I would like to see the U2UG look in a bigger way at MultiValue
industry affiliations and how our niche of the industry can play ball
and be more visible and figure out how to play with industry
organizations outside of the MV space as well as within. Just my two
cents.
There is a
...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brutzman
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:14 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment - The I-Beam
I learned about the I-Beam of Interpersonal Communications at a
ToastMasters meeting.
The idea is to stop using the word you
...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brett Callacher
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:35 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment - The I-Beam
Actually Robert, I think English does have this word. You just used it - the
rather unfashionable 'one'.
Brett
...
:)
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brutzman
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:14 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment - The I-Beam
I
In a message dated 3/21/2011 3:43:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
da...@dacono.com.au writes:
First Fft2001 Can we have your name. How do we know that you are not
someone from a competitor like Oracle trying to make Rocket look bad.
Secondly the focus on money is pointless. We don't need
In a message dated 3/21/2011 4:53:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
No, this whole thing has got well beyond tedious now, if you haven't got
the
point yet that Rocket spend money on U2UG rather than give money to it -
and
that the board want is this way -
In a message dated 3/21/2011 6:13:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
da...@dacono.com.au writes:
Members particularly new members don't know if Will is working for jBase
or Intersystems or other competitors, so being upfront with who you are
clears the air for everyone in discussions and
-
boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of fft2...@aol.com
Sent: 23 March 2011 5:39 AM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message dated 3/21/2011 3:43:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
da...@dacono.com.au writes:
First Fft2001 Can we have
Got it. I understand now. cheers! --dawn
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 8:12 PM, David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au wrote:
Hi Dawn
I was raising an issue of etiquette to put names to emails so that everyone
knows who they are dealing with and it is transparent that there are no
hidden agendas.
I'm not telling people, I'm telling a company.
Rocket wants something out of U2UG but won't give it the financial backing
it needs.
That's not productive.
Can you please scream a lot because everybody loves it :)
The problem with that point of view is that you don't know what Rocket
I don't see why memberships must be free in the first place. Every user
group i have been involved in required dues to be paid in order to fund meeting
places. Why does any company need to fund anything that is strictly user
oriented? You are receiving a user group service, which is free
The user group is for the users. If any user has an idea that we can put into
a business plan then we can put it to Rocket and Rocket will respond on the
merits of the plan. What is difficult at the moment is what we can do.
Rocket advertises the user group in its emails, at the U2
The issue with a paid group is, as you say, the need to give value for the
subscription which needs a serious investment of time from someone to generate
that value. At present we all struggle to give more than an hour or two to the
group, I don't see where the time is going to come from for
On 3/21/2011 3:22 AM, David Jordan wrote:
The user group is for the users. If any user has an idea that we can put into
a business plan then we can put it to Rocket and Rocket will respond on the
merits of the plan. What is difficult at the moment is what we can do.
Rocket advertises the
Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
The user group is for the users. If any user has an idea that we can put into a
business plan then we can put it to Rocket and Rocket will respond on the
merits of the plan. What is difficult at the moment is what we can do. Rocket
advertises the user group in its
: Friday, March 18, 2011 8:44 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment - The I-Beam
Hi Bill,
First, I believe what you say. I just find it hard to accept that
ToastMasters, a fine and well-respected organization, would want everyone to
always say I
-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 11:21 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
The problem with that point of view is that you don't know what Rocket wants
from U2UG nor do you know what backing they give already
First Fft2001 Can we have your name. How do we know that you are not someone
from a competitor like Oracle trying to make Rocket look bad.
Secondly the focus on money is pointless. We don't need money we need ideas.
If anyone has a good idea and it needs some money from Rocket to make it
Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of David Jordan
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 6:44 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
First Fft2001 Can we have your name. How do we know
Thanks Ron
Not knowing raises concerns of what are the motives behind the emails. Will
probably means well, but misunderstands what Rocket is doing for the U2UG and
some of his comments are unfair to the people involved.
David
___
U2-Users mailing
@listserver.u2ug.org
Cc: u2-users u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Sent: Sun, Mar 20, 2011 11:21 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
The problem with that point of view is that you don't know what Rocket wants
from U2UG nor do you know what backing they give already. As I
David -- This is Will who was on the original U2UG board with us --
seems like a long time ago, eh? --dawn
On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:43 PM, David Jordan da...@dacono.com.au wrote:
First Fft2001 Can we have your name. How do we know that you are not someone
from a competitor like Oracle
Hi Dawn
I was raising an issue of etiquette to put names to emails so that everyone
knows who they are dealing with and it is transparent that there are no hidden
agendas. Not everyone knows who Will is as he has a meaningless email and he
signs off with W. George would not know that Will
Guys
Can we reign this one in a bit: it's starting to get personal.
That's against the spirit of this list.
Brian
___
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U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org
http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
On 19/03/11 20:14, fft2...@aol.com wrote:
Rather that if Rocket would provide a budget for outreach, then the U2UG
could do outreach.
I thought you said you WEREN'T telling other people what to do!
Who is U2UG? Is it the board? Is it the members? You *are* telling other
people what to do.
Sheesh, you guys. You were both on the board IIRC when we discussed
whether to pursue setting up as a legal entity in the US and/or
elsewhere. We decided not to do it then. Obviously that could be
discussed again, but I would not fund such an organization if I were
Rocket, and I do not see a
A little correction--I see that my first sentence made little sense
after I edited it incorrectly. I intended to say something like
Because I am no longer a significant user of UniData as I once was, I
hesitate to pipe up ...
--dawn
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Dawn Wolthuis
In a message dated 3/20/2011 11:18:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
antli...@youngman.org.uk writes:
I repeat. You yourself said that you weren't telling other people what
to do. Then PLEASE DON'T!
Please STOP TELLING ROCKET TO GIVE MONEY TO U2UG.
Please STOP TELLING U2UG TO SPEND THE
In a message dated 3/20/2011 11:43:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dw...@tincat-group.com writes:
Would any good come from expanding to become the MVUG? Even when I
write that, I think it is likely a bad idea, given that Spectrum could
fill that role instead, perhaps (but Spectrum is a for
Let's be clear about this - the support that we have asked for has been
provided. There is nothing that we are being held back from doing due to
lack of support from Rocket.
What the group needs is not support from Rocket, we have that, it is the
active participation of U2 users willing to put
In a message dated 3/18/2011 4:27:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
antli...@youngman.org.uk writes:
On 18/03/11 22:48, fft2...@aol.com wrote:
The element that says you... you... some personality trait you are
perverse you have an axe to grind.
That's ad hominem. If you have an issue
In a message dated 3/19/2011 1:46:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Outreach: fft2...@aol.com seems to think that this is what the user group
is
about 'Outreach. Outreach. and Outreach.' The current board (and the
last
one) would probably disagree
Because I am no longer a significant user of UniData as I once was, I
will pipe up on this question about what I see as the most important
role of the U2UG. When the idea came to me to work with folks to get
this off the ground, my thinking was that it would be useful to have
such an organization
Tony
As always, you make some good points.
I think maybe we I was wrong to talk about 'marketing' - a better word would
have been 'awareness'. That's what we (U2UG) have to get to grips with, and
haven't yet.
One of the questions I hear all too often - and I'm sure others on the list
do as well
On 15/03/2011 20:04, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
br...@brianleach.co.uk writes:
Plus of course, since we don't charge
fees, we don't have any budget to advertise our presence!
Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a
Dan raise some interesting questions and I thought I would put down some answer
below to the points he raised. However the issue here is not the effectiveness
of the board, but we as a community. After a number of years as second fiddle
through Informix and IBM, we have all developed a siege
In a message dated 3/18/2011 4:24:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
A big part of the reason is that the user group is not a properly
constituted organisation in the sense of being a corporation or other
legal
entity that can hold money. Whilst
Not relevant.
Rocket can provide a *budget* item, which the U2UG could *direct* without
the U2UG ever actually holding the money.
Speaking as a member of the U2 user group board I think I represent the
views of the whole board when I say that we have no issues whatsoever with
the support
In a message dated 3/18/2011 10:23:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Speaking as a member of the U2 user group board I think I represent the
views of the whole board when I say that we have no issues whatsoever with
the support that we receive from Rocket.
On 18/03/2011 17:53, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote:
Any group is only as effective as the resources they have at their
disposal, including money. So yes, without money I'm going to be pointing
fingers
at Rocket to ask, where's the financial support Rocket?
Are you being
In a message dated 3/18/2011 1:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Are you being deliberately perverse or do you have some axe to grind with
Rocket?
Yes be sure to throw an ad hominem attack in there to try to convince the
reading audience not to listen.
On 18/03/2011 21:49, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/18/2011 1:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Are you being deliberately perverse or do you have some axe to grind with
Rocket?
Yes be sure to throw an ad hominem attack
In a message dated 3/18/2011 3:34:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
On 18/03/2011 21:49, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/18/2011 1:02:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Are you being
I learned about the I-Beam of Interpersonal Communications at a ToastMasters
meeting.
The idea is to stop using the word you altogether. Easier said than done.
The beauty of the I-Beam is that it removes blaming others.
Thus...
I wish that Rocket would see that 123 and then did
Bill:
My wife has reminded me of this fact for years!I hardly know what
the word you means anymore. :-)
Bill
On 3/18/2011 5:14 PM, Bill Brutzman wrote:
I learned about the I-Beam of Interpersonal Communications at
...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brutzman
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:14 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment - The I-Beam
I learned about the I-Beam of Interpersonal Communications at a ToastMasters
meeting
Hi Bill,
First, I believe what you say. I just find it hard to accept that
ToastMasters, a fine and well-respected organization, would want
everyone to always say I, and never say you. Personally, if someone
I was dealing with constantly said I this and I that, I would tune
them out very
br...@brianleach.co.uk writes:
Plus of course, since we don't charge fees, we don't
have any budget to advertise our presence!
From: fft
So I think there is really an enormous amount of
outreach that could be done, which isn't. I don't know
why that is.
It's simple. Outreach
In a message dated 3/17/2011 9:57:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
3xk547...@sneakemail.com writes:
There is simply not enough reward for individuals in this
market for user group members to champion the MV platform to a
wide audience of relational
I have to agree with Tony on this. It takes
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Dan McGrath
Sent: Tuesday, 15 March 2011 9:13 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
Hi all,
I've posted an open letter
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:17:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ro...@stamina.com.au writes:
I mean, it is
good for Tri-Sys, as they will generate a list of end users to solicit,
but I'd suggest it is unlikely that a VAR is going to make his customer
list public ...
Ross I think you're
On 16/03/2011 06:36, fft2...@aol.com fft2...@aol.com wrote:
Ross I think you're right there.
I think what we'll see is a slow accumulation of sites based on an employee
mentioning it, or a consultant, or ex-employee. But not the VAR.
And I think for the very reason that you suggest, that
In a message dated 3/16/2011 1:10:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
george.l...@aptsolutions.net writes:
Firstly the overwhelming majority of U2 end user sites do not have
technical
staff, even if they have an IT department that department knows nothing
about U2 whatsoever. They run an
-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of
fft2...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:23 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
In a message
Hi all,
I've posted an open letter regarding the U2UG elections to the nominees. I'd
love to see more dialogue around these elections as I feel I don't really
know what I'm voting for when I place my votes.
http://u2tech.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/u2ug-elections-2011/
Along with this, I also
] On Behalf Of Dan McGrath
Sent: 15 March 2011 10:13
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
Hi all,
I've posted an open letter regarding the U2UG elections to the nominees. I'd
love to see more dialogue around these elections as I feel I don't really
know
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
br...@brianleach.co.uk writes:
Plus of course, since we don't charge
fees, we don't have any budget to advertise our presence!
Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a budget?
___
U2-Users
On 15/03/11 20:04, fft2...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
br...@brianleach.co.uk writes:
Plus of course, since we don't charge
fees, we don't have any budget to advertise our presence!
Why isn't Rocket themselves giving a budget?
Let's
: Tue, Mar 15, 2011 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
On 15/03/11 20:04, fft2...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/15/2011 5:10:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
br...@brianleach.co.uk writes:
Plus of course, since we don't charge
fees, we don't have any
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] U2UG Elections 2010 - Request For Comment
If as one person remarked, he is the only one in a sea of twenty
multi-value
employees who knows about U2UG or is a member, than I would humbly
suggest that it doesn't.
In the vast majority of the multi
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