subject:"Re\: \[TruthTalk\] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky\?"

Probably like the Kinderhook plates, that JoE tried to translate.Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good job, vince, I am saving most of this information.  To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question.DAVEH: Sorry John..I must have missed it the first time. As you may know, there has been an extraordinary amount of TT traffic lately.
Someone posted the notion that that there is some stone in Mexico with the ten commandments written on it and so on. Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without proof or is there some supporting evidence.DAVEH: I don't know anything about it. TT is the first time I've heard about it at all, so I can't offer an opinion. As interesting though it might be if true, I would have to be very skeptical, as it certainly sounds like a hoax.
 AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of the New World and the Bofm? DAVEH: LOL.Sure. I suspect they have received a ton of mail regarding the BofM over the years.
John-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
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I maintain Five email lists...
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-11 Thread elextech


 The ancient people were great seafarers, much better than current
history texts indicate. In America alone, people have found ancient
Celtic ogum script, Viking writings, and various others which I can't
remember. My point is that, even if there is a monolith (megalith?) with
the ten commandments, that would indicate that there was probably some
Hebrew or Hebrews on that site in ancient times. That does not
necessarily mean they were of the ten lost tribes (which we know were not
really lost). In my sometimes humble opinion, any such an artifact most
likely came from Hebrews who sailed with the Phoenicians or Egyptians or
some of the other ancient mariners, some of which are mentioned in the ot
as being trading partners with Israel during its brief period of empire /
hegemony over nearby lands.

vincent j fulton


On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:19:20 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good job, vince,   I am saving most of this information.   

To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question.   Someone posted the notion that
that there is some stone in Mexico with the ten commandments written on
it  and so on.  Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without proof or is
there some supporting evidence.

AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of
the New World and the Bofm?   

John 
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-11 Thread Chris Barr






\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ 



Greetings vincent et al in the Matchless 
NameofYahShua!!

Good thinking!

Not too many years ago an Oxford researcher discovered cocaine in ancient 
mummies. The researcher was scoffed at. Egyptian researchers looked 
into other mummies to disprove the cocaine notion. OOPS! Much to 
their dismay they verified the research instead. Cocaine was in ALL the 
mummies they examined.

Cocaine is a NEW WORLD plant. How did it get to ancient Egypt? 
SEAFARING vessels ... with Hebrews on 'em! Some o' those Hebrews stayed 
behind in the NEW WORLD! Voila (or rather "walla" to the less 
educated)! Ancient Hebrew script in the New World dating back 
millenia.

Psst ... mummification has always been a big mystery to "the 
experts". Couldn't figure out how the Egyptians were so successful at 
it. The secret ... another NEW WORLD plant ... tobacco ... tar residues 
being the key!



Ahava b' YahShua




















(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,









ChrisBarr
a servant 
of YHVH

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 03/11/2004 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins 
found in Kentucky?
   The ancient 
people were great seafarers, much better than current history texts 
indicate. In America alone, people have found ancient Celtic ogum 
script, Viking writings, and various others which I can't remember. My 
point is that, even if there is a monolith (megalith?) with the ten 
commandments, that would indicate that there was probably some Hebrew or 
Hebrews on that site in ancient times. That does not necessarily mean 
they were of the ten lost tribes (which we know were not really lost). 
In my sometimes humble opinion, any such an artifact most likely came 
from Hebrews who sailed with the Phoenicians or Egyptians or some of the 
other ancient mariners, some of which are mentioned in the ot as being 
trading partners with Israel during its brief period of empire / 
hegemony over nearby lands.  vincent j fulton  
 On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:19:20 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: Good job, vince, I am saving most of this 
information.   To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a 
question. Someone posted the notion that that there is some 
stone in Mexico with the ten commandments written on it and so 
on. Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without proof or is there 
some supporting evidence.   AND are you aware 
of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of the New World and 
the Bofm?   John  -- "Let 
your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an 
email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

http://www.irr.org/mit/smithson.html
synopsis of#8 Reports of findings of ancient egyptian, Hebrew etc.
have frequently appeared in news accounts, books
NONE of these claims has stood up to inspection
There are NO Inscriptions of any Old world form in the USexcepting Norse rune stones in Greenland

http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon127.html
For decades, the Mormon Church kept a large collection of the artifacts in its Salt Lake City museum, but never formally claimed them to be genuine.
"It is arguably the largest archaeological fraud ever in this country, and the longest running," Halsey said.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/nytimes1912papyrus.htm
Museum Walls Proclaim Fraud of Mormon Prophet
To make very clear just how great a hoax the Mormon prophet perpetrated upon his people, it was only necessary to gain a slight knowledge of the use the Egyptians made of their funeral papyri.
"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud," wrote Dr. A.H. Sayce of Oxford University. "The fac simile from the Book of Abraham No.2 is an ordinary hypocephalus, but the hieroglyphics upon it have been copied so ignorantly that hardly one of them is correct. I need scarcely say that Kolob, c., are unknown to the Egyptian language. Smith has turned the goddess Isis into a king and Osiris into Abraham."
"A Figaro of nonsense," was the way Dr. Arthur Mace, Assistant Curator of the Metropolitan Museum, who is now in Egypt, summed up the Mormon translations.

1. No 'Book of Mormon' cities have been located.
2. No 'Book of Mormon' names have been found in New World inscriptions.
3. No genuine inscriptions have been found in Hebrew.
4. No genuine inscriptions have been found in Egyptian or anything similar to Egyptian, which could correspond to Joseph Smith's "Reformed Egyptian."
5. No ancient copies of 'Book of Mormon' scriptures have been found.
6. No ancient inscriptions of any kind which indicate that the ancient inhabitants had Hebrew or Christian beliefs - all are pagan.
7. No mention of 'Book of Mormon' persons, nations, or places have been found.
8. No artifact of any kind which demonstrates the 'Book of Mormon' is true has been found.
9. Rather than finding supportive evidence, Mormon scholars have been forced to retreat from traditional interpretations of 'Book of Mormon' statements (For an example of this, see the latter portion of this pamphlet on the location of Cumorah).
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The ancient people were great seafarers, much better than currenthistory texts indicate. In America alone, people have found ancientCeltic ogum script, Viking writings, and various others which I can'tremember. My point is that, even if there is a monolith (megalith?) withthe ten commandments, that would indicate that there was probably someHebrew or Hebrews on that site in ancient times. That does notnecessarily mean they were of the ten lost tribes (which we know were notreally lost). In my sometimes humble opinion, any such an artifact mostlikely came from Hebrews who sailed with the Phoenicians or Egyptians orsome of the other ancient mariners, some of which are mentioned in the otas being trading partners with Israel during its brief period of empire /hegemony over nearby lands.vincent j fultonOn Wed, 10 Mar 2004
23:19:20 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Good job, vince, I am saving most of this information. To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question. Someone posted the notion thatthat there is some stone in Mexico with the ten commandments written onit and so on. Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without proof or isthere some supporting evidence. AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology ofthe New World and the Bofm? John --"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-11 Thread Chris Barr






\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ 



Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!!

Smithsonian, eh? If there's one thing that sticks out like a VERY 
sore thumb in all my years of investigative research, it is that the 
"recognized" authorities are not nearly so smart OR reputable as they are made 
out to be.

So, Kevin says, "There are NO 
Inscriptions of any Old world form in the USexcepting Norse rune stones in 
Greenland" and cites the Smithsonian as his "authority"?

Hmmm ...

A Smithsonian expedition in the 19th century discovered a rock with an 
inscription of unknown language or origin.

More than 30 years ago another authority discovered that this inscription 
was ancient Hebrew virtually unknown until very modern history. This 
script was unknown to the Smithsonian "experts" in the 19th century -- and 
apparently they are STILL not up to speed. The inscription said "for 
Judea".

Less than 20 years ago carbon dating indicated first century origin.

So where does the Smithsonian keep this find? Out of sight in a back 
room at the National Museum of Natural History in Washington D.C. 
Apparently it is so out of sight that even the Smithsonian doesn't know it is 
there ... or maybe they just don't want anyone knowing about it.

But if y'all want to deny TRUTH ... well 
... it won't be the first time ... SOP I would say ... and wasn't it Judas 
Iscariot that was involved Scripturally with SOP?



Ahava b' YahShua




















(Love in The 
SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,









ChrisBarr
a servant 
of YHVH

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: 03/11/2004 2:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins 
  found in Kentucky?
  
  http://www.irr.org/mit/smithson.html
  synopsis of#8 Reports of findings of ancient egyptian, Hebrew 
  etc.
  have frequently appeared in news accounts, books
  NONE of these claims has stood up to inspection
  There are NO Inscriptions of any Old world form in the USexcepting 
  Norse rune stones in Greenland
  
  http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon127.html
  For decades, the Mormon Church kept a large collection of the artifacts 
  in its Salt Lake City museum, but never formally claimed them to be 
  genuine.
  "It is arguably the largest archaeological fraud ever in this country, 
  and the longest running," Halsey said.
  
  http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/nytimes1912papyrus.htm
  Museum Walls Proclaim Fraud of Mormon Prophet
  To make very clear just how great a hoax the Mormon prophet perpetrated 
  upon his people, it was only necessary to gain a slight knowledge of the use 
  the Egyptians made of their funeral papyri.
  "It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud," 
  wrote Dr. A.H. Sayce of Oxford University. "The fac simile from the Book 
  of Abraham No.2 is an ordinary hypocephalus, but the hieroglyphics upon 
  it have been copied so ignorantly that hardly one of them is correct. I need 
  scarcely say that Kolob, c., are unknown to the Egyptian language. Smith 
  has turned the goddess Isis into a king and Osiris into Abraham."
  "A Figaro of nonsense," was the way 
  Dr. Arthur Mace, Assistant Curator of the Metropolitan Museum, who is now in 
  Egypt, summed up the Mormon translations.
  
  
  1. No 'Book of Mormon' cities have been located. 
  2. No 'Book of Mormon' names have been found in New World inscriptions. 
  3. No genuine inscriptions have been found in Hebrew. 
  4. No genuine inscriptions have been found in Egyptian or anything similar 
  to Egyptian, which could correspond to Joseph Smith's "Reformed Egyptian." 
  5. No ancient copies of 'Book of Mormon' scriptures have been found. 
  6. No ancient inscriptions of any kind which indicate that the ancient 
  inhabitants had Hebrew or Christian beliefs - all are pagan. 
  7. No mention of 'Book of Mormon' persons, nations, or places have been 
  found. 
  8. No artifact of any kind which demonstrates the 'Book of Mormon' is true 
  has been found. 
  9. Rather than finding supportive evidence, Mormon scholars have been 
  forced to retreat from traditional interpretations of 'Book of Mormon' 
  statements (For an example of this, see the latter portion of this pamphlet on 
  the location of Cumorah). 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The 
ancient people were great seafarers, much better than currenthistory 
texts indicate. In America alone, people have found ancientCeltic ogum 
script, Viking writings, and various others which I can'tremember. My 
point is that, even if there is a monolith (megalith?) withthe ten 
commandments, that would indicate that there was probably someHebrew or 
Hebrews on that site in ancient times. That does notnecessarily mean 
they were of the ten lost tribes (which we know were notreally lost). In 
my sometimes humble opinion, any such an artifac

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

It is a CONSPIRACY, that back room is filled with aliens also.

NO Kevin does not say. The statement from the Smithsonian clearly says there are NO old world inscriptions anywhere in the new world.
It is hidden in a back room?
Here take the virtual tour maybe you can find it
http://www.mnh.si.edu/museum/VirtualTour/
Don't forget your secret handshake is required to get in the back rooms.

Chris Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/ 


Greetings in the Matchless NameofYahShua!!

Smithsonian, eh? If there's one thing that sticks out like a VERY sore thumb in all my years of investigative research, it is that the "recognized" authorities are not nearly so smart OR reputable as they are made out to be.

So, Kevin says, "There are NO Inscriptions of any Old world form in the USexcepting Norse rune stones in Greenland" and cites the Smithsonian as his "authority"?

Hmmm ...

A Smithsonian expedition in the 19th century discovered a rock with an inscription of unknown language or origin.

More than 30 years ago another authority discovered that this inscription was ancient Hebrew virtually unknown until very modern history. This script was unknown to the Smithsonian "experts" in the 19th century -- and apparently they are STILL not up to speed. The inscription said "for Judea".

Less than 20 years ago carbon dating indicated first century origin.

So where does the Smithsonian keep this find? Out of sight in a back room at the National Museum of Natural History in Washington D.C. Apparently it is so out of sight that even the Smithsonian doesn't know it is there ... or maybe they just don't want anyone knowing about it.

But if y'all want to deny TRUTH ... well ... it won't be the first time ... SOP I would say ... and wasn't it Judas Iscariot that was involved Scripturally with SOP?



Ahava b' YahShua




















(Love in The SAVIOUR)

Baruch YHVH,









ChrisBarr
a servant of YHVH

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 03/11/2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

http://www.irr.org/mit/smithson.html
synopsis of#8 Reports of findings of ancient egyptian, Hebrew etc.
have frequently appeared in news accounts, books
NONE of these claims has stood up to inspection
There are NO Inscriptions of any Old world form in the USexcepting Norse rune stones in Greenland

http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon127.html
For decades, the Mormon Church kept a large collection of the artifacts in its Salt Lake City museum, but never formally claimed them to be genuine.
"It is arguably the largest archaeological fraud ever in this country, and the longest running," Halsey said.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/nytimes1912papyrus.htm
Museum Walls Proclaim Fraud of Mormon Prophet
To make very clear just how great a hoax the Mormon prophet perpetrated upon his people, it was only necessary to gain a slight knowledge of the use the Egyptians made of their funeral papyri.
"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud," wrote Dr. A.H. Sayce of Oxford University. "The fac simile from the Book of Abraham No.2 is an ordinary hypocephalus, but the hieroglyphics upon it have been copied so ignorantly that hardly one of them is correct. I need scarcely say that Kolob, c., are unknown to the Egyptian language. Smith has turned the goddess Isis into a king and Osiris into Abraham."
"A Figaro of nonsense," was the way Dr. Arthur Mace, Assistant Curator of the Metropolitan Museum, who is now in Egypt, summed up the Mormon translations.


1. No 'Book of Mormon' cities have been located. 
2. No 'Book of Mormon' names have been found in New World inscriptions. 
3. No genuine inscriptions have been found in Hebrew. 
4. No genuine inscriptions have been found in Egyptian or anything similar to Egyptian, which could correspond to Joseph Smith's "Reformed Egyptian." 
5. No ancient copies of 'Book of Mormon' scriptures have been found. 
6. No ancient inscriptions of any kind which indicate that the ancient inhabitants had Hebrew or Christian beliefs - all are pagan. 
7. No mention of 'Book of Mormon' persons, nations, or places have been found. 
8. No artifact of any kind which demonstrates the 'Book of Mormon' is true has been found. 
9. Rather than finding supportive evidence, Mormon scholars have been forced to retreat from traditional interpretations of 'Book of Mormon' statements (For an example of this, see the latter portion of this pamphlet on the location of Cumorah). 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The ancient people were great seafarers, much better than currenthistory texts indicate. In America alone, people have found ancientCeltic ogum script, Viking writings, and various others which I can'tremember. My point is that, even if there is a monolith (megalith?) withthe ten commandments, that would indicate t

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-11 Thread Charles Perry Locke




From: Chris Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED]

\o/ !HALALUYah! \o/
Greetings in the Matchless Name of YahShua !!
So where does the Smithsonian keep this find?  Out of sight in a back room 
at the National Museum of Natural History in Washington D.C.  Apparently it 
is so out of sight that even the Smithsonian doesn't know it is there ... 
or maybe they just don't want anyone knowing about it.
Maybe it went the way of the golden plates. i.e., never existed in the 
first place!

_
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar  includes FREE pop-up blocking! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

I don't care what you call the rock.
The verse says the gates of hell will not prevail against the church
Thye other verse teaches the church will exist througout ALL AGES

Jesus must be mistaken because you know there was a TOTAL Apostacy
shortly after the last apostle died there were no more christians on earth.
WDJKa (What does Jesus know anyhow)

Seems theDOGMA tradition of men,here is "The Great Apostacy"
have you the book?
If there are no christians there is no church right?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

True Christianity wasNEVER lost

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;DAVEH: IMHO..that rock was revelation, Kevin. So, to me it makes sense that after a general apostasy (falling away), it would be a restitution of all things via revelation to the Lord's servants, the prophets.

and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
EPH 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
God's word was NEVER lostDAVEH: I don't think we were referring to God's word being lost, but rather to people being lostsearching to and fro for the truth. As Isaiah recorded in 29:13.Wherefore the Lord said, For as much as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men.Rather than hear the real message of the Lord's word, they become lost due to the dogma and traditions (such as the T-Doctrine belief in a literal lake of fire and brimstone) derived by men centuries ago. At least that's how I see it. To suggest that God's word was never lost, I think that might be short sighted thinking. Seems to me there are a lot of gaps in or knowledge of what happened in Biblical times, and what God may have revealed. Is that not why there are so many
theological questions and controversies over doctrines? Furthermore, there are books written (viz, THE LOST BOOKS OF THE BIBLE) regarding material that has since been discovered.

You may have lost it or may never have found it.
God's word is ETERNAL ALIVE

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But then again you do not trust His wordDAVEH: I think I trust it far more than I trust those who purport the Bible is all God has revealed, Kevin.

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

And Mormons are proof of that falling away!

There was NO TOTAL APOSTACY that needed a RESTORATIONDAVEH: I would have thought the Protestants would be happy to suggest the RCC or the Dark Ages represented a time of apostasy and falling away. Couldn't Protestants then claim the Reformation movement to be a part of the prophecy of a restitution of all things as spoken by the Bible? If the Protestants don't lay claim to such a restoration, then when do they think it will happen, Kevin?

thru a a money digging OCCULTIST, who could not stay away from other mens wives.--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

What does the verse say dave? Try reading it real slow.

what does the word UNTILmean?
whom (Jesus) heaven must recieve UNTIL the times of restitution of all things.

Jesus is in heaven UNTIL

Are you claiming JOe restored ALL things?
Then where are the "LOST" books of the Bible?
Instead of fixing the supposed problem, JoE made it worse. He translated the books of the bible and could only find 65 of them, in the JST
JoE LOST ONE MORE!
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

When Jesus comes back in the future
Act 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.DAVEH: I've understood this to be that Jesus won't return (for the second time) prior that restitution. IOW, the restitution must come first. Do you agree? And, may I assume (it seems such from your above comment) you do not believe the restitution has yet taken place?

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

And Mormons are proof of that falling away!

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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

So many questions and controversies over doctrine?
That is why we need JoE?

Seems to me with over 200 offshoots of the Branches of the RESTORATION, something has gone seriously wrong!Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

True Christianity wasNEVER lost

You may have lost it or may never have found it.
God's word is ETERNAL ALIVE

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But then again you do not trust His wordDAVEH: I think I trust it far more than I trust those who purport the Bible is all God has revealed, Kevin.

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

And Mormons are proof of that falling away!

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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-10 Thread elextech


On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:08:49 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Jesus must be mistaken because you know there was a TOTAL Apostacy
shortly after the last apostle died there were no more christians on
earth.

vince:

 God always preserves a remnant who are His people: 1 Kings 19:18;
Romans 11:5; Psalm 4:3.

vincent j fulton
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to 
send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Amen Amen Amen

Thanks for the scriptures.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:08:49 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>writes: Jesus must be mistaken because you know there was a TOTAL Apostacyshortly after the last apostle died there were no more christians onearth.vince:God always preserves a remnant who are His people: 1 Kings 19:18;Romans 11:5; Psalm 4:3.vincent j fulton--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-10 Thread Blaine Borrowman




Blaine: Kevin is right about the apostacies, 
wrong about the credibility of the witnessing. The 12 men never denied 
their testimonies, even after they had apostasized. Most, including two of 
the three witnesses who saw the angel, repented, and rejoined the LDS Church 
after it had moved to Utah. The third one, the only one not to rejoin, 
continued to accept interviews up to his very deathbed, and maintained 
steadfastly he had seen and heard all that he signed his name to. He often 
retold the story, never deviating from the original. As usual, Kevin 
doesn't give the full story or even relevant facts. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin 
  Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:19 
AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins 
  found in Kentucky?
  
  These witnesses had no conviction.
  The things they "saw" made NO DIFFERENCE in their lives 
  ALL of the 3 Witnesses APOSTACIZED
  (therefore they were witnesses against the power of the BoM)
  4 of the eight Apostacied a fifth dying before he had a 
  chanceto, with the last 3 being SMITHS!
  More of a witness against the BoM!
  The church was founded in 1830 for 5 years they had NO APOSTLES!
  How could this be? 
  In 1835 The Elders laid hands on the 12 to appoint them as 
Apostles.
  How does one that is a Melch Priest commision an Apostle?
  Waiting for your answer. (Put this question with all the others you are 
  unable to answer)
  Your first 12 were not duly appointed which breaks your line of Priests, 
   Prophets too!
  6 of the first 12 Apostacized!
  What is with the bad track record?
  In addition the DC call some of these men "wicked", "to mean 
  to mention" and says some of them "could not tell a true from a false 
  revelation"
  What a great witness you have there Blaine
  
  Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

Blaine: The problem is, you didn't give 
it a fair trial. In any court in America (most courts, except maybe in 
Southern states whereall thoseBaptists hang out--lol), the 
testimony of two witnesses is enough to prove innocence--or guilt. The 
BoM has three witnesses who saw the 
angel, the gold plates, the sword of Laban, the interpreters (Urim and 
thummim), and the compass used by Lehi and his group to guide them to the 
Promised Land, called the Liahona--plus eight more 
witnesses who saw the gold plates. counting 
Joseph Smith himself, that makes a total of 12 
witnesses. No court--not even in Alabama--could deny this 
record. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:08 
      PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew 
  Coins found in Kentucky?
  
  How about if we just put the Book of 
  Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?
  Blaine
  It is on trialand is FOUND 
  WANTING!Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  

How about if we just put the Book of Mormon 
on trial, Kevin? OK?
Blaine

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 
  1:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old 
  hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?
  
  Have you TRIED that Spirit Baline?
  The scripture says TRY THEM!
  PUT THEM ON TRIAL
  
  That is the simple fact. I do not have to prove anything. You 
  choose to ignore the scriptures to your own Demise!
  The reason being is you do not want to give up your faith. You 
  know that JOe  the Prophets  the Church will not stand 
  simple scrutiny no less a Trial!
  Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  



  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kevin Deegan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, March 04, 
      2004 10:27 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old 
  hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?
  
  Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  



Blaine: The story about JS 
seeing the words cross the stone inside the hat was never 
substantiated. At best, I think he may have used the hat 
for effect, probably as a joke, and the rock inside was not a 
crystal ball--I have a photo of it, and it is opaque, with 
several holes in it. When Oliver Cowdery tried to 
translate, nothing happened. That was because he had not 
learned to read the writing by himself.  After

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 4:23:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Blaine: Kevin is right about the apostacies, wrong about the credibility of the witnessing. The 12 men never denied their testimonies, even after they had apostasized. Most, including two of the three witnesses who saw the angel, repented, and rejoined the LDS Church after it had moved to Utah. The third one, the only one not to rejoin, continued to accept interviews up to his very deathbed, and maintained steadfastly he had seen and heard all that he signed his name to. He often retold the story, never deviating from the original. As usual, Kevin doesn't give the full story or even relevant facts. 


Here's a history lesson. Oliver Cowdry was a teacher and, for a time, a participant in the Campbell/Stone movement (early 1800's).. Since I do not believe that Mormon "truth" is the product of revelation, perhaps some of it came from J Smith's association with others such as Cowdry. Cowdry would have believed in water baptism, elders, evangelism, communion, to name a few of the similarities. It is a hypothesis but is worth studying if you are a history buff. 


John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?




You seem to know a quite a bit about the 
Restoration denomination, John. Where did you pick this up?

Bill
Here's a history lesson. 
  Oliver Cowdry was a teacher and, for a time, a participant 
  in the Campbell/Stone movement (early 1800's).. Since I do not 
  believe that Mormon "truth" is the product of revelation, perhaps some 
  of it came from J Smith's association with others such as Cowdry. 
  Cowdry would have believed in water baptism, 
  elders, evangelism, communion, to name a few of the 
  similarities. It is a hypothesis but is worth studying if you are 
  a history buff.  John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:17:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


You seem to know a quite a bit about the Restoration denomination, John. Where did you pick this up?
 
Bill


I ministered in that fellowship for a number of years. I now proudly serve my Lord as a tentmaker, vocation and avocation combined rather a professional Christian ministry. 


John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-10 Thread Blaine Borrowman

- Original Message -
From:
Kevin
Deegan
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:19
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins
found in Kentucky?

I would welcome that event.
But in the meantimeI will revel in all the
conversions right outside the SLC Temple gates. See you in April
Blaine.

Blaine: Hpw many is "all the
conversions, Kevin? Exactly how many.Terry Clifton
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Blaine
Borrowman wrote:

Blaine You are probably right about one
thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had not heard
inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition,and
the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front
yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to your
skin.(:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which
I would represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol'
boysuse to cover their sinful depradations against those whose
come-uppance they most dreadfully fear.
FEAR is the
opposite of FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon
which the devil and his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon
missionaries are not afraid to speak the truth in the South or anywhere
else, and the result is that the church grows despite the devil and his
hoststrying to intimidateagainst it. There are now
Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this
concern the baptists?Presently, there are temples
in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas;
North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky: Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta;
Missouri: St. Louis; Texas: Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San
Antonio; Virginia: Washington
DC

Hmmm., maybe the
Baptists should fear!!! But on the other hand, they no longer
have to travel to Salt Lake City to try to convert the Mormons--they can
now do it in their own backyards!! With their neighbors!!
LOL
===
C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the
truth, he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon
temples spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no
surprise. We are told that in the last days, there will be a great
falling away. One day soon, the Father is going to turn to the Son,
and say,"Go get 'em". When that happens, it will be too late to
change, so I suggest that as soon as you get those DNA results back, you
put all this Mormon stuff behind you and be born again. If you did,
Kevin would have to embrace you as a brother. You could become a
wealthy man just selling tickets to that event.Think
about it.Terry

What you

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for faster.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 5:55:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


You are probably right about one thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had not heard inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition, and the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to your skin. (:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which I would represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol' boys use to cover their sinful depradations against those whose come-uppance they most dreadfully fear. 

How many blacks are in the Mormon church and when were they allowed to be a part of the fellowship? 

Not all Baptist are as described above. Actully most are not. But if you live in a glass house, you really shouldn't throw stones. The Mormon church is the only religion in America that excluded blacks as a matter of denominational structure. The Baptist church in the North had black brethren at the same time the hypocrites in the South did not. But blacks were excluded from the Mormon church (at least as leaders) as a matter of church dogma.

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

More likely these associations:
Sidney Rigdon was excommunicated as a Baptist minister on October 11, 1823, for teaching false doctrine, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He joined Alexander Campbell and Walter Scott to form the emerging Disciples of Christ.He was a Campbellite preacher until he "converted" to Mormonism in 1830. Rigdon was excommunicated in September 1844 he then organized a Church of Christ in Pa. In 1864 he organized a "Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion"

Orson Hyde was also a Campbellite before "converting" to Mormonism

Parley Pratt convertedto the "Reformed Baptist Society" (Campbellite) through the preaching of Sidney Rigdon and "converted" to mormonism in 1830

"This matter of 'Priesthood,' since the days of Sydney Rigdon, has been the great hobby and stumbling-block of the Latter Day Saints. Priesthood means authority; and authority is the word we should use. I do not think the word priesthood is mentioned in the New Covenant of the Book of Mormon. Authority is the word we used for the first two years in the church--until Sydney Rigdon's days in Ohio. This matter of the two orders of priesthood in the Church of Christ, and lineal priesthood of the old law being in the church, all originated in the mind of Sydney Rigdon. He explained these things to Brother Joseph in his way, out of the old Scriptures, and got Joseph to inquire, etc. He would inquire, and as mouthpiece speak out the revelations just as they had it fixed up in their heartsaccording to the desires of the heart, the inspiration comes, but it may be the spirit of man that gives it This is the way the High Priests and the
'priesthood' as you have it, was introduced into the Church of Christ almost two years after its beginning--and after we had baptized and confirmed about two thousand souls into the church." (An Address To All Believers In Christ, by David Whitmer p. 64) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 3/10/2004 4:23:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Blaine: Kevin is right about the apostacies, wrong about the credibility of the witnessing. The 12 men never denied their testimonies, even after they had apostasized. Most, including two of the three witnesses who saw the angel, repented, and rejoined the LDS Church after it had moved to Utah. The third one, the only one not to rejoin, continued to accept interviews up to his very deathbed, and maintained steadfastly he had seen and heard all that he signed his name to. He often retold the story, never deviating from the original. As usual, Kevin doesn't give the full story or even relevant facts. Here's a history lesson. Oliver Cowdry was a teacher and, for a time, a participant in the Campbell/Stone movement (early 1800's).. Since I do not believe that Mormon
"truth" is the product of revelation, perhaps some of it came from J Smith's association with others such as Cowdry. Cowdry would have believed in water baptism, elders, evangelism, communion, to name a few of the similarities. It is a hypothesis but is worth studying if you are a history buff. John
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Well here we go the LDS church is true because they are growing so fast argument.
If the rate of growth is the determining factor, get out your turbin and become a muslim thay are much bigger than the LDS church.Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

I would welcome that event.
But in the meantimeI will revel in all the conversions right outside the SLC Temple gates. See you in April Blaine.

Blaine: Hpw many is "all the conversions, Kevin? Exactly how many.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Blaine Borrowman wrote:

Blaine You are probably right about one thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had not heard inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition,and the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to your skin.(:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which I would represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol' boysuse to cover their sinful depradations against those whose come-uppance they most dreadfully fear. 
 FEAR is the opposite of FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon which the devil and his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon missionaries are not afraid to speak the truth in the South or anywhere else, and the result is that the church grows despite the devil and his hoststrying to intimidateagainst it. There are now Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this concern the baptists?Presently, there are temples in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas; North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky: Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta; Missouri: St. Louis; Texas: Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio; Virginia: Washington DC

Hmmm., maybe the Baptists should fear!!! But on the other hand, they no longer have to travel to Salt Lake City to try to convert the Mormons--they can now do it in their own backyards!! With their neighbors!! LOL
===
C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the truth, he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon temples spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no surprise. We are told that in the last days, there will be a great falling away. One day soon, the Father is going to turn to the Son, and say,"Go get 'em". When that happens, it will be too late to change, so I suggest that as soon as you get those DNA results back, you put all this Mormon stuff behind you and be born again. If you did, Kevin would have to embrace you as a brother. You could become a wealthy man just selling tickets to that event.Think about it.Terry

What you 

Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

I'm sorry Blaine you want more on the witnesses?

"...neither did I ever hear of such a thing as an angel ordaining them until I got into Ohio about the year 1834--or later. Oliver stated to me in Joseph's presence that they had baptized each other--seeking by that to fulfill the command. And after our arrival at fathers sometime in June 1829, Joseph ordained Oliver to be an Elder, and Oliver ordained Joseph to be an Elder in the Church of Christ." David Whitmer Interviews, page 154. 

Whitmer said "If you believe my testimony to the Book of Mormon; if you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by his own voice from the heavens, and told me to 'separate myself from among the Latter-day Saints...'" Address to all believers in Christ, p27, 1887 Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Blaine: Kevin is right about the apostacies, wrong about the credibility of the witnessing. The 12 men never denied their testimonies, even after they had apostasized. Most, including two of the three witnesses who saw the angel, repented, and rejoined the LDS Church after it had moved to Utah. The third one, the only one not to rejoin, continued to accept interviews up to his very deathbed, and maintained steadfastly he had seen and heard all that he signed his name to. He often retold the story, never deviating from the original. As usual, Kevin doesn't give the full story or even relevant facts. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

These witnesses had no conviction.
The things they "saw" made NO DIFFERENCE in their lives 
ALL of the 3 Witnesses APOSTACIZED
(therefore they were witnesses against the power of the BoM)
4 of the eight Apostacied a fifth dying before he had a chanceto, with the last 3 being SMITHS!
More of a witness against the BoM!
The church was founded in 1830 for 5 years they had NO APOSTLES!
How could this be? 
In 1835 The Elders laid hands on the 12 to appoint them as Apostles.
How does one that is a Melch Priest commision an Apostle?
Waiting for your answer. (Put this question with all the others you are unable to answer)
Your first 12 were not duly appointed which breaks your line of Priests,  Prophets too!
6 of the first 12 Apostacized!
What is with the bad track record?
In addition the DC call some of these men "wicked", "to mean to mention" and says some of them "could not tell a true from a false revelation"
What a great witness you have there Blaine

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Blaine: The problem is, you didn't give it a fair trial. In any court in America (most courts, except maybe in Southern states whereall thoseBaptists hang out--lol), the testimony of two witnesses is enough to prove innocence--or guilt. The BoM has three witnesses who saw the angel, the gold plates, the sword of Laban, the interpreters (Urim and thummim), and the compass used by Lehi and his group to guide them to the Promised Land, called the Liahona--plus eight more witnesses who saw the gold plates. counting Joseph Smith himself, that makes a total of 12 witnesses. No court--not even in Alabama--could deny this record. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

How about if we just put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?
Blaine
It is on trialand is FOUND WANTING!Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


How about if we just put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?
Blaine

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Have you TRIED that Spirit Baline?
The scripture says TRY THEM!
PUT THEM ON TRIAL

That is the simple fact. I do not have to prove anything. You choose to ignore the scriptures to your own Demise!
The reason being is you do not want to give up your faith. You know that JOe  the Prophets  the Church will not stand simple scrutiny no less a Trial!
Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 




Blaine: The story about JS seeing the words cross the stone inside the hat was never substantiated. At best, I think he may have used the hat for effect, probably as a joke, and the rock inside was not a crystal ball--I have a photo of it, and it is opaque, with several holes in it. When Oliver Cowdery tried to translate, nothing happened. That was because he had not learned to read the writing by himself.  After JS learned the language of the Nep

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


This is the way the High Priests and the 'priesthood' as you have it, was introduced into the Church of Christ almost two years after its beginning--and after we had baptized and confirmed about two thousand souls into the church." 

There is no dual priesthood in the Church of Christ. Keep in mind that I am no longer associated with this denomination -- but I know it and it's teachings inside out. 

John



John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Campbellite 

This designation existed only in the minds of those Prebyterian and Baptist of the day (1800's). There is no such thing as a "Campbellite."

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


More likely these associations:


The information that follows your words above is or good be very use to my notion that Restoration teaching influenced Mormonism. Thanks.

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?




I grew up hearing that, too. I guess that makes us 
Stoneys.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:05 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins 
  found in Kentucky?
  In a 
  message dated 3/10/2004 6:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
  
  Campbellite This designation existed 
  only in the minds of those Prebyterian and Baptist of the day (1800's). 
  There is no such thing as a "Campbellite." John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 8:09:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I grew up hearing that, too. I guess that makes us Stoneys.


Brother meet they brother !!!

Pardon me for being a little slow, but, the several emails you posted -- I am assuming they establish the full written context of your part in the Trinity discussion?

If so, I will save and refer to them in the future. 


Thanks 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Good job, vince, I am saving most of this information. 

To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question. Someone posted the notion that that there is some stone in Mexico with the ten commandments written on it and so on. Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without proof or is there some supporting evidence. 

AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of the New World and the Bofm? 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?




Yes, they do; however, I do not think they came 
through in the same order of correspondence as I sent them, so you might want to 
check the original times to get them in context. Thanks, brother. Sorry I tensed 
up on you. Sometimes this is all too exacerbating.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:13 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins 
  found in Kentucky?
  In a 
  message dated 3/10/2004 8:09:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
  I grew up hearing that, too. I guess that makes us Stoneys. 
  Brother meet they brother !!! Pardon me for 
  being a little slow, but, the several emails you posted -- I 
  am assuming they establish the full written context of your part in the 
  Trinity discussion? If so, I will save and refer to them in the 
  future.  Thanks John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 8:22:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Sorry I tensed up on you. Sometimes this is all too exacerbating.

No problem. I am a pretty aggressive guy myself -- I get to say "I'm sorry" much more often than I get to say "guess that makes right (again)" which I say to my wife as often as possible ("No dear, I am not right; I am right again." We have a great marriage. 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Whitmer was a "witness" for the BoM. In this pamphlet, he was talkinjg about the LDS church, when it was organized in Fayette NY it was first called the "Church of Christ" The name was changed to "Church of the Latter Day Saints" and finally to todays "Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints"
He specifically is talking about the LOWer  High priesthoods of the LDS "Church of Christ" that they were introduced into the Church 2 years after the fact.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 3/10/2004 6:28:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
This is the way the High Priests and the 'priesthood' as you have it, was introduced into the Church of Christ almost two years after its beginning--and after we had baptized and confirmed about two thousand souls into the church." There is no dual priesthood in the Church of Christ. Keep in mind that I am no longer associated with this denomination -- but I know it and it's teachings inside out.  John John 
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

http://www.irr.org/mit/smithson.html

http://www.probe.org/docs/book-mormon.html

The Smithsonian Institute in a letter to the Mormon Church states, "The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian Archaeologists see no connection between the archaeology of the New World and the subject matter of the Book."
The National Geographic Society writes, "With regard to the cities mentioned in the Book of Mormon, neither representatives of the National Geographic Society nor archaeologists connected with any other institution of equal prestige have ever used the Book of Mormon in locating historic ruins in Middle America or elsewhere."
Even Mormon archaeologists admit there is no conclusive evidence. Dr. Hugh Nibley, a Mormon apologist, states in his book Since Cumorah that no real archaeological proof for the Nephite civilization exists. He writes regarding the Nephites, "All that we have to go on to date is a written history . . . there is nothing whatever that an anthropologist or archaeologist as such can say about the Book of Mormon."
Dee Green, professor of anthropology at Weber State University and a respected Mormon scholar states, "The first myth we must eliminate is that Book of Mormon archaeology exists . . . no Book of Mormon location is known with reference to modern topography. Biblical archaeology can be studied because we do know where Jerusalem and Jericho were and are, but we do not know where Zarahemla and Bountiful (nor any other location for that matter) were or are. It would seem that a concentration on geography should be the first order of business, but . . . years of such an approach has left us empty-handed."[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good job, vince, I am saving most of this information. To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question. Someone posted the notion that that there is some stone in Mexico with the ten commandments written on it and so on. Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without proof or is there some supporting evidence. AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of the New World and the Bofm? John
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

WARNING 

I was saving some infor from B Taylor and my computer got hit with a virus or somekind of spywear. I have Norton -- just put it into my machine last week. It killed it -- but beware. I am not saying it was Bill's email -- could be anyone's. 

It is a distressing thought but if you spend more than 4 hours on line per week, you probably have porno spywear in your machine. These porners are pretty slick. I have always believed that when my machine coughs or studders or suddenly changes size of font, it was indicating that something came into my machine at that moment. Now I know it is true. I have been attacked several times -- each with these symptoms and Norton lets me know . 


Beware. 

Your Friend

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?




I have Norton too, John, and my provider checks 
every transactionthrough McAfee. I am sorry you got hit. I do not think it 
was me. Do you know how I might check to make sure?

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:39 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins 
  found in Kentucky?
  WARNING 
   I was saving some infor from B Taylor and my computer got hit 
  with a virus or somekind of spywear. I have Norton -- 
  just put it into my machine last week. It killed it -- 
  but beware. I am not saying it was Bill's email -- 
  could be anyone's.  It is a distressing thought but 
  if you spend more than 4 hours on line per week, you probably have porno 
  spywear in your machine. These porners are pretty slick. 
  I have always believed that when my machine coughs or studders or 
  suddenly changes size of font, it was indicating that something came into my 
  machine at that moment. Now I know it is true. I have 
  been attacked several times -- each with these symptoms and Norton lets 
  me know .  Beware.  Your Friend 
  John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?




Kevin: more information for my "save" file. Thanks.


To the Mormons buds:
In regard to the American Indians - are they Jews? 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 8:47:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I have Norton too, John, and my provider checks every transaction through McAfee. I am sorry you got hit. I do not think it was me. Do you know how I might check to make sure?

Bill

I am really ignorant when it comes to computers. I've been fighting the porn thing for about a year. I have found icons (before Norton) in the My Computer files and the programing files. Also, click on the icon for My Computer. When it opens that menue page, at the top there is a tool bar which includes "favorites" Since I have a rather extensive "favorites" page as I open to AOL, I wondered what this "favorite" was. It has three or four files in it (media and whatever). But there were maybe 15 porn items there as well. I would delete and they would come back the next time I booted up. Anyway, they were hidding in there. Norton got rid of them. Also, if you go to MicrosoftWord, open like you are going to write a new doc, click on the "world" icon (something about hyperlink) and then click on browsed pages -- in my computer I have 6 URL addresses that are porn and will not go away. I even spent an entire afternoon with Dell and could get rid of them. In fact, the funny thing is that the Dell assistent went to the same page and he had three pron addresses. He deleted them but they came back and would nbot let him delete after that. I cannot delete mine either. They have been in my machine for about two years. I am told that Norton makes them void.

Good luck John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-10 Thread Charles Perry Locke



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Campbellite
This designation existed only in the minds of those  Prebyterian and 
Baptist
of the day (1800's).  There is no such thing as a Campbellite.

John
How about those people that make the soup? Sorry, I could not resist.

_
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar  get it now! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

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to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-10 Thread Dave







Kevin Deegan wrote:

  http://www.irr.org/mit/smithson.html
  
  http://www.probe.org/docs/book-mormon.html
  
  The Smithsonian Institute in a letter to the Mormon Church
  

DAVEH: FTR...They were not responding to a letter from the Mormon
Church. They were replying to a request for information from the
Institute for Religious Research, an organization not associated with
the LDS folks, except in a detractive sense.

  
   states, "The Smithsonian Institution has never used the Book
of Mormon in any way as a scientific guide. Smithsonian
Archaeologists see no connection between the archaeology of the
New World and the subject matter of the Book."
  The National Geographic Society writes, "With regard to the cities
mentioned in the Book of Mormon, neither representatives of the
National Geographic Society nor archaeologists connected with any other
institution of equal prestige have ever used the Book of
Mormon in locating historic ruins in Middle America or elsewhere."
  Even Mormon archaeologists admit there is no conclusive evidence.
Dr. Hugh Nibley, a Mormon apologist, states in his book Since
Cumorah that no real archaeological proof for the
Nephite civilization exists. He writes regarding the Nephites, "All
that we have to go on to date is a written history . . . there
is nothing whatever that an anthropologist or archaeologist as
such can say about the Book of Mormon."
  
  Dee Green, professor of anthropology at Weber State University
and a respected Mormon scholar states, "The first myth we must
eliminate is that Book of Mormon archaeology exists .
. . no Book of Mormon location is known with reference to
modern topography. Biblical archaeology can be studied because we do
know where Jerusalem and Jericho were and are, but we do not know where
Zarahemla and Bountiful (nor any other location for that matter) were
or are. It would seem that a concentration on geography should be the
first order of business, but . . . years of such an approach has left
us empty-handed."
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Good job, vince, I
am saving most of this information.  

To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question. Someone posted the notion
that that there is some stone in Mexico with the ten commandments
written on it and so on. Is that just a fantasy to be accpted without
proof or is there some supporting evidence.  

AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of
the New World and the Bofm?  

John


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

In a message dated 3/10/2004 9:22:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


How about those people that make the soup? Sorry, I could not resist.



I love this group. There are so many really clever comments and just good stuff. 

The soup thing -- funny but it also reminded me that I need to go and eat some dinner. 

John

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-10 Thread Dave







[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good job, vince, I
am saving most of this information. 
  
  
To our Mormon buds, I re-ask a question.
DAVEH: Sorry John..I must have missed it the first time. As you
may know, there has been an extraordinary amount of TT traffic
lately.
 Someone posted
the notion that that there is some stone in Mexico with the ten
commandments written on it and so on. Is that just a fantasy to be
accpted without proof or is there some supporting evidence.
DAVEH: I don't know anything about it. TT is the first time I've
heard about it at all, so I can't offer an opinion. As interesting
though it might be if true, I would have to be very skeptical, as it
certainly sounds like a hoax.
 
AND are you aware of the Smithsonian conclusion about the archeology of
the New World and the Bofm? 
  
DAVEH: LOL.Sure. I suspect they have received a ton of mail
regarding the BofM over the years.

John

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Whether or not Southern Baptists are racists in general I have no idea. But, you know what they say aboutCults that live in glass houses.

I do know that the LDS General Authorities have a history of racism
There still is NO Black man in the LDS presidency or Apostles.

2 Nephi 30:6 in the Book of Mormon taught that dark-skinned Lamanites (Indians) would eventually experience a change in the color of their skin should they embrace the Book of Mormon. "...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people."
IN 1981 the church had to FIX the "most correct book on earth" by changing white to pure. Else it would be Get Right - Get White!

2 Nephi 5:21 "And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, and they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

3 Nephi 2:15 "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites."

The SEER Profit Spencer Kimball said the Indians"are fast becoming a white and delightsome people."
"The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation"
Refering toan Indian girl "several shades lighter than her parents..."
"These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated."(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3).

APOSTATES "become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young Journal of Discourse 5:332).

...Cain conversed with his God every day, and knew all about the plan of creating this earth, for his father told him. But, for the want of humility, and through jealousy, and an anxiety to possess the kingdom, and to have the whole of it under his own control and not allow any body else the right to say one word, what did he do? He killed his brother. The Lord put a mark on him; and there are some of his children in this room. When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity. ...he is the last to share the joys of the kingdom of God... (Brigham Young, Dec. 12, 1854, Journal of Discourses, 2:142-143)

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. ...How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive
blessings in like proportion. (Brigham Young, Oct. 9, 1859, Journal of Discourses, 7:290-291)

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. (Brigham Young, March 8, 1863, Journal of Discourses, 10:110)

...after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth... (John Taylor, Aug.28, 1881, Journal of Discourses, 22:304)

SUNDAY SCHOOL LESSON
We will first inquire into the results of the approbation or displeasure of God upon a people, starting with the belief that a black skin is a mark of the curse of Heaven placed upon some portions of mankind. Some, however, will argue that a black skin is not a curse, nor a white skin a blessing. In fact, some have been so foolish as to believe and say that a black skin is a blessing, and that the negro is the finest type of a perfect

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

And Mormons are proof of that falling away!

There was NO TOTAL APOSTACY that needed a RESTORATION thru a a money digging OCCULTIST, who could not stay away from other mens wives.Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Terry Clifton wrote: C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the truth,  he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon temples  spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no surprise.  We are told that in the last days, there will be a great falling away.DAVEH: Your comment interests me, Terry. Where does it say that? Terry-- ~~~Dave Hansen[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.langlitz.com~~~If you wish to receivethings I find interesting,I maintain Five email lists...JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-09 Thread Dave







Kevin Deegan wrote:

  And Mormons are proof of that falling away!
  
  There was NO TOTAL APOSTACY that needed a RESTORATION

DAVEH: I would have thought the Protestants would be happy to suggest
the RCC or the Dark Ages represented a time of apostasy and falling
away. Couldn't Protestants then claim the Reformation movement to be a
part of the prophecy of a restitution of all things as spoken by the
Bible? If the Protestants don't lay claim to such a restoration, then
when do they think it will happen, Kevin?

   thru a a money digging OCCULTIST, who could not stay away from
other mens wives.
  
  Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Terry Clifton wrote:

 C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the
truth, 
 he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon
temples 
 spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no
surprise. 
 We are told that in the last days, there will be a great
falling away.

DAVEH: Your comment interests me, Terry. Where does it say that?

 Terry
  


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~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

True Christianity wasNEVER lost

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
EPH 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
God's word was NEVER lost
You may have lost it or may never have found it.
God's word is ETERNAL ALIVE

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But then again you do not trust His wordDave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

And Mormons are proof of that falling away!

thru a a money digging OCCULTIST, who could not stay away from other mens wives.Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Terry Clifton wrote: C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the truth, he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon temples spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no surprise. We are told that in the last days, there will be a great falling away.DAVEH: Your comment interests me, Terry. Where does it say that? Terry--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
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things I find interesting,
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

And Mormons are proof of that falling away!

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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-09 Thread Dave







Kevin Deegan wrote:

  When Jesus comes back in the future
  Act 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ,
which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until
the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken
by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
  

DAVEH: I've understood this to be that Jesus won't return (for the
second time) prior that restitution. IOW, the restitution
must come first. Do you agree?

 And, may I assume (it seems such from your above comment) you do
not believe the restitution has yet taken place?

  
  
  Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  And Mormons are proof of that falling away!
  
  There was NO TOTAL APOSTACY that needed a RESTORATION

DAVEH: I would have thought the Protestants would be happy to suggest
the RCC or the Dark Ages represented a time of apostasy and falling
away. Couldn't Protestants then claim the Reformation movement to be a
part of the prophecy of a restitution of all things as spoken by the
Bible? If the Protestants don't lay claim to such a restoration, then
when do they think it will happen, Kevin?

  thru a a money digging OCCULTIST, who could not stay away
from other mens wives.
  
  

  
  
  

-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-09 Thread Dave







Kevin Deegan wrote:

  True Christianity wasNEVER lost
  
  Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon
this rock I will build my church;
  

DAVEH: IMHO..that rock was revelation, Kevin.  So, to me
it makes sense that after a general apostasy (falling away), it would
be a restitution of all things via revelation to the Lord's servants,
the prophets.

  
   and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
  EPH 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by
Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end.
Amen.
  
  God's word was NEVER lost

DAVEH: I don't think we were referring to God's word being lost, but
rather to people being lostsearching to and fro for the truth. As
Isaiah recorded in 29:13.

Wherefore the Lord said, For as much as this people draw near me with
their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their
heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of
men.

Rather than hear the real message of the Lord's word, they
become lost due to the dogma and traditions (such as the T-Doctrine
 belief in a literal lake of fire and brimstone) derived by men
centuries ago. At least that's how I see it.

 To suggest that God's word was never lost, I think that might be
short sighted thinking. Seems to me there are a lot of gaps in or
knowledge of what happened in Biblical times, and what God may have
revealed. Is that not why there are so many theological questions and
controversies over doctrines? Furthermore, there are books written
(viz, THE LOST BOOKS OF THE BIBLE) regarding material that has since
been discovered.


  You may have lost it or may never have found it.
  God's word is ETERNAL  ALIVE
  
  1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of
incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth
for ever.
  
  But then again you do not trust His word
  

DAVEH: I think I trust it far more than I trust those who purport the
Bible is all God has revealed, Kevin.

  
  Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Kevin Deegan wrote:

  And Mormons are proof of that falling away!
  
  There was NO TOTAL APOSTACY that needed a RESTORATION

DAVEH: I would have thought the Protestants would be happy to suggest
the RCC or the Dark Ages represented a time of apostasy and falling
away. Couldn't Protestants then claim the Reformation movement to be a
part of the prophecy of a restitution of all things as spoken by the
Bible? If the Protestants don't lay claim to such a restoration, then
when do they think it will happen, Kevin?

  thru a a money digging OCCULTIST, who could not stay away
from other mens wives.
  
  

  


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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

No the material Blaine posted has to do with a heretic taking a copy and changing the words in that copy sometimes 10 different times and different handwritings.I can take a copy of your mortgage and change it 100 times what does that have to do with the terms of your mortgage CONTRACT?Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

Show me one error.DAVEH: Hm...have you been reading what Blaine posted, Kevin? Read to the bottom of this post. You have replied to it several times now, and it remains pretty much as Blaine posted it. The material Blaine quoted suggested there are quite a few parts of the Bible that were changed (added or subtracted) by somebody in the evolution of the translation process over the centuries. I don't know if the below material is accurate or not, but you seem to think it is in error merely by its association with the JWs. I'm just trying to find out if your preconceived prejudices are reflected in your answer, or if there really is something wrong with what Blaine posted. As I've said before, when I hear stuff from other LDS folks, I suspect it is biased and may not factually represent what is believed outside the LDS realm. If you know it is wrong, please explain why and
how. Otherwise, it seems pretty good evidence that the Bibles we have today are not inerrant as many TTers have suggested.

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

I already answered this see other postDAVEH: Really??? Is your below comment the post you are referring to..
Perhaps you should take a second look. take your own advice.
or have you converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Do you visit Jehovah Witness sites regularly?Do you follow their other teachings also?...If that isn't your answer, then perhaps I failed to see it.or recognize it if I did see it. Would you be so kind as to explain it again, Kevin. (Copy/paste if you would, please.)

This info is in error.DAVEH: Does your other post explain why/how it is in error, Kevin? Your above/below comment certainly doesn't explain it. You seem to take great delight in attacking LDS theology. Now, how about devoting as much enthusiasm explaining your own beliefs..

Maybe you two groups (LDS JW) should combine forces and cast dispersion on God's word.
You could call it the "Yea hath God said society"DAVEH: Nobody is questioning what God said, Kevin. What is in question is whether what is in the Bible today is the same as what God said several thousand years ago. You have already acknowledged that some (the headings) is not inerrant or from God. And we have seen before that some translations (viz the NIV) do not include all the material that the KJV offers. So it seems apparent that God has not specifically protected each translation we have today. At some point, problem material has been allowed (by God) to enter into what we consider the Bible today. My question to you is where you safely draw the line.the line (time) that says before this we can trust everything that is printed in the Bible, and after this time (line) errant material may have been introduced or inerrant material may have been deleted. Is there a time you can say such,
Kevin? If not, then it seems one has to conclude that the Bible is not necessarily inerrant.

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

Raymond Bothoms hence; you
Got your information from a Jehovah Witness site
http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htmDAVEH: Whether or not the author is a JW (or whether the site is JW related), is the material he offered correct, Kevin? IF it is correct, would that not suggest the Bible is not as inerrant as some TTers have professed? IF his information is not correct, how do you explain it?

Are you joining?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Raymond Bothoms is just another one of us good old boys from Utah. By the way, Kevin, where do you live? Georgia? Alabama? Mexico? LOL

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

The mss from the Recieved or Majority text do not have a common ancestor. They were found in every part of the globe. Suppose you told 1000 people a story, which they separately then repeated to a second party.Who then repeated to a third party and so on. The TRANSMISSUION of the scriptures was done in a parrallel fashion not in a serial fashion.When you have many parrallel paths they all agree it is apretty foolproof check. Now the corrupt mss VATICANus SAINATICUS are obviously corrupt on their face (words crossed out, diff handwritings) They also do not agree with each other their testimony is impugned by this fact. They belong back in the trash heap they were found in. Why do you suppose someone threw them in the trash, in the first place?

If you have read your Bible, you know there were rules God established for testimony.
When the religious leaders went after Jesus, they suborned the testimony against him.

Acts 6:11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
This is what these 2 mss are suborned testimony of some heretics, who did not like the diety of Jesus Christ.
Why did God command to use multiple witnesses?
1 Tim 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Du 19;15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
What if these witnesses disagree between themselves over 2000 times in their testimony? This is what happened in the testimony against Jesus. The witnesses, could not agree.
Mark 14:6 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.
Their witness was trash. This is what lawyers try to do when they call witnesses and crossexamine. They are looking for contradictions. If the witness is full of contradictions it is trash testimony.
So we have many thosands of mss from parrallel sources every corner of the world, that agree with each other in every detail. We have a small minority that are disfigured on their face, and disagree among themselves. their testimony is trash. There is more testimony we could consider than just the mss. The Bible i hold in my hands is the Word of God.
Provs 15 EVERY WORD of God is Pure

What if these witnesses isagree between themselves over 2000 times in their testimony?
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

DAVEH: Whether or not the author is a JW (or whether the site is JW related), is the material he offered correct, Kevin? IF it is correct, would that not suggest the Bible is not as inerrant as some TTers have professed? IF his information is not correct, how do you explain it?

Dave below find my previous post,DAVEH: Thank you, Kevin. I vaguely remember seeing it, but apparently skipped through it due to a shortage of time. So.even though it comes from an older manuscript, you have rejected it simply because it reflects a lot of changes in subsequent manuscripts? Unless I'm missing something on this Kevin, that seems a dangerous position to adopt. What if the scribe of the second set of manuscripts decided to change things, or had bad eyesightor whatever? Then.any subsequent manuscripts to his would have all shared his common errors, would they not? (I know I am simplifying this a bit, but I do so for the sake of illustration.) If scholars point such out, are they automatically labeled liberals because of your preconceived biases? Or.is there any room for scholarly thought in your theological realm? I guess my
question to you, Kevin, is why do you feel the Bible has to be so inerrant? Does it destroy your belief in Jesus if it is not inerrant?

with ONE CORRECTION BELOW "Now TWO Mormons"
HOLY BIBLE says Study to show thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly diving the Word of truth
Where can I find this word? DAVEH: As always, God reveals his word to his servants, the prophets. It is obvious that the original manuscripts have long since disappeared, and what exists now in the various translations of the Bible may or may not contain errors. BTW..Your below explanation could have been a bit clearer and addressed Raymond Bothom's comments a bit more succinctly, but I think it is sufficient for me to make the above comments. I assume you not agree with his comment.The Sinaitic Manuscript is perfect andcomplete and is the oldest known [complete] copy of the Scriptures,having been written (it is believed) in the year 331 A.D

ROTFL
The two manuscripts are TRASHit is obvious to everyone but some liberal intellectuals and at least 1 mormon.

Blaine would you accept a check with 10 different handwritings on it? that is the quality of these mss,they have been tampered

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-08 Thread Blaine Borrowman




Blaine You are probably right about one 
thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had not heard 
inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition,and the 
fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front yard if you 
disagree with them or have a little color to your skin.(:) But 
that has nothing to do with the truth, which I would represent as being far 
whiter than the sheets the good ol' boysuse to cover their sinful 
depradations against those whose come-uppance they most dreadfully fear. 

 FEAR is the opposite of 
FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon which the devil and 
his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon missionaries are not afraid 
to speak the truth in the South or anywhere else, and the result is that the 
church grows despite the devil and his hoststrying to 
intimidateagainst it. There are now Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this concern the 
baptists?Presently, there are temples in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas; North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky: Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta; 
Missouri: St. Louis; Texas: 
Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio; Virginia: Washington DC

Hmmm., maybe the 
Baptists should fear!!! But on the other hand, they no longer have 
to travel to Salt Lake City to try to convert the Mormons--they can now do it in 
their own backyards!! With their neighbors!! 
LOL


- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:28 
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in 
Kentucky?
 Blaine, the number of witnesses is impressive...but the book is a 
fraud, so  why would anyone believe the witnesses, or even that there 
were witnesses.  Show up in any court in the south and say "I'm a Mormon 
and the book of  Mormon says there were 12 witnesses, so it is true", 
and you will quickly  find out what the Southern Baptists believe. You 
can't use a false document  to prove itself!  
Perry  From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in 
Kentucky? Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:26:14 -0700  
Blaine: The problem is, you didn't give it a fair trial. In any 
court in  America (most courts, except maybe in Southern states 
where all those  Baptists hang out--lol), the testimony of two 
witnesses is enough to prove  innocence--or guilt. The BoM has 
three witnesses who saw the angel, the  gold plates, the sword of 
Laban, the interpreters (Urim and thummim), and  the compass used by 
Lehi and his group to guide them to the Promised Land,  called the 
Liahona--plus eight more witnesses who saw the gold plates.  
counting Joseph Smith himself, that makes a total of 12 witnesses. No 
 court--not even in Alabama--could deny this record. 
 - Original Message -  From: 
Kevin Deegan  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:08 PM  
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? 
   How about if we just put the Book of 
Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?  Blaine 
 It is on trial and is FOUND WANTING!  
 Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:   How about if we just 
put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK? 
 Blaine 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Kevin Deegan 
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:18 
PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old 
hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?   
 Have you TRIED that Spirit 
Baline?  The scripture says TRY 
THEM!  PUT THEM ON TRIAL 
  That is the simple fact. I 
do not have to prove anything. You choose  to ignore the scriptures 
to your own Demise!  
 The reason being is you do not want to 
give up your faith. You know  that JOe  the Prophets  the 
Church will not stand simple scrutiny no less  a Trial! 
  Blaine Borrowman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:  
 - Original 
Message - 
 From: Kevin 
Deegan  
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Thursday, 
March 04, 2004 10:27 AM 
 Subject: Re: 
[TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?  
  
Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 
 
Blaine: The story about JS seeing the words cross the stone  
inside the hat was never substantiated. At best, I think he may have 
used  the hat for effect, probably as a joke, and the rock inside 
was not a  crystal ball--I have a photo of it, and it is opaque, 
with several holes in  it. When Oliver Cowdery tried to 
translate, nothing happened. That was  because he had not 
learned to read the writing by himself. After JS  
learned the language of the Nephites, he ceased using the Urim and Thummim, 
 depending mostly on inspiration to tell him if his own 
interpretations were  correct. 
 Have you ever 
considered that the whole thing was a sad joke? 
 Not a crystal 
ball? What was it there for then? 
 Who taught JOe 
to read the ball or writing? 
 Where did the 
writing come from? Did it just app

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-08 Thread Terry Clifton

Blaine Borrowman wrote:

Blaine You are probably right about
one thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had
not heard inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition,and
the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front
yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to your
skin.(:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which I would
represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol' boysuse to
cover their sinful depradations against those whose come-uppance they
most dreadfully fear.
FEAR is
the opposite of FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon
which the devil and his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon
missionaries are not afraid to speak the truth in the South or anywhere
else, and the result is that the church grows despite the devil and his
hoststrying to intimidateagainst it. There are now Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this concern the
baptists?Presently, there are temples in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas; North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky:
Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta;
Missouri: St. Louis; Texas:
Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio; Virginia:
Washington DC

Hmmm.,
maybe the Baptists should fear!!! But on the other hand, they
no longer have to travel to Salt Lake City to try to convert the
Mormons--they can now do it in their own backyards!! With their
neighbors!! LOL
===
C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the
truth, he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon
temples spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no
surprise. We are told that in the last days, there will be a great
falling away. One day soon, the Father is going to turn to the Son,
and say,"Go get 'em". When that happens, it will be too late to
change, so I suggest that as soon as you get those DNA results back,
you put all this Mormon stuff behind you and be born again. If you
did, Kevin would have to embrace you as a brother. You could become a
wealthy man just selling tickets to that event.

Think about it.
Terry

What you

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Oh No they are taking over Fastest growing CULT in America!Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Blaine You are probably right about one thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had not heard inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition,and the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to your skin.(:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which I would represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol' boysuse to cover their sinful depradations against those whose come-uppance they most dreadfully fear. 
 FEAR is the opposite of FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon which the devil and his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon missionaries are not afraid to speak the truth in the South or anywhere else, and the result is that the church grows despite the devil and his hoststrying to intimidateagainst it. There are now Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this concern the baptists?Presently, there are temples in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas; North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky: Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta; Missouri: St. Louis; Texas: Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio; Virginia: Washington DC

Hmmm., maybe the Baptists should fear!!! But on the other hand, they no longer have to travel to Salt Lake City to try to convert the Mormons--they can now do it in their own backyards!! With their neighbors!! LOL


- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?
 Blaine, the number of witnesses is impressive...but the book is a fraud, so  why would anyone believe the witnesses, or even that there were witnesses.  Show up in any court in the south and say "I'm a Mormon and the book of  Mormon says there were 12 witnesses, so it is true", and you will quickly  find out what the Southern Baptists believe. You can't use a false document  to prove itself!  Perry  From: "Blaine Borrowman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:26:14 -0700  Blaine: The problem is, you didn't give it a fair trial. In any court in  America (most courts, except maybe in Southern states where all those  Baptists hang out--lol), the testimony of two witnesses is enough to prove  innocence--or guilt. The BoM has three witnesses who saw the angel, the  gold plates, the sword of Laban, the interpreters (Urim and thummim), and  the compass used by Lehi and his group to guide them to the Promised Land,  called the Liahona--plus eight more witnesses who saw the gold plates.  counting Joseph Smith himself, that makes a total of 12 witnesses. No  court--not even in Alabama--could deny this
 record.  - Original Message -  From: Kevin Deegan  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:08 PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?How about if we just put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?  Blaine  It is on trial and is FOUND WANTING!   Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   How about if we just put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK? 
 Blaine  - Original Message -  From: Kevin Deegan  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:18 PM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?Have you TRIED that Spirit Baline?  The scripture says TRY THEM!  PUT THEM ON TRIAL   That is the simple fact. I do not have to prove anything. You choose  to ignore the scriptures to your own Demise!
   The reason being is you do not want to give up your faith. You know  that JOe  the Prophets  the Church will not stand simple scrutiny no less  a Trial!   Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   - Original Message -  From: Kevin Deegan  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:27
 AM  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Blaine: The story about JS seeing the words cross the stone  inside the hat was never substantiated. At best, I think he may have used  the hat for effect, probably as a joke, and the rock inside was not a  crystal ball--I have a photo of it, and it is opaque, with several holes in  it. When Oliver Cowdery tried to translate, nothing happened. That was  because he had not learned to read the writing by himself.
 After JS  learned the language of the Nephites, he ceased using the Urim and Thummim,  depending mostly on inspiration to tell him if his own interpretations were  correct.  Have you ever considered that the whole thing was a sad joke?  Not a crystal ball? What was it there for then?  Who taught JOe to read the ball or writing?  Where did the writing come from? Did it jus

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

I would welcome that event.
But in the meantimeI will revel in all the conversions right outside the SLC Temple gates. See you in April Blaine.Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Blaine Borrowman wrote:

Blaine You are probably right about one thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they had not heard inculcated into their minds by tradition, repetition,and the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses in your front yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to your skin.(:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which I would represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol' boysuse to cover their sinful depradations against those whose come-uppance they most dreadfully fear.
FEAR is the opposite of FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon which the devil and his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon missionaries are not afraid to speak the truth in the South or anywhere else, and the result is that the church grows despite the devil and his hoststrying to intimidateagainst it. There are now Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this concern the baptists?Presently, there are temples in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas; North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky: Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta; Missouri: St. Louis; Texas: Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio; Virginia: Washington DC

Hmmm., maybe the Baptists should fear!!! But on the other hand, they no longer have to travel to Salt Lake City to try to convert the Mormons--they can now do it in their own backyards!! With their neighbors!! LOL
===
C'mon Blaine. If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the truth, he would stop being a Morman and repent. As for the Mormon temples spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no surprise. We are told that in the last days, there will be a great falling away. One day soon, the Father is going to turn to the Son, and say,"Go get 'em". When that happens, it will be too late to change, so I suggest that as soon as you get those DNA results back, you put all this Mormon stuff behind you and be born again. If you did, Kevin would have to embrace you as a brother. You could become a wealthy man just selling tickets to that event.Think about it.Terry

What you
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-08 Thread Dave

Kevin Deegan wrote:

Oh No they are taking over Fastest growing CULT in America!

DAVEH: ??? You've lost me on this Kevin.What are you trying to
say?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blaine You are probably right
about one thing, the Southern Baptists would not believe anything they
had not heard inculcated into their minds by tradition,
repetition,and the fear of the boys with the hoods who burn crosses
in your front yard if you disagree with them or have a little color to
your skin.(:) But that has nothing to do with the truth, which I
would represent as being far whiter than the sheets the good ol'
boysuse to cover their sinful depradations against those whose
come-uppance they most dreadfully fear.
FEAR is
the opposite of FAITH.FEAR is the principle upon
which the devil and his hosts operate throughout the world. Mormon
missionaries are not afraid to speak the truth in the South or anywhere
else, and the result is that the church grows despite the devil and his
hoststrying to intimidateagainst it. There are now Mormon temples all over the South, doesn't this concern the
baptists?Presently, there are temples in:
Tennessee: Nashville and Memphas; North Carolina: Raleigh; South Carolina: Columbia; Alabama: Birmingham; Kentucky:
Louiseville; Florida: Orlando; Georgia: Atlanta;
Missouri: St. Louis; Texas:
Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, San Antonio; Virginia:
Washington DC

--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-08 Thread Dave



Terry Clifton wrote:

C'mon Blaine.  If a Mormon missionary ever got a handle on the truth, 
he would stop being a Morman and repent.  As for the Mormon temples 
spreading through the south like fire ant hills, it is no surprise.  
We are told that in the last days, there will be a great falling away.

DAVEH:  Your comment interests me, Terry.  Where does it say that?

Terry


--
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-08 Thread Terry Clifton

Dave wrote:



Terry Clifton wrote:



DAVEH:  Your comment interests me, Terry.  Where does it say that?

Second Thessalonians, 2:3  New KJV

Terry





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought 
to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-08 Thread Dave







Terry Clifton wrote:
Dave
wrote:
  
  
  

Terry Clifton wrote:



  
  
  

DAVEH: Your comment interests me, Terry. Where does it say that?


Second Thessalonians, 2:3 New KJV
  

  

DAVEH: Thanx Terry.Let me quote it...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition.

.Now let me quote your comment, Terry..

We are told that in the last days, there will be a great falling away.


.My question is to find out why you believe that falling
away will happen in the last days? 

 Could the falling away have started much
earlier.perhaps in the RCC times prior to the Reformation? Or,
could it have began with the persecution of the Primitive Christians?
What makes you think the falling away is relegated to the last
days as opposed to a much earlier time?
Terry
  


-- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

Raymond Bothoms  hence; you
Got your information from a Jehovah Witness site
http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm 

Are you joining?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Raymond Bothoms is just another one of us good old boys from Utah. By the way, Kevin, where do you live? Georgia? Alabama? Mexico? LOL

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

Blaine: The Bible seems to have some problems, at least according to what Iread below. Perhaps those whose religion is founded on the assumption thatthe Bible is inerrant should take a second look.
Pehaps you should take a second look. take your own advice.
or have you converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Do you visit Jehovah Witness sites regularly?
Do you follow their other teachings also?- Forwarded message --From: Raymond Bothoms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:13:38 -0800 (PST)Subject: [Jewish-Roots-BoM] Suspected Interpolations in the New TestamentMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]These suspected interpolations are found athttp://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm (See alsohttp://www.friktechcom/rel/canon/nttexts.htm)SPURIOUS PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENTOn Authority of Professor C. Tischendorf's notes on the readings of thetwo oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209The following words, found in our Common Version (King James Version) arenot found in the Oldest Manuscripts, and are evidently no part of theDivine Word. Let each Berean go through his Bible, pencil in hand, andmark out these words: the! n read
 the passages affected and note theimprovement. This list comprises all the important interpolationsdiscovered to date.The compiler has condensed this list. From the compiler's point of viewthere exist very good reasons why everything in this list should becrossed out of our Bibles. Thus, when the interpolations are eliminatedfrom Mark 14:30, 68, 72, the account agrees exactly with that given bythe other evangelists. Or, take Luke 23:34: history shows that the Jewshave been obliged as a race to expiate their crime. Or take John 4:9: itdoes not agree at all with Luke 9:52, which shows that even the Lordhimself did have such dealings. Omitted from this list are the dozens ofinterpolations made by early copyists with the aim of making all thenarratives uniform, and the hundreds of non-essential words, the additionof which does not affect the purity of the message. (Some of thesepassages have already been omitted by more mo!
 dern translations such asthe New American Standard or the New International Version, since theywere translated from the more reliable, ancient manuscripts.)Matt. 5:22 without a causeMatt. 6:13 For thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.Matt. 6:25 or what ye shall drink*Matt. 16:2 When it is evening, ye say, it will be fair weather: for thesky is red.Matt. 16:3 This entire verseMatt.17:21 and fastingMatt.18:12 into the mountainsMatt. 20:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receiveMatt. 22:13 and take him awayMatt. 23:35 son of Barachias*Matt. 24:10 and shall hate one another*Matt. 24:31 sound of a*Matt. 24:41 women shall beMatt. 25:6 comethMatt. 27:52 and the graves were opened*Matt. 27: 53 and went*Matt. 28:19 thereforeMark 4:37 so that it was now full*Mark 6:51 beyond measure and
 wonderedMark 7:8 For as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such likethings as ye doMark 7:14 unto me every one of youMark 9:24 with tearsMark 9:29 and fastingMark 9:44 This entire verseMark 9:45 into the fire that shall never be quenchedMark 9:46 This entire verseMark 9:47 fireMark 9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with saltMark 10:24 for them that trust in richesMark 10:30 houses and brethren and sisters and mothers and children andlands with persecutions*Mark 14:30 twice*Mark 14:68 and the cock crewMark 14:72 the second time* twice*Mark 16:9-20 All these versesLuke 2: 40 in spiritLuke 8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched me?Luke 16:16 and every man presseth into itLuke 17:12 which stood afar off*Luke17:35 womenLuke 18:11 with himself*Luke 22:43 This entire verseLuke 22:! 44 This
 entire verseLuke 22:68 me, nor let me goLuke 23:5 teaching*Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not whatthey doLuke 24:42 and of an honeycombJohn 1:25 asked him, and*John 3:13 which is in heavenJohn 4:9 for the Jews have no dealings with the SamaritansJohn 5:3 waiting for the moving of the waterJohn 5:4 This entire verseJohn 5:25 and now is*John 8:1-11 all these versesJohn 8:59 going through the midst of them and so passed byJohn 16:16 because I go to the FatherJohn 19:23 and also his coat*John 21:25 This entire verseActs 6:3 Holy Ghost and (should read "spirit of")Acts 6:8 faith (should read "grace")Acts 8:37 This entire verseActs 9:31 churches (

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

These witnesses had no conviction.
The things they "saw" made NO DIFFERENCE in their lives 
ALL of the 3 Witnesses APOSTACIZED
(therefore they were witnesses against the power of the BoM)
4 of the eight Apostacied a fifth dying before he had a chanceto, with the last 3 being SMITHS!
More of a witness against the BoM!
The church was founded in 1830 for 5 years they had NO APOSTLES!
How could this be? 
In 1835 The Elders laid hands on the 12 to appoint them as Apostles.
How does one that is a Melch Priest commision an Apostle?
Waiting for your answer. (Put this question with all the others you are unable to answer)
Your first 12 were not duly appointed which breaks your line of Priests,  Prophets too!
6 of the first 12 Apostacized!
What is with the bad track record?
In addition the DC call some of these men "wicked", "to mean to mention" and says some of them "could not tell a true from a false revelation"
What a great witness you have there Blaine

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Blaine: The problem is, you didn't give it a fair trial. In any court in America (most courts, except maybe in Southern states whereall thoseBaptists hang out--lol), the testimony of two witnesses is enough to prove innocence--or guilt. The BoM has three witnesses who saw the angel, the gold plates, the sword of Laban, the interpreters (Urim and thummim), and the compass used by Lehi and his group to guide them to the Promised Land, called the Liahona--plus eight more witnesses who saw the gold plates. counting Joseph Smith himself, that makes a total of 12 witnesses. No court--not even in Alabama--could deny this record. 

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

How about if we just put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?
Blaine
It is on trialand is FOUND WANTING!Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


How about if we just put the Book of Mormon on trial, Kevin? OK?
Blaine

- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Have you TRIED that Spirit Baline?
The scripture says TRY THEM!
PUT THEM ON TRIAL

That is the simple fact. I do not have to prove anything. You choose to ignore the scriptures to your own Demise!
The reason being is you do not want to give up your faith. You know that JOe  the Prophets  the Church will not stand simple scrutiny no less a Trial!
Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 




Blaine: The story about JS seeing the words cross the stone inside the hat was never substantiated. At best, I think he may have used the hat for effect, probably as a joke, and the rock inside was not a crystal ball--I have a photo of it, and it is opaque, with several holes in it. When Oliver Cowdery tried to translate, nothing happened. That was because he had not learned to read the writing by himself.  After JS learned the language of the Nephites, heceased using the Urim and Thummim, depending mostly on inspiration to tell him if his own interpretations were correct.
Have you ever considered that the whole thing was a sad joke?
Not a crystal ball? What was it there for then?
Who taught JOe to read the ball or writing?
Where did the writing come from? Did it just appear, out of nothing?

I do not think inspiration is the word it would be revelation. JOe relied on SPIRITual Revelation for a check on whether it was so. The question is who was the Spirit he communicated with?
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Blaine: This scripture (1 John 4:1) admits the Possibility of spirits that are not of God, but is general in application. We need to realize that you are the one actually making the application, Kevin, and so far we have seen no conclusive evidence your application is the correct one. It seems to me you are just BUCKING UP against the goad, or kicking against the pricks, as the Lord said to Saul.

 - Original Message - 


From: Kevin Deegan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

He had the help of seducing spirits, an fallen angel or two and a crystal ball in his hat.Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
Blaine: Oh darn! I only wrote one paragraph, and already aninconsistency!! I don't know how that Joseph Smith made it through so manypages and made the story so consistent!!- Original Message - From: "Terry Clifton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky?

2004-03-07 Thread elextech


Old bible manuscripts are available for scholars to study. Are old
Joe's golden plates available for scholars to study?

vincent j. fulton


On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 21:28:22 -0800 Charles Perry Locke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Blaine, the number of witnesses is impressive...but the book is a 
 fraud, so 
 why would anyone believe the witnesses, or even that there were 
 witnesses. 
 Show up in any court in the south and say I'm a Mormon and the book 
 of 
 Mormon says there were 12 witnesses, so it is true, and you will 
 quickly 
 find out what the Southern Baptists believe. You can't use a false 
 document 
 to prove itself!
 
 Perry

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

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Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

2004-03-07 Thread Dave





Kevin Deegan wrote:

  Raymond Bothoms  hence; you
  Got your information from a Jehovah Witness site
  http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm

DAVEH: Whether or not the author is a JW (or whether the site is JW
related), is the material he offered correct, Kevin? IF it is correct,
would that not suggest the Bible is not as inerrant as some TTers have
professed? IF his information is not correct, how do you explain it?

   
  
  Are you joining?
  
  
  Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


Raymond Bothoms is just another
one of us good old boys from Utah. By the way, Kevin, where do you
live? Georgia? Alabama? Mexico? LOL

  Blaine: The Bible seems to have some problems, at
least according to what I
read below. Perhaps those whose religion is founded on the assumption
that
the Bible is inerrant should take a second look.
  
  Pehaps you should take a second look. take your own advice.
  or have you converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
  Do you visit Jehovah Witness sites regularly?
  Do you follow their other teachings also?
  
- Forwarded message --
From: Raymond Bothoms 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:13:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jewish-Roots-BoM] Suspected Interpolations in the New
Testament
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
These suspected interpolations are found at
http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm (See also
http://www.friktechcom/rel/canon/nttexts.htm)
  
SPURIOUS PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
  
On Authority of Professor C. Tischendorf's notes on the readings of the
two oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209
  
The following words, found in our Common Version (King James Version)
are
not found in the Oldest Manuscripts, and are evidently no part of the
Divine Word. Let each Berean go through his Bible, pencil in hand, and
mark out these words: the! n read the passages affected and note the
improvement. This list comprises all the important interpolations
discovered to date.
  
The compiler has condensed this list. From the compiler's point of view
there exist very good reasons why everything in this list should be
crossed out of our Bibles. Thus, when the interpolations are eliminated
from Mark 14:30, 68, 72, the account agrees exactly with that given by
the other evangelists. Or, take Luke 23:34: history shows that the Jews
have been obliged as a race to expiate their crime. Or take John 4:9: it
does not agree at all with Luke 9:52, which shows that even the Lord
himself did have such dealings. Omitted from this list are the dozens of
interpolations made by early copyists with the aim of making all the
narratives uniform, and the hundreds of non-essential words, the
addition
of which does not affect the purity of the message. (Some of these
passages have already been omitted by more mo! dern translations such as
the New American Standard or the New International Version, since they
were translated from the more reliable, ancient manuscripts.)
  
Matt. 5:22 without a cause
  
Matt. 6:13 For thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for
ever. Amen.
  
Matt. 6:25 or what ye shall drink*
  
Matt. 16:2 When it is evening, ye say, it will be fair weather: for the
sky is red.
  
Matt. 16:3 This entire verse
  
Matt.17:21 and fasting
  
Matt.18:12 into the mountains
  
Matt. 20:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive
  
Matt. 22:13 and take him away
  
Matt. 23:35 son of Barachias*
  
Matt. 24:10 and shall hate one another*
  
Matt. 24:31 sound of a*
  
Matt. 24:41 women shall be
  
Matt. 25:6 cometh
  
Matt. 27:52 and the graves were opened*
  
Matt. 27: 53 and went*
  
Matt. 28:19 therefore
  
Mark 4:37 so that it was now full*
  
Mark 6:51 beyond measure and wondered
  
Mark 7:8 For as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like
things as ye do
  
Mark 7:14 unto me every one of you
  
Mark 9:24 with tears
  
Mark 9:29 and fasting
  
Mark 9:44 This entire verse
  
Mark 9:45 into the fire that shall never be quenched
  
Mark 9:46 This entire verse
  
Mark 9:47 fire
  
Mark 9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt
  
Mark 10:24 for them that trust in riches
  
Mark 10:30 houses and brethren and sisters and mothers and children and
lands with persecutions*
  
Mark 14:30 twice*
  
Mark 14:68 and the cock crew
  
Mark 14:72 the second time* twice*
  
Mark 16:9-20 All these verses
  
Luke 2: 40 in spirit
  
Luke 8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched me?
  
Luke 16:16 and every man presseth into it
  
Luke 17:12 which stood afar off*
  
Luke17:35 women
  
Luke 18:11 with himself*
  
Luke 22:43 This entire verse
  
Luke 22:! 44 This entire verse
  
Luke 22:68 me, nor let me go
  
Luke 23:5 teaching*
  
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

I already answered this see other post
This info is in error.
Maybe you two groups (LDS JW) should combine forces and cast dispersion on God's word.
You could call it the "Yea hath God said society"
Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

Are you joining?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Raymond Bothoms is just another one of us good old boys from Utah. By the way, Kevin, where do you live? Georgia? Alabama? Mexico? LOL

Blaine: The Bible seems to have some problems, at least according to what Iread below. Perhaps those whose religion is founded on the assumption thatthe Bible is inerrant should take a second look.
Pehaps you should take a second look. take your own advice.
or have you converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Do you visit Jehovah Witness sites regularly?
Do you follow their other teachings also?- Forwarded message --From: Raymond Bothoms To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:13:38 -0800 (PST)Subject: [Jewish-Roots-BoM] Suspected Interpolations in the New TestamentMessage-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]These suspected interpolations are found athttp://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm (See alsohttp://www.friktechcom/rel/canon/nttexts.htm)SPURIOUS PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENTOn Authority of Professor C.
Tischendorf's notes on the readings of thetwo oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209The following words, found in our Common Version (King James Version) arenot found in the Oldest Manuscripts, and are evidently no part of theDivine Word. Let each Berean go through his Bible, pencil in hand, andmark out these words: the! n read the passages affected and note theimprovement. This list comprises all the important interpolationsdiscovered to date.The compiler has condensed this list. From the compiler's point of viewthere exist very good reasons why everything in this list should becrossed out of our Bibles. Thus, when the interpolations are eliminatedfrom Mark 14:30, 68, 72, the account agrees exactly with that given bythe other evangelists. Or, take Luke 23:34: history shows that the Jewshave been obliged as a race to expiate their crime. Or take John 4:9: itdoes not agree at all with Luke 9:52,
which shows that even the Lordhimself did have such dealings. Omitted from this list are the dozens ofinterpolations made by early copyists with the aim of making all thenarratives uniform, and the hundreds of non-essential words, the additionof which does not affect the purity of the message. (Some of thesepassages have already been omitted by more mo! dern translations such asthe New American Standard or the New International Version, since theywere translated from the more reliable, ancient manuscripts.)Matt. 5:22 without a causeMatt. 6:13 For thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.Matt. 6:25 or what ye shall drink*Matt. 16:2 When it is evening, ye say, it will be fair weather: for thesky is red.Matt. 16:3 This entire verseMatt.17:21 and fastingMatt.18:12 into the mountainsMatt. 20:7 and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receiveMatt. 22:13 and
take him awayMatt. 23:35 son of Barachias*Matt. 24:10 and shall hate one another*Matt. 24:31 sound of a*Matt. 24:41 women shall beMatt. 25:6 comethMatt. 27:52 and the graves were opened*Matt. 27: 53 and went*Matt. 28:19 thereforeMark 4:37 so that it was now full*Mark 6:51 beyond measure and wonderedMark 7:8 For as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such likethings as ye doMark 7:14 unto me every one of youMark 9:24 with tearsMark 9:29 and fastingMark 9:44 This entire verseMark 9:45 into the fire that shall never be quenchedMark 9:46 This entire verseMark 9:47 fireMark 9:49 and every sacrifice shall be salted with saltMark 10:24 for them that trust in richesMark 10:30 houses and brethren and sisters and mothers and children andlands with persecutions*Mark 14:30 twice*Mark 14:68 and the
cock crewMark 14:72 the second time* twice*Mark 16:9-20 All these versesLuke 2: 40 in spiritLuke 8:45 and sayest thou, Who touched me?Luke 16:16 and every man presseth into itLuke 17:12 which stood afar off*Luke17:35 womenLuke 18:11 with himself*Luke 22:43 This entire verseLuke 22:! 44 This entire verseLuke 22:68 me, nor let me goLuke 23:5 teaching*Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father forgive them; for they know not whatthey doLuke 24:42 and of an honeycombJohn 1:25 asked him, and*John 3:13 which is in heavenJohn 4:9 for the Jews have no dealings with the SamaritansJohn 5:3 waiting for the moving of the waterJohn 5:4 This entire verseJohn 5:25 and now is*John 8:1-11 all these

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

2004-03-07 Thread Dave







Kevin Deegan wrote:

  I already answered this see other post

DAVEH: Really??? Is your below comment the post you are referring
to..

Perhaps you should take a second look. take your own advice.
or have you converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Do you visit Jehovah Witness sites regularly?
Do you follow their other teachings also?

...If that isn't your answer, then perhaps I failed to see
it.or recognize it if I did see it. Would you be so kind as to
explain it again, Kevin. (Copy/paste if you would, please.)

  This info is in error.

DAVEH: Does your other post explain why/how it is in error, Kevin?
Your above/below comment certainly doesn't explain it. You seem to
take great delight in attacking LDS theology. Now, how about devoting
as much enthusiasm explaining your own beliefs..

  Maybe you two groups (LDS  JW) should combine forces and
cast dispersion on God's word.
  You could call it the "Yea hath God said society"

DAVEH: Nobody is questioning what God said, Kevin. What is in
question is whether what is in the Bible today is the same as what God
said several thousand years ago. You have already acknowledged that
some (the headings) is not inerrant or from God. And we have seen
before that some translations (viz the NIV) do not include all the
material that the KJV offers. So it seems apparent that God has not
specifically protected each translation we have today. At some point,
problem material has been allowed (by God) to enter into what we
consider the Bible today. My question to you is where you safely draw
the line.the line (time) that says before this we can trust
everything that is printed in the Bible, and after this time (line)
errant material may have been introduced or inerrant material may have
been deleted. Is there a time you can say such, Kevin? If not, then
it seems one has to conclude that the Bible is not necessarily inerrant.

   
  
  
  Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Kevin
Deegan wrote:

  Raymond Bothoms  hence; you
  Got your information from a Jehovah Witness site
  http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm

DAVEH: Whether or not the author is a JW (or whether the site is JW
related), is the material he offered correct, Kevin? IF it is correct,
would that not suggest the Bible is not as inerrant as some TTers have
professed? IF his information is not correct, how do you explain it?

  
  Are you joining?
  
  
  Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  


Raymond Bothoms is just
another one of us good old boys from Utah. By the way, Kevin, where
do you live? Georgia? Alabama? Mexico? LOL

  Blaine: The Bible seems to have some problems,
at least according to what I
read below. Perhaps those whose religion is founded on the assumption
that
the Bible is inerrant should take a second look.
  
  Pehaps you should take a second look. take your own
advice.
  or have you converted to the Jehovah's Witnesses?
  Do you visit Jehovah Witness sites regularly?
  Do you follow their other teachings also?
  
- Forwarded message --
From: Raymond Bothoms 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:13:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Jewish-Roots-BoM] Suspected Interpolations in the New
Testament
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  
These suspected interpolations are found at
  http://www.bibletoday.com/htstb/spurious.htm
(See also
  http://www.friktechcom/rel/canon/nttexts.htm)
  
SPURIOUS PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
  
On Authority of Professor C. Tischendorf's notes on the readings of the
two oldest Greek manuscripts: The Sinaitic and the Vatican #1209
  
The following words, found in our Common Version (King James Version)
are
not found in the Oldest Manuscripts, and are evidently no part of the
Divine Word. Let each Berean go through his Bible, pencil in hand, and
mark out these words: the! n read the passages affected and note the
improvement. This list comprises all the important interpolations
discovered to date.
  
The compiler has condensed this list. From the compiler's point of view
there exist very good reasons why everything in this list should be
crossed out of our Bibles. Thus, when the interpolations are eliminated
from Mark 14:30, 68, 72, the account agrees exactly with that given by
the other evangelists. Or, take Luke 23:34: history shows that the Jews
have been obliged as a race to expiate their crime. Or take John 4:9: it
does not agree at all with Luke 9:52, which shows that even the Lord
himself did have such dealings. Omitted from this list are the dozens of
interpolations made by early copyists with the aim of making all the
narratives uniform, and the hundreds of non-essential words, the
addition
of which does not affect the purity of the message. (Some of these
passages have already been omitted by more mo! dern

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible

Show me one error.Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:

Are you joining?

Blaine Borrowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Raymond Bothoms is just another one of us good old boys from Utah. By the way, Kevin, where do you live? Georgia? Alabama? Mexico? LOL

Re: [TruthTalk] Old hebrew Coins found in Kentucky? inerrant Bible