Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Giannis Koutsoubos
1.5 port https://github.com/koutsoub/wicket/tree/component_queuing_1.5 https://github.com/koutsoub/wicket/tree/component_queuing_1.5 -- View this message in context: http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Free-wicket-from-component-hierarchy-hell-tp3027705p3226581.html Sent from the Users

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Jeremy Thomerson
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Can we bargain about this? Say, also wicket auto ajax enclosure and both into 1.4-x This made me laugh. What is the other side of the bargain? What does the giving party get in return? :) Apache is

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Makundi
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/4968160827_b742a7448a_z.jpg ..hrm.. putting that aside, did you give it a test drive? ** Martin 2011/1/20 Jeremy Thomerson jer...@wickettraining.com: On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Can we bargain

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Jeremy Thomerson
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: ..hrm.. putting that aside, did you give it a test drive? No, I haven't. Because keeping the two hierarchies in sync has never been a problem on any project that I worked on. Typically, the

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Jim Pinkham
I'm not a committer, just a normal 1.5 user concerned about bloat. For what it's worth, I took a few minutes to actually look at the change (MarkupContainer as you'd expect) and I can see that if you don't use the new queue methods, the only a memory overhead is the *static* QUEUE (nothing extra

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Jeremy Thomerson
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Jim Pinkham pinkh...@gmail.com wrote: I still don't think it's necessary, and wonder if it might actually be counter-productive to have more than one way to learn for new adopters. If it goes forward, I don't suppose there's much precedent for taking

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Grigorov
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Giannis Koutsoubos kouts...@gmail.comwrote: 1.5 port https://github.com/koutsoub/wicket/tree/component_queuing_1.5 https://github.com/koutsoub/wicket/tree/component_queuing_1.5 Thanks, Giannis! -- View this message in context:

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Grigorov
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4089/4968160827_b742a7448a_z.jpg ..hrm.. putting that aside, did you give it a test drive? Martin, I know you started the thread about this idea last time. I'm wondering

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Makundi
Quote from Igor http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Free-wicket-from-component-hierarchy-hell-td3027705i160.html If in doubt, there is always getMarkupSettings().setAllowComponentAutoHierarchy(false); there will be no such method. +1 for not making this part of core. ..hrm..

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Grigorov
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Quote from Igor http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Free-wicket-from-component-hierarchy-hell-td3027705i160.html If in doubt, there is always

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Makundi
http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Free-wicket-from-component-hierarchy-hell-td3027705i160.html If in doubt, there is always getMarkupSettings().setAllowComponentAutoHierarchy(false); there will be no such method. +1 for not making this part of core. I mean for yes making part

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread James Carman
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: The largest production I am responsible for is stuck with wicket.version1.4.9/wicket.version  because some of the later releases have not been monotonically improving. So we are stuck with some patches

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Igor Vaynberg
so you only have one place to fix it in -igor On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: The largest production I am responsible for is stuck with

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread James Carman
I'm actually looking at it now. The markup changed between 1.4.5 and 1.4.6, so there must be some other reason that I stayed with 1.4.9 (assuming laziness wasn't it). :) On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: so you only have one place to fix it in

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-20 Thread Martin Makundi
(assuming laziness wasn't it). :) We are not lazy, we are just very busy ;) ** Martin On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: so you only have one place to fix it in -igor On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 1:43 PM, James Carman

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-19 Thread Martin Makundi
Can we bargain about this? Say, also wicket auto ajax enclosure and both into 1.4-x? ** Martin 2011/1/18 Jeremy Thomerson jer...@wickettraining.com: I agree.  I'm -0 in general, and definitely -1 for 1.4 and -0.9 for 1.5. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:54 AM, Martijn Dashorst

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Giannis Koutsoubos
Jira issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-3335 https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-3335 -- View this message in context: http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Free-wicket-from-component-hierarchy-hell-tp3027705p3221292.html Sent from the Users forum mailing list

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Martin Grigorov
This wont go in Wicket 1.5. If there are no issues then most probably it will be included in 1.6 Thanks ! On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Giannis Koutsoubos kouts...@gmail.comwrote: Jira issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/WICKET-3335

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Martin Makundi
Hi! We would like to see it in 1.4, if possible. ** Martin 2011/1/18 Martin Grigorov mgrigo...@apache.org: This wont go in Wicket 1.5. If there are no issues then most probably it will be included in 1.6 Thanks ! On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Giannis Koutsoubos

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Martin Grigorov
I don't take decisions alone but I'd vote -1 for 1.4.x. 1.4.x is the stable version and I don't want to compromise it with feature that is neither a regression nor a security hole. Please port the patch to 1.5/trunk and then we can talk about adding it in early 1.5.x versions. 1.5-RC1 will be

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Martin Makundi
I vote +1 for also 1.4.x because this feature does not compromise anything, it is just an alternate way of adding components. ** Martin 2011/1/18 Martin Grigorov mgrigo...@apache.org: I don't take decisions alone but I'd vote -1 for 1.4.x. 1.4.x is the stable version and I don't want to

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Martijn Dashorst
-1 for 1.4.x as well. No need to add this to current wicket. If it is so important, wicket is open source, and you can readily port it yourself. Martijn On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Martin Grigorov mgrigo...@apache.org wrote: I don't take decisions alone but I'd vote -1 for 1.4.x. 1.4.x

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Martijn Dashorst
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Martin Grigorov mgrigo...@apache.org wrote: Please port the patch to 1.5/trunk and then we can talk about adding it in early 1.5.x versions. I would be wary about adding this to 1.5 as well (that is -1 for 1.5). 1.6 will be a fine place for this to get ironed

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-18 Thread Jeremy Thomerson
I agree. I'm -0 in general, and definitely -1 for 1.4 and -0.9 for 1.5. On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:54 AM, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Martin Grigorov mgrigo...@apache.org wrote: Please port the patch to 1.5/trunk and then we can talk

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2011-01-14 Thread Giannis Koutsoubos
I've done some work based on Igor's implementation of component queuing. It can be found here : https://github.com/koutsoub/wicket/tree/component-queuing https://github.com/koutsoub/wicket/tree/component-queuing The code is written against the 1.4.x branch, i'm also working on making it

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:49:32 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: Are you moving a field from one form to another? But that does change the semantics, doesn't it? If it doesn't, why are there two forms? Both forms edit one particular object (say a Person). They just

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread James Carman
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: So either there is a difference between the forms (different submit method maybe?), then this move would make a semantic/behavioral difference and needs to be done in code. As I said, the two forms edit different

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:17:38 -0800 Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: i wonder if queuing can actually replace icomponentresolver and auto-adding. i wonder if after onbeforerender we can do what unqueing does now, parse the markup, find any missing components, and insert them.

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:16:00 -0800 Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: the difficult part is that doing this to complex pages is...difficult. in the example above it is easy to see the two components that need to be renested. but, in complex pages there can be 20 components that need

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 07:31:28 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: So either there is a difference between the forms (different submit method maybe?), then this move would make a

RE: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Frank Silbermann
What were the reasons for requiring the hierarchies to match in the original design of Wicket? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread James Carman
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: That's exactly my point :-) This is not a good example to allow queuing, because there's no gain. Either there is an important difference between the two forms, then it doesn't make sense to queue *above* the

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Igor Vaynberg
i can only hazard a guess, but if i did it would be that it was the simplest and cleanest solution that made sense. that is always a good starting point. -igor On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 6:19 AM, Frank Silbermann frank.silberm...@fedex.com wrote: What were the reasons for requiring the hierarchies

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Igor Vaynberg
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:16:00 -0800 Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: the difficult part is that doing this to complex pages is...difficult. in the example above it is easy to see the two components that

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-10 Thread Igor Vaynberg
you guys are both making an argument against queuing, and against each-other. paradox. -igor On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:08 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 07:31:28 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 3:49 AM,

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
Hi, no offense meant, but the rhetoric in this thread is getting more and more ridiculous. Chicken? Component hierarchy hell? Seriously? At most maybe component hierarchy slight annoyance. I am not at all convinced that this is a good idea. In my opinion, one of the strongest and best points

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
I frankly don't see any way to have this auto-hierarchy stuff without getting lots of unnecessary ambiguity and sources of bugs. I totally agree with what Eelco wrote below, and what someone else said about the Python way of having only *one* way to do *one* thing. Would you be happy if there

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Hi! So far, I have often heard about people not liking the requirement to match the code hierarchy in the markup. Most (not all!) of them have never actually used Wicket (I know this doesn't apply to Martin). Not once have I seen a convincing productive(!) example of where it was an actual

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:20:12 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: I frankly don't see any way to have this auto-hierarchy stuff without getting lots of unnecessary ambiguity and sources of bugs. I totally agree with what Eelco wrote below, and what someone else

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:23:27 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Hi! So far, I have often heard about people not liking the requirement to match the code hierarchy in the markup. Most (not all!) of them have never actually used Wicket (I know this doesn't apply

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Hi! Coding friction? Yes. Every time I need to look at somebody else's code and try to figure out what exactly they did. Ah.. so you are trying to solve your problem probably from the wrong end? If you have bad warriors give them plastic swords so they can hurt nobody? Training, Coding dojos,

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
...@koodaripalvelut.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:55 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? It's just the buzz, not the reality. Unfortunately often CSS doesn't quite cut it: * http

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 14:21:46 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Here we finally come to an actual argument about this: Panel is not reusable enough because it has its own markup. If I override its markup, it stops working. Frank wrote in another message how to deal

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:01:28 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Hi! Coding friction? Yes. Every time I need to look at somebody else's code and try to figure out what exactly they did. Ah.. so you are trying to solve your problem probably from the wrong end?

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Vitaly Tsaplin
In simple cases it makes no difference. It makes real difference with some complex widgets (for example search components) that must be reused on many pages and they should render differently on each page depending on how much space and what context they are in. I don't like duplicating code

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Also making skins for different devices / screen sizes becomes easier. ** Martin 2010/11/9 Vitaly Tsaplin vitaly.tsap...@gmail.com: In simple cases it makes no difference. It makes real difference with some complex widgets (for example search components) that must be reused on many pages and

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? It's just the buzz, not the reality. Unfortunately often CSS doesn't quite cut it: * http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/ HTML shouldn't really be used for lookfeel and the size and placement of components can perfectly be

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
your proposal is to wicket, what auto-generating-java-servlet-code is to a JSP (~ what a tied-and-deciding-designer-code was to a programmer-code in the past) that is, simply going back to hell :) why don't you stay on JSP domain, instead, sir? Please have some patience, just watch and see

RE: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Frank Silbermann
constructor-constructor. /Frank -Original Message- From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:55 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Hi! I don't think there is a substitute for coding skills/talent ;))) There isn't. That's not the point. So far your argument seems to be #1 I don't like this and #2 those who don't agree with you aren't good coders. Bad coding was your argument, not mine ;) I simply don't allow bad coders

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:05:39 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: I think we need to try to put our heads together on this one. I don't necessarily think this approach is the best, but I haven't really had a chance to wrap my head around it yet, frankly. Do we really think

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread manuelbarzi
your proposal is to wicket, what auto-generating-java-servlet-code is to a JSP (~ what a tied-and-deciding-designer-code was to a programmer-code in the past) that is, simply going back to hell :) why don't you stay on JSP domain, instead, sir? On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 1:47 PM, Matthias Keller

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Matthias Keller
Hi Martin Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? HTML shouldn't really be used for lookfeel and the size and placement of components can perfectly be defined using CSS classes. Matt On 2010-11-09 13:34, Martin Makundi wrote: Also making skins for different devices / screen sizes

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
For what it's worth, I agree with these sentiments. I am not jazzed about this whole auto hierarchy idea. I too like the predictability of Wicket and I don't mind staying within the confines of a strict hierarchy. I've kept quiet until now because I really don't have the time to jump into this

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 7:49 AM, manuelbarzi manuelba...@gmail.com wrote: why don't you stay on JSP domain, instead, sir? Let's keep it civil here folks. Can we agree to disagree without being disagreeable? - To unsubscribe,

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread manuelbarzi
may it be enough just create an independent simple html-code-processor-to-wicket-java-code-tool, that would auto-generate that tedious code you would like to avoid? a simple java-class-processor-tool may help for that... possible an eclipse-wicket-plugin-tool, if it doesn't already exists... On

RE: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Frank Silbermann
away? the proper question to try first is, What is the Wicket way of solving my problem? -Original Message- From: Carl-Eric Menzel [mailto:cmen...@wicketbuch.de] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:12 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? It's just the buzz, not the reality. Unfortunately often CSS doesn't quite cut it: * http://blog.iconara.net/2007/09/21/the-failure-of-css/ HTML shouldn't really be used

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
So instead of asking, How can we make Wicket different so that my problem will go away? the proper question to try first is, What is the Wicket way of solving my problem? That's not how proggress is made... ** Martin -Original Message- Fro

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Grigorov
-constructor. /Frank -Original Message- From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:55 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? It's

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: That's not how proggress is made... Well, it's at least a sane place to start. Figuring out how Wicket can be used as-is to solve your problem lets you know if it's really a problem or not. If this can

RE: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Frank Silbermann
] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:23 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell So instead of asking, How can we make Wicket different so that my problem will go away? the proper question to try first is, What is the Wicket way of solving my problem

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
That's not how proggress is made... Well, it's at least a sane place to start.  Figuring out how Wicket can be used as-is to solve your problem lets you know if it's really a problem or not. I've been dabbling with Wicket for 2,5 years now, and I have now finally come up with this request

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
to be a problem, but its limitations need some alleviation ;) ** Martin -Original Message- From: Martin Makundi [mailto:martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:23 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell So instead

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 17:23:18 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: So instead of asking, How can we make Wicket different so that my problem will go away? the proper question to try first is, What is the Wicket way of solving my problem? That's not how proggress

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Well.. that's what we are doing, at runtime. ** Martin 2010/11/9 manuelbarzi manuelba...@gmail.com: may it be enough just create an independent simple html-code-processor-to-wicket-java-code-tool, that would auto-generate that tedious code you would like to avoid? a simple

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
[mailto:martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:55 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? It's just the buzz, not the reality. Unfortunately often CSS doesn't quite cut

RE: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread John Owen
:06 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell I think we need to try to put our heads together on this one. I don't necessarily think this approach is the best, but I haven't really had a chance to wrap my head around it yet, frankly. Do we really think

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: I've been dabbling with Wicket for 2,5 years now, and I have now finally come up with this request for the core wicketeers to show us the correct way to patch this particular issue. I'm not necessarily

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
At the same time, you have not responded to valid criticisms like the problems with enabledInHierarchy (at least I haven't seen any such response). @Carl-Erik Reason why I haven't commented your enabledInHierarchy comment is because it would not afect it in any way. I hope the proposition

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Frank Silbermann frank.silberm...@fedex.com wrote: If the component hierarchy can be changed without changing behavior or semantics, then why are the components in a hierarchy to begin with? Why aren't all the components being moved around already siblings at

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
You could do that, but I think Martin is trying to take it a step further allowing you to have an arbitrary hierarchy in your markup and just figure it out at runtime.  Wicket doesn't care what order you add stuff to the page/component as long as they're all on the same level within the

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Yes, and if  they are at different levels in the hierarchy, Wicket can figure that out also, at runtime. What happens if a sub-component changes one of the ids of one of its components that it contains?

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Hi! What happens if a sub-component changes one of the ids of one of its components that it contains?  Is that then going to break your page because it's going to grab that id from you? Igor explained that # Components can be queued to any container, and can only be added to the hierarchy

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 17:46:13 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: @Carl-Erik Reason why I haven't commented your enabledInHierarchy comment is because it would not afect it in any way. I hope the proposition will be clear when we have it ready. We are working on

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:51:49 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Frank Silbermann frank.silberm...@fedex.com wrote: If the component hierarchy can be changed without changing behavior or semantics, then why are the components in a hierarchy

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
one of the nice things of wicket is that java-code (programmer) and html-code (designer) are quite independent. only watching a wicket-java-file does a programmer deduce the structure and behaviour of the corresponding view, both things, without fully depending on inspecting html for

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 18:04:44 +0200 Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Igor explained that # Components can be queued to any container, and can only be added to the hierarchy that stems from that container, thereby solving the security requirement

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
Say you have two forms on one panel (don't know if this is the best example or not, but here goes).  You want to move a field from one panel to another.  You'd have to do that in code with the traditional approach.  With the queued approach, you'd just queue all your components to the parent

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Igor explained that # Components can be queued to any container, and can only be added to the hierarchy that stems from that container, thereby solving the security requirement

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
What happens if a sub-component changes one of the ids of one of its components that it contains?  Is that then going to break your page because it's going to grab that id from you? Also depends what you mean by a component. A panel sitting on a panel has its own markup so it won't grab

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: When fragments are added they materialize as natural markup at the junction point? I don't know the answer to that. I'm asking, myself. :) Just trying to make sure the queue approach doesn't break with

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: I think you misunderstood Frank's point. Why are the components in a hierarchy in the first place, if the hierarchy can be changed without changing behavior or semantics? They can simply be flat in the parent then.

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
https://github.com/ivaynberg/wicket/tree/component-queuing Sorry, I was thinking for some reason that the depth-first search through the current component's hierarchy would actually traverse into subcomponent's markup, but I don't think it will.  It will stay within the current component's

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread manuelbarzi
Martin, isn't it all a matter of principles towards keeping a correct separation of concerns? one of the nice things of wicket is that java-code (programmer) and html-code (designer) are quite independent. only watching a wicket-java-file does a programmer deduce the structure and behaviour of

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
@Carl-Erik Reason why I haven't commented your enabledInHierarchy comment is because it would not afect it in any way. I hope the proposition will be clear when we have it ready. We are working on Igor's proposal. It will be interesting to see how you propose not affecting something that

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Sebastian
From my understanding the proposal works like this that you have a partially code controlled hierarchy of components when you need it for functional reasons (security, AJAX refresh, visibility, etc). You can define the parent of a component but technical you allow child components being nested

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Yeah ids must be unique per each level and ofcourse if you have markup like: div wicket:id=adiv wicket:id=a/div/div If you have code like: panel {  queue(a(a));  a.queue(a(a)); } This could be a

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Carl-Eric Menzel
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 11:33:31 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: Say you have two forms on one panel (don't know if this is the best example or not, but here goes). You want to move a field from one panel to another. You'd have to do that in code with the traditional

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Igor Vaynberg
so queue each formcomponet under the form they belong to. that way they cannot be moved outside the form. -igor On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 8:46 AM, James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: Yeah ids

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
PS: I think much of this controversy could have been streamlined by pointing to a concept-complete implementation or at least making a properly thought-out suggestion, instead of all the name-calling that went on. (Almost) No offense taken, just a suggestion for the future. My apologies. I am

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: Are you moving a field from one form to another? But that does change the semantics, doesn't it? If it doesn't, why are there two forms? Both forms edit one particular object (say a Person). They just edit

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Igor Vaynberg
Makundi [mailto:martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 6:55 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell Hi! Isn't this exactly the reason we've got CSS? It's just the buzz, not the reality. Unfortunately often CSS

RE: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Frank Silbermann
] On Behalf Of James Carman Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 10:34 AM To: users@wicket.apache.org Subject: Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: I think you misunderstood Frank's point. Why are the components

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: so queue each formcomponet under the form they belong to. that way they cannot be moved outside the form. That's what happens in code not markup. You could potentially change what gets edited by the form merely by

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Igor Vaynberg
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Carl-Eric Menzel cmen...@wicketbuch.de wrote: On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 10:51:49 -0500 James Carman ja...@carmanconsulting.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 10:48 AM, Frank Silbermann frank.silberm...@fedex.com wrote: If the component hierarchy can be changed

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Martin Makundi
That's what happens in code not markup.  You could potentially change what gets edited by the form merely by moving fields around in the markup. With compoundpropertymodels yes if you don't restrict components inside a form this can happen. For good or for bad. For security reasons in

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread Igor Vaynberg
um. no. queued components cannot be moved out of their parent. so if you queued field1 under form1 and the designer moves the tag tied to field1 outside the tag tied to form1 you will get the same error you would get now. -igor On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 8:50 AM, James Carman

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Martin Makundi martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote: For security reasons in general, you might want to use: formA.queue(formAstuff); formB.queue(formBstuff); But then you're right back where you started. Why not just add and not queue?

Re: Free wicket from component hierarchy hell

2010-11-09 Thread James Carman
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: um. no. queued components cannot be moved out of their parent. so if you queued field1 under form1 and the designer moves the tag tied to field1 outside the tag tied to form1 you will get the same error you would get

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