Re: [Wikimedia-l] Atayal Wikipedia and Seediq Wikipedia are officially online !

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Great news!
How do you say "Welcome" on those languages?

Galder

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Joyce 
Chen 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 11:28 AM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Atayal Wikipedia and Seediq Wikipedia are officially 
online !

Dear All,

Wikimedia Taiwan has a great news to share with all of you!

We are so happy to announced that the two of Taiwan's indigenous languages, the 
Atayal Wikipedia and Seediq Wikipedia are officially online!

In 2015, the Taiwan Ministry of Education launched the Indigenous languages 
Wikipedia project. Sakizaya Wikipedia was the first language release their 
Wikipedia in 2019. On April 15, 2021, Hitay-Payan and Lituk Teymu, who are 
another two languages Wikipedia project convener were happy to announce that 
Atayal Wikipedia and Seediq Wikipedia were online.

Since November 22, 2019, the release day of Sakizaya Wikipedia, there have been 
1,840 clauses added. The Wikimedia Taiwan and the Center for aboriginal studies 
of NCCU joined the Sakizaya Wikipedia workshop hosted by Sakizaya language 
organization on March 11-12, 2021 at the Hualien City. During the workshop, we 
taught Sakizaya people how to migrate Chinese modules into Sakizaya, and they 
translated all of them into Sakizaya. There are 50 pictures from Wikimedia 
Commons was enhanced by Sakizaya and over 100 Wikidata item and properties were 
translated into Sakizaya. Moreover, the Sakizaya hashtag "szy" for other 
Wikipedia sister projects was ready as well.

Atayal Wikipedia and Seediq Wikipedia were released on March 16, 2021, 
including the previous Sakizaya language, these are the 3 languages which first 
included in Wikipedia, there are in total 16 indigenous languages recognized as 
aboriginal by the Council of Indigenous People, Taiwan. The new Wikimedia 
language hashtag for Atayal (tay) and Seediq (trv) not only expanded the 
usability within Wikipedia but also between other Wiki projects, such as 
Wikimedia Common and Wikidata.

We are happy to preserve, promote and reuse Taiwan's indigenous languages 
through the release of the Wikimedia project, this is an milestone for all of 
us. We hope to assist all Indigenous continue finding ways to preserve their 
legacy and bring their languages and culture to the world.

Check out our meta-wiki page: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Taiwan/IncuWPTA

sincerely,
Joyce

--
陳禹先 Yuhsien Chen, Joyce (she/her/hers)
社團法人台灣維基媒體協會  Wikimedia Taiwan
Email: yuhsien.c...@wikimedia.tw
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Blocking users for Palestinian flag

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Friendly reminder: Slavery is against human rights.

From: Yaroslav Blanter 
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 2:22 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Blocking users for Palestinian flag

I do not know. Whoever puts a userbox "I support slavery" on their user page on 
the English Wikipedia invites a fast block does not matter what their edits in 
the articles are.

I do not think there is a universal answer to this question.

Yaroslav

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:31 PM Satdeep Gill 
mailto:satdeepg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
But was there something in the editing. People should be free to say FREE TIBET 
in their user pages, for instance but can be really reasonable editors.

In a way, we are also unbiased and neutral point of view is something we all 
look upto but can never trully achieve.

Best
Satdeep

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 4:57 PM Peter Southwood 
mailto:peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>> wrote:

The problem is which political opinions would be acceptable on a user page, and 
who gets to decide this. We are expected to edit neutrally, so expressing a 
political opinion on a user page could be  considered a declaration of 
partisanship which could extend to editing behaviour.

Cheers,

Peter



From: Frederick Noronha 
[mailto:fredericknoro...@gmail.com]
Sent: 30 June 2021 00:57
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Blocking users for Palestinian flag



Just seeking clarity:

Is there anything wrong with expressing a political opinion on a userpage?

A lot of our badges, flags, icons might have some or the other political 
history behind them, just that these are seen as more "normal" by today's 
standards. At one time, slavery too was considered quite legal.

Can't this be discussed in the public domain?

FN



On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 at 03:34, Gereon Kalkuhl 
mailto:gkalk...@freenet.de>> wrote:

Dear 4nn1|2,

Thank you for informing us about the incident. But to be clear: You write that 
it's about a Palestinian flag. Yet actually it's about a flag with a statement: 
free Palestine. There's a difference. And a member of the Persian Wikipedia 
removed the deletion request on Commons and kept the file on the same day. I'm 
not judging anything here, but please be more precise in your accusations.

Thank you,
Gereon

Am 29.06.2021 um 20:34 schrieb Amir Sarabadani:

If anyone is interested to know about this incident. Send me a private message 
and I can explain better.



Best



On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:17 PM 4nn1l2 
<4nn1l2.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Wikimedians,



Persian Wikipedia has reached a new level in their arbitrary and nonesense 
adminship. They have blocked me for placing a Palestinian flag on my userpage 
(of course they have already removed it from my userpage and you need to see a 
previous revision of my userpage).



https://fa.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A8%D8%B1:4nn1l2&oldid=32191672



Another user has nominated the file for deletion on Commons!



I am admin on Commons myself and I'm fed up with how fawiki is managed. They 
block users for the most friviolous reasons.



What does this mean?



Yours faithfully,

User:4nn1l2





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_/  FN * फ्रेड्रिक नोरोन्या * فريدريك نورونيا‎ +91-

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Welcoming the new Wikimedia Foundation CEO

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Welcome: https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryana_Iskander
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Maryana_Iskander.jpg/1200px-Maryana_Iskander.jpg]
Maryana Iskander - Wikipedia, entziklopedia 
askea.
eu.wikipedia.org


From: Tito Dutta 
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 5:40 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Cc: Maryana Iskander 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Welcoming the new Wikimedia Foundation CEO

Hello,
Good to know about the update Nataliia. Thanks to the Transition team for 
working on this. Good wishes (and welcome) to Maryana Iskander in the new role. 
Hope to work with you on Movement Strategy and other Wikimedia projects/areas 
from January onwards.

ইতি,/Thanks(a
টিটো দত্ত/User:Titodutta
(মাতৃভাষা থাক জীবন জুড়ে)


মঙ্গল, ১৪ সেপ্টেম্বর, ২০২১ তারিখে ৯:০২ PM টায় এ Nataliia Tymkiv 
mailto:ntym...@wikimedia.org>> লিখেছেন:
Dear all,

I am pleased to announce that the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees has 
appointed Maryana Iskander as the new CEO of the Wikimedia Foundation [1] [2].

Since 2013, Maryana has served as the CEO of Harambee Youth Employment 
Accelerator [3], a South African non-profit social enterprise focused on 
building African solutions for the global challenge of youth unemployment. 
Prior to this, she spent six years as Chief Operating Officer of Planned 
Parenthood Federation of America [4], a volunteer-led social movement focused 
on access to women’s healthcare. Maryana has also worked in academia as the 
Advisor to the President of Rice University [5], an international research 
university based in the United States.

Her professional career has been motivated by breaking down systemic barriers, 
creating opportunities for collaborative solution-building, and community 
empowerment. She has a proven track record for leading complex organisations 
shaped by shared decision-making.

In looking for the next CEO, we on the Board convened a Transition Committee 
[6], primarily to guide us in finding the right person for this critical role 
and secondly to oversee the executive Transition Team. The Transition Committee 
conducted a far-reaching and competitive global search, receiving around 400 
recommendations and speaking to about 50 potential candidates. Throughout this 
selection process, Maryana impressed us as someone who is deeply inspired by 
the Wikimedia vision and who embodies the values of equity and community that 
inform all Wikimedia work. She has extensive leadership experience working with 
volunteer-led initiatives and building partnerships across public, private and 
social sectors. Maryana also brings expertise in technology-led innovation to 
accelerate meaningful social change. She does this with a global perspective: 
Maryana was born in the Middle East, educated in the United States and the 
United Kingdom, and has spent the last decade living and working on the African 
continent.

Maryana joins the Wikimedia Foundation at a crucial time. The movement is 
larger than ever, and it has never been more relevant or more trusted. This is 
an inflection point, as decisions need to be made to execute a shared vision 
for where the Movement wants to be in 2030. We believe that Maryana is the 
right person to help lead the Foundation at this moment.

As Maryana begins, her priorities will include supporting movement efforts to 
implement the Wikimedia 2030 recommendations, such as the development of a 
Movement Charter and the finalization of a Universal Code of Conduct. She will 
continue the Foundation’s focus on knowledge equity and exploring ways to 
address the gaps in content and the diversity of contributors to Wikimedia 
projects. She will be supported by the Board in this journey.

Maryana will officially start at the Wikimedia Foundation on January 5, 2022, 
as she transitions from her current job. Until then, the Foundation will 
continue to be led by the Transition Team, with guidance from the Board. In my 
conversations with her, I have seen that Maryana is a fan of direct 
communication and excited to learn from the movement. In the coming weeks, she 
will share ways to connect. Please join me in welcoming Maryana (CCed) to the 
Foundation!

PS. For translations of this message, or to help translate it into more 
languages, please visit Meta-Wiki [7]

[1] 
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2021/09/14/wikimedia-foundation-appoints-maryana-iskander-as-chief-executive-officer/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryana_Iskander

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harambee_Youth_Employment_Accelerator

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_Parenthood

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_University

[6] 
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Creating_a_CEO_Transition_Committee_and_Transition_Team,_2021

[7] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/14_September_2021_

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I would add to the idea that this is an international mailing list where most 
of the users are not from the US the idea that there are other Wikipedias 
around that are not in English, so the coverage of details of the US elections 
at the English Wikipedia should be discussed... at the English Wikipedia.

Thanks for your understanding.

Galder

From: Risker 
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:14 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections

There are already wikiprojects on English Wikipedia that work on 
elections.[1][2]  I suggest you might want to continue this conversation there, 
with people who have a strong interest in US elections, and a good grasp on 
what is and is not likely to make a successful article. As noted before, this 
is an international mailing list, and there are better places to talk about 
American politics.

Oh...incidentally. That photo had no impact at all. The election was yesterday, 
and the results were pretty much as predicted at least a week ago; there were 
no surprises.

Risker/Anne





[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory/History_and_society#Politics_and_government
[2] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_presidential_elections

On Tue, 21 Sept 2021 at 01:45, Adam Sobieski 
mailto:adamsobie...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Thank you.



In the recent Canadian federal election [1], there was a last-minute happening 
[2] in the news and on social media [3] which seems difficult to precisely 
attribute to a responsible party. It appears that one or more photographs were 
leaked to a news organization which probably does not want to reveal their 
source. I am thinking about how best to include such complex events and 
happenings in encyclopedia articles about election-related strategies, tactics, 
events, and happenings.



On the topic of US election-related encyclopedia articles, I think that it will 
be easier and that there will be more interested Wikimedians as the next 
election season approaches (2022) or, perhaps, as the next Presidential 
election season approaches (2024). Then, instead of exploring news archives, 
interested Wikimedians could add relevant events and happenings to encyclopedia 
articles as they occur.



My current plan for improving Wikipedia’s overall election coverage includes 
participating, alongside interested others, in US 2024 Presidential 
election-related encyclopedia articles so that the quality of these prominent 
encyclopedia articles might inspire the broader community with regard to 
covering subsequent elections. If anyone has a better plan, please let me know.



If there is interest, perhaps we could organize a community project, a 
Wikiproject [4] or a Task Force [5], to think about and to discuss these topics 
– and, perhaps, to collaborate to build templates or prototypes of enhanced 
election coverage – en route to 2024.



In the interim, I can see whether I can find enough content to create and 
structure articles about these topics pertaining to recent US Presidential 
elections (2016 and 2020).





Best regards,

Adam



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise

[3] 
https://torontosun.com/news/election-2021/lilley-another-blackface-photo-embarrassing-to-trudeau-but-not-his-voters



[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject

[5] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Guide/Task_forces



From: Eduardo Testart
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 12:31 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections



Hi Adam,



If this is a subject you care about, you are probably the right person to start 
writing those articles you would like to see.



If you wait to see "how Wikimedians choose to create and structure them", you 
might very well never see the articles come to life.



It's never too late to start editing 😉





Cheers,



El dom., 19 de sep. de 2021 09:55, Adam Sobieski 
mailto:adamsobie...@hotmail.com>> escribió:

Thank you. It is interesting to consider how a more granular coverage of 
elections, coverage which includes notable mass media events, e.g., news 
stories and social media events, caused by and/or strategically reacted to by 
political campaigns, parties, and organizations, coverage which includes 
election tactics and strategies, can enhance Wikipedia and provide its readers 
with fuller pictures of elections.



I am starting to think about possibilities with respect to these new articles. 
I am looking forward to seeing how Wikimedians choose to create and structure 
them. A hope is that future elections will improve as a result.





Best regards,

Adam



From: Risker
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

By the way, and not being completely off-topic. Thanks to the "Content 
translation" tool, the integration of Elia there (wich has neural translation 
between 6 languages, including Basque) and automatic templates developed by the 
Catalan wikimedians... I translated this article about the Canadian federal 
election in, exactly, 8 minutes.

https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021eko_Kanadako_hauteskunde_federalak

The coverage in wikidata is still poor, but everything will appear soon there, 
automagically.

I encourage smaller Wikipedias to have automatic templates, it makes live 
easier.

From: Jane Darnell 
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 3:53 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections

I do feel US elections and their coverage is an international issue, especially 
in light of recent events that threaten democracy and could indirectly affect 
things like copyright on the internet. I do share concerns about “social media 
events” and it would be helpful to spell out how these could be covered in an 
encyclopedia when social media is not considered a reliable source for an 
article. Add to that a decline in subscriptions to local newspapers (I believe 
this is not only a US issue but an international problem) as well as 
geoblocking content of national newspapers and you have major issues with 
updates to Wikipedia election articles anywhere. I have no idea how to tackle 
these issues but have complete confidence in the various election-related 
WikiProjects so if there’s such a project on meta maybe they have already 
joined forces on this.
Jane

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:


Hoi,
What is painfully obvious is the bias that exists. For countries in Africa we 
do not even know all the government ministers past and present for the last 70 
years let alone that we know about past elections. At that, it is fine with me 
that subjects like this are raised.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On Tue, 21 Sept 2021 at 09:19, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I would add to the idea that this is an international mailing list where most 
of the users are not from the US the idea that there are other Wikipedias 
around that are not in English, so the coverage of details of the US elections 
at the English Wikipedia should be discussed... at the English Wikipedia.

Thanks for your understanding.

Galder

From: Risker mailto:risker...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2021 8:14 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Encyclopedic Coverage of American Elections

There are already wikiprojects on English Wikipedia that work on 
elections.[1][2]  I suggest you might want to continue this conversation there, 
with people who have a strong interest in US elections, and a good grasp on 
what is and is not likely to make a successful article. As noted before, this 
is an international mailing list, and there are better places to talk about 
American politics.

Oh...incidentally. That photo had no impact at all. The election was yesterday, 
and the results were pretty much as predicted at least a week ago; there were 
no surprises.

Risker/Anne





[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory/History_and_society#Politics_and_government
[2] 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_presidential_elections

On Tue, 21 Sept 2021 at 01:45, Adam Sobieski 
mailto:adamsobie...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Thank you.



In the recent Canadian federal election [1], there was a last-minute happening 
[2] in the news and on social media [3] which seems difficult to precisely 
attribute to a responsible party. It appears that one or more photographs were 
leaked to a news organization which probably does not want to reveal their 
source. I am thinking about how best to include such complex events and 
happenings in encyclopedia articles about election-related strategies, tactics, 
events, and happenings.



On the topic of US election-related encyclopedia articles, I think that it will 
be easier and that there will be more interested Wikimedians as the next 
election season approaches (2022) or, perhaps, as the next Presidential 
election season approaches (2024). Then, instead of exploring news archives, 
interested Wikimedians could add relevant events and happenings to encyclopedia 
articles as they occur.



My current plan for improving Wikipedia’s overall election coverage includes 
participating, alongside interested others, in US 2024 Presidential 
election-related encyclopedia articles so that the quality of these prominent 
encyclopedia articles might inspire the broader community with regard to 
covering subsequent elections. If anyone has a better plan, please let me know.



If there is int

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Endowment reaches initial $100 million goal and welcomes new board members

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Lisa for the information.
Now that we have $100 millions, let's see if we can hire someone to solve our 
technology, design and community wishes enormous lag. It may be a good 
inversion.

Thanks

Galder

From: Lisa Gruwell 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 4:57 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Endowment reaches initial $100 million goal 
and welcomes new board members


Dear all,


Today I am very happy to announce the Wikimedia Endowment [1] has reached its 
initial $100 million goal. The Endowment was started in 2016 as a permanent 
fund to support the Wikimedia projects in perpetuity [2].


My deep gratitude goes out to our generous donors, the Endowment board, 
Foundation staff, and volunteers who made this possible. I am grateful to the 
future-focused community members who began considering the idea of an endowment 
years ago, to those who participated in community conversations on Meta [3] to 
help us think through initial decisions regarding its launch, and to all 
contributors whose work creating Wikimedia content has brought free knowledge 
to the world.


As part of this milestone, the Wikimedia Endowment Board has also welcomed 
three new members: Phoebe Ayers, Patricio Lorente, and Doron Weber, bringing in 
important expertise of the Wikimedia movement and priorities as well as in 
nonprofit management.


You can read more about this milestone, what it means for the movement, and 
what comes next for the Endowment on Diff [4] and the Endowment Meta page [5]. 
We invite you to share any questions or feedback on the Endowment talk page [6].


Thank you to everyone who has made this incredible achievement possible.


Best regards,

Lisa


[1] https://wikimediaendowment.org/

[2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/mission/ 


[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Endowment_Essay

[4]https://diff.wikimedia.org/2021/09/22/the-wikimedia-endowment-reaches-100-million-milestone-and-welcomes-three-new-members-to-its-board-more-on-what-these-developments-mean-for-the-projects-and-movement/
 


[5] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Endowment 


[6] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Endowment

--


[https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7MN96V6or1Y0lu_IHLjdwlbWcRXHAjJfO14_U7F5LdzV79DS_Jh21K8EjgdZKiRwYcN3Ts2K3M3S6D4LGae96E8kwFNo41dsp38jy8jmSHCvqKAA8JJ-mKNmVfQV9aRm4KjoMPPk]

Lisa Seitz Gruwell

Chief Advancement Officer

Wikimedia Foundation

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Endowment reaches initial $100 million goal and welcomes new board members

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Is not only about "fulfilling wishes". Is about solving the enormous lag of 
tech problems we have. We may be the only top-10 site in the world with links 
to features in all the pages that are not working (as the book creator). We may 
have 100 million USD to mantain our legacy forever. It will be a nice museum of 
how Internet looked in the 1990s. We may have lots of money, but we lack any 
strategy to invest this money in making our platform better.

thanks

Galder

From: phoebe ayers 
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 1:16 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Endowment reaches initial $100 million 
goal and welcomes new board members

Thanks Christophe, SJ and all! Lisa, agreed - it's taken a lot of work over the 
years from many people to get here. A big thanks to all of the endowment staff 
past and present and especially to you Lisa, who has been there as an advocate 
from the very beginning "what if we made an endowment?!" days. Also thanks to 
my fellow current and former trustees on the WMF & Endowment boards who have 
supported this effort. I'm honored and excited to be a part of the next chapter 
of the endowment, and I hope to hear community members' thoughts on the best 
way an endowment could support the very long term future of the Wikimedia 
projects and free knowledge too.

Galder -- though the endowment may only ever indirectly support this, yes to a 
wishlist system that fulfills more wishes. I want to see this too.
Cunctator -- this seems like a different topic for a different thread?
Vito -- Good meme usage. I can't find the perfect meme to answer so I'll just 
say that (as I expect you know) the endowment is meant to support the projects 
in perpetuity, which means it isn't there to replace daily operation funding or 
annual fundraising. The 100M is meant to generate investment income (which best 
case scenario will still only be a fraction of the current WMF budget.) 
Changing fundraising strategies really means changing the size and scope of the 
WMF annual plan, including affiliate grants; the need for fundraising follows 
from the budget. While that's a good conversation to have, I don't think the 
existence of the endowment will direct it (or our larger movement strategy 
conversations).

cheers,
Phoebe


On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 1:21 PM Lisa Gruwell 
mailto:lgruw...@wikimedia.org>> wrote:
Thank you, Christophe and SJ.  You both were great supporters of this effort 
when you were on the WMF board and it wouldn't have gotten off the ground 
without you.  It takes a lot of vision and trust to do something long-term like 
an endowment.  Thanks for giving that to us!

Best,
Lisa

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 1:52 AM Christophe Henner 
mailto:christophe.hen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Congratulations Lisa and team, I know how much energy you pour into it! That is 
an amazing step. And great to see the endowment becoming its own organization.

And "welcome" to the "new" endowment board members! :)

Few people might know Doron, but he is not a stranger. He has been supporting 
the movement for a very very long time and knows us very well. I remember back 
in 2016, he understood very very fast why it was critical to invest in Wikidata 
and that lead to the Structured Data grant: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Sloan_Grant.

Phoebe, Doron and Patricio are great additions to the endowment board!

All good news, thank you again Lisa!


--
Christophe


On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 16:58, Lisa Gruwell 
mailto:lgruw...@wikimedia.org>> wrote:

Dear all,


Today I am very happy to announce the Wikimedia Endowment [1] has reached its 
initial $100 million goal. The Endowment was started in 2016 as a permanent 
fund to support the Wikimedia projects in perpetuity [2].


My deep gratitude goes out to our generous donors, the Endowment board, 
Foundation staff, and volunteers who made this possible. I am grateful to the 
future-focused community members who began considering the idea of an endowment 
years ago, to those who participated in community conversations on Meta [3] to 
help us think through initial decisions regarding its launch, and to all 
contributors whose work creating Wikimedia content has brought free knowledge 
to the world.


As part of this milestone, the Wikimedia Endowment Board has also welcomed 
three new members: Phoebe Ayers, Patricio Lorente, and Doron Weber, bringing in 
important expertise of the Wikimedia movement and priorities as well as in 
nonprofit management.


You can read more about this milestone, what it means for the movement, and 
what comes next for the Endowment on Diff [4] and the Endowment Meta page [5]. 
We invite you to share any questions or feedback on the Endowment talk page [6].


Thank you to everyone who has made this incredible achievement possible.


Best regards,

Lisa


[1] https://wikimediaendowment.org/

[2] https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/mission/ 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Nigeria Independence Day global Edit-a-thon

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Great initiative! I have added population data to every state at Wikidata, and 
now automatically generated demographic maps are possible:

https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria#Biztanleak

Happy independence day!

From: Olushola Olaniyan 
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 9:59 AM
To: Carlos M. Colina 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Nigeria Independence Day global Edit-a-thon

Reminder!!!


Hello friends

Today is the Nigeria  independence day anniversary, join us across the globe to 
celebrate the birth of our Nation by editing any Nigeria related articles in 
your language on @Wikipedia and please add #NG to your summary.

Let's do it together .

We love ❤️ you all!!!

Olushola Olaniyan
President  Wikimedia User Group Nigeria
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[Wikimedia-l] #30daysmapchallenge

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear wikimedians,
For the third year in a row, cartographer and open data lover Topi Tjukanov has 
organized the #30daysmapchallenge. You have all the information here: 
https://github.com/tjukanovt/30DayMapChallenge.

I send this, because I know there are lots of cartography enthusiasts in our 
movement who would be glad to take part in this challenge and contribute with 
those maps to articles in Wikipedia, to Commons or, upload and reuse 
information from Wikidata. I personally enjoyed last year challenge and 
contributed to some articles and learnt about tools to import data from 
Wikidata into QGIS.

Sincerely

Galder
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[Wikimedia-l] 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear all,
Today I learned that, despite having $100 million in the Endowment fund, we 
can't have a design team big enough to make our websites not look like they're 
stuck in 2001. I don't know if anyone is behind the wheel, but the car is 
expensive.

Sincerely,
Galder

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Yes. That's why.

From: Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:42 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Hi Galder,

Have you ever seen Vector skin version 2?

See: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements,

You can adopt new versions from your preferences. Some wikis like French 
Wikipedia, Bangala Wikipedia, etc., already aptoted this new version for their 
default interface.

Regards,

Jay Prakash,
Volunteer Developer, Wikimedia Community

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:04 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Dear all,
Today I learned that, despite having $100 million in the Endowment fund, we 
can't have a design team big enough to make our websites not look like they're 
stuck in 2001. I don't know if anyone is behind the wheel, but the car is 
expensive.

Sincerely,
Galder

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Yes, that's it. Vector was obsolete when it was deployed. New Vector would be 
obsolete even when Vector was created. It is 2021 and we still can't edit by 
mobile phone. It is 2021 and most of the tools outside the biggest Wikipedias 
are broken. It is 2021 and the Vector redesign doesn't take into account that 
coordinates are a thing. But yes, we do have 100.000.000$ so we can see how 
Internet was back in the 1990s also in the future.

From: Tito Dutta 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:56 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Indeed, the lack or modernisation of the web interface, and lack of an improved 
Android/iPhone (or simply "smartphone") editing app[1] are possibly some of the 
major areas to focus.

If the "next billion internet users", a term we often used to use are not 
getting involved as much as we expected, possibly "interface" is one reason 
behind it.

[1] I am aware of the currently available apps.

শুক্র, 15 অক্টো., 2021 12:03 AM তারিখে Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> লিখেছেন:
Dear all,
Today I learned that, despite having $100 million in the Endowment fund, we 
can't have a design team big enough to make our websites not look like they're 
stuck in 2001. I don't know if anyone is behind the wheel, but the car is 
expensive.

Sincerely,
Galder

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Jay for your insights. I just had a meeting with some of the team 
members. If they can't develop a modern and useful design in a reasonable time 
lapse, then the team is underfunded. Having a big team is not always better, 
having a team big enough to work on something it should be solved a decade ago 
should. If design is subjective, then we don't need any design. Design is not 
subjective, as aesthetics aren't. There are tons of things published about good 
designs and bad designs. There are tons of things we could do but we aren't 
doing because we don't hire people to do it. But we have 100 million dollars, 
that would be great saved in a vault, instead of making our project better, so 
we can raise 300 million dollars because more people is coming to share more 
knowledge in more ways for more people.

From: Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 9:18 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Hi,

I think design is a subjective term. It depends on person-to-person 
preferences. So there will always be a big room for improvement.

WMF's Readers web team is already working to improve the design. They did 
research and implemented new designs. We should always cooperate with them by 
giving feedback so that more improvement can take place.

Currently, this team has 14 team members and consists of 3 UX 
Designer/Engineers. So saying that they are not big enough is not good. Please 
keep in mind that a big team is not always a good idea. [1][2]

[1] 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobmorgan/2015/04/15/why-smaller-teams-are-better-than-larger-ones/?sh=5707944a1e68
[2] https://blog.prototypr.io/small-team-vs-large-staff-1f921b69d0cf

Jay Prakash

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:27 AM Tito Dutta 
mailto:trulyt...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Indeed, the lack or modernisation of the web interface, and lack of an improved 
Android/iPhone (or simply "smartphone") editing app[1] are possibly some of the 
major areas to focus.

If the "next billion internet users", a term we often used to use are not 
getting involved as much as we expected, possibly "interface" is one reason 
behind it.

[1] I am aware of the currently available apps.

শুক্র, 15 অক্টো., 2021 12:03 AM তারিখে Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> লিখেছেন:
Dear all,
Today I learned that, despite having $100 million in the Endowment fund, we 
can't have a design team big enough to make our websites not look like they're 
stuck in 2001. I don't know if anyone is behind the wheel, but the car is 
expensive.

Sincerely,
Galder

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Toolhub 1.0 is launched! Discover software tools used at Wikimedia

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks, Brigit, for this hub, it is great to have it! I have tried and can't 
find any way to look for tools that are not nominated as "Coolest Tool Award" 
besides looking for name. Is there a way for searching by categories?

Thanks
Galder

From: Birgit Müller 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:58 PM
To: wikitech-l ; 
wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org ; Wikimedia 
Cloud Services general discussion and support ; 
wikid...@lists.wikimedia.org ; 
wikitech-ambassad...@lists.wikimedia.org 

Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Toolhub 1.0 is launched! Discover software tools used at 
Wikimedia


Hi All,

We are happy to announce the launch of Toolhub 
– a community-authored catalogue that aims to make software 
tools used in 
the Wikimedia movement discoverable to everyone.


Community developed tools – including web applications, bots, gadgets, user 
scripts, lua modules, and more – play a significant role in the Wikimedia 
projects. These software applications address a wide range of use cases 
including finding bad faith edits and other content curation, bulk editing, 
collecting statistical information, creating special citations, and much more. 
About ⅓ of all edits are made by bots and tools. In addition, semi-automated 
edits are helped by user scripts, gadgets, and other editing assistance tools 
that run from the user's local computer or directly inside the wikis. There are 
thousands of tools available, but how can you find them?


With Toolhub, you can document and find 
tools, promote their use in your wiki 
community, and help improve them by contributing data. You can create and share 
lists of tools relevant to your work - for example, for GLAM tools, or for wiki 
projects such as Women in Red.


This first release provides a core set of 
functionalities, and contains 
an initial data set of about 1500 tools. Most of the initial tools in the 
catalog are imported from the same data files developers have created for Hay's 
Directory which has been a major 
inspiration for Toolhub.


Toolhub serves developers and users of tools alike. It is part of our efforts 
to improve the infrastructure and services for technical contributors, captured 
under one of Technology’s top level objectives in the FY 2020-2021 and 
2021-2022 annual plans: Tech Community 
Building.
 We hope to continue conversations with developers and users of tools, plan to 
improve Toolhub, and to further expand the functionality.


A collaborative system and open developer platform

Toolhub is built as an API driven platform that makes it possible to extend and 
remix the catalogue, and to make collecting and reusing information about tools 
as open and collaborative as we can. Everything that can be done interactively 
with the Toolhub website can also be done remotely through the API. We would 
love to hear from technical contributors interested in using the Toolhub 
API to build new tools 
that make new ways to add or consume information from Toolhub's catalog.


Our decision record 
and weekly progress 
reports on Meta 
provide more insights in technical implementation details and decisions made 
throughout the development process. The Toolhub/About 
page provides information on 
project origin, research, use cases, data model, and roadmap. This recording 
from a lightning talk at ‘21 
Wikimania gives an overview of the 
main aspects in 10 minutes.


Thank you <3

This project wouldn’t have been possible without the support, knowledge, ideas 
and prior work of many. One of the nicest side-effects of a release is that 
it’s a great opportunity to thank folks for their time and contributions :-)


  *   Husky, whose Hay's 
Directory provided the foundation for the 
data model used by Toolhub and inspired some of its features.

  *   Harej, for his invaluable 
contributions in the early stages of the Toolhub project.

  *   Our 'advisory board' - 
Giuseppe (SRE), 
Risker (editor, admin), 
Reedy (Security), 
Keegan (Community 
Relations), and Eran 
(volunteer develo

[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

re.

But no, instead we get excuse 8: there are actually enough staff, but those 
poor staff can't do what they should do, poor staff, because the community 
doesn't want change (excuse 2) and the environment is toxic (excuse 6). Or, as 
a variant: a bigger team may not be better (despite the team says that they 
can't do it because their team is small). So, once the circle is closed, you go 
back to opening issues in Phabricator to try to improve these problems. Because 
it only takes one manager, someone who knows how to manage a team, to realize 
that there is a problem here. And what do you find in Phabricator if you reopen 
issues? Surprise, you get back to box 5, in its variants a, b, c or d.

The circle is closed. No one is responsible for anything. No one can solve it. 
In the meantime, we have 100 million dollars, a flawed website, a make-up 
process that leads nowhere, whole communities with basic things broken for 
months and no prospect of improvement for the people who, in good faith, try to 
help along the way. We lose readers. We lose volunteers. We lose time. We lose 
money. We lose everyone.

Thanks

Galder



From: Heather Walls 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 12:01 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

I was going to write something similar to Jonathan, but now I can just support 
what he said.

If there are folks in the communities who desire changes to the sites, building 
a group of supporters and/or becoming invested in what it is really like to 
make those changes *socially* not technically, is likely to be more effective 
than pointing at WMF and saying they are not interested, not capable, or not 
resourced enough.

Thanks, Jmo!



On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:35 PM Jonathan Morgan 
mailto:jonnymorgan@gmail.com>> wrote:
It's not an issue of "WMF can't hire enough designers" or "WMF can't hire good 
designers".

I worked for WMF in a design-adjacent role for the better part of a decade. WMF 
has excellent designers, and in sufficient numbers to build a modern user 
interface on desktop--one that looks modern and also prioritizes the needs of 
Wikipedia's readers (editors can always load up an old skin if they don't like 
the new one).

The mobile site and Wikipedia apps have a much more modern look-and-feel and 
are clearly focused on making Wikipedia "work" for its largest set of users: 
readers. If the desktop site lags on the design side, that may be because when 
WMF has tried to make UI changes to the desktop site in the past, or even just 
proposed them, they've received loud and angry push back from members of a 
second (smaller, but equally important) set of users: editors.

WMF, understandably, tries to avoid angering editors (believe it or not).

At the software company I work for now, if we make a change that annoys our 
users--pretty much all of whom are "power users" with needs every bit as 
complex and idiosyncratic as your average Admin--we hear about it. But no one 
threatens to disable that change across the platform. And it's relatively rare 
for a user to accuse us of being stupid or lazy or malicious--at least, its 
rare on for that to happen on public mailing lists or in our own forums.

That doesn't mean the stakes are any lower: if we make the software worse, we 
probably lose customers. But we have the autonomy to make the changes in the 
first place, see what happens, and then build from there or fix our mistakes or 
even roll things back if we need to.

WMF product teams work in an environment where their competence and good faith 
are frequently, and publicly, called into question. An environment where one 
set of end users (editors) has a great deal of both soft and hard power to 
block changes, even when those changes are intended for--and indeed, primarily 
affect--a different set of end users (readers).

Speaking as someone who worked inside of that environment, I can say that it 
can feel like even targeted, clearly motivated and well-justified changes aimed 
at improving the reader experience aren't worth the cost.

There are plenty of other factors at play, but I'm sure I've already said 
enough to anger plenty of you, so I'll leave it there.

I no longer work for WMF and my opinions are my own.

Cheers,
Jonathan Morgan
User:Jtmorgan
formerly, User:Jmorgan_(WMF)

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:34 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Dear all,
Today I learned that, despite having $100 million in the Endowment fund, we 
can't have a design team big enough to make our websites not look like they're 
stuck in 2001. I don't know if anyone is behind the wheel, but the car is 
expensive.

Sincerely,
Galder

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Dan for using the Excuse 6: At this point in the circle, there is some 
volunteer who wants to fix this and raises the tone of the request. Then we 
find the mother of all excuses, the wild card: you are being rude and do not 
assume good faith. Excuse 6.

From: Dan Garry (Deskana) 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 11:58 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 at 08:47, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Dear all,
I don't know if this already has a name, but I'm going to invent one: The Great 
Circle of Excuse. It works like this: we have all realized that something needs 
to be improved, let's say the design of our website. Then, WMF gets a group of 
workers to think about it, and they come up with some changes that neither 
respond to the needs nor are really a change beyond certain aesthetic resources.

I stopped reading at this point. What you've written here is pretty insulting. 
There's a valid point buried under your rhetoric, but you're exacerbating the 
problem by being so rude and dismissive.

Dan
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

No, I don't have all the answers. Is just that every time someone says: "hey! 
this is broken!" and receives an excuse and then says again "HEY! THIS IS 
BROKEN!" the answer is not: "ok, we'll try to figure out how to solve it" but: 
"don't use caps". I'm a volunteer. I have spent lots of time trying to solve 
issues. Most of this time wasn't about the issue, was about someone trying to 
convince me that the bug was a feature. And now, when I tell here where "I 
THINK" that the problem is, I get a "you are being rude" excuse. Great. I'm 
being rude. Now, can we fix the problem?

Thanks

Galder

From: Dan Garry (Deskana) 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 12:08 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 at 11:03, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks Dan for using the Excuse 6: At this point in the circle, there is some 
volunteer who wants to fix this and raises the tone of the request. Then we 
find the mother of all excuses, the wild card: you are being rude and do not 
assume good faith. Excuse 6.

I guess you've got all the answers then, eh?

I think we're done here.

Dan
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Vito and Samuel for your words,
As a leader of an Education Program, I talk every day to students, people who 
was born after Wikipedia and have assumed during all their life that Wikipedia 
exists. They are digital natives, but, for the good or for the bad, they are 
used to having everything deployed, working and simple. They are used to Google 
Drive and its collaboration platforms; they are used to just buying some new 
device and having the operative system there. They haven't dealt with 
installing their own OS, making separate drives for data and OS or just having 
folders in their desktop to save things.

I have been with more than 6.000 students in the last 4 years 
(https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/campaigns/hezkuntza_programa/programs 
4.147 accounts created) and they are shocked with the obsolescence of our 
platform. They don't understand why they can't write simultaneously, why they 
can't upload videos, or why there's not autosave. I'm with them every day, so I 
hear what they think about the design, the usability. They make the same 
mistakes once and again, so I'm starting to think that those are not mistakes, 
but software/UX errors.

Our system was obsolete 10 years ago. Whenever we fix something, we are a 
decade late. The new vector will be, too, a decade late. And every change we 
aren't doing is losing new contributors. Old wikimedians will eventually leave 
the project, because they can't contribute, because they have lost their 
enthusiasm or just because they die. If we want to have a whole new generation 
of wikimedians editing, then things must be thought for them, making everything 
easier, appealing and aligned with the way they have to contribute. Desktop 
computers are disappearing. We still can't edit in a good way with our mobile 
phones. We have a whole strategy thought for the 2030, but we aren't making any 
real usability step in that direction.

We have still some time left. And we have the most important thing: a mountain 
of money. Let's invest in the best way we can: attracting a new generation of 
Wikimedians who will push our projects to new heights and will make that little 
investment of money multiply for the future.

Galder

PD: Samuel, yes, of course, I use tropes, stylistic recourses and metaphors. 
I'm trying to tell something! 😉


From: Vi to 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 9:07 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Regular contributors experience is quite different from less frequent 
contributors and (above all) readers. People into user interfaces design surely 
have a proper word for this, but we're used to a variety of small tricks/habits 
which are somehow expensive to change.

For example, since OOUI's developed I've been upset because it seems to need 
some more keystrokes for blocks and deletions. I, for one, am still using 
monobook, and I won't change it unless forced.

Introducing visual editor implied a cost for the communities to fix garbage 
wikicode introduced by VE during its first weeks/months, some years later, 
linterrors became the best game for our bots.

So I can confirm the inertia of regular editors about user interface is, 
usually, humongous, but also the project themselves have an enormous inertia 
since they are collections of terabytes of wikicode created during almost two 
decades.

I feel like this problem has never been addressed in a wide, strategic, way, 
leaving developers being torn apart by conflicting needs.

Vito

Il giorno ven 15 ott 2021 alle ore 19:11 Eduardo Testart 
mailto:etest...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:
Hi all,

A good example around this subject was the Visual Editor tool implementation, 
strongly opposed by the community in the beginning, and developed by the WMF, 
as it was probably necessary to turn Wikipedia into a more modern website.

A lot about the latter can be found and read as a real example of this debate

The cultural behavior of the group is a big factor on any technological 
implementation on the Wikimedia world, and to change culture, you need much 
more than money.

Sorry if this was mentioned before.


Cheers,


El vie., 15 de oct. de 2021 07:13, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> escribió:
No, I don't have all the answers. Is just that every time someone says: "hey! 
this is broken!" and receives an excuse and then says again "HEY! THIS IS 
BROKEN!" the answer is not: "ok, we'll try to figure out how to solve it" but: 
"don't use caps". I'm a volunteer. I have spent lots of time trying to solve 
issues. Most of this time wasn't about the issue, was about someone trying to 
convince me that the bug was a feature. And now, when I tell here where "I 
THINK" that the problem is, I get a "you

[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

True Samuel. We can actually edit [Wikipedia] from our mobile phones. We can't 
use the visual editor. I tried to say it later with the sentence "Desktop 
computers are disappearing. We still can't edit in a good way with our mobile 
phones." but it's true the first time I mentionen this it was not factual.

About the other projects, it doesn't matter where the bottleneck is: we are 
obsolete and we have 100 million dollars. We try to make some improvements 
using a wishlist system that only creates culture of scarcity, instead of 
culture of abundance. There is a reason to create scarcity, but this is a topic 
for another essay.

Have a good weekend

Galder

From: Samuel Klein 
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 3:07 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Luis writes:
> For what it is worth, I think the current mobile app is pretty good and I 
> regularly finding pleasant surprises

Yea, the mobile app is sweet, editing and all.

Responding to two specific earlier comments:

1. Galder - "It is 2021 and we still can't edit by mobile phone."

-->  Safe to say this is not true :)  But you could say that about your later 
comment on the ability to "write simultaneously ... upload videos ... 
autosave", each of which are common in online collaborative spaces, and which 
we do need to make standard for our wikis.  But the bottlenecks aren't 
primarily design, but rather coordinated vision and focus -- or at least 
unblocking and supporting one another as we design and implement prototypes.  
We need new social norms and clear community use cases for simultaneous 
editing (resolving attribution 
and revision history for multiparty edits), video 
uploading (how to 
note the original upload if we only save a transcode), and 
drafts (rallying support behind a 
specific client-side use case to realize).

2. Jonathan -
   "[In my new sw company] we have the autonomy to make the changes in the 
first place, see what happens, and then build from there..."
   "WMF product teams work in an environment where [...] one set of end users 
(editors) has a great deal of both soft and hard power to block changes, even 
when those changes are intended for--and indeed, primarily affect--a different 
set of end users (readers)."

--> These comments highlight a common misframing, about autonomy and curation 
of the reading experience, worth addressing.  (Likely deserves its own thread!)

Much of the friction and tension in our movement stems from different 
understandings of autonomy; and the impedance 
mismatch
 of a step function between the norms (of communication, delegation, and 
planning) of a) broad community wikiocracies and b) narrow staff hierarchies. 
Our community has thousands of designers; the staff has scores, who may feel 
constrained to work on only their particular projects. There is abundant talent.

Most active editors and curators are not "end users" of the site, any more than 
developers are -- they are involved before the end, up and down the design and 
implementation stack, building bridges, interfaces, translations.  They are 
project stewards, schedulers, templaters, designers, and maintainers.  So when 
interface designers deploying a new language-selector design are talking with 
layout designers maintaining article flair like 
geo-coordinates
 and article status 
indicators, they 
should feel they are on the same team: improving the site skin together.

This is a solved problem in some corners, but the solutions are not evenly 
distributed.  Within Wikimedia, and within the WMF, there are groups and 
projects of all sizes that have developed without this sort of contention.  But 
we spend most of our time and energy talking about the ones that fail to do so. 
 [The article always ends on the wrong 
version; confusion is always 
due to the other person :-]   Let's learn from the successes, and not fall into 
stereotyping any parts of our nexus.

Wishing all a beautiful week's end,
SJ


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[Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Christophe,
And whose responsibility is to answer to "And if you read the whole thread it 
is not really about money but more about product vision/strategy/roadmap :)"? 
Who should have this strategy, vision and roadmap?

That's the x in this equation.

Galder

From: Christophe Henner 
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 9:33 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Hi,

I will the whole first part of the discussion :)

As for the product discussion. We should very mindful of what we consider our 
ProductS.

We tend to talk a lot about the wikis. They are products that can be improved, 
and have been and still should evolve yes. And I agree it would be great if 
they improved more, be updated for both readers and editors. But the context, 
with so many communities to satisfy makes it very hard.

Be damned if you do, be damned if you don't sort of things.

But, they are not obsolete.

What however is, to me, obsolete is our shared very occidental web vision of 
our products.

What can makes us obsolete, is our inability to adapt our products or create 
new products adapted to new mean of content consumption.

>From a content consumption perspective, video and audio have a lot of 
>tractions.

Short and fast burst of information is taking more and more place on how we 
consume content.

The disintermediation of content is more than here and even if we have 
Wikidata, we are not, yet!, exploiting it's full potential to spread content.

VR and AR are 5 to 10 years away as mass market products. But it will requires 
years to do something good for us around it.

Yes editing can be improved, but to me it is not where we will see obsolescence 
first. Content consumption is clearly to me the topic.

I know it can be easy to say "hey look at simultaneous editing on gdoc or 365". 
Yes that's a nice thing, but would it be a game changer for us? But having all 
around the world PoP to decrease loading time also is a great product 
improvement. Etc.

All that to say, yes there is a lot of work from a product perspective, but it 
can be easy to have our own biases give us a twisted view of what needs to be 
improved.

And if you read the whole thread it is not really about money but more about 
product vision/strategy/roadmap :)

Which we might be missing or isn't known enough.

Le sam. 16 oct. 2021 à 8:41 AM, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> a écrit :
True Samuel. We can actually edit [Wikipedia] from our mobile phones. We can't 
use the visual editor. I tried to say it later with the sentence "Desktop 
computers are disappearing. We still can't edit in a good way with our mobile 
phones." but it's true the first time I mentionen this it was not factual.

About the other projects, it doesn't matter where the bottleneck is: we are 
obsolete and we have 100 million dollars. We try to make some improvements 
using a wishlist system that only creates culture of scarcity, instead of 
culture of abundance. There is a reason to create scarcity, but this is a topic 
for another essay.

Have a good weekend

Galder

From: Samuel Klein mailto:meta...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 3:07 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: 100$ million dollars and still obsolete

Luis writes:
> For what it is worth, I think the current mobile app is pretty good and I 
> regularly finding pleasant surprises

Yea, the mobile app is sweet, editing and all.

Responding to two specific earlier comments:

1. Galder - "It is 2021 and we still can't edit by mobile phone."

-->  Safe to say this is not true :)  But you could say that about your later 
comment on the ability to "write simultaneously ... upload videos ... 
autosave", each of which are common in online collaborative spaces, and which 
we do need to make standard for our wikis.  But the bottlenecks aren't 
primarily design, but rather coordinated vision and focus -- or at least 
unblocking and supporting one another as we design and implement prototypes.  
We need new social norms and clear community use cases for simultaneous 
editing<https://bluespice.com/mediawiki-visualeditor/> (resolving attribution 
and revision history for multiparty edits), video 
uploading<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TimedMediaHandler> (how to 
note the original upload if we only save a transcode), and 
drafts<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T39992> (rallying support behind a 
specific client-side use case to realize).

2. Jonathan -
   "[In my new sw company] we have the autonomy to make the changes in the 
first place, see what happens, and then build from there..."
   "WMF product teams work in an environment 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Movement Charter Drafting Committee elections are now open!

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Let me suggest an improvement for the next time: the Election Compass gives the 
username and the voting system is orded by real name. It would be great to have 
both/be consistent.

But... 70 candidates! It seems hard to make something perfect.

From: Jan Ainali 
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2021 1:29 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Movement Charter Drafting Committee elections are 
now open!

Thanks for your reply Kaarel,

I just wanted to note that UI of SecurePoll caused problem in the board 
election too, and that the same excuse was used then "in a short time once". 
Obviously this is a piece of infrastructure that we need in the movement and 
that any team doing one election should not need to fix the software for it.

Hence, a specific project, unrelated to any election, should be tasked to solve 
this by the Wikimedia Foundation. And it should start soon to avoid us finding 
ourselves in the same problem when the next election is being called.

Thanks,
Jan Ainali


Den mån 18 okt. 2021 kl 13:02 skrev Kaarel Vaidla 
mailto:kvai...@wikimedia.org>>:
Thank you everyone for taking the time to vote on the elections, for engaging 
with the tools that have been created to facilitate the voting, and for taking 
the time to provide the feedback. Running these elections with 70 candidates is 
a pilot and it is a great opportunity to learn together and with your support 
and input. We are gathering the lessons learned, so there can be improvements 
for the next time.

I am responding to some of the points made in the thread:

  *   The user interface and, as a result, the user experience for voting on 
the SecurePoll for 70 candidates with a Single Transferable Voting method is 
indeed sub-optimal. Unfortunately, we could not figure out how to make it more 
user friendly in a short time once it became clear that there would be 70 
candidates. It would need essential changes on how the voting would happen. 
There are some suggestions for improvements in this thread (no dropbox, but 
clickable or drag & drop candidate chips; choosing a different voting method or 
creating 7-member districts). It would be great to receive further perspectives 
on this!

  *   Thank you, Lodewijk, for sharing practical guidance on how to make the 
most of the current user interface. Typing the first letter of the candidate 
name to find the right one in the dropdown box with 70 names is probably the 
best way to do it. A huge thank you to everyone who is taking the time to cast 
their vote!

  *   Ensuring the supporting materials to help people to make informed 
decisions has been a complex matter. The candidate 
statements
 add up to 55 pages of text, which is difficult to navigate. It seemed like a 
compass tool could be of help here, but it comes with its own complications:
 *   There was a 10-day window to submit the statements and a 5-day 
upvoting period. We did our best to communicate it widely on mailing lists 
(e.g. 
here
 and 
here)
 as well as social media groups, yet as there is so.much going on, not everyone 
noticed it in the timely manner.
 *   We are no longer collecting or upvoting statements. We hope that 19 
that were selected are at least to some extent helpful in informing the voting. 
We are happy to receive the feedback regarding the statement collection and 
upvoting, so it would be possible to improve the process in the future.
 *   Election compass has its own user interface and experience challenges. 
We have opted for all the candidates being selected as default for comparison, 
as it provides a good comparison across the pool - this helps to have a good 
overview of the positions of all the candidates. However, this makes navigating 
their rationale statements more difficult, as it involves a lot of scrolling. 
Also, if one is interested in comparing 2 candidates, there is a lot of 
deselecting that needs to happen. It seemed that selecting candidates manually 
would bring more personal bias into use of the tool, so we have chosen the 
select all approach as default. Overall, it is the number of candidates that is 
creating the bulk of the navigation and comparison issues and we are open to 
feedback on how to improve this in the future.
 *   The length of the statements made by the candidates in the compass 
tool was capped to prevent us from creating another wall of text. While it 
helps to better understand the position of the candidate, it would create a 
further barrier for voter engagement, if the expression is not clear and 
concise. I believe that the word limits will be an essential part of the futur

[Wikimedia-l] An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear wikimedians,
Some years ago, I visited Uzbekistan. I was shocked and amused to find that the 
largest paper note was 2.000 soʻm at that time, with a plan to start with the 
5.000 paper note soon. The most used one still was the 1.000 soʻm note, that 
was about 35 US cents in the bank and about 20 US cents in the street markets. 
So, the first time we changed two 100 USD$ paper notes into soʻm we got around 
800 paper notes in bunches of 100. It was quite interesting to note that people 
in the street went with black plastic bags full of money in order to buy at the 
market or get a taxi ride. Some days later, I talked to a local taxi driver and 
he told me that when he bought his car, he needed a small truck to carry all 
the paper notes to the car selling store. Of course, I took that as a joke. 
Then another man said that many houses have a room only for storing money, so 
you can buy a larger house in the future. I don't know if this was a practical 
joke, but that's how it was.

Yesterday we launched Wikimedia Enterprise. This e-mail is not to show my 
disagreement with the idea itself, but with the outcome. It seems that the 
purpose of Wikimedia Entrerprise is to have a large money revenue offering 
volunteer's time and content to the rich who are willing to pay for a better 
API. Believe it or not, I like to tax the rich.

We have millions of dollars in our money room, and, if everything goes as 
planned with Wikimedia Enterprise, we will soon need to buy a new house to have 
a larger room to store all those cheques, notes and assets. The room will soon 
look huge and plenty of money. Still, there's no plan to paint the house, 
arrange the sofa, solve the water leakage we have in the toilet, mow the lawn 
or buy a new set of pans so we can cook healthy food there. Soon, the cow will 
start aging and won't have more milk to sell. But yes, the money room will be 
huge. We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still... yes... 
obsolete.

Sincerely,

Galder
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Anders,
"We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would imply 
that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, can't do 
this things (you can help by expanding this list):

  *   Simultaneous edition
  *   Auto-save in sandbox
  *   Publishing from sandbox
  *   Upload MP4 files
  *   Render correctly vectorial files
  *   Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
  *   Have a modern look
  *   Have cross-project templates and modules
  *   Visual edit from mobile
  *   Create visually interesting cartography
  *   Hear the articles
  *   Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
  *   ...
  *   

Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every 
year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. Let's 
take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or the 
2017 one: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results. Some 
projects where done, some not and there are some that are external tools that 
you have to use as a gadget.

Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very obsolete.

Galder



From: Anders Wennersten 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

"We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
yes... obsolete." Galder


What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?

I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
has been launched.

I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)

But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very
glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is
to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if
a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia.
Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in
Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off
these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people
in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.

We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving
for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see

Anders
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Anders: we can't add a physics simulator. 
(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is 
not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, 
because we are... obsolete.


From: Anders Wennersten 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise


We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of 
controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept


we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, 
truly believing in the full integrity of our users


our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party


Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which is 
made easier with no technical smarties)


Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a 
phenomenon obsolete


In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with few or 
none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by parties that 
want to undermine our system by clever hackers


Anders


Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
Thanks Anders,
"We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would imply 
that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, can't do 
this things (you can help by expanding this list):

  *   Simultaneous edition
  *   Auto-save in sandbox
  *   Publishing from sandbox
  *   Upload MP4 files
  *   Render correctly vectorial files
  *   Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
  *   Have a modern look
  *   Have cross-project templates and modules
  *   Visual edit from mobile
  *   Create visually interesting cartography
  *   Hear the articles
  *   Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
  *   ...
  *   

Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every 
year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. Let's 
take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or the 
2017 one: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results. Some 
projects where done, some not and there are some that are external tools that 
you have to use as a gadget.

Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very obsolete.

Galder



From: Anders Wennersten 
<mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

"We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
yes... obsolete." Galder


What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?

I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
has been launched.

I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
similar themself (which would go down badly in the public)

But the war of information is a reality and heating up. We can be very
glad that so far we have not been a target of all angriness of what is
to be seen as the "correct" information. But that could change, what if
a new administration in US want to control what is written in Wikipedia.
Or China want to set up a parallel in English as the have now in
Chinese. If these thing happen we need to have resources to fight off
these type a of challenges, not only for our own sake but for he people
in the world who is used to turn to Wikipedia for basic facts.

We are the opposite to obsolete, we are in the front seat and driving
for correct facts in the emerging information war we now see

Anders
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

"Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. "

I don't assume it, just we can't do it: 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259


If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given wiki, we 
could go forward fast.

From: Strainu 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise



Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> a scris:
> Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.

We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical administrator, 
but it's possible.

Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such initiatives in a 
meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).

Strainu

(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is 
not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, 
because we are... obsolete.
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise
>
>
> We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of 
> controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept
>
> we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, 
> truly believing in the full integrity of our users
>
> our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party
>
> Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which 
> is made easier with no technical smarties)
>
> Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a 
> phenomenon obsolete
>
> In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with few or 
> none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by parties 
> that want to undermine our system by clever hackers
>
> Anders
>
> Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:
>
> Thanks Anders,
> "We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would 
> imply that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, 
> can't do this things (you can help by expanding this list):
>
> Simultaneous edition
> Auto-save in sandbox
> Publishing from sandbox
> Upload MP4 files
> Render correctly vectorial files
> Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects
> Have a modern look
> Have cross-project templates and modules
> Visual edit from mobile
> Create visually interesting cartography
> Hear the articles
> Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)
> ...
> 
>
> Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every 
> year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. 
> Let's take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or 
> the 2017 one: 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Results. Some 
> projects where done, some not and there are some that are external tools that 
> you have to use as a gadget.
>
> Students are relying on YouTube to learn things. We are obsolete. Very 
> obsolete.
> Galder
>
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 5:23 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise
>
> "We will have more and more and more millions, but we will still...
> yes... obsolete." Galder
>
>
> What phenomenon do you see challenge Wikipedias role as a source for
> common knowledge, an encyklopedia for everyone?
>
> I see that for the last 20 years no successful commercial encyclopedia
> has been launched.
>
> I see how the social media have a hard time to be a platform for common
> knowledge and hard pressed to employ armies of moderators. And Google
> very happy to lean and steal from Wikipedia rather the do something
> similar themself (w

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Dynamic content on Wikipedia (was: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise)

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I think that the WMF has a whole departament devoted to product. This is not about someone trying to get some money, is about University professors that have asked directly how they can upload their dynamic content to wikipedia and they didn't have a way. How can a regular Physicist in Uzbekistan upload it without knowing someone who knows someone who could fill a grant proposal? Is like asking a grant proposal to be able to upload a video!2021(e)ko urr. 26(a) 20:13 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Strainu ):Changing subject, this is no joke. Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> a scris:> "Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even particularly hard. "> I don't assume it, just we can't do it: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259As a matter of fact, these 2 tickets say it's totally possible to have dynamic content on Wikipedia, just not by an average user. They even have examples of dynamic content. What I don't see there (I just skimmed the content though) is a list of requirements for what we want to achieve. Are there big classes of similar visualizations that could be done with simple customizations that a semi-technical person (think:excel user) could do? You could start from there and have someone write a project grant proposal for such a project. Strainu >>> If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given wiki, we could go forward fast.> > From: Strainu <strain...@gmail.com>> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise>  >> Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> a scris:>> Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.>> We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical administrator, but it's possible.>> Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such initiatives in a meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).>> Strainu>> (https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, because we are... obsolete.>>>> >> From: Anders Wennersten <m...@anderswennersten.se>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM>> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise>>  >>>> We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept>>>> we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, truly believing in the full integrity of our users>>>> our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party>>>> Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which is made easier with no technical smarties)>>>> Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a phenomenon obsolete>>>> In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "boring" side with few or none smart gadgets then being too smart and open for foul play by parties that want to undermine our system by clever hackers>>>> Anders>>>> Den 2021-10-26 kl. 17:37, skrev Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga:>>>> Thanks Anders,>> "We are the opposite to obsolete" is a good sentence, because this would imply that our platform is the bow of an icebreaker. But we still, in 2021, can't do this things (you can help by expanding this list):>>>> Simultaneous edition>> Auto-save in sandbox>> Publishing from sandbox>> Upload MP4 files>> Render correctly vectorial files>> Embed our own Wikidata query results in our own projects>> Have a modern look>> Have cross-project templates and modules>> Visual edit from mobile>> Create visually interesting cartography>> Hear the articles>> Export multiple articles as a pdf/doc (whatever)>> ...>> >>>> Someone will answer to this message talking about the "Wishlist survey" every year we have. This scarcity generating system also gives funny outcomes. Let's take the 2019 survey. 10 projects were voted. Only 4 done: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Results. Or the 2017 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Mmm... let's read again our Strategic direction...


By 2030, Wikimedia will become the essential infrastructure of the ecosystem of 
free knowledge, and anyone who shares our vision will be able to join us.

We, the Wikimedia contributors, communities, and organizations, will advance 
our world by collecting knowledge that fully represents human diversity, and by 
building the services and structures that enable others to do the same.

We will carry on our mission of developing content as we have done in the past, 
and we will go further.

Yes, having a physics simulation, a calculator, showing how the satellites of 
Jupiter are arranged now... are, by definition, part or the "ecosystem of free 
knowledge" in the same way images are. We currently add images to Commons and 
we don't say: you have a link here if you want to see that image. We also add 
texts and we don't say "just read a book, lol". Having rich media is part of 
the ecosystem of free knowledge, and we should be "building the services and 
structures" to share it. We also should be developing content "further". Is not 
that I think we should do that: is that we have decided to do that.

Also, the Medium Term Plan, that is currently active, says about "Platform 
evolution" this 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Medium-term_plan_2019/Platform_evolution🙂

"support for the integration and discoverability of rich content including 
video, audio, and interactive media, as well as the infrastructure to serve it 
with high performance, high redundancy, and low latency to all parts of the 
world."

So yes, it should be part of the plan, and currently there's no way to achieve 
it.

Best,

Galder

From: Todd Allen 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 10:14 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

You put in a URL that links to one. And there, you're done.

Having a "howto" gadget like that is not the purpose of an article. The purpose 
of an article is to describe, not have a "simulator". A URL to one on some 
other site in the external links section might be quite in order, but that is 
out of scope for Wikipedia itself.

We should never try to be everything to everyone. We have a clear and defined 
scope, and we should stick to it.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 11:57 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
"Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. "

I don't assume it, just we can't do it: 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T169027 or 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T238259


If you know a way to do this kind of interactive content in any given wiki, we 
could go forward fast.

From: Strainu mailto:strain...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 7:45 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise



Pe marți, 26 octombrie 2021, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> a scris:
> Anders: we can't add a physics simulator.

We totally can. It takes programming knowledge and a technical administrator, 
but it's possible.

Don't assume that just because you can't do something it's impossible or even 
particularly hard. What's nearly impossible is to scale such initiatives in a 
meaningful manner (I.e. over 250+ languages).

Strainu

(https://www.physicsclassroom.com/Physics-Interactives/Newtons-Laws). This is 
not "info wars", this is being useful. And we can't do it because... well, 
because we are... obsolete.
>
> 
> From: Anders Wennersten 
> mailto:m...@anderswennersten.se>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 6:02 PM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org<mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> 
> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise
>
>
> We have an army of volunteers to guarantee correctness and that issues of 
> controversies are dealt with in a way that hopefully all parties can accept
>
> we have no cookies or technical things that make us follow up on our editors, 
> truly believing in the full integrity of our users
>
> our financial and governing set up is fully independent of an third party
>
> Our reading interface works well for our users and on most platforms (which 
> is made easier with no technical smarties)
>
> Our interface can be made better for editors, but this does not make it as a 
> phenomenon obsolete
>
> In the info war we are in, it is beer to be on the "bor

[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

2021(e)ko urr. 27(a) 10:57 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (geni ):On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 16:38, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga

 wrote:

> Upload MP4 files



Try Handbrake.No, I want to use Commons. I don't need external software to upload texts or images.



> Have a modern look



That would be the mobile site.Well, yes. Now look at Wikisource in your mobile or to Wikipedia in your desktip



> Create visually interesting cartography



I think open street map got there first.And we still use maps in our Encyclopedia. 



> Hear the articles



Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the

best use of our resources.We want to give knowledge to everyone in the world. Also those without screen readers or whose languages are not currently supported.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

All these discussions are interesting, but worthless. Because... we are 
obsolete, our money room will be larger soon, but there's no plan to go beyond 
3-4 wishlist ideas every year.

And that's the drama.

From: Bence Damokos 
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 6:53 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: An Uzbek praktical joke and Wikimedia Enterprise

Still, consider that if the spoken  feature is exposed to all users, it would 
raise awareness to more people when articles are not well formated for screen 
readers… And screen readers are not available in all languages, so the effort 
put into the speech synthesizer in new languages could benefit a wider userbase.

Best regards,
Bence

Le mer. 27 oct. 2021 à 16:18, Andy Mabbett 
mailto:a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk>> a écrit :
On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 at 13:59, Andreas Kolbe 
mailto:jayen...@gmail.com>> wrote:

>> > Not sure that duplicating the work of a range of screen readers is the
>> > best use of our resources.
>>
>> I agree; such functionality belongs in the user client (screen reader,
>> browser, whatever), not in the subject website.
>
> an excerpt from the marketing text

As a professional web manager (1994-2011), I had companies trying to
sell me such services regularly. And why wouldn't they, given the
number of websites they could sell it to, over, and over, and over,
again?

Equally consistently, people who /needed/ such assistance told us they
wanted it in the client, not the website; and that all they required
of the websites was to be web-standards-complaint (by which they meant
WCAG[1]).


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Content_Accessibility_Guidelines

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Translating Wikipedia articles

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Ziko for your point of view,
For a small Wikipedia like the Basque Wikipedia ContentTranslation is a game 
changer. Our partners from Elhuyar Foundation have been working with WMF to 
provide their machine translation system (Elia) so, now, we can translate 
between eu, es, ca, gl, fr and en. This makes everything faster, and, although 
the translation is far from perfect, it saves a lot of time. Some issues you 
are presenting, especially those related to templates and references, should be 
worked better. As far as I know, the system uses template links from Wikidata, 
and you can add which labels are which in the other languages, using alias in 
the templatedata.

The system may be improved, but the product is way better than we had some 
years ago.

Galder

From: Ziko van Dijk 
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2021 12:40 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Translating Wikipedia articles

Hello,

I would like to share some experiences with the Content Translation
tool when I translated an article from German to English Wikipedia.
There are issues that could need a movement wide discussion,
especially: the use of references, and the use of automatic
translation.

Links:
About the tool: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation
My article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autumn_Crisis_1850 (The
subject is a conflict in the German history of the 19th century.)

1. Why use the tool at all?
In general, I am quite impressed with the tool as it is now. It saves
me the hassle to deal with Wikidata, as the link is made
automatically. It also makes it easy to use the pictures in the
original article. Sometimes, the tool even manages to translate an
internal link to another Wikipedia article. (In many other cases, I
had to do the linking manually, as "Otto von Manteuffel" was not
recognised as the same person as in the already existing article
[[en:Otto Theodor von Manteuffel]].)
I also like that the tool saves my edits, so that I can continue
translating another day without having to save the text externally.

2. What about automatic translation?
I decided to make use of automatic translation, name "deepl.com" as
this website does an excellent job (at least between the languages
that I understand). The main reason for me is to save time: the
website knows many English terms I would have to look up. It is not
just about the terms but also the correct prepositions etc. Also: is
it "campsite" or "camp site"?

The automatic translation, still, is not perfect, and I would never
advise to use it without checking each and every sentence. You always
have to read carefully the original paragraph and then the proposed
translation. At that occasion, I consult my online dictionary a lot.

And, frankly, when I translate from a foreign language (such English)
to my native language (German), I don't use the automatic translation
but create the German text all by myself. My own wording may differ
significantly from the original, because it is my goal to create a
readable German article, not to preserve the original text with all
its details and difficulties.

Usual problems with the automatic translation of deepl.com are:
* a strange wording, even the omission of whole words
* a misunderstanding of the original text; for example, the original
German article in this case dealt with the "Confederation" and the
"Union" in Germany 1850, and deepl.com at one occasion wrote
"Confederation" where it should have been "Union"
* Deepl.com does not always recognize proper scientific terms. Also,
in some cases, the German term differs from the usual one in English,
e.g. the "German Dualism" is usually called the "Austrian-Prussian
rivalry" in English.
* Deepl.com sometimes translated "Kurhessen" to "Kurhessen", in other
cases to "Electoral Hesse", in others to "Electorate of Hesse". All of
these translations are correct, but I decided to use only "Kurhessen"
in the final text.

So in general, I think that the translations from deepl.com are often
astonishingly great. But you have to check them carefully.

3. Should we integrate automatic translation into the tool?
As you know, many Wikipedia language versions do not allow for the use
of automatic translation within our tool. The main reason: some people
deliver articles without a clean-up. The result are unreadable or
misleading new articles in, e.g., English Wikipedia. (In German
Wikipedia, we call unreadable articles "Babel Fish accidents".)

But should the discussion end here? For example, we might want to
allow automatic translation for those editors who actually do the
clean-up. Why not giving the permission to editors who apply for the
right to use automatic translation within the tool? Should an editor
indeed deliver bad translations, the editor could still loose this
right.

By the way, I made use of deepl.com translations by simply
copying+pasting the paragraphs. Alas, I had to do this for every
single paragraph which is q

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

If the Wishlist Survey 2022 goes on, my proposal will be simple: make the first 
50 wishes. We have money. We need it. And we are not doing essential things. 
Also, solving platform issues shouldn't be something to vote on. I don't 
understand why we have to vote to have solutions to even basic infrastructure 
issues.

Best,
Galder

From: Mike Peel 
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 7:23 PM
To: DerHexer via Wikimedia-l 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us 
and prepare

I agree with the issues here, but I don't think that the solution should
be to get rid of the wishlist. Instead, it really should be expanded so
it can handle many more of the wishes, since there are many good ones
that keep getting proposed but just don't get enough votes to be in the
top ten.

Thanks,
Mike

On 29/12/21 10:11:14, DerHexer via Wikimedia-l wrote:
> I have to agree with Gnangarra: Why should keeping one of our major
> projects running require a global popularity vote? The way how the
> various problems on Commons are (not!) handled by WMF and others is not
> acceptable anymore. We don't need a poll to detect that! It's not a wish
> we have, it's a demand we make: Get Commons fixed now, as soon as
> possible! And I don't care who does: WMF, WMDE, anybody else.
>
> It's nice to have additional ressources for popular community wishes
> but clean up your own backyard first!
>
> Best,
> DerHexer (Top 10 contributor on Commons, Commons administrator, Steward)
>
>
> Am Mittwoch, 29. Dezember 2021, 10:32:22 MEZ hat Amir Sarabadani
>  Folgendes geschrieben:
>
>
> The wishlist survey is defined as:
>  > The Community Wishlist Survey is an annual survey that allows
> contributors to the Wikimedia projects to propose and vote for tools and
> platform improvements
>
> That doesn't necessarily translate into just "new tools". The community
> can wish for better support of multimedia stack and improvements on the
> multimedia platform and If it gets enough votes, I'm hopeful it'll be
> picked up.
>
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 8:02 AM Željko Blaće  > wrote:
>
> Nice. This looks much better than before. Previously it felt so many
> people had high hopes for projects that are outside of capacities
> that are committed to this project. I feel this needs to be a super
> clear fact from the start and not ask for the global community to
> commit XYZ number of hours in the actions of promoting, translating,
> proposing and decision making processes when developers can commit
> far less back to the same community. Otherwise it feels like
> unbalanced work from a more holistic perspective, but this is also
> non-exceptional...no?
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Uplifting the multimedia stack (was: Community Wishlist Survery)

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

The issue is still there. And I don't know if a new CEO will make things 
change: I assume that there are some team leaders reading this mailing list, 
but we hardly ever see progress. No one seems to be accountable.

Let's remember that we used to have a book creator that was broken on purpose 
to change to a new PDF creator that isn't still working property: more than 
three years ago I opened this ticket and I assume that no one is going to solve 
this ever: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T209837. Because we have a LOT of 
money. Mountains of money. But there is no one driving our luxury car.

Sincerely
Galder

From: Asaf Bartov 
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:08 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Cc: Wikimedia developers ; Wikimedia Commons 
Discussion List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikitech-l] Re: Uplifting the multimedia stack 
(was: Community Wishlist Survery)

Yes, I did not purport to offer an easy solution.  I tried to clarify *what 
needs to happen* for significant progress on these issues, without suggesting 
that it is easy to make that happen.

As I mentioned, a new CEO is beginning work this week, and one of the (many) 
items on her to-do list is to improve and rationalize the Foundation's annual 
planning process, and cross-departmental planning and decision-making.  Let's 
give her some time and wait for some guidance on this question of venue, i.e. 
how and where communities may *effectively* express needs and affect priorities.

In the meantime, I repeat my suggestion that adding non-technical concise 
statements of impact to each issue would be a big help.  For example, I (and 
many of you) know the impact of our slow/broken video conversion and upload 
workflows, but it would be helpful to add to SJ's "Bulk conversion for video 
uploads (videoconverter / video2commons are broken)" an impact statement such 
as "this is deterring video uploads from casual contributors".

Cheers,

   A.
   (volunteer capacity)

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 10:45 PM Samuel Klein 
mailto:meta...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I appreciate all of the comments; still unsure where to more persistently host 
the conversation, but for now I posted this still-arbitrary list on 
Commons.  (adding other 
items mentioned in this thread)  SJ


- File formats: Support high-demand formats – e.g. CSV, 
CML, + hundreds of 
other open tickets
- Uploads:  Improve bulk, large, and video uploads.
   + Bulk conversion for video uploads (videoconverter / video2commons are 
broken)
   + Upload Wizard upgrades 
(timeouts, batch renaming, batch 
imports)
- Downloads:  Fix multi-download 
(Imker is 
broken)
   + Make public dumps (stale since 
2013)
- Video playback:  Debug + roll out the 
videojs player
- Search:  Bring CQS back up.  
Implement a noauth option for tools
- General: Move to a blazegraph alternative (for wqcs)
   + Images: Update thumbor and 
librsvg  ||  
redesign the image table
- Curation: Simpler content assessment workflow, like 
en:wp's (QI/VP 
doesn't scale)

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: ? structural problems overview (WAS: Uplifting the multimedia stack (was: Community Wishlist Survery))

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I would be great to continue discussing this on Meta if someone would solve the 
issues. I doubt this is going to happen. Ever.

From: Željko Blaće 
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 12:17 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Cc: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List ; 
Wikitech-l 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] ? structural problems overview (WAS: Uplifting the 
multimedia stack (was: Community Wishlist Survery))

Dear ALL -
this was informative discussion on several issues,
but I fear the mailing-list is likely an inadequate way
to see all the structural problems and this complexity
with adequate distance (beyond single issue discussions).

Now I wonder if it makes more sense maybe, to use
(sorry for being so blunt here) a page on Meta (?!)
for listing structural problems and organizing online event or two
(maybe an office hour format) with few people on the WMF side.

Who can list the biggest 'red flags' that manifest
as huge and hard to solve issues (affecting major resources,
not just multimedia, though it is very dear to me also).

To be fair to all - not to expect too much, but to gain overview.
I would love to attend this even if it only helps me understand
the fragility of the Wikimedia system and all challenges ahead.

Best Z. Blace

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Commons-l] Uplifting the multimedia stack (was: Community Wishlist Survery)

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I would like to be optimistic, but... https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T2891012022(e)ko urt. 3(a) 15:28 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Brion Vibber ):(Anyway I'm just grumping. I hear positive things about plans for this year and I'm heartened to see more folks involved in planning the next stages!)-- brionOn Mon, Jan 3, 2022, 6:10 AM Brion Vibber  wrote:On Thu, Dec 30, 2021, 10:27 AM Samuel Klein  wrote:Separate thread.  I'm not sure which list is appropriate. ... but not all the way to sentience.The annual community wishlist survey (implemented by a small team, possibly in isolation?) may not be the mechanism for prioritizing large changes, but the latter also deserves a community-curated priority queue.  To complement the staff-maintained priorities in phab ~For core challenges (like Commons stability and capacity), I'd be surprised if the bottleneck were people or budget. Currently there are zero people and no budget for multimedia, aside from whatever work I and others manage to get done here there. And I'm afraid I don't scale.It's Wikimedia Foundation's job to assign budget and people here. I've been hoping for years that this will happen, and continue to hope.-- brion We do need a shared understanding of what issues are most important and most urgent, and how to solve them. For instance, a way to turn Amir's recent email about the problem (and related phab tickets) into a family of persistent, implementable specs and proposals and their articulated obstacles.An issue tracker like phab is good for tracking the progress and dependencies of agreed-upon tasks, but weak for discussing what is important, what we know about it, how to address it. And weak for discussing ecosystem-design issues that are important and need persistent updating but don't have a simple checklist of steps.So where is the best current place to discuss scaling Commons, and all that entails?  Some examples from recent discussions (most from the wm-l thread below):- Uploads: Support for large file uploads / Keeping bulk upload tools online- Video: Debugging + rolling out the videojs player- Formats: Adding support for CML and dozens of other common high-demand file formats- Thumbs: Updating thumbor and librsvg- Search: WCQS still down, noauth option wanted for tools- General: Finish implementing redesign of the image tableSJOn Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 6:26 AM Amir Sarabadani  wrote:I'm not debating your note. It is very valid that we lack proper support for multimedia stack. I myself wrote a detailed rant on how broken it is [1] but three notes: - Fixing something like this takes time, you need to assign the budget for it (which means it has to be done during the annual planning) and if gets approved, you need to start it with the fiscal year (meaning July 2022) and then hire (meaning, write JD, do recruitment, interview lots of people, get them hired) which can take from several months to years. Once they are hired, you need to onboard them and let them learn about our technical infrastructure which takes at least two good months. Software engineering is not magic, it takes time, blood and sweat. [2] - Making another team focus on multimedia requires changes in planning, budget, OKR, etc. etc. Are we sure moving the focus of teams is a good idea? Most teams are already focusing on vital parts of wikimedia and changing the focus will turn this into a whack-a-mole game where we fix multimedia but now we have critical issues in security or performance. - Voting Wishlist survey is a good band-aid in the meantime. To at least address the worst parts for now.I don't understand your point tbh, either you think it's a good idea to make requests for improvements in multimedia in the wishlist survey or you think it's not. If you think it's not, then it's offtopic to this thread.[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/WMPZHMXSLQJ6GONAVTFLDFFMPNJDVORS/[2] There is a classic book in this topic called "The Mythical Man-month"On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 11:41 AM Gnangarra  wrote:we have to vote for regular maintenance and support for essential functions like uploading files which is the core mission of Wikimedia Commons
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks, Natalia, for the answers.

The problem is deeper than previously thought, and asking volunteers to use 
their time proposing things that no one knows if will fall in the "too big" or 
in the "dismissed" categories is a bad practice. It creates tension and anger. 
And, the worst thing, it promotes scarcity. In previous years I have asked for 
some very obvious things, and most of them has been dismissed directly, without 
an option to be even discussed or voted. This year I will only ask for one 
thing: 50 wishes. If it is dismissed, next year I will ask for 100 wishes.

Sincerely,
Galder

From: Natalia Rodriguez 
Sent: Wednesday, January 5, 2022 5:10 PM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us 
and prepare

Hey all,
Nice to meet many of you for the first time! Thanks for your feedback and for 
raising larger concerns around resource allocation at the Foundation. These 
concerns are extremely valid-- especially the ones around allocating resources 
for less supported platforms such as Commons and broken infrastructure. The 
wishlist process will begin next week with the proposal phase starting Jan 10.

In the email thread, I identified some open questions about the Wishlist 
process so I am answering them here.


  *
Can we vote/focus on the maintenance of tools rather than new tools?
 *
Yes. The wishes that we work on do not have to be associated with a new tool. 
In the past we’ve taken on projects that were maintenance related. For example, 
in the last year, we took on improvement projects for Wikisource Export and 
Wikisource OCR tools, among other initiatives. We also maintain and fix all the 
tools we’ve built in the past. Check out the fresh documentation about what 
qualifies as a proposal 
here.
 *
Gnangarra, your points about the issues with bulk uploads in Commons would make 
a sound proposal-- a proposal does not have to be a new tool in the least. The 
part about uploading large files is out of scope for our team though (see link 
above about our areas of focus, the issue is 
infrastructural and too large for 
what we can take on). I still believe there is value in suggesting it, though.
 *
We have Talk to 
Us
 hours on January 19-- where the entire team will be available for a video call 
to help folks who want to write proposals and polish them so that they may get 
selected.


  *
What if what we want fixed is larger than what the Community Tech team can 
accomplish?
 *
This year, we will be talking directly with leadership about larger wishes that 
we can't fulfill ourselves. To make this possible, we will no longer be 
formally 'Archiving' ideas. One improvement we are implementing from 
conversations with all of you at past Talk to Us Hours and other places, is 
that we will place projects that are too large for us into a new category 
called “Larger Suggestions'' because we still want people to be able to voice 
those needs. We plan to share this with the Foundation's leadership during the 
WMF's annual planning, which takes place in the spring.
 *
This being said, if you have an idea that may be too large for us to take on, I 
would also encourage you to come to Talk to Us Hours (link above) and see if we 
can help you workshop the proposal into something we can help with. If we can’t 
then I would still highly encourage you to propose, by all means! Chances are 
if you think it’s an important problem, many other members do as well.
 *
Finally, the wishlist isn't just for Community Tech. Volunteer developers and 
other Wikimedia Foundation teams have taken on wishes from the wishlist. For 
this reason, there is a chance that a wish may not be appropriate for our team, 
but it can be addressed by someone else.


  *
Why isn’t the WMF fixing what we feel are  be the most urgently needed fixes in 
functionality?
 *
This is a larger question that gets answered at the board and C-leadership 
levels. There are also some relatively new teams at the Foundation, such as 
Architecture and Platform Engineering, that aim to improve the technical 
infrastructure overall in the years to come. However, every team can help with 
the answer and Community Tech can help with communication of technical needs. 
This “Larger Suggestions” collection of wishes I mentioned in the previous 
answer will not be a silver bullet that fixes all of the problems, but I 
believe in the power of incremental steps to steer us in that direction.


  *
How can we communicate the urgency of the fixes that we need?
 *
I don’t believe there is any lack of documentation of concerns about 
functionality that is broken. Folks are right to point out that it’s about 
synthesizin

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Are we losing our readers?

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

There's another option: the 2020 pandemic lockdowns made a huge peak on views, so year on year, 2021 has worse results.2022(e)ko urt. 7(a) 18:41 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Anders Wennersten ):When I look at statistics for mature wikipedias: en, de pl, nl they all 
show a decrease of views of 13-15% in last 12 months from a year ago, 
and number of active editors down 10- 20 % (with exception of en).

Has this been analysed somewhere, are we losing our readers and 
contributors or is it mostly Google that access our info "smarter" not 
creating "views"

Anders

https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/de.wikipedia.org

https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org

https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/nl.wikipedia.org

https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/pl.wikipedia.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: The Wikimedia Foundation Research Award of the Year - Call for Nominations

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Hello,I wonder why a multicultural project, whose major strength is in the multilingual approach asks for a research to be on English."* The publication must be available in English."I'm currently researching about Wikimedia, and I'm doing it in Basque language. I hope to publish in a couple of years my PhD, and I hope to do it in Basque. I have read good research in other languages, mainly Spanish, French and Italian, that are languages I can understand. There should be great research in German and Russian, I hope there are good peer reviewed articles in Arabic or Chinese. I wonder if someone is researching in Guarani, Odia, Xhosa or Nynorsk. I have personally met researchers working on Mayan languages.Narrowing research to the language of the Empire is against our principles, our strategy and our vision.I hope there is a change in this point.Sincerely,Galder.2022(e)ko urt. 7(a) 20:48 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Leila Zia ):[Apologies for cross-posting.]

Hi all,

We invite you to nominate one or more scholarly research publications
to be considered for the Wikimedia Foundation Research Award of the
Year. Learn more below.

=Purpose of the award=
Recognize recent research on or about the Wikimedia projects or recent
research that is of importance to the Wikimedia projects. Recognize
the researchers behind the research.

You can learn more about 2021's winners at
https://research.wikimedia.org/awards.html .

=Eligibility criteria=
Your nomination must meet the following criteria:

* The research must be on, about, using data from, and/or of
importance to Wikipedia, Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikimedia Commons or
other Wikimedia projects.

* The publication must be available in English.

* The research must have been published between January 1, 2021 and
December 31, 2021.

=Nomination process=
Submit your nominations by 2022-02-07 through
https://easychair.org/conferences/?conf=wmfray2021 . We will ask you
to provide the following information in your nomination:

* Title of the manuscript
* A copy of the manuscript you are nominating
* A summary of the research and a clear justification for why the work
merits the award (in 350 words or fewer in English).

Note that self-nominations and nominations of others' work are both welcome.

==Winner(s)==
The winner(s) will be announced in a ceremony as part of Wiki Workshop
2022: https://wikiworkshop.org/2022/ .

If you have any questions, please contact us at
wmf-ray-2...@easychair.org or here.

Best,
Benjamin Mako Hill (University of Washington)
Leila Zia (Wikimedia Foundation)
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[Wikimedia-l] 50 wishes

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

As promised, here is my proposal: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/50_wishes

I think it will be declined, but let's enjoy some minutes of dreaming.

Sincerely

Galder
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wiki-research-l] Re: The Wikimedia Foundation Research Award of the Year - Call for Nominations

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks, Leila, for answering the question raised.

I'm a bit confused with this, I supposed that the Wikimedia Foundation Research 
Award was an initiative from the Research team of the WMF 
(https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research), but I read in your answer 
that "WikiResearch is primarily in English and about research published in 
English". I understand that the main working language of the WMF is English, as 
this mailing list is, but I would assume that an Award promoted by the WMF 
should be multilingual.

Me, as a Basque Wikimedians User Group member, I promote Wikimedia activities 
in Basque language, because that is our goal. But the WMF is not the English 
Wikimedians User Group, as far as I understand. Our designated lingua franca 
may be English, but the WMF can't exclude research that is not made in this 
language from an Award. I would understand if the (non-existing) English 
Wikimedians User Group created the "EWUG Research in English Award of the 
Year", but is not the case.

Cheers,

Galder


From: Leila Zia 
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 8:04 PM
To: wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org 
Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List ; Discussion list 
for the Wikidata project. 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wiki-research-l] Re: The Wikimedia Foundation 
Research Award of the Year - Call for Nominations

Hi all, Thank you for your feedback. I take your comments as a sign of
genuine care and I'm happy to engage and learn with you how we can do
better. (Note: I'm responding to all lists, though some of the
feedback has been sent only to wikimedia-l.)

* Galder, Gereon, Xavier, Gnangarra, and Andy: thank you for your feedback.

* Andy, I'll respond to your comment first. We do not require the work
to be published under a free license for us to consider it for the
award. However, if the work is shortlisted, we reach out to the
authors, tell them that it's shortlisted, and it can be considered for
the award if the work is at least made publicly available. At that
point, we also encourage the authors to publish under a free license
and share with them a few ways they may be able to (even if the work
is published somewhere already with restrictions). The issue of
licenses is on top of our mind and we actively look for ways to push
for more Wikimedia research work to be published under free licenses.

* I am going to share with you some of my thoughts, and a possible
improvement we can make in the process.

** Let's try to keep things simple to be able to improve things
together. This is not a case of "WMF did x". The idea of the award was
created in the Research team, and both last year and this year, we've
been grateful to have the support of researchers outside of WMF for
it. (Aaron Shaw (Northwestern University), and Benjamin Mako Hill (U.
of Washington)). I take full responsibility for the execution of the
award and I can take your feedback and see where we can improve the
process. :)

** In order to be able to improve the process, I should share more
details about how we do the search for the publications first. We have
multiple sources for searching for research published in a given year:
1. The nomination process we shared on this thread.
2. Research publications shared in WikiResearch twitter account.
3. External research search engines and repositories for different
fields: we use scholar.google.com, dblp.org and more.

To give you a sense of the distribution of scholarly publications we
identified last year from each of the above sources: 11 nominations
and 170+ research publications through the twitter account and
external searches. The award chairs (2 people; this year it is going
to be Mako and I) reviewed all identified publications. We discussed
every publication at varying depth depending on the result of our
initial reviews.

** Knowing the process, there are at least a few ways I think the
process must be improved. I'm sure now that you see more you can
critique even more. :) I proactively share with you some of them here:
::* I need to have an easychair account to nominate. That can/must
change (but to what? we want these nominations to be private, and we
need a way to be able to process them efficiently because we're only 2
people. We are considering openreview.net for the future years because
they're open source; but they still have other limitations. For this
year, easychair it is.).
::* We need more people on the committee: both for workload sharing,
and also including more perspectives. (This is /a lot/ to ask of
researchers. I'm grateful that Mako and Aaron have supported us in the
past.)
::* We need other non-English sources to source community research.
(WikiResearch is primarily in English and about research published in
English.)
::* The shared language of reviewers is assumed to be English. If we
are going to at scale consider other languages, then we need a way
that this group of people can converse on academic topics with one
another without h

[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wiki-research-l] Re: The Wikimedia Foundation Research Award of the Year - Call for Nominations

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Hi Leila,
I have read it, that's why I'm confused.

From: Leila Zia 
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 9:40 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Cc: wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org ; 
Discussion list for the Wikidata project. 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wiki-research-l] Re: The Wikimedia Foundation 
Research Award of the Year - Call for Nominations

Hi Galder,

Please see below.

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 12:26 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga
 wrote:
>
> Thanks, Leila, for answering the question raised.

Anytime.

> I'm a bit confused with this, I supposed that the Wikimedia Foundation 
> Research Award was an initiative from the Research team of the WMF 
> (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research), but I read in your 
> answer that "WikiResearch is primarily in English and about research 
> published in English". I understand that the main working language of the WMF 
> is English, as this mailing list is, but I would assume that an Award 
> promoted by the WMF should be multilingual.

Sorry. Let me clarify. What I was referring to when I used
WikiResearch in my email was the WikiResearch twitter account:
https://twitter.com/WikiResearch . I did not intend to refer to the
WMF Research team or Wikimedia Research community. And to repeat: this
is one source we use to find research done on the Wikimedia projects.
There are other sources as I mentioned in my response.

> Me, as a Basque Wikimedians User Group member, I promote Wikimedia activities 
> in Basque language, because that is our goal. But the WMF is not the English 
> Wikimedians User Group, as far as I understand. Our designated lingua franca 
> may be English, but the WMF can't exclude research that is not made in this 
> language from an Award. I would understand if the (non-existing) English 
> Wikimedians User Group created the "EWUG Research in English Award of the 
> Year", but is not the case.

I understand and acknowledge your point about inclusion. I hope some
of the points I shared about our existing process in my other email
can help you find possible solutions we can consider doing. :) On my
end: I have a todo to come back to you all.

Best,
Leila

> Cheers,
>
> Galder
>
> 
> From: Leila Zia 
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 8:04 PM
> To: wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org 
> Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List ; Discussion list 
> for the Wikidata project. 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wiki-research-l] Re: The Wikimedia Foundation 
> Research Award of the Year - Call for Nominations
>
> Hi all, Thank you for your feedback. I take your comments as a sign of
> genuine care and I'm happy to engage and learn with you how we can do
> better. (Note: I'm responding to all lists, though some of the
> feedback has been sent only to wikimedia-l.)
>
> * Galder, Gereon, Xavier, Gnangarra, and Andy: thank you for your feedback.
>
> * Andy, I'll respond to your comment first. We do not require the work
> to be published under a free license for us to consider it for the
> award. However, if the work is shortlisted, we reach out to the
> authors, tell them that it's shortlisted, and it can be considered for
> the award if the work is at least made publicly available. At that
> point, we also encourage the authors to publish under a free license
> and share with them a few ways they may be able to (even if the work
> is published somewhere already with restrictions). The issue of
> licenses is on top of our mind and we actively look for ways to push
> for more Wikimedia research work to be published under free licenses.
>
> * I am going to share with you some of my thoughts, and a possible
> improvement we can make in the process.
>
> ** Let's try to keep things simple to be able to improve things
> together. This is not a case of "WMF did x". The idea of the award was
> created in the Research team, and both last year and this year, we've
> been grateful to have the support of researchers outside of WMF for
> it. (Aaron Shaw (Northwestern University), and Benjamin Mako Hill (U.
> of Washington)). I take full responsibility for the execution of the
> award and I can take your feedback and see where we can improve the
> process. :)
>
> ** In order to be able to improve the process, I should share more
> details about how we do the search for the publications first. We have
> multiple sources for searching for research published in a given year:
> 1. The nomination process we shared on this thread.
> 2. Research publications shared in WikiResearch twitter account.
> 3. External research search engines and repositories for different
> fields: we use scholar.google.com, dblp.org and more.
>
> To give you a sense of 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: "content was" when deleting pages - is it useful?

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

This is an interesting point, because many trolls actually WIN when we delete 
something, because their trolling is there forever. It should be visible for 
administrators, or if you search for it, but not in the deleted article itself.

From: Amir E. Aharoni 
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 4:03 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: "content was" when deleting pages - is it useful?

Yes, that's what I imagine.

In the Hebrew Wikipedia, this feature is still active, and someone wondered 
what is it actually good for. When I delete pages, I definitely erase things 
that may be in any way problematic. And sometimes I delete them even if they 
aren't. If this feature didn't exist, it wouldn't bother me. But that's my 
experience--maybe I'm missing something.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬


‫בתאריך יום ב׳, 17 בינו׳ 2022 ב-16:35 מאת ‪Newyorkbrad‬‏ 
<‪newyorkb...@gmail.com‬‏>:‬
The problem with this feature was that when the deleted material was libelous, 
offensive, etc., it would still automatically be copied into the deletion 
summary, which served to defeat the entire purpose of deleting it.

Newyorkbrad/IBM


On Monday, January 17, 2022, Amir E. Aharoni 
mailto:amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
Hallo!

There's an old MediaWiki feature: When an administrator deletes a page, a bit 
of its content is automatically added to an edit summary. This is later 
viewable in deletion logs.

If you edit in the English, German, or Italian Wikipedia, then you haven't 
actually seen this feature in years, because administrators in these wikis 
essentially removed it by locally blanking the system messages that make it 
work.

In many other wikis, however, this feature is still working.

Is it actually useful? Or should it perhaps be removed?

Here's a Phabricator task about it:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T299351

If you have an opinion, weigh in there or here.

Thanks!

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us and prepare

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

So, let's face it... this is no a wishlist. This is a rigged process. Why 
should we be using our time for something that won't be done?

From: Szymon Grabarczuk 
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2022 8:11 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Community Wishlist Survey 2022 is coming. Help us 
and prepare

Dear Gnangarra and everyone who feels misinformed,

Please take into account my reply published on the same page, a few diffs 
later: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Larger_suggestions/General_maintenance,_outstanding_phabricator_tickets&diff=next&oldid=22669903

In a nutshell, the voting results are instructions for the Community Tech team. 
Since our team can't hire another team, such wishes, unfortunately, can't be 
voted upon. Instead, these become "larger suggestions" which will be shared 
with the leadership of the Product department at the Wikimedia Foundation.

I invite you to discuss the details on the Survey talk page: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Community_Wishlist_Survey

Best,


[https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/t1GetqH3N05ZDv75_-Q6W0YEm4ofn22ZQVNUIoPTIa-ruOTtteTbCweEL9so7ibpyWciFTgOyeDjTRDNr7bhQtxRjFucqJcb7cFnXUqpcqkBsTGqxZRdpmCCzx5xnCYOks-0sAej]

Szymon Grabarczuk (he/him)

Community Relations Specialist

Wikimedia Foundation


On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 7:18 AM Gnangarra 
mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
so much for all the assurances here 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Multimedia_and_Commons/General_maintenance,_outstanding_phabricator_tickets&diff=next&oldid=22663179
 Out of scope for our team, which I hope is obvious

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 12:26, Gnangarra 
mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Commons issues raised in 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Multimedia_and_Commons#General_maintenance,_outstanding_phabricator_tickets

On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 at 05:16, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
mailto:bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Maybe, the Community Tech team should start picking up long standing issues 
first which are being proposed repetitively almost every year but do not get 
adequate votes to receive their attention.



On Sat, Jan 15, 2022, 00:59 Mike Peel 
mailto:em...@mikepeel.net>> wrote:
Not sure if the opening of the Wishlist has been announced here yet? But
it seems to be open for proposals until the 23rd.

Which means I get to propose fixing a simple technical question for the
fifth time in the wishlist: does this page exist?

Seriously.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2022/Miscellaneous/Check_if_a_page_exists_without_populating_WhatLinksHere

Thanks,
Mike

On 5/1/22 16:10:37, Natalia Rodriguez wrote:
> Hey all,
> Nice to meet many of you for the first time! Thanks for your feedback
> and for raising larger concerns around resource allocation at the
> Foundation. These concerns are extremely valid-- especially the ones
> around allocating resources for less supported platforms such as Commons
> and broken infrastructure. The wishlist process will begin next week
> with the proposal phase starting Jan 10.
>
> In the email thread, I identified some open questions about the Wishlist
> process so I am answering them here.
>
>   *
> Can we vote/focus on the maintenance of tools rather than new tools?
>   o
> Yes. The wishes that we work on do not have to be associated
> with a new tool. In the past we’ve taken on projects that were
> maintenance related. For example, in the last year, we took on
> improvement projects for Wikisource Export and Wikisource OCR
> tools, among other initiatives. We also maintain and fix all the
> tools we’ve built in the past.Check out the fresh documentation
> about what qualifies as a proposal here.
> 
> 
>   o
> Gnangarra, your points about the issues with bulk uploads in
> Commons would make a sound proposal-- a proposal does not have
> to be a new tool in the least. The part about uploading large
> files is out of scope for our team though (see link above about
> our areas of focus, the issue is infrastructural
> and too large for what
> we can take on). I still believe there is value in suggesting
> it, though.
>   o
> We have Talk to Us
> 
> hours
> on January 19-- where the entire team will be available for a
> video call to help folks who want to write proposals and polish
> them so that they may get selected.
>
>
>   *
> What if what we want fixed is larger than what the Community Tech
> team can accomplish?
>   o
> This year, we will be 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Seeking community recommendations for Equity Fund grantees

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

+1
Let's think we get funding for uploading a collection of images from, let's 
say, the exclusion of LGBT women in Myanmar (this is an example), and we think 
this fits perfectly in the Equity Funds grant goals. Well... it doesn't matter, 
Pattypan is broken. We can't upload images massively. Let's make our system 
work and THEN we can start creating cool things in a more equitable way.

From: Gnangarra 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 10:53 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Seeking community recommendations for Equity Fund 
grantees

Perhaps the Equity Fund could invest a few million in developing, building, and 
sustaining the Community Tech team to help it fix all the underlying problems 
that continue to plague the projects. They could then provide equity of 
coverage across all projects, improve participation across all countries.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 15:35, Peter Southwood 
mailto:peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>> wrote:
Good points, these. I hope someone will answer them.
Cheers,
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Inductiveload 
[mailto:inductivel...@gmail.com]
Sent: 26 January 2022 02:36
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Seeking community recommendations for Equity Fund
grantees



On 25 January 2022 17:11:59 GMT, Nadee Gunasena 
mailto:ngunas...@wikimedia.org>>
wrote:
> I've shared more
>information about how we'll be sharing the recommendations and making
>decisions about the grantees on Meta in response to your comment there:
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Knowledge_Equity_Fund#Concerns.

Besides how the grants are allocated in the first place, something I do not
see on that page is the clear description of how the success of the grants
are measured and reported, auditing of expenditures and when the results are
due.

>From the Meta page:

> The Equity Fund is focused on supporting groups outside of the movement
whose work will impact and improve knowledge equity on the Wikimedia
projects over the long term.

Thus I imagine a good part of the results will be able to be tied to long
term changes that will be measurable as some kind of wiki engagement? If the
results are not expected to manifest "on-wiki", where and when are they
expected to manifest? Obviously, "long term" implies no final results
"soon", but responsible management means that the outcomes of interest are,
of course, known already along with a plan for follow-up analysis.

No self-respecting organisation would spend over $7 million without even a
way to tell if the money is being spent as promised, or no way to tell if
the project is working or has lasting effects.

For context, it's enough money to keep the servers on for years, or, as
about 50 person-years of payroll and overhead expenditure, keep a modest dev
team trucking for a decade or so. The story of what knowledge-societal good
has been done with this amount of money will be absolutely fascinating to
anyone with an interest in knowledge equity, and critical to justifying
support for similar initiatives in future. The analysis and accurate
reporting of the outcomes of these grants is at least as valuable to future
similar efforts as the grants themselves. Imagine the utterly disastrous
effect it would have if it were impossible to showcase the success: it could
undermine the whole idea of knowledge equity in general as a worthwhile
financial cause, and within the wiki movement, it would badly injure the
concept that funds donated in good faith are spent carefully.

I look forward to reading in detail about what outcomes have been selected
to be tracked, how and why that selection was made, how each grant is
expected and hoped to affect them, and when and how we may be expected to
find out how it went, both "on the ground" for the grantees and in terms of
the already-set outcomes. These are all things that must already have been
carefully documented.

Down the road, a thorough breakdown of how it actually did go and how it can
be done better, if possible, for future rounds will be a cornerstone of
best-practice for knowledge equity initiatives for years to come.

Cheers,

--IL
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month: We are back in 2022!

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

These are days when geography, culture and topics about Ukraine will be most 
consulted worldwide. I'm trying myself to make some articles about geography at 
eu.wikipedia, regardless of my opinion about the war itself.

BUT... "diplomacy month" seems a bad title for this effort at the current 
moment.

Take care outside.

Galder


From: Gnangarra 
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2022 12:48 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Ukraine's Cultural 
Diplomacy Month: We are back in 2022!

Given previous experience, past examples of this project editors are free to 
make any contributions so I see no issue with governments, institutions or even 
private corporations supporting knowledge sharing activity.   The best time to 
share knowledge is now, the second best is when its under threat, what we cant 
do is share knowledge once its destroyed.

What I do see as unacceptable is saying we shouldn't be sharing knowledge 
because a society and cultures' future is being threatened. We need to be doing 
everything we can to ensure we collect and document as much as we can.  We have 
seen many museums and heritage places lost in the last 20 years due various 
natural and unnatural events.

On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 at 16:53, Yaroslav Blanter 
mailto:ymb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Absolutely.

I am not a fan of government propaganda, but not it is not the best moment to 
discuss it.

Best
Yaroslav

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 7:23 AM effe iets anders 
mailto:effeietsand...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The list archive probably has an answer to your question on 9 feb 2021.

But regardless, writing about Ukrainian culture is never more prudent than when 
it is under threat. Whatever one's personal opinion on this war, I don't think 
anyone will deny that Ukrainian cultural heritage is at risk? Asking people to 
go outside and take photos, that may be a bit much right now, but this is a 
writing exercise. That is the beautiful thing about Wikimedia: we document 
things regardless of how much we 'like' them.

Lodewijk

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 9:59 PM 4nn1l2 
<4nn1l2.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a legitimate concern as several users have dared to ask questions as 
you can see at 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ukraine%27s_Cultural_Diplomacy_Month

We need more transparency regarding this decision. Granted, there was a 
campaign last year around this time, but was it advertised at a global scale? 
At least, I can't remember that.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 8:28 AM Ariel Glenn WMF 
mailto:ar...@wikimedia.org>> wrote:
This campaign was conducted last year at around the same time: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%27s_Cultural_Diplomacy_Month_2021 Let's 
keep any unwarranted speculations off of this list please.

Ariel Glenn
ar...@wikimedia.org

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:55 AM 4nn1l2 
<4nn1l2.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
The timing of this campaign is of real concern and not prudent, I think, 
especially for those of us who strive for neutrality.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 2:47 AM Samuel Klein 
mailto:meta...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for sharing -- a nice idea and gorgeous page; nice to see the wikigap 
challenge model proliferating.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 6:00 PM Valentin Nefedov 
mailto:nefedov.valen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello, dear Wikipedians!
Wikimedia Ukraine, in cooperation with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of 
Ukraine and Ukrainian Institute, has launched the second edition of writing 
challenge Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month, 
which lasts from 17 February to 17 March 2022. The campaign is dedicated to 
famous Ukrainian artists of cinema, music, literature, architecture, design and 
cultural phenomena of Ukraine that made a contribution to world culture. The 
most active contesters will receive prizes.

We invite you to take part and help us improve the coverage of Ukrainian 
culture on Wikipedia in any language!

Sincerely,
Valentyn Nefedov a.k.a. Renvoy
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Sanctions against the Russian Federation; support for Ukrainian Wikimedians

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Some thoughts:

  *   Being neutral is not the same as not taking a side in a conflict. We can 
take side with human rights.
  *   There are wars elsewhere in the world. If we take a decision over 
Ukraine, then other wikimedians may ask the same kind of decisions when another 
country invades a third one. It's not something speculative: the US has invaded 
lot of countries in the last 30 years and is still bombing others, european 
countries invaded Libya, Israel is invading Syria (not to mention the situation 
in Palestine), Saudi Arabia is invading Yemen, France is bombing Chad, Iran may 
be seen as an invader in Lebanon... the list is really long, and every point 
may be discussed.
  *   Our main point is not war. Our main point is co-operation and building 
knowledge together. Wikimedians around the world share this view, independent 
of their views in national or international conflicts.
  *   Let's change the focus: Wikimedians promote peace, because diplomacy and 
conflict solving is something we make better than we think. We build together. 
We work together.
  *   Let's think big: Wiki[m,p]edia must get the Nobel Peace Prize in 2023.

Change my mind.

galder


From: Ilario Valdelli 
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 9:30 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Sanctions against the Russian Federation; support 
for Ukrainian Wikimedians

I agree and I think that the best support is to offer a neutral and complete 
information against any kind of propaganda.

This is what Wikimedia can do better.

Kind regards

On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, 23:21 Valentin Nefedov, 
mailto:nefedov.valen...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for your support! The best "sanctions" WMF can implement is raising 
awareness about the whole situation. For example, the promotion of Ukraine's 
Cultural Diplomacy Month 
2022.
 About Russian Wikipedia: unfortunately, most likely it will get banned in the 
Federation. More than 70 Russian Wikipedians wrote open letter to us on our 
village 
pump
 where they condemned the invasion, so WMF might support people who signed this 
letter legally because of possible threats.

Best regards,
Renvoy

вт, 1 бер. 2022 р. о 22:57 James Heilman 
mailto:jmh...@gmail.com>> пише:
I wonder if a banner raising awareness regarding the existence of offline apps 
specifically Kiwix for when communication goes down would be useful?

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.kiwix.kiwixmobile&hl=en_CA&gl=US

We also have Internet in a Box, with instruction on how to build your own here

https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:Internet-in-a-Box

James

On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 2:37 PM GorillaWarfare 
mailto:gorillawarfarewikipe...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:
+1 on the "what can we all do to help?" question. On the VPN topic, I suspect 
the functionary teams will be pretty open to granting IPBE for folks editing 
from that region. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption#Used_for_anonymous_proxy_editing
 has details if anyone needs it.

– Molly White (GorillaWarfare)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare
she/her
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Our World in Data (OWID)

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

THIS IS GREAT.
One of the best uses of cc I have seen lately. At Basque wikipedia we have been 
trying to include maps uing data uploaded to commons and then using 
Kartographer directly. But this solution is way better. What would we need to 
deploy there and serve as an example of what can be done?

Galder

From: James Heilman 
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 10:51 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Our World in Data (OWID)

We at Wiki Project Med are working to get Our World in Data (OWID) working 
within a mediawiki environment.

1) We have created a mirror of their website on WMF 
servers. Hopefully 
this has allowed us to address security and privacy concerns.

2) We have created an 
extension that 
allows the use of this content within a mediawiki install

3) We have made a bunch of changes to formatting, such as removing the logo, to 
make it compliant with WP practice and style. You can see an example on MDWiki 
in the infobox here.

My question to the movement is are their communities interested in using this 
technology? There are about 4,000 of these 
graphs. We of course will also need to 
develop a framework for translation.

Best
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation governance and Russian finances

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I would understand that the non-existing Wikimedia United Stated Chapter should 
need to check if they have investments in/from Russia. The Wikimedia Foundation 
receives donations worldwide, including Russian citizens. And we provide 
knowledge to everyone, including Russian citizens. Blocking ourselves when many 
wikimedians around Russia, Ukraine and many other countries are at risk, is not 
only bad for our mission, is also risky for our contributors.

From: Nathan 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2022 4:26 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation governance and Russian finances

I read the original e-mail as asking for something more than implementing 
recent sanctions. I hope and assume that the WMF has already taken the 
necessary steps to ensure that its activities are in compliance with applicable 
laws.

I agree with Gerard that the WMF is different from Facebook, and its mission 
may make taking steps beyond those required by sanctions unnecessary or 
undesirable. I know there is a BDS-esque movement afoot against Russian 
interests, but "are you now or have you ever supported Russian interests" is in 
a category of questions that the WMF should very carefully consider before 
posing to any party. What may make sense for major corporations may not be 
appropriate for non-profits with an exclusively educational and explicitly 
global mission.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: UNLOCK free knowledge projects | Call for application

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

That's great news, Gerard,
I'm a bit concerned about finding children that shouldn't be for children 
(i.e.: death, violence, porn...) when we are not specifically looking for 
those. I have a recent experience finding porn videos in front of a full 
audience (19 years old, phew!) when searching for their neighbourhood: 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T305092.

Searching in Commons should be improved also in this kind of issues, if we 
don't want to have other problems.

Cheers

Galder


From: Gerard Meijssen 
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 2:06 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: UNLOCK free knowledge projects | Call for application

Hoi,
Wikimedia Germany produced a tool that allows people to find pictures based on 
the Wikidata item they are associated with (depicts)... As Wikidata uses labels 
in all the Wikimedia languages, it follows that when labels exist, children who 
seek pictures at school can find these pictures.

When this tool exclusively supports a language, it follows that the current 
goobledegook you get when you search Commons will be prevented. When children 
can find pictures at Commons, we can campaign for pictures that are relevant in 
a geographical setting... ie occupations in Nigeria, Benin, Serbia.Children can 
illustrate their work using Commons media, when they know Commons for what it 
has, it will enthuse people to work in their own language Wikipedia.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 at 12:53, Kannika Thaimai 
mailto:kannika.thai...@wikimedia.de>> wrote:

Dear fellow Wikimedians,


We are happy to announce that applications for the innovation program UNLOCK 
open from today – April 5th! We are calling for ideas and projects that break 
down social and technical barriers preventing people from both accessing and 
contributing to free knowledge.


In alignment with recommendation 9 “Innovate in free knowledge” [1] of the 
Movement Strategy, we look for early stage projects that address knowledge 
equity, including technical ones that make the access and contribution to 
knowledge easier, more inclusive and equitable. We also look for non-technical 
projects, concepts or standards that create more opportunities for everyone to 
participate in free knowledge projects – leading to a more inclusive 
representation of the diverse knowledge of our world.


Participating teams will benefit from a structured online program with tailored 
coaching, access to an international network of experts, peer-to-peer exchange 
and a scholarship.

== Who is the program for? ==

We are looking for Wikimedians as well as free knowledge enthusiasts, 
developers, designers and activists from outside the Wikimedia movement. For 
this year’s edition, Wikimedia Deutschland teamed up with Wikimedia Serbia to 
co-design and co-host the program which will have a regional focus on the 
Western Balkan and German-speaking area. This means that applications are open 
to project teams (of a minimum of two and no more than five members) from the 
following countries: Albania, Austria, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Germany, Kosovo, 
Montenegro, North Macedonia as well as Serbia and Switzerland. The program 
language is English in order to enable exchange and create synergies among the 
cross-regional project teams. UNLOCK is designed to work completely virtually.

Applications are open from April 5th until May 29th!

== You want to apply? ==

Great – we look forward to your ideas! Please head over to the UNLOCK program 
page [2] for details (incl. eligibility criteria, program timeline, application 
form and more) If you require further assistance with your application or if 
you have an idea but are not sure whether or not to apply, feel free to reach 
out to the organizing team behind the program via Email: 
unl...@wikimedia.de

== You know people who would be interested in this program? ==

Feel free to share this call in your network and community beyond the mailing 
list.

Warm regards,
Kannika (WMDE) and Ivana (WMRS)

[1] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Innovate_in_Free_Knowledge

[2] https://www.wikimedia.de/unlock/program/

--

Kannika Thaimai (she/her)
Innovation Engine - Strategy Lead
>> WMDE innovation engine 
>> strategy
>> UNLOCK Accelerator

Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Phone: +49 30 219 158 26-0
https://wikimedia.de

Keep up to date! Current news and exciting stories about Wikimedia,
Wikipedia and Free Knowledge in our newsletter (in German):
https://www.wikimedia.de/newsletter/

Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Collection / Special:Book usage

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

AFAIK, you can't then print the book or download as PDF. This used to work, but the WMF decidef to break it and never fixed it.2022(e)ko api. 16(a) 11:43 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du ("Amir E. Aharoni" ):Hi,As far as I can see, the Collection extension, which provides the Special:Book page, is deployed on nearly all Wikimedia wikis.Is there data that shows how often do people actually use it?--Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִיhttp://aharoni.wordpress.com‪“We're living in pieces,I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Collection / Special:Book usage

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

No one or very few use it, because you can't save a book. I had some teachers in our university courses who used it to download what their students did, but since the WMF decided to break it, evidently they are not using it anymore. I repeat: it worked and it was broken in purpose. So now we have an option to create a book but no actual book can be created, besides printing it with PediaPress.2022(e)ko api. 17(a) 09:59 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du ("Amir E. Aharoni" ):> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 09:29 Strainu  wrote:> >> > The correct question is: does it still do anything of value?> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 17 באפר׳ 2022 ב-10:42 מאת ‪Jan Ainali‬‏ <‪ainali@gmail.com‬‏>:‬>> Even with all output options broken it is still a decent user interface for creating and organizing collections of articles.This may well be true, but I'm wondering how much is it *actually* used. I know I never use it, but it's possible that thousand of other people do. If it's true, then everything is fine. I can't find a log of its usage, or a statistics page that shows how often do people use this feature.It currently appears in at least two prominent places:1. "Create a book" link in the desktop sidebar (in some wikis; I don't see it in the English Wikipedia, but I do see it in Swedish and Basque).2. "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Main" group in translatewiki.net, which means that volunteer localizers are asked to translate it with (relatively) high priority.If only, say, five people use it in the whole Wikimedia universe, then perhaps someone should consider downgrading its prominence or maybe removing it entirely.On translatewiki, I can move it from "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Main" to "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Advanced" or even to "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Legacy", but again, before I do this, I'd like to make sure that it's not actually used by a lot of people.--Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִיhttp://aharoni.wordpress.com‪“We're living in pieces,I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Collection / Special:Book usage

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

The problem is not that it was "Just one of the things that died out because no-one could be bothered to maintain it", it is worse: it was broken on purpose, and not recovered, because the WMF decided that no one cares about it.You can read about the process here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T1867402022(e)ko api. 19(a) 09:00 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Peter Southwood ):I used to use it, but then it broke so I stopped using it. Just one of the things that died out because no-one could be bothered to maintain it.  Cheers, Peter From: Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga [mailto:galder...@hotmail.com] Sent: 17 April 2022 17:47To: Wikimedia Mailing ListSubject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Collection / Special:Book usage No one or very few use it, because you can't save a book. I had some teachers in our university courses who used it to download what their students did, but since the WMF decided to break it, evidently they are not using it anymore. I repeat: it worked and it was broken in purpose. So now we have an option to create a book but no actual book can be created, besides printing it with PediaPress. 2022(e)ko api. 17(a) 09:59 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du ("Amir E. Aharoni" ):> On Sun, Apr 17, 2022, 09:29 Strainu <strain...@gmail.com> wrote:> >> > The correct question is: does it still do anything of value?> ‫בתאריך יום א׳, 17 באפר׳ 2022 ב-10:42 מאת ‪Jan Ainali‏ <‪ainali@gmail.com‏>:>> Even with all output options broken it is still a decent user interface for creating and organizing collections of articles.This may well be true, but I'm wondering how much is it *actually* used. I know I never use it, but it's possible that thousand of other people do. If it's true, then everything is fine. I can't find a log of its usage, or a statistics page that shows how often do people use this feature. It currently appears in at least two prominent places:1. "Create a book" link in the desktop sidebar (in some wikis; I don't see it in the English Wikipedia, but I do see it in Swedish and Basque).2. "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Main" group in translatewiki.net, which means that volunteer localizers are asked to translate it with (relatively) high priority. If only, say, five people use it in the whole Wikimedia universe, then perhaps someone should consider downgrading its prominence or maybe removing it entirely. On translatewiki, I can move it from "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Main" to "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Advanced" or even to "Extensions used by Wikimedia - Legacy", but again, before I do this, I'd like to make sure that it's not actually used by a lot of people.--Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִיhttp://aharoni.wordpress.com‪“We're living in pieces,I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore  This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Collection / Special:Book usage

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

We may differ in what was first: abandoning it or closing it, but the process is available at phabricator.Here it wais said FOUR! years ago that the service would be closed and done by PediaPress (what didn't happen): https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T184772#4116906Here, we have a more detailed post saying that the functionality would be back: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T184772#4119731The last details were provided 3 years ago, when it was said that the PediaPress "solution" didn't happen: https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Uxkv0ib36m3i8volWe migh also have a different view on priorities, but a Foundation with 100 million dollars in a vault can pay for someone to solve this issue, no doubts. The problem is again that we have a vehicle, but no maintenance and no one driving it down the slope.By the way: the Proton PDF render is also failing if the article has a gallery. But no one cares about it. It used to work, it was broken, and no one was responsible for the fail.SincerelyGalder2022(e)ko api. 20(a) 17:02 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Gergő Tisza ):On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 11:04 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:The problem is not that it was "Just one of the things that died out because no-one could be bothered to maintain it", it is worse: it was broken on purpose, and not recovered, because the WMF decided that no one cares about it.That is patently untrue. The book renderer (OCG) was, due to the lack of maintenance, increasingly causing problems for the operators of Wikimedia production services, and the approach it was based on (converting wikitext to LaTeX) resulted in an endless stream of discrepancies in the PDF output. It was replaced with another PDF rendering service that used a headless browser - an approach that resulted in much more faithful rendering (basically it outsourced the cost of maintaining a good PDF generator to browser vendors) but didn't scale well and wouldn't have been able to handle large collections of articles.I'm not fond of that decision but it obviously wasn't about disabling something that worked before, just for fun. The Foundation had to choose between risking platform stability, a significant time investment to modernize the service (at the detriment of other projects that time could be invested into), and shutting down a feature that saw relatively little use, and chose the third.FWIW there was a volunteer-maintained service doing LaTeX-based multi-article book generation which might still be functional: https://mediawiki2latex.wmflabs.org/
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Collection / Special:Book usage

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

There are lot of ways a PDF collection may be used. Most of the languages in the world don't have textbooks. Providing them is strategic and part of our vision. Downloading a bunch of articles from wikivoyage and making a travel guide is another one. Showing the articles made by a group of students to the school director so they appreciate the length of the work is another one. Building collections for readers who can't access a computer or Internet is another one... As said, this is something ot was made and now is broken, not a new feature.2022(e)ko api. 21(a) 11:45 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Gergő Tisza ):On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 11:14 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:We may differ in what was first: abandoning it or closing it, but the process is available at phabricator.What was first was regular production incidents caused by OCG, which would have required a rewrite (and to some extent rearchitecting) to operate smoothly. That would have been a major project, plus the service had a constant maintenance cost (it was a node.js service, and node is relatively maintenance-heavy), and the WMF did not want to maintain two different renderers forever. We migh also have a different view on priorities, but a Foundation with 100 million dollars in a vault can pay for someone to solve this issue, no doubts.Yes, or the money (probably a quarter-year work for a team, at least, so that might be something like $300K?) can be used on something else. There are a huge number of things to spend money on, and IMO it's hard to argue for the strategic importance of PDF book rendering. It wasn't used much, it would have been work-intensive to maintain  (every new wikitext feature would have required special handling for the LaTeX transformation, and there are all kinds of wikitext/HTML constructs which are not easy to express in LaTeX), and there isn't much value in a PDF of Wikipedia articles when the originals are freely available over the internet (and for people with difficulties accessing the internet, there are better alternatives).(Personally, I don't think Proton was worth the investment, either - it doesn't give much value beyond the PDF generation that most browsers are already capable of doing.) By the way: the Proton PDF render is also failing if the article has a gallery. But no one cares about it. It used to work, it was broken, and no one was responsible for the fail.I assume that refers to T209837?The drawback of Proton is that since it uses a headless browser for PDF rendering, there isn't much room to influence how the rendering goes (beyond CSS tweaks or upstream bug reports), so issues like that might not be easily fixed. (OTOH it at least displays galleries, which OCG didn't.)
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: UNLOCK free knowledge projects | 10 days left to apply

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Hello Kannika,
As far as I understand, these projects are limited to the Balkans and/or German 
speaking regions, isn't it?

Thanks

Galder

From: Kannika Thaimai 
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2022 8:00 AM
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] UNLOCK free knowledge projects | 10 days left to apply


Dear fellow Wikimedians,


We would like to remind you of the open call for applications to join the 
Wikimedia accelerator program – UNLOCK .


Applications are open until May 29th!


== What type of ideas are we looking for? ==


The program calls for ideas and projects that break down social and technical 
barriers preventing people from both accessing and contributing to free 
knowledge. The ideas could cover

  *   new technologies or tools that support more diverse modes and formats of 
knowledge (audio, visual, video, etc.). One example for this is an UNLOCK 2020 
project Audiopedia – an open source platform for audio content that addresses 
primarily non-readers in the Global South ; or

  *   further development of existing Wikimedia projects to create new impact 
projects, such as GovDirectory (participants in UNLOCK 2021) – a global 
directory of government agencies and their online presence by utilizing 
Wikidata. This project does not only use Wikidata, but also help improve the 
data on Wikidata 
;
 or

  *   alternative practices and concepts that create more opportunities for 
everyone to participate in free knowledge projects – your idea for a more 
inclusive representation of the diverse knowledge of our world.

== Who can apply? ==

We are looking for Wikimedians as well as free knowledge enthusiasts, 
developers, designers and activists from outside the Wikimedia movement. UNLOCK 
2022 has a geographical focus on Western Balkans and German-speaking regions.

== Additional information and support ==

Please head over to the UNLOCK program page for details 
.

If you require further assistance with your application or if you have an idea 
but are not sure whether or not to apply, feel free to reach out to the 
organizing team behind the program via email: 
unl...@wikimedia.de

All the best

Kannika (WMDE) and Ivana (WMRS)

--

Kannika Thaimai (she/her)
Innovation Engine Strategy Lead
WMDE innovation engine 
strategy
 | UNLOCK Accelerator
LinkedIn | 
Twitter

Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Phone: +49 30 577 11 62 0

Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

It would be great to have a place where we can discuss and create projects 
together. Only if we had something like Meta...

By the way, I have added the proposal to discuss this ON WIKI where the 
discussion should be happening: on wiki. 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Strategy/Forum/Proposal

From: Mike Peel 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:35 AM
To: Quim Gil 
Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review


 > There is no on-site privacy policy, it just links to
 > wikimediafoundation.org ?
 >
 > See this pinned topic:
 >
 > User privacy considerations in this forum
 >
https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/user-privacy-considerations-in-this-forum/55


So this does not follow the WMF's privacy policy at:
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Privacy_policy

You didn't answer this.

On 31/5/22 23:25:04, Quim Gil wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:17 AM Mike Peel  > wrote:
>
> This is not a community review - this is an off-wiki discussion.
>
>
> Participation is also welcome here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Strategy/Forum/Proposal
> 

Every single link under "Community review questions" goes to your new
website. You state that "The Movement Strategy Forum is based on
Discourse, a powerful open-source platform for community discussions." .
I thought that's what MediaWiki was?

>
>  > It's a Discourse instance. https://discourse.org
>  >
>  > is an open-source platform specializing in community conversations.
> That's $100/month for a standard subscription. per
> https://www.discourse.org/pricing .
>
>
> This is for those who want to have their site hosted by the Discourse
> maintainers, which is an option we have taken for now. Discourse is free
> software.

So WMF is paying Discourse to hold community discussions that would
normally be held on MediaWiki? Huh?

Thanks,
Mike
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Let's see the "features" Discourse have and MediaWiki don't:


  *   Anyone can join with their Wikimedia account. No registration is required.
  *   This is a feature we already have.

  *   Multilingual conversations are possible thanks to automatic translation 
in more than 100 languages.
  *   How are they doing that? Discourse is open source, isn't it? Could this 
feature be experimentally included at Meta? Are they using the Google Translate 
API?
  *
  *   Newcomers are welcomed with an interactive tutorial and badges for 
achievements.
  *   This can be done in Meta. Even developing a system of easy tutorials and 
gamification would be a great add-on for most wikis. So, if this is something 
really important, we SHOULD be doing for ourselves, and not letting MediaWiki 
abandonware.
  *
  *   Notifications can be adjusted to follow or mute topics, categories, and 
tags.
  *   This can be done with Flow.

  *   Conversations can use easy text formatting, expanded links, images, and 
emojis.
  *   We can do this on wiki. Even the emojis thing.

  *   Complex conversations can be summarized by their participants, also split 
or merged.
  *   We can do this on wiki. We have been doing this for ages.

  *   Posts can be flagged anonymously for moderation. Community moderators 
ensure that the Universal Code of Conduct is observed.
  *   We can do this on wiki. Also, the Community moderators ensuring that the 
UCoC is observed should be working on how to do that on... check notes... Meta.

  *   All features are available on mobile and desktop browsers.
  *   Also on wiki. If something is missing on mobile, then, we should invest 
all the necessary to get it. Not doing that only makes our platform more 
obsolete.
  *
  *   Congratulate newcomers each time they publish a post.
  *   This is a feature already available at Wiki. We can also congratulate by 
hand if wanted.

Is Discourse better? I don't know. Abandoning our own software because we have 
found that others are doing things better? A total error.

I have said this before, but we have plenty of money. We are swimming in a 
giant money pool. Our software is obsolete, and every move we make away of it, 
makes it even more obsolete, despite having the money to solve it.

Thanks

Galder


From: Quim Gil 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:09 AM
To: Mike Peel 
Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

Hi again,

The proposal for a new forum comes with a problem 
statement,
 a list of main features aimed to address this problem, and a set of questions 
to help everyone find points of tangible discussion and hopefully agreement.

Today, "use a wiki" or "we have Meta" alone doesn't solve the problem. The 
discrimination suffered by volunteers not fluent in English is real. The 
intimidation and alienation felt by many volunteers and many groups that are 
underrepresented in our movement or marginalized in our societies is real. And 
simply, the difficulty to have multiple simultaneous complex discussions in a 
structured and enjoyable way is very real.

We are not claiming that this forum can solve all these problems in one strike. 
However, we firmly believe that this forum presents a better alternative here 
and now for everyone interested in the Movement Strategy implementation. 
Clearly a better alternative for those who are in practice excluded or gone 
from traditional on-wiki conversations. But also to everyone else (expert wiki 
editors included) who wants to get things done in a context where diversity, 
equity, inclusion, efficient use of time, and fun are naturally expected.

Many people have responded to this problem with their feet. Wikimedia 
cross-project connections and conversations have been trending towards "social 
media" platforms for years. Today they are all scattered and still growing. And 
well, many years before social media, mailing lists like this one were created 
"off-wiki" for a reason.

This forum proposes the creation of a platform fully functional today, to host 
the conversations and collaboration needed to implement the Movement Strategy. 
We can offer a platform as easy to use as the popular tools people are using 
daily to connect and discuss. We can offer features none of these commercial 
platforms offer today like automatic translation, better organization of 
complex conversations, better search and memory, and a much better alignment 
with the Wikimedia values. All this is available today, one Wikimedia login 
click away. For you to review.

Keeping Meta updated including possibilities for participation is perfectly 
possible. One of the 
questions

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Since 2018 (!!) there's an Extension that allows translation using the Google 
Translate API (the same Discourse is using). 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Google_Translator

You can test it here, for example: 
https://karaoke.kjams.com/wiki/System_Requirements

It took me literally 5 minutes to figure out that this exists. So, the one and 
only feature where Discourse may be better positioned than Meta to discuss 
about Wikimedia, can also be done perfectly with this extension.

Thanks

Galder

From: Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:01 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

Let's see the "features" Discourse have and MediaWiki don't:


  *   Anyone can join with their Wikimedia account. No registration is required.
  *   This is a feature we already have.

  *   Multilingual conversations are possible thanks to automatic translation 
in more than 100 languages.
  *   How are they doing that? Discourse is open source, isn't it? Could this 
feature be experimentally included at Meta? Are they using the Google Translate 
API?
  *
  *   Newcomers are welcomed with an interactive tutorial and badges for 
achievements.
  *   This can be done in Meta. Even developing a system of easy tutorials and 
gamification would be a great add-on for most wikis. So, if this is something 
really important, we SHOULD be doing for ourselves, and not letting MediaWiki 
abandonware.
  *
  *   Notifications can be adjusted to follow or mute topics, categories, and 
tags.
  *   This can be done with Flow.

  *   Conversations can use easy text formatting, expanded links, images, and 
emojis.
  *   We can do this on wiki. Even the emojis thing.

  *   Complex conversations can be summarized by their participants, also split 
or merged.
  *   We can do this on wiki. We have been doing this for ages.

  *   Posts can be flagged anonymously for moderation. Community moderators 
ensure that the Universal Code of Conduct is observed.
  *   We can do this on wiki. Also, the Community moderators ensuring that the 
UCoC is observed should be working on how to do that on... check notes... Meta.

  *   All features are available on mobile and desktop browsers.
  *   Also on wiki. If something is missing on mobile, then, we should invest 
all the necessary to get it. Not doing that only makes our platform more 
obsolete.
  *
  *   Congratulate newcomers each time they publish a post.
  *   This is a feature already available at Wiki. We can also congratulate by 
hand if wanted.

Is Discourse better? I don't know. Abandoning our own software because we have 
found that others are doing things better? A total error.

I have said this before, but we have plenty of money. We are swimming in a 
giant money pool. Our software is obsolete, and every move we make away of it, 
makes it even more obsolete, despite having the money to solve it.

Thanks

Galder


From: Quim Gil 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 11:09 AM
To: Mike Peel 
Cc: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

Hi again,

The proposal for a new forum comes with a problem 
statement<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Strategy/Forum/Proposal#Why_a_Movement_Strategy_Forum>,
 a list of main features aimed to address this problem, and a set of questions 
to help everyone find points of tangible discussion and hopefully agreement.

Today, "use a wiki" or "we have Meta" alone doesn't solve the problem. The 
discrimination suffered by volunteers not fluent in English is real. The 
intimidation and alienation felt by many volunteers and many groups that are 
underrepresented in our movement or marginalized in our societies is real. And 
simply, the difficulty to have multiple simultaneous complex discussions in a 
structured and enjoyable way is very real.

We are not claiming that this forum can solve all these problems in one strike. 
However, we firmly believe that this forum presents a better alternative here 
and now for everyone interested in the Movement Strategy implementation. 
Clearly a better alternative for those who are in practice excluded or gone 
from traditional on-wiki conversations. But also to everyone else (expert wiki 
editors included) who wants to get things done in a context where diversity, 
equity, inclusion, efficient use of time, and fun are naturally expected.

Many people have responded to this problem with their feet. Wikimedia 
cross-project connections and conversations have been trending towards "social 
media" platforms for years. Today they are all scattered and still growing. And 
well, many years before social media, mailing lists like this one were created 
"off-wiki" for a reason.

This forum proposes the creation of a platform fu

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

No single feature in this off-wiki experiment created in order to make MediaWiki more obsolete cab't be achieved at Meta now. No one. If there's something that should be included in Meta and Discourse has, then I would like to remember that we have more than 100 million USD in a giant money pool that should be used to make our future sustainable.Please, stop this project and invest in our software.Galder2022(e)ko eka. 11(a) 23:09 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Mike Peel ):On 11/6/22 05:10:51, Quim Gil wrote:
> For context, the same email gives an option to candidates to answer the 
> questions via email. In this case, the election organizers will post the 
> answers in the forum on their behalf.

Answering by email isn't a great solution. I'm hoping to be able to 
reply on-wiki, which is the normal way of answering questions during 
Wikimedia elections. However, since the forum doesn't seem to specify 
copyright, I don't think CC-BY-SA responses on-wiki can be shared on the 
forum.

> This is the only point of the election process where this forum is being 
> used. It allows affiliates to propose and prioritize their questions 
> quickly, and it allows to open the candidate replies to the public at 
> the same time, automatically translated to the preference to each 
> reader. Candidates can reply via email if they prefer. If a candidate 
> doesn't want to use the forum, they don't have to.

It's good to hear that it won't be used more than that. It shouldn't 
even be used for this, though.

> More context. This election process also includes an option for voters 
> to use a voting advice tool that is off-wiki as well. This tool was used 
> in the last MCDC election and received wide support and positive 
> feedback. None of the candidates had any objections, and there were +70. 
> Here too the candidates don't have to use this tool directly if they 
> don't want to.

So because no-one objected before, my objections are clearly unreasonable?

> These specialized tools are easy to use and they provide a benefit to 
> users that right now we cannot replicate with wiki pages alone.

There is nothing on these forums that can't be replicated on-wiki, as 
has been thoroughly demonstrated in this thread.

This is Wikimedia. Please keep things on-wiki.

Thanks,
Mike
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Ceill,
I am a big fan of having 'one front door' for people that are trying to find 
answers to questions. Having the front door in another building, with another 
technology, and once they are in we say them that our building is the other 
one, the one that is falling down (but don't visit the basement, please, is 
full of money) is the worst of the strategies.

Best,
Galder

From: Ciell Wikipedia 
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2022 6:03 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

Hi,

First: I am a big fan of having 'one front door' for people that are trying to 
find answers to questions they do not know where to ask (last year's movement 
communications insights on 
this).
 I think a forum, actively moderated by people helping and pointing users to 
the right places, would be a huge improvement for community questions and 
input. Especially the one-click translation service is imho a big plus in 
service in comparison to Meta.

It does however worry me that when I joined the forum last weekend to take a 
peek, I stumbled on a thread with a very specific question about Commons and 
giving permission via VRT. The thread had multiple replies, but no one had a 
real substantial answer. Well, replies were along the lines of 'No, there is no 
template for this' and 'This should be discussed on Commons'. While the answers 
were somewhat correct, they were obviously not helpful for the person asking 
this specific question and, as far as I could tell, none of the respondents 
were a member of our VRT teams. So this user was effectively not helped by 
posting the question on the forum.
Even more so, because the question on the forum was not noticed by VRT agents 
(most of us working on the permissions queues and Commons will have the 
/Noticeboard on Commons on our watch list and can be pinged if country or 
language specific knowledge or advise is needed for a question), and secondly 
it will be more difficult for the people working from our end that will have to 
follow up if the person does decide to bring the question to Commons or VRT 
after all.

Besides that, with my MCDC hat on, I hope after this trial period we'll get to 
see the data on how many people interacted about the Movement Strategy that we 
have not heard from in the previous 5 years through any of the other platforms 
that are in use to gather feedback. Already trying to watch several channels 
with Strategy discussions, I count on the MSG team to bring back these numbers 
and a summary of what is being discussed on the forum back to Meta. Even in a 
virtual world there is a limit on how many channels a Wikimedian can watch.

NB: I see Sj's response crossed mine while I was writing, but let my example 
underline the issue of 'no unified notifications' and a possible problem with 
'coherent archiving'.
Please also be aware G-translate does not know all languages we have projects 
in, some of which are however supported by Yandex that is an option to choose 
for the Wikipedia article translation tool already.

Best,
Ciell

Op zo 12 jun. 2022 11:34 schreef Quim Gil 
mailto:q...@wikimedia.org>>:
Hi Mike,

Yes, on-wiki replies are fine and the organizers of the election will contact 
you to clarify the details.

We will find a fix to the problem of the content license on the forum. Thank 
you for pointing this out.

About features, this is what the election organizers want to try out:

* Let affiliates propose and select their questions by themselves. This is why 
we are providing a private space for affiliate representatives to propose 
questions and vote for them.

* Give all candidates three days to writel their replies before they can be 
read by anyone. This allows all candidates to organize their time to respond, 
not taxing as much those who have less free time or less flexible schedules. 
This is why we give access to candidates to this private space at the same 
time, when the questions are ready, and then make this space public at the date 
announced.

* Give everyone more time to read the candidates' answers in their preferred 
languages, using automatic translation. We want to reduce the gap that 
non-English speakers have to endure when texts are only available in English, 
and when translations take extra days to arrive, if they arrive for their 
language at all. This is another reason to use the forum.


On Sat, Jun 11, 2022, 11:09 PM Mike Peel 
mailto:em...@mikepeel.net>> wrote:
On 11/6/22 05:10:51, Quim Gil wrote:
> For context, the same email gives an option to candidates to answer the
> questions via email. In this case, the election organizers will post the
> answers in the forum on their behalf.

Answering by email isn't a great solution. I'm hoping to be able to
reply on-wiki, which is the normal way of answering questions during
Wikimedia elections.

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Nathan,
I want to raise a point here. You say that "That's a reasonable pursuit for 
Quim, for instance, whose scope is managing the movement strategy process - not 
shepherding MediaWiki development strategy." and I must disagree. If Quim's (or 
whoever, this is not a complaint against Quim, of course) scope is managing the 
movement strategy process and he thinks that we need better tools for doing 
that, and those tools are out of his and the team's scope, then the problem is 
in the management. Who should Quim or his team reach out to ask for investment 
on those tools? Who is accountable for the decision? Is there someone in this 
process who should take the decision to invest in better discussion tools for 
MediaWiki (not only Meta)? If there's someone, and is not the team who has 
decided to abandon Meta, then that person should tell us why they decided not 
to invest money on making MediaWiki a better software for discussion. It 
there's no one, then we should ask why such kind of decisions can be taken 
without any accountability.

I'm going to give an example. Imagine that my kitchen is broken and I can't 
prepare my meals there. I have budget to solve it, but instead of that I decide 
that eating every day in a restaurant will be easier than paying someone to fix 
my kitchen. Indeed, I will eat good quality food every day, and I don't need to 
clean the kitchen after using it. As long as I have money, I can do this every 
day. But my kitchen is still broken, and it would be wise to fix it. Maybe I 
need to eat out for a week or so, but not solving something I need while I have 
money to do that, is not the wisest decision I can take.

That said, yes, sure, Meta is not the best place to make a discussion. Commons 
is not the best place to upload a photo. But it's WMF's responsibility to solve 
that, that's why millions of people are donating every year. Not to pay a team 
who is deciding to abandon MediaWiki because other platforms are doing better.

Sincerely,

Galder

From: Nathan 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 2:51 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review



On Mon, Jun 13, 2022 at 6:05 AM Yaroslav Blanter 
mailto:ymb...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear All,

I thought I would just let it go, but I do not think the discussion currently 
runs in a good direction.

I do not think it is useful to advocate that Meta is a good discussion 
platform. It is not. It is dead. At best, there are some announcements posted 
there, and there is a small group of people who monitor and comment on them. If 
there is something really outrageous going on, such as the recent rebranding 
attempt, users can be mobilized from the projects to leave their opinion. This 
is done by the project users who care, it is done inside the projects or using 
some extra-Wikimedia means, and it can only happen occasionally. If this does 
not happen, Meta discussions attract at best a dozen commenters, some of whom 
are just negative towards everything.

We tried to do something about this for at least 15 years (I myself was around 
and have been an active Meta user since 2007-2008). Things are not getting 
better, they are getting worse.

These are great points, thank you Yaroslav. The tone of this discussion is 
painful to read; angry and argumentative, even rude. But that's likely a 
function of your last point - things are not getting better, they are getting 
worse. Yes, Meta is an ugly and dysfunctional place to hold a discussion with 
many people. That reality leads WMF teams to search for alternatives that work 
better to achieve specific, discrete goals. That's a reasonable pursuit for 
Quim, for instance, whose scope is managing the movement strategy process - not 
shepherding MediaWiki development strategy.

Complaints are better directed at the ED and board - why, after all this time, 
and spending hundreds of millions of dollars on [something] and raising 
hundreds more, does MediaWiki feel frozen in 2008? Why are discussions so often 
held on other platforms? If this is a desirable outcome (e.g. a decision has 
been made that WMF can't replicate the ease of use and modernity of other 
platforms, which are continually innovating, and we made a decision not to 
chase Discord and IG and TikTok etc.) then maybe that's ok - if it is 
articulated somewhere that people can see when they are frustrated with why 
everything can't take place "on-wiki."
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Join the new Movement Strategy Forum community review

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Wait, wait... what?

With a Movement Strategy landing place that is newcomer friendly and 
multilingual, we can also tackle a historical problem of the Movement Strategy 
process: outreach to volunteers in all the wiki projects. We can also invite 
our partners in the ecosystem of free knowledge and offer them cozy and 
well-equipped rooms to work together.

So, this is not a forum, but a "landing place"? How did it change from a forum 
to discuss the strategy to a "landing place". And why is the "landing place" 
outside of the ecosystem that is discussed? Why is not Meta the landing place 
anymore. Is there or have there been any rejected plan to implement Meta as a 
landing place? And if not, why hasn't it been discussed if this was one of the 
outcomes from most of the discussions done in the (now called ) Wikimedia 
Summit in Berlin (you can check the minutes).

The second part is quite strange: isn't it MediaWiki multilingual? You can 
translate things; you can even use the ContentTranslation (and soon the great 
SectionTranslation). We have technology for automatic translation of paragraphs 
into lots of languages (more than those at Google Translate) and we can even 
use our own community to make those translation forever, and not automatic. 
Where was it decided that "multilingual" equals "Google" and where can I read 
how much does it cost to adapt our own tools to our own ecosystem to make 
"multilingual" discussion happen?

I also read with perplexity that an external forum is giving volunteers in all 
the wiki projects a place for outreach. This may be a good salesperson point 
when trying to sell a product, but this has been done with Meta (and other 
projects) without any integration problem. Is something that is built in the 
core of our technology. If there's something missing there: why hasn't it been 
solved in the last 5 years of discussion? Did we notice now that we can have an 
external system to out(???)reach our own volunteers? I can't continue reading 
this without a real sense of strangeness.

And the last sentence is the best part: inviting partners to discuss about my 
home, in another home that is better equipped. We surely will drive our 
partners in the free knowledge ecosystem to donate more time, resources and 
even money to Discourse, that is what we are showing. This message is proposing 
exactly to drive out of our ecosystem to those that we need more, telling them 
that our place is not worthy. How did the Communications Team allow something 
like this? Or didn't they know? Furthermore, this idea is contradicting with 
the Wikimedia Strategy itself. The Wikimedia Movement 2018-2020 strategy says 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20):

By 2030, Wikimedia will become the essential infrastructure of the ecosystem of 
free knowledge, and anyone who shares our vision will be able to join us.

And then we can read these extracts from the the Improve User Experience 
section 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Improve_User_Experience):

Improving the experience of 
users
 on our platforms will allow more people to join projects, access information, 
and contribute. This is a shared responsibility between developers, designers, 
and 
communities
 and requires collective action throughout the Wikimedia ecosystem.
(...) * Spaces that allow finding peers with specific interests, roles, and 
objectives along with communication channels to interact, collaborate and 
mentor
 each other.
(...) * Tools to connect cross-project and cross-language functionalities to 
provide an enhanced experience of the knowledge contained in the Wikimedia 
ecosystem for a particular interest, informational need, or inquiry.

We can also read the recommendations at Ensure Equity in Decision-Making 
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Ensure_Equity_in_Decision-making):

  *   Maintaining safe collaborative environments.

How is that in 2022 (2 years after this discussion was closed and 5 years after 
it started) we are doing just the opposite of what the Movement decided to do? 
How is that we spent years of discussion, volunteer's time and resources 
discussing something and the forum to continue discussing about it goes against 
all of the decided?

Sincerely, it would be great to discuss these things seriously, because we are 
already volunteering here, no one needs to buy another hair-growing formula.

Hoping that we can talk about what we need, and not what we have,
Galder

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Inc. design staff

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Or, maybe, just making Wikimedia a non-obsolete environment. I'm sure the money 
can go to that effort.

From: Felipe Schenone 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 12:51 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimedia Foundation Inc. design staff

I agree with the diagnosis, but maybe not with the solution. If Wikimedia is 
getting "overfunding" and doesn't quite know what to so with it, there's 
probably plenty of good things to do. We could start a community process to 
decide it, because as you say, reducing funding efforts or saving indefinitely 
for the future isn't likely to happen or even desirable, considering the 
alternatives.

Here are some ideas:

* Investing in clean energy sources for Wikimedia servers.
* Funding of external developers and libraries on which MediaWiki depends.
* Funding of open knowledge projects beyond Wikimedia, to not stray too far the 
original intentions of donors and volunteers.
* Funding of other non-knowledge altruistic projects (like buying land for a 
natural reserve). I'm sure the funding team could rethink and generalize the 
campaign to justify this use for future donations.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 4:47 AM mailto:tim.h...@gmx.de>> wrote:
The question of you is important. The Wikimedia Foundation hired a lot of 
people in the last years and I do not see so big change in the output. It is a 
question that is from my point of view relevant for different areas at the 
Wikimedia Foundation. I dont support a too big focus on efficiency that needs a 
lot of metrics to measure and to create these metrics needs then a lot of 
staff. What is needed and what not is not easy to measure. With increasing 
available resources the staff will probably increase. This is an usual 
behaviour of humans that they try to use resources if available and do not only 
allocate them for the future or say no and try to reduce the needed resources 
if not neccessary. From my point of view the Wikimedia Foundation should reduce 
the Fundraising acitivities and try to reduce in the next years the yearly 
expenses or pay at least attention that they do not increase further. The 
salaries at the Wikimedia Foundation are currently from my point of view in 
relation to Germany based NGOs high. I think interesting documents to get an 
overview about the work of the Wikimedia Foundation are the quaterly tuning 
sessions.  
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Foundation_tuning_sessions,_FY2021-22

Hogü-456
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: what do we do with all this opportunity?

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Samuel and James for the constructive approach in your messages.

I know that I have said this before, but there's a huge problem with 
accountability here. We have money to become a great platform and we have staff 
to do it, but there's no way to go forward, and that problem is seen clearly at 
every opportunity: migrating to Discourse because we don't have "good enough" 
discussing software, not having centralized templates or the completely broken 
wishlist survey (where only 1/4 of the projects voted by the community are 
done, and some of them in a sub-optimal and non-usable way).

James points out the integration of data from OurWorldInData. This is so 
impressive and useful that is hard to think how the WMF can't afford to expend 
staff time (or give 1.000 USD to someone) to do that. Instead, Wiki Project Med 
has to ask for it outside. The Basque Wikimedians User Group is funding this 
effort, and is doing it with its own funds. Do you know how we get these funds? 
Well, sometimes they call us for a lecture somewhere about free knowledge, 
copyright or whatever, and the money they usually give the speaker goes to a 
fund. Whenever we have a good amount of money there (like 1.000USD), we invest 
in free knowledge projects. So, at the end of the day, is volunteer's time, 
expressed as money, and re-invested in things that will make our experience 
better. Of course, we are happy to help with this project, but the question is 
why the WMF, with 400.000.000 USD a year, can't afford to do this. And the 
answer is that no one cares, and those who should care about that are not 
accountable.

Indeed, there's quite a big group of workers thinking in design, and they work 
to do some things, like the new Vector (but not only, they have a bunch of 
projects open). But every time they get a critic about the approach by a 
volunteer, there's an attack to the volunteer. Let's take some examples: here's 
a Phab ticket (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T293405) with a proposal to 
build a Main Page that will easily be copied by every project. You can read the 
answers and the attitude towards the proposal. Or this one, when they decided 
to move the interwiki links to the bottom of the main page because they didn't 
think that Main Pages where relevant 
(https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T290480). Or here, when a bug report is 
closed because someone thinks that breaking things is not a bug: 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T289212.

And I could continue, but the reality shows us that sub-optimal solutions are 
our way of finishing projects. The same teams that are moving things around in 
the Vector-2022, for example, decided to break the PDF creator (still has many 
issues) and decided that creating books wasn't relevant, so they broke it on 
purpose. No one cares, and if you do, you shouldn't: no one is going to fix it. 
No accountability. The same team has decided that hiding our sister projects 
from the main page, something that goes against the Strategic Direction, is a 
good idea at all (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T287609). And there we are, 
some volunteers, trying to make any sense of all of this, and trying to point 
that the Strategic Direction is something that should be granted at every 
decision. But, again, if there's no accountability, then every team will make 
what they think is better, they won't accept any proposal from volunteers, and 
our years-long strategy discussions will be a completely loss of time and 
donor's money, because no one is implementing what it was decided there.

Things are broken, and we could still be here discussing about that for ages. 
We have money and staff to fix this. Who is going to fix it? This is the great 
question.

Sincerely,

Galder



From: Samuel Klein 
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 1:42 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: what do we do with all this opportunity?

James! Thanks for this case in point.

The free knowledge ecosystem includes hundreds of  thousands of devs around the 
world. Most don't think to collaborate with us or through our codebases, most 
who do bounce off of current systems, and those who stay still have a hard time 
getting code reviewed or fit into a roadmap, or small grants.

But W also have more genuine, unqualified goodwill than any technical project I 
know.  Few doors for technical collaboration or future-creation would be closed 
if we only learn how to ask and welcome the result.

So instead of asking "which tools should we try to test + implement, if we can 
figure out how to configure it" or "which of these independent proposals seems 
worthy of a one-time grant" (like any startup or website or grantor out there, 
limited by the time of the few people setting it up), we should Be Bolder.
Sketch in broad strokes what we need and want to see, commit to working 
together to make it so, look for partners who want to collaborate with us in 
making the best ec

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

😄
And when you see 9-years-old learning how to add links 
(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urdiaingo_Herri_Eskolan_Txikipedia_saioa_02.jpg)
 to the article they have created 
(https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Txikipedia:Urbasa)... it's all joy! And if you 
learn they have visited a cave with the school and documented it to improve the 
article, then... 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Urdiaingo_ikasleak_Urkoban.jpg





From: Samuel Klein 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 2:24 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

Reminded today of how beautifully this kids encyclopedia has worked out:
Txikipedia:Azala (main page),  
Txikipedia:Gengis_Khan 

More languages should try that.   a) simple skin hack, b) loving and lovely 
idea, c) more compelling to me than the standalone kidipedia projects :)   
Anyway, thanks for improving my weekend, Txikipedians.   SJ

(posting to wm-l since wp-l is gone now...)

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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

>From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra 
>step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you are 
>underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find 
>adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at 
>Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended for 
>that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so 
>providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction 
>says) is better that not providing at all.

If you want to know more about Txikipedia, contact us, please.

Galder

From: Neurodivergent Netizen 
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 2:59 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project 
is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could 
potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very 
aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are 
involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to continue 
editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not worth the extra effort.  
This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of 
people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and identity 
verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids 
editing the existing projects.

I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly.

From,
I dream of horses
She/her

On Jun 21, 2022, at 1:53 PM, Mathias Damour 
mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>> wrote:

Hi Ziko, Samuel and everybody,

De: "Ziko van Dijk" mailto:zvand...@gmail.com>>
Hello Samuel,

Thank you for your mail. I would like to see more attention from the Wikimedia 
movement for the target group children age ca. 8-14.

I am afraid there is no real comprehensive study about the best way to provide 
encyclopedic wiki content to children, or even to involve them in the content 
creation.

In general, children are a very special and vulnerable group. This can become 
problematic when they are directly involved on a platform, and when it comes to 
the content itself.

And yet it works well with Vikidia, which has been active for more than 15 
years, writing an average of 6 articles par day since the beginning !
There is some blog posts that elaborate how it works, what it implies and what 
it means to let a multi-age community work together, unfortunatly only in 
french (except one in english):
https://www.wikimedia.fr/author/astirmays/
My english is certainly not good enought to translate them properly, yet I 
would be glad to get some help to do so or to find a way to get them translated 
(anybody tell me if you wish to help translating 2 or 3 of theses posts !)
One also reviews some of the commons objections to such a project and how we 
adress them.

Samuel Klein mailto:meta...@gmail.com>> schrieb am Mo. 20. 
Juni 2022 um 02:25:

More languages should try that.   a) simple skin hack, b) loving and lovely 
idea, c) more compelling to me than the standalone kidipedia projects :)   
Anyway, thanks for improving my weekend, Txikipedians.   SJ

Actually when you have a "standalone kidipedia project", it has the great 
benefit to allow to have its own community, and not to be marginalized inside a 
much bigger project. Both young readers and young editors love it. I guess that 
the choice may depend on the size of the "mother" Wikipedia and the potential 
community to gather on this project.

Mathias Damour
[[User:Astirmays]]
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

ciation with the more well-known Wikipedia.

> The document is not really public yet. :-)

I think I can wait until it’s public and proofread. :-)

From,
I dream of horses
She/her





> On Jun 22, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Ziko van Dijk 
> mailto:zvand...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> At the moment I am working on a document that extensively explains how
> we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a
> private message. The document is not really public yet. :-)
> Kind regards
> Ziko
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon
>
> Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
> mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" 
>> mailto:idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>>
>> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia 
>> project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere 
>> that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that 
>> America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks 
>> when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids 
>> are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not 
>> worth the extra effort.  This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff 
>> so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the 
>> background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are 
>> obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects.
>>
>> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite 
>> quickly.
>>
>> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet 
>> the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and 
>> moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the 
>> potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would 
>> also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is 
>> taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform 
>> themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the 
>> Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries).
>> We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
>>
>> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the 
>> risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and 
>> unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very 
>> few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
>>
>> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people 
>> for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this 
>> blog post :
>> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation
>> https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/
>> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their 
>> closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if 
>> a wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators 
>> either to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the 
>> community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki 
>> encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
>>
>> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages :
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>>
>> Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37
>> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" 
>> mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>>
>> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" 
>> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
>> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra 
>> step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you 
>> are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can 
>> find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters 
>> at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended 
>> for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so 
>> providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction 
>> says) is better that not providing at all.
>>
>> I can only agree!
>>
>>
>> Mathias Damour
>> [[User:Astirmays]]
>> ___

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

ia could fit to children. The "reading level" of articles 
on Vikidia is not perfectly homogenous, nor their developpment is. They can be 
usefull for adult beginners on a subject just as a child can prefer Wikipedia 
on a subject he's fond of and allready informed.
That was developped in this post (in english):
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids/Documentation_and_Vikidia


De: "Ziko van Dijk" <mailto:zvand...@gmail.com>
Ideally, one would have
* an encyclopedia for the very young, that parents read to them,
* an encyclopedia for the 8 to 13 year olds, the target group for many
of the existing kids' wikis,
* an encyclopedia for juvelines, 14 to 18 years
* an encyclopedia for everyone; this is what "regular Wikipedia" should be,
* an encyclopedia for specialists; this is what "regular Wikipedia"
actually develops into.
And maybe encylopedias for people with specific challenges such as
dyslexia.

Most language don't have a single wiki encyclopedia for children or an 
under-developped one. So I guess that's not realistic nor wise to wish such a 
division in this work. So let's work on the allready allready launched ones ! 
(Especially the one of the Vikidia family of course ;) see 
https://www.vikidia.org/ )

You actually do not need millions of articles for a good encyclopedia, some 
thousand well written articles are enough.

Vikidia in French and Wikikids in Dutch are by far the biggest wiki 
encyclopedias for children, with about 35000 articles each. Yet young reader on 
the Vikidia's guestbook still ask for "more content", which certainly mean both 
enought developped articles (not just a few lines) and more subjects. So yes, 
we need, if not millions of articles, at least several dozens of thousands 
articles.
Of course, we see that (as everywhere) 20 % of the articles make more than 80 % 
of the pageviews. But you can't really guess in advance which subject will be 
in the top 20 %.

 De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>>
About Txikipedia: the age range is 8-12, but is more 10-12 than 8-9. The 
problem is that some of the writers are 8-9 years old, so their content is 
quite simple.

(...)

When I read French Vikidia I think that most of the contents are still too 
difficult for 8-9 years old students, but French education system maybe more 
advanced in some issues. Or it might be that Vikidia is centered in 8-13 years 
old, and 13 years old readers are way better reading and understanding texts. 
Klexikon seems very suitable, but it's logical, since it is written by 
educators, and not children or whoever wants to write. When we make courses 
with university students who will be the next primary school teachers, they 
write longer articles, but not necessarily better. The main goal there is to 
explain things as easily as possible, and not granting anything for known. We 
advise them to write shorter sentences, without dependencies and to explain all 
technical concepts inline, if possible. Also, they normally add boxes of "did 
you know?" so they can add a layer for curious children.

Just as on Wikipedia, article don't have only one author. That makes them 
better, more accessible and accurate.

You can't just test an average child to write on such a wiki to tell if 
children and teenagers are able to participate to a wiki encyclopedia for 
several reasons :

  *   the 1% rule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule) fully apply there 
(or less than 1%)
  *   regular editors are few but very motivated,
  *   they typically learn and are engaged for months and years, which is VERY 
different than having been trained to edit for one or two hours.

A 12 yo with 2 years of participation, or a 15 yo with 3 years of experience 
are often very valuables editors, either as writer of for maintenance and 
community tasks.

Adults as well have to learn to write on Vikidia, be they educators or not. 
Just as it is well know that a journalist or a scientist, which are supposed to 
be skilled is writing articles, often don't fit immediatly with the style that 
is expected on Wikipedia.

Mathias Damour
[[User:Astirmays]]
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

that extensively explains how
> we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a
> private message. The document is not really public yet. :-)
> Kind regards
> Ziko
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon
>
> Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
> mailto:mathias.dam...@gmx.fr>>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" 
>> mailto:idoh.idreamofhor...@gmail.com>>
>> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia 
>> project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere 
>> that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that 
>> America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks 
>> when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids 
>> are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not 
>> worth the extra effort.  This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff 
>> so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the 
>> background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are 
>> obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects.
>>
>> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite 
>> quickly.
>>
>> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet 
>> the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and 
>> moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the 
>> potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would 
>> also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is 
>> taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform 
>> themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the 
>> Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries).
>> We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
>>
>> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the 
>> risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and 
>> unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very 
>> few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
>>
>> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people 
>> for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this 
>> blog post :
>> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation
>> https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/
>> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their 
>> closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if 
>> a wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators 
>> either to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the 
>> community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki 
>> encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
>>
>> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages :
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>>
>> Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37
>> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" 
>> mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>>
>> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" 
>> mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>>
>> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
>> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra 
>> step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you 
>> are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can 
>> find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters 
>> at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended 
>> for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so 
>> providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction 
>> says) is better that not providing at all.
>>
>> I can only agree!
>>
>>
>> Mathias Damour
>> [[User:Astirmays]]
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- 
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>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
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>> Public archives at 
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hype

[Wikimedia-l] @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Good day,
Yesterday, the James Webb telescope published its first image, called "Webb's 
Frist Deep Field" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webb%27s_First_Deep_Field). An 
article about the image existis in 14 languages. The tweet announcing it has 
collected in less than a day more than 77.000 RTs and 275.000 likes 
(https://twitter.com/NASAWebb/status/1546621080298835970). The main object of 
the image didn't have any article at any Wikipedia (not an item at Wikidata) 
yesterday. Now we have an article in 8 languages: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMACS_J0723.3-7327 and a category in Commons.

Well, the Wikipedia twitter handle didn't tweet anything about this 
achievement, and didn't give any contest to the image. 
(https://twitter.com/wikipedia).

We could be answering questions. "By 2030, Wikimedia will become the essential 
infrastructure of the ecosystem of free knowledge". We could be centering free 
knowledge at Wikimedia.

Best,
Galder
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks for the answer, Lauren.

I have been looking at the stats of the last 4 weeks in Twitter, Facebook and 
Instagram, to make an idea of the activity those accounts have. I don't know 
how many people takes part in the process, but as I read "We" in the answer, 
I'm going to assume that is more than one person to do all of this job.

In Twitter, before my e-mail (after that there was a tweet by Wikimedia Chile 
that was mentioned by @Wikipedia), the last tweet was two days before. From 
June 10th to July 10th 34 tweets were done, 5 of them about the concept "tea". 
That makes roughly one tweet a day, but there have been many days without any 
tweet activity. In Facebook I count 24 posts related to Wikipedia. This is 0,77 
posts per day. In Instagram the situation is worse, only 9 posts in one month, 
is to say, one every 3 days. It could be that June 10th to July 10th is a bad 
moment, but I have looked up previous months, and the trend is the same: most 
of the days is 1 tweet, there are some days with 0 activity, and some other 
days with 3-4 tweets, usually about the same topic.

I don't know how long it takes to do that, but based on my experience managing 
social media, this activity (a tweet a day, 0,7 posts in Facebook a day and 0,3 
posts in Instagram, that actually are about the same topic) takes around 30 
minutes per day, a little bit longer if I need to take extra-extra care to 
choose the article. I don't know how many workers are in this process, but I 
assume that the "we" means than is more than one.

Let me help with this, because there are many processes that can booster the 
activity and make our engagement in social media better. In the French 
Wikipedia they have a page where people can propose tweets about curious things 
(https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Aide_et_accueil/Twitter/Tweets). These 
tweets are shared with the hashtag #WPLSV. 
Viquipedia is another success story, with a 
great engagement (far better than the @Wikipedia account, by the way).

In the Basque Wikipedia account (https://twitter.com/euwikipedia) we have an 
internal shared spreadsheet where we put in the columns the days and in the 
rows the scheduled time for the tweet. Every day (yes, we have only one time 
zone, what makes things easier) we try to open with two "on this day". This is 
extra easy, because you only need to look to the article about the day and 
choose some that may be interesting or round numbers (100 years ago today...). 
Then we try to tweet every day something about science, then social sciences or 
history, a building, a fiction or artwork and we end the day with a third "on 
this day" that may be more curious. We have two extra time sections reserved 
for news about Wikipedia itself (statistics, wikiprojects, featured content...) 
and something related to news of the day/current events. We also tweet about 
sex whenever we have new content every Friday at 23:59. This makes around 8 
tweets a day, with some extra options if we have something extra to tell, or 
there is an important recent death, etc... Is true that we are not posting in 
Facebook or Instagram, but this is a task we do when we have spare time in our 
regular jobs: we don't have any extra worker to manage them. It takes around 
4-5 hours to make a full schedule for a month (and it would take less in 
English Wikipedia, where there's plenty of content), and then around 8-10 hours 
to schedule the ~250 tweets we make a month.

If you need help to manage the Twitter account, don't hesitate on contacting 
other members of the community. We can help with this.

Sincerely,
Galder




From: Andy Mabbett 
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2022 8:37 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 at 01:23, Samuel Klein  wrote:
>
> +1, not just en:wp. I'd love to see community mods involved in maintaining 
> the core social accounts.

We have a Facebook group (not the ideal venue, but it works for those
of us on that site), "Wikimedia social media hub" [1], for that; but
WMF staff decided to cease their involvement about 18 months ago.


[1] https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikisocialmediahub
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks for the answer, Lauren. I see quite a few interactions with the tweets (despite having more than half a million followers). You say that the engagement is above the industry standard. Is there any data we can use to compare? I'm one of the managers of @euwikipedia and I see we have even more engagement than @wikipedia, so I would like to know which are those industry standards, so we can also measure ourselves.ThanksGalder2022(e)ko uzt. 14(a) 00:56 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson ):Hi again — thanks for these comments! I wanted to add that we very regularly refer to the ITN/DYK sections (and OTD, too) when planning out the content calendar and responding to current news and topics. These are great, natural sources of topic inspiration for the Wikipedia channels. As mentioned, we welcome other ideas for articles / topics to share. I understand that the form may not always be the best way to do this. So, I invite you to share ideas and feedback on Meta-Wiki (we just did a light clean up of the page). I am also a member of the Facebook group (Wikimedia social media hub) that Andy shared; I see most posts, but the form and Meta-Wiki are the best way to reach me. For additional perspective, based on the note from Galder, there are currently two staff, including myself working on digital communications strategy at the Foundation, which includes both the Wikimedia and Wikipedia social accounts, as well as our website and blogs. Across all, we prioritize showing up with a consistent voice and identity, so through association, people understand our work better. Our strategy is global and we try hard to give equal weight to topics that reflect the diversity of our world and movement—keeping track of movement happenings, edit-a-thons, user group initiatives, current events, and trends in places across the world. Rather than focusing on putting out a large quantity of content, our goal with each post is to make people understand the diverse work that the movement does and the diverse range of knowledge that can be discovered on Wikipedia. This fosters understanding with those who may not have deep knowledge of how the movement works and what we stand for, but who may want to join us if they did. In addition to our regular content, we must be constantly vigilant and address potential misunderstandings about our work and projects. We monitor social chatter closely and strive to ensure that our content and replies meet the standards that uphold movement values. We track the metrics and impact of our social media efforts and find that our strategy is working well. For example, over the last year, we saw a 7% increase in Wikipedia's Twitter following and a consistent above-average engagement rate when compared to industry standards.Lastly, I'll note that we are planning to discuss our refreshed digital communications strategy with ComCom in the coming months. It includes lessons gleaned over the last two years on how to position community work so that it reaches the right audiences and helps to advance movement goals. One of our focuses is on better amplifying the work of volunteers in the movement, and we are eager to get reactions / ideas on ways we can do this even more. I hope this is all helpful context and information. Thanks again for sharing your ideas and feedback with us. LaurenLauren Dickinson (she/her)Senior Communications ManagerWikimedia FoundationOn Wed, Jul 13, 2022 at 4:24 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:






Thanks for the answer, Lauren.




I have been looking at the stats of the last 4 weeks in Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, to make an idea of the activity those accounts have. I don't know how many people takes part in the process, but as I read "We" in the answer, I'm going to assume that
 is more than one person to do all of this job.




In Twitter, before my e-mail (after that there was a tweet by Wikimedia Chile that was mentioned by @Wikipedia), the last tweet was two days before. From June 10th to July 10th 34 tweets were done, 5 of them about the concept
 "tea". That makes roughly one tweet a day, but there have been many days without any tweet activity. In Facebook I count 24 posts related to Wikipedia. This is 0,77 posts per day. In Instagram the situation is worse, only 9 posts in one month, is to say, one
 every 3 days. It could be that June 10th to July 10th is a bad moment, but I have looked up previous months, and the trend is the same: most of the days is 1 tweet, there are some days with 0 activity, and some other days
 with 3-4 tweets, usually about the same topic. 





I don't know how long it takes to do that, but based on my experience managing social media, this activity (a tweet a day, 0,7 posts in Facebook a day and 0,3 posts in Instagram, that actually are about the same topic) takes around 30 minutes per day, a little
 bit longer if I need to take extra-extra care to 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Lauren, I have followed there, because I think we are measuring two very different things when talking about engagement.Have a good dayGalder 2022(e)ko uzt. 18(a) 19:48 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson ):Hi Galder, I just left a more detailed reply on Meta-Wiki so we can continue the conversation there. In summary, we refer to a few different sources to benchmark our engagement rates on @Wikipedia. According to Rival IQ, the median Twitter engagement rate for brands across all industries is 0.037%; for nonprofits specifically, it is 0.054%. According to Adobe, "most would consider 0.5% to be a good engagement rate for Twitter, with anything above 1% great." @Wikipedia Twitter's engagement rate, according to the dashboard we access when logged-in to the account, over the last 28 day period is 2.7%. In May and June, it was 2.6% and 2.2%, respectively. I hope the resources shared are helpful for your management of @euwikipedia. It's difficult to draw direct comparisons between the @euwikipedia and @wikipedia accounts due to the difference in follower size and our more global focus, as well as the objectives we are prioritizing to support the movement but also build resonance among groups who can help us to push forward our knowledge equity goals. At the same time, a straight comparison—with the understanding that I cannot see the analytics for the @euwikipedia account—reveals more retweets, likes, and comments on the @Wikipedia account. I'd like to better understand however if we are defining engagement differently. Also, an overall higher engagement rate from Twitter's analytics could be a result of the low base effect (comparing two accounts of different sizes).  Please note that I am managing a family commitment this week. I am happy to continue this conversation on Meta-Wiki when I return. Also, Andy, we will follow up this week regarding your questions about the @WiktionaryUsers and @Wiktionary accounts. We do not currently have access but are exploring potential options via Twitter now. Thank you, all, for your comments. LaurenLauren Dickinson (she/her)Senior Communications ManagerWikimedia FoundationOn Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 5:16 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:Thanks for the answer, Lauren. I see quite a few interactions with the tweets (despite having more than half a million followers). You say that the engagement is above the industry standard. Is there any data we can use to compare? I'm one of the managers of @euwikipedia and I see we have even more engagement than @wikipedia, so I would like to know which are those industry standards, so we can also measure ourselves.ThanksGalder2022(e)ko uzt. 14(a) 00:56 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson <ldickin...@wikimedia.org>):Hi again — thanks for these comments! I wanted to add that we very regularly refer to the ITN/DYK sections (and OTD, too) when planning out the content calendar and responding to current news and topics. These are great, natural sources of topic inspiration for the Wikipedia channels. As mentioned, we welcome other ideas for articles / topics to share. I understand that the form may not always be the best way to do this. So, I invite you to share ideas and feedback on Meta-Wiki (we just did a light clean up of the page). I am also a member of the Facebook group (Wikimedia social media hub) that Andy shared; I see most posts, but the form and Meta-Wiki are the best way to reach me. For additional perspective, based on the note from Galder, there are currently two staff, including myself working on digital communications strategy at the Foundation, which includes both the Wikimedia and Wikipedia social accounts, as well as our website and blogs. Across all, we prioritize showing up with a consistent voice and identity, so through association, people understand our work better. Our strategy is global and we try hard to give equal weight to topics that reflect the diversity of our world and movement—keeping track of movement happenings, edit-a-thons, user group initiatives, current events, and trends in places across the world. Rather than focusing on putting out a large quantity of content, our goal with each post is to make people understand the diverse work that the movement does and the diverse range of knowledge that can be discovered on Wikipedia. This fosters understanding with those who may not have deep knowledge of how the movement works and what we stand for, but who may want to join us if they did. In addition to our regular content, we must be constantly vigilant and address potential misunderstandings about our work and projects. We monitor social chatter closely and strive to ensure that our content and replies meet the standards that uphold movement values. We track the metrics and impact of our social media efforts and find that our strategy is working well. For example, over the last year, we saw a 7% increase in

[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Hello again,
A couple of weeks ago this conversation was moved to 
Meta<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_engagement_questions>.
 There Lauren, from the Social Media team provided a couple of numbers to show 
how @Wikipedia handle on Twitter is doing "above the industry standards". The 
problem is that this numbers are plainly false. The team is dividing the number 
of interactions by the number of impressions, instead of the number of 
followers, that is what the metric was asking for.

I have asked there for the exact data on impressions, in order to calculate the 
real impact, but once the team has seen that their numbers are wrong, they are 
using distraction tactics in order to bury the problem.

So, as moving it to Meta seems like a move to forget about this, I would like 
to discuss the topic again. Can someone in the WMF provide the number of 
interactions we had in the last 28 days so we can see if, indeed, we are "above 
the industry standards"?

Thanks

Galder

From: The Cunctator 
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 1:55 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

I'm glad this conversation is moving over to meta-wiki. I hope the 
communications staff will recognize their job should be to facilitate the 
volunteers to do the work when it comes to anything other than speaking for the 
Foundation.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 2:22 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks Lauren, I have followed there, because I think we are measuring two very 
different things when talking about engagement.

Have a good day
Galder

2022(e)ko uzt. 18(a) 19:48 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson 
mailto:ldickin...@wikimedia.org>>):
Hi Galder, I just left a more detailed reply on 
Meta-Wiki<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_engagement_questions>
 so we can continue the conversation there. In summary, we refer to a few 
different sources to benchmark our engagement rates on @Wikipedia. According to 
Rival IQ<https://www.rivaliq.com/blog/social-media-industry-benchmark-report/>, 
the median Twitter engagement rate for brands across all industries is 0.037%; 
for nonprofits specifically, it is 0.054%. According to 
Adobe<https://www.adobe.com/express/learn/blog/what-is-a-good-social-media-engagement-rate>,
 "most would consider 0.5% to be a good engagement rate for Twitter, with 
anything above 1% great." @Wikipedia Twitter's engagement rate, according to 
the 
dashboard<https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/using-the-tweet-activity-dashboard>
 we access when logged-in to the account, over the last 28 day period is 2.7%. 
In May and June, it was 2.6% and 2.2%, respectively. I hope the resources 
shared are helpful for your management of @euwikipedia.

It's difficult to draw direct comparisons between the @euwikipedia and 
@wikipedia accounts due to the difference in follower size and our more global 
focus, as well as the objectives we are prioritizing to support the movement 
but also build resonance among groups who can help us to push forward our 
knowledge equity goals. At the same time, a straight comparison—with the 
understanding that I cannot see the analytics for the @euwikipedia 
account—reveals more retweets, likes, and comments on the @Wikipedia account. 
I'd like to better understand however if we are defining engagement 
differently. Also, an overall higher engagement rate from Twitter's analytics 
could be a result of the low base 
effect<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_base_effect> (comparing two accounts 
of different sizes).

Please note that I am managing a family commitment this week. I am happy to 
continue this conversation on 
Meta-Wiki<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Social_media#Re:_Twitter_engagement_questions>
 when I return.

Also, Andy, we will follow up this week regarding your 
questions<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Twitter> about the 
@WiktionaryUsers and @Wiktionary accounts. We do not currently have access but 
are exploring potential options via Twitter now.

Thank you, all, for your comments.

Lauren
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Wikimedia-logo_black.svg/54px-Wikimedia-logo_black.svg.png]
  Lauren Dickinson (she/her)
Senior Communications Manager
Wikimedia Foundation<https://wikimediafoundation.org/>


On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 5:16 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga 
mailto:galder...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for the answer, Lauren. I see quite a few interactions with the tweets 
(despite having more than half a million followers). You say that the 
engagement is above the industry standard. Is there any data we can use to 
compare? I'm one of the managers of @euwikipedia and I see we have even more 
engagement than @

[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear Lauren,That's plainly false: the "industry standard" you are using to measure is not related to Twitter engagement measure, because one uses impressions and the other followers. So comparing one measure to the other is not posssible, and we can't claim that we are above industry standards with the data you are providing.You can skip this conversation, you can report to whoever you want, but you can't claim that the numbers are correct, because that is false.Sincerely,Galder2022(e)ko abu. 2(a) 17:24 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson ):Hi Galder,Respectfully, we use Twitter's definition of engagement rate. Over the last 28 day period, the Wikipedia account garnered a 3.0% engagement rate. On Meta-Wiki, I previously shared several resources that confirm this is above industry standards, as I thought you were asking as a point of interest. The conversation, since, steered into an 'apples and oranges' comparison of two different accounts with different strategies, audiences, and goals.Again, we will be discussing our social media strategy with members of the Wikimedia communities on the Communications Committee in the near future. For this discussion, I believe it has become circular and detracts from our important work. I hope we can leave things at a place of respectful agreement (or disagreement).LaurenLauren Dickinson (she/her)Senior Communications ManagerWikimedia FoundationOn Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 4:32 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:






Hello again,

A couple of weeks ago this conversation was moved to Meta. There Lauren,
 from the Social Media team provided a couple of numbers to show how @Wikipedia handle on Twitter is doing "above the industry standards". The problem is that this numbers are plainly false. The team is dividing the number of interactions by the number of impressions,
 instead of the number of followers, that is what the metric was asking for.




I have asked there for the exact data on impressions, in order to calculate the real impact, but once the team has seen that their numbers are wrong, they are using distraction tactics in order to bury the problem.






So, as moving it to Meta seems like a move to forget about this, I would like to discuss the topic again. Can someone in the WMF provide the number of interactions we had in the last 28 days so we can see if, indeed, we are "above the industry standards"?




Thanks




Galder



From: The Cunctator <cuncta...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 1:55 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter
 


I'm glad this conversation is moving over to meta-wiki. I hope the communications staff will recognize their job should be to facilitate the volunteers to do the work when it comes to anything other than speaking for the Foundation.


On Mon, Jul 18, 2022, 2:22 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:


Thanks Lauren, I have followed there, because I think we are measuring two very different things when talking about engagement.


Have a good day
Galder 


2022(e)ko uzt. 18(a) 19:48 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson <ldickin...@wikimedia.org>):


Hi Galder, I just left a more detailed reply on 
Meta-Wiki so we can continue the conversation there. In summary, we refer to a few different sources to benchmark our engagement rates on @Wikipedia. According to

Rival IQ, the median Twitter engagement rate for brands across all industries is 0.037%; for nonprofits specifically, it is 0.054%. According to

Adobe, "most would consider 0.5% to be a good engagement rate for Twitter, with anything above 1% great." @Wikipedia Twitter's engagement rate, according to

the dashboard we access when logged-in to the account, over the last 28 day period is 2.7%. In May and June, it was 2.6% and 2.2%, respectively. I hope the resources shared are helpful for your management of @euwikipedia.


It's difficult to draw direct comparisons between the @euwikipedia and @wikipedia accounts due to the difference in follower size and our more global focus, as well as the objectives we are prioritizing to support the movement but also build resonance among
 groups who can help us to push forward our knowledge equity goals. At the same time, a straight comparison—with the understanding that I cannot see the analytics for the @euwikipedia account—reveals more retweets, likes, and comments on the @Wikipedia account.
 I'd like to better understand however if we are defining engagement differently. Also, an overall higher engagement rate from Twitter's analytics could be a result of the

low base effect (comparing two accounts of different sizes).  

Please note that I am managing a family commitment t

[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Hi Justice,I'm not trying to measure two accounts. I'm trying to know the number of interactions in the last 28 days from @wikipedia, as Lauren claimed that they are using that number when reporting. But it seems that getting that number is now impossible.It's the only thing I'm asking now, because Lauren claimed that the number of interactions was the metric they are using to measure the success of the strategy.If someone at the Communications Team does know the number of interactions in the last month, we could know if @wikipedia is succesful or not. We know that @euwikipedia is succesful by THAT STANDARD, the one proposed by Lauren to measure their work. Is not the one we use at @euwikipedia, as there are other relevant factors, related to audiences and sociolinguistics. Is @wikipedia who should support the claim they made two weeks ago, not me.Thanks,Galder2022(e)ko abu. 2(a) 19:50 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Justice Okai-Allotey ):Hi Galder,I have been reading the back and forth between you and Lauren, and I think we are making a mistake by using two completely different pages audiences to use as a reference.I don't think the account you reference has the same audience as the Wikipedia page, so it would be a mistake to use whatever metrics to make assumptions or make absolute statements. As long as the audience is different, there will be very different metrics, and the so-called industry metrics are not the holy grail. In other to make informed comments about any account metrics we first have to know what kind of metrics they are collecting and what success looks like regardless of each metric collected.Vanity metrics like they say in this day and age is not all that social media managers are looking for when they managing pages.As a social media manager likes and engagement may not mean anything to me but probably conversions will and this may not fully show in the metrics because those may not be the channels we are using to measure conversions.Industry standards are changing on a regular as far as managing social media accounts are concerned.Thank You.Regards,Justice.On Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 3:51 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:Dear Lauren,That's plainly false: the "industry standard" you are using to measure is not related to Twitter engagement measure, because one uses impressions and the other followers. So comparing one measure to the other is not posssible, and we can't claim that we are above industry standards with the data you are providing.You can skip this conversation, you can report to whoever you want, but you can't claim that the numbers are correct, because that is false.Sincerely,Galder2022(e)ko abu. 2(a) 17:24 erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Lauren Dickinson <ldickin...@wikimedia.org>):Hi Galder,Respectfully, we use Twitter's definition of engagement rate. Over the last 28 day period, the Wikipedia account garnered a 3.0% engagement rate. On Meta-Wiki, I previously shared several resources that confirm this is above industry standards, as I thought you were asking as a point of interest. The conversation, since, steered into an 'apples and oranges' comparison of two different accounts with different strategies, audiences, and goals.Again, we will be discussing our social media strategy with members of the Wikimedia communities on the Communications Committee in the near future. For this discussion, I believe it has become circular and detracts from our important work. I hope we can leave things at a place of respectful agreement (or disagreement).LaurenLauren Dickinson (she/her)Senior Communications ManagerWikimedia FoundationOn Tue, Aug 2, 2022 at 4:32 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:






Hello again,

A couple of weeks ago this conversation was moved to Meta. There Lauren,
 from the Social Media team provided a couple of numbers to show how @Wikipedia handle on Twitter is doing "above the industry standards". The problem is that this numbers are plainly false. The team is dividing the number of interactions by the number of impressions,
 instead of the number of followers, that is what the metric was asking for.




I have asked there for the exact data on impressions, in order to calculate the real impact, but once the team has seen that their numbers are wrong, they are using distraction tactics in order to bury the problem.






So, as moving it to Meta seems like a move to forget about this, I would like to discuss the topic again. Can someone in the WMF provide the number of interactions we had in the last 28 days so we can see if, indeed, we are "above the industry standards"?




Thanks




Galder



From: The Cunctator <cuncta...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2022 1:55 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re

[Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear all,
Some weeks ago, we had a discussion here about the different approaches we have 
for the @wikipedia account at Twitter. We don't know yet how many interactions 
does the account has, but as I said in the discussion, we try to find ways to 
measure our work at @euwikipedia. Today I want to share with you that this 
account was ranked last week as the most influential social-movements account 
in Basque language (https://umap.eus/ranking/gizartea) and the 10th most 
influential account in all categories (https://umap.eus/ranking/orokorra). This 
is a good metric we use to know if we are doing fine or not.

Sincerely,
Galder


From: Andy Mabbett 
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 8:50 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: @Wikipedia losing opportunities in Twitter

On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 at 18:48, Lauren Dickinson  wrote:

> Also, Andy, we will follow up this week regarding your questions
> about the @WiktionaryUsers and @Wiktionary accounts.

Three working weeks have passed since the above was written; I've seen
no such follow-up. Have I missed something?

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
https://pigsonthewing.org.uk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Invitation to join the Movement Strategy Forum

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Hello,
I agree with Mike's viewpoint: the report seems to be prewritten, and not based 
on actual discussions about the forum. Nevertheless, even if the summary was 
good, which is doubtful, the data presented in the discussion 
(https://forum.movement-strategy.org/t/ms-forum-community-review-report/1436/6) 
is confusing, and I would like to have a clarification. First of all, the axis 
isn't to scale, you are presenting three different monthly usages in percent 
but some of them are not adding 100%. I think I'm missing something in these 
graphs, because they should add up. Furthermore, presenting it as a percent 
makes the things confusing: there's actually more than 10x people participating 
in Meta, but the graph doesn't suggest this. The only world region where it 
seems to be more interactions via Forum than via Meta is in Sub-saharan Africa. 
But this is a percent, not a grand total. Around 12,5% of the Meta Users are 
from this region and around 22,5% of the Forum users. But 12,5% of the Meta 
users is 575 users, and 22,5% of MS forums is 33 people. Is to say, there are 
more than 17 times more users from Sub-saharan Africa using Meta than MS 
Forums. The graph is misleading also in this point, not only in the percent not 
adding up.

Then there are some interesting points about engagement. Is clearly going down. 
Is there any reflection on this? We don't have data on Meta engagement, so a 
comparison is difficult, but the data provided to defend that this forum is 
thriving is just saying the opposite.

If possible, I would like to have some clarifications on this data.

Thanks

Galder


From: Mike Peel 
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2022 7:56 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Invitation to join the Movement Strategy Forum

Hi,

With respect, I think you have a big selection effect in your report. I
guess you're getting most of your positive comments directly on your new
forum, and you're matching them against your initial viewpoint, rather
than being unbiased?

If you look at comments on-wiki, they seem to be quite negative, e.g.,
have a look through discussions at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_Strategy/Forum/Proposal
and:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(WMF)#new_resource_for_movement_discussions.

I strongly suggest running a Meta RfC about the existence of this forum,
following standard community processes, and then decide on its future:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment

Thanks,
Mike

On 18/8/22 17:00:36, Quim Gil wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> The Movement Strategy Forum (MS
> Forum) is a multilingual collaborative space for all conversations about
> Movement Strategy implementation. We are inviting all Movement
> participants to collaborate on the MS Forum. The goal of the forum is to
> build community collaboration using an inclusive multilingual platform.
>
>
> The Movement Strategy
> is
> a collaborative effort to imagine and build the future of the Wikimedia
> Movement. Anyone can contribute to the Movement Strategy, from a comment
> to a full-time project.
>
>
> Join this forum with your Wikimedia account, engage in conversations,
> and ask questions in your language.
>
>
> The Movement Strategy and Governance team (MSG) launched the proposal
> for this MS Forum in May. After a 2-month review period, we have just
> published theCommunity Review Report
> .
>  It
> includes a summary of the discussions, metrics, and information about
> the next steps.
>
>
> We look forward to seeing you at the MS Forum!
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> --
> Quim Gil (he/him)
> Director of Movement Strategy & Governance @ Wikimedia Foundation
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF
> 
>
> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Invitation to join the Movement Strategy Forum

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear Asaf,
You are right, Meta users are talking about whatever. It should be interesting 
to know what are the strategic discussions about, and how are them of a better 
quality through the MS Forum.

The forum topic with more interactions is interesting: 日本とのつながり / Japanese 
Connection. 
Then the next with most comments is "Say 
hello!". We have then 
one related to the Strategy, Sub-saharan Africa Strategic 
Talk,
  and the next most used 6 forum topics are about the platform itself, not 
about strategy. From the next 20 more commented topics, only 2 are about the 
MS. There's another one about the elections.

It seems that, as in Meta, the interactions are not especially about the 
Movement Strategy. And even those that are about the MS are not really 
impactful ([DRAFT] Minimum Criteria for Hub 
Pilots),
 with less than 7 users actually discussing, and at least 3 of them members of 
the WMF.

I don't know how to measure impact. I know that this is not a good metric in 
any way.

Cheers,
Galder

From: Asaf Bartov 
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2022 4:49 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Invitation to join the Movement Strategy Forum

On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra 
mailto:gnanga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Percentages look good, and show some comparison but the reality is the actual 
raw number say just as much when meta has 4600 and formun has less than 200  
and without staff less than 150 its not exactly a like for like engagement.

"Meta has 4600 and forum has less than 200", you say.  4600 what, though? That 
number is the number of "Active users", meaning people who make edits.

However, comparing the 4600 active users of Meta to the 200 active[1] users is 
not comparing like with like: on Meta, edits are made on hundreds of different 
topics, from requests for permissions through learning patterns, global abuse 
investigations, to grant proposals and discussions. And very little discussion 
of Movement Strategy. In other words, a very small proportion (what proportion 
exactly, I don't have the means to ascertain) of the 4600 active users of Meta 
are engaged in Movement Strategy, so the number 4600 represents nothing 
relevant to this discussion. The Forum, on the other hand, is dedicated to 
Movement Strategy discussion, so a large number of the 200 active users are in 
fact discussing Movement Strategy.  (Personally I would like the Forum to be 
even more focused on Movement Strategy and to discourage content-free "social" 
posts, but I am not involved with the Forum's governance.)

In other words, I suggest that those of you determined to only discuss Movement 
Strategy on Meta do more of that, to lead by example. It is within your power 
to move the critical mass of active discussion of Movement Strategy and the 
liveliest proposals and plans to Meta. Remember that it is as a response to the 
difficulty[2] of gaining traction for Movement Strategy conversations that the 
Forum was created.

Asaf
(personal opinion)

[1] I think discounting staff engaging on the Forum is a mistake.  Staff is 
also engaging on Meta, yet is included in the 4600 figure.  I am guessing more 
staff engage on the Forum, by design, but surely that engagement is a good 
thing, as it is on Meta.

[2] that difficulty is certainly not solely due to the technology of Meta; 
there were other factors dampening engagement about Movement Strategy, some of 
them, I daresay, the fault of the Foundation.  But Meta's shortcomings as a 
venue are indicated in surveys as a major reason people aren't engaging in 
conversation about Movement Strategy, so the Foundation acted on that input.  
Again, you can demonstrate that that reason is not a significant factor by 
creating and participating in lively Movement Strategy discussions on Meta.


[https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/SWZYcVEn695dioXdRPnKh1kLODfCsGvJ3osStupE1-kQpEIs3JH5HiA05w39awESC9XXTC1YMnxU64wUUBgQvNXyPEo-iu2QFQ9TEp6a0p8QaRuX4JpXfATenAst7MrRV9pX27H0]

Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)

Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities

Wikimedia Foundation

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum 
of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org


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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia+Education Conference. April 2019 Donostia-San Sebastián

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear all,
Basque Wikimedians User Group is happy to announce the celebration of the first 
Wikimedia+Education Conference, next April 2019 in Donostia. It will be a 
full-weekend Conference to talk about the relation between Wikimedia and our 
education projects, and the way Education is being shaped by Wikimedia.

Call for programme submissions and scholarships is now open, so we hope to have 
your input in this exciting event. All the information can be found here: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia%2BEducation_Conference_2019


Thanks for your interest

Galder
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia+Education Conference registration is now open

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear Wikimedians,
The very fist Wikimedia+Education Conference will be organized this April in 
Donostia, Basque Country. We have received more than 50 programme proposals so 
far, and registration is now open. You can register or send your programme 
proposals here: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia%2BEducation_Conference_2019

Thanks you very much and hope to see you soon.

Galder
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Bounties…

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

In the Basque wikipedia we are doing monthly contests on different topics, and 
some of them are focused on quality (i.e. adding references and images). There 
are some prices every month, usually books or thing related to technology. And 
people usually like to participate for the fun, and for the prize.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of 
Benjamin Lees 
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 5:14 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Bounties…

It's interesting that you chose spellchecking as your example.  On the
English Wikipedia, I tend to see that as an activity that some people
actually do find fun (or relaxing).  Plus, spelling errors (or perceived
spelling errors[1]) are something that unregistered users really like
fixing.  But maybe that varies significantly across language editions.

In any event, spelling errors are probably the case where eventualism is
most appropriate.  It is rare that someone will be misinformed because of
spelling mistakes, and they serve a useful signaling function in making it
clear that a given piece of content has probably not undergone peer
review.  And rather than driving people away, they tend to draw them
in—Cunningham's law[2] never fails.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:ENGVAR
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law


On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 6:55 PM John Erling Blad  wrote:

> Both in Wikipedia and other parts of the Wikimedia-universe there are
> a lot of jobs that should be done, but are not so popular. Because
> they are not done, people get tired and backs away from whatever they
> are doing.
>
> I could give several examples, but lets say spellchecking. It is not
> fun doing spellchecking, even if you are spellchecking something
> written by a professor. Instead of doing spellchecking you do
> something else, like poking around in some code, or write about
> Pokemon. While you do so the professor gets a bit annoyed over the not
> so perfect article, and starts to wonder what happen to the crowd in
> crowdsourcing.
>
> Somewhere along the way the it became so bad to talk about anything
> except the pure wikipedian sitting on top of his pillar with a book
> and a computer, writing articles in solitude, that we completely
> missed the opportunities to get a much larger momentum.
>
> The Norwegian Bokmål Wikipedia has over a half a million articles.
> About 10 % lack sources. Nearly all of them has spelling errors. It is
> nothing unusual about this.
>
> Could we use bounties to get some momentum?
>
> John Erling Blad
> /jeblad
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia+Education Conference programme announced

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Dear all,
The Wikimedia+Education Conference 2019 will happen soon in Donostia, Basque 
Country. The programme has been announced: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia%2BEducation_Conference_2019/Programme

We will host more than 50 events about the relationship between education and 
our movement.

Thank you very much

Galder
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] Video tutorial regarding creating Wikipedia references with VisualEditor

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

We have also some videotutorials in Basque: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_tutorial_videos_in_Basque

From: Education  on behalf of Lennart 
Guldbrandsson 
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 9:53 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wikimedia & GLAM collaboration [Public]; Wikimedia 
Education
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] Video tutorial regarding creating Wikipedia 
references with VisualEditor

Hello,

This is really good. I've been thinking about doing tutorials too, but so far I 
haven't started. Sara Mörtsell did a few videos in Swedish some time ago (for 
instance 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3ALektion_3_-_l%C3%A4gg_till_k%C3%A4lla_och_referenslista.webm)
 but they need to be updated.

When you do these, please try to document the process as well, to make it 
easier for others to replicate it. Thanks.


Best wishes,


Lennart Guldbrandsson



@aliasHannibal - på Twitter

Från: Education  för Pine W 

Skickat: den 26 februari 2019 04:48
Till: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wikimedia Education; Wikimedia & GLAM 
collaboration [Public]
Ämne: [Wikimedia Education] Video tutorial regarding creating Wikipedia 
references with VisualEditor

Hello colleagues,

*Overview*

A video tutorial for creating references on Wikipedia with VisualEditor is
in development for English Wikipedia and possibly also for Spanish
Wikipedia. Publication is likely to happen in March 2019. If this tutorial
is well received then additional tutorials may follow.

If you would like to receive notifications regarding the availability of
draft or finished tutorial products, or to learn additional information,
then please continue reading below.

*How can I request notifications for when drafts or finished products are
ready for review?*

If you would like to receive a notice when a draft or finished product is
ready for public review then I invite you to go to the the project talk
page and follow the link to the newsletter subscription page [1]. During
the development of this single tutorial the newsletters are likely to be
short. I am likely to send approximately 3 to 6 notifications to
subscribers between now and the end of this mini-project.

(The reason that I am not including a link to the newsletter's subscription
page directly in this email is that I may change the name of the newsletter
in the future, and I prefer to minimize any potential confusion and the
number of redirect pages, so I think that including a link from this email
to the talk page is preferable because the location of the talk page is
likely to remain stable.)

*Background information*

Some of you may remember the project that was originally named LearnWiki
[2]. For various painful reasons that project was not completed within the
original schedule and budget. However, I continue to believe that video
tutorials Wikimedia projects could be very useful for new contributors, and
also for helpers who could use the videos to demonstrate concepts to new
contributors. I think of this project as being a pilot iteration for
"LearnWiki version 2.0", or maybe "LearnWiki 2.0 beta 1",  with a major
change between this effort and the original LearnWiki project being how the
project is executed. The goal for this tutorial remains aligned with the
original vision for LearnWiki. I believe that I know more about project
management than I did when I attempted LearnWiki version 1.0.

WMF approved a rapid grant for me to develop a single tutorial module [3]
regarding creating Wikipedia references with VisualEditor. This tutorial is
in development, I and I plan to publish the finalized script and video in
March 2019. Depending on the amount of remaining funds after development of
the English version of this tutorial and on whether WMF agrees, in addition
to an English version of the tutorial I may also produce a Spanish version
within the budget of the current rapid grant. Additional translations or
derivative versions would be welcome from anyone who would like to create
them.

If this first tutorial is well received then I may request funding for
additional tutorials.

Within the next few days I plan to publish the first complete draft of the
script for the referencing tutorial. I will place a link to that draft on
the project talk page [1], and I am likely to create links from the same
talk page to further drafts and additional tutorial products. If you would
like to receive project updates then please watch the talk page and/or
subscribe to the newsletter.

I welcome any comments or questions that you have, either on a mailing list
or on the project talk page [1].

Yours in service,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:Project/Rapid/Pine/Continuation_of_educational_video_and_website_series

[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Motivational_and_educational_video_to_intr

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Video Wiki

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

WOW!

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of James 
Heilman 
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 6:55 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Video Wiki

Hey All

We have a new project called Video Wiki
 which
allows:

   1. The easy creation of videos from scripts from Wikipedia and images /
   short video segments from Commons
   2. Scripts can have inline references and the text of the script with
   references end up in the captions of the video with references. These
   captions can be turned on and off
   3. At the end of the video it automatically adds
  1.  the license for the text (CC BY SA license)
  2. attribution of those who have edited the scripts
  3. all the metadata for the references supporting the scripts
   4. The final video version on Commons lists the files that the video is
   derived from
   5. Attribution for the images is automatically added at the bottom of
   each image


Have started a discussion here on Wikipedia and would appreciate peoples
thoughts. Will be drafting a formal RfC about the use of such videos
eventually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Video_Wiki


--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Video Wiki

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Is it possible to add other languages if we have a free TTS system?

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Samuel 
Klein 
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 4:10 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Video Wiki

Brilliant.  Long in the making, much needed.

And for branding, the website devoted to this should be called Wikipedia
Media...

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 12:55 AM James Heilman  wrote:

> Hey All
>
> We have a new project called Video Wiki
>  which
> allows:
>
>1. The easy creation of videos from scripts from Wikipedia and images /
>short video segments from Commons
>2. Scripts can have inline references and the text of the script with
>references end up in the captions of the video with references. These
>captions can be turned on and off
>3. At the end of the video it automatically adds
>   1.  the license for the text (CC BY SA license)
>   2. attribution of those who have edited the scripts
>   3. all the metadata for the references supporting the scripts
>4. The final video version on Commons lists the files that the video is
>derived from
>5. Attribution for the images is automatically added at the bottom of
>each image
>
>
> Have started a discussion here on Wikipedia and would appreciate peoples
> thoughts. Will be drafting a formal RfC about the use of such videos
> eventually.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Video_Wiki
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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--
Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Search strings in "cite"

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

This has been working for a while, AFAIK I have been using it for more than two 
years now.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of John 
Erling Blad 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 4:14 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Search strings in "cite"

Anyone noticed the terse tech notice in november?

"When you edit with the visual editor you can use the "Automatic"
citation tab. This helps you generate citations. You will now be able
to write plain text citations or the title of a journal article or a
book in this tab. This will search the Crossref and WorldCat databases
and add the top result." [1]

This is absolutely great and should have been posted in big friendly
letters as a site notice!

[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198567

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Search strings in "cite"

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Sorry, I misunderstood you... yes, this is GREAT!

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Galder 
Gonzalez Larrañaga 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 4:16 PM
To: John Erling Blad; Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Search strings in "cite"

This has been working for a while, AFAIK I have been using it for more than two 
years now.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of John 
Erling Blad 
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2019 4:14 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Search strings in "cite"

Anyone noticed the terse tech notice in november?

"When you edit with the visual editor you can use the "Automatic"
citation tab. This helps you generate citations. You will now be able
to write plain text citations or the title of a journal article or a
book in this tab. This will search the Crossref and WorldCat databases
and add the top result." [1]

This is absolutely great and should have been posted in big friendly
letters as a site notice!

[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T198567

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Sverige receives a total of USD 500, 000+ in funding for three new projects, and a cost reduction of USD 30, 000/year

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Great news!
We can't wait to have the WikiSpeech application deployed, as the Basque 
language part is finished yet!

Cheers
Galder
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

The idea of rebranding Wikimedia to Wikipedia will create FAR more problems 
than it solves, specially in places where identifying ourselves with Wikipedia 
could create real life problems to affiliates. Let's think on making our 
product better, because is not a brand problem, is an obsolescence problem what 
we have.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Gerard 
Meijssen 
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:36 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

Hoi,
The problem is that Wikipedia has an article bound interest. Our aim is to
share in the sum of all knowledge and it is about subjects. In addition to
this the approach and `the lessons learned` in effect are used as a
template on how `other` Wikipedias are to function. This bias hinder, even
prevent other possible approaches.

Using Wikipedia to define what Wikimedia does, enforces existing bias and
hinders our mission.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:25, James Salsman  wrote:

> Hi Elena,
>
> If by "branding project" you mean replacing references to Wikimedia
> with Wikipedia, that is fine with me.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:58 AM Elena Lappen  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Thanks to those of you who have participated in the branding project
> > community consultation so far. We’ve received a lot of helpful feedback
> via
> > email, on-wiki, and in small meetings with affiliate group members and
> > individual contributors.
> >
> > I posted this invitation to the project talk page last week [1], but
> wanted
> > to send a reminder here that we will be hosting a video conference
> session
> > to give people a chance to see the presentation, ask questions and
> provide
> > feedback.
> >
> > When? This Thursday, April 11th from 16:00-17:00 UTC.
> >
> > Where? https://bluejeans.com/540134391/browser, or call in using your
> > closest local number [2] and enter meeting ID 540 134 391#.
> >
> > If you’d like to see the presentation but cannot attend, that is no
> > problem—we will be posting a recording to Commons and putting the link on
> > the talk page afterwards.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Elena
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review#Invitation_to_join_a_video_conference_presentation
> >
> >
> > [2] https://www.bluejeans.com/premium-numbers
> >
> >
> > --
> > Elena Lappen
> > Community Relations Specialist
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 7:14 PM Zack McCune 
> wrote:
> >
> > > :: Apologies for cross-posting to multiple mailing lists. We want to
> ensure
> > > we spread the word about this opportunity to as many people as
> possible. ::
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We are writing today to invite you to be a part of a community review
> on
> > > Wikimedia brand research and strategy.
> > >
> > > Recently, the Wikimedia Foundation set out to better understand how the
> > > world sees Wikimedia and Wikimedia projects as brands.[1] We wanted to
> get
> > > a sense of the general visibility of our different projects, and
> evaluate
> > > public support of our mission to spread free knowledge.
> > >
> > > We launched a global brand study to research these questions, as part
> of
> > > our planning toward our 2030 strategic goals.[2] The study was
> commissioned
> > > by the Board, carried out by the brand consultancy Wolff Olins, and
> > > directed by the Foundation’s Communications team.[3][4] It collected
> > > perspectives from the internet users of seven countries (India, China,
> > > Nigeria, Egypt, Germany, Mexico and the US) on Wikimedia projects and
> > > values.
> > >
> > > The study revealed some interesting trends:
> > >
> > > - Awareness of Wikipedia is above 80% in Western Europe and North
> America.
> > >
> > > - Awareness of Wikipedia averages above 40% in emerging markets,[5]
> and is
> > > fast growing.
> > >
> > > - There is awareness of other projects, but was significantly lower.
> For
> > > example, awareness of Wikisource was at 30%, Wiktionary at 25%,
> Wikidata at
> > > 20%, and Wikivoyage at 8%.
> > >
> > > - There was significant confusion around the name Wikimedia.
> Respondents
> > > reported they had either not heard of it, or extrapolated its
> relationship
> > > to Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > - In spite of lack of awareness about Wikimedia, respondents showed a
> high
> > > level of support for our mission.
> > >
> > > Following from these research insights, the Wolff Olins team also made
> a
> > > strategic suggestion to refine the Wikimedia brand system.[6] The
> > > suggestions include:
> > >
> > > - Use Wikipedia as the central movement brand rather than Wikimedia.
> > >
> > > - Provide clearer connections to the Movement projects from Wikipedia
> to
> > > drive increased awareness, usage and contributions to smaller projects.
> > >
> > > - Retain Wikimedia project names, wit

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Think of Wikipedia Russia convincing Russian government that they are not 
really Wikipedia Russia.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of 
Benjamin Ikuta 
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 4:21 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals



What real life problems would there be?



On Apr 9, 2019, at 6:11 AM, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga  
wrote:

> The idea of rebranding Wikimedia to Wikipedia will create FAR more problems 
> than it solves, specially in places where identifying ourselves with 
> Wikipedia could create real life problems to affiliates. Let's think on 
> making our product better, because is not a brand problem, is an obsolescence 
> problem what we have.
> 
> From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of 
> Gerard Meijssen 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:36 PM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals
>
> Hoi,
> The problem is that Wikipedia has an article bound interest. Our aim is to
> share in the sum of all knowledge and it is about subjects. In addition to
> this the approach and `the lessons learned` in effect are used as a
> template on how `other` Wikipedias are to function. This bias hinder, even
> prevent other possible approaches.
>
> Using Wikipedia to define what Wikimedia does, enforces existing bias and
> hinders our mission.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:25, James Salsman  wrote:
>
>> Hi Elena,
>>
>> If by "branding project" you mean replacing references to Wikimedia
>> with Wikipedia, that is fine with me.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jim
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:58 AM Elena Lappen  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Thanks to those of you who have participated in the branding project
>>> community consultation so far. We’ve received a lot of helpful feedback
>> via
>>> email, on-wiki, and in small meetings with affiliate group members and
>>> individual contributors.
>>>
>>> I posted this invitation to the project talk page last week [1], but
>> wanted
>>> to send a reminder here that we will be hosting a video conference
>> session
>>> to give people a chance to see the presentation, ask questions and
>> provide
>>> feedback.
>>>
>>> When? This Thursday, April 11th from 16:00-17:00 UTC.
>>>
>>> Where? https://bluejeans.com/540134391/browser, or call in using your
>>> closest local number [2] and enter meeting ID 540 134 391#.
>>>
>>> If you’d like to see the presentation but cannot attend, that is no
>>> problem—we will be posting a recording to Commons and putting the link on
>>> the talk page afterwards.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Elena
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review#Invitation_to_join_a_video_conference_presentation
>>>
>>>
>>> [2] https://www.bluejeans.com/premium-numbers
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Elena Lappen
>>> Community Relations Specialist
>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 7:14 PM Zack McCune 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> :: Apologies for cross-posting to multiple mailing lists. We want to
>> ensure
>>>> we spread the word about this opportunity to as many people as
>> possible. ::
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We are writing today to invite you to be a part of a community review
>> on
>>>> Wikimedia brand research and strategy.
>>>>
>>>> Recently, the Wikimedia Foundation set out to better understand how the
>>>> world sees Wikimedia and Wikimedia projects as brands.[1] We wanted to
>> get
>>>> a sense of the general visibility of our different projects, and
>> evaluate
>>>> public support of our mission to spread free knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> We launched a global brand study to research these questions, as part
>> of
>>>> our planning toward our 2030 strategic goals.[2] The study was
>> commissioned
>>>> by the Board, carried out by the brand consultancy Wolff Olins, and
>>>> directed by the Foundation’s Communications team.[3][4] It collected
>>>> perspectives from the internet users of seven countries (India, China,
>>>>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

From the first text:

" Explore new naming conventions for the Foundation and affiliate groups that 
use Wikipedia rather than Wikimedia."

I also think that Wikipedia is a much stronger brand than Wikimedia is, but I 
have been talking about this issue the last weeks in different places with way 
very different people and they all say that they will have real problems if 
they change the name from Wikimedia to Wikipedia. Legal issues will be more 
common if the name convention is changed from Wikimedia to Wikipedia, as you 
can be responsible (country law's depending) of what it is written on Wikipedia.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Chris 
Keating 
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 6:39 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

> At the occasion, we should also reconsider the expressions "chapter"
> and "user group".
> "Chapter" is more suitable for local divisions of a national
> association. And "user group" sounds just like some group. We also
> already have "user group" as a technical term in MediaWiki.
>

You may be aware that the movement strategy process is thinking about this
issue, albeit at a broader level :)

For instance one of the questions the Roles and Responsibilities group is
looking at is "What governance and organizational structures do we need to
support the delivery of the strategic direction?"(1)

You will notice that there is no mention of chapters, user groups or indeed
the WMF in this question. That's because there is no presumption that any
of those bodies (or types of bodies) will continue to exist in their
current form - the changes from the strategy process may well be much more
profound than finessing the names of categories of entity that currently
exist.

Thanks,

Chris



(1)
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Scoping_questions
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Programs & Events Dashboard

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I'm interested in the IP limit issue.. could you explain how it works, please?

Thanks

Galder

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Sage 
Ross 
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 6:18 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Programs & Events Dashboard

The Wikimedia Community Tech team is in the final stretch of their
Community Wishlist 2017 work and recently announced the beta launch of
the 'Event Metrics' project they worked on for the #3 wish. Since the
initial proposal [1] was to improve Wiki Education's program
organizing and metrics tool Programs & Events Dashboard [2], we've
heard from a lot of people worried that Event Metrics [3] is supposed
to be a replacement for the Dashboard or that the Dashboard is going
away.

To clear up any potential confusion: Wiki Education will keep
supporting Programs & Events Dashboard as part of our commitment to
making our technology work as useful as possible to the rest of the
Wikimedia movement. Our newly-expanded Technology department, along
with many awesome volunteers and interns, is more committed than ever
to improving the Dashboard as tool for global programs, because it's
been so essential for many of you.

Programs & Events Dashboard recently passed the milestone of 4,000
programs, from more than 100 different wikis, and more than 28,000
editors have logged in [4].

For those who haven't used it before, or haven't done so in a while,
some of the useful features include:

* Account registration for in-person edit-a-thons  — to avoid getting
stopped by the IP limit for new accounts
* Automatically updated metrics for articles edited, number of edits,
Commons uploads, etc. [5]
* Additional downloadable metrics, including 7-day retention of new
editors, the complete list of edits made
* For English and Portuguese Wikipedia, tools for monitoring which
articles are involved in deletion processes [6]
* Translatable, wiki-editable training modules for newcomers [7]
* For all the languages with ORES "article quality" models, extra data
and visualizations based on ORES estimates

We have some additional features planned for the near future as well:

* Metrics for number of citations added
* Wikidata metrics for claims created and references added

If you have feature requests or complaints, please do let us know
either on the Meta talk page [8] or by opening an issue on GitHub [9].
Our team is small, so we rely heavily on the feedback we get from
Programs & Events Dashboard users to identify problems and make
improvements.

-Sage Ross
Wiki Education



[1] 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2017/Programs_and_events/Development_of_the_programs_and_events_dashboard
[2] https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/
[3] https://eventmetrics.wmflabs.org/
[4] https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/usage
[5] 
https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/Wikimedia_ZA/Wiki_Loves_Africa_2019_South_Africa/home
[6] https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/campaigns/artfeminism_2019/alerts
[7] 
https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/training/editing-wikipedia/editing-basics/welcome-new-editor
[8] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Programs_%26_Events_Dashboard
[9] 
https://github.com/WikiEducationFoundation/WikiEduDashboard/issues/new/choose

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Programs & Events Dashboard

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks!
I prefer students to work directly on Wiki and not on the Dashboard, as they 
don't understand why they are in a completely different page that doesn't seem 
to be related to Wikipedia. But this is useful for some courses.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Sage 
Ross 
Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 8:13 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Update on Programs & Events Dashboard

On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 10:28 AM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm interested in the IP limit issue.. could you explain how it works,
> please?
>
> Thanks
>
> Galder
>

If you are one of the facilitators for a program or course on Programs &
Events Dashboard, there will be a button to "Enable account requests" on
the home tab. Once you enable account requests, there are two ways to use
the feature.

A user who follows the enrollment link and is not logged in will have the
option to request an account by entering their email address and desired
username. (The Dashboard will verify that the username is available before
they can submit the request.) Then, the facilitator will be able to see a
message when they view the program page, saying that there is a requested
account waiting to be created. They can click to approve it — at which
point, the Dashboard will create the account (and MediaWiki will email them
the temporary password), and also add that user as an editor for that
program.

A facilitator can also create a new account (and add it to the program)
directly, by entering an email and desired username on the Editors tab.
This is useful especially for in-person events like editathons, so that
those without accounts can get set up immediately upon arriving (rather
than needing to follow a link on their own computer).

How it works behind the scenes is that the facilitator or Dashboard admin
who clicks to create the account will attempt to do the account creation
action through OAuth with their own account (eg,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/Meredithdrum ), but if they
cannot do so because of the IP limit, the account will be created by
User:OutreachDashboardBot instead:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log/OutreachDashboardBot

The feature can also be enabled by default for an entire campaign.

We built the initial account creation feature for Art+Feminism 2018, but
this year, we added the OutreachDashboardBot fallback so event organizers
to request Account Creator rights (which is what most people running an Art
+ Feminism event did in 2018).

-Sage
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

I also think that there are some branding issues, but let me focus just in the 
opposite way: Wikimedia is not a bug, is a feature. When you say you represent 
WikiMedia, then someone asks about why an M ad not a P and gives you the 
opportunity to talk about our free knowledge ecosystem, that is not about an 
Encyclopedia, is much more. So deleting the M from the equation would vanish 
even more our sister projects.

On the other hand, think that maybe in 2022 (for example) we could create a new 
project based entirely on videos with free content from Wikipedia and Commons, 
that could be the best project by 2030... and we call it Wikivideo. Would still 
be a good idea to be called Wikivideo, a project by the Wikipedia Foundation, 
or would we start thinking on calling ourselves The Wikivideo Foundation? I 
think that being Wikimedia gives us better opportunities to make better 
decisions on our products than identifying totally with one of the products.

And I think there are branding issues, yes, but this are not on the name, but 
on the product and the logo families.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of 
Strainu 
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:56 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

Pe marți, 9 aprilie 2019, Chris Keating  a
scris:

> > At the occasion, we should also reconsider the expressions "chapter"
> > and "user group".
> > "Chapter" is more suitable for local divisions of a national
> > association. And "user group" sounds just like some group. We also
> > already have "user group" as a technical term in MediaWiki.
> >
>
> You may be aware that the movement strategy process is thinking about this
> issue, albeit at a broader level :)
>
> For instance one of the questions the Roles and Responsibilities group is
> looking at is "What governance and organizational structures do we need to
> support the delivery of the strategic direction?"(1)


One would hope that both that group as well as others will be informed and
will take into account the results of the study, which confirm anecdotic
data that almost anyone doing outreach knows.

This is not a matter to be left at  the foundation's sole discretion
(although I personally approve the proposals to various degrees).

Strainu

>
> You will notice that there is no mention of chapters, user groups or indeed
> the WMF in this question. That's because there is no presumption that any
> of those bodies (or types of bodies) will continue to exist in their
> current form - the changes from the strategy process may well be much more
> profound than finessing the names of categories of entity that currently
> exist.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> (1)
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_
> Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Scoping_questions
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Thanks Andrew for the insights. I agree with most of what you have proposed.

Actually there's a way to make everything easier: The Wiki Foundation. But it 
would create new problems with non-WMF-wikis.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

OpenWiki would be an even stranger and less known brand!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Well, that Wikidata problem happens on English Wikipedia. Some Wikipedias 
(Basque, Catalan, even French) are embracing Wikidata extensively.

And there's the branding issue. Maybe Wikipedia is not THE future.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

As I am the author of the post, some remarks:

  *   Commons is, indeed, the only [cloud] storage for file in most of the 
Wikipedias. Making an accusation of using Commons as a storage place is unfair 
and nonsense.
  *   Communication could be better, of course, but we don't have to think on 
experienced editors and wikimedians, but on people we are trying to convince to 
upload to the Commons and find this burden. They don't know how to communicate 
and why they must do it.
  *   The upload system allow you to upload something if you are the author. 
Period.
  *   Claiming that something is a derivative work without saying which is the 
original work is not a good practice.
  *   Of course, commons volunteers are few, and they have a great job-queue. 
But outreach volunteers are less, and a project like this can take a whole year 
of volunteer work.
  *   After all the victim-blaming seen on this discussion no one was able to 
point to a page where the procedure was clear for everyone.

Let's hope we can follow with this project next year and we will have less 
problems.

Cheers

Galder

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Vi to 

Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 3:35 PM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

I wonder wheter local sysops could be allowed to delete/undelete images on
commons in order to reduce workload. Most risky commons' uploads come from
cw-upload, allow local sysops to handle them could work.

Vito

Il giorno dom 12 mag 2019 alle ore 15:31 James Heilman 
ha scritto:

> It is hard to get the admin bit there aswell. Is Commons interested in
> having more admins?
>
> James
>
> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 5:41 AM Fæ  wrote:
>
> > A couple of years ago a proposed project was for the WMF to pay for
> > access to the Google image matching API access so we could run a
> > copyvio bot on the live new uploads list. Such a bot would not be
> > terribly hard to get working, and would be a great experiment to see
> > if this aspect of the more boring side of sysop tools could be
> > reduced.[1]
> >
> > Not specifically advocating auto-deletion, but daily housekeeping
> > image matches to highly likely copyrighted categories would make mass
> > housekeeping very easy.
> >
> > A separate old chestnut was my proposal to introduce systemic image
> > hashes, which neatly show "close" image matches.[2] With a Commons hat
> > on, such a project would be of far more immediate pragmatic use than
> > mobile-related and structured data-related projects that seem to suck
> > up all the oxygen and volunteer time available.
> >
> > Note that the history of these project/funding ideas is so long, that
> > several of the most experienced long term volunteers that were
> > originally interested have since retired. Without some positive short
> > term encouragement, not only do these ideas never reach the useful
> > experiment stage, but the volunteers involved simply fade away.
> >
> > Links
> > 1.
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2016/02#Google_has_opened_an_API_for_image_recognition
> > 2. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae/Imagehash
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 12:21, Amir Sarabadani 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > IMO commons need either a Clue Bot NG for new uploads or ores support
> for
> > > images that might be copyright violation, or both.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:10 PM Yaroslav Blanter 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just the active community itself is too small, compared with the
> > amount of
> > > > material it has to deal with.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta <
> > benjaminik...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the shortage of admins due to a lack of people willing or
> capable
> > to
> > > > do
> > > > > the job, or increasing difficulty in obtaining the bit?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On May 12, 2019, at 3:55 AM, Tomasz Ganicz 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Well, Actually, at the moment it looks they are all undeleted.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The good habit - which I was keeping when organizing several
> > > > GLAM-related
> > > > > > mass uploads - was to create on Commons project page describing
> > what it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > intended to be uploaded, preferably in English. Then you can
> > create a
> > > > > > project template to mark all uploads with them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Partnerships
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Despite practical issue of avoiding unnecessary clashes with
> > Common's
> > > > > > admins - creating template and project page helps to promote you
> > > > project
> > > > > > across Wikimedia communities and may inspire others to do
> something
> > > > > similar.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Commons is indeed quite hostile environment for uploaders, but on
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

Well.. there where instructions. All the videos were supervised before 
uploading, all the songs were perfectly cited at the descriptions and all the 
own work was marked as own work. This are the instructiones to follow when 
uploading to Commons.

From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of Peter 
Southwood 
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2019 7:59 PM
To: 'Wikimedia Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

It seems to be a situation where there were no clear instructions, so people 
did what they thought was a good idea, but others thought it was a bad idea. No 
communications, now the blame is being spread without analysing the problem and 
proposing a solution. Not an unusual situation really.
Cheers,
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of 
Mister Thrapostibongles
Sent: 11 May 2019 08:53
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

Hello all,

There seems to be a dispute between the Outreach and the Commons components
of The Community, judging by the article "Wikimedia Commons: a highly
hostile place for multimedia students contributions" at the Education
Newsletter

https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/News/April_2019/Wikimedia_Commons:_a_highly_hostile_place_for_multimedia_students_contributions

As far as I can understand it, some students on an Outreach project
uploaded some rather well-made video material, and comeone on Commons
deleted them because they appeared to well-made to be student projects and
so concluded they were copyright violations.  But some rather odd remarks
were made "Commons has to fight the endless stream of uploaded copyrighted
content on behalf of a headquarters in San Francisco that doesn't care." and
 "you have regarded Commons as little more than free cloud storage for
images you intend to use on Wikipedia ".

Perhaps the Foundation needs to resolve this dispute?

Thrapostibongles
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Dispute between Common and Outreach

[Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga]

A good question to ask would be why the admin group is not growing. And maybe 
(maybe) we can find a common answer to both problems pointed here.
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