Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Eric Walker]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:
>
> I personally think the patent system is fatally flawed, and I haven't the
> slightest sympathy for the idea of "intellectual property."
>

The conversation has moved on, but I should moderate the statement above, a
little.  I can think of some situations in which an injustice would be done
to an inventor.  An example is an inventor who puts a lot of his or her own
personal time and money into an invention and in the process discovers a
breakthrough, and then a better prepared competitor comes along and
implements the idea without having to have put up the initial costs.  So I
disagree with my earlier statement that IP law is inherently illegitimate.
 But I'm often struck by defenses of it that go beyond "let's not do
anything rash."

Creativity primarily involves putting a new spin on ideas that other people
came up with.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Eric Walker]

I think your reply address isn't configured to point to vortex-l.


> I hope Defkalion's technology is original. It very well may be. But if it
> is not, it is a shame that they did not simply pay Rossi earlier in 2011 so
> they could continue working together. Instead, if 2 or 3 is true, Rossi may
> be able to use legal means to stop them from using the tech without
> permission.
>

Regardless of whether Defkalion's technology is original or not, a series
of positive results would be a beautiful day for mankind.

Andrea Rossi has submitted patent applications and has obtained at least
one patent.  If he has been forthright with his applications, he will have
recourse to legal protection for any potential infringement.

I personally think the patent system is fatally flawed, and I haven't the
slightest sympathy for the idea of "intellectual property."  All kinds of
things are patented that you could have thought up yourself, and in the
process legal impediments are introduced into the creation of new
technology without which the process would be purely creative.  The system
is set up to permit large corporations to raise high barriers to entry, and
no legitimacy beyond that of money underlies the patent battles and the
patent trolls that one sees these days, because if you have enough money
you can purchase the patent bundles and hire the lawyers to enter into that
whole game.

The only part that ethics plays in any of this in my opinion relates to
one's desire to be law abiding, even when some areas of it are inherently
illegitimate.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

Here is a good example of someone who had their rights violated.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/676150--man-shocked-by-arrest-after-daughter-draws-picture-of-gun-at-school

This guy had his rights violated in a number of different ways. He was not a 
criminal. Those that were involved in his abduction and sexual assault are the 
criminals.

If a random person abducts a person and strips them naked it is a sexual 
assault. If a policeman does it for NO VALID REASON when no crime has been 
committed, it is a sexual assault too. There is no difference whatsoever.


I would have not left the police station, and would have demanded to stay in 
the cell until everyone involved in my ABDUCTION was put in the cell instead.

If they can arrest an individual for no valid reason, then logically that 
individual should be able to request to stay in their cell until the issue is 
settled. 


Of course due to the fact that the courts in this nation are biased against the 
rights of individuals, the man would probably have gotten in more trouble. But 
it would have been worth it. Even if his family suffered, he lost his job, or 
if his family got broken apart, it would have been worth it.

If people do not stand up for their rights now, their children my end up in 
even worse situations in the future. What if his daughter one day got arrested 
for her daughter drawing an image of a vitamin supplement bottle (some are 
pushing for supplements to be regulated like drugs) such as Co Enzyme Q10? It 
could happen.

If people don't start PEACEFULLY and NON-VIOLENTLY start demanding their rights 
be protected then before long we will have no rights at all.

This is why I want space exploration to happen ASAP. I am hoping some colony 
worlds might be a bit saner than our planet is today.

However, you and others will probably say the school and police were justified, 
because it was in the name of public safety or something. Well, as far as I 
know, the 2nd amendment is still in the constitution. 


If Rossi's rights have been violated by any company then he needs to stand up 
for himself. By doing so, he will also be standing up for all future inventors. 






 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

noone noone  wrote:
 
If I did decide to take money (if I thought it was the best way to fight 
against the company using my technology), I would let it be known to the courts 
that any money awarded to me would be instantly used to try and stop the 
activities of the party that stole my technology.

1. You can't talk in court. Only your lawyer can, and it has to be about the 
case.

2. They don't care what you use the money for.


I would also not allow the offending company to obtain a license agreement.

It would not be up to you. You can't make up laws as you go along.

 
I would tell the Judge flat out that I would rather be publicly drawn, hung, 
and quartered rather than sign the piece of paper.

Judges don't care what you think. You don't have to actually sign the paper for 
this to go into effect.

Bear in mind also that these are civil suits. Jail sentences and the police 
play no role in them. In that sense it is quite different from stealing actual 
property.


The world you are describing is a nightmare world, in my opinion. It is a world 
that does not deserve cold fusion technology. I hope the reality of things are 
not as horrible as you portray.
>

This is the real world. You do not appear to know much about business, 
contracts and civil lawsuits. There are good reasons why we do things the way 
we do. You should not assume that laws and customs that have been in place for 
centuries are "horrible." Sometimes they are dysfunctional or obsolete, but we 
have to be careful about changing long-standing institutions. The conservative 
attitude is justified. In this case, the system has protect the interests of 
customers, and it has to promote technological progress. The system cannot take 
into account only the intellectual property rights of the inventor, ignoring 
all other factors.

If Defkalion succeeds I expect it will eventually benefit Rossi tremendously. 
He will make hundreds of millions of dollars. Left to his own devices, he would 
probably not make any money. I doubt that Defkalion has taken anything from 
him, but even if they have, he will probably get more from them than he could 
ever earn by himself.

Don't fret about any of this. It will probably work out well for everyone. 
There will be barrels of money. Enough for everyone. In 10 years the dispute 
will be forgotten.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

Hello Jed,
Once again, everyone points out there will be plenty of money for everyone.

Everyone is obsessed with money.

I am not. 

The fact is if I was in a situation where I was an inventor and my technology 
was stolen, money would be the last thing on my mind. If I was forced to accept 
money, I would work with lawyers to try and find the best way to use it against 
the company that stole my technology. I would not care how much I had to 
benefit, or the world had to benefit.

I am in the real world. I realize I am not a law expert, but at the same time I 
know what is right and what is wrong. If I had a technology that was stolen, I 
would simply strive to do anything and everything to prevent the other company 
from being able to use my technology. I might fail, and they might be allowed 
to sell the technology. But I would do everything (that is peaceful and 
non-violent) to hinder that company for the rest of my life. Hopefully, I would 
at least slow down the proliferation of the stolen technology.

Once again, I am speaking about a hypothetical stolen technology.

Sadly, you and others seem to think the needs of the many are more important 
than the rights of the individual. That is how our sickening world works these 
days (for the most part). However, I hope that will change in the future. The 
rights of the individual must be protected at all cost, because otherwise life 
becomes meaningless. If I do not have my rights and freedoms protected, I might 
as well not be alive.

I do not agree about Rossi. One thing about Rossi is that he never gives up. He 
is also a very hard worker. I think he will be successful. 







 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

noone noone  wrote:
 
If I did decide to take money (if I thought it was the best way to fight 
against the company using my technology), I would let it be known to the courts 
that any money awarded to me would be instantly used to try and stop the 
activities of the party that stole my technology.

1. You can't talk in court. Only your lawyer can, and it has to be about the 
case.

2. They don't care what you use the money for.


I would also not allow the offending company to obtain a license agreement.

It would not be up to you. You can't make up laws as you go along.

 
I would tell the Judge flat out that I would rather be publicly drawn, hung, 
and quartered rather than sign the piece of paper.

Judges don't care what you think. You don't have to actually sign the paper for 
this to go into effect.

Bear in mind also that these are civil suits. Jail sentences and the police 
play no role in them. In that sense it is quite different from stealing actual 
property.


The world you are describing is a nightmare world, in my opinion. It is a world 
that does not deserve cold fusion technology. I hope the reality of things are 
not as horrible as you portray.
>

This is the real world. You do not appear to know much about business, 
contracts and civil lawsuits. There are good reasons why we do things the way 
we do. You should not assume that laws and customs that have been in place for 
centuries are "horrible." Sometimes they are dysfunctional or obsolete, but we 
have to be careful about changing long-standing institutions. The conservative 
attitude is justified. In this case, the system has protect the interests of 
customers, and it has to promote technological progress. The system cannot take 
into account only the intellectual property rights of the inventor, ignoring 
all other factors.

If Defkalion succeeds I expect it will eventually benefit Rossi tremendously. 
He will make hundreds of millions of dollars. Left to his own devices, he would 
probably not make any money. I doubt that Defkalion has taken anything from 
him, but even if they have, he will probably get more from them than he could 
ever earn by himself.

Don't fret about any of this. It will probably work out well for everyone. 
There will be barrels of money. Enough for everyone. In 10 years the dispute 
will be forgotten.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

I think there are critical aspects of Rossi's technology that are totally novel 
to cold fusion. Those are the ones that allow him to produce a practical amount 
of heat when no one else (that I am aware) has been able to do so. If these 
critical pieces of intellectual property have been stolen (I do not know if 
they have been or not) then I think he should do whatever it takes for him to 
stop any other company from using it without his permission.

I realize IP issues are complicated. But in Rossi's case there is SOMETHING 
that is allowing him to produce huge amounts of heat. I think this is his 
catalyst and perhaps the specific preperation and enrichment of the nickel 
powder. I doubt that anyone could say that they own these aspects of his 
technology, because otherwise I think they would have tried to bring about a 
robust cold fusion technology years ago.

This is not a joke. I am being serious. I not a very jovial person. I do NOT 
know if Rossi's intellectual property has been stolen or not. But from what I 
have read I cannot totally dismiss the possibility.

The fact is I've already hurt myself and my family with decisions I have made 
that were based on principles. I'm sitting here unable to get the medical care 
(at least not without going through countless hoops) I need (nothing life 
threatening) because of my decisions. It is also the reason why I'm single and 
never married. I refused to compromise on my morals, even when the so called 
"Christian" women were willing to.


I'm not a saint. I'm not perfect. I also do not claim that I've always stuck to 
every principle 100% of the time. I sin and I have to ask forgiveness. But I do 
my best to live an ethical life. If that hurts me financially or otherwise, I 
try to realize that you can't take with you anything when you are dead. You can 
only hope that you lived as ethically and morally as possible.




 From: David Roberson 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

I think that you should consider that Rossi and many before him are using 
technology that was derived by others.  It is seldom as simple as you seem to 
think when IP is being judicated.  I recall when the company I worked with at 
the time as well as its main competitor would periodically have a patent 
battle.  We all knew the game:  each company would list a number of patents 
that they held which they considered violated.  After a few lawyers were paid 
off, both sides would agree to allow the others to proceed with their 
production.
 
It is a joke to think that Rossi does not owe his design to the shoulders upon 
which he stands.  Look at all of the patents before him if you really think 
that his hands are totally clean.
 
You seem to think too much in black and white when business is always handled 
in shades of gray.  And I have a hard time believing that you really would 
rather see damage to everyone, including your family, in order to stand up for 
a principle that is not valid.
 
Please explain how Rossi can be sure that his IP has been stolen by anyone?  
The only way that a determination of this sort can be handled is after an 
extensive court battle where all of the important conversations, any technology 
transfers, or other happening are examined.  Are you knowledgeable of details 
that we have not been a party to?  You do recall Rossi making claims that DGT 
does not have any knowledge from him don't you?  What more do you require?
 
This entire discussion is a bit silly and is most likely someone's idea of a 
joke.
 
Dave


-Original Message-
From: noone noone 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time


I am not an expert at law, but I would strive to stop someone from selling my 
technology without permission even if it was a futile battle.

If I did decide to take money (if I thought it was the best way to fight 
against the company using my technology), I would let it be known to the courts 
that any money awarded to me would be instantly used to try and stop the 
activities of the party that stole my technology. For example, I would make 
products and give them away to stop people from purchasing products from the 
other company. Or I would wage a PR campaign against the other company. Also, a 
possibility would be to use the money to hire more lawyers to make the life of 
the company as miserable as possible.


I would also not allow the offending company to obtain a license agreement. I 
would tell the Judge flat out that I would rather be publicly drawn, hung, and 
quartered rather than sign the piece of paper. He may end up awarding the 
technology ownership fully to the other company, but at least I would have 
stuck up for what was right.

The world you are describing is a nightmare world, in my opinion. It is a world 
that does not deserve cold fusion technology. I hope the reality of thin

RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jarold McWilliams]

Do you really think that if the U.S. government had the power to forbid 
implementation of cold fusion, that they wouldn't realize a cold fusion device 
is headed for the market?

 



From: oldja...@hotmail.com
To: hoyt.stea...@gmail.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:47:00 -0500





Do you really think that if the U.S. government had the power to forbid 
implementation of cold fusion, that they wouldn't realize a cold fusion device 
is headed for the market?
 




From: hoyt.stea...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:25:15 -0700


 
As I recall, a patent may be denied ( and possibly implementation forbidden ) 
if it would be substantially disruptive to the US economy ( that seems to imply 
that the really great inventions are suppressed :-( ). 
 
A good strategy then may be to get your stuff on the market before the gov't 
realizes what just happened.
 
 
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:35_U.S.C._181:Secrecy_of_certain_inventions_and_withholding_of_patent
 
Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona US
 
 

-Original Messag
[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.] 
 e-
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:36 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time


noone noone  wrote:
  



We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual property. 
We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have stolen 
intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from selling 
any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by studying Rossi's 
IP without permission.)


That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil lawsuits and 
patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the court decides. 
If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with a large share of 
the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling" except when X is a 
minor player and putting X out of business would have no impact on 
consumers.[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]  ... 


- Jed

  

RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jarold McWilliams]

Do you really think that if the U.S. government had the power to forbid 
implementation of cold fusion, that they wouldn't realize a cold fusion device 
is headed for the market?
 



From: hoyt.stea...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:25:15 -0700



 
As I recall, a patent may be denied ( and possibly implementation forbidden ) 
if it would be substantially disruptive to the US economy ( that seems to imply 
that the really great inventions are suppressed :-( ). 
 
A good strategy then may be to get your stuff on the market before the gov't 
realizes what just happened.
 
 
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:35_U.S.C._181:Secrecy_of_certain_inventions_and_withholding_of_patent
 
Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona US
 
 

-Original Messag
[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.] 
 e-
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:36 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time


noone noone  wrote:
  



We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual property. 
We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have stolen 
intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from selling 
any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by studying Rossi's 
IP without permission.)


That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil lawsuits and 
patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the court decides. 
If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with a large share of 
the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling" except when X is a 
minor player and putting X out of business would have no impact on 
consumers.[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]  ... 


- Jed

  

Re: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[zer tte]

Some new details emerged yesterday from the Smartscarecrow show.
Sterling said most of the components are off the shelf except from the control 
board of course, so he's planning to build some units at home then have the 
"inventor" to come to set them up.
Unfortunately he also added that Mark Dansie was not able to review the device 
while he was there (for those who followed the story, the inventor was 
hospitalised for some undisclosed reason).
So don't expect a report from him until the device can be reviewed in the US.

RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]

As I recall, a patent may be denied ( and possibly implementation
forbidden ) if it would be substantially disruptive to the US economy ( that
seems to imply that the really great inventions are suppressed :-( ).

A good strategy then may be to get your stuff on the market before the gov't
realizes what just happened.


http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:35_U.S.C._181:Secrecy_of_certain_inve
ntions_and_withholding_of_patent

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona US


  -Original Messag
  [Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]
   e-
  From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:36 PM
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
  Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time


  noone noone  wrote:

We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual
property. We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have
stolen intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from
selling any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by
studying Rossi's IP without permission.)


  That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil
lawsuits and patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the
court decides. If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with
a large share of the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling"
except when X is a minor player and putting X out of business would have no
impact on consumers.[Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.]  ...


  - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Harry Veeder]

> 
> From: Harry Veeder 
> To: noone noone 
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM, noone noone 
> wrote:

>>
>> If I was an inventor who had my tech stolen by Microsoft or Apple, I would
>> demand the same thing. Even if it meant every single iPAD or iPhone that
>> used my technology being taken off the market. If it bankrupts the other
>> company having to pay back all their customers, so be it.
>
> If they didn't stop would you like to see them thrown in prison?
>
> Harry


On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 5:37 PM, noone noone  wrote:
> I think so.

If you are a Christian then you should know that forgiving debts and
transgression is actually good for your soul.

harry

Re: [Vo]:Wordpress mockup of LENR-CANR.org

[Jed Rothwell]

Charly Sistovaris  wrote:

incomparably better. design is extremely important to the first perception
> you get on content. shiny & beautiful isn't superfluous, but old & ugly
> html like you had (sorry for being harsh) . . .


That was deliberate. It is the aggressively unfashionable Dibert-style
I-buy-my-wardrobe-at-Target school of design. It is modeled on things like
arxiv.org. Lately they have given in and gone to a WordPress format:

http://arxiv.org/

The Wayback machine does not show their older format.

I finally found a Theme I can live with:

http://demo.studiopress.com/genesis/

I may go hog-wild and substitute blue or aqua for the gray theme on the
menu.

This company has really good Theme and other templates. Just what you need
without stuff you don't need. I tried a dozen others including free ones
and commercial samples (with features turned off). Most of them are as ugly
internally as they are externally. I do not mind rococo designs or flashy
graphics but they get in the way of a serious purpose. They are fine in web
sites such as these (showcased by this company):

http://www.theeyecandyblog.com/

http://www.cbhutch.com/

I am re-organizing the menus and screens as I do this. That's more work
than setting up the WordPress structure.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[David Roberson]

I think that you should consider that Rossi and many before him are using 
technology that was derived by others.  It is seldom as simple as you seem to 
think when IP is being judicated.  I recall when the company I worked with at 
the time as well as its main competitor would periodically have a patent 
battle.  We all knew the game:  each company would list a number of patents 
that they held which they considered violated.  After a few lawyers were paid 
off, both sides would agree to allow the others to proceed with their 
production.

It is a joke to think that Rossi does not owe his design to the shoulders upon 
which he stands.  Look at all of the patents before him if you really think 
that his hands are totally clean.

You seem to think too much in black and white when business is always handled 
in shades of gray.  And I have a hard time believing that you really would 
rather see damage to everyone, including your family, in order to stand up for 
a principle that is not valid.

Please explain how Rossi can be sure that his IP has been stolen by anyone?  
The only way that a determination of this sort can be handled is after an 
extensive court battle where all of the important conversations, any technology 
transfers, or other happening are examined.  Are you knowledgeable of details 
that we have not been a party to?  You do recall Rossi making claims that DGT 
does not have any knowledge from him don't you?  What more do you require?

This entire discussion is a bit silly and is most likely someone's idea of a 
joke.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: noone noone 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2012 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time



I am not an expert at law, but I would strive to stop someone from selling my 
technology without permission even if it was a futile battle.


If I did decide to take money (if I thought it was the best way to fight 
against the company using my technology), I would let it be known to the courts 
that any money awarded to me would be instantly used to try and stop the 
activities of the party that stole my technology. For example, I would make 
products and give them away to stop people from purchasing products from the 
other company. Or I would wage a PR campaign against the other company. Also, a 
possibility would be to use the money to hire more lawyers to make the life of 
the company as miserable as possible.



I would also not allow the offending company to obtain a license agreement. I 
would tell the Judge flat out that I would rather be publicly drawn, hung, and 
quartered rather than sign the piece of paper. He may end up awarding the 
technology ownership fully to the other company, but at least I would have 
stuck up for what was right.


The world you are describing is a nightmare world, in my opinion. It is a world 
that does not deserve cold fusion technology. I hope the reality of things are 
not as horrible as you portray.








From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time



noone noone  wrote:
 

We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual property. 
We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have stolen 
intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from selling 
any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by studying Rossi's 
IP without permission.)




That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil lawsuits and 
patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the court decides. 
If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with a large share of 
the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling" except when X is a 
minor player and putting X out of business would have no impact on consumers.


They never shut down an industry or a major producer in such cases. When IBM 
and Hitachi fight about a semiconductor patent, both sides continue to 
manufacture and sell the chips until they settle out of court or the judge 
rules. The judge never tells IBM to stop making the chips in the meanwhile, 
because that would hurt other companies and consumers.


There have been fights like this since patent laws were invented in the 17th 
century.


This is not widely known, but the U.S. Patent Office and the judiciary do not 
allow companies or individuals to stifle an important technology. If Rossi does 
not sell his product, even if he has a patent others will soon be allowed to 
make the product. If Rossi refuses to license them, the judge will force him to 
do so. The judge will -- in effect -- draft a license agreement, or tell the 
lawyers to do it. It is widely believed that "big companies" can "buy up a 
patent" and prevent important technology from being developed. This is a myth. 
As I said, the courts will not allow it. They have ruled that the patent system 
cannot be used to prevent the spread of useful techno

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jed Rothwell]

noone noone  wrote:


> If I did decide to take money (if I thought it was the best way to fight
> against the company using my technology), I would let it be known to the
> courts that any money awarded to me would be instantly used to try and stop
> the activities of the party that stole my technology.
>

1. You can't talk in court. Only your lawyer can, and it has to be about
the case.

2. They don't care what you use the money for.


I would also not allow the offending company to obtain a license agreement.
>

It would not be up to you. You can't make up laws as you go along.



> I would tell the Judge flat out that I would rather be publicly drawn,
> hung, and quartered rather than sign the piece of paper.
>

Judges don't care what you think. You don't have to actually sign the paper
for this to go into effect.

Bear in mind also that these are civil suits. Jail sentences and the police
play no role in them. In that sense it is quite different from stealing
actual property.


The world you are describing is a nightmare world, in my opinion. It is a
> world that does not deserve cold fusion technology. I hope the reality of
> things are not as horrible as you portray.
>

This is the real world. You do not appear to know much about business,
contracts and civil lawsuits. There are good reasons why we do things the
way we do. You should not assume that laws and customs that have been in
place for centuries are "horrible." Sometimes they are dysfunctional or
obsolete, but we have to be careful about changing long-standing
institutions. The conservative attitude is justified. In this case, the
system has protect the interests of customers, and it has to promote
technological progress. The system cannot take into account only the
intellectual property rights of the inventor, ignoring all other factors.

If Defkalion succeeds I expect it will eventually benefit Rossi
tremendously. He will make hundreds of millions of dollars. Left to his own
devices, he would probably not make any money. I doubt that Defkalion has
taken anything from him, but even if they have, he will probably get more
from them than he could ever earn by himself.

Don't fret about any of this. It will probably work out well for everyone.
There will be barrels of money. Enough for everyone. In 10 years the
dispute will be forgotten.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jarold McWilliams]

If your definition of Christianity is following every line of the bible, than I 
am not a Christian.  But the bible itself says that the only requirement for 
Christianity is believing God sent someone down to die for our sins.  By this 
definition, I am a Christian.  I actually don't give a crap what the bible 
says.  It's just a collection of made up stories.  Why didn't Jesus come from 
China, India, or even America?  There are more people in other areas of the 
world.  And why should I believe in Christianity just because other people or 
my parents do?  Most people believe in things that I disagree with like a 
democracy being the best form of government.  If the majority of people are 
wrong about that, can't they be wrong about Christianity as well?  You're 
saying you can't have values if you are not a Christian?  Isn't cold fusion a 
gift from God, something God created, so Rossi would actually be stealing by 
hoarding this technology.  Doesn't the bible say to help thy neighbor.  Rossi 
has the chance to help millions of people, but he would rather hoard all of the 
wealth to himself.  So, he would be going against his values at the same time 
he is sticking with his values.  Most people want freedom because they think it 
will lead to a better life.  If there was a situation where everyone knew 
freedom would lead to a worse life but their "values" would be upheld, no one, 
except maybe you, would want freedom.
 



Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:19:26 -0800
From: thesteornpa...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com



Of course other people can have different values, but it does not mean their 
values are the correct ones. There can only be one correct set of values for 
humanity when it comes to right and wrong. 



If you are for an open marriage, you are obviously not a Christian. I think you 
have the right to have an open marriage and the right to call yourself a 
Christian if you want. But I will state for the record that according to the 
Bible an open marriage is absolutely wrong, and immoral. However, as a small 
govt. advocate I would openly stand up for your right to be in an open 
marriage, or be married to a dozen women if you want. But at the same time I 
would say that you were living an immoral life that I thought was wrong.



In my opinion, rights and freedoms are not to make your life better. They are 
about keeping you free. Being free may not always be easy or a good experience. 
Expressing your freedom can get you killed in many areas of the world. However, 
we are all born with certain rights and freedoms that come from our creator. We 
have to stand up for those rights and freedoms. Of course people have the 
choice not to. If they do not stand up for ALL their rights I think they have 
less moral grounds to complain when someone violates a certain right. For 
example, those who have no problem with inventors having their technology 
stolen if it benefits the planet have no moral authority to compalin if an evil 
person steals from them. Theft is theft.









From: Jarold McWilliams 
To: thesteornpa...@yahoo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time






Can't someone have different values than you?  I am all for open marriage.  How 
am I not a Christian if I favor open marriage?  The only purpose of having 
rights and freedoms is to make your life better.  If life is better without 
freedoms, I don't want freedom.  According to you, don't people have the right 
to support war if they want to?  Do people have the right to sell themselves 
into slavery?  Believe it or not, I'm actually more of an outcast than you are, 
especially on the internet.  I don't care what people think about me, either.  
I don't like to call people names on the internet, but you are making it very 
hard:).
 




Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:57:43 -0800
From: thesteornpa...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com



One, the fact is that when it comes to me standing up for my principles, I 
don't care what people think about me. I would rather they think favorably of 
me, but if they do not I am not going to let it change my behavior. I have been 
called all sorts of names for supporting my various beliefs, but I kept on 
going. I kept on going when it made me an outcast. I eventually embraced it and 
realized that when people react strongly against you, that is a sign you were 
bold enough in your declaration of values. If no one opposes you or reacts 
negatively, you were either preaching to the choir, or cowardly in your 
presentation.


Secondly, when it comes to divorce and marriage, I think the moment someone has 
sexual relations with someone who is not the spouse the marriage is broken. 
First of all, it is broken spiritually. This is my personal religious belief. I 
think the spiritual connection that makes a couple married is cut. Secondly, I 
think the relationship is sev

Re: [Vo]:Mark Gibbs- Forbes..more Dan Smith s Dead Deal

[Jouni Valkonen]

I think here Mark did slip rather much, but in general Mark's writing is 
keeping the hopes up, where as 99,998 % of journalists has just ignored this 
thing.

Also Mark has written many very good articles, and he really does hope for 
better future. For example when he was interviewed, he showed his passion 
towards changing the world. His writing is not just clinical reporting, but he 
really does believe into ecat.

Too bad that Rossi has behaved like lunatic and he should not deserve even that 
much attention what Mark has given to him. Mark has continued reporting even 
though he made the worst possible mistake that journalist can make, when he 
reported that National Instruments would be the Customer. This kind of 
spreading unconfirmed rumours is just unforgivable to any journalist. It should 
not be tolerated even for private self-respecting people or bloggers.

   —Jouni

Sent from my iPad

On 25 Feb 2012, at 02:29, "***  Craig Brown ***"  wrote:

> Does anyone really expect to get a fair hearing on cold fusion from one of 
> the establishment and Rothschild owned lapdogs – Forbes?
> This is what they do best. 
>  
> Good to see that the comments reflect the fact that Gibbs is out of touch 
> with 99% of the people reading his stoopid article.
>  
> From: Ron Kita [mailto:chiralex.k...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2012 9:05 AM
> To: vortex-l
> Subject: [Vo]:Mark Gibbs- Forbes..more Dan Smith s Dead Deal
>  
> Greetings Vortex,
>  
> On a date, Feb 24th, I thought that Mark Gibbs of Forbes "could" focus on the 
> upcoming Defkalion Test-
> He dras out the  Dead Dan Smith Deal..shesh.
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/02/24/dick-smith-rossi-e-cat-too-fantastic-to-be-true/
>  
> Forbeslets look at the hole in the doughnut.
>  
> Respectfully,
> Ron Kita, Chiralex
> At one time--I thought Forbes ..just " might" give all  sides..especially 
> MIT, Swartz and Hagelstein  coverage on
>  Cold Fusion.  Magazines..it is the advertisers..that wag the DOG.
>  
> Respectfully,
> Ron Kita, Chiralex

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Alan J Fletcher]

The greek corner has a post at 3:38 pm

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=el&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defkalion-energy.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D4%26t%3D359%26p%3D6607%26sid%3D7ec7ecfb643df0284b6e2919cb1c5c34%23p6607
 
alfalfa wrote:
Good luck on tests Defkalion. 
(Good luck to us all ...) 
Thank you 
DGT 

RE: [Vo]:Mark Gibbs- Forbes..more Dan Smith s Dead Deal

[*** Craig Brown ***]

Does anyone really expect to get a fair hearing on cold fusion from one of
the establishment and Rothschild owned lapdogs - Forbes?

This is what they do best.  

 

Good to see that the comments reflect the fact that Gibbs is out of touch
with 99% of the people reading his stoopid article.

 

From: Ron Kita [mailto:chiralex.k...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2012 9:05 AM
To: vortex-l
Subject: [Vo]:Mark Gibbs- Forbes..more Dan Smith s Dead Deal

 

Greetings Vortex,

 

On a date, Feb 24th, I thought that Mark Gibbs of Forbes "could" focus on
the upcoming Defkalion Test-

He dras out the  Dead Dan Smith Deal..shesh.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/02/24/dick-smith-rossi-e-cat-too-
fantastic-to-be-true/ 

 

Forbeslets look at the hole in the doughnut.

 

Respectfully,

Ron Kita, Chiralex

At one time--I thought Forbes ..just " might" give all  sides..especially
MIT, Swartz and Hagelstein  coverage on

 Cold Fusion.  Magazines..it is the advertisers..that wag the DOG.

 

Respectfully,

Ron Kita, Chiralex

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

Of course other people can have different values, but it does not mean their 
values are the correct ones. There can only be one correct set of values for 
humanity when it comes to right and wrong. 


If you are for an open marriage, you are obviously not a Christian. I think you 
have the right to have an open marriage and the right to call yourself a 
Christian if you want. But I will state for the record that according to the 
Bible an open marriage is absolutely wrong, and immoral. However, as a small 
govt. advocate I would openly stand up for your right to be in an open 
marriage, or be married to a dozen women if you want. But at the same time I 
would say that you were living an immoral life that I thought was wrong.


In my opinion, rights and freedoms are not to make your life better. They are 
about keeping you free. Being free may not always be easy or a good experience. 
Expressing your freedom can get you killed in many areas of the world. However, 
we are all born with certain rights and freedoms that come from our creator. We 
have to stand up for those rights and freedoms. Of course people have the 
choice not to. If they do not stand up for ALL their rights I think they have 
less moral grounds to complain when someone violates a certain right. For 
example, those who have no problem with inventors having their technology 
stolen if it benefits the planet have no moral authority to compalin if an evil 
person steals from them. Theft is theft.





 From: Jarold McWilliams 
To: thesteornpa...@yahoo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

 
Can't someone have different values than you?  I am all for open marriage.  How 
am I not a Christian if I favor open marriage?  The only purpose of having 
rights and freedoms is to make your life better.  If life is better without 
freedoms, I don't want freedom.  According to you, don't people have the right 
to support war if they want to?  Do people have the right to sell themselves 
into slavery?  Believe it or not, I'm actually more of an outcast than you are, 
especially on the internet.  I don't care what people think about me, either.  
I don't like to call people names on the internet, but you are making it very 
hard:).
 



 Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:57:43 -0800
From: thesteornpa...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com


One, the fact is that when it comes to me standing up for my principles, I 
don't care what people think about me. I would rather they think favorably of 
me, but if they do not I am not going to let it change my behavior. I have been 
called all sorts of names for supporting my various beliefs, but I kept on 
going. I kept on going when it made me an outcast. I eventually embraced it and 
realized that when people react strongly against you, that is a sign you were 
bold enough in your declaration of values. If no one opposes you or reacts 
negatively, you were either preaching to the choir, or cowardly in your 
presentation.

Secondly, when it comes to divorce and marriage, I think the moment someone has 
sexual relations with someone who is not the spouse the marriage is broken. 
First of all, it is broken spiritually. This is my personal religious belief. I 
think the spiritual connection that makes a couple married is cut. Secondly, I 
think the relationship is severely damaged even on a non-spiritual level. It 
will be very difficult for one partner to trust the other. I don't think the 
person who was cheated on will ever view the cheater in the same way again. 
Third, there are all kinds of other issues to do with. For example, the FACT 
that if someone cheats once they are likely to cheat again.


If a couple wants to stay married that is one thing, but I think it is 
unprincipled. I am not married and have never been, but if I were married and 
my spouse cheated on me, I would strive to get the divorce done and over with 
ASAP.  Thankfully, I've not been in a situation this horrible personally, but 
I've been in other situations were principled decisions yielded significant 
consequences.


Of course if a couple are not Christian and have an "open marriage" and have no 
problem with sex outside the confounds of marriage, then "cheating" is not an 
issue at all.

Third, I am a Christian, but many Christians are not real Christians. For 
example, consider the countless neo-cons in the United States that promote the 
idea of going to war with Iran and other Middle Eastern nations. They are rabid 
about this, and despise liberals. I have brought up the fact that many so 
called Christians have turned into blood thirsty warmongers by supporting wars 
with Iran and other nations, and have been attacked for it. I know how 
Christians think about this issue.

Fourth, the simple fact is that when it comes to certain issues, there can be 
no ethical compromise. My religious

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

Money is not the point.

The point is that if a company steals a technology from an inventor (again I am 
not saying Defkalion has stolen anything, I am speaking hypothetically) the 
company who stole the technology should not be allowed to sell products using 
the technology. Of course if the inventor WANTS to make a deal with them that 
is fine. However, if he does NOT want to make a deal with them, it should be 
his option to have the company that stole his technology re-call their 
products. 


It does not matter if the inventor could make a trillion dollars, and the 
offending company would only make one million dollars. If a company steals a 
technology they do not deserve to make one red cent off it, if that is the 
inventor's decision.

Rewarding theft is not acceptable. If anyone supports companies being allowed 
to use technologies they have stolen against the will of the inventor, they 
must also not have a problem with burglars making profit off items they steal 
when breaking and entering into someone's home.

For example, what Jed Rothwell describes is exactly the same as the following 
scenrio.

A burgler enters someones home and steals thousands of items. He then starts a 
business selling those items. For example, maybe the business was baseball 
cards. The issue goes to court and the Judge fines the burglar for stealing the 
cards, but then allows the burglar to continue running the business.

The fact is if someone steals from you they should not be able to continue 
using the stolen items in their business, period! It does not matter how much 
they are fined, or how much money they are willing to give you for allowing 
their business to stay open. The victim should be able to choose if he wants 
the burglar's business shut down or not, at least when it comes to the use of 
the stolen items.


It is the same exact thing. 






 From: Chemical Engineer 
To: "vortex-l@eskimo.com"  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

Jed is right on.  There will be plenty of money to go around if this technology 
is a go

On Friday, February 24, 2012, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

noone noone  wrote:
> 
>We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual property. 
>We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have stolen 
>intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from selling 
>any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by studying Rossi's 
>IP without permission.)
>
>
>That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil lawsuits 
>and patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the court 
>decides. If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with a large 
>share of the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling" except 
>when X is a minor player and putting X out of business would have no impact on 
>consumers.
>
>
>They never shut down an industry or a major producer in such cases. When IBM 
>and Hitachi fight about a semiconductor patent, both sides continue to 
>manufacture and sell the chips until they settle out of court or the judge 
>rules. The judge never tells IBM to stop making the chips in the meanwhile, 
>because that would hurt other companies and consumers.
>
>
>There have been fights like this since patent laws were invented in the 17th 
>century.
>
>
>This is not widely known, but the U.S. Patent Office and the judiciary do not 
>allow companies or individuals to stifle an important technology. If Rossi 
>does not sell his product, even if he has a patent others will soon be allowed 
>to make the product. If Rossi refuses to license them, the judge will force 
>him to do so. The judge will -- in effect -- draft a license agreement, or 
>tell the lawyers to do it. It is widely believed that "big companies" can "buy 
>up a patent" and prevent important technology from being developed. This is a 
>myth. As I said, the courts will not allow it. They have ruled that the patent 
>system cannot be used to prevent the spread of useful technology. They take a 
>dim view of companies that seem to be stalling. In any case, patents do not 
>last long and another company can often "invent around" the patent if the 
>owner refuses to license it, so this strategy would not work.
>
>
>- Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

I am not an expert at law, but I would strive to stop someone from selling my 
technology without permission even if it was a futile battle.

If I did decide to take money (if I thought it was the best way to fight 
against the company using my technology), I would let it be known to the courts 
that any money awarded to me would be instantly used to try and stop the 
activities of the party that stole my technology. For example, I would make 
products and give them away to stop people from purchasing products from the 
other company. Or I would wage a PR campaign against the other company. Also, a 
possibility would be to use the money to hire more lawyers to make the life of 
the company as miserable as possible.


I would also not allow the offending company to obtain a license agreement. I 
would tell the Judge flat out that I would rather be publicly drawn, hung, and 
quartered rather than sign the piece of paper. He may end up awarding the 
technology ownership fully to the other company, but at least I would have 
stuck up for what was right.

The world you are describing is a nightmare world, in my opinion. It is a world 
that does not deserve cold fusion technology. I hope the reality of things are 
not as horrible as you portray.






 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

noone noone  wrote:
 
We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual property. 
We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have stolen 
intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from selling 
any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by studying Rossi's 
IP without permission.)

That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil lawsuits and 
patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the court decides. 
If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with a large share of 
the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling" except when X is a 
minor player and putting X out of business would have no impact on consumers.

They never shut down an industry or a major producer in such cases. When IBM 
and Hitachi fight about a semiconductor patent, both sides continue to 
manufacture and sell the chips until they settle out of court or the judge 
rules. The judge never tells IBM to stop making the chips in the meanwhile, 
because that would hurt other companies and consumers.

There have been fights like this since patent laws were invented in the 17th 
century.

This is not widely known, but the U.S. Patent Office and the judiciary do not 
allow companies or individuals to stifle an important technology. If Rossi does 
not sell his product, even if he has a patent others will soon be allowed to 
make the product. If Rossi refuses to license them, the judge will force him to 
do so. The judge will -- in effect -- draft a license agreement, or tell the 
lawyers to do it. It is widely believed that "big companies" can "buy up a 
patent" and prevent important technology from being developed. This is a myth. 
As I said, the courts will not allow it. They have ruled that the patent system 
cannot be used to prevent the spread of useful technology. They take a dim view 
of companies that seem to be stalling. In any case, patents do not last long 
and another company can often "invent around" the patent if the owner refuses 
to license it, so this strategy would not work.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Chemical Engineer]

Jed is right on.  There will be plenty of money to go around if this
technology is a go

On Friday, February 24, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> noone noone  'thesteornpa...@yahoo.com');>> wrote:
>
>>
>> We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual
>> property. We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have
>> stolen intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped
>> from selling any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by
>> studying Rossi's IP without permission.)
>>
>
> That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil
> lawsuits and patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the
> court decides. If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with
> a large share of the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling"
> except when X is a minor player and putting X out of business would have no
> impact on consumers.
>
> They *never* shut down an industry or a major producer in such
> cases. When IBM and Hitachi fight about a semiconductor patent, both sides
> continue to manufacture and sell the chips until they settle out of court
> or the judge rules. The judge never tells IBM to stop making the chips in
> the meanwhile, because that would hurt other companies and consumers.
>
> There have been fights like this since patent laws were invented in the
> 17th century.
>
> This is not widely known, but the U.S. Patent Office and the judiciary do
> not allow companies or individuals to stifle an important technology. If
> Rossi does not sell his product, even if he has a patent others will soon
> be allowed to make the product. If Rossi refuses to license them, the judge
> will force him to do so. The judge will -- in effect -- draft a license
> agreement, or tell the lawyers to do it. It is widely believed that "big
> companies" can "buy up a patent" and prevent important technology from
> being developed. This is a myth. As I said, the courts will not allow it.
> They have ruled that the patent system cannot be used to prevent the spread
> of useful technology. They take a dim view of companies that seem to be
> stalling. In any case, patents do not last long and another company can
> often "invent around" the patent if the owner refuses to license it, so
> this strategy would not work.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Mark Gibbs- Forbes..more Dan Smith s Dead Deal

[Chemical Engineer]

All Forbes/Gibbs is doing is getting paid to read other people's blogs and
regurgitate information they are posting on their free time.  I respect
Steve Krivit for original investigative reporting regardless of whether his
opinions slant one way or the other.

On Friday, February 24, 2012, Ron Kita wrote:

> Greetings Vortex,
>
> On a date, Feb 24th, I thought that Mark Gibbs of Forbes "could" focus on
> the upcoming Defkalion Test-
> He dras out the  Dead Dan Smith Deal..shesh.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/02/24/dick-smith-rossi-e-cat-too-fantastic-to-be-true/
>
> Forbeslets look at the hole in the doughnut.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ron Kita, Chiralex
> At one time--I thought Forbes ..just " might" give all  sides..especially
> MIT, Swartz and Hagelstein  coverage on
>  Cold Fusion.  Magazines..it is the advertisers..that wag the DOG.
>
> Respectfully,
> Ron Kita, Chiralex
>

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jed Rothwell]

noone noone  wrote:

>
> We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual
> property. We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have
> stolen intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped
> from selling any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by
> studying Rossi's IP without permission.)
>

That never happens, at least not in the U.S. That is not how civil lawsuits
and patent laws are enforced. Everyone continues selling until the court
decides. If there is an infringement the judge awards the winner with a
large share of the profits from the loser. No one  "stops X from selling"
except when X is a minor player and putting X out of business would have no
impact on consumers.

They *never* shut down an industry or a major producer in such cases. When
IBM and Hitachi fight about a semiconductor patent, both sides continue to
manufacture and sell the chips until they settle out of court or the judge
rules. The judge never tells IBM to stop making the chips in the meanwhile,
because that would hurt other companies and consumers.

There have been fights like this since patent laws were invented in the
17th century.

This is not widely known, but the U.S. Patent Office and the judiciary do
not allow companies or individuals to stifle an important technology. If
Rossi does not sell his product, even if he has a patent others will soon
be allowed to make the product. If Rossi refuses to license them, the judge
will force him to do so. The judge will -- in effect -- draft a license
agreement, or tell the lawyers to do it. It is widely believed that "big
companies" can "buy up a patent" and prevent important technology from
being developed. This is a myth. As I said, the courts will not allow it.
They have ruled that the patent system cannot be used to prevent the spread
of useful technology. They take a dim view of companies that seem to be
stalling. In any case, patents do not last long and another company can
often "invent around" the patent if the owner refuses to license it, so
this strategy would not work.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:100 years 1912 beep beep beep and aliens

[LORENHEYER]

Cut Cut... my statement below was intervened upon by 'someone' who can 
operate from within my feeble intelligence process, w/o my knowledge. > Two 
words, 'only'  and 'navigated' were somehow kept from being typed in the last 
sentence, and have now been re-included. 

<< This is what I said to NASA about 3 years ago. > I also mentioned that 
the 
 rotor they had gotten to spin at a sustained 60,000 Rpm's (1,000 Rps's) 
back 
 in ' 2001 (?), was absolutely essential in-order to achieve the 
Independent 
 State of Energy/Propusion in what I am convinced is the one system that 
 will not only enable us to travel space in the extreme, but as to how it 
is 
 interpreted or navigated  >>

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 01:33 PM 2/24/2012, Zell, Chris wrote:
To explain: Ed Shoulders is not
some ill-educated crackpot. He discovered a 'particle' he initially
called Electron Validum, later changed to charge cluster. Some Russians
independently made the same claim, calling them "ectons' or
something.
Seems to be a collection of Ken Shoulders articles here :
<
http://www.svn.net/krscfs/>
I found his main CF/LENR paper at :
<
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/J/JNE1N3.PDF > Page
111

[Vo]:Mark Gibbs- Forbes..more Dan Smith s Dead Deal

[Ron Kita]

Greetings Vortex,

On a date, Feb 24th, I thought that Mark Gibbs of Forbes "could" focus on
the upcoming Defkalion Test-
He dras out the  Dead Dan Smith Deal..shesh.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2012/02/24/dick-smith-rossi-e-cat-too-fantastic-to-be-true/

Forbeslets look at the hole in the doughnut.

Respectfully,
Ron Kita, Chiralex
At one time--I thought Forbes ..just " might" give all  sides..especially
MIT, Swartz and Hagelstein  coverage on
 Cold Fusion.  Magazines..it is the advertisers..that wag the DOG.

Respectfully,
Ron Kita, Chiralex

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

One, the fact is that when it comes to me standing up for my principles, I 
don't care what people think about me. I would rather they think favorably of 
me, but if they do not I am not going to let it change my behavior. I have been 
called all sorts of names for supporting my various beliefs, but I kept on 
going. I kept on going when it made me an outcast. I eventually embraced it and 
realized that when people react strongly against you, that is a sign you were 
bold enough in your declaration of values. If no one opposes you or reacts 
negatively, you were either preaching to the choir, or cowardly in your 
presentation.

Secondly, when it comes to divorce and marriage, I think the moment someone has 
sexual relations with someone who is not the spouse the marriage is broken. 
First of all, it is broken spiritually. This is my personal religious belief. I 
think the spiritual connection that makes a couple married is cut. Secondly, I 
think the relationship is severely damaged even on a non-spiritual level. It 
will be very difficult for one partner to trust the other. I don't think the 
person who was cheated on will ever view the cheater in the same way again. 
Third, there are all kinds of other issues to do with. For example, the FACT 
that if someone cheats once they are likely to cheat again.


If a couple wants to stay married that is one thing, but I think it is 
unprincipled. I am not married and have never been, but if I were married and 
my spouse cheated on me, I would strive to get the divorce done and over with 
ASAP.  Thankfully, I've not been in a situation this horrible personally, but 
I've been in other situations were principled decisions yielded significant 
consequences.


Of course if a couple are not Christian and have an "open marriage" and 
have no problem with sex outside the confounds of marriage, then 
"cheating" is not an issue at all.

Third, I am a Christian, but many Christians are not real Christians. For 
example, consider the countless neo-cons in the United States that promote the 
idea of going to war with Iran and other Middle Eastern nations. They are rabid 
about this, and despise liberals. I have brought up the fact that many so 
called Christians have turned into blood thirsty warmongers by supporting wars 
with Iran and other nations, and have been attacked for it. I know how 
Christians think about this issue.

Fourth, the simple fact is that when it comes to certain issues, there can be 
no ethical compromise. My religious views on marriage is one example. Standing 
up for rights and freedoms (property rights) is another example. 


For many things there is a need for compromise. But when it comes to rights and 
freedoms there is no room for compromise.





 From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
To: vortex-l  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 
It's been a slow-news Friday afternoon, so please accept my apologies
for continuing this protracted discussion with noone noone:

The world according to noone noone:

> If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
> it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
> dollars from a lawsuit.
>
> The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
> forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
> by selling the products from my own company.
>
> When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not
> matter what people think of me.

It's been my experience that when I hear people boast that they don't
care "...what other people think about [them]." they are essentially
trying to convince themselves that they have found a magic bullet that
allows themselves to become immune to what other people think about
them.

It matters, noone. It always matters. It's learning how to DEAL with
how others think about you... that is a lesson in life we all must
face. Its learning to find one's personal center. It's learning how to
discover one's sense of personal integrity so that one can
subsequently withstand the onslaught of external pressures demanding
that we conform to specific social taboos.

Quite frankly, it looks to me as if you are trying to remove yourself
from having to deal with the anticipation of personal pain you fear
you will feel based on what you fear others might say about you or
think about you. You think you can avoid this lesson? Think again.
Avoiding that lesson only means it will come back in another scenario
again, and again, until you have the courage to pass through that
fire.

> I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks
> Christians, "who would Jesus bomb." At that point I'm
> automatically considered an evil liberal.

I have no idea how making such a statement about whom "...Jesus would
bomb" could possibly cause ANYONE to assume that you must therefore be
an "evil liberal." Are you sure you are reading their responses
accurately, or is it possible that you hope y

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint]

It's KEN Shoulders, not Ed Shoulders...

-Original Message-
From: Zell, Chris [mailto:chrisz...@wetmtv.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:34 PM
To: 'vortex-l@eskimo.com'
Subject: RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

To explain: Ed Shoulders is not some ill-educated crackpot. He discovered a
'particle' he initially called Electron Validum, later changed to charge
cluster. Some Russians independently made the same claim, calling them
"ectons' or something.

Anyhow, they are transient structures of huge numbers of electrons briefly
stuck together, somehow in defiance of mutual repulsion. They can go thru
refractory material like butter and their concentraion of charge means they
can bust thru a Coulomb barrier and transmute atoms.

Shoulders says that various government types wanted to classify his patents
as secret but he published his results in such a way as to prevent that.

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

I think so.

However, we do not know if anyone has copied Rossi's technology. If they have, 
they just need to be prohibited from selling products using the E-Cat 
technology.




 From: Harry Veeder 
To: noone noone  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM, noone noone  wrote:
> A principled inventor would not accept a penny in damages in exchange for
> the other company to continue selling the products. A principled inventor
> would demand that the other company re-call their products, and be forced to
> STOP SELLING THEM.
>
> If I was an injured inventor, I would want sales to stop immediately. I
> would want them to stop so I could sell the products from my company, or
> from officially licensed parties. The lure of a hundred billion dollars
> would not be enough to make me sacrifice my principles.
>
> If Rossi has had his technology stolen or has his technology stolen in the
> future (I do not know if it has happened or will happen) then I hope he does
> not receive the Noble Prize, or any payments from those who have copied his
> technology. I would hope for one thing, that the companies who have copied
> his technology are forced to recall any products they have sold, and stop
> selling any more.
>
> If I was an inventor who had my tech stolen by Microsoft or Apple, I would
> demand the same thing. Even if it meant every single iPAD or iPhone that
> used my technology being taken off the market. If it bankrupts the other
> company having to pay back all their customers, so be it.

If they didn't stop would you like to see them thrown in prison?

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

The issue is not the design, but the catalysts and special treatment of the 
nickel powders.

We do not need both companies if one company has stolen intellectual property. 
We do NOT know if this is the case. I am not saying they have stolen 
intellectual property. But if they have, they need to be stopped from selling 
any products that use Rossi's IP (or use IP they developed by studying Rossi's 
IP without permission.)


Again, this is not about needs. The world needs this technology very badly, or 
I think modern civilization may not exist in 20 years. Despite how badly the 
world needs this technology, their needs are not more important than Andrea 
Rossi's right to property.

If you approve of someone's right to property being violated to benefit others, 
then you must not have a problem with muggers holding people up in the street 
as long as they use the money for good purposes.




 From: David Roberson 
To: thesteornpa...@yahoo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

It is fairly clear to me that DGT has a different design than Rossi.  You seem 
to be over reacting to the situation as we need both companies.  I personally 
think the world needs LENR a lot more than Rossi needs money and I think it is 
prudent for the lawyers to argue about IP later as is usually the case.
 
Dave



-Original Message-
From: noone noone 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2012 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time


A principled inventor would not accept a penny in damages in exchange for the 
other company to continue selling the products. A principled inventor would 
demand that the other company re-call their products, and be forced to STOP 
SELLING THEM.

If I was an injured inventor, I would want sales to stop immediately. I would 
want them to stop so I could sell the products from my company, or from 
officially licensed parties. The lure of a hundred billion dollars would not be 
enough to make me sacrifice my principles.

If Rossi has had his technology stolen or has his technology stolen in the 
future (I do not know if it has happened or will happen) then I hope he does 
not receive the Noble Prize, or any payments from those who have copied his 
technology. I would hope for one thing, that the companies who have copied his 
technology are forced to recall any products they have sold, and stop selling 
any more.

If I was an inventor who had my tech stolen by Microsoft or Apple, I would 
demand the same thing. Even if it meant every single iPAD or iPhone that used 
my technology being taken off the market. If it bankrupts the other company 
having to pay back all their customers, so be it. 




 From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

From Jed,

> noone noone  wrote:
>
>>
>> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual
>> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)

> Nonsense.

I agree,

What well-known company has not filed suit against a potential
competitor for daring to kick the tires of their product. Think of
Apple. Meanwhile, it's business as usual. Or as Trump would say, it's
just business.

Meanwhile, nobody wants sales to stop. Cessation of sales would
translate to no more money that could be awarded to the injured party!

If DGT ends up whipping Rossi's ass, hopefully the inventor will end
up with a reasonably satisfactory out-of-court consolation prize. ...A
reasonable sum, perhaps amounting to several hundred million Euros -
for pain and suffering.

We'll see.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

Absolutely. I would not care if everyone would be better off, including myself. 
I would not care even if by accepting damages and letting the other company 
continue producing the units a million lives would be saved. Our rights and 
freedoms are more important than our physical bodies.

I want other people's lives to be better too. I've not suffered as much as many 
people in the world, but I know what poverty is like. Sometimes doing the right 
thing means that you have to endure hardship. 




 From: Jarold McWilliams 
To: noone noone  
Cc: "vortex-l@eskimo.com"  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

If everyone was better off, including yourself, you'd still follow your 
"values"?  I completely disagree with this.  All I care about is making 
people's lives better.  

On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:32 PM, noone noone wrote:

When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not matter what people 
think of me.
>
>
>I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks Christians, "who would 
>Jesus bomb." At that point I'm automatically considered an evil liberal.
>
>
>In this life you can usually take two roads when it comes to most decisions. 
>The first road is the one that is a compromise of your principles, and 
>branches out to many different roads. This road is often easier to ride on, 
>has fewer bumps, and makes a commute easy. The second road is the one where 
>you refuse to budge one inch on your principles. It is full of bumps, and can 
>easily get you a flat tire. For example, a woman divorcing her husband after 
>being cheated on (THE FIRST TIME) despite having ten kids and no way to 
>financially support them, and her husband apologizing. Divorce is the only 
>appropriate answer, even if it could mean the kids end up being sent to 
>orphanages and never seeing each other again. Some may say she should have not 
>divorced her husband, but I believe her principles are more important than 
>anything else.
>
>
>If I were Andrea Rossi and if my technology had been copied without permission 
>(I'm not saying it has) I would let the world consider me the most evil man in 
>history. I would sleep just fine at night knowing that I did the right thing, 
>by standing up for not only my rights, and the property rights of all other 
>inventors.
>
>
>A world without absolute rights is not worth living in. Sadly, the way the 
>world is going, individuals are having their rights violated more and more 
>each day.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
>To: vortex-l  
>Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:21 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
>noone noone sez:
>
>> If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
>> it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
>> dollars from a lawsuit.
>>
>> The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
>> forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
>> by selling the products from my own company.
>
>Good luck. You give me the impression that you think you can go to
>court and win your case in a just few weeks, and then everything will
>be honky dorey. Think again. Think years. Many, many years.
>
>And during all those contentious years of unending litigation that
>will make many a lawyer rich, and while you are demanding all those
>recalls, and to a complete halt to sales, just think of all the good
>PR you will be generating for yourself. People across the planet are
>desperate for any kind of cheaper energy. But your sense of
 demanding
>"justice" could end up potentially denying a huge portion of the
>population that opportunity - all on personal principle. I'm sure they
>will all understand your personal sense of outrage for not getting
>even richer off of your invention. But of course you'll be right. You
>have that going for you.
>
>Don't get me wrong. I would be pissed off, too, if someone stole my
>invention. But consider the ramifications of how best to get even with
>the competition. Try to get even without turning yourself in to the
>energy pariah of the century - someone who will be written up in the
>history books as having denied millions of desperate individuals
>access to cheap energy because he was unhappy over the fact that
>someone was making profits off of something that he thought he should
>be profiting over himself.
>
>> If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any
>> credit, money, or other
 compensation. I would also hope he
>> would turn down the nobel prize. I hope his mission in life
>> becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology without
>> permission.
>
>Shish! I'm glad I don't think the way you do.
>
>Regards
>Steven Vincent Johnson
>www.OrionWorks.com
>www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:John Huizenga

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Bastiaan Bergman
 wrote:
>
> Cold Fusion: The Scientific Fiasco of the Century
>
> Can some experienced guy tell us some history? Is John Huizenga the one who
> headed the two DOE reviews (1989 and 1994)?

The 1989 report:

http://files.ncas.org/erab/index.html

I don't know about the 1994 review.  There was one in 2004 covered here:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/Collections/DoeReview.htm#Report

T

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 01:05 PM 2/24/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
The "Tesla Switch"
seems to derive from Ronald Brandt -- who is generally reported to have
been a close friend of Tesla (though google books / biographies don't
show him).

http://www.overunity.com/12003/estate-of-ron-brandt/


Estate of Ron


Brandt « on: February 11, 2012, 10:50:43 PM
»
I purchased the estate of Ron Brandt, the inventor of the Tesla switch,
this past summer. Items include a number of his Tesla switches, perm-mag
motors, diagrams, vidoes and audio tapes of experiements and various mock
ups. Wondering what I should do with these items. 

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Zell, Chris]

To explain: Ed Shoulders is not some ill-educated crackpot. He discovered a 
'particle' he initially called Electron Validum, later changed to charge 
cluster. Some Russians independently made the same claim, calling them "ectons' 
or something.

Anyhow, they are transient structures of huge numbers of electrons briefly 
stuck together, somehow in defiance of mutual repulsion. They can go thru 
refractory material like butter and their concentraion of charge means they can 
bust thru a Coulomb barrier and transmute atoms.

Shoulders says that various government types wanted to classify his patents as 
secret but he published his results in such a way as to prevent that.

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

It's been a slow-news Friday afternoon, so please accept my apologies
for continuing this protracted discussion with noone noone:

The world according to noone noone:

> If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
> it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
> dollars from a lawsuit.
>
> The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
> forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
> by selling the products from my own company.
>
> When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not
> matter what people think of me.

It's been my experience that when I hear people boast that they don't
care "...what other people think about [them]." they are essentially
trying to convince themselves that they have found a magic bullet that
allows themselves to become immune to what other people think about
them.

It matters, noone. It always matters. It's learning how to DEAL with
how others think about you... that is a lesson in life we all must
face. Its learning to find one's personal center. It's learning how to
discover one's sense of personal integrity so that one can
subsequently withstand the onslaught of external pressures demanding
that we conform to specific social taboos.

Quite frankly, it looks to me as if you are trying to remove yourself
from having to deal with the anticipation of personal pain you fear
you will feel based on what you fear others might say about you or
think about you. You think you can avoid this lesson? Think again.
Avoiding that lesson only means it will come back in another scenario
again, and again, until you have the courage to pass through that
fire.

> I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks
> Christians, "who would Jesus bomb." At that point I'm
> automatically considered an evil liberal.

I have no idea how making such a statement about whom "...Jesus would
bomb" could possibly cause ANYONE to assume that you must therefore be
an "evil liberal." Are you sure you are reading their responses
accurately, or is it possible that you hope you will be labeled as an
"evil liberal" so that it gives you additional justification to
dismiss how others will perceive you. From what you have told me so
far, what all this seems to boil down to is the fact that you seem to
be fishing around for convenient ways in which to avoid having to deal
with how you fear others will perceive you.


> In this life you can usually take two roads when it
> comes to most decisions. The first road is the one that
> is a compromise of your principles, and branches out to
> many different roads. This road is often easier to ride
> on, has fewer bumps, and makes a commute easy. The second
> road is the one where you refuse to budge one inch on your
> principles. It is full of bumps, and can easily get you a
> flat tire. For example, a woman divorcing her husband after
> being cheated on (THE FIRST TIME) despite having ten kids
> and no way to financially support them, and her husband
> apologizing. Divorce is the only appropriate answer, even
> if it could mean the kids end up being sent to orphanages
> and never seeing each other again. Some may say she should
> have not divorced her husband, but I believe her principles
> are more important than anything else.

I get the sense that certain elements pertaining to this hypothetical
"divorce" scenario you have brought up may have touched on something
that actually happened to you. In what capacity, I don't know.
Nevertheless, you have my sympathies. Seeking counsel from individuals
one has learned to trust is recommended. It can help.

Now, in regards to the infidelity issue you cite here... quite
frankly, noone, you are NOT dealing with "principle" here, even though
you claim you are. The actions you cite have NOTHING to do with
sticking to one's "principles". To be perfectly blunt, you just don't
want to deal with the complexities of what a dynamic relationship
sometimes brings forth between two individuals. Sticking to the
principals you cite here means you don't want to deal with WHY a
spouse might have in the first place temporarily wandered from the
sacred bonds and emotional security of marriage. You are using the
excuse of sticking to your principles so that you can avoid some
potential unpleasant soul-searching on your own part. What are you
really afraid of? That maybe you'll discover the fact that you're just
as imperfect as your spouse? After entering into discussion maybe a
couple WILL discover the sad fact that they actually SHOULD separate,
but then maybe such a drastic decision is unwarranted. Your
"principals" would allow for no opportunity to explore all the choices
- except for your "principal" of avoiding the whole matter altogether.

> If I were Andrea Rossi and if my technology had been copied
> without permission (I'm not saying it has) I would let the
> world consider me the most evil man in history. I would
> sleep just fine at night knowing that I did the right
> th

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Harry Veeder]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM, noone noone  wrote:
> A principled inventor would not accept a penny in damages in exchange for
> the other company to continue selling the products. A principled inventor
> would demand that the other company re-call their products, and be forced to
> STOP SELLING THEM.
>
> If I was an injured inventor, I would want sales to stop immediately. I
> would want them to stop so I could sell the products from my company, or
> from officially licensed parties. The lure of a hundred billion dollars
> would not be enough to make me sacrifice my principles.
>
> If Rossi has had his technology stolen or has his technology stolen in the
> future (I do not know if it has happened or will happen) then I hope he does
> not receive the Noble Prize, or any payments from those who have copied his
> technology. I would hope for one thing, that the companies who have copied
> his technology are forced to recall any products they have sold, and stop
> selling any more.
>
> If I was an inventor who had my tech stolen by Microsoft or Apple, I would
> demand the same thing. Even if it meant every single iPAD or iPhone that
> used my technology being taken off the market. If it bankrupts the other
> company having to pay back all their customers, so be it.

If they didn't stop would you like to see them thrown in prison?

Harry

[Vo]:John Huizenga

[Bastiaan Bergman]

Cold Fusion: The Scientific Fiasco of the Century

Can some experienced guy tell us some history? Is John Huizenga the one who
headed the two DOE reviews (1989 and 1994)?
 I remember reading that somewhere but can't find it anymore.

Has anybody read his book, is it good? I know most of you will be offended
by the title alone, but I want to make sure I have at least done my due
diligence and therefore should have heard the critics. I buy it "second
hand" from Amazon, so I'm not 'sponsoring' the pathological critics (in
case he is one) ;-).

Is he still a professor? Where?

Other anecdotes?

Thanks!
Bastiaan.

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

The "Tesla Switch" seems to derive from Ronald Brandt -- who is
generally reported to have been a close friend of Tesla (though google
books / biographies don't show him).
This seems to be the initial definitive report on Bedini's version
:

http://www.esmhome.org/library/john-bedini/report_on_4_battery_switch.pdf

Steven,
I spoke with John this morning concerning your request for a copy of the
Eike Mueller
Report. He has no problem with me posting it, but also said he would not
be commenting
on it in this forum, or anywhere else. He said he agrees with us, that
Ron Brandt showed
him the circuit and that he doesn't even know why it was called the
Tesla Switch.
I'll scan the document into a .pdf file over the weekend and get Aaron to
show me how to
post it.
Peter [ Lindemann ]
... scan of Mueller Report  follows ...
- - - - -
Some sites refer to it as the Brandt/Tesla Switch
So far, this is the only biography I can find on Brandt :


http://www.witts.ws/2010/12/31/020-how-to-be-led-by-the-spirit-divine-healing-guest-timothy-martin-the-life-of-ron-brandts/

How to be Led by the Spirit, Divine Healing; Guest Timothy
Martin – The Life of Ron Brandton December 31st, 2010 at 9:13 am


Topics: Former Ministry spokesman and Free Energy legend, Ronald
Brandt’s Amazing Life
-Former Ministry Spokesman Ron Brandt recently died (inventor of the
Brandt-Tesla Switch, and many other devices.)
-Ron run over by a CAT, head held together with duct tape, brain picked
up off of ground after prayer!
-Ron working on the Philadelphia Experiment, worm hole, invisibility,
intangibility
-Gravity Motor Plans

Re: [Vo]:The first real NiH reactor

[mixent]

In reply to  Axil Axil's message of Sun, 19 Feb 2012 16:20:54 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>• The high pressure CO2 coolant will eliminate hydrogen exfiltration from
>the hot kernel stainless steel reactor kernel walls;

I don't think so.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

Here's a 2000-page compendium of Free Energy Devices.
Free Energy Devices



Also available on-line (Chapters in separate PDF's) : 
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/


(Warning : Chapter 13 goes off the deep end, with a UK-equivalent of 
'Sovereign Citizen" foo) 

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 06:54 AM 2/24/2012, Zell, Chris wrote:
These battery pulsing/shuttling devices have been around since the 
Ed Grey motor. Whatever it is, it gets rediscovered and rediscovered.


Here's a 2000-page compendium of Free Energy Devices. (Ed Grey is 
only noted in an appendix).


Free Energy Devices


In section 5 (p 161 -- discussing John Bedini) the idea of 
pulses-to-batteries seems to go back to Tesla!


The Tesla Switch

It doesn't stop there. Nikola Tesla introduced the world to 
Alternating Current ("AC") butlater on he moved from AC to very 
short, sharp pulses of Direct Current ("DC"). He found that by 
adjusting the frequency and duration of these high-voltage pulses, 
that he could produce a whole range of effects drawn from the 
environment - heating, cooling, lighting, etc. The important point to 
note is that the pulses were drawing energy directly from the 
immediate environment. Leaving aside the advanced equipment which 
Tesla was using during those experiments and moving to Tesla's 
simple-looking 4-battery switch, we discover the same background 
operation of sharp voltage pulses drawing free-energy from the environment.


...

The Electrodyne Corporation tested the Tesla 4-battery circuit over a 
period of three years. They found that at the end of that period, the 
batteries did not show any unusual deterioration. The batteries used 
were ordinary lead-acid batteries. The system operated lights, 
heaters, television sets, small motors and a 30-horsepower electric 
motor. If the batteries were run down to a low level and then the 
circuit switch on with a load, the recharging of the batteries took 
place in under one minute. No heating was experienced duringthis 
rapid charging. Heat was only produced during discharge cycles. If 
left undisturbed, each battery wouldcharge up to nearly 36 volts. 
Control circuitry was developed to prevent this over-charging. They 
used mechanical switching and stated that below 100 Hz there was not 
much advantage with the circuit and above 800 Hz it could be dangerous ...

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 11:05 AM 2/24/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:

At 06:54 AM 2/24/2012, Zell, Chris wrote:
These battery pulsing/shuttling devices have been around since the 
Ed Grey motor. Whatever it is, it gets rediscovered and rediscovered


A bunch of Ed Grey links : starting in 1973, patent application 1980
http://www.rexresearch.com/evgray/1gray.htm

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Bastiaan Bergman]

Exactly! We should crowd-source the funding to get this going.
Or better, since nobody has money and everbody here has an opinion of how
to make it work, we should Crowd Science! That's what we aim for with
our crowd science project with the "Peer Pressure".

Cheers,
Bastiaan.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

> If this affair doesn't go anywhere, we could start a fund for an
> opensource development of LENR.
>
>
> 2012/2/24 Jarold McWilliams 
>
>> If everyone was better off, including yourself, you'd still follow your
>> "values"?  I completely disagree with this.  All I care about is making
>> people's lives better.
>>
>>  On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:32 PM, noone noone wrote:
>>
>>   When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not matter what
>> people think of me.
>>
>> I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks Christians, "who
>> would Jesus bomb." At that point I'm automatically considered an evil
>> liberal.
>>
>> In this life you can usually take two roads when it comes to most
>> decisions. The first road is the one that is a compromise of your
>> principles, and branches out to many different roads. This road is often
>> easier to ride on, has fewer bumps, and makes a commute easy. The second
>> road is the one where you refuse to budge one inch on your principles. It
>> is full of bumps, and can easily get you a flat tire. For example, a woman
>> divorcing her husband after being cheated on (THE FIRST TIME) despite
>> having ten kids and no way to financially support them, and her husband
>> apologizing. Divorce is the only appropriate answer, even if it could mean
>> the kids end up being sent to orphanages and never seeing each other again.
>> Some may say she should have not divorced her husband, but I believe her
>> principles are more important than anything else.
>>
>> If I were Andrea Rossi and if my technology had been copied without
>> permission (I'm not saying it has) I would let the world consider me the
>> most evil man in history. I would sleep just fine at night knowing that I
>> did the right thing, by standing up for not only my rights, and the
>> property rights of all other inventors.
>>
>> A world without absolute rights is not worth living in. Sadly, the way
>> the world is going, individuals are having their rights violated more and
>> more each day.
>>
>>   --
>> *From:* OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
>> *To:* vortex-l 
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2012 1:21 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
>>
>> noone noone sez:
>>
>> > If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
>> > it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
>> > dollars from a lawsuit.
>> >
>> > The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
>> > forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
>> > by selling the products from my own company.
>>
>> Good luck. You give me the impression that you think you can go to
>> court and win your case in a just few weeks, and then everything will
>> be honky dorey. Think again. Think years. Many, many years.
>>
>> And during all those contentious years of unending litigation that
>> will make many a lawyer rich, and while you are demanding all those
>> recalls, and to a complete halt to sales, just think of all the good
>> PR you will be generating for yourself. People across the planet are
>> desperate for any kind of cheaper energy. But your sense of demanding
>> "justice" could end up potentially denying a huge portion of the
>> population that opportunity - all on personal principle. I'm sure they
>> will all understand your personal sense of outrage for not getting
>> even richer off of your invention. But of course you'll be right. You
>> have that going for you.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong. I would be pissed off, too, if someone stole my
>> invention. But consider the ramifications of how best to get even with
>> the competition. Try to get even without turning yourself in to the
>> energy pariah of the century - someone who will be written up in the
>> history books as having denied millions of desperate individuals
>> access to cheap energy because he was unhappy over the fact that
>> someone was making profits off of something that he thought he should
>> be profiting over himself.
>>
>> > If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any
>> > credit, money, or other compensation. I would also hope he
>> > would turn down the nobel prize. I hope his mission in life
>> > becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology without
>> > permission.
>>
>> Shish! I'm glad I don't think the way you do.
>>
>> Regards
>> Steven Vincent Johnson
>> www.OrionWorks.com 
>> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>
>

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Alan J Fletcher]

At 06:54 AM 2/24/2012, Zell, Chris wrote:
These battery pulsing/shuttling devices have been around since the 
Ed Grey motor. Whatever it is, it gets rediscovered and rediscovered


http://keelynet.com/evgray/evgray1.htm
http://keelynet.com/evgray/evgray2.htm
http://keelynet.com/evgray/evgray3.htm

It notes that "high quality batteries are required".

You pay for a SA FFG after "30 days of use" ... which is as long as 
their longest reported run.


I personally think that Ed Shoulders Charge Clusters explain both 
LENR and these devices. If have ever read his main patents, you are 
witness to a huge amount of careful and extensive experimentation.


First I've heard of them ... off to google 

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Daniel Rocha]

If this affair doesn't go anywhere, we could start a fund for an opensource
development of LENR.

2012/2/24 Jarold McWilliams 

> If everyone was better off, including yourself, you'd still follow your
> "values"?  I completely disagree with this.  All I care about is making
> people's lives better.
>
> On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:32 PM, noone noone wrote:
>
> When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not matter what people
> think of me.
>
> I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks Christians, "who
> would Jesus bomb." At that point I'm automatically considered an evil
> liberal.
>
> In this life you can usually take two roads when it comes to most
> decisions. The first road is the one that is a compromise of your
> principles, and branches out to many different roads. This road is often
> easier to ride on, has fewer bumps, and makes a commute easy. The second
> road is the one where you refuse to budge one inch on your principles. It
> is full of bumps, and can easily get you a flat tire. For example, a woman
> divorcing her husband after being cheated on (THE FIRST TIME) despite
> having ten kids and no way to financially support them, and her husband
> apologizing. Divorce is the only appropriate answer, even if it could mean
> the kids end up being sent to orphanages and never seeing each other again.
> Some may say she should have not divorced her husband, but I believe her
> principles are more important than anything else.
>
> If I were Andrea Rossi and if my technology had been copied without
> permission (I'm not saying it has) I would let the world consider me the
> most evil man in history. I would sleep just fine at night knowing that I
> did the right thing, by standing up for not only my rights, and the
> property rights of all other inventors.
>
> A world without absolute rights is not worth living in. Sadly, the way the
> world is going, individuals are having their rights violated more and more
> each day.
>
>   --
> *From:* OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
> *To:* vortex-l 
> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2012 1:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
>
> noone noone sez:
>
> > If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
> > it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
> > dollars from a lawsuit.
> >
> > The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
> > forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
> > by selling the products from my own company.
>
> Good luck. You give me the impression that you think you can go to
> court and win your case in a just few weeks, and then everything will
> be honky dorey. Think again. Think years. Many, many years.
>
> And during all those contentious years of unending litigation that
> will make many a lawyer rich, and while you are demanding all those
> recalls, and to a complete halt to sales, just think of all the good
> PR you will be generating for yourself. People across the planet are
> desperate for any kind of cheaper energy. But your sense of demanding
> "justice" could end up potentially denying a huge portion of the
> population that opportunity - all on personal principle. I'm sure they
> will all understand your personal sense of outrage for not getting
> even richer off of your invention. But of course you'll be right. You
> have that going for you.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I would be pissed off, too, if someone stole my
> invention. But consider the ramifications of how best to get even with
> the competition. Try to get even without turning yourself in to the
> energy pariah of the century - someone who will be written up in the
> history books as having denied millions of desperate individuals
> access to cheap energy because he was unhappy over the fact that
> someone was making profits off of something that he thought he should
> be profiting over himself.
>
> > If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any
> > credit, money, or other compensation. I would also hope he
> > would turn down the nobel prize. I hope his mission in life
> > becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology without
> > permission.
>
> Shish! I'm glad I don't think the way you do.
>
> Regards
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jarold McWilliams]

If everyone was better off, including yourself, you'd still follow your 
"values"?  I completely disagree with this.  All I care about is making 
people's lives better.  
On Feb 24, 2012, at 12:32 PM, noone noone wrote:

> When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not matter what people 
> think of me.
> 
> I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks Christians, "who would 
> Jesus bomb." At that point I'm automatically considered an evil liberal.
> 
> In this life you can usually take two roads when it comes to most decisions. 
> The first road is the one that is a compromise of your principles, and 
> branches out to many different roads. This road is often easier to ride on, 
> has fewer bumps, and makes a commute easy. The second road is the one where 
> you refuse to budge one inch on your principles. It is full of bumps, and can 
> easily get you a flat tire. For example, a woman divorcing her husband after 
> being cheated on (THE FIRST TIME) despite having ten kids and no way to 
> financially support them, and her husband apologizing. Divorce is the only 
> appropriate answer, even if it could mean the kids end up being sent to 
> orphanages and never seeing each other again. Some may say she should have 
> not divorced her husband, but I believe her principles are more important 
> than anything else.
> 
> If I were Andrea Rossi and if my technology had been copied without 
> permission (I'm not saying it has) I would let the world consider me the most 
> evil man in history. I would sleep just fine at night knowing that I did the 
> right thing, by standing up for not only my rights, and the property rights 
> of all other inventors.
> 
> A world without absolute rights is not worth living in. Sadly, the way the 
> world is going, individuals are having their rights violated more and more 
> each day.
> 
> From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
> To: vortex-l  
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
> noone noone sez:
> 
> > If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
> > it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
> > dollars from a lawsuit.
> >
> > The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
> > forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
> > by selling the products from my own company.
> 
> Good luck. You give me the impression that you think you can go to
> court and win your case in a just few weeks, and then everything will
> be honky dorey. Think again. Think years. Many, many years.
> 
> And during all those contentious years of unending litigation that
> will make many a lawyer rich, and while you are demanding all those
> recalls, and to a complete halt to sales, just think of all the good
> PR you will be generating for yourself. People across the planet are
> desperate for any kind of cheaper energy. But your sense of demanding
> "justice" could end up potentially denying a huge portion of the
> population that opportunity - all on personal principle. I'm sure they
> will all understand your personal sense of outrage for not getting
> even richer off of your invention. But of course you'll be right. You
> have that going for you.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I would be pissed off, too, if someone stole my
> invention. But consider the ramifications of how best to get even with
> the competition. Try to get even without turning yourself in to the
> energy pariah of the century - someone who will be written up in the
> history books as having denied millions of desperate individuals
> access to cheap energy because he was unhappy over the fact that
> someone was making profits off of something that he thought he should
> be profiting over himself.
> 
> > If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any
> > credit, money, or other compensation. I would also hope he
> > would turn down the nobel prize. I hope his mission in life
> > becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology without
> > permission.
> 
> Shish! I'm glad I don't think the way you do.
> 
> Regards
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

When it comes to sticking to my principles, it does not matter what people 
think of me.

I'm the kind of person who goes into church and asks Christians, "who would 
Jesus bomb." At that point I'm automatically considered an evil liberal.

In this life you can usually take two roads when it comes to most decisions. 
The first road is the one that is a compromise of your principles, and branches 
out to many different roads. This road is often easier to ride on, has fewer 
bumps, and makes a commute easy. The second road is the one where you refuse to 
budge one inch on your principles. It is full of bumps, and can easily get you 
a flat tire. For example, a woman divorcing her husband after being cheated on 
(THE FIRST TIME) despite having ten kids and no way to financially support 
them, and her husband apologizing. Divorce is the only appropriate answer, even 
if it could mean the kids end up being sent to orphanages and never seeing each 
other again. Some may say she should have not divorced her husband, but I 
believe her principles are more important than anything else.

If I were Andrea Rossi and if my technology had been copied without permission 
(I'm not saying it has) I would let the world consider me the most evil man in 
history. I would sleep just fine at night knowing that I did the right thing, 
by standing up for not only my rights, and the property rights of all other 
inventors.

A world without absolute rights is not worth living in. Sadly, the way the 
world is going, individuals are having their rights violated more and more each 
day.




 From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
To: vortex-l  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 
noone noone sez:

> If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
> it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
> dollars from a lawsuit.
>
> The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
> forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
> by selling the products from my own company.

Good luck. You give me the impression that you think you can go to
court and win your case in a just few weeks, and then everything will
be honky dorey. Think again. Think years. Many, many years.

And during all those contentious years of unending litigation that
will make many a lawyer rich, and while you are demanding all those
recalls, and to a complete halt to sales, just think of all the good
PR you will be generating for yourself. People across the planet are
desperate for any kind of cheaper energy. But your sense of demanding
"justice" could end up potentially denying a huge portion of the
population that opportunity - all on personal principle. I'm sure they
will all understand your personal sense of outrage for not getting
even richer off of your invention. But of course you'll be right. You
have that going for you.

Don't get me wrong. I would be pissed off, too, if someone stole my
invention. But consider the ramifications of how best to get even with
the competition. Try to get even without turning yourself in to the
energy pariah of the century - someone who will be written up in the
history books as having denied millions of desperate individuals
access to cheap energy because he was unhappy over the fact that
someone was making profits off of something that he thought he should
be profiting over himself.

> If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any
> credit, money, or other compensation. I would also hope he
> would turn down the nobel prize. I hope his mission in life
> becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology without
> permission.

Shish! I'm glad I don't think the way you do.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:Magnets In a Conductive Circuit

[Zell, Chris]

I was wondering if there was a way to get electrical energy by using a 
permanent magnet in a conductive path with iron wire.  I think the Roy Meyer 
device worked this way, as well as perhaps the Coler devices that were exposed 
by British Intelligence after the war.

http://www.rexresearch.com/meyers/meyers.htm

Were there similiar devices found early in the development of electrical 
distribution systems?  I'm thinking that it might be possible to get a magnetic 
field to oscillate thru an iron conductor and create current.  This would be 
different from the MEG device that probably just creates apparent power without 
real gain.

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

noone noone sez:

> If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied
> it without my permission, I would not accept a trillion
> dollars from a lawsuit.
>
> The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be
> forced to re-call all their products. Then I would make money
> by selling the products from my own company.

Good luck. You give me the impression that you think you can go to
court and win your case in a just few weeks, and then everything will
be honky dorey. Think again. Think years. Many, many years.

And during all those contentious years of unending litigation that
will make many a lawyer rich, and while you are demanding all those
recalls, and to a complete halt to sales, just think of all the good
PR you will be generating for yourself. People across the planet are
desperate for any kind of cheaper energy. But your sense of demanding
"justice" could end up potentially denying a huge portion of the
population that opportunity - all on personal principle. I'm sure they
will all understand your personal sense of outrage for not getting
even richer off of your invention. But of course you'll be right. You
have that going for you.

Don't get me wrong. I would be pissed off, too, if someone stole my
invention. But consider the ramifications of how best to get even with
the competition. Try to get even without turning yourself in to the
energy pariah of the century - someone who will be written up in the
history books as having denied millions of desperate individuals
access to cheap energy because he was unhappy over the fact that
someone was making profits off of something that he thought he should
be profiting over himself.

> If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any
> credit, money, or other compensation. I would also hope he
> would turn down the nobel prize. I hope his mission in life
> becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology without
> permission.

Shish! I'm glad I don't think the way you do.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jed Rothwell]

Jouni Valkonen 

Indeed Jed, I found this somewhat hilarious, that people (e.g. Noone noone)
> are accusing Defkalion about IP-theft.
>

I do not think he is accusing them of anything. He is just saying that
hypothetically, if they did steal it (the way Rossi has alleged, that would
be tragic.

I do not think they stole anything from anyone.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

For the record, I do not know if Defkalion is using a copy of Rossi's 
technology (or a technology developed after obtaining Rossi's IP without 
permission) or not. I do not know what the truth is about the situation. 
However, I find the comments from yourself and others who seem not to care 
about property rights very troublesome. All it seems some people care about is 
this technology getting out there regardless if theft has taken place. A world 
that allows theft to take place for the good of masses is not a world that I 
would want to live in. It would be a socialist, big government nightmare in 
which the individuals rights are sacrificed for the good of the many.

I want cold fusion and other exotic technologies to change the world. I want it 
to save lives. But not at the cost of the inventors property rights!

Again, money is not the issue here. If I were Rossi, money is not what would 
matter to me. I would turn down any dime of compensation. I would throw the 
Noble Prize on the ground and spit on it. I would only be satisfied if other 
companies that were copying my tech were forced to stop doing so.





 From: Jarold McWilliams 
To: noone noone  
Cc: "vortex-l@eskimo.com"  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

That's not going to happen.  Almost everyone who has made a lot of money off of 
new technology has stolen it from someone else.  If Rossi really does have 
something, I hope he does get the money and fame he deserves, but I'm much more 
concerned about getting this product out to the public as soon as possible, and 
I'm not willing to wait for Rossi so he can make money.

On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:55 AM, noone noone wrote:

If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied it without my 
permission, I would not accept a trillion dollars from a lawsuit.
>
>
>The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be forced to re-call 
>all their products. Then I would make money by selling the products from my 
>own company.
>
>
>
>If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any credit, money, or 
>other compensation. I would also hope he would turn down the nobel prize. I 
>hope his mission in life becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology 
>without permission.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Jed Rothwell 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 9:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
>
>noone noone  wrote:
> 
>Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
>property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>>
>
>
>Nonsense. Companies use technology all the time without permission. This would 
>not be a horrible tragedy; it would be an economic windfall for a bunch of 
>lawyers. There would be negotiations and possibly trials. Eventually Defkalion 
>would pay Rossi a large sum of money, the way they originally intended to do.
>
>
>In situations like this, sales continue normally while the lawyers battled it 
>out. People buying the equipment would never know there is a legal battle 
>going on unless they read the business section of the newspapers.
>
>
>All important technology always escapes from the inventor. That is why we have 
>patents. If there is a problem here, it is because either the Patent Office 
>has failed to do their job, or Rossi has not submitted a properly written 
>patent. His previous patents looked invalid to me.
>
>
>- Jed
>
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jarold McWilliams]

That's not going to happen.  Almost everyone who has made a lot of money off of 
new technology has stolen it from someone else.  If Rossi really does have 
something, I hope he does get the money and fame he deserves, but I'm much more 
concerned about getting this product out to the public as soon as possible, and 
I'm not willing to wait for Rossi so he can make money.
On Feb 24, 2012, at 11:55 AM, noone noone wrote:

> If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied it without my 
> permission, I would not accept a trillion dollars from a lawsuit.
> 
> The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be forced to 
> re-call all their products. Then I would make money by selling the products 
> from my own company.
> 
> If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any credit, money, 
> or other compensation. I would also hope he would turn down the nobel prize. 
> I hope his mission in life becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology 
> without permission.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jed Rothwell 
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 9:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
> noone noone  wrote:
>  
> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
> 
> Nonsense. Companies use technology all the time without permission. This 
> would not be a horrible tragedy; it would be an economic windfall for a bunch 
> of lawyers. There would be negotiations and possibly trials. Eventually 
> Defkalion would pay Rossi a large sum of money, the way they originally 
> intended to do.
> 
> In situations like this, sales continue normally while the lawyers battled it 
> out. People buying the equipment would never know there is a legal battle 
> going on unless they read the business section of the newspapers.
> 
> All important technology always escapes from the inventor. That is why we 
> have patents. If there is a problem here, it is because either the Patent 
> Office has failed to do their job, or Rossi has not submitted a properly 
> written patent. His previous patents looked invalid to me.
> 
> - Jed
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

A principled inventor would not accept a penny in damages in exchange for the 
other company to continue selling the products. A principled inventor would 
demand that the other company re-call their products, and be forced to STOP 
SELLING THEM.

If I was an injured inventor, I would want sales to stop immediately. I would 
want them to stop so I could sell the products from my company, or from 
officially licensed parties. The lure of a hundred billion dollars would not be 
enough to make me sacrifice my principles.

If Rossi has had his technology stolen or has his technology stolen in the 
future (I do not know if it has happened or will happen) then I hope he does 
not receive the Noble Prize, or any payments from those who have copied his 
technology. I would hope for one thing, that the companies who have copied his 
technology are forced to recall any products they have sold, and stop selling 
any more.

If I was an inventor who had my tech stolen by Microsoft or Apple, I would 
demand the same thing. Even if it meant every single iPAD or iPhone that used 
my technology being taken off the market. If it bankrupts the other company 
having to pay back all their customers, so be it. 




 From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 
From Jed,

> noone noone  wrote:
>
>>
>> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual
>> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)

> Nonsense.

I agree,

What well-known company has not filed suit against a potential
competitor for daring to kick the tires of their product. Think of
Apple. Meanwhile, it's business as usual. Or as Trump would say, it's
just business.

Meanwhile, nobody wants sales to stop. Cessation of sales would
translate to no more money that could be awarded to the injured party!

If DGT ends up whipping Rossi's ass, hopefully the inventor will end
up with a reasonably satisfactory out-of-court consolation prize. ...A
reasonable sum, perhaps amounting to several hundred million Euros -
for pain and suffering.

We'll see.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

If I invented a billion dollar technology and someone copied it without my 
permission, I would not accept a trillion dollars from a lawsuit.

The only thing I would accept is for the other company to be forced to re-call 
all their products. Then I would make money by selling the products from my own 
company.


If Rossi's technology has been stolen, I hope he refuses any credit, money, or 
other compensation. I would also hope he would turn down the nobel prize. I 
hope his mission in life becomes to stop anyone who has used his technology 
without permission.





 From: Jed Rothwell 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

noone noone  wrote:
 
Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>

Nonsense. Companies use technology all the time without permission. This would 
not be a horrible tragedy; it would be an economic windfall for a bunch of 
lawyers. There would be negotiations and possibly trials. Eventually Defkalion 
would pay Rossi a large sum of money, the way they originally intended to do.

In situations like this, sales continue normally while the lawyers battled it 
out. People buying the equipment would never know there is a legal battle going 
on unless they read the business section of the newspapers.

All important technology always escapes from the inventor. That is why we have 
patents. If there is a problem here, it is because either the Patent Office has 
failed to do their job, or Rossi has not submitted a properly written patent. 
His previous patents looked invalid to me.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jouni Valkonen]

Indeed Jed, I found this somewhat hilarious, that people (e.g. Noone noone) are 
accusing Defkalion about IP-theft. 

I have previously stated, that current patent legislation is outdated, because 
the benefit of IP-rights cannot even remotely offset, the cost of lawyers and 
bureaucracy involved in both public sector and private sector. This is 
especially true in medical sector where patentability is grossly abused in 
order to accumulate capital and suppressing competition.

If Alex's story is true how they acquired the composition of catalyst, then 
Rossi willingly gave and showed the formula to Defkalion. It is not Defkalion's 
duty to close their eyes if Rossi is showing his technology. However, I 
somewhat doubt that and if Defkalion has something, they figured it out 
independently ― perhaps on a basis of minor hints.

Also as Jed stated, it is purely Rossi's own fault if he did not do proper 
patenting of his technology. I have some doubts that patenting cold fusion 
phenomena as such is not going to give sufficient IP protection.

Also my guess is that Rossi has serious problems of making his cold fusion 
technology commercially viable. Thus he is probably delaying that his 'letting 
customers decide' -approach several years. Therefore, I would say that it is 
great service to humanity, if Defkalion has 'stolen' and then improved his 
technology to be commercially viable.

Someone should have 'stolen' Rossi's cold fusion technology back in 2008!

Also I find it hilarious, that Defkalion is accused about theft only because he 
stole something from Rossi that did not work (low COP and great instability), 
but made it working technology (high COP and great temperature and stability). 
I cannot comprehend that it could be the same technology, if Defkalion's 
technology is claimed to work where as Rossi's ecat technology is claimed to 
not work commercially viable manner.

Of course main problem we have here that, there are too many of those, who are 
claiming things... But as I have been negative towards Defkalion, they can earn 
my trust, if they are really going to do what they have been claiming. These 
tests would be first concrete step forwards taken by Defkalion.

 ―Jouni

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Feb 2012, at 16:53, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> noone noone  wrote:
>  
> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
> 
> Nonsense. Companies use technology all the time without permission. This 
> would not be a horrible tragedy; it would be an economic windfall for a bunch 
> of lawyers. There would be negotiations and possibly trials. Eventually 
> Defkalion would pay Rossi a large sum of money, the way they originally 
> intended to do.
> 
> In situations like this, sales continue normally while the lawyers battled it 
> out. People buying the equipment would never know there is a legal battle 
> going on unless they read the business section of the newspapers.
> 
> All important technology always escapes from the inventor. That is why we 
> have patents. If there is a problem here, it is because either the Patent 
> Office has failed to do their job, or Rossi has not submitted a properly 
> written patent. His previous patents looked invalid to me.
> 
> - Jed
> 

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Chemical Engineer]

It's just b'ness.  Leave "tragedy" to the novels.

On Friday, February 24, 2012, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson <
svj.orionwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> From Jed,
>
>> noone noone  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his
intellectual
>>> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>> Nonsense.
>
> I agree,
>
> What well-known company has not filed suit against a potential
> competitor for daring to kick the tires of their product. Think of
> Apple. Meanwhile, it's business as usual. Or as Trump would say, it's
> just business.
>
> Meanwhile, nobody wants sales to stop. Cessation of sales would
> translate to no more money that could be awarded to the injured party!
>
> If DGT ends up whipping Rossi's ass, hopefully the inventor will end
> up with a reasonably satisfactory out-of-court consolation prize. ...A
> reasonable sum, perhaps amounting to several hundred million Euros -
> for pain and suffering.
>
> We'll see.
>
> Regards
> Steven Vincent Johnson
> www.OrionWorks.com
> www.zazzle.com/orionworks
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From Jed,

> noone noone  wrote:
>
>>
>> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual
>> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)

> Nonsense.

I agree,

What well-known company has not filed suit against a potential
competitor for daring to kick the tires of their product. Think of
Apple. Meanwhile, it's business as usual. Or as Trump would say, it's
just business.

Meanwhile, nobody wants sales to stop. Cessation of sales would
translate to no more money that could be awarded to the injured party!

If DGT ends up whipping Rossi's ass, hopefully the inventor will end
up with a reasonably satisfactory out-of-court consolation prize. ...A
reasonable sum, perhaps amounting to several hundred million Euros -
for pain and suffering.

We'll see.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Wolf Fischer]

Hm wouldn't it be better if they would announce such a change?
Now i am sitting here and constantly hitting "F5" on my keyboard with 
the opened Defkalion site in front of me ;)



maybe they change their idea, under the demand of the tester,
to avoid the crazy behavior of fans and pathoskeptics.

also maybe the testers don't wan't to be identified before the test 
succeed to avoid looking ridiculous...


cold fusion is really frightening for corp and officials...

I feel like a kid waiting for santa klaus in front of the chimney.

2012/2/24 Wolf Fischer mailto:wolffisc...@gmx.de>>

I wonder where the test protocols are... It's by now nearly 16:00
in Athens, so when do the tests start? The protocols should be
published before the tests begin AFAIK.



The way i see it (thanks to Jed) the first paper about Ni-H goes
back to 1979, and the first Focardi paper about Ni-H was
published in 1994.
Now, as far as i know,  Defkalion has not sold any Hyperion yet.
But if the tests are conclusive the most important result will be
that all doubts about the technology will be lifted.
It does not matter who runs the test at all.

Later on, IP issues can be solved in court or by contract, if needed.

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Alain Sepeda]

maybe they change their idea, under the demand of the tester,
to avoid the crazy behavior of fans and pathoskeptics.

also maybe the testers don't wan't to be identified before the test succeed
to avoid looking ridiculous...

cold fusion is really frightening for corp and officials...

I feel like a kid waiting for santa klaus in front of the chimney.

2012/2/24 Wolf Fischer 

>  I wonder where the test protocols are... It's by now nearly 16:00 in
> Athens, so when do the tests start? The protocols should be published
> before the tests begin AFAIK.
>
>
>  The way i see it (thanks to Jed) the first paper about Ni-H goes back to
> 1979, and the first Focardi paper about Ni-H was published in 1994.
>  Now, as far as i know,  Defkalion has not sold any Hyperion yet.
> But if the tests are conclusive the most important result will be that all
> doubts about the technology will be lifted.
> It does not matter who runs the test at all.
>
>  Later on, IP issues can be solved in court or by contract, if needed.
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Dick Deal Dead

[Terry Blanton]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Harry Veeder  wrote:
> "I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food
> trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a
> hamster and your father smelt of elderberries." (guess the movie)
>

Arsenic and Old Lace

;-)

T

RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

[Zell, Chris]

These battery pulsing/shuttling devices have been around since the Ed Grey 
motor. Whatever it is, it gets rediscovered and rediscovered.

I personally think that Ed Shoulders Charge Clusters explain both LENR and 
these devices. If have ever read his main patents, you are witness to a huge 
amount of careful and extensive experimentation. 

-Original Message-
From: Alan Fletcher [mailto:a...@well.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 8:31 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report : Theory?

Summary : could be an LENR effect -- Lead+H or Tin+H -- Tin HAS been a 
component of some positive experiments.

> From: "Robert Leguillon" 
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 9:32:32 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report

> What I witnessed, along with three other scientists that I brought 
> along -- all more qualified than myself -- was a 5 kW unit powered by 
> four batteries, running for three hours continuous, driving a load of 
> approximately 4 KW. According to the amp-hour rating of those 
> batteries (102 Ah each), without being recharged from an external 
> source, they should have lasted only 35 minutes before running down 
> completely, no longer able to power the system.
> The load was roughly 4 kW, comprised of:
> 
> - a two-burner stove, each burner consuming 1 kW (rated power 
> according to manufacturer)
> - a toaster that consumed 850 Watts (rated power)
> - a pancake maker that consumes 1 kW (rated power)
> - A 40-Watt fan (rated power)
> http://pesn.com/2012/02/22/9602042_South_African_Fuel-Free_Generator_P
> reparing_for_Market/

Except for the fan, these are all resistive loads, and hard to fool. Note in 
the report that for the larger units they had an industrial resistor bank at 
hand as a load.

AND http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg63222.html

… but as we have mentioned here on vortex many times, if this battery shuttling 
technique, using back EMF, does work – and there is no firm proof that it does 
but lots of positive anecdotal evidence, then the reason it works is probably 
related to some from of LENR in the battery itself !

IOW - the battery, which is an electrochemical cell, not unlike the ones used 
in P&F and most of LENR, is the active source of power. 

Lead-acid batteries seem to be particularly adaptable to the technique. NB:
the sum of the first three electrons in the valence shell of the atom of Pb, 
has net ionization potential of 54.4 eV, which is the prime Rydberg value for 
the T-effect (Thermacore effect) which is seen in experiments going back to 
1990, first patented by Thermacore.

Jones
- - - - - - - - - - 

Lets presume for the moment that the output is real. 

The effect occurs only in lead-acid batteries, during the discharge phase, at a 
time when the negative plate is mostly lead.

(During this phase the other battery is recharged -- their roles are switched 
periodically)

Discharge 

Negative plate reaction: Pb(s) + HSO− 4(aq) → PbSO4(s) + H+(aq) + 2e− Positive 
plate reaction: PbO2(s) + HSO− 4(aq) + 3H+(aq) + 2e− → PbSO4(s) + 2H2O(l)

So hydrogen is intimately involved with both plates. This may be analogous to 
the classical LENR "loading" requirement.

Secondly, a high-frequency FUTZ is applied to the discharging battery. Again, 
note the similarity to the various "triggers" required for LENR -- particularly 
voltage pulses.

So at least TWO of the required LENR conditions are satisfied.

So ... what are the candidate metals?

a) Lead --  but I can't find any reports of Lead in LENR (except in the solder 
on the terminals).

But if we look at : Plates 

Practical cells are usually not made with pure lead but have small amounts of 
antimony, tin, calcium or selenium alloyed in the plate material to add 
strength and simplify manufacture. 

b) Tin -- NOW we start to get some hits:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MenloveHOreproducib.pdf

REPRODUCIBLE NEUTRON EMISSION MEASUREMENTS FROM Ti METAL IN PRESSURIZED D2 GAS 
H. O. Menlove, ... Los Alamos National Laboratory, Jones Brigham Young 
University

During the past year, we have measured neutron emission from samples of 
titanium (Ti) metal and sponge in pressurized D2 gas.  By measuring 
high-mass samples (300 g Ti) over several weeks, with many liquid nitrogen 
temperature cycles, we have detected neutron emission above the background from 
most of the samples with a significance level of 3 to 9 sigma

ALL of the active samples contain some Ti662 (Ti, 6% Al, 6%V, and 2% Sn) 

Also see
Geo-fusion and Cold Nucleosynthesis


NEW PHYSICAL EFFECTS IN METAL DEUTERIDES 


Tin has also been mentioned as a possible surface contaminant on Pd.

c) antimony calcium or selenium
(I haven't searched these yet)

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Jed Rothwell]

noone noone  wrote:


> Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual
> property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>

Nonsense. Companies use technology all the time without permission. This
would not be a horrible tragedy; it would be an economic windfall for a
bunch of lawyers. There would be negotiations and possibly trials.
Eventually Defkalion would pay Rossi a large sum of money, the way they
originally intended to do.

In situations like this, sales continue normally while the lawyers battled
it out. People buying the equipment would never know there is a legal
battle going on unless they read the business section of the newspapers.

All important technology always escapes from the inventor. That is why we
have patents. If there is a problem here, it is because either the Patent
Office has failed to do their job, or Rossi has not submitted a properly
written patent. His previous patents looked invalid to me.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[Wolf Fischer]

I wonder where the test protocols are... It's by now nearly 16:00 in 
Athens, so when do the tests start? The protocols should be published 
before the tests begin AFAIK.


The way i see it (thanks to Jed) the first paper about Ni-H goes back 
to 1979, and the first Focardi paper about Ni-H was published in 1994.

Now, as far as i know,  Defkalion has not sold any Hyperion yet.
But if the tests are conclusive the most important result will be that 
all doubts about the technology will be lifted.

It does not matter who runs the test at all.

Later on, IP issues can be solved in court or by contract, if needed.

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[zer tte]

The way i see it (thanks to Jed) the first paper about Ni-H goes back to 1979, 
and the first Focardi paper about Ni-H was published in 1994.
Now, as far as i know,  Defkalion has not sold any Hyperion yet.
But if the tests are conclusive the most important result will be that all 
doubts about the technology will be lifted.
It does not matter who runs the test at all.

Later on, IP issues can be solved in court or by contract, if needed.

[Vo]:friends are helping

[Peter Gluck]

These two Forums are the places where I have friends, some have
helped me but many others can help me in person or have to ask
their friends. This is surely one of my last Projectsa nd i want to
see it on the good way- to accomplishment:
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com/2012/02/list-of-languages-for-translation-of-my.html


Thank you for any help, advice, suggestion, connection with the Solvers,
Peter

-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

2 and 3 would be a tragedy, because it would mean the Hyperion is not original. 
It could also mean that they are using Rossi's IP without permission.

I hope Defkalion's technology is original. It very well may be. But if it is 
not, it is a shame that they did not simply pay Rossi earlier in 2011 so they 
could continue working together. Instead, if 2 or 3 is true, Rossi may be able 
to use legal means to stop them from using the tech without permission.


I am really hoping the Defkalion technology is original and works exactly as 
they claim. If that is the case, it is a huge breakthrough that will change the 
world.




 From: Charly Sistovaris 
To: noone noone  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

#1 I doubt it
#2 & #3 the only tragedy is if ecat's a hoax...


On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 10:31 AM, noone noone  wrote:

But whose technology are they going to be testing?
>
>Possibility #1 -- Their own tech they developed from scratch. (THIS WOULD BE 
>WORTH CELEBRATING!)
>
>Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
>property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>Possibility #3 -- Their own technology derived from information gathered about 
>the E-Cat they were not supposed to have, that may have been acquired without 
>Rossi's permission. (This would still be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>If number one is the case, I will be eager to find out the results of the 
>testing. I will also celebrate if the results are positive.
>
>If number two or three is the case, I hope that Rossi is prepared to defend 
>his intellectual property.
>
>
>
>
> From: Jarold McWilliams 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:34 PM
>Subject: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
>
>I thought I'd bring the discussion back on topic a little bit.  Not too long 
>before the testing starts.  It is now the day of the test and if the Hyperion 
>performs as claimed, it is the moment society has needed for a long time.  We 
>probably won't get very good results at least for a few days, but hopefully we 
>get positive news very soon.  
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

The big issue here is the catalysts and special preparation of the nickel 
powders (enrichment with certain isotopes). If they are using his catalyst or 
developed a catalyst of their own by examining the catalysts of the E-Cat when 
they were not supposed to do so, I think that is unethical. Also, he claims 
that his enrichment methods are proprietary.

Even if they avoided making a copy by having access to his catalyst when they 
were not allowed to do so, they are still in the wrong.

The way I see it, if they ever gained access to Rossi's IP without permission 
and used it in the development of their technology, their technology is not 
original. The only way for their technology to be one hundred percent original 
is if they never gained any information about the E-Cat without permission, or 
if they did, used engineers to develop the Hyperion that were never given 
access to that information.


In addition, Andrea Rossi has stated that he regularly produces 1600C inside 
the reactor cores. The units that he is building for home use and in one 
megawatt plants will probably have lower internal temperatures, for stability. 
The ECat can produce high temperatures, but the problem is at high temperatures 
the system can go unstable, and melt the nickel powder.

They may or may not be ahead of Rossi. They have not allowed a single test so 
far. It is possible they are ahead of the ECat, but we need test data to find 
out.




 From: Alain Sepeda 
To: noone noone  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

from the data they give :
the H2 pressure is higher (50bars)
no radiofrequency
capacity to work much above 400C (600C,900C)
many catalyst tested
much better control (by pulse modulation), perfect stability.

it seems that they simply reinvent it from the asic Ni+H idea, probably using 
public data,
and maybe sobt hint from what they see, to avoid copying or where to look at...

if they are serious they use what they know about e-cat not to copy it.

clearly they are much ahead, even compare to new rossi data...



2012/2/24 noone noone 

But whose technology are they going to be testing?
>
>Possibility #1 -- Their own tech they developed from scratch. (THIS WOULD BE 
>WORTH CELEBRATING!)
>
>Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
>property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>Possibility #3 -- Their own technology derived from information gathered about 
>the E-Cat they were not supposed to have, that may have been acquired without 
>Rossi's permission. (This would still be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>If number one is the case, I will be eager to find out the results of the 
>testing. I will also celebrate if the results are positive.
>
>If number two or three is the case, I hope that Rossi is prepared to defend 
>his intellectual property.
>
>
>
>
> From: Jarold McWilliams 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:34 PM
>Subject: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
>
>I thought I'd bring the discussion back on topic a little bit.  Not too long 
>before the testing starts.  It is now the day of the test and if the Hyperion 
>performs as claimed, it is the moment society has needed for a long time.  We 
>probably won't get very good results at least for a few days, but hopefully we 
>get positive news very soon.  
>
>
>

[Vo]:Epistemology... why science failed so hard on cold fusion and other...

[Alain Sepeda]

an interesting opinion article
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/02/24/cold-winter-after-progress-in-cold-fusion/

I agree on their analysis on the orginin of the problems we have those days
with
science and consensus, preventing real discovery

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

Recognition is not the issue here. The issue is property rights. 


Even if Apple, Google, and Microsoft get away with stealing other companies 
technologies (or having to pay a fine) it is not OK. If a company is found to 
be using another company's tech without permission, the offending company 
should not be allowed to sell products using the tech.

We do not know if Defkalion is using Rossi's tech (or tech directly inspired by 
the E-Cat) or not. But if they are, I hope Rossi will do everything legal and 
lawful in his power to stop them.

If they are using an original technology, then I hope they sell a billion 
Hyperions.




 From: Chemical Engineer 
To: noone noone  
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 

If the devices work, I think all options are OK.  Apple, Google, Microsoft and 
others are in patent wars all the time.  It's just business.  Who knows, the IP 
rights may have already expired on some of this stuff anyway.  Rossi will get 
his recognition as one of the early inventors/developers and the lawyers will 
get their fees!


On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 4:31 AM, noone noone  wrote:

But whose technology are they going to be testing?
>
>Possibility #1 -- Their own tech they developed from scratch. (THIS WOULD BE 
>WORTH CELEBRATING!)
>
>Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
>property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>Possibility #3 -- Their own technology derived from information gathered about 
>the E-Cat they were not supposed to have, that may have been acquired without 
>Rossi's permission. (This would still be a horrible tragedy.)
>
>If number one is the case, I will be eager to find out the results of the 
>testing. I will also celebrate if the results are positive.
>
>If number two or three is the case, I hope that Rossi is prepared to defend 
>his intellectual property.
>
>
>
>
> From: Jarold McWilliams 
>To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
>Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:34 PM
>Subject: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
> 
>
>I thought I'd bring the discussion back on topic a little bit.  Not too long 
>before the testing starts.  It is now the day of the test and if the Hyperion 
>performs as claimed, it is the moment society has needed for a long time.  We 
>probably won't get very good results at least for a few days, but hopefully we 
>get positive news very soon.  
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report

[Chemical Engineer]

Frank, thanks, I now understand your approach.  I thought you were using
the wire as a heating element.

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 3:32 PM,  wrote:

> The Vaseline only holds the nickel dust on the wire.  If it melts, good,
> then I will have made some heat.
> I do not worry abut the Vaseline but a I do worry about the hydrogen.  I
> do the experiments in a small plastic bottle
> to limit the amount hydrogen and shrapnel.  I energize remotely (outside
> if possible) from a range of over 20ft.
>
>  I am attempting to produce RF energy and heat.
>
>  I do not even attempt high pressure experiments with my personal
> resources and facilities.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chemical Engineer 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 11:24 am
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:South Africa Fuel-Free Generator Report
>
>  Frank,
>
>  Vaseline melts around 167 F.  Aren't you going to end up with it running
> off the wire and puddling at the bottom of your tube along with a lump of
> Ni powder?
>
>  Or are you going to try real "cold fusion" and keep it below 167 F?
>
>  "Petroleum jelly is a flammable, semi-solid mixture of hydrocarbons,
> having a melting-point usually ranging from a little below to a few degrees
> above 167°F (75°C)"
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:29 AM,  wrote:
>
>> All electrical devices depend on the motion of electrons.  These motions
>> are fully described by Newton's and Maxwell's formulations.
>> No over-unity is possible.  Cold fusion, on the other hand, depends on the
>> motion
>> of free nucleons.  Now we are dealing with the motion of the strong
>> nuclear field.  Its a new ball game, not well described by anyone, and
>> free energy may be possible.
>>
>>  What I did was apply Maxwells equations to moving carriers of the
>> strong nuclear force and showed, at least in my mind,
>> free energy was possible.  What happens is a strong long range nuclear
>> magnetic force is induced.
>>
>>  My work on that area is now complete.
>>
>>  http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterf.html
>>
>>  I am now doing what I consider to be my last experiment.  I have a
>> small copper tube, the kind that connect refrigerators to the water system
>> and I am using it as a wave guide.  In the tube I have placed a wire coated
>> with Vaseline.  In the Vaseline I have embedded micrometer meter sized
>> nickel particles.  The device is now soaking in hydrogen.  After a week or
>> so I will stimulate the device with sparks.  I have a neon bulb connected
>> to the end of the pipe to monitor the RF energy in the system.  I will
>> monitor the bulb and temperature of the device.  I don't expect it to work
>> because I have already built devices of similar design that did not work.
>>
>>  That's were I am at, papers complete and last experiment in progress.
>>  Don't expect to hear much from me in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Frank Zndiarsic
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Dick Deal Dead

[Chemical Engineer]

Monty Python

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Harry Veeder  wrote:

> "I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food
> trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a
> hamster and your father smelt of elderberries." (guess the movie)
>
> Harry
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Rocha 
> wrote:
> > He was  just  an  asshole.  No  more,  no  less. And  a dumb one.
> >
> > 2012/2/21 Terry Blanton 
> >>
> >> http://ecatnews.com/?p=2081
> >>
> >> I guess it wasn't enough to simply have it proven to him alone.
> >>
> >> T
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daniel Rocha - RJ
> > danieldi...@gmail.com
> >
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time

[noone noone]

But whose technology are they going to be testing?

Possibility #1 -- Their own tech they developed from scratch. (THIS WOULD BE 
WORTH CELEBRATING!)

Possibility #2 -- A copy cat of Rossi's technology, using his intellectual 
property without permission. (This would be a horrible tragedy.)

Possibility #3 -- Their own technology derived from information gathered about 
the E-Cat they were not supposed to have, that may have been acquired without 
Rossi's permission. (This would still be a horrible tragedy.)

If number one is the case, I will be eager to find out the results of the 
testing. I will also celebrate if the results are positive.

If number two or three is the case, I hope that Rossi is prepared to defend his 
intellectual property.




 From: Jarold McWilliams 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 11:34 PM
Subject: [Vo]:Test day in Greece time
 
I thought I'd bring the discussion back on topic a little bit.  Not too long 
before the testing starts.  It is now the day of the test and if the Hyperion 
performs as claimed, it is the moment society has needed for a long time.  We 
probably won't get very good results at least for a few days, but hopefully we 
get positive news very soon.  

Re: [Vo]:Dick Deal Dead

[Harry Veeder]

"I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food
trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a
hamster and your father smelt of elderberries." (guess the movie)

Harry

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 3:13 PM, Daniel Rocha  wrote:
> He was  just  an  asshole.  No  more,  no  less. And  a dumb one.
>
> 2012/2/21 Terry Blanton 
>>
>> http://ecatnews.com/?p=2081
>>
>> I guess it wasn't enough to simply have it proven to him alone.
>>
>> T
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel Rocha - RJ
> danieldi...@gmail.com
>