A visual demonstration would impress the masses.
Use a real ecat and a dummy ecat with the same input power to inflate a
balloon
The real ecat will inflate the balloon faster.
Harry
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:42 AM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
I've seen it claimed by a rather emotionally committed skeptic -- with
some background in conducting CF runs with calorimetry -- that an adequate
19th century technology water-bath style calorimetry of the E-Cat HT would
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:38 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
OK, I'll ask the question a different way:
Is there any explanation offered, even if only in an interview, by the
researchers as to why they did not use normal calorimetry?
In the December run, the experiment was
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
They used perfectly normal calorimetry.
Normal to me means common. But I have not seen calorimetry performed with
IR thermometry. Do you have some references for where it has been used?
There is not the slightest
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:01 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Dennis,
I don't think it would be quite so easy for Rossi to perform the
experiment that you propose.
It's amazing the excuses true believers contrive to explain why inferior
experiments were used. If the thing is to
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
The ECAT will need adjustment depending upon the environment into which it
operates. This is what should be expected.
Exactly, and controlled cooling provides a way to adjust it. Sitting in the
open air does not.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I have significant experience with flow calorimeters. I would say:
1. It would end up costing much more than a few hundred dollars.
True. But not more than 10k for an off-the-shelf unit. That sounds like a
bargain for
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry made
irrelevant the amount of energy observed to have been generated? In other
words,
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Extraordinary claims call for the most ordinary proof you can come up with.
That's true for true believers. For everyone else the usual saying
represents common sense, and the opinion of great thinkers from Pascal
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I still think that a standalone unplugged demo is the best approach - not
high wattage and fancy instruments and lots of wires and computer programs.
That would be nice, but evidently that would probably cause the
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Flow calorimetry has much to be said for it but it is more complicated and
less believable than this. A lot more can go wrong with it, and usually
does go wrong with it for the first several weeks.
It is both more
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I have thought about that. During the initial warm up phase you would get
an interesting result. After that, when it reaches a steady state, you
would maintain the entire body of water at a certain temperature for
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
It will take more than just a generator and an extension cord to close the
loop. Some form of energy storage will be required to do the job.
To close the loop with electricity, probably yes. But if you used
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
They only need to make their sponsors happy not Crude. I hope the best
for them.
Hey, if you're referring to me, I'm with you all the way on the
self-sustaining water-tank heating demo. So the insult is particularly
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I do not understand what you have in mind here. Nature allows us to do
some things and not others. We have to work with what nature allows, not
what we would wish for in an ideal universe.[...]
Obviously with more
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:18 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
The best proof is one that has the least possibility of error.
Or the least possibility of error that favors the ecat, or the least
possibility of tampering. An isolated ecat eliminates input tampering. A
heated tank of
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Indeed, making steam and using it to, say, drive a car across Italy
without stopping would be pretty damn convincing.
Nice to see you can envision a demo that would convince skeptics.
Unfortunately the actual demos don't
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
There was a time when this field desperately needed a standalone self
powered reactor to prove the reaction is real. That is because absolute
power was low, ranging from 5 to 100 W. However, now that Rossi has
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his
tea.
If you believe Rothwell and Roberson, skeptics will never have to concede,
because no application of cold fusion is obvious enough to make
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
If the device cannot self-power, it is still valuable with a lower COP,
the proverbial hot water or space heater -
A COP of 3 is not useful if the electricity was made with fossil fuels at
an efficiency of 1/3. That's a
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
If it is real it is the most important advance in technology since the
discovery of fire. If the scientific community is convinced it is real,
every industrial corporation and university will be hard at work on this.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
WHY are you so certain that wattmeters do not work?!?
You know that's not the objection.
There is no chance Rossi can fool one, and if the people doing the test
have any doubt about that, they can bring a portable
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote:
Portable generator is also fine and even better, because it leaves very
little room for tricks and doubt. But after 10 or so demonstrations we have
had only one portable generator and that also was brought by Rossi.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Nothing in the recent test was brought by Rossi. This test was a hands-off
black box test, exactly what the skeptics have been demanding. It seems
you will not take yes for an answer.
So much nonsense. The test was
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
Leading scam hypothesis does assume that Giuseppe Levi is a scammer and
he is as bad as Rossi. And he brought most of the instruments.
I see. And these other co-authors
On Jun 4, 2013, at 2:26 PM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
Leading scam hypothesis does assume that Giuseppe Levi is a scammer and he
is as bad as Rossi.
Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
That is true. The risk for Levi is negligible and he can always claim
ignorance.
The risk is that his reputation would be shattered. He would be forced to
retire at least.
So If Levi is making few dozens of kiloeuros extra money with Rossi
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:00 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:01 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
Dennis,
I don't think it would be quite so easy for Rossi to perform the experiment
that you propose
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:01 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
The ECAT will need adjustment depending upon the environment into which it
operates. This is what should
: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I have significant experience with flow calorimeters. I would say:
1. It would end up costing much more than a few hundred dollars.
True. But not more than 10k for an off
:03 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry made
irrelevant the amount
Wrong. The ECat at low gain would be valuable to the segment of the
population whose only affordable alternative is a resistance space heater
COP=1 versus LENR heater COP=3. Next is the home electric water heater. For
them, net power for heat is cut by two thirds. DoE says space heating and
water
Do you promise to accept the results if he uses one of these calorimeters? Why
do I think not?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:07 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon
cooling has not been
proven to work yet and may not work with the present design.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:06 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote, regarding a COP of 3:
Wrong. The ECat at low gain would be valuable to the segment of the
population whose only affordable alternative is a resistance space heater
COP=1 versus LENR heater COP=3.
There are not many people like that in the first world.
I wrote:
No matter how difficult it is to control the thing at higher COPs, methods
will be found, and then perfected.
This control problem only seems to be an issue with the high temperature
Hot Cat model. At moderate temperatures Rossi ran for long periods with
less input power, and a much
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:09 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
It will take more than just a generator
]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:18 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
The best proof is one that has the least possibility of error.
Or the least possibility of error that favors the ecat, or the least
possibility of tampering. An isolated ecat
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:15 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
There was a time when this field
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I still think that a standalone unplugged demo is the best approach - not high
wattage and fancy instruments and lots of wires and computer
: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:16 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his tea.
If you believe Rothwell and Roberson, skeptics will never
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:19 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
If the device cannotself-power, it is still valuable with a lower COP, the
proverbial hot water orspace
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
must be connected to the mains--bingo- if your process requires
electrical input you must have a high COP.
Where did that graph come from? Did you make it?
I have never heard of mechanical work from temperatures below 100 deg C.
By the way, I
: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
WHY are you so certain that wattmeters do not work?!?
You know that's not the objection.
There is no chance Rossi can fool one, and if the people doing the test have
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:22 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
Portable generator is also fine and even
]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote:
Leading scam hypothesis does assume that Giuseppe Levi is a scammer and he is
as bad as Rossi. And he brought most of the instruments.
I
Monday evening?
D2
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
must be connected to the mains--bingo- if your process requires electrical
input you must
and that must be available for
stable operation of the device.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 11:58 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
must be connected to the mains--bingo
are just one of many paths in the area of CF.
D2
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 12:17:10 -0400
Dennis, please look at the many descriptions that have been written about why
the COP must be beyond
OK, I guess it was not clear to me what you were pointing out. It had the
sound of sarcasm...my bad.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 12:33 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Peltiers give you direct heat electrical but you are lucky to get 5% in
the real world on those and that would mean a COP of 20 for a self
sustaining thing.
I believe that is 5% with high heat, such as the exhaust pipe of a truck.
Jed- do you
Sarcasm has no place in science. To me it is just telling a lie and laughing
about it.
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:02:11 -0400
OK, I guess it was not clear to me what you were pointing out
On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
I have never heard of mechanical work from temperatures below 100 deg C.
I recall reading on this list at one point that a Stirling engine could do
something along these lines. There is this post, which says something
If the device was in the 1 to 5 kW range, then a simple hot tub should work.
A typical 6 foot spa heats at about 1 degree F per hour at 1 kW. That, some
copper tubing coils, and a utility pole meter should be enough. If you really
wanted to be sure no extra wiring/power was going into it,
I don't think a couple hundred bucks would cover the spa-based system you
describe. On the cheap is relative.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:29 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
If the device was in the 1 to 5 kW range, then a simple hot tub should
work. A typical 6 foot spa heats at
OK, I'll ask the question a different way:
Is there any explanation offered, even if only in an interview, by the
researchers as to why they did not use normal calorimetry?
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:32 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think a couple hundred bucks would cover
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Is there any explanation offered, even if only in an interview, by the
researchers as to why they did not use normal calorimetry?
They used perfectly normal calorimetry. There is not the slightest chance
output is any less than 3 times input. There is
Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 1:29 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
If the device was in the 1 to 5 kW range, then a simple hot tub should work.
A typical 6 foot spa heats at about 1 degree F per
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Is there any explanation offered, even if only in an interview, by the
researchers as to why they did not use normal calorimetry?
They used perfectly normal calorimetry. There
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
If Rossi were to place his device into a tank of water much more heat
would be conducted away from the core.
I think the plan by Brian Ahern is to put the device in an air filled box
with a copper pipe wound around the outside or the inside wall, and
I would think that most of the $20K went to airfare, hotels and meals. you
can't expect the scientists to work for free.
-Mark
From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 9:42 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
I've seen it
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
There is nothing for them to explain.
That may be the case and if so one would not expect to see an explanation
in the paper itself. On the other hand, given the controversial
environment they might reasonably be expected to say something like the
@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
If Rossi were to place his device into a tank of water much more heat would be
conducted away from the core.
I think the plan by Brian Ahern is to put
Do the arithmetic, Mark.
Although it is true that a couple hundred bucks is only 1% of $20,000 and
that it is ridiculous think of the other 99% as going into technical
aspects alone, even if 90% of the budget were for overhead that would
still leave a budget of $2,000 for the technical aspects,
James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
Although it is true that a couple hundred bucks is only 1% of $20,000
and that it is ridiculous think of the other 99% as going into technical
aspects alone, even if 90% of the budget were for overhead . . .
I have significant experience with flow
heat being taken away by the fans
with no additional current into the resistors once the system got up to the
active region.
Fran
From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 2:21 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe
OK, so the take-away messages is:
No, the authors of the paper have not provided any rational for choosing
their form of calorimetry -- not even informally. Moreover, the claim that
adequate flow calorimetry for the E-Cat HT would cost 'a couple hundred
bucks' likely indicates pseudoskepticism.
there is none and leave a trail. Ralph Waldo Emerson
D2
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:01:20 -0400
Dennis,
I don't think it would be quite so easy for Rossi to perform the experiment
that you propose
. I think it prudent to wait and see if the 6
month test makes further improvements given the feedback from the recent
tests.
-Mark
From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 11:22 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
Do
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:40 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:
OK, so the take-away messages is:
No, the authors of the paper have not provided any rational for choosing
their form of calorimetry -- not even informally.
I do not see why they need to provide a rationale. The choice
R. W. Emerson wrote:
Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you
that you are wrong. There are always difficulties arising which tempt you
to believe that your critics are right. To map out a course of action and
follow it to an end requires courage..Do not go
I wrote:
It is not precise, but it is reliable, and accurate enough to prove the
point.
The point is, this is a huge effect. It runs at high temperatures and it is
at least three times input. McKubre needed a high precision flow
calorimeter because he was trying to measure an effect that
that a standalone unplugged demo is the best approach - not high
wattage and fancy instruments and lots of wires and computer programs.
D2
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 15:05:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
R. W. Emerson
the simplest measure of heat.
D2
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 15:21:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
I wrote:
It is not precise, but it is reliable, and accurate enough to prove the point.
The point is, this is a huge effect
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry made
irrelevant the amount of energy observed to have been generated? In other
words, even with more precise measurements the exact energy output couldn't
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 10:29:52 AM
For smaller units (1 to 100W), perhaps heating a tea pot would be
reasonable.
Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the cup of tea bet has passed
on.
(My forgetory will produce his name in about 10
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
do not try to take the quote out of the obvious intended context.
Sure, we get that. I was just ragging on extraordinary claims claim,
which I despise.
I still think that a standalone unplugged demo is the best approach - not
high wattage and fancy
Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the cup of tea bet
has passed on.
(My forgetory will produce his name in about 10 minutes while I'm
doing something else)
It wasn't tea .. it was a bet by a professor that would be paid off when a cold
fusion device delivered 1 kWh to the grid,
The reputed gain is so high - Rossi would be wise to forego calorimetry and
go directly to conversion of heat to electricity.
Here is the device that could do that - ORC in a small format. This device
is perfect for the HotCat.
http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/IT10_ORC_System.html
and check that.
D2
From: mgi...@gibbs.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 12:55:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry made
irrelevant the amount of energy observed to have been generated?
Yes. But power, not energy. If the difference
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 1:22:05 PM
And no, I don't think that they were over unity by more than an order
of magnitude- Only a factor of perhaps 6. I need to go back and
check that.
The COP was 6 (Dec) and 3 (March).
The order of magnitude was
bob park
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:16:16 -0700
From: a...@well.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the cup of tea bet
has passed on.
(My forgetory will produce his name in about 10 minutes while
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
yes, calorimetry is not needed IF you believe the claims, methods, and the
effect. As you may know, I don't doubt the reality of CF/LENR in general.
However, if you goal is to convince non-believer then it is best to avoid
systems where you have to
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Notice I did not say flow calorimetry was needed. Just heating a
container of water - pool, spa, teapot
I have thought about that. During the initial warm up phase you would get
an interesting result. After that, when it reaches a steady state, you
]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
The reputed gain is sohigh – Rossi would be wise to forego calorimetry and go
directly toconversion of heat to electricity.
Here is the device thatcould do that – ORC in a small format. This device is
perfect for theHotCat.
http://www.infinityturbine.com
Defkalion will be blowing steam. Who knows?
The last I heard Brillion was around 2:1 in liquid.
Perhaps it is time to step aside and let the commercial people do their thing.
D2
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:30:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
I wrote:
You do not need to measure flow rates if the effect is significant.
You don't need to measure it now. You have to depend on Drs. Stefan and
Boltzmann being right. As for convection, you just gotta look up the
numbers in an HVAC textbook.
I confused the issue a little here.
not Crude. I hope the best for them.
D2
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:46:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
Notice I did not say flow calorimetry was needed. Just heating
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
That is not what I want to hear.
You do not want to hear that the cell will go out of control and melt? It
will though, whether you want to hear that or not. It has already melted.
I do not understand what you have in mind here. Nature allows us to
DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
You may want to refigure that if you want to run for extended times- an
Olympic pool (likely overkill) has a volume of 2.5 million liters and some
are indoors and have covers.
That would be extremely noisy, to say the least. Changes in air
temperature,
that perhaps they were wrong in the beliefs. Not this group.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 5:03 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
You may want to refigure that if you want to run
David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
It will take more than just a generator and an extension cord to close the
loop. Some form of energy storage will be required to do the job.
Correctomundo. This will complicate matters. It probably means they need
batteries and inverters. As sure as
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:22 PM, DJ Cravens djcrav...@hotmail.com wrote:
yes, calorimetry is not needed IF you believe the claims, methods, and the
effect.
The claims are that the device produces significantly over unity, the
methods have been alluded to but Rossi is definitely not public with
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Indeed, making steam and using it to, say, drive a car across Italy
without stopping would be pretty damn convincing.
Not really. The skeptics would come up with a hundred reasons why that was
faked. They would say this was actually two identical electric
Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
Ah, now we have it ... it's the questions of reproducability and
controlability,
But these questions have no bearing on whether the effect is real or not.
During the Vanguard era of US rocket development in the 1950s, rockets were
extremely difficult to
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the cup of tea bet has
passed on.
Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his tea.
Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his
tea.
I'm hoping we can do something more dramatic, on a larger scale. Something
like what the Japanese authorities did to the notorious criminal Ishikawa
Goemon in 1594 would be
Dave,
It would be nice to get Infinity Turbine to donate a few weeks of testing time
on their ORC device which had been modified with a DC generator driving a bank
of Ultracaps.
The caps would be sized so that there is maybe 15 minutes of cushion in the
energy storage – but no
Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:
It would be nice to get Infinity Turbine to donate a few weeks of testing
time on their ORC device which had been modified with a DC generator
driving a bank of Ultracaps.
This would be nice. It would be a lot of fun. I personally would feel
gratified
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