Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
What about users who want their tweets to be repeated? Politicians, celebrities, product managers, and many others use Twitter as a broadcast medium. You can argue that this is wrong, or that Twitter is only for direct contact between one person and another, but that is like saying paper was only intended to write letters between two people. Twitter is a medium that will be used in many ways. It is just in its infancy. I know one thing, Twitter will be around long after the "power to the people" perspective of Web 2.0. Long after anyone remembers what Web 2.0 and user generated content mean. On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:54 AM, L. Mohan Arun wrote: > "Twitter or the user own the copyrights. Probably both. I meant it has > been made public > information, thereby granting some rights to those it was made public > to." > > This is a good point, makes one think: "What exactly are the rights > someone > is implicitly giving up just by posting it in a public forum, and if > someone else is found > using such posted contents inappropriately, at a later date, what > legal recourse does > the original poster have, to have the inappropriate usage rescinded > and compensated for damages" > > From an authority source: > "Merely posting a work online does not relinquish all rights. As in > other environments, merely placing property in public does not release > property rights. The Internet context, however, may indicate that some > actions with respect to the work are implicitly permitted." (as long > as it doesnt harm the poster and the forum from which the post was > taken) > > This is from > http://www.ipinfoblog.com/archives/intellectual-property-posting-as-implied-license.html > > Facebook made the same argument. > “Anyone can opt out of appearing here by changing their Search privacy > settings.” > > And someone asks "Yeah, but should they have to?" > http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/28/hacker-proves-facebooks-public-data-is-public/ > > I imagine this whole 'using twitter tweets only for analysis/ > aggregation' is a non-issue, because you are only statistically mining > info, without any personal data attached to it. But RapLeaf removed > identifying info (name, tel, etc) from their profile databases once > complaints started coming in. To be safe, if you are mining tweets > only for analysis, I wouldnt store the userid, because userid is > 'identifying info' that can be used to tie the tweet to its > originator. Most people wont bother, because the prevailing idealogy > is that if you tweeted, then you understood that the whole world knows > what you tweeted and you cant take the knowledge back. > > ~~~ Mohan Arun ~~~ > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
"Twitter or the user own the copyrights. Probably both. I meant it has been made public information, thereby granting some rights to those it was made public to." This is a good point, makes one think: "What exactly are the rights someone is implicitly giving up just by posting it in a public forum, and if someone else is found using such posted contents inappropriately, at a later date, what legal recourse does the original poster have, to have the inappropriate usage rescinded and compensated for damages" >From an authority source: "Merely posting a work online does not relinquish all rights. As in other environments, merely placing property in public does not release property rights. The Internet context, however, may indicate that some actions with respect to the work are implicitly permitted." (as long as it doesnt harm the poster and the forum from which the post was taken) This is from http://www.ipinfoblog.com/archives/intellectual-property-posting-as-implied-license.html Facebook made the same argument. “Anyone can opt out of appearing here by changing their Search privacy settings.” And someone asks "Yeah, but should they have to?" http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/28/hacker-proves-facebooks-public-data-is-public/ I imagine this whole 'using twitter tweets only for analysis/ aggregation' is a non-issue, because you are only statistically mining info, without any personal data attached to it. But RapLeaf removed identifying info (name, tel, etc) from their profile databases once complaints started coming in. To be safe, if you are mining tweets only for analysis, I wouldnt store the userid, because userid is 'identifying info' that can be used to tie the tweet to its originator. Most people wont bother, because the prevailing idealogy is that if you tweeted, then you understood that the whole world knows what you tweeted and you cant take the knowledge back. ~~~ Mohan Arun ~~~ -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
The basic level of statuses/filter will remain unchanged On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Scott J wrote: > I would like to know the answer to this as well. What will the limits > be on the statuses/filter? > > On Nov 17, 9:44 am, Dewald Pretorius wrote: >> Ryan, >> >> The Gnip blog post states: >> >> [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% >> of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access >> this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter >> will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing >> Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] >> >> How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming >> API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
I agree with blogging platforms and social networks but not the rest. Being an owner of a website does not imply that I'm a "Google user". Nor is a musician a user of the used record store. On Nov 17, 8:48 pm, John Kalucki wrote: > Every search engine, social network, blogging platform, content aggregator, > and to a certain extent, every used book store and used record store... > > -JohnOn Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Dewald Pretorius > wrote: > > As a business model, is there another company that takes content, > > which its users create and enter into the company's service with no > > compensation, and then turns around and sells that content to third > > parties, still with no compensation to the creators of the content? > > > I've been trying to think of another company that does this, but I'm > > striking a blank. I'm sure there must be others. > > > On Nov 17, 4:55 pm, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Ryan, I understand. I'm just happy to see you help companies put a > > > real value on Twitter data in any form. And I'm happy to see Twitter > > > find new ways to make money. You'll never hear "everything online must > > > be free" from me. I go way back to when people paid for software, in > > > a box, in stores. > > > > I'm also willing to bet that Twitter will eventually allow a paid > > > market to develop in actual tweets as well as data derived from them. > > > When Twitter IPOs, the market will demand that. Paying a third party > > > to filter and rank tweets that can be displayed on a website seems > > > perfectly legitimate. Why should every company have to pay to do their > > > own API programming to display aggregated tweets, when they can pay > > > someone for high quality tweets as a service? It seems illogical to > > > me, and from the point of view of the tweet's author, the copyright > > > issues are identical. > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Ryan Sarver > > wrote: > > > > Adam, it's a good question and it really comes down to what you are > > > > trying to re-sell. > > > > > Re-syndication or re-sale of the actual tweets is strictly prohibited > > > > and won't change on our end. We are however, ok with reselling of data > > > > that results from analysis of the Twitter API. > > > > > So a great example is Klout. They do a lot of work to determine a > > > > user's Klout score by analyzing the Twitter API and the content of > > > > tweets. They *are* able to resell their score, but they would not be > > > > able to resell the tweets that were used to determine that score. > > > > > It's nuanced, so let me know if that makes sense. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Ryan: > > > > >> Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about > > > >> the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now > > > >> the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been > > > >> telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from > > > >> the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell > > > >> what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, > > > >> which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve > > > >> around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow > > > >> businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm > > > >> hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely > > > >> mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help > > > >> the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting > > > >> developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. > > > > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark < > > shannon.cl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" > > links - > > > >>> will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels > > public? > > > > >>> Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell > > services > > > >>> on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of > > products such > > > >>> as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built > > by > > > >>> companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but > > which > > > >>> are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will > > configure > > > >>> different queries and searches to monitor? > > > > >>> And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to > > make > > > >>> the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool > > using > > > >>> Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial > > feeds as > > > >>> seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical > > but > > > >>> with different URL's?) > > > > >>> And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" > > services > > > >>> - does
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Just to clarify. I never said they were Public Domain. Twitter or the user own the copyrights. Probably both. I meant it has been made public information, thereby granting some rights to those it was made public to. I wouldn't have a right to redistribute a book written by you, but I have every right to quote it in an article I write about you. More importantly, I can read 1000 books by 1000 different people and then write a paper that says 50% of the books written contained the word 'Obama' and and the average amount of times "Obama" was used in a book was 14. I wouldn't be breaking any laws. But who cares. In the future, if you want to access the Twitter data for such usage with any sort of speed you will pay to do so. It won't even be worth the headache if you can devise an alternative. On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Matthew Terenzio wrote: > I don't care what your newsletter says. I'm talking about American law. > > > On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:28 PM, L. Mohan Arun wrote: > >> "We have every right in the world to gather this data for analysis >> without >> any permission. It's public." >> >> No. >> >> "You don't get to compile posts from a discussion forum into a >> product, under the idea that such posts are "public domain." >> They are not." - Unless you own the forum or have a deal with the >> forum owner, >> and you stated in the TOS >> that all posts made in the forum can be repackaged commercially >> and only you have the right to do that. >> >> I am not saying this on my own, this is from one of the newsletters I >> receive, >> which covered this exact same topic, I would be happy to share the >> relevant >> text of the newsletter if someone is interested ... >> >> - - - >> Mohan Arun >> www.mohanarun.com >> >> >> -- >> Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >> http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >> Change your membership to this group: >> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk >> > > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
I don't care what your newsletter says. I'm talking about American law. On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:28 PM, L. Mohan Arun wrote: > "We have every right in the world to gather this data for analysis > without > any permission. It's public." > > No. > > "You don't get to compile posts from a discussion forum into a > product, under the idea that such posts are "public domain." > They are not." - Unless you own the forum or have a deal with the > forum owner, > and you stated in the TOS > that all posts made in the forum can be repackaged commercially > and only you have the right to do that. > > I am not saying this on my own, this is from one of the newsletters I > receive, > which covered this exact same topic, I would be happy to share the > relevant > text of the newsletter if someone is interested ... > > - - - > Mohan Arun > www.mohanarun.com > > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: > http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
"We have every right in the world to gather this data for analysis without any permission. It's public." No. "You don't get to compile posts from a discussion forum into a product, under the idea that such posts are "public domain." They are not." - Unless you own the forum or have a deal with the forum owner, and you stated in the TOS that all posts made in the forum can be repackaged commercially and only you have the right to do that. I am not saying this on my own, this is from one of the newsletters I receive, which covered this exact same topic, I would be happy to share the relevant text of the newsletter if someone is interested ... - - - Mohan Arun www.mohanarun.com -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
I would like to know the answer to this as well. What will the limits be on the statuses/filter? On Nov 17, 9:44 am, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > Ryan, > > The Gnip blog post states: > > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] > > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming > API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
John, I'm not sure how you draw that comparison. Google/Yahoo/Microsoft do not sell the content of the sites that they index. Neither do WordPress or Blogger sell the content of the blog posts. Facebook/Buzz do not sell the content of people's status updates. They monetize "around" the content, with ads, etc., just as Twitter does with promoted content. This is not a question of right or wrong. The Twitter TOS make it clear that you can / will provide the content to third-parties with no compensation to Twitter users. I'm just trying to figure out who else uses the same business model. On Nov 18, 12:48 am, John Kalucki wrote: > Every search engine, social network, blogging platform, content aggregator, > and to a certain extent, every used book store and used record store... > > -John > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > > As a business model, is there another company that takes content, > > which its users create and enter into the company's service with no > > compensation, and then turns around and sells that content to third > > parties, still with no compensation to the creators of the content? > > > I've been trying to think of another company that does this, but I'm > > striking a blank. I'm sure there must be others. > > > On Nov 17, 4:55 pm, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Ryan, I understand. I'm just happy to see you help companies put a > > > real value on Twitter data in any form. And I'm happy to see Twitter > > > find new ways to make money. You'll never hear "everything online must > > > be free" from me. I go way back to when people paid for software, in > > > a box, in stores. > > > > I'm also willing to bet that Twitter will eventually allow a paid > > > market to develop in actual tweets as well as data derived from them. > > > When Twitter IPOs, the market will demand that. Paying a third party > > > to filter and rank tweets that can be displayed on a website seems > > > perfectly legitimate. Why should every company have to pay to do their > > > own API programming to display aggregated tweets, when they can pay > > > someone for high quality tweets as a service? It seems illogical to > > > me, and from the point of view of the tweet's author, the copyright > > > issues are identical. > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Ryan Sarver > > wrote: > > > > Adam, it's a good question and it really comes down to what you are > > > > trying to re-sell. > > > > > Re-syndication or re-sale of the actual tweets is strictly prohibited > > > > and won't change on our end. We are however, ok with reselling of data > > > > that results from analysis of the Twitter API. > > > > > So a great example is Klout. They do a lot of work to determine a > > > > user's Klout score by analyzing the Twitter API and the content of > > > > tweets. They *are* able to resell their score, but they would not be > > > > able to resell the tweets that were used to determine that score. > > > > > It's nuanced, so let me know if that makes sense. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Ryan: > > > > >> Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about > > > >> the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now > > > >> the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been > > > >> telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from > > > >> the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell > > > >> what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, > > > >> which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve > > > >> around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow > > > >> businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm > > > >> hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely > > > >> mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help > > > >> the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting > > > >> developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. > > > > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark < > > shannon.cl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" > > links - > > > >>> will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels > > public? > > > > >>> Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell > > services > > > >>> on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of > > products such > > > >>> as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built > > by > > > >>> companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but > > which > > > >>> are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will > > configure > > > >>> different queries and searches to monitor? > > > > >>> And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to > > make
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
You can simply set your account to protected... Tom Sent from my iPhone On Nov 18, 2010, at 5:59 AM, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" wrote: > Quoting John Kalucki : > >> Every search engine, social network, blogging platform, content aggregator, >> and to a certain extent, every used book store and used record store... > > Except that digital content producers can block search engines if it's in > their economic interests to do so. I'm not sure how that's working out in > "Murdoch vs. Google", but at least it's been examined. ;-) > > For that matter, some "news organizations" have imposed strict rules on how > and when they may "use" Twitter. > > -- > M. Edward (Ed) Borasky > http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb > > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos> > > > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Quoting John Kalucki : Every search engine, social network, blogging platform, content aggregator, and to a certain extent, every used book store and used record store... Except that digital content producers can block search engines if it's in their economic interests to do so. I'm not sure how that's working out in "Murdoch vs. Google", but at least it's been examined. ;-) For that matter, some "news organizations" have imposed strict rules on how and when they may "use" Twitter. -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos> -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Every search engine, social network, blogging platform, content aggregator, and to a certain extent, every used book store and used record store... -John On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > As a business model, is there another company that takes content, > which its users create and enter into the company's service with no > compensation, and then turns around and sells that content to third > parties, still with no compensation to the creators of the content? > > I've been trying to think of another company that does this, but I'm > striking a blank. I'm sure there must be others. > > On Nov 17, 4:55 pm, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ryan, I understand. I'm just happy to see you help companies put a > > real value on Twitter data in any form. And I'm happy to see Twitter > > find new ways to make money. You'll never hear "everything online must > > be free" from me. I go way back to when people paid for software, in > > a box, in stores. > > > > I'm also willing to bet that Twitter will eventually allow a paid > > market to develop in actual tweets as well as data derived from them. > > When Twitter IPOs, the market will demand that. Paying a third party > > to filter and rank tweets that can be displayed on a website seems > > perfectly legitimate. Why should every company have to pay to do their > > own API programming to display aggregated tweets, when they can pay > > someone for high quality tweets as a service? It seems illogical to > > me, and from the point of view of the tweet's author, the copyright > > issues are identical. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Ryan Sarver > wrote: > > > Adam, it's a good question and it really comes down to what you are > > > trying to re-sell. > > > > > Re-syndication or re-sale of the actual tweets is strictly prohibited > > > and won't change on our end. We are however, ok with reselling of data > > > that results from analysis of the Twitter API. > > > > > So a great example is Klout. They do a lot of work to determine a > > > user's Klout score by analyzing the Twitter API and the content of > > > tweets. They *are* able to resell their score, but they would not be > > > able to resell the tweets that were used to determine that score. > > > > > It's nuanced, so let me know if that makes sense. > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Ryan: > > > > >> Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about > > >> the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now > > >> the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been > > >> telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from > > >> the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell > > >> what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, > > >> which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve > > >> around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow > > >> businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm > > >> hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely > > >> mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help > > >> the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting > > >> developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. > > > > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark < > shannon.cl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>> Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" > links - > > >>> will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels > public? > > > > >>> Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell > services > > >>> on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of > products such > > >>> as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built > by > > >>> companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but > which > > >>> are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will > configure > > >>> different queries and searches to monitor? > > > > >>> And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to > make > > >>> the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool > using > > >>> Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial > feeds as > > >>> seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical > but > > >>> with different URL's?) > > > > >>> And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" > services > > >>> - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the > new > > >>> Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are > > >>> returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value > and > > >>> utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply > to > > >>> many of those messages, might want to follo
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Just write your own massive dataset and filter our Twitters ads. On a side note someone wrote about error 403 proxy. No you never need a proxy, but use a proxy to circumvent the API sure awesome. Best, -- Edward H. Hotchkiss http://www.edwardhotchkiss.com/ http://www.twitter.com/edwardhotchkiss/ -- On Nov 17, 2010, at 3:25 PM, Ryan Sarver wrote: Shannon, good questions -- answers inline below... On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Shannon Clark > wrote: Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? They will be published if they aren't already and they are being widely reported through RWW and other outlets. One of the main goal is transparency Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure different queries and searches to monitor? Companies can definitely build and sell products based on the analysis of the data. A major market for this move is the Social Media Monitoring (SMM) market and we expect that to grow. And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool using Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but with different URL's?) Gnip is offering an exact proxy of our API so that the payloads look the same. You would just need to change the endpoint you are pointing at and (I think) your credentials for accessing the endpoint And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" services - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will want to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of tweets etc.) This is really about B2C vs B2B. We expect that the dashboard will want to show tweets and we support that, but it should be for a commercial audience that wouldn't be interested in running Twitter's promoted products. Let me know if that doesn't make sense. And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? This deal is all about elevated access. CoTweet and Hootsuite are able to operate on the freely available, basic APIs. If however, Hootsuite wanted to get larger volumes of data for analytics, they would want to reach out to Gnip. Hope that answers your questions. Best, Ryan thanks, Shannon (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some business clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm following these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in the analytics space soon) - Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com - cell: 1.510.333.0295 Twitter - rycaut On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Sarver wrote: Dewald, The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels for non-display use will be served through Gnip. Hope that answers the question. Best, Ryan On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: Ryan, The Gnip blog post states: [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this g
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Quoting Ryan Sarver : On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Shannon Clark wrote: Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure different queries and searches to monitor? Companies can definitely build and sell products based on the analysis of the data. A major market for this move is the Social Media Monitoring (SMM) market and we expect that to grow. As I've already noted, I don't see the economic / business sense in paying a monopoly middleman for downsampled Firehose when the full Firehose is directly available via negotiation with Twitter. IMHO, if you've got the brains and infrastructure to create social media monitoring business value from 10% or 50% of the Firehose, it's easy to scale that up to 100% of the Firehose. If you don't, well, you're one of the 95 percent of businesses that fail because *you* made a wrong decision. While I haven't paid much attention to the "social media monitoring" market recently, what I've seen for much of 2010 is consolidation - big companies like IBM buying smaller ones with *solid* business models. What I *haven't* seen in social media monitoring / analytics is "small nimble startups" becoming successful with "minimum viable products". Social media monitoring is a difficult business to be in, *especially* at the data rates Twitter delivers and the "unnatural" aspects of Twitter linguistics. The sales cycle for social media monitoring tools is long and arduous, and, IMHO, Facebook, Flickr and YouTube data are immensely richer and easier for marketers to explore and exploit than Twitter data. -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan, What happens to users who are at 'restricted track' or 'partner track' levels for streaming API access? Also, what is the time frame for moving from twitter to Gnip and would twitter be contacting users who will no longer be able to access Twitter API and refer them thru migration process? I am still not clear about usage of 'non-display' term. From your example - would current or future B2B tool vendors offering services similar to Radian6, ScoutLabs, have to go thru Gnip to get Twitter data? -- Thanks, Devang. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Ryan Sarver wrote: > Shannon, good questions -- answers inline below... > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Shannon Clark > wrote: > > Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - > > will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? > > They will be published if they aren't already and they are being > widely reported through RWW and other outlets. One of the main goal is > transparency > > > > > Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell > services > > on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products > such > > as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by > > companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but > which > > are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure > > different queries and searches to monitor? > > Companies can definitely build and sell products based on the analysis > of the data. A major market for this move is the Social Media > Monitoring (SMM) market and we expect that to grow. > > > > > And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make > > the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool > using > > Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as > > seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but > > with different URL's?) > > Gnip is offering an exact proxy of our API so that the payloads look > the same. You would just need to change the endpoint you are pointing > at and (I think) your credentials for accessing the endpoint > > > > > And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" > services > > - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new > > Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are > > returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and > > utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to > > many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing > > their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will > want > > to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of > > tweets etc.) > > This is really about B2C vs B2B. We expect that the dashboard will > want to show tweets and we support that, but it should be for a > commercial audience that wouldn't be interested in running Twitter's > promoted products. Let me know if that doesn't make sense. > > > > > And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, > > Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional > version) > > such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? > > This deal is all about elevated access. CoTweet and Hootsuite are able > to operate on the freely available, basic APIs. If however, Hootsuite > wanted to get larger volumes of data for analytics, they would want to > reach out to Gnip. > > Hope that answers your questions. > > Best, Ryan > > > > > thanks, > > > > Shannon > > > > (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some > business > > clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the > > appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm > following > > these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in > the > > analytics space soon) > > > > - > > Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ > > Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com > > Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com > > - > > cell: 1.510.333.0295 Twitter - rycaut > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Sarver > wrote: > >> > >> Dewald, > >> > >> The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, > >> Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels > >> for non-display use will be served through Gnip. > >> > >> Hope that answers the question. > >> > >> Best, Ryan > >> > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius > >> wrote: > >> > Ryan, > >> > > >> > The Gnip blog post states: > >> > > >> > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% > >> > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access > >> > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instea
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
As a business model, is there another company that takes content, which its users create and enter into the company's service with no compensation, and then turns around and sells that content to third parties, still with no compensation to the creators of the content? I've been trying to think of another company that does this, but I'm striking a blank. I'm sure there must be others. On Nov 17, 4:55 pm, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ryan, I understand. I'm just happy to see you help companies put a > real value on Twitter data in any form. And I'm happy to see Twitter > find new ways to make money. You'll never hear "everything online must > be free" from me. I go way back to when people paid for software, in > a box, in stores. > > I'm also willing to bet that Twitter will eventually allow a paid > market to develop in actual tweets as well as data derived from them. > When Twitter IPOs, the market will demand that. Paying a third party > to filter and rank tweets that can be displayed on a website seems > perfectly legitimate. Why should every company have to pay to do their > own API programming to display aggregated tweets, when they can pay > someone for high quality tweets as a service? It seems illogical to > me, and from the point of view of the tweet's author, the copyright > issues are identical. > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Ryan Sarver wrote: > > Adam, it's a good question and it really comes down to what you are > > trying to re-sell. > > > Re-syndication or re-sale of the actual tweets is strictly prohibited > > and won't change on our end. We are however, ok with reselling of data > > that results from analysis of the Twitter API. > > > So a great example is Klout. They do a lot of work to determine a > > user's Klout score by analyzing the Twitter API and the content of > > tweets. They *are* able to resell their score, but they would not be > > able to resell the tweets that were used to determine that score. > > > It's nuanced, so let me know if that makes sense. > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Ryan: > > >> Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about > >> the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now > >> the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been > >> telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from > >> the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell > >> what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, > >> which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve > >> around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow > >> businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm > >> hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely > >> mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help > >> the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting > >> developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. > > >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark > >> wrote: > >>> Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - > >>> will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? > > >>> Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services > >>> on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products > >>> such > >>> as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by > >>> companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but > >>> which > >>> are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure > >>> different queries and searches to monitor? > > >>> And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make > >>> the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool > >>> using > >>> Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as > >>> seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but > >>> with different URL's?) > > >>> And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" > >>> services > >>> - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new > >>> Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are > >>> returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and > >>> utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to > >>> many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing > >>> their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will > >>> want > >>> to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of > >>> tweets etc.) > > >>> And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, > >>> Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) > >>> such enhanced Mentions
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan, I understand. I'm just happy to see you help companies put a real value on Twitter data in any form. And I'm happy to see Twitter find new ways to make money. You'll never hear "everything online must be free" from me. I go way back to when people paid for software, in a box, in stores. I'm also willing to bet that Twitter will eventually allow a paid market to develop in actual tweets as well as data derived from them. When Twitter IPOs, the market will demand that. Paying a third party to filter and rank tweets that can be displayed on a website seems perfectly legitimate. Why should every company have to pay to do their own API programming to display aggregated tweets, when they can pay someone for high quality tweets as a service? It seems illogical to me, and from the point of view of the tweet's author, the copyright issues are identical. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Ryan Sarver wrote: > Adam, it's a good question and it really comes down to what you are > trying to re-sell. > > Re-syndication or re-sale of the actual tweets is strictly prohibited > and won't change on our end. We are however, ok with reselling of data > that results from analysis of the Twitter API. > > So a great example is Klout. They do a lot of work to determine a > user's Klout score by analyzing the Twitter API and the content of > tweets. They *are* able to resell their score, but they would not be > able to resell the tweets that were used to determine that score. > > It's nuanced, so let me know if that makes sense. > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Ryan: >> >> Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about >> the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now >> the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been >> telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from >> the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell >> what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, >> which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve >> around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow >> businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm >> hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely >> mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help >> the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting >> developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. >> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark >> wrote: >>> Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - >>> will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? >>> >>> Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services >>> on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such >>> as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by >>> companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which >>> are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure >>> different queries and searches to monitor? >>> >>> And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make >>> the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool using >>> Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as >>> seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but >>> with different URL's?) >>> >>> And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" services >>> - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new >>> Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are >>> returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and >>> utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to >>> many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing >>> their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will want >>> to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of >>> tweets etc.) >>> >>> And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, >>> Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) >>> such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? >>> >>> thanks, >>> >>> Shannon >>> >>> (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some business >>> clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the >>> appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm following >>> these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in the >>> analytics space soon) >>> >>> - >>> Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ >>> Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com >>> Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com >>>
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan, Gnip will have to extend the Twitter API Rules into their TOS, otherwise good luck with enforcing the Twitter API Rules if the stream consumer has a contract only with Gnip. Your answer about elevated access answers my question about value. For completeness, here's what ReadWriteWeb says about the prices: Gnip will offer 50% of all the messages posted to Twitter for $360,000 per year, or 5% of all messages for $60,000 per year. [1] http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twitter_to_sell_50_of_all_tweets_for_360kyear_thro.php On Nov 17, 4:31 pm, Ryan Sarver wrote: > That's explicitly not true. You are bound by both the Twitter API > Rules and Gnip's TOS > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > > By the way, if you get Twitter data from Gnip, you are not bound to > > the Twitter TOS. Your business and contractual relationship is with > > Gnip, not Twitter. > > > On Nov 17, 3:28 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > >> The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year > >> contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. > > >> And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges > >> for the Twitter feeds. > > >> You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an > >> incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, > >> even if they can afford the charges. > > >> Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to > >> provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, > >> Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells > >> them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if > >> that's expressly prohibited. > > >> On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" > >> research.net> wrote: > >> > Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User > >> > Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk > >> > for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? > >> > And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to > >> > react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I > >> > briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use > >> > and their pricing exorbitant. > >> > -- > >> > M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb > > >> > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul > >> > Erdos > > > -- > > Twitter developer documentation and resources:http://dev.twitter.com/doc > > API updates via Twitter:http://twitter.com/twitterapi > > Issues/Enhancements Tracker:http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > > Change your membership to this > > group:http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ed, many developers don't want or can't afford the full Firehose. The market for Gnip is very large based on the demand that we were unable to serve. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:04 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > I quite frankly don't see *any* economic value in a downsampled Firehose. > Why should *anyone* pay Gnip for 10% or 50% of the Firehose when they can > negotiated *directly* with Twitter for the whole Firehose? > -- > M. Edward (Ed) Borasky > http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb > > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos > > > Quoting Dewald Pretorius : > >> The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year >> contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. >> >> And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges >> for the Twitter feeds. >> >> You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an >> incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, >> even if they can afford the charges. >> >> Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to >> provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, >> Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells >> them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if >> that's expressly prohibited. >> >> On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" > research.net> wrote: >>> >>> Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User >>> Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk >>> for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? >>> And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to >>> react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I >>> briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use >>> and their pricing exorbitant. >>> -- >>> M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb >>> >>> "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul >>> Erdos >> >> -- >> Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >> http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >> Change your membership to this group: >> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk >> > > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: > http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
That's explicitly not true. You are bound by both the Twitter API Rules and Gnip's TOS On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > By the way, if you get Twitter data from Gnip, you are not bound to > the Twitter TOS. Your business and contractual relationship is with > Gnip, not Twitter. > > On Nov 17, 3:28 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: >> The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year >> contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. >> >> And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges >> for the Twitter feeds. >> >> You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an >> incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, >> even if they can afford the charges. >> >> Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to >> provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, >> Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells >> them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if >> that's expressly prohibited. >> >> On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" > >> research.net> wrote: >> > Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User >> > Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk >> > for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? >> > And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to >> > react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I >> > briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use >> > and their pricing exorbitant. >> > -- >> > M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb >> >> > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul >> > Erdos > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Adam, it's a good question and it really comes down to what you are trying to re-sell. Re-syndication or re-sale of the actual tweets is strictly prohibited and won't change on our end. We are however, ok with reselling of data that results from analysis of the Twitter API. So a great example is Klout. They do a lot of work to determine a user's Klout score by analyzing the Twitter API and the content of tweets. They *are* able to resell their score, but they would not be able to resell the tweets that were used to determine that score. It's nuanced, so let me know if that makes sense. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ryan: > > Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about > the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now > the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been > telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from > the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell > what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, > which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve > around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow > businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm > hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely > mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help > the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting > developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark > wrote: >> Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - >> will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? >> >> Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services >> on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such >> as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by >> companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which >> are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure >> different queries and searches to monitor? >> >> And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make >> the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool using >> Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as >> seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but >> with different URL's?) >> >> And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" services >> - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new >> Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are >> returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and >> utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to >> many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing >> their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will want >> to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of >> tweets etc.) >> >> And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, >> Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) >> such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? >> >> thanks, >> >> Shannon >> >> (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some business >> clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the >> appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm following >> these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in the >> analytics space soon) >> >> - >> Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ >> Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com >> Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com >> - >> cell: 1.510.333.0295 Twitter - rycaut >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Sarver wrote: >>> >>> Dewald, >>> >>> The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, >>> Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels >>> for non-display use will be served through Gnip. >>> >>> Hope that answers the question. >>> >>> Best, Ryan >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius >>> wrote: >>> > Ryan, >>> > >>> > The Gnip blog post states: >>> > >>> > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% >>> > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access >>> > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter >>> > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing >>> > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] >>> > >>> > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming >>> > API? Are you discontinu
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
This deal with Gnip is all about *elevated access* you can build whatever product you want (as long as it adheres to the Twitter API Rules) with the basic APIs and basic levels of access. As to the second part of your question we are setting the pricing as to ensure that their sole position isn't exploited. With that being said, you might find the products to be expensive, but we feel this is premium data and we're mostly focused on consumer facing businesses where the business model is promoted products and the data is free to developers. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:51 PM, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote: > Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User Streams > but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk for Twitter > inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? And I'm curious > how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to react to insertion of > a monopoly middleman into their data source. I briefly dealt with Gnip a > while back and found their API hard to use and their pricing exorbitant. > -- > M. Edward (Ed) Borasky > http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb > > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos > > > Quoting Ryan Sarver : > >> Dewald, >> >> The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, >> Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels >> for non-display use will be served through Gnip. >> >> Hope that answers the question. >> >> Best, Ryan >> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius >> wrote: >>> >>> Ryan, >>> >>> The Gnip blog post states: >>> >>> [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% >>> of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access >>> this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter >>> will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing >>> Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] >>> >>> How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming >>> API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? >>> >>> -- >>> Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc >>> API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >>> Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >>> http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >>> Change your membership to this group: >>> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk >>> >> >> -- >> Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >> http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >> Change your membership to this group: >> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk >> > > > > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Shannon, good questions -- answers inline below... On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Shannon Clark wrote: > Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - > will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? They will be published if they aren't already and they are being widely reported through RWW and other outlets. One of the main goal is transparency > > Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services > on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such > as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by > companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which > are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure > different queries and searches to monitor? Companies can definitely build and sell products based on the analysis of the data. A major market for this move is the Social Media Monitoring (SMM) market and we expect that to grow. > > And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make > the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool using > Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as > seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but > with different URL's?) Gnip is offering an exact proxy of our API so that the payloads look the same. You would just need to change the endpoint you are pointing at and (I think) your credentials for accessing the endpoint > > And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" services > - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new > Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are > returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and > utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to > many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing > their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will want > to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of > tweets etc.) This is really about B2C vs B2B. We expect that the dashboard will want to show tweets and we support that, but it should be for a commercial audience that wouldn't be interested in running Twitter's promoted products. Let me know if that doesn't make sense. > > And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, > Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) > such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? This deal is all about elevated access. CoTweet and Hootsuite are able to operate on the freely available, basic APIs. If however, Hootsuite wanted to get larger volumes of data for analytics, they would want to reach out to Gnip. Hope that answers your questions. Best, Ryan > > thanks, > > Shannon > > (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some business > clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the > appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm following > these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in the > analytics space soon) > > - > Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ > Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com > Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com > - > cell: 1.510.333.0295 Twitter - rycaut > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Sarver wrote: >> >> Dewald, >> >> The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, >> Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels >> for non-display use will be served through Gnip. >> >> Hope that answers the question. >> >> Best, Ryan >> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius >> wrote: >> > Ryan, >> > >> > The Gnip blog post states: >> > >> > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% >> > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access >> > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter >> > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing >> > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] >> > >> > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming >> > API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? >> > >> > -- >> > Twitter developer documentation and resources: >> > http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >> > http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >> > Change your membership to this group: >> > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk >> > >> >> -- >> Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> Issues/Enhancements Trac
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Adam, what I wrote was not a case for or against Gnip and/or Twitter selling the stream through Gnip. I simply quoted Gnip prices and conditions from the Gnip pricing page, because it is relevant to this discussion. This time I will venture further and say that I do not see where is the value-add for the developer in getting his Twitter stream data from Gnip instead of directly from Twitter. Perhaps it's because the details on Gnip's site are still very scant on the Twitter feeds, or perhaps it's a deal where only the benefits for Twitter and Gnip were fully considered. I'd love to hear what are the benefits for the developer. On Nov 17, 3:49 pm, Adam Green <140...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dewald, I can't speak for Twitter, but I think you are missing the > path they seem to be building. As an independent developer you can > still use the streaming API at the default level of 400 keywords and > 5,000 follows for free. That is plenty to get a site started or build > a proof of concept for a client at no cost. If the site gets traction > or a client likes it, then you charge for it and get the money to > scale up. The client could be the corporate purchaser of the feed, or > if you have a site that charges for access, then you'd be crazy not to > get limited liability by incorporating as an LLC or S corp. That costs > $500 to file for in most states. > > I have no idea what Gnip's final prices will be. If they are > exhorbitant, Twitter will either die, or they will give wholesale > status to multiple vendors and let the market figure out the wholesale > price. I think they are smart enough to choose the later. The big > thing, the REALLY BIG thing, is that I just used the word price twice > in relation to Twitter. That means people will pay for Twitter stuff. > That means developers can get paid for Twitter stuff. Hooray! I like > getting paid. I don't mind paying others if it means I can also get > paid. As long as everything is free, nobody gets paid. > > Don't you want to get paid for your work? > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > > The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year > > contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. > > > And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges > > for the Twitter feeds. > > > You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an > > incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, > > even if they can afford the charges. > > > Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to > > provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, > > Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells > > them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if > > that's expressly prohibited. > > > On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" > research.net> wrote: > >> Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User > >> Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk > >> for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? > >> And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to > >> react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I > >> briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use > >> and their pricing exorbitant. > >> -- > >> M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb > > >> "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul > >> Erdos > > > -- > > Twitter developer documentation and resources:http://dev.twitter.com/doc > > API updates via Twitter:http://twitter.com/twitterapi > > Issues/Enhancements Tracker:http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > > Change your membership to this > > group:http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > > -- > Adam Green > Twitter API Consultant and Trainerhttp://140dev.com > @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
I quite frankly don't see *any* economic value in a downsampled Firehose. Why should *anyone* pay Gnip for 10% or 50% of the Firehose when they can negotiated *directly* with Twitter for the whole Firehose? -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos Quoting Dewald Pretorius : The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges for the Twitter feeds. You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, even if they can afford the charges. Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if that's expressly prohibited. On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" wrote: Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use and their pricing exorbitant. -- M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Dewald, I can't speak for Twitter, but I think you are missing the path they seem to be building. As an independent developer you can still use the streaming API at the default level of 400 keywords and 5,000 follows for free. That is plenty to get a site started or build a proof of concept for a client at no cost. If the site gets traction or a client likes it, then you charge for it and get the money to scale up. The client could be the corporate purchaser of the feed, or if you have a site that charges for access, then you'd be crazy not to get limited liability by incorporating as an LLC or S corp. That costs $500 to file for in most states. I have no idea what Gnip's final prices will be. If they are exhorbitant, Twitter will either die, or they will give wholesale status to multiple vendors and let the market figure out the wholesale price. I think they are smart enough to choose the later. The big thing, the REALLY BIG thing, is that I just used the word price twice in relation to Twitter. That means people will pay for Twitter stuff. That means developers can get paid for Twitter stuff. Hooray! I like getting paid. I don't mind paying others if it means I can also get paid. As long as everything is free, nobody gets paid. Don't you want to get paid for your work? On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year > contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. > > And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges > for the Twitter feeds. > > You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an > incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, > even if they can afford the charges. > > Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to > provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, > Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells > them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if > that's expressly prohibited. > > On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" research.net> wrote: >> Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User >> Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk >> for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? >> And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to >> react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I >> briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use >> and their pricing exorbitant. >> -- >> M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb >> >> "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Adam Green Twitter API Consultant and Trainer http://140dev.com @140dev -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
By the way, if you get Twitter data from Gnip, you are not bound to the Twitter TOS. Your business and contractual relationship is with Gnip, not Twitter. On Nov 17, 3:28 pm, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year > contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. > > And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges > for the Twitter feeds. > > You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an > incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, > even if they can afford the charges. > > Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to > provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, > Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells > them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if > that's expressly prohibited. > > On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" > research.net> wrote: > > Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User > > Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk > > for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? > > And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to > > react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I > > briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use > > and their pricing exorbitant. > > -- > > M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb > > > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
The minimum Gnip charge is $500 per month, with a minimum of a year contract, if you want to use Gnip in a production application. And that's before the -- still unknown -- additional access charges for the Twitter feeds. You can't use Gnip in a production application if you are not an incorporated business, so that excludes access for many developers, even if they can afford the charges. Maybe there's a secondary market here, for an incorporated business to provide access for one-man developers to Gnip data for a fee. Meaning, Reseller Inc subscribes to Gnip and gets the data feeds, and resells them to one-man developers. I haven't checked Gnip's TOS to see if that's expressly prohibited. On Nov 17, 2:51 pm, "M. Edward (Ed) Borasky" wrote: > Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User > Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk > for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? > And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to > react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I > briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use > and their pricing exorbitant. > -- > M. Edward (Ed) Boraskyhttp://borasky-research.nethttp://twitter.com/znmeb > > "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan: Shannon raises a lot of great points, but I'd like to hear more about the issue of reselling data derived from a purchased stream. Right now the TOS says that you can't resell data from the API. I've been telling clients that eventually Twitter will decide to make money from the API, and when that happens there would have to be a way to resell what has been paid for. Now that you are selling access to the API, which I strongly agree with, will you allow a free market to evolve around that by making it possible for Twitter data retailers to grow businesses, as well as wholesalers like Gnip? Please, say yes. I'm hoping an Apple-style, control the distribution channel completely mindset doesn't develop at Twitter. I'm hoping Twitter wants to help the developer ecosystem turn into a true third party market. Letting developers sell data or help clients sell data is essential for that. On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Shannon Clark wrote: > Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - > will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? > > Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services > on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such > as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by > companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which > are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure > different queries and searches to monitor? > > And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make > the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool using > Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as > seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but > with different URL's?) > > And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" services > - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new > Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are > returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and > utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to > many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing > their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will want > to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of > tweets etc.) > > And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, > Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) > such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? > > thanks, > > Shannon > > (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some business > clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the > appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm following > these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in the > analytics space soon) > > - > Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ > Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com > Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com > - > cell: 1.510.333.0295 Twitter - rycaut > > > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Sarver wrote: >> >> Dewald, >> >> The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, >> Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels >> for non-display use will be served through Gnip. >> >> Hope that answers the question. >> >> Best, Ryan >> >> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius >> wrote: >> > Ryan, >> > >> > The Gnip blog post states: >> > >> > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% >> > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access >> > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter >> > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing >> > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] >> > >> > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming >> > API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? >> > >> > -- >> > Twitter developer documentation and resources: >> > http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >> > http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >> > Change your membership to this group: >> > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk >> > >> >> -- >> Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc >> API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi >> Issues/Enhancements Tracker: >> http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list >> Change your membership to this group: >> http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan, what about User Streams? I'm building something around User Streams but it is a "non-display" analytics application. Am I at risk for Twitter inserting another business into *my* data stream as well? And I'm curious how some of the other Streaming consumers are going to react to insertion of a monopoly middleman into their data source. I briefly dealt with Gnip a while back and found their API hard to use and their pricing exorbitant. -- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky http://borasky-research.net http://twitter.com/znmeb "A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems." - Paul Erdos Quoting Ryan Sarver : Dewald, The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels for non-display use will be served through Gnip. Hope that answers the question. Best, Ryan On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: Ryan, The Gnip blog post states: [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Looking at Gnip's website they have the "contact us for pricing" links - will Twitter & Gnip be making the pricing for the various levels public? Will companies that license the data be allowed to, in turn, sell services on top of that data - i.e. will this spark a new generation of products such as Scout Labs (now Lithium) or other analytics tools which are built by companies who have negotiated for full or partial firehose access but which are then used by clients of those companies each of whom will configure different queries and searches to monitor? And on a more technical level will Gnip and Twitter work together to make the transition for developers who might start building/testing a tool using Twitter's free API's but then later migrate to Gnip's commercial feeds as seemless as possible? Will the API calls etc be similar (or identical but with different URL's?) And a further query - you emphasize that this is for "non-display" services - does that mean, for example, that an analytics tool built using the new Mentions feed from Gnip cannot display the underlying Tweets that are returned by that feed? This would seem to severely limit the value and utility of such analytics to many businesses (who might want to reply to many of those messages, might want to follow people on Twitter discussing their company/brand/industry/competitors, and in almost all cases will want to view the full Tweet w/rich metadata not just a summarization of #s of tweets etc.) And/or would a business focused Twitter client - CoTweet, Hootsuite, Tweetdeck etc be able to offer (perhaps as part of a professional version) such enhanced Mentions feeds and display them within that application? thanks, Shannon (I'm not an active developer at the moment but I am consulting some business clients on a range of social media tools and as analytics and the appropriate use of them is a core part of my recommendations I'm following these developments closely and look forward to I hope new competitors in the analytics space soon) - Real Things - http://realthings.posterous.com/ Slow Brand - http://slowbrand.com Searching for the Moon - http://shannonclark.wordpress.com - cell: 1.510.333.0295 Twitter - rycaut On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Ryan Sarver wrote: > Dewald, > > The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, > Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels > for non-display use will be served through Gnip. > > Hope that answers the question. > > Best, Ryan > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius > wrote: > > Ryan, > > > > The Gnip blog post states: > > > > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% > > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access > > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter > > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing > > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] > > > > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming > > API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? > > > > -- > > Twitter developer documentation and resources: > http://dev.twitter.com/doc > > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: > http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > > > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: > http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan, Thanks. Can I then suggest that you request Gnip to modify the description of their Twitter Decahose feed. They refer to it as a sample rate, which immediately creates confusion with your statuses/ sample. On Nov 17, 2:09 pm, Ryan Sarver wrote: > Dewald, > > The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, > Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels > for non-display use will be served through Gnip. > > Hope that answers the question. > > Best, Ryan > > On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > > Ryan, > > > The Gnip blog post states: > > > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% > > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access > > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter > > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing > > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] > > > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming > > API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? > > > -- > > Twitter developer documentation and resources:http://dev.twitter.com/doc > > API updates via Twitter:http://twitter.com/twitterapi > > Issues/Enhancements Tracker:http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > > Change your membership to this > > group:http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
Re: [twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Dewald, The basic levels of all of the streaming APIs -- Spritzer, Follow, Track -- will remain open, free and direct from us. Elevated levels for non-display use will be served through Gnip. Hope that answers the question. Best, Ryan On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Dewald Pretorius wrote: > Ryan, > > The Gnip blog post states: > > [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% > of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access > this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter > will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing > Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] > > How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming > API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? > > -- > Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc > API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi > Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list > Change your membership to this group: > http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk > -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
[twitter-dev] Re: Twitter + Gnip Partnership
Ryan, The Gnip blog post states: [QUOTE]Twitter Decahose. This volume-based product is comprised of 10% of the full firehose. Starting today, developers who want to access this sample rate will access it via Gnip instead of Twitter. Twitter will also begin to transition non-display developers with existing Twitter Gardenhose access over to Gnip.[/QUOTE] How does this affect the basic statuses/sample method of the Streaming API? Are you discontinuing it? If so, when? -- Twitter developer documentation and resources: http://dev.twitter.com/doc API updates via Twitter: http://twitter.com/twitterapi Issues/Enhancements Tracker: http://code.google.com/p/twitter-api/issues/list Change your membership to this group: http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk
