subject:"\[tw5\] Re\: Two stories in TiddlyWiki"

*Hi Saq,*

Wow, thanks for the demo! Wasn't expecting anything until next week, since
you said you were pretty busy. See my replies in *bold*

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 3:21 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:

> Updated demo: https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/doubleblink.html
>
> I have only spent a few minutes looking at Roam, but from what I saw
> doesn't it have one note open on the left, and can have several open in the
> sidebar on the right?
>

*Yes, good point, the fixed one is left and you can have a river of open
pages in the sidebar. I guess it all comes down to whether the column with
'one fixed tiddler' is considered the primary column or the secondary
column. Or maybe we need to forget that question since there are many ways
to use it.*

> Anyway, good to take inspiration but ultimately the aim should be to
> create a workflow that makes sense and is useful.
>

*Since we both had the same personal preference, let's run with one on left
and river on right.*

>
> These are the eyesore icons I am referring to, which can be used to
> hide/show the second story without closing all the tiddlers in it:
>

*Ah, I am seeing that in the demo you link to in this post, but it wasn't
in the demo you sent before that I turned into DoubleBlink.*

>
> [image: dualstoryicon.JPG]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The behaviour for the display of the second story is as follows:
>
>- the second story is always closed when there is no tiddler open it
>
> *good *

>
>- shift clicking any tiddler link opens the second story and the
>tiddler there.
>
> *good *

>
>- with the second story open, you have a button you can use to toggle
>it. That is, you can leave tiddlers open in the second story but hide the
>story, and open it again later.
>In my personal use I have found this extremely useful, and anyone that
>doesn't want this functionality can not use it or disable it.
>- We need better icons and need to consider where to place this
>button, perhaps in the page controls alone is enough?
>
> *Page control is enough, I think. The icon you used doesn't bother me. It
communicates the idea well. Not sure what you are thinking. *

>
>- (Personally I also use a keyboard shortcut for this) The button in
>the page control area can already be disabled via configuration options and
>the one in the side bar can also be made a config option.
>
> Regarding folding:
>
>- you could put the fold button to the left of the tiddler title.
>Alternatively the tiddler title itself could be clickable and act to
>fold/unfold the tiddler.
>
> *Yes, left of the tiddler title is good and imitates Roam. With narrow
columns, I am wondering about tiddler titles. Is there a way to drop them
down below the toolbar? I tried once a couple of years ago and it looked
really complicated.*

>
>- I do feel like "fold others" would be useful if offered better
>affordance.
>
> *I would say to make it optional or have it in More. Already too many
buttons*

>
>- Note that I bake in the setting that turns all Tiddler titles into
>links. This is handy to shift-click and open the same tiddler in the other
>story. However, this and the divert buttons offer very similar
>functionality and we don't necessarily need both.
>
> *Not a big fan of titles as links. I do a lot of printing from tw's, and
treat titles as text. At least this is fairly easy for users to add if they
want.*

>
>- Shift+ click on the title opens the same tiddler in the other story,
>now you have it in both stories. Divert moves it to the other story.
>So there is room here to choose one of the two and either not have the
>tiddler titles as links, or not have the divert buttons and free up toolbar
>space.
>
> *Great!*


*You didn't mention it, but the sidebar over the column is great. Right way
to go. *

*FYI, The 'divert to the left' is just closing the tiddlers on the right,
not diverting them.*

*Oh, wait, with the sidebar set up like this, there is no way to horizontal
scroll. Some of the tiddlers in the system tab are long and unreadable. Not
sure what to do about that. I still prefer the sidebar coming out over the
right column.But it makes sections of the system and shadow tabs unusable.*


*At some point I will try to reduce the space between the two columns by
half, and add that space to the far right so the right side tiddlers don't
touch the side. *

*I can actually see myself using the Open tab with a setup like this,
something I never use (because I typically use zoomin)*

Regards,
> Saq
>
>
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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Updated demo: https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/doubleblink.html

I have only spent a few minutes looking at Roam, but from what I saw
doesn't it have one note open on the left, and can have several open in the
sidebar on the right?
Anyway, good to take inspiration but ultimately the aim should be to create
a workflow that makes sense and is useful.

These are the eyesore icons I am referring to, which can be used to
hide/show the second story without closing all the tiddlers in it:

[image: dualstoryicon.JPG]

The behaviour for the display of the second story is as follows:

- the second story is always closed when there is no tiddler open it
- shift clicking any tiddler link opens the second story and the tiddler
there.
- with the second story open, you have a button you can use to toggle
it. That is, you can leave tiddlers open in the second story but hide the
story, and open it again later.
In my personal use I have found this extremely useful, and anyone that
doesn't want this functionality can not use it or disable it.
- We need better icons and need to consider where to place this button,
perhaps in the page controls alone is enough?
(Personally I also use a keyboard shortcut for this) The button in the
page control area can already be disabled via configuration options and the
one in the side bar can also be made a config option.

Regarding folding:

- you could put the fold button to the left of the tiddler title.
Alternatively the tiddler title itself could be clickable and act to
fold/unfold the tiddler.
- I do feel like "fold others" would be useful if offered better
affordance.
- Note that I bake in the setting that turns all Tiddler titles into
links. This is handy to shift-click and open the same tiddler in the other
story. However, this and the divert buttons offer very similar
functionality and we don't necessarily need both.
Shift+ click on the title opens the same tiddler in the other story, now
you have it in both stories. Divert moves it to the other story.
So there is room here to choose one of the two and either not have the
tiddler titles as links, or not have the divert buttons and free up toolbar
space.

Regards,
Saq

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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-16 Thread Cyrill

TX for your reply,

Yes I mean using tags or fields value to specify in which story a tiddler 
opens in. This is useful when you have links to tiddlers in the left story, 
you want only show in the right story (without using the little arrows 
above).

Kind regards

Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 18:44:06 UTC+2 schrieb Saq Imtiaz:
>
> Cyril: Unless I've misunderstood you, the behaviour is already as you 
> describe. The left story is the default one. As such all links in menus, 
> sidebars etc (i.e. anywhere outside a story) will open in that default left 
> story unless you also hold down shift.
>
> The only exception to this is the Open sidebar tab, where the links 
> showing which tiddlers are open in the left pane can be clicked to scroll 
> those tiddlers into view.
>
> Or do you mean using tags or fields to specify which story a tiddler opens 
> in?
>
> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 6:24:54 PM UTC+2, Cyrill wrote:
>>
>> Hey Saq,
>>
>> I think it can be useful to force tiddlers (tags or fields) only to open 
>> via links oder sidetabs in one story pane (only on left side or right 
>> side). 
>>
>> Just an idea...
>>
>> Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 16:55:43 UTC+2 schrieb Saq Imtiaz:
>>>
>>> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project 
>>> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
>>> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
>>> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
>>> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
>>> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>>>
>>> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
>>> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
>>> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
>>> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
>>> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
>>> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
>>> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
>>> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
>>> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
>>> in the first story as well. 
>>>
>>> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a 
>>> user configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration 
>>> demo, the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open 
>>> whereas the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple 
>>> tiddlers open. Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as 
>>> changing its storyview to classic. 
>>> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
>>> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
>>> serve as the default.
>>>
>>> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
>>> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
>>> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
>>> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
>>> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
>>> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.
>>>
>>> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
>>> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
>>> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
>>> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
>>> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that 
>>> can be used to trigger two different modals: 
>>> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the 
>>> main story or shift+click to open in the second story.
>>> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
>>> This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently 
>>> share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and 
>>> replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core 
>>> support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished 
>>> the migration and updates.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Saq
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:

 Hi Saq

 A user on Twitter wrote this:

 My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in 
 the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the 
 search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, 
 hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column.

 I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot 
 of

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

See my comments in *bold*

On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 12:19 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:

> Dave: interesting, as my personal preference would be for one tiddler on
> the left and multiple on the right for reference :)
>

*Actually, I have the same preference too! I actually wrote the opposite
words then transposed them. I felt maybe I was pushing my preferences in
ways that went against the format of TiddlyWiki and Roam. The reasons I
went against my personal preferences are these: *

*1) TiddlyWiki has a left story river, so people might expect it there, and
anything supplemental tends to be on the right*
*2) Roam, which TiddlyBlink is imitating, has default working page on the
left as well, and shift click to open secondary page(s) to the right.*


> Anyway, we might start off as I am suggesting simply because its easier to
> get working and then take it from there. The zoomin storyview - which we
> need to show just one tiddler - isn't playing nice in the second story at
> the moment.
>

*Okay, that is fine. *

> Ideally I do think this needs to be user configurable and we should be
> able to manage that.
>

*Great*

>
> I think we need to get something usable together and make it avaiable as a
> proof of concept or beta version, and hopefully get some feedback from
> people using it before we try to refine the behaviour too much.
>

*Good idea*

>
> Btw, those icons for one vs two stories are an eyesore. Any suggestions
> for better icons we can use?
>

*Not sure I have seen the icons that you are referring to.*

>
> I also have some other thoughts regarding the UI for TiddlyBlink since
> it's open on my screen:
> - I can't tell what the + button in the tiddler toolbar is for, it needs a
> tooltip.
>


*Good idea. Adding it to the list of needed changes. *

> - the eye icon and the menu it shows might be better suited at the bottom
> of the tiddler in the references area, would reduce clutter at the top too.
> Or altogether hidden away in a global settings menu if it wont be used too
> often.
>


*I plan to move the eye icon and the full screen icon to the top of the
'more' menu*

- suggest making the "fold"/"fold others" feature more easily accessible at
> least in the tiddlers in the second (right hand) story.
>

*Once you get a beta of the main components I want to play with the folding
to see how it should ideally go, including CSS changes for smaller text in
the tiddler titles*

> - the "more actions" dropdown button of the tiddler toolbar being in the
> middle of other buttons rather than on one of the edges means it easier to
> overlook that it offers several options in a dropdown menu
>

*My goal had been to keep the core icons in the same arrangement and the
TiddlyBlink icons separate. I think what you are describing will be less of
a problem when I move the two icons into more.*


*Thanks again for all the thought you are putting into this.*

>
> Regards,
> Saq
>
> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 6:08:20 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Saq for your helpful thoughts.
>>
>> I think I like the idea of a right hand column with one tiddler only, and
>> a left hand column with scrolling story river. Great to hear that could be
>> configurable by the user.
>>
>> I have no personal preferences regarding hotkeys. I don't get the
>> impression that they would be that helpful for TiddlyBlink.
>>
>> I will look forward to seeing what you cook up, as time allows. Blessings!
>>
>> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 9:55:43 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project
>>> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather
>>> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up.
>>> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I
>>> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals
>>> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>>>
>>> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed
>>> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if
>>> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to
>>> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only
>>> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them
>>> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second
>>> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most
>>> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in
>>> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers
>>> in the first story as well.
>>>
>>> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a
>>> user configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration
>>> demo, the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open
>>> whereas the second uses the classic storyview and can have

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Dave: interesting, as my personal preference would be for one tiddler on 
the left and multiple on the right for reference :) 
Anyway, we might start off as I am suggesting simply because its easier to 
get working and then take it from there. The zoomin storyview - which we 
need to show just one tiddler - isn't playing nice in the second story at 
the moment. 
Ideally I do think this needs to be user configurable and we should be able 
to manage that.

I think we need to get something usable together and make it avaiable as a 
proof of concept or beta version, and hopefully get some feedback from 
people using it before we try to refine the behaviour too much.

Btw, those icons for one vs two stories are an eyesore. Any suggestions for 
better icons we can use?

I also have some other thoughts regarding the UI for TiddlyBlink since it's 
open on my screen:
- I can't tell what the + button in the tiddler toolbar is for, it needs a 
tooltip.
- the eye icon and the menu it shows might be better suited at the bottom 
of the tiddler in the references area, would reduce clutter at the top too. 
Or altogether hidden away in a global settings menu if it wont be used too 
often.
- suggest making the "fold"/"fold others" feature more easily accessible at 
least in the tiddlers in the second (right hand) story.
- the "more actions" dropdown button of the tiddler toolbar being in the 
middle of other buttons rather than on one of the edges means it easier to 
overlook that it offers several options in a dropdown menu

Regards,
Saq

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 6:08:20 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thanks Saq for your helpful thoughts. 
>
> I think I like the idea of a right hand column with one tiddler only, and 
> a left hand column with scrolling story river. Great to hear that could be 
> configurable by the user. 
>
> I have no personal preferences regarding hotkeys. I don't get the 
> impression that they would be that helpful for TiddlyBlink.
>
> I will look forward to seeing what you cook up, as time allows. Blessings!
>
> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 9:55:43 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project 
>> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
>> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
>> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
>> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
>> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>>
>> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
>> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
>> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
>> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
>> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
>> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
>> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
>> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
>> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
>> in the first story as well. 
>>
>> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user 
>> configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, 
>> the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas 
>> the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. 
>> Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its 
>> storyview to classic. 
>> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
>> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
>> serve as the default.
>>
>> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
>> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
>> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
>> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
>> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
>> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.
>>
>> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
>> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
>> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
>> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
>> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can 
>> be used to trigger two different modals: 
>> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main 
>> story or shift+click to open in the second story.
>> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
>> This is a key

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-16 Thread Mark Krieg

I just ran across this conversation and I'm *thrilled* with what you guys 
are doing!  I highly agree with "user configurable setting". I love having 
loads of options as a user! I have several TiddlyWikis but one for my 
personal journal that currently has 4965 tiddlers with external image links 
and many _canonical_uri: of external audio. Using two story rivers has 
opened up a world of exploration to me!

Mark



On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 10:55:43 AM UTC-4, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project 
> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>
> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
> in the first story as well. 
>
> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user 
> configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, 
> the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas 
> the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. 
> Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its 
> storyview to classic. 
> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
> serve as the default.
>
> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.
>
> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can 
> be used to trigger two different modals: 
> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main 
> story or shift+click to open in the second story.
> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
> This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently 
> share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and 
> replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core 
> support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished 
> the migration and updates.
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>
> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Hi Saq
>>
>> A user on Twitter wrote this:
>>
>> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in 
>> the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the 
>> search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, 
>> hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column.
>>
>> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot 
>> of tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to 
>> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with 
>> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I 
>> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Saq
>>>
>>> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage 
>>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this 
>>> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it 
>>> with a Favorites plugin tab.
>>>
>>> Blessings
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>>
 Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of 
 me hurriedly hacking both the

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Cyril: Unless I've misunderstood you, the behaviour is already as you 
describe. The left story is the default one. As such all links in menus, 
sidebars etc (i.e. anywhere outside a story) will open in that default left 
story unless you also hold down shift.

The only exception to this is the Open sidebar tab, where the links showing 
which tiddlers are open in the left pane can be clicked to scroll those 
tiddlers into view.

Or do you mean using tags or fields to specify which story a tiddler opens 
in?

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 6:24:54 PM UTC+2, Cyrill wrote:
>
> Hey Saq,
>
> I think it can be useful to force tiddlers (tags or fields) only to open 
> via links oder sidetabs in one story pane (only on left side or right 
> side). 
>
> Just an idea...
>
> Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 16:55:43 UTC+2 schrieb Saq Imtiaz:
>>
>> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project 
>> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
>> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
>> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
>> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
>> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>>
>> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
>> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
>> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
>> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
>> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
>> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
>> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
>> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
>> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
>> in the first story as well. 
>>
>> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user 
>> configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, 
>> the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas 
>> the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. 
>> Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its 
>> storyview to classic. 
>> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
>> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
>> serve as the default.
>>
>> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
>> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
>> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
>> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
>> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
>> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.
>>
>> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
>> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
>> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
>> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
>> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can 
>> be used to trigger two different modals: 
>> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main 
>> story or shift+click to open in the second story.
>> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
>> This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently 
>> share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and 
>> replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core 
>> support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished 
>> the migration and updates.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Saq
>>
>> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Saq
>>>
>>> A user on Twitter wrote this:
>>>
>>> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in 
>>> the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the 
>>> search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, 
>>> hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column.
>>>
>>> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot 
>>> of tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to 
>>> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with 
>>> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I 
>>> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:

 Thanks Saq

 I think I would like to leave the

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-16 Thread Cyrill

Hey Saq,

I think it can be useful to force tiddlers (tags or fields) only to open 
via links oder sidetabs in one story pane (only on left side or right 
side). 

Just an idea...

Am Donnerstag, 16. April 2020 16:55:43 UTC+2 schrieb Saq Imtiaz:
>
> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project 
> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>
> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
> in the first story as well. 
>
> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user 
> configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, 
> the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas 
> the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. 
> Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its 
> storyview to classic. 
> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
> serve as the default.
>
> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.
>
> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can 
> be used to trigger two different modals: 
> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main 
> story or shift+click to open in the second story.
> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
> This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently 
> share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and 
> replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core 
> support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished 
> the migration and updates.
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>
> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Hi Saq
>>
>> A user on Twitter wrote this:
>>
>> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in 
>> the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the 
>> search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, 
>> hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column.
>>
>> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot 
>> of tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to 
>> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with 
>> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I 
>> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Saq
>>>
>>> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage 
>>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this 
>>> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it 
>>> with a Favorites plugin tab.
>>>
>>> Blessings
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>>
 Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of 
 me hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two 
 story layouts into TiddlyBlink.
 I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should 
 break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Thanks Saq for your helpful thoughts. 

I think I like the idea of a right hand column with one tiddler only, and a 
left hand column with scrolling story river. Great to hear that could be 
configurable by the user. 

I have no personal preferences regarding hotkeys. I don't get the 
impression that they would be that helpful for TiddlyBlink.

I will look forward to seeing what you cook up, as time allows. Blessings!

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 9:55:43 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project 
> my personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
> take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
> Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
> find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
> to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.
>
> My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
> get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
> you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
> quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
> gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
> to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
> story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
> of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
> the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
> in the first story as well. 
>
> The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user 
> configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, 
> the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas 
> the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. 
> Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its 
> storyview to classic. 
> I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
> configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
> serve as the default.
>
> Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
> and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
> is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
> this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
> seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
> TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.
>
> Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
> already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
> ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
> allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
> My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can 
> be used to trigger two different modals: 
> - one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main 
> story or shift+click to open in the second story.
> - the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
> This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently 
> share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and 
> replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core 
> support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished 
> the migration and updates.
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>
> On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Hi Saq
>>
>> A user on Twitter wrote this:
>>
>> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in 
>> the main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the 
>> search bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, 
>> hotkeys for moving a focused tiddler into the main column.
>>
>> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot 
>> of tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to 
>> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with 
>> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I 
>> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback?
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Saq
>>>
>>> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage 
>>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this 
>>> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it 
>>> with a Favorites plugin tab.
>>>
>>> Blessings
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>>
 Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of 
 me hurriedly hacking both the

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

David: that's good feedback. Note that I have been trying not to project my 
personal preferences for note-taking on to these discussions, but rather 
take my lead from you and others who are prospective users of this set up. 
Note taking habits and workflows can be different between individuals and I 
find that what works for me is actually quite different from what appeals 
to most who look to TiddlyWiki for solutions.

My personal experience of working with two stories is that it can indeed 
get confusing to have a lot of tiddlers open in both stories, especially if 
you have same tiddler open in both stories. This is however mitigated to 
quite some extent by means of the Open tab in the sidebar, that not only 
gives you an overview of the open tiddlers, but you can click any of them 
to scroll it into view (note this is currently bugging out for the second 
story in the demo but works in my original setup, will debug later). Most 
of the time I would have one tiddler open in the main story and several in 
the second as reference, but have quite often had and needed 2-3 tiddlers 
in the first story as well. 

The good news is that this is easy to tweak and could even be made a user 
configurable setting. If you notice, in the TiddlyBlink integration demo, 
the first story view only allows only tiddler to be visibly open whereas 
the second uses the classic storyview and can have multiple tiddlers open. 
Allowing more tiddlers in the first story is a simple as changing its 
storyview to classic. 
I suspect there is a need for more user feedback to determine what 
configuration is the most intuitive for most people, and should therefore 
serve as the default.

Regarding hot keys: I prefer keyboard shortcuts wherever possible myself 
and understand the appeal. For moving tiddlers between stories the problem 
is that TiddlyWiki doesn't really have a concept of a tiddler in focus, and 
this isn't trivial to implement reliably due to the refresh mechanism. I've 
seen chatter on github about work being planned on this area for the 
TiddlyWiki core so it would probably be best to wait for that.

Regarding search, keyboard shortcuts are very useful here. The core has 
already added shortcuts for the search fields (ctrl+shift+a and 
ctrl+shift+f) and there are changes forthcoming in the TW release that 
allows you to choose and open a search result via the keyboard alone.
My setup for the last couple of years has been to have shortcuts that can 
be used to trigger two different modals: 
- one with advanced search. Here I can click any link to open in the main 
story or shift+click to open in the second story.
- the other with a note taking UI for jotting down quick thoughts.
This is a key part of my personal notetaking workflow. I can't currently 
share a demo as I am in the process of updating from TiddlyWiki 5.1.17 and 
replacing my custom code for global keyboard shortcuts with the newer core 
support for it. But if there is interest I can post it once I've finished 
the migration and updates.

Regards,
Saq

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:27:02 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi Saq
>
> A user on Twitter wrote this:
>
> My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in the 
> main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the search 
> bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, hotkeys for 
> moving a focused tiddler into the main column.
>
> I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot of 
> tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to 
> find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with 
> a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I 
> am undecided. What do you think about his feedback?
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Saq
>>
>> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage 
>> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this 
>> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it 
>> with a Favorites plugin tab.
>>
>> Blessings
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz > > wrote:
>>
>>> Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of 
>>> me hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two 
>>> story layouts into TiddlyBlink.
>>> I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should 
>>> break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this 
>>> a bit more systematically.
>>> Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink 
>>> into it on the parallel tab on your demo at 
>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html
>>>
>>> If you want a third story in the parallel tab that could work too 
>>> but would require a few tweaks.
>>> One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Hi Saq

A user on Twitter wrote this:

My hunch is that the user might be better off with a single tiddler in the 
main column, a scrolling second column, hotkeys for pulling up the search 
bar, hotkeys for moving focus from main tiddler to the column, hotkeys for 
moving a focused tiddler into the main column.

I don't know about the hotkeys, but his point was that if one has a lot of 
tiddlers open in both columns, one would have to scroll both columns to 
find any given tiddler, so it might be better to have one fixed column with 
a limit of one tiddler, and a main scrolling column for all the others. I 
am undecided. What do you think about his feedback?

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 2:11:08 PM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thanks Saq
>
> I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage 
> https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this 
> point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it 
> with a Favorites plugin tab.
>
> Blessings
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>
>> Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of me 
>> hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two 
>> story layouts into TiddlyBlink.
>> I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should 
>> break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this 
>> a bit more systematically.
>> Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink into 
>> it on the parallel tab on your demo at 
>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html
>>
>> If you want a third story in the parallel tab that could work too but 
>> would require a few tweaks.
>> One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a workspace drawer, 
>> where you drag and drop tiddler titles that know you will need for what you 
>> are working on, but do not want open at the moment. I have a similar setup 
>> in one of my wikis.
>>
>> I will work through what we have discussed as time allows, and keep you 
>> updated. No worries, we are on the same page. I view you as a product owner 
>> representing everyone that does and might use the end product you are 
>> working on :)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Saq
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:57:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Saq, thanks for the detailed reply. See my comments below in* bold*.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>>
 Hi David,

 I'm glad the quick integration was helpful.  I suggest we move beyond 
 that but take a little time to discuss exactly which functionality and 
 behaviour we want. After which I can help identify the necessary bits and 
 even tweak things if necessary. 

 Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them.
 So the functionality you want is:
 - shift click to open in the second story

>>> *Yes* 
>>>
 - shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template?

>>>
>>> *?? No, I don't think so.*
>>>
 - divert buttons

>>>
>>> *Yes. *
>>>
>>>
>>> *Before I forget - did you do something to my parallel tab? It wasn't 
>>> working. Was that a necessary change so that the stories would work?*
>>>

 A couple of other things to consider:
 - the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there were 
 issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for more 
 than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do you want 
 to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a different 
 view 
 template that makes it easier to fold them? 

>>>
>>> *I think classic storyview for both columns would be best.*
>>>
>>> *I was even thinking about adding the ability to easily fold tiddlers. 
>>> See how this is done in Roam in the attached gif*
>>>  
>>>
 - I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story 
 even if there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later and 
 pick up where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I sometimes 
 use the second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to come 
 back to it when needed.

>>>
>>> *I do too, but it should be viewed by default in the online file so 
>>> people are aware of it.*
>>>

 Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components we 
 would be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or cleaned 
 up. As I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 and I am 
 sure there are tricks I missed and core improvements since that we can 
 leverage. I am happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule is 
 a 
 bit crazy at the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. So I 
 go from having a fair bit of time to some very busy days.

>>>
>>> *I am not in a rush, and appreciate your willingness to help me on

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Thanks Saq

I think I would like to leave the parallel tab as it is on its homepage
https://giffmex.org/gifts/tiddlyblink.html rather than tweak it at this
point. It is almost superfluous and could be removed. But I may replace it
with a Favorites plugin tab.

Blessings


On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 2:04 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:

> Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of me
> hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two
> story layouts into TiddlyBlink.
> I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should
> break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this
> a bit more systematically.
> Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink into
> it on the parallel tab on your demo at
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html
>
> If you want a third story in the parallel tab that could work too but
> would require a few tweaks.
> One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a workspace drawer,
> where you drag and drop tiddler titles that know you will need for what you
> are working on, but do not want open at the moment. I have a similar setup
> in one of my wikis.
>
> I will work through what we have discussed as time allows, and keep you
> updated. No worries, we are on the same page. I view you as a product owner
> representing everyone that does and might use the end product you are
> working on :)
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:57:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Hi Saq, thanks for the detailed reply. See my comments below in* bold*.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> I'm glad the quick integration was helpful.  I suggest we move beyond
>>> that but take a little time to discuss exactly which functionality and
>>> behaviour we want. After which I can help identify the necessary bits and
>>> even tweak things if necessary.
>>>
>>> Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them.
>>> So the functionality you want is:
>>> - shift click to open in the second story
>>>
>> *Yes*
>>
>>> - shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template?
>>>
>>
>> *?? No, I don't think so.*
>>
>>> - divert buttons
>>>
>>
>> *Yes. *
>>
>>
>> *Before I forget - did you do something to my parallel tab? It wasn't
>> working. Was that a necessary change so that the stories would work?*
>>
>>>
>>> A couple of other things to consider:
>>> - the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there were
>>> issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for more
>>> than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do you want
>>> to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a different view
>>> template that makes it easier to fold them?
>>>
>>
>> *I think classic storyview for both columns would be best.*
>>
>> *I was even thinking about adding the ability to easily fold tiddlers.
>> See how this is done in Roam in the attached gif*
>>
>>
>>> - I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story even
>>> if there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later and pick
>>> up where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I sometimes use
>>> the second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to come back
>>> to it when needed.
>>>
>>
>> *I do too, but it should be viewed by default in the online file so
>> people are aware of it.*
>>
>>>
>>> Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components we
>>> would be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or cleaned
>>> up. As I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 and I am
>>> sure there are tricks I missed and core improvements since that we can
>>> leverage. I am happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule is a
>>> bit crazy at the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. So I
>>> go from having a fair bit of time to some very busy days.
>>>
>>
>> *I am not in a rush, and appreciate your willingness to help me on this.
>> You and so many people here have been so generous with their time and
>> skills. But please don't think of it as being for me, but for TiddlyWiki,
>> to have a wickedly good TW 'app' to get people on board*
>>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that everything about the appearance of the story, the
>>> settings at which it becomes visible etc is all done via CSS which we can
>>> customize as much as necessary to fit your workflow and vision.
>>> Perhaps we can look up some screen resolution stats to see what a good
>>> cut off point for showing two stories should be. But I also feel like with
>>> a horizontal resolution of less than 1270, there just isn't enough screen
>>> space for two stories.
>>> You could maybe push it down to 1024 but then show the sidebar
>>> overlapping the second story? The idea being to show it when needed and
>>> otherwise keep it hidden.
>>>
>>
>> *I am not sure. I think my

Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Dave: the parallel tab breaking may have been an inadverdent result of me 
hurriedly hacking both the story in a tab, as well as the parallel two 
story layouts into TiddlyBlink.
I don't see any reason why the original way you had that working should 
break, so that should hopefully get automatically resolved when we do this 
a bit more systematically.
Note that it does seem to work when I paste a title like TiddlyBlink into 
it on the parallel tab on your demo at 
https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html

If you want a third story in the parallel tab that could work too but 
would require a few tweaks.
One potential use for that tab could be as a sort of a workspace drawer, 
where you drag and drop tiddler titles that know you will need for what you 
are working on, but do not want open at the moment. I have a similar setup 
in one of my wikis.

I will work through what we have discussed as time allows, and keep you 
updated. No worries, we are on the same page. I view you as a product owner 
representing everyone that does and might use the end product you are 
working on :)

Regards,
Saq

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:57:55 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi Saq, thanks for the detailed reply. See my comments below in* bold*.
>
> On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 12:27 PM Saq Imtiaz  > wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>> I'm glad the quick integration was helpful.  I suggest we move beyond 
>> that but take a little time to discuss exactly which functionality and 
>> behaviour we want. After which I can help identify the necessary bits and 
>> even tweak things if necessary. 
>>
>> Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them.
>> So the functionality you want is:
>> - shift click to open in the second story
>>
> *Yes* 
>
>> - shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template?
>>
>
> *?? No, I don't think so.*
>
>> - divert buttons
>>
>
> *Yes. *
>
>
> *Before I forget - did you do something to my parallel tab? It wasn't 
> working. Was that a necessary change so that the stories would work?*
>
>>
>> A couple of other things to consider:
>> - the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there were 
>> issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for more 
>> than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do you want 
>> to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a different view 
>> template that makes it easier to fold them? 
>>
>
> *I think classic storyview for both columns would be best.*
>
> *I was even thinking about adding the ability to easily fold tiddlers. See 
> how this is done in Roam in the attached gif*
>  
>
>> - I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story even 
>> if there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later and pick 
>> up where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I sometimes use 
>> the second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to come back 
>> to it when needed.
>>
>
> *I do too, but it should be viewed by default in the online file so people 
> are aware of it.*
>
>>
>> Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components we 
>> would be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or cleaned 
>> up. As I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 and I am 
>> sure there are tricks I missed and core improvements since that we can 
>> leverage. I am happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule is a 
>> bit crazy at the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. So I 
>> go from having a fair bit of time to some very busy days.
>>
>
> *I am not in a rush, and appreciate your willingness to help me on this. 
> You and so many people here have been so generous with their time and 
> skills. But please don't think of it as being for me, but for TiddlyWiki, 
> to have a wickedly good TW 'app' to get people on board*
>
>>
>> Keep in mind that everything about the appearance of the story, the 
>> settings at which it becomes visible etc is all done via CSS which we can 
>> customize as much as necessary to fit your workflow and vision.
>> Perhaps we can look up some screen resolution stats to see what a good 
>> cut off point for showing two stories should be. But I also feel like with 
>> a horizontal resolution of less than 1270, there just isn't enough screen 
>> space for two stories.
>> You could maybe push it down to 1024 but then show the sidebar 
>> overlapping the second story? The idea being to show it when needed and 
>> otherwise keep it hidden.
>>
>
> *I am not sure. I think my laptop is roughly standard size: 15" diagonal 
> screen, 1920 x 1080 resolution, and the tiddlers are just wide enough to 
> work on even when the sidebar is showing.*
>
>>
>> Note that the divert buttons are already in that prototype I posted, they 
>> just aren't visible until two stories are active, which from what I 
>> remember is purely css based. Making that visible at all times would 
>> therefore

[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Hi David,

I'm glad the quick integration was helpful.  I suggest we move beyond that 
but take a little time to discuss exactly which functionality and behaviour 
we want. After which I can help identify the necessary bits and even tweak 
things if necessary. 

Agreed on the dropzones, I never use them.
So the functionality you want is:
- shift click to open in the second story
- shift click edit button to open in second story in edit template?
- divert buttons

A couple of other things to consider:
- the second story is currently set to classic storyview as there were 
issues with the one you are using for TiddlyBlink. This allows for more 
than one tiddler to be open in the second story. Is that OK or do you want 
to limit that to one? Perhaps allow more tiddlers but have a different view 
template that makes it easier to fold them? 
- I personally like the idea of being able to hide the second story even if 
there is a tiddler(s) open it, and be able to restore it later and pick up 
where you were. Is this behaviour something you want? I sometimes use the 
second story a bit like a "to do" list and like being able to come back to 
it when needed.

Also if you give me a little time, I can go through the components we would 
be adding to TiddlyBlink to see if they can be optimized or cleaned up. As 
I mentioned I wrote this when first getting to know TW5 and I am sure there 
are tricks I missed and core improvements since that we can leverage. I am 
happy to help just please keep in mind that my schedule is a bit crazy at 
the moment, as I am volunteering at the local hospital. So I go from having 
a fair bit of time to some very busy days.

Keep in mind that everything about the appearance of the story, the 
settings at which it becomes visible etc is all done via CSS which we can 
customize as much as necessary to fit your workflow and vision.
Perhaps we can look up some screen resolution stats to see what a good cut 
off point for showing two stories should be. But I also feel like with a 
horizontal resolution of less than 1270, there just isn't enough screen 
space for two stories.
You could maybe push it down to 1024 but then show the sidebar overlapping 
the second story? The idea being to show it when needed and otherwise keep 
it hidden.

Note that the divert buttons are already in that prototype I posted, they 
just aren't visible until two stories are active, which from what I 
remember is purely css based. Making that visible at all times would 
therefore not be difficult.
$:/_sq/Stories/divertTiddlerMacro

I haven't looked into packaging things as a plugin for TW5 but if necessary 
we can go that route. Alternatively creating a button people can drag is 
easy. We either tag all the tiddlers or just use a filter as below:
<$button class="tc-tag-label tc-btn-invisible" 
dragFilter="[prefix[$:/_sq/Stories]]  $:/core/ui/Buttons/more-tiddler-actions 
$:/config/_sq/Stories/story2 $:/config/Tiddlers/TitleLinks 
 $:/themes/tiddlywiki/vanilla/options/sidebarlayout">Drag me to 
install

Button widgets support a dragFilter attribute so we can make the payload 
for drag and drop whatever we need it to be.

Regards,
Saq

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:55:54 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> I agree with Diego, the TiddlyBlink with two columns, for those using 
> laptops, is the way to go. Coincidentally, it means you could have a list 
> of links in the parallel tab, and two story columns, so THREE tiddlers open 
> side by side.
>
> Also, I think you said it, and I just want to concur, the drop zones are 
> superfluous and unnecessary if you have shift-click and divert buttons.
>
> I would like to update TiddlyBlink with this, or else make a special 
> version of TiddlyBlink for this. But I want users to be able to drag it in 
> with a tag pill into their own files. Would I need to tag each of those 
> tiddlers individually? Or could this be a plugin?
>
> Also, what would be the optimal settings so that most laptop users would 
> see two columns upon arriving? I had to change it to 1270 to see them 
> because your files appear as one column for me. But would 1270 be 
> sufficient for most users?
>
> Finally, what tiddlers would be needed for the divert buttons? I like that 
> functionality.
>
> This is really great, Saq. You sure came back with a grand gesture of 
> generosity and genius!
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with that I 
>> hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations that will 
>> hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this useful.
>>
>> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown when 
>> there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link:
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html
>>
>> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well:
>>
>> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel

[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

For now I put an experimental version up here - is just Saq's plus two 
tiddlers open, adjusted the settings, and added instructions. 
https://giffmex.org/experiments/doubleblink.html.

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 10:55:54 AM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>
> I agree with Diego, the TiddlyBlink with two columns, for those using 
> laptops, is the way to go. Coincidentally, it means you could have a list 
> of links in the parallel tab, and two story columns, so THREE tiddlers open 
> side by side.
>
> Also, I think you said it, and I just want to concur, the drop zones are 
> superfluous and unnecessary if you have shift-click and divert buttons.
>
> I would like to update TiddlyBlink with this, or else make a special 
> version of TiddlyBlink for this. But I want users to be able to drag it in 
> with a tag pill into their own files. Would I need to tag each of those 
> tiddlers individually? Or could this be a plugin?
>
> Also, what would be the optimal settings so that most laptop users would 
> see two columns upon arriving? I had to change it to 1270 to see them 
> because your files appear as one column for me. But would 1270 be 
> sufficient for most users?
>
> Finally, what tiddlers would be needed for the divert buttons? I like that 
> functionality.
>
> This is really great, Saq. You sure came back with a grand gesture of 
> generosity and genius!
>
> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with that I 
>> hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations that will 
>> hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this useful.
>>
>> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown when 
>> there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link:
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html
>>
>> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well:
>>
>> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab:
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html
>>
>> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab):
>> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html
>>
>> Original version of my two story implementation:
>> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> Regards,
>> Saq
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

I agree with Diego, the TiddlyBlink with two columns, for those using 
laptops, is the way to go. Coincidentally, it means you could have a list 
of links in the parallel tab, and two story columns, so THREE tiddlers open 
side by side.

Also, I think you said it, and I just want to concur, the drop zones are 
superfluous and unnecessary if you have shift-click and divert buttons.

I would like to update TiddlyBlink with this, or else make a special 
version of TiddlyBlink for this. But I want users to be able to drag it in 
with a tag pill into their own files. Would I need to tag each of those 
tiddlers individually? Or could this be a plugin?

Also, what would be the optimal settings so that most laptop users would 
see two columns upon arriving? I had to change it to 1270 to see them 
because your files appear as one column for me. But would 1270 be 
sufficient for most users?

Finally, what tiddlers would be needed for the divert buttons? I like that 
functionality.

This is really great, Saq. You sure came back with a grand gesture of 
generosity and genius!

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with that I 
> hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations that will 
> hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this useful.
>
> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown when 
> there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html
>
> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well:
>
> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html
>
> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab):
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html
>
> Original version of my two story implementation:
> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-15 Thread Mohammad

Lovely!

Many thanks Saq!

Cheers
Mohammad

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 7:27:39 PM UTC+4:30, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with that I 
> hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations that will 
> hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this useful.
>
> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown when 
> there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html
>
> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well:
>
> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html
>
> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab):
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html
>
> Original version of my two story implementation:
> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-15 Thread Diego Mesa

The tiddlyblink with shift+click to open in second story column (not tab) 
represents a huge usability increase!!!

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 9:57:39 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with that I 
> hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations that will 
> hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this useful.
>
> - Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown when 
> there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html
>
> The above behaviour applies to the next two as well:
>
> - TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab:
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html
>
> - TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab):
> https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html
>
> Original version of my two story implementation:
> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

For those that are interested, here a few variations to play with that I 
hope you might find useful. These are all quick integrations that will 
hopefully serve as a starting point for anyone that finds this useful.

- Alternate behaviour where the second story is automatically shown when 
there is at least one tiddler open it. Shift click a tiddler link:
https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/two-story-alt.html

The above behaviour applies to the next two as well:

- TiddlyBlink with a substory in the parallel tab:
https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-with-tab-story.html

- TiddlyBlink with two parallel stories (not in a tab):
https://saqimtiaz.github.io/sq-tw/tiddlyblink-two-story-saq.html

Original version of my two story implementation:
http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/

Regards,
Saq

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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Thanks Saq, works great!




On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:33 AM Saq Imtiaz  wrote:

> David: seems the scrollbar is a CSS issue. I have added a quick fix for
> now that should mitigate it.
>
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:34:10 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Thanks I will check that out. I have to attend to other things for a
>> while.
>>
>> The scrollbar was missing even though both stories had tiddlers that
>> extended below the screen. My settings were 1270 and 1270.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> David: not sure but possible the scrollbar was only needed for the
>>> sidebar, i.e. the story fits on screen without scrolling. Open more
>>> tiddlers in that story and you should get a scrollbar.
>>>
>>> Also, reload. Added something for TiddlyBlink that *might* work.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:22:18 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:

 One question: where did the right story scrollbar go when I hid the
 sidebar?

 On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for
> the last couple of years, as it has come to my attention that there is
> still some interest in this. This isn't really designed to be freely
> reusable at this point and is still rough around the edges, but hopefully
> it proves useful. I am planning to rewrite this from scratch based on my
> learnings in the near future.
>
> This was done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today
> the UI would be significantly different. I implemented this in 2017 partly
> as an exercise in learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and
> it worked better than anticipated so I have just kept using it without
> taking the time to refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in
> terms of code and CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain
> width the sidebar is hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults
> to a one stop layout. It's also optimized with larger screens in mind
> (1920px+ width)
>
> Furthermore some parts could be better streamlined now that I
> understand TW5 a lot better and also due to some welcome changes in the
> core.
>
> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> Let me know if anything doesn't work, I've ripped this out of a larger
> and more complex TiddlyWiki and hopefully I got all the important bits.
>
>- Shift click links to open in the other story
>- Shift click the edit button to edit in the other story - I
>probably use this feature the most.
>- Dropzones above each story - not as useful as I had first
>expected
>- Each tiddler has a "divert" button in the toolbar that opens it
>in the other story.
>- Screen width > 1920, you get two stories and the normal sidebar
>- Screen width > 1920 %% < 1280, the sidebar overlaps the second
>story and can be hidden
>- Screen width < 1280, the second story is hidden
>
> If you add this as is to a TiddlyWiki with a custom theme, you more
> than likely will need to adapt the css a fair bit.
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>
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> .
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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

David: seems the scrollbar is a CSS issue. I have added a quick fix for now 
that should mitigate it.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:34:10 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thanks I will check that out. I have to attend to other things for a while.
>
> The scrollbar was missing even though both stories had tiddlers that 
> extended below the screen. My settings were 1270 and 1270.
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> David: not sure but possible the scrollbar was only needed for the 
>> sidebar, i.e. the story fits on screen without scrolling. Open more 
>> tiddlers in that story and you should get a scrollbar.
>>
>> Also, reload. Added something for TiddlyBlink that *might* work.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:22:18 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> One question: where did the right story scrollbar go when I hid the 
>>> sidebar?
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

 Hey everyone,

 I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for 
 the last couple of years, as it has come to my attention that there is 
 still some interest in this. This isn't really designed to be freely 
 reusable at this point and is still rough around the edges, but hopefully 
 it proves useful. I am planning to rewrite this from scratch based on my 
 learnings in the near future.

 This was done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today the 
 UI would be significantly different. I implemented this in 2017 partly as 
 an exercise in learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and it 
 worked better than anticipated so I have just kept using it without taking 
 the time to refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in terms 
 of code and CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain width 
 the 
 sidebar is hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults to a one 
 stop layout. It's also optimized with larger screens in mind (1920px+ 
 width)

 Furthermore some parts could be better streamlined now that I 
 understand TW5 a lot better and also due to some welcome changes in the 
 core.

 http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/

 Let me know if anything doesn't work, I've ripped this out of a larger 
 and more complex TiddlyWiki and hopefully I got all the important bits.

- Shift click links to open in the other story
- Shift click the edit button to edit in the other story - I 
probably use this feature the most.
- Dropzones above each story - not as useful as I had first expected
- Each tiddler has a "divert" button in the toolbar that opens it 
in the other story.
- Screen width > 1920, you get two stories and the normal sidebar
- Screen width > 1920 %% < 1280, the sidebar overlaps the second 
story and can be hidden
- Screen width < 1280, the second story is hidden

 If you add this as is to a TiddlyWiki with a custom theme, you more 
 than likely will need to adapt the css a fair bit.

 Regards,
 Saq

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

That's good to know regarding touch screen, thanks, though not unexpected. 
So far my use-case has never involved a touch screen device. That might 
change in the near future so the feedback is useful and I will investigate 
when I get the chance.

 I will re-iterate that this isn't really meant to be a setup for others to 
use directly, but rather to facilitate those wishing to implement a 
multiple story setup of their own.

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 11:01:11 AM UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Looks very nice!
>
> Unfortunately I can't really use it optimally on a touch screen tablet (no 
> mouse, just finger).
>
> Best wishes
> TT
>
> Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for the 
>> last couple of years, 
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-15 Thread TiddlyTweeter

Looks very nice!

Unfortunately I can't really use it optimally on a touch screen tablet (no 
mouse, just finger).

Best wishes
TT

Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
>
> I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for the 
> last couple of years, 
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-14 Thread Saq Imtiaz

Dave: Not sure about the scrollbars. I've never really used it at lower 
resolutions. Perhaps post a screenshot? 
As I mentioned, this was designed for personal use and as a proof of 
concept rather than for general consumption, so it's possible there are 
some unresolved issues on smaller screens. But it should just be CSS and 
not too hard to fix.

This setup is part of a larger and multi-facted workflow that works for me, 
and I have shared it mostly as a guide as to how to get two stories up and 
running as I think it would benefit the work a few people in the community 
are doing.

I've added a minimal fusion of the shift+click capabilities with 
TiddlyBlink as well in the tiddler For TiddlyBlink:
http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com 

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:34:10 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thanks I will check that out. I have to attend to other things for a while.
>
> The scrollbar was missing even though both stories had tiddlers that 
> extended below the screen. My settings were 1270 and 1270.
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> David: not sure but possible the scrollbar was only needed for the 
>> sidebar, i.e. the story fits on screen without scrolling. Open more 
>> tiddlers in that story and you should get a scrollbar.
>>
>> Also, reload. Added something for TiddlyBlink that *might* work.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:22:18 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> One question: where did the right story scrollbar go when I hid the 
>>> sidebar?
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

 Hey everyone,

 I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for 
 the last couple of years, as it has come to my attention that there is 
 still some interest in this. This isn't really designed to be freely 
 reusable at this point and is still rough around the edges, but hopefully 
 it proves useful. I am planning to rewrite this from scratch based on my 
 learnings in the near future.

 This was done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today the 
 UI would be significantly different. I implemented this in 2017 partly as 
 an exercise in learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and it 
 worked better than anticipated so I have just kept using it without taking 
 the time to refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in terms 
 of code and CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain width 
 the 
 sidebar is hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults to a one 
 stop layout. It's also optimized with larger screens in mind (1920px+ 
 width)

 Furthermore some parts could be better streamlined now that I 
 understand TW5 a lot better and also due to some welcome changes in the 
 core.

 http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/

 Let me know if anything doesn't work, I've ripped this out of a larger 
 and more complex TiddlyWiki and hopefully I got all the important bits.

- Shift click links to open in the other story
- Shift click the edit button to edit in the other story - I 
probably use this feature the most.
- Dropzones above each story - not as useful as I had first expected
- Each tiddler has a "divert" button in the toolbar that opens it 
in the other story.
- Screen width > 1920, you get two stories and the normal sidebar
- Screen width > 1920 %% < 1280, the sidebar overlaps the second 
story and can be hidden
- Screen width < 1280, the second story is hidden

 If you add this as is to a TiddlyWiki with a custom theme, you more 
 than likely will need to adapt the css a fair bit.

 Regards,
 Saq

>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-14 Thread Mat

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:
>
> 1) drag-block-side-panel.gif 
> 
>

Oh! That's very cool! Not that you asked for it but I think the drag'n 
dropping of bullets should be doable in TW also but maybe the bullet 
content has to be in separate tiddlers already... not sure... maybe the 
action of dropping could also create a tiddler... 

> 2) menu-collapse.gif 
> 
>

OK, so that is for comparing notes then. (And, again not that you asked, 
but that "open/close" is of course doable with the revealwidget)

Thanks.

<:-) 

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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-14 Thread Anne-Laure Le Cunff

@Mat Here is are a couple of gifs created which shows how you can use the
side-by-side view, I use it all the time collate content from other notes
into a new one to write blog posts :)

1) drag-block-side-panel.gif


2) menu-collapse.gif


*-*
*Anne-Laure Le Cunff* • Founder, Ness Labs 
Newsletter  • Twitter
 • Community



On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 7:03 PM Mat  wrote:

> @David - OK, makes sense. Thanks.
>
> <:-)
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-14 Thread Mat

@David - OK, makes sense. Thanks.

<:-) 

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Re: [tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

@Mat

Writers would like to see source material next to what they are writing.

Thinkers may want to compare two ideas side by side.


On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 12:50 PM Mat  wrote:

> Forgive my lack of imagination but could someone describe the workflow, or
> rather the use case, for this? I don't say that as a critique, I'm just
> wondering why I don't get how this would be so useful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> <:-)
>
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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-14 Thread Mat

Forgive my lack of imagination but could someone describe the workflow, or 
rather the use case, for this? I don't say that as a critique, I'm just 
wondering why I don't get how this would be so useful.

Thanks.

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

Thanks I will check that out. I have to attend to other things for a while.

The scrollbar was missing even though both stories had tiddlers that 
extended below the screen. My settings were 1270 and 1270.


On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:27:40 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> David: not sure but possible the scrollbar was only needed for the 
> sidebar, i.e. the story fits on screen without scrolling. Open more 
> tiddlers in that story and you should get a scrollbar.
>
> Also, reload. Added something for TiddlyBlink that *might* work.
>
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:22:18 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> One question: where did the right story scrollbar go when I hid the 
>> sidebar?
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey everyone,
>>>
>>> I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for 
>>> the last couple of years, as it has come to my attention that there is 
>>> still some interest in this. This isn't really designed to be freely 
>>> reusable at this point and is still rough around the edges, but hopefully 
>>> it proves useful. I am planning to rewrite this from scratch based on my 
>>> learnings in the near future.
>>>
>>> This was done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today the 
>>> UI would be significantly different. I implemented this in 2017 partly as 
>>> an exercise in learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and it 
>>> worked better than anticipated so I have just kept using it without taking 
>>> the time to refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in terms 
>>> of code and CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain width the 
>>> sidebar is hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults to a one 
>>> stop layout. It's also optimized with larger screens in mind (1920px+ width)
>>>
>>> Furthermore some parts could be better streamlined now that I understand 
>>> TW5 a lot better and also due to some welcome changes in the core.
>>>
>>> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>
>>> Let me know if anything doesn't work, I've ripped this out of a larger 
>>> and more complex TiddlyWiki and hopefully I got all the important bits.
>>>
>>>- Shift click links to open in the other story
>>>- Shift click the edit button to edit in the other story - I 
>>>probably use this feature the most.
>>>- Dropzones above each story - not as useful as I had first expected
>>>- Each tiddler has a "divert" button in the toolbar that opens it in 
>>>the other story.
>>>- Screen width > 1920, you get two stories and the normal sidebar
>>>- Screen width > 1920 %% < 1280, the sidebar overlaps the second 
>>>story and can be hidden
>>>- Screen width < 1280, the second story is hidden
>>>
>>> If you add this as is to a TiddlyWiki with a custom theme, you more than 
>>> likely will need to adapt the css a fair bit.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Saq
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

2020-04-14 Thread Saq Imtiaz

David: not sure but possible the scrollbar was only needed for the sidebar, 
i.e. the story fits on screen without scrolling. Open more tiddlers in that 
story and you should get a scrollbar.

Also, reload. Added something for TiddlyBlink that *might* work.

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 7:22:18 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:
>
> One question: where did the right story scrollbar go when I hid the 
> sidebar?
>
> On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>>
>> Hey everyone,
>>
>> I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for the 
>> last couple of years, as it has come to my attention that there is still 
>> some interest in this. This isn't really designed to be freely reusable at 
>> this point and is still rough around the edges, but hopefully it proves 
>> useful. I am planning to rewrite this from scratch based on my learnings in 
>> the near future.
>>
>> This was done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today the 
>> UI would be significantly different. I implemented this in 2017 partly as 
>> an exercise in learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and it 
>> worked better than anticipated so I have just kept using it without taking 
>> the time to refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in terms 
>> of code and CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain width the 
>> sidebar is hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults to a one 
>> stop layout. It's also optimized with larger screens in mind (1920px+ width)
>>
>> Furthermore some parts could be better streamlined now that I understand 
>> TW5 a lot better and also due to some welcome changes in the core.
>>
>> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> Let me know if anything doesn't work, I've ripped this out of a larger 
>> and more complex TiddlyWiki and hopefully I got all the important bits.
>>
>>- Shift click links to open in the other story
>>- Shift click the edit button to edit in the other story - I probably 
>>use this feature the most.
>>- Dropzones above each story - not as useful as I had first expected
>>- Each tiddler has a "divert" button in the toolbar that opens it in 
>>the other story.
>>- Screen width > 1920, you get two stories and the normal sidebar
>>- Screen width > 1920 %% < 1280, the sidebar overlaps the second 
>>story and can be hidden
>>- Screen width < 1280, the second story is hidden
>>
>> If you add this as is to a TiddlyWiki with a custom theme, you more than 
>> likely will need to adapt the css a fair bit.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Saq
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki

One question: where did the right story scrollbar go when I hid the sidebar?

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:
>
> Hey everyone,
>
> I am sharing my two story tiddlywiki setup that I have been using for the 
> last couple of years, as it has come to my attention that there is still 
> some interest in this. This isn't really designed to be freely reusable at 
> this point and is still rough around the edges, but hopefully it proves 
> useful. I am planning to rewrite this from scratch based on my learnings in 
> the near future.
>
> This was done more as a proof of concept and if I re-did this today the UI 
> would be significantly different. I implemented this in 2017 partly as an 
> exercise in learning TW5 (I was a long time TWC user years ago) and it 
> worked better than anticipated so I have just kept using it without taking 
> the time to refine it. So it can definitely do with some cleanup in terms 
> of code and CSS. Currently the CSS is responsive, below a certain width the 
> sidebar is hidden and if the screen is even smaller it defaults to a one 
> stop layout. It's also optimized with larger screens in mind (1920px+ width)
>
> Furthermore some parts could be better streamlined now that I understand 
> TW5 a lot better and also due to some welcome changes in the core.
>
> http://sq-twostories.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> Let me know if anything doesn't work, I've ripped this out of a larger and 
> more complex TiddlyWiki and hopefully I got all the important bits.
>
>- Shift click links to open in the other story
>- Shift click the edit button to edit in the other story - I probably 
>use this feature the most.
>- Dropzones above each story - not as useful as I had first expected
>- Each tiddler has a "divert" button in the toolbar that opens it in 
>the other story.
>- Screen width > 1920, you get two stories and the normal sidebar
>- Screen width > 1920 %% < 1280, the sidebar overlaps the second story 
>and can be hidden
>- Screen width < 1280, the second story is hidden
>
> If you add this as is to a TiddlyWiki with a custom theme, you more than 
> likely will need to adapt the css a fair bit.
>
> Regards,
> Saq
>

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[tw5] Re: Two stories in TiddlyWiki