tile server geen afgeleide werk zijn van de OSM data? Dus inderdaad, de site is ok, maar zonder tiles kom je niet ver. De posters die gemaakt zijn van OSM data, zijn die niet ook algeleide werken? De tile is ShareAlike/Attribution, immers exclusief template verantwoordelijk voor de representatie. De software die de tiles heen en weer verhuist is dat niet, immers dat verandert de data niet niet. Ik zou zelfs kunnen stellen dat het 'gebruik' van de data zonder wijzigingen alleen 'gebruik' is geen 'aanvulling'. Dit is inderdaad een moeilijk en onduidelijk punt, die direct is op te lossen door linkjes te maken en niet lokaal te cachen. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki8Ew0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn3lqgCeOqzeW293BhohMcs6rbHDwhbm 0EQAn132gevdhcf1OA7h7wZ2g1IjpUQr =7eM7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
Dames en heren, Ben nu net thuis (he he), had m'n vlucht gisteravond gemist, dus kon vanmorgen pas naar huis (lees: via m'n werk). Desalniettemin: bedankt voor al jullie felicitaties en niet te vergeten jullie stemmen! Ik heb al een vergadering van de board mogen meemaken. Spannende dingen die er gebeuren. (kom er zo in een andere mail ook nog even op terug; die over de licentie). Het lijke me goed om tijdens de OSM dag in Baarn ook even een momentje te pakken om met jullie af te stemmen wat jullie van de Foundation verwachten en wat ik daar mee kan. Nogmaals bedankt voor jullie support! Ik hoop er een goeie invulling aan te kunnen geven. Groet, Henk Hoff Rob schreef: vraag me af hoeveel (betalende) leden er zijn Rob 2008/9/1 Bas de Lange [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martijn, Martijn van Exel wrote: Laten we met z'n allen een driewerf HOERA!! uitroepen op Henk Hoffs nieuwe status als OSMF board member! Ik heb er melding van gemaakt op de Software Freedom Day-webstek. -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
Stefan de Konink schreef: Gelukkig hebben we Henk, en ik heb zeker vertrouwen in zijn oogje in het zeil houden :) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl De licentie is hot! Laat ik daarmee beginnen. Inhoudelijk over de licentie kunnen jullie op de wiki lezen. In hoofdlijn: Het gaat OSM over de data. Wij hebben vrije geo-data. Wanneer je daar leuke plaatjes mee maakt: succes! Het plaatje sec hoeft niet onder dezelfde licentie vrijgegeven te worden. Echter, wanneer je de data verrijkt (enkele wegen toevoegd, aanpast, etc), dan moet die wel vrij beschikbaar zijn (het attribution deel zoals we dat al in de huidige licentie kennen). Het doel is om met ingang van het nieuwe jaar de nieuwe licentie van kracht te laten zijn. Daarover zal de komende tijd uitgebreid worden gecommuniceerd. Je zult gevraagd worden of jouw bijdragen overgezet mogen worden naar de nieuwe licentie. Indien je niet akkoord gaat, zal jouw bijdrage uit de database gehaald worden. Dit alles even kort door de bocht. Deze licentie-migratie wordt een 'hell-of-a-job'. Binnen de Foundation is een breed gedragen consensus dat die migratie er wel moet komen omdat de huidige licentie teveel problemen gaat opleveren in de (nabije) toekomst. Alvast een tip: controleer of je inlognaam om bij de kaart te kunnen komen (dat e-mailadres dus) nog steeds een geldig mailadres is. Je krijgt hierop namelijk binnenkort wat mail. Om het helemaal mooi te maken: ik ben opgezadeld om enkele use-cases te maken hoe om te gaan met de nej-zeggers. Ik denk dat het ook goed is om een licentie-party te gaan organiseren waarin we hierover face-to-face dieper op in kunnen gaan: wat houdt de licentie in en waarom is het nodig. Dat soort zaken. Is hier behoefte aan? Zo ja, dan ga ik die organiseren. bedenk ik me nu ineens: het lijkt me een interessant onderwerp om op de OSM-dag in Baarn ook even een sessie over te hebben; over de OSM licentie. Ik zou zeggen: meer hierover op de OSM-dag! Groet, Henk Hoff ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Freek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 01 September 2008, Stefan de Konink wrote: Totaal zijn er dus 192 stemmen uitgebracht. Als iedere stemgerechtigde die van zijn stemrecht gebruik heeft gemaakt, al zijn beschikbare zes stemmen heeft gebruikt, dan heeft het geweldige aantal van tweeëndertig (sic!!) mensen het nieuwe bestuur gekozen! Leve de democratie! Oftewel: OSM Foundation heeft geen achterban :) Nou Stefan, zo kan ie wel weer voor vandaag he... Nou ja, Stefan maakt het punt dat ik ook al met de getalletjes wilde maken. Het is natuurlijk bespottelijk weinig, een community van 50.000 mensen waarvan niet eens 1 promille geeft om de verkiezing van het bestuur van de overkoepelende stichting. Ik vind dat het moet worden gezien als een taak voor het nieuwe bestuur: zorg dat mensen beter weten wat je doet, betekent. Waarom is het belangrijk dat de OSMF er is? Ik hoop veel (meer!) van ze te horen komend jaar. -- martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
Goed idee voor de OSM-dag, zet het ff op de agenda. CC Bas ook even, hoewel hij vast meeleest. Wat ik ineens bedenk: iemand die kwaad wil kan een heleboel data 'touchen' die dan vervolgens zijn UID heeft in de database, en vervolgens weigeren mee te gaan met de nieuwe licentie. Dit is niet tegen te gaan, maar wordt hier in de OSMF over nagedacht? Zo nee, dan heb je hier je eerste use case :D Martijn 2008/9/1 Henk Hoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Stefan de Konink schreef: Gelukkig hebben we Henk, en ik heb zeker vertrouwen in zijn oogje in het zeil houden :) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl De licentie is hot! Laat ik daarmee beginnen. Inhoudelijk over de licentie kunnen jullie op de wiki lezen. In hoofdlijn: Het gaat OSM over de data. Wij hebben vrije geo-data. Wanneer je daar leuke plaatjes mee maakt: succes! Het plaatje sec hoeft niet onder dezelfde licentie vrijgegeven te worden. Echter, wanneer je de data verrijkt (enkele wegen toevoegd, aanpast, etc), dan moet die wel vrij beschikbaar zijn (het attribution deel zoals we dat al in de huidige licentie kennen). Het doel is om met ingang van het nieuwe jaar de nieuwe licentie van kracht te laten zijn. Daarover zal de komende tijd uitgebreid worden gecommuniceerd. Je zult gevraagd worden of jouw bijdragen overgezet mogen worden naar de nieuwe licentie. Indien je niet akkoord gaat, zal jouw bijdrage uit de database gehaald worden. Dit alles even kort door de bocht. Deze licentie-migratie wordt een 'hell-of-a-job'. Binnen de Foundation is een breed gedragen consensus dat die migratie er wel moet komen omdat de huidige licentie teveel problemen gaat opleveren in de (nabije) toekomst. Alvast een tip: controleer of je inlognaam om bij de kaart te kunnen komen (dat e-mailadres dus) nog steeds een geldig mailadres is. Je krijgt hierop namelijk binnenkort wat mail. Om het helemaal mooi te maken: ik ben opgezadeld om enkele use-cases te maken hoe om te gaan met de nej-zeggers. Ik denk dat het ook goed is om een licentie-party te gaan organiseren waarin we hierover face-to-face dieper op in kunnen gaan: wat houdt de licentie in en waarom is het nodig. Dat soort zaken. Is hier behoefte aan? Zo ja, dan ga ik die organiseren. bedenk ik me nu ineens: het lijkt me een interessant onderwerp om op de OSM-dag in Baarn ook even een sessie over te hebben; over de OSM licentie. Ik zou zeggen: meer hierover op de OSM-dag! Groet, Henk Hoff ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl -- martijn van exel -+- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Nieuwe OSM licentie
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn van Exel schreef: Goed idee voor de OSM-dag, zet het ff op de agenda. CC Bas ook even, hoewel hij vast meeleest. Wat ik ineens bedenk: iemand die kwaad wil kan een heleboel data 'touchen' die dan vervolgens zijn UID heeft in de database, en vervolgens weigeren mee te gaan met de nieuwe licentie. Dit is niet tegen te gaan, maar wordt hier in de OSMF over nagedacht? Zo nee, dan heb je hier je eerste use case :D Bedankt voor het idee ;) Zou me toch wat zijn als we alle snelwegen met borden gaan taggen en dat op de CC-SA-A-2.0 laten vallen ;) Twee vliegen in 1 klap, datamodel en licentie. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki8KpcACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1jxACfV3SCr/8vYv3S+AUTGgq7hlJ1 g3sAnRFpk8N5EcOqFxo6wWn1jnfWmCtA =0fg4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Henk - Gefeliciteerd!!
On Monday 01 September 2008, Martijn van Exel wrote: On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 3:46 PM, Freek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 01 September 2008, Stefan de Konink wrote: Totaal zijn er dus 192 stemmen uitgebracht. Als iedere stemgerechtigde die van zijn stemrecht gebruik heeft gemaakt, al zijn beschikbare zes stemmen heeft gebruikt, dan heeft het geweldige aantal van tweeëndertig (sic!!) mensen het nieuwe bestuur gekozen! Leve de democratie! Oftewel: OSM Foundation heeft geen achterban :) Nou Stefan, zo kan ie wel weer voor vandaag he... Nou ja, Stefan maakt het punt dat ik ook al met de getalletjes wilde maken. Het is natuurlijk bespottelijk weinig, een community van 50.000 mensen waarvan niet eens 1 promille geeft om de verkiezing van het bestuur van de overkoepelende stichting. Ok, dat is misschien waar. Ik zou eens kijken hoe dat bij de KDE e.v. (ev.kde.org) gaat, voor zover ik weet handelen die ook allerlei dingen af die niet direct met het product zelf te maken hebben, maar wel moeten gebeuren. Alleen moeten leden daar benoemd worden (zie site) i.p.v. dat ze lidmaatschapsgeld betalen. Ik vind dat het moet worden gezien als een taak voor het nieuwe bestuur: zorg dat mensen beter weten wat je doet, betekent. Waarom is het belangrijk dat de OSMF er is? Ik hoop veel (meer!) van ze te horen komend jaar. Ligt eraan wat het doel van het clubje is. Als ze alleen op de achtergrond ondersteunend aanwezig willen zijn, is het eigenlijk niet eens zo erg dat je niet zoveel van ze hoord. Het is natuurlijk wel belangrijk dat ze steun van de community hebben, en ja, daarvoor is het wel prettig als de community weet wat ze doen :-) Dus ook hier ben ik het wel mee eens. -- Freek ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [Talk-de] Strassenbegleitende Wege aller Art
Am Montag, 1. September 2008 01:51 schrieb Heiko Jacobs: Habe die Tage auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=De:Bicycle/quellen paar Gedankenfetzen hinterlassen: hab es mal ein wenig mit Beispielen angereichert. Gruß Sven ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Artikel über OSM in der c't 19/2008
Hi Marian schrieb: Aber besser in der c't als in der Computer Bild Die beiden Presseerzeugnisse schenken sich meiner Meinung nach nichts, was man unter anderem auch am c't-Magazin erkennen kann. Technik-News aufbereitet für Dummies! ct mit Copmuter-Bild zu vergleichen, das hingt doch etwas. Mag sein das Die beides nicht gefällt, aber da liegen dennoch Welten dazwischen. Also ich persönlich fande den Artikel in der c't sehr gut gelungen. Er informiert gut über das Projekt. Bin auch durch den Artikel auf das Projekt gestoßen und so erst darauf aufmerksam geworden. Also für Laien durchaus geeignet. Und so war der Artikel ja auch gedacht, wenn ich das richtig lese. Für einen interessierte Laien, der wohl so ungefähr weiß was ein GPS ist aber sich mir OSM nicht näher befasst hat. Das ist ja bei anderen Themen auch nicht anders, ein echter Profi findet immer etwas zu maulen. Eine Zeitschrift muss halt etwas verflachen um auch die Mehrheit seiner Leser anzusprechen um diese so einen Schritt näher an das Thema zu bringen. Letztendlich reicht da dazu, den einen oder anderen an OSM heranzuführen, was er dann selbst daraus macht ist seine Sache. Das wird auch in Zukunft so bleiben, es ist gut so und solange eine Fehler im Text stehen, schadet es keinem. Gruß Thorsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen mit Punktsymbol ?
Bernd Wurst schrieb: Wobei ich bei Spielplätzen eigentlich schon zum Eintragen auf der Karte tendieren würde. Allerdings mit weniger farbintensiven Symbolen. da bin ich nicht für. die Karte (von mapnik gerendert) ist wirklich nur eine Straßenkarte. sozusagen eine Entsprechung zu googlemaps. wenn ich wissen will, wo die nächsten spielplätze sind gehe ich auf openchildrenmap.org (oder was auch immer). btw: wer hat Lust so etwas (mit mir) auf die Beine zu stellen? alles gute Josias ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] wlan von maps.fon.com - hier die Openlayers-Einblend-Methode
Hallo, was ist die Openlayers-Einblend-Methode und ist sie irgendwo in deutsch beschrieben? Rolf -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Stefan Neufeind Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. August 2008 23:02 An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] wlan von maps.fon.com Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 28. August 2008 17:50 schrieb Per Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ... allerdings auch die Openlayers-Einblend-Methode praeferieren. ACK ... ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] wlan von maps.fon.com
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hallo, langsam finde ich immer mehr Gefallen an diesen WLAN-Noden. Aber ohne Renderung sind sie sehr schlecht zu erkennen. Auf der fon.com-Webseite haben diese Punkte auch einen WLAN-Namen, der beim Verbindungsaufbau angezeigt wird, und eine Anschrift mit Straße und Hausnummer. Dort werden sie auf einer Google-Karte gezeigt und liegen ebenfalls unkorrekt irgendwo in der Gegend. Etwas bedenklich ist es vielleicht aus einer völlig anderen Sicht. Solange nicht bei jedem einzelnen Punkt dabei steht, dass er absichtlich unverschlüsselt ist und frei von jedem genutzt werden darf, habe ich so meine Bedenken. Wenn jemand seine Wohnungstür nicht abschließt und die Tür offen lässt, darf ich die Wohnung trotzdem nicht betreten. Auch wenn ich beim Betreten ja nichts kaputt mache. Würden wir alle zufällig offen stehenden Wohnungstüren in die Karte eintragen? Wohl eher nicht, obwohl die Eintragung natürlich niemanden verpflichtet, in diese Wohnungen einzudringen. Böse Menschen können mit so einem freien WLAN auch Böses tun. Böse Menschen können natürlich auch woanders etwas anderes Böses tun ... Das Argument, dass sich bei den WLAN-APs ab und zu mal was ändert, ist wirklich mächtig gewaltig. Ich habe im meiner Umgebung zahlreiche kleinere Niederlassungen der üblichen Discounter. Ab und zu zieht mal einer aus und ein anderer ein. Ich kann mir als Gelegenheitskunde nie sicher sein, dass der in dem Gebäude drin ist, der noch das letzte Mal drin war. Auf die Masse bezogen auch nicht unerheblich. Sein persönliches Missfallen gegen die WLANs mit diesem Argument zu vertuschen, ist nicht besonders effektiv. Rolf -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Stefan Neufeind Gesendet: Sonntag, 31. August 2008 23:02 An: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch Betreff: Re: [Talk-de] wlan von maps.fon.com Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am 28. August 2008 17:50 schrieb Per Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Christoph Eckert schrieb: [...] Andererseits stören die Hotspots ja in unserer Datenbank erstmal nicht. Warum also nicht 'drinnelassen und abwarten, ob die Fon-Jungs die ... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP Desktop 9.5.3 (Build 5003) Charset: iso-8859-1 wj8DBQFIu66nX/cdferISG0RAjzQAKDtXPDt6SksSUzUaa7LL34miTLnrACfZ7Ua /5NnrWFed+uDWmVYeyxoFpM= =yUMh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mappen von Tracktype grade höher 3
Johann H. Addicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hatto von Hatzfeld schrieb: http://www.addicks.net/albums/Irgendwo/DSCF1228.sized.jpg (Blick durch den 2m-Zaun, alles verrammelt, nichts beschriftet, Weg die einzige Zufahrt) Interessant. Ich habe da so einen Verdacht; kannst Du mir eine genauere Ortsangabe (z.B. Geokoordinaten oder OSM-Permanent-Link) zukommen lassen? Nehme ich mal dieses unfreie Sat-Bild: http://maps.google.de/maps?ll=51.367614,7.020135spn=0.001906,0.004168t=hz=18 Neue Ideen, anyone? Sebastian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=road?
Am Samstag 30 August 2008 schrieb Heiko Jacobs: Guenther Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: fixme sagt eindeutig, dass hier noch was zu tun ist. ... aber nicht, was zu tun ist. Dafuer ist highway=fixme ungeeignet. highway=road fixme=Klasisfizierung fehlt naja, das naheliegende ist doch das fehlende. oder nicht? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
Moin ! wenn man Straßen hat, dann muss man diese mit einem NAME versehen damit eine Beschriftung erfolgt. Relationen alleine reichen nicht aus - so habe ich es gelernt. Wie ist das aber mit kleinen Teilstücken - Brücken Die werden dann auch alle mit beschriftet - unschön Wie geht man hier am besten vor ? Gruß Jan :-) -- Freundliche Grüße Jan Tappenbeck --- OpenStreetMap (OSM) - das FREIE Kartenprojekt http://www.openstreetmap.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstück en steuern
Jan Tappenbeck wrote: wenn man Straßen hat, dann muss man diese mit einem NAME versehen damit eine Beschriftung erfolgt. Relationen alleine reichen nicht aus - so habe ich es gelernt. Wie ist das aber mit kleinen Teilstücken - Brücken Die werden dann auch alle mit beschriftet - unschön Wie geht man hier am besten vor ? Einen Renderer schreiben bzw. einen bestehenden modifizieren, dass Relationen berücksichtigt werden. Das war jetzt einfach, wenn auch vermutlich nicht das, was du lesen wolltest. CU And'wir mappen nicht für Renderer'reas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
osmarender:renderName=no funktioniert für Osmarender. Für Mapnik bin ich mir nicht sicher, aber der ist häufig ohnehin klüger als Osmarender. Und - natürlich mappe ich für die Renderer, wofür denn sonst? Etwa für die Datenbank? Nix für ungut Friedhelm ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen mit Punktsymbol ?
Hallo. Am Montag, 1. September 2008 schrieb Josias: Bernd Wurst schrieb: Wobei ich bei Spielplätzen eigentlich schon zum Eintragen auf der Karte tendieren würde. Allerdings mit weniger farbintensiven Symbolen. da bin ich nicht für. Das ist dein Recht. ;-) die Karte (von mapnik gerendert) ist wirklich nur eine Straßenkarte. sozusagen eine Entsprechung zu googlemaps. Wir haben momentan... - Parkplätze (das finde ich *sehr* sinnvoll und stört mich bei Google immer) - Restaurants und Pubs - Recycling-Container - Briefkästen und Postfilialen - Kirchen - Bushaltestellen in der Mapnik-Karte. Vermutlich noch mehr, aber die fallen mir grade so spontan auf. Man kann sich bei allem fragen, ob das in einer Straßenkarte Sinn macht. Wenn man in einer Innenstadt alle Pubs einträgt, dann rendert Mapnik auch nicht alle weil der Platz für alle Symbole nicht reicht. Ergo könnte man die Pubs ganz weglassen um nicht unbewusst einzelne zu diskreditieren. Ich bin pauschal dafür, alles zu rendern was in der Realität genügend Platz beansprucht, so dass es auf der Karte keinen Symbolsalat produziert. Spielplätze sind meist recht groß, zumindest größer als so mancher Pub. :) wenn ich wissen will, wo die nächsten spielplätze sind gehe ich auf openchildrenmap.org (oder was auch immer). Ja, eine Karte mit weniger Infos und ganz viel Zusatz-Layern ist toll. Bin ich voll dafür, dass das jemand macht. ;-) Muss aber auch etwas schöner werden als das bisher möglich ist. Bei bisherigen OpenLayers-Karten sind die Symbole immer gleich groß, das sieht für diesen Zweck richtig doof aus wenn man etwas weg-gezoomt hat. Gruß, Bernd -- Aus dem WWW dringt niemand ein. Das internationale Datennetz heißt Internet. WWW ist der Teil, in dem es Fickbildchen gibt. - Andreas Riedel in de.comp.os.unix.linux.misc signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
Hallo. Am Montag, 1. September 2008 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Wie ist das aber mit kleinen Teilstücken - Brücken Die werden dann auch alle mit beschriftet - unschön Ist das jetzt eine so scheisse wie hier alles ist, wird das bestimmt so sein-Bemerkung oder hast du wirklich eine Brücke, die mit nem Namen beschriftet ist? Wie geht man hier am besten vor ? Nix besonderes. Die Renderer erkennen, was noch hin passt und was nicht und rendern keinen Namen, wenn kein Platz dafür da ist. Und falls du über osmarender:renderName=no stolperst: Tu das nicht. Das hat in der normalen Datenbank nichts zu suchen und wird von vielen kommentarlos entfernt. Gruß, Bernd -- Die Zukunft ist auch nicht mehr das, was sie mal war signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Gemeindegrenze importieren
Ob lila Striche oder grüne Punkte ist dem LVermA ganz sicher egal. Auch dürfte dem LVermA nicht daran gelegen sein, dass wir nun die Gemeindegrenzen absichtlich ungenau digitalisieren. Das würde ja schliesslich deren ganze Arbeit in den Dreck ziehen. Was man mit dieser Aussage wohl sicherstellen möchte ist, dass wir hier nicht die ganze TK50 digitalisieren dürfen, sondern eben nur die Grenzen abmalen. Alex Tobias Hägele schrieb am 31.08.2008 13:52: Am Sonntag, den 31.08.2008, 09:03 +0200 schrieb Markus: Sie nehmen die beiliegenden Kartenausschnitte nur als Anhalt und malen sich ihre eigen Karte. Dann entstehen Ihnen keine Kosten. Dabei dürfen sie allerdings nicht 1 : 1 abmalen, sondern müssen eine eindeutig eigenständige grahische Gestaltung erkennen lassen. Auch ich bin kein Jurist, aber das eindeutig eigenständige graphische Gestaltung hört sich sehr weitläufig an. Eine eigenständige graphische Gestaltung könnte ja schon sein, dass in der Originalkarte die Grenze aus schwarzen feinen Punkten besteht, diese in OSM aber lila breit gestrichelt dargestellt werden. Wenn dann zusätzlich noch ein paar Ungenauigkeiten in der Grenze enthalten sind, die in den nächsten Monaten anhand von anderen Datenquellen korrigiert werden, dürfte das passen. Ich hatte neulich zu meiner Gemeindeverwaltung in ähnlicher Sache Kontakt, die (positive) Antwort enthielt folgende Formulierung: Wir gehen allerdings davon aus, dass Sie nicht die Grafik, sondern nur den informativen Inhalt verwerten. Was ja eigentlich die selbe Kernaussage beinhaltet. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
Moin ! irgendwie verstehe ich das jetzt alles nicht mehr - und das das mit den Rendern noch nicht funktioniert ist mir auch schon bekannt. Aber man kann ja schon zukunftsorientiert erfassen. Also nochmal: Ich habe eine Straße die kurz nach dem Anfang schon eine Brücke enthält. Danach geht der normale Verlauf weiter. Wenn ich in jedes der drei Teilstücke z.b. die REF schreibe, dann wird das in allen drei angezeigt (unschön aus meiner Sicht !). - soll ich das jetzt so machen - oder REF in den Teilstücken weglassen und eine Relation für die Zukunft darüberlegen ? - oder . anderer Vorschlag ?!?!?! Gruß Jan :-) --- OpenStreetMap (OSM) - das FREIE Kartenprojekt http://www.openstreetmap.de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Fahrradwege und das Mappen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Ich habe hier eine Straße, welche Abschnittesweise, alles zu bieten hat, was ein Radwegtechnisch gibt. [...] Tut sie nicht. Es fehlen: * der bidirektionale Radweg auf dem Bürgersteig, * der beampelte Überweg für Radfahrer, an dem das Überqueren der Straße für Fußgänger verboten ist, * die Unterführung für Radfahrer, die auf der einen Seite eine ebenerdige Einfahrt und auf der anderen eine Treppe mit einer seit Jahrzehnten defekten Fahrradhebeanlage aufweist, * sowie ein Stück unbenutzbarer, weil von Baumwurzeln zerlegter Radweg, der mit dem Schild Radfahrer absteigen garniert wurde, kombiniert mit einem Fahrradverbotsschild für die Straße. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] wlan von maps.fon.com
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 10:58:06 +0200 From: Rolf Gehring [EMAIL PROTECTED] langsam finde ich immer mehr Gefallen an diesen WLAN-Noden. Aber ohne Renderung sind sie sehr schlecht zu erkennen. Was ist an der bisherigen Argumentation gegen den Import der Fon-Datenbank sachlich einzuwenden, abgesehen von ich finde Gefallen dran? -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
On Mon, 1 Sep 2008, Jan Tappenbeck wrote: Wenn ich in jedes der drei Teilstücke z.b. die REF schreibe, dann wird das in allen drei angezeigt (unschön aus meiner Sicht !). - soll ich das jetzt so machen - oder REF in den Teilstücken weglassen und eine Relation für die Zukunft darüberlegen ? - oder . anderer Vorschlag ?!?!?! Ich mache das wie Du es beschrieben hast und hoffe darauf, dass irgendwann mal einer die Renderer anpaßt, so dass sie zusammenhänge Wege mit identischer Beschriftung zu einer Beschriftung zusammenfassen. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
Hallo. Am Montag, 1. September 2008 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Ich habe eine Straße die kurz nach dem Anfang schon eine Brücke enthält. Danach geht der normale Verlauf weiter. Ja. Wenn ich in jedes der drei Teilstücke z.b. die REF schreibe, dann wird das in allen drei angezeigt (unschön aus meiner Sicht !). Jetzt ist es plötzlich REF, grade war es noch Name. Ja, Osmarender hat keine Kollissions-Erkennung und nur eine sehr vage Steuerung wann der Platz reicht und wann nicht. Es reicht dafür, dass Namen auf Brücken in der Regel nicht gerendert werden. REFs dagegen schon. Aber REFs rendert Osmarender sowieso neben der Straße und man kann geteilter Meinung sein ob das sinnvoll bzw. schön ist oder nicht. Mapnik wird dein REF vermutlich nicht anzeigen, es sein denn die Brücke ich echt lang, dann stört es aber auch nicht. - soll ich das jetzt so machen Ja. - oder REF in den Teilstücken weglassen und eine Relation für die Zukunft darüberlegen ? Nein. Die Relation anzulegen ist sicherlich nicht verkehrt, sie wir momentan halt mehr oder weniger ignoriert. Der Brücke kein REF zu geben ist irgendwie sinnlos, denn entweder ist sie Teil der Kreis- oder Landesstraße oder sie ist es nicht. Für Straßen die ein REF haben, gibt es im Wiki zudem auch Koordinations-Seiten, denn das sind oft lange Straßen, die man später mal in der ganzen Länge in einer Relation haben möchte. - oder . anderer Vorschlag ?!?!?! Denk nicht zu viel in der Theorie drüber nach. :) Mach es einfach, wenn es wirklich doof aussieht, poste hier den Link zum Ergebnis und frag nochmal was man eventuell an den Daten oder am Renderer ändern müsste, damit es selbiges nicht mehr tut. Gruß Jan :-) Du machst Smiley-Inflation obwohl deine Postings inhaltlich genervt klingen. Überlege bitte, ob du das jetzt lustig findest oder ob Smileys von dir zukünftig einfach ignoriert werden sollen. Gruß, Bernd -- Jedes Problem erlaubt zwei Standpunkte: unseren eigenen und den falschen. - Channing Pollock (am. Dramatiker 1880-1946) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstück en steuern
Friedhelm Schmidt wrote: osmarender:renderName=no Sowas wird von mir entfernt, sofern ich an diesem Teilstück irgendwelche Änderungen vornehmen muss. Und - natürlich mappe ich für die Renderer, wofür denn sonst? Etwa für die Datenbank? Offensichtliche Programmfehler zu umgehen bringt nie was Gutes. Siehe CSS-Fehler des IE... CU Andreas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstück en steuern
Friedhelm Schmidt wrote: osmarender:renderName=no Sowas wird von mir entfernt, sofern ich an diesem Teilstück irgendwelche Änderungen vornehmen muss. wieso ? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=road?
Guenther Meyer schrieb: naja, das naheliegende ist doch das fehlende. oder nicht? Das stimmt schon. Allerdings jammert der Validator, wenn irgendwo fixme steht. Wenn einfach irgendwelche Tags fehlen, tut er das nicht. Einer getaggten Straße sieht man nicht an, dass noch irgend etwas fehlt. Das verleitet dazu. zu glauben, das Gebiet sei fertig. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] highway=road?
Am Montag 01 September 2008 schrieb André Reichelt: Guenther Meyer schrieb: naja, das naheliegende ist doch das fehlende. oder nicht? Das stimmt schon. Allerdings jammert der Validator, wenn irgendwo fixme steht. Wenn einfach irgendwelche Tags fehlen, tut er das nicht. Einer getaggten Straße sieht man nicht an, dass noch irgend etwas fehlt. Das verleitet dazu. zu glauben, das Gebiet sei fertig. naja, wenn der validator meckert, dann ist das auch richtig so. schliesslich muss an der stelle noch was gemacht werden. ich mach sowas eh nur, wenn ich arbeitsmaessig unterwegs bin, und nebenbei den tracker mitlaufen lasse. da weiss ich halt oft nicht mehr, auf welchen strassen ich unterwegs war. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstück en steuern
Christian Mayr schrieb: Friedhelm Schmidt wrote: osmarender:renderName=no Sowas wird von mir entfernt, sofern ich an diesem Teilstück irgendwelche Änderungen vornehmen muss. wieso ? Eben weil wir für die Datenbank mappen. Ich möchte nochmals betonen, dass die Karte eigentlich nicht OSM ist - viel mehr ist das ein kleines Teilprojekt, damit man auch sehen kann, was man da macht. Es gab hier aber schon mehrfach Stimmen, die sogar die Abschaltung der Karte forderten (was ich nicht unterschreiben würde). Wie auch immer - ich entferne solche Tags auch grundsätzlich, wenn ich sie sehe. Unser Ziel darf es nicht sein, Fehler in den Renderern durch Rendererweichen zu beheben. Wenn der Renderer mit den Daten nicht zurecht kommt - Pech. Die einzige Lösung ist, dass man die Fehler direkt an der Quelle behebt und nicht mit Workarounds schafft. Das führt nur zu Problemen, wenn irgendwann nicht mehr nur Mapnik und Osmarender undere Daten verarbeiten. Nochmal: Wir bilden die Realität in der Datenbank ab. Dazu zählen NICHT irgendwelche Steuerbefehle für die Datenverarbeitung. PS: Das mit den Relations ist schon länger im Gespräch, aber bisher verarbeiten die Renderer nur einen Bruchteil. Unser Plan muss es sein, dass irgendwann der Straßenname nur noch in der Relation steht. Außerdem sollten dann die Renderer so schlau werden, dass sie den Straßennamen in regelmäßigen Abständen auf die Straße rendern. Das heisst aber NICHT, dass wir in die Relation reinschreiben, Der Name soll von Osmarender 3x gerendert werden und zwar genau hier, hier und hier. Bei Mapnik 4x hier, da, dort und noch wo anders. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstüc ken steuern
Bernd Wurst schrieb: Am Montag, 1. September 2008 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: - oder REF in den Teilstücken weglassen und eine Relation für die Zukunft darüberlegen ? Nein. Die Relation anzulegen ist sicherlich nicht verkehrt, sie wir momentan halt mehr oder weniger ignoriert. Der Brücke kein REF zu geben ist irgendwie sinnlos, denn entweder ist sie Teil der Kreis- oder Landesstraße oder sie ist es nicht. Ih denke, das Schlauste wäre einfach, wenn Du wirklich die Relation setzt (mit dem Namen) und aktuell auch den Namen in die einzelnen Wegstücke passt. Sobald die Renderer dann wirklich Relations akzeptieren (ich hoffe, bis dahin ziehen nicht mehr all zu viele Tage ins Land), kann man die Namen aus den Straßen wahlweise mit einem Bot (sofern die Relation vorhanden ist) oder nach und nach manuell entfernt. In letzterem Fall könnte man eine Routine in den Renderer einsetzen, der bei Doppelnamen nur die Relation verwendet. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Modellflugplatz taggen
Am Sonntag, 17. August 2008 schrieb Garry: Diebezüglich gab es schon Diskussionen, ich tagge schon seit einger Zeit Modellflugplätze. Könntest Du mir bitte einige Beispiele per Link geben? Ich habe gerade meinen ersten Modellflugplatz erfasst (Start- und Landebahnen, Vorfeld, Heliport, etc.) und brauche da noch ein paar Anregungen zum einzeichnen und taggen. Alles als Rasenfläche ausgelegt, Motor- und Segelflug möglich. Es gibt da auch noch eine Genehmigung für Flugobjekte von über 25kg für den Platz. Grüße René ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Flächen mit Punktsymbol ?
Bernd Wurst schrieb: Ja, eine Karte mit weniger Infos und ganz viel Zusatz-Layern ist toll. Bin ich voll dafür, dass das jemand macht. ;-) Muss aber auch etwas schöner werden als das bisher möglich ist. Bei bisherigen OpenLayers-Karten sind die Symbole immer gleich groß, das sieht für diesen Zweck richtig doof aus wenn man etwas weg-gezoomt hat. Da hast Du recht. Die Frage ist eben, ob OpenLayers in Zukunft neben punktförmigen Objekten auch richtige Karten rendern können wird, also dass ich wirklich Spielplätze manuell ein- und ausschalten kann. Da könnte man z.B. mit SVG nahhelfen, oder man rendert transparente PNGs drüber. Die alternative wäre ein völlig anderes System, was villeicht mal entwickelt wird. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstück en steuern
osmarender:renderName=no Sowas wird von mir entfernt, sofern ich an diesem Teilstück irgendwelche Änderungen vornehmen muss. wieso ? Wie auch immer - ich entferne solche Tags auch grundsätzlich, wenn ich sie sehe. Unser Ziel darf es nicht sein, Fehler in den Renderern durch Rendererweichen zu beheben. Wenn der Renderer mit den Daten nicht zurecht kommt - Pech. Die einzige Lösung ist, dass man die Fehler direkt an der Quelle behebt und nicht mit Workarounds schafft. Das führt nur zu Problemen, wenn irgendwann nicht mehr nur Mapnik und Osmarender undere Daten verarbeiten. Ist ja schön und recht, ich halte es aber für äußerst fragwürdig von einem anderen Mapper das einfach komentarlos zu löschen. Ich würde mich ans Bein gepisst fühlen wenn mir jemand meine Arbeit mutwillig zerstört. Wenn die Renderer das dann mal einfach so können ist es ja ein leichtes die entsprechenden Tags mit einem script aus der ganzen db zu entfernen. Und wenn es nicht gewünscht ist sochle tags zu verwenden warum wird das dann vom renderer ausgewertet? my 2cent ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Beschriftung von kurzen Straßenstück en steuern
Hallo. Am Montag, 1. September 2008 schrieb Christian Mayr: Ist ja schön und recht, ich halte es aber für äußerst fragwürdig von einem anderen Mapper das einfach komentarlos zu löschen. Mache ich auch, wie viele andere ebenfalls. Ich würde mich ans Bein gepisst fühlen wenn mir jemand meine Arbeit mutwillig zerstört. Es ist weder ein Zerstören, noch ist es Arbeit. IMO. Wenn die Renderer das dann mal einfach so können ist es ja ein leichtes die entsprechenden Tags mit einem script aus der ganzen db zu entfernen. Wenn die Renderer was könnten? Und wenn es nicht gewünscht ist sochle tags zu verwenden warum wird das dann vom renderer ausgewertet? Historisch bedingt. Es traut sich wohl keiner, das wieder abzuschalten. Warum, weiß ich auch nicht, es war hier schon sehr oft Konsens, dass es eigentlich nicht sinnvoll ist, sowas in der Datenbank zu haben. Gruß, Bernd -- Gegen Liebe auf den ersten Blick hilft nur der zweite signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
