[Wikimedia-l] Re: Arabic Wikipedia day of action

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

I am most sure that 99,9% of German Wikipedians are aware what was
necessary to end World War II: destroying the National Socialist
German Workers' Party.
With Hitler or another party member being in rule, peace was impossible.
(I say this with my mother''s family having been refugees, and my
father's family having suffered from the Allied bombings.)
Eventually, the civil society of Germany understood how the war and
all its consequences came into existence: "Because we gave in 1933
power to the wrong people." The inofficial state motto became "Never
again!", and in this spirit following the horrors of the Holocaust,
German Wikipedians edit Wikipedia.
Never again! is now.

Kind regards,
Ziko
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] 2022 Picture of the Year Results

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Kunal,
Thank you for your mail! And if we want to celebrate the photographers, the
best is to do that by embedding images into Wikipedia articles. :-)
Kind regards
Ziko

Kunal Mehta  schrieb am Di. 23. Mai 2023 um 05:56:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> The 2022 Picture of the Year competition has ended and we are pleased to
> announce the results:
>
> In both rounds, people voted for their favorite pictures.
>
>- In the first round, there were 1102 candidate images.
>- In the second round, people voted for the 56 finalists (the R1 top
>30 overall and top 2 in each category).
>
> In the second round eligible users could vote for up to 3 finalists – each
> of these 3 votes counted equal. There were 2,386 eligible voters in R1, and
> 2,860 in round R2.
>
> Congratulations to the winners of the contest and thanks for creating
> these beautiful pictures and sharing them as freely licensed content:
>
>1. 335 people voted for the winner, File:Phalacrocorax carbo, Egretta
>garzetta and Mareca strepera in Taudha Lake.jpg
>
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phalacrocorax_carbo,_Egretta_garzetta_and_Mareca_strepera_in_Taudha_Lake.jpg>
>by Prasan Shrestha
><https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Prasan_Shrestha>
>2. In second place, 299 people voted for File:Etipoia Banna tribe
>kids.jpg
><https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Etipoia_Banna_tribe_kids.jpg>
>by WAVRIK <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:WAVRIK>
>3. In third place, 292 people voted for File:Pillars of Creation
>(NIRCam Image).jpg
>
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pillars_of_Creation_(NIRCam_Image).jpg>
>taken by the James Webb Space Telescope (NASA, ESA, CSA, STScI); image
>processing by Joseph DePasquale (STScI), Anton M. Koekemoer (STScI), Alyssa
>Pagan (STScI)
>
> View those pictures and remaining results on-wiki
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2022/Results>.
> Thanks as well to all the voters that participated the process.
> - The Commons Picture of the Year committee
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/Committee>
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Could the broad use of ChatGPT mean more accesses to Wikipedia?

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Anders,

Thank you for your interesting question - we have been wondering for
some time what AI will mean for the future of the (entire) Wikimedia
movement.
Whether your observation is correct is also something I can only
speculate about. Possibly such a growth is rather a sign of
transition. Many people are still skeptical about AI. They then look
it up on Wikipedia to be on the safe side.

But which scenario will prevail?

a) AI-friendly: People will get used to AI very quickly. Of course,
people will affirm that they will always check all AI results. But
practically, no one will do that any more soon. And accordingly,
people will no longer look things up in Wikipedia itself. With all the
negative consequences for us.

b) AI-skeptical: Perhaps, after some scandals, people will not trust
AI. Then the backwardness of Wikipedia becomes a benefit. Then we can
proudly say, "Wikipedia is AI free!" And readers will appreciate it.

My fear is that the first scenario is more likely to come to pass. I
think the trend is that you speak a question into your smartphone.
Then you get a short, correct and understandable answer from an AI.
Will Wikipedia be able to do the same thing?

Best regards,
Ziko

Am Mo., 15. Mai 2023 um 11:24 Uhr schrieb Anders Wennersten
:
>
> The number of accesses to the Wikipedias of de, nl and sw all show a
> small increase in March and April compared with 2022 after a half big
> decrease in January and February. Could this be related to the broad
> introduction and use of ChatGPT at the same time period?
>
> ChatGPT gives an excellent answer, with no use of Wikipedia, to the
> question: "Who is the oldest person who has received the Nobel Prize in
> chemistry?" but will the effect be that the person who put in that
> question, access Wikipedia to read of him? And you get a very nice
> answer from ChatGPT if you directly after the question above puts
> "Include a link to Wikipedia"
>
> Could my speculation be correct, that ChatGPT will become an important
> tool to help us reach our mission, by improving the way to find
> information in our projects?
>
> Anders
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Deror Lin passed away

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Itzik,
What terrible news! Many Wikipedians, including me, remember him from his
long time work, also internationally. A really great person.
Very sad news.
Kind regards
Ziko

itzik Edri  schrieb am Sa. 6. Mai 2023 um 12:59:

> Dear friends,
>
> I'm sorry to update that our friend and colleague Deror Lin
> (user:Deror_Avi) passed away this morning.
>
> Deror was a truly Wikimedian in blood who poured his heart and soul into
> the movement in many ways, even in his final days. He joined Wikipedia in
> 2004 and was one of the founders of Wikimedia Israel. For over 16 years, he
> served as an active board member.
>
> He was the driving force behind Wikimania 2011 in Haifa and a key member
> of the Wikimania committee ever since. He led countless programs and
> projects, both locally and internationally, including conferences, WLM
> competitions, educational programs, photo and editing contests, and many
> others.
>
> More than that, he wrote over 8,600 articles on HEWP (comprising more than
> 2% of it!), making him the number one article writer in HEWP, alongside
> more than 37,000 contributions to Commons.
>
> For his huge contribution and love for the movement, he was honored last
> year as the Wikipedia Laureate of 2022.
>
> Deror, you were not just a colleague but a true friend. We worked together
> on many projects, events, and initiatives over the years. No matter the
> situation, you always had a smile and shining eyes with your love for
> Wikipedia.
>
> *On behalf of Wikimedia Israel, I extend our deepest condolences to
> Deror's family and friends. You will always be remembered, Deror.*
> *ברוך דיין האמת. Baruch dayan ha-emet*
>
>
> Itzik.
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Dr. Ziko van Dijk | zikovandijk.de
Autor von "Wikis und die Wikipedia verstehen"
<http://www.zikovandijk.de/wikis-und-die-wikipedia-verstehen/>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Chat GPT

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Victorioa,

Thank you for the great question!

In my humble opinion, ChatGPT is far away from producing useful
Wikipedia content. My own experience is here to see:
https://youtu.be/zKPEyxYt5kg

But anyone who wants to use the existing AI website(s) may use the AI
at pleasure and copy content from it. Finally, it is the individual
editor who is responsible for her edits.

Should we include AI in the user interface of Wikipedia? I tend to say
no. But I have to think about automatic translation services: these
are very good nowadays, and I'd actually wish one being integrated in
the Wikipedia translation tool! Of course, the human editor MUST
ALWAYS check the translation with her own eyes. But the integration
into the translation tool would be very welcome.

There is resistance against the inclusion of automatic translation,
because that would make it easier for lazy editors to abuse it. (Not
checking the translations personally.)

And that is my objection against the integration of AI text production
in Wikipedia's website: it would make it lazy editors too easy to add
dubious content.

(I know that it is a contradiction if I welcome the automatic
translation but not the AI text production, but that is partially due
to the specific structure of the translation tool.)

At the moment, AI texts often look excellent but are very unreliable.
And that makes it so dangerous.

Kind regards,
User:Ziko

P.S.: One example of todays's playing with ChatGPT. Who was
responsible for the 1933 Reichstag fire? According to AI, the national
socialists. There is proof for that.
- Oh? I learned that the historians are still arguining. So I asked
the AI: What is the proof?
- And the AI gave me some motives of the national socialists, but no
proof. Instead, the AI offered that "Georg Irminger" was a national
socialist involved in the fire, according to his own confession. But
that confession might have been made under torture.
- I wonder about the name and Google it. Google knows of several
people named Georg(e) Irminger, but all of them died before 1933. I
tell the AI that Georg Irminger does not exist!
- The AI apologizes for giving me wrong information. Instead, some
Georg Elser was involved in the fire, according to his own confession.
But that confession might have been made unter torture.

Funny aftermath: I mentioned this conversation in a Facebook group
"Digital history" (in German). One person answered: "But no, Georg
Elser was not related to the fire, he later tried to shoot Hitler!"
(Georg Elser did not try to shoot anyone, he tried to kill Hitler with
a bomb in 1939.)











Am Fr., 30. Dez. 2022 um 01:10 Uhr schrieb Victoria Coleman
:
>
> Hi everyone. I have seen some of the reactions to the narratives generated by 
> Chat GPT. There is an obvious question (to me at least) as to whether a 
> Wikipedia chat bot would be a legitimate UI for some users. To that end, I 
> would have hoped that it would have been developed by the WMF but the 
> Foundation has historically massively underinvested in AI. That said, and 
> assuming that GPT Open source licensing is compatible with the movement 
> norms, should the WMF include that UI in the product?
>
> My other question is around the corpus that Open AI is using to train the 
> bot. It is creating very fluid narratives that are massively false in many 
> cases. Are they training on Wikipedia? Something else?
>
> And to my earlier question, if GPT were to be trained on Wikipedia 
> exclusively would that help abate the false narratives?
>
> This is a significant matter for the  community and seeing us step to it 
> would be very encouraging.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Victoria Coleman
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: ChatGPT and Wikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
About my experiences with Chat CPT - is it good enough to write our
articles? - I made this video:
https://youtu.be/zKPEyxYt5kg
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Di., 20. Dez. 2022 um 20:25 Uhr schrieb Pharos
:
>
> I'd like to share my experiment with using ChapGPT to help write an article 
> on English Wikipedia:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artwork_title
>
> You can see an explanation of the process here, your comments are welcome:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Artwork_title#Use_of_ChatGPT
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 1:45 PM ZhaoFJx  wrote:
>>
>> I'd be curious about copyright issues though, as it's licensed on Github. It 
>> may indeed be infringing copyright, since he may require attribution. 
>> However, I agree with The Cunctator that the community won't do anything 
>> about it.
>>
>> Incidentally, I'm a little worried that he might grab broken content that 
>> wasn't rolled back. After all - the current artificial intelligence can not 
>> reach the level of human thinking
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> ZhaoFJx
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>>
>> Anders Wennersten  于2022年12月19日周一 08:52写道：
>>>
>>> I think we should not underestimate what this could evolve into. We thrived 
>>> because our readers find us "good enough" when it comes to finding facts, 
>>> not the ultimate source.
>>>
>>> And the software learns by reading, and can (and have done so) Wikipedia, 
>>> Wikidata etc and represent our data in its own syntax och present it in a 
>>> way so it is not a direct copy. Perhaps data will be a bit delayed to the 
>>> actual content in Wikipedia, but so what - good enough?
>>>
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> Den 2022-12-19 kl. 14:26, skrev Gnangarra:
>>>
>>> AI simply cant descriminate between good research and faked research, for 
>>> any outcome it must provide all of its sources whether they are from 
>>> Wikipedia, Wikidata, WikiCommons, WikiSource or some other place.  
>>> Otherwise it will answer yes to some asking if the world is flat because 
>>> it'll seek out that answer and find all the nonsense that has been produced.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 at 06:02, Erik Moeller  wrote:

 On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 5:55 AM Anders Wennersten
  wrote:
 > ChatGPT is now making headlines more or less every day  and I perceive
 > them to try to position themself  av the "next" google.

 I suspect OpenAI will continue to focus on generative applications
 (images, code, text for purposes such as copywriting, eventually
 music/video) and won't attempt to compete with Google directly, but
 we'll see. Currently GPT-3.5 (which ChatGPT is based on) is very prone
 to generating nonsensical answers, citations to works that don't
 exist, etc. But it is pretty cool if you keep its limitations in
 mind--for example, it's quite good at bootstrapping small scripts in
 various programming languages (with mistakes and idiosyncrasies).

 Google has one of the largest AI research programs on the planet, they
 just are extremely conservative about letting anyone try their models
 (due to reputational concerns, e.g., that generative AI will spit out
 racist output within about 30 seconds of people poking its
 guardrails). This blog post from September is instructive about the
 direction they're taking with what's called retrieval-augmented
 generation; see the paper linked from the post for details:

 https://www.deepmind.com/blog/building-safer-dialogue-agents (DeepMind
 is part of Google)

 That is likely to yield significantly more accurate answers than what
 ChatGPT is doing, and is difficult to replicate for folks like OpenAI
 without being dependent on the search APIs of big search companies.
 It's worth noting that Google has also started to incorporate language
 model tooling into how it's presenting search results (e.g.,
 summarizing or highlighting different parts of a website to make the
 result snippet more useful).

 A retrieval-augmented approach that leverages Wikidata could IMO be
 quite powerful and could be a useful research program for Wikimedia to
 pursue, be it independently or in partnership with others. The
 resulting technology should of course be fully open source.

 Querying Wikidata via SPARQL is currently still a bit of wizardry (and
 the query builder is extremely limited). To pick a completely random
 example not at all inspired by current events, if I wanted to see a
 list of journalists with Mastodon accounts & a picture, I currently
 have to do this:

 SELECT DISTINCT ?personLabel ?mastodonName ?pic
 WHERE {
   ?person wdt:P4033 ?mastodonName ;
 wdt:P106 ?occupatio

[Wikimedia-l] Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Decision of WLM in Ukraine organizers not to submit photos for the international round

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Olga,

Thank you for your explanations, it is good to hear about them on this
list. I wish you all the best for the Wikimedia work in Ukraine.
I understand that I, compared to most people in Ukraine and Russia,
live in very, very favorable circumstances.
However, I feel that some statements in this thread are disturbing and
inapproriate:
* "Yes, bombs are not falling onto our homes but we are having risks
of other nature that can have same, or even worse consequences."
* "But don't think that you are the only one struggling. That would be
a bit selfish even in these damn conditions."
Given the situation, and given the actual news from Ukraine, the
crimes against humanity, I'd wish that these statements had not been
made.
I also read:
* "Cultural heritage topic was always aside of world politics and I
hoped this time it would stay the same."
Kolja himself mentions the destruction of Ukrainian cultural heritage
that is going on now. And it does not need much googling to learn that
destroying buildings, stealing art, burning books etc. - and killing
the people linked to a culture - is very much part of "world
politics".
Olga, as I said, I wish you all the best for your Wikimedia work in
Ukraine, and beyond.

Kind regards,
Ziko




Am Do., 15. Dez. 2022 um 08:59 Uhr schrieb Željko Blaće :
>
> Dear Olga and WLM Ukraine - your work is impressive and your efforts to bring 
> visibility and point to issues with WLM in 2022 are also.
>
> I can empathize with the feeling one gets when others are benevolent to 
> recognize and act on what seems obvious *(as  someone who experienced war 
> aggression in all of my homelands, first SFR Yugoslavia, then Croatia and 
> Bosnia & Herzegovina. I do agree that the WLM 2022 international team should 
> not process Russian photos in a competitive way against Ukrainians and I wish 
> this was raised as an issue more publicly. WLM had issues also before with 
> inertia and no capacity and/or good will to recognize problems on national 
> levels. Here I agree with Peter on no good options but this is no excuse for 
> not exploring good-enough or better-than options!
>
> I am hopeful that your work will sustain and that soon enough you will inform 
> and inspire systemic change in Wikimedia.
> Meanwhile I hope WMF can practically support your work at least with material 
> resources to reduce some of the hardships.
>
> In solidarity - Z. Blace
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[Wikimedia-l] Think big! An open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear friends of free knowledge,

Wikimedia Commons is in crisis. There are numerous concerns and
complaints about our central media platform, for many years.

Therefore, this open letter asks the Wikimedia Foundation to Think
big! about the future of Wikimedia Commons.

In late August 2022, we at the Commons Photographers User Group talked
about Wikimedia Commons. The result of these and other talks is this
open letter.

We invite everyone to sign this open letter to show how important
Wikimedia Commons is to you. You may be a regular Commons contributor,
a Wikipedian, an editor of Wiktionary or Wikivoyage, or maybe you
represent an affiliation. We also strongly invite other people who are
involved with Commons directly or indirectly, maybe in the context of
a GLAM.

Please inform others about this open letter.

Kind regards,
Ziko van Dijk

Link:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Think_big_-_open_letter_about_Wikimedia_Commons

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Offizieller Wikipedia-Kulturbotschafter 2022-2024
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Unveiling Wiki Loves Africa 2022 Int'l Top 20 images

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Ceslause,

Wonderful news, and wonderful images! I am looking forward to check
out the images of this year's competition, as there are usually many
WLA pictures that are great to illustrate articles.
One point of concern, but that relates generally to most images on
Wikimedia Commons: the better the descriptions, the easier it is to
use an image.
Again, great images!

Kind regards
Ziko




Am Di., 4. Okt. 2022 um 11:26 Uhr schrieb Ceslause Ogbonnaya
:
>
> Dear all,
>
> We are delighted to share with you the Top 20 images from the Wiki Loves 
> Africa 2022  Home+Habitat themed Int'l photo contest, selected from over 
> 16,000 entries!
>
> Enjoy the "Home+Habitat" view from across Africa:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WLA_2022_International_Top_20_Shortlist.webm
>
> Regards,
> Ceslause
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Total Beginner - Hi!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Korryn,

thank you for your mail and interest in the Wikimedia movement!

Allow me, as a simple subscriber of this list myself, a short note:
the list has not been very active the last years. But from time to
time we experience here smaller discussions about the most various
topics. Often, not always, we discuss following an announcement of the
Wikimedia Foundation.

I hope that this helps you, and that you find all the channels of the
Wikimedia Movement that will help you with your engagement.

One place for specific questions about English Wikipedia, for example,
is this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk

A more general place with lots of information is this one:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Kind regards,
Ziko

Am Mi., 17. Aug. 2022 um 13:55 Uhr schrieb Korryn Graves
:
>
> Hello! I am nofacehellas, and I am brand new to wikipedia in general, but I 
> have particular interest in getting on this list because I am very active in 
> all |-related discussions, and I feel ready to speak up and advance my 
> philosophy and journalism skills! If anyone can help me or send me a message 
> so I can get some help navigating the site I'd greatly appreciate it!
>
> Thanks,
> Korryn
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia and poverty: an interview with Victor Grigas

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear movement,

How do school children living in poverty access Wikipedia? It is more
difficult than many of us may think.

In 2013, Victor Grigas produced a short film for the WMF, about a
school class in South Africa. The film was made for a (controversial)
campaign then, but it still is a great documentary about poor people
who would like to read Wikipedia but not always have the money for it.

Now I have interviewed Victor about this movie and why he (and
director Charlene Music) made it. It turns out that he had very
personal motives when he proposed this project to his supervisor at
the WMF.

We also talked about the reasons why some people reacted quite
negatively to the movie.

If you are interested in Wikipedia in the global south, about
Wikipedia in Xhosa language and the consequences of apartheid: I
strongly recommend to watch Victor's 2013 documentary. And if
possible, it would be great with you share the links.

Kind regards,
Ziko van Dijk


Link to the interview with Victor Grigas:
https://youtu.be/19cLqpqfC6U

Link to the 2013 movie (with subtitles in English and German):
https://youtu.be/mtD5ccRe-vY



-- 

Dr. Ziko van Dijk | zikovandijk.de
Autor von "Wikis und die Wikipedia verstehen"
Offizieller Wikipedia-Kulturbotschafter 2022-2024
"Niederlande & Deutschland": https://www.youtube.com/ZikovanDijk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

As in Wikipedia language versions, article numbers don't count.
Wikikids has many "articles" that consist only of one or two
sentences. That makes it easy to reach tenthousands of "articles". :-)
https://wikikids.nl/Seks_museum
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 24. Juni 2022 um 11:42 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
:
>
> Hi,
>
> You may compare :
> - Grundschulwiki in german, launched in december 2005 with institutionnal 
> support and enought visibility I guess, restricted to articles produced by 
> the schools : 1,134 articles today : 
> https://grundschulwiki.zum.de/wiki/Hauptseite
> - Wikikids.nl in Dutch, launched by teachers in march 2006, yet opened both 
> to school works and anybody : 35,839 articles today : https://wikikids.nl/
>
> Note that German is the main language of about 100 millions people whereas 
> Dutch is the one of about 24 millions peoples.
>
> That mean that only content produced by schools don't make enought content to 
> be a fair resource to readers. You have to work in the Wikipedia way to 
> thrive.
>
> 2d note : The number of articles on Grundschulwiki is quite similar to the 
> number of the articles that were tagged as written by school project in 
> Vikidia in French : 
> https://fr.vikidia.org/wiki/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Article_fruit_d%27un_travail_scolaire
>  1,255 articles today (out of  35,840).
>
>
> Envoyé: vendredi 24 juin 2022 à 10:37
> De: "Adam Sobieski" 
>
> As for the earlier discussion in this thread about wiki-based encyclopedias 
> for younger students, one idea is to let school districts host their own 
> encyclopedias and to research how to federate or combine contents and content 
> updates from and across software at each school… like a P2P network of 
> MediaWiki software nodes.
>
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 20:40 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
:
> Vikidia in French and Wikikids in Dutch are by far the biggest wiki 
> encyclopedias for children, with about 35000 articles each. Yet young reader 
> on the Vikidia's guestbook still ask for "more content", which certainly mean 
> both

One way to know what people are looking for is the search box. I
explain about that in the mentioned document. :-)
Kind regards
Ziko
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello WSC,

It is even more complicated: two 10 year olds may be not on the same
level with regard to reading or knowledge of the world.
The Klexikon has a "little sister", the MiniKlexikon with articles
that are even more simple and targetted to beginning readers and
people with specific challenges.

Ideally, one would have
* an encyclopedia for the very young, that parents read to them,
* an encyclopedia for the 8 to 13 year olds, the target group for many
of the existing kids' wikis,
* an encyclopedia for juvelines, 14 to 18 years
* an encyclopedia for everyone; this is what "regular Wikipedia" should be,
* an encyclopedia for specialists; this is what "regular Wikipedia"
actually develops into.
And maybe encylopedias for people with specific challenges such as
dyslexia. You actually do not need millions of articles for a good
encyclopedia, some thousand well written articles are enough.

It is sad that there is no more support for encyclopedias other than
Wikipedia. As when it comes to news or fiction, there is not "one that
fits everything/everybody".

Kind regards,
Ziko

Am Do., 23. Juni 2022 um 15:57 Uhr schrieb WereSpielChequers
:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm curious as to what level of reading skill you are writing this for and 
> also what level of understanding/adulthood.
>
> I see these as two different issues and both are likely to vary sharply 
> especially between different countries with very different education systems.
>
> A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be very 
> different than one written for thirteen year olds. And content that parents 
> of fourteen year olds thought was age inappropriate in Alabama might be 
> thought appropriate or even bowdlerised by parents of ten year olds in London.
>
> In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia is the 
> answer to either the problem of reading age or age appropriate content?
>
> Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our use of 
> jargon. To my mind a "general interest" english language encyclopaedia should 
> be written in plain English. I suspect other language versions have similar 
> issues.  Perhaps if we focussed more on this we would make it easier for 
> those who wish to create childrens' versions.
>
> Regards
>
> WSCail to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
At the moment I am working on a document that extensively explains how
we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a
private message. The document is not really public yet. :-)
Kind regards
Ziko
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon

Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
:
>
> Hi,
>
> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" 
> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project 
> is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could 
> potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very 
> aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are 
> involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to 
> continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not worth the extra 
> effort.  This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a 
> team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and 
> identity verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the 
> way of kids editing the existing projects.
>
> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly.
>
> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet 
> the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and 
> moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the 
> potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would 
> also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is 
> taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform 
> themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the 
> Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries).
> We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
>
> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the 
> risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and 
> unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very 
> few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
>
> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for 
> just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this blog 
> post :
> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation
> https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/
> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their 
> closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if a 
> wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators either 
> to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the community or 
> all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki encyclopedias for 
> children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
>
> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages :
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>
> Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37
> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" 
> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" 
> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra 
> step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you 
> are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can 
> find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters 
> at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended 
> for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so 
> providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction 
> says) is better that not providing at all.
>
> I can only agree!
>
>
> Mathias Damour
> [[User:Astirmays]]
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Samuel,

Thank you for your mail. I would like to see more attention from the
Wikimedia movement for the target group children age ca. 8-14.

I am afraid there is no real comprehensive study about the best way to
provide encyclopedic wiki content to children, or even to involve them in
the content creation.

In general, children are a very special and vulnerable group. This can
become problematic when they are directly involved on a platform, and when
it comes to the content itself.

Kind regards
Ziko


Samuel Klein  schrieb am Mo. 20. Juni 2022 um 02:25:

> Reminded today of how beautifully this kids encyclopedia has worked out:
> Txikipedia:Azala <https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Txikipedia:Azala> (main
> page),  Txikipedia:Gengis_Khan
> <https://eu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Txikipedia:Gengis_Khan>
>
> More languages should try that.   a) simple skin hack, b) loving and
> lovely idea, c) more compelling to me than the standalone kidipedia
> projects :)   Anyway, thanks for improving my weekend, Txikipedians.   SJ
>
> (posting to wm-l since wp-l is gone now...)
>
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-- 

Dr. Ziko van Dijk | zikovandijk.de
Autor von "Wikis und die Wikipedia verstehen"
<http://www.zikovandijk.de/wikis-und-die-wikipedia-verstehen/>
Offizieller Wikipedia-Kulturbotschafter 2022-2024
"Niederlande & Deutschland": https://www.youtube.com/ZikovanDijk
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Open letter on negating race and ethnicity as "meaningful distinctions" in the UCoC

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

What does the incriminated sentence actually mean?

"The Wikimedia movement does not endorse "race" and "ethnicity" as
meaningful distinctions among people."

Does this mean that
* the WM is against; or
* that the WM is neutral on the topic?

And, after reading the English Wikipedia article about [[Ethnic
group]] (redirect from "ethnicity"), it seems that "ethnicity" can
mean many things.
Personally, I am very sure, if I asked e.g. the [[Sorbs]] in Eastern
Germany, that most of them are quite convinced that they form an
ethnic group.

Kind regards,
Ziko




Am Mo., 11. Apr. 2022 um 18:42 Uhr schrieb Dan Szymborski
:
>
> It's almost as if ratifying an incomplete document based on vague framework 
> and future changes is a terrible idea.
>
> That this is coming up now is not the least bit surprising. It was brought 
> up, along with many things, during one of the arbitrarily endpointed 
> "discussion" periods that involved people in the Wiki movement asking 
> questions and receiving next to no substantive communication from people who 
> were writing the document. You'd have better luck asking the wishing well 
> what it did with your penny.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 1:06 AM Peter Southwood 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Definitions of terminology makes sense in any document that is intended as 
>> an enforceable guide to behavior. Without them, whose definition applies? 
>> Cheers, Peter
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lane Chance [mailto:zinkl...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 11:17
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Open letter on negating race and ethnicity as 
>> "meaningful distinctions" in the UCoC
>>
>> It would make the UCoC easier to understand if there was a glossary on
>> the same page. A chosen definition of "race" or "ethnicity" being used
>> in the context of this policy document may not be the same as exists
>> in the reader's head, how they describe their own identity, or as
>> might be used on their local language Wikipedia. This could then be
>> the place to distinguish the relevance to the policy of race versus
>> racism.
>>
>> In this thread we see stated as a fact that Jews are an ethnicity but
>> not a race, which could cause a big argument in its own right. See the
>> "Whoopi Goldberg" incident.
>>
>> Lane
>>
>> On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 at 01:19, Zachary T.  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > I think there's a misinterpretation here. Saying that race and ethnicity 
>> > aren't meaningful distinctions among people doesn't mean that racism 
>> > doesn't exist. That's a lot of negatives, but the way I see it, it's just 
>> > recognizing that race is in fact a social construct, and thus because of 
>> > that it isn't truly meaningful. I would suggest using inherently 
>> > meaningful to clear up the confusion here, because I think that more 
>> > clearly expresses the sentiment.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 4:23 PM Maggie Dennis  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello, Anasuya and Whose Knowledge.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> (Context for those who don’t know me: I am the Vice President of 
>> >> Community Resilience & Sustainability, and among others I oversee the 
>> >> team shepherding the UCoC process.)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thank you very much for raising this issue. Foundation staff have been 
>> >> discussing this as well with the same points that you have raised, and it 
>> >> is something we’ve been thinking about how to address.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As probably many of you know, the plan all along had been to get the UCoC 
>> >> policy, to get the enforcement approach, and then to see how they work 
>> >> together in operation. Our plan has been to review the policy and 
>> >> enforcement approach together a year after the ratification of Phase 2. 
>> >> However, we decided to prioritize a slower approach to Phase 2 to make 
>> >> sure it was functional out the gate especially for the functionaries and 
>> >> volunteers who enforce it, as a result of which the timeline we had 
>> >> imagined for Policy review has been considerably pushed back. If we had 
>> >> made our preliminary time plan, we would have started testing these out 
>> >> months ago. The Policy and Enforcement Guidelines would have been ripe 
>> >> for review sometime around November 2022.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As you all know, the vote has just concluded on the UCoC Phase 2. In the 
>> >> vote, community members were asked if they supported it as written or 
>> >> not, with the ability to provide feedback either way - with the notion 
>> >> that the feedback would help us focus on major blockers to the 
>> >> enforcement approach. I have already spoken to several members of the 
>> >> Board about some of the concerns that have been raised about the 
>> >> enforcement guidelines; we’ve spoken about this passage in the Policy, 
>> >> too. I know from my conversations with the Board that they want to get 
>> >> this done right, not just get it done - and they are very open to 
>> >> understa

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Open letter on negating race and ethnicity as "meaningful distinctions" in the UCoC

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Anasuya,

Thank you for your insightful post. Just for clarification: do you
agree that insults based on "race" (social construct) should be
prohibited in general? And I mean, regardless of the "race" in
question?

And do you propose an alternative wording or do you just want to see
the whole part (that you quoted) removed? I mean, in order to prohibit
insults or vilifications based on "race" or "ethnicity".

Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 8. Apr. 2022 um 19:38 Uhr schrieb Anasuya Sengupta
:
>
> Tl;dr Urgent need to address the note denying race and ethnicity as 
> “meaningful distinctions among people” in the Universal Code of Conduct 
> (UCoC). The current wording is highly problematic and can result in endorsing 
> systemic and individual discrimination and violence on the basis of race and 
> ethnicity, rather than preventing it.
>
>
> Dear Wikimedians,
>
>
> We are writing this letter as the Whose Knowledge? user group, both to 
> Wikimedia-l, as well as adding it to the talk page for the UCoC.[0] We 
> endorsed the UCoC in the community voting process because we are committed to 
> its principles and intentions (indeed, some of us have been expressly working 
> towards it within the movement for a very long time, in multiple ways).
>
>
> However, we continue to be deeply concerned about the current wording of a 
> specific note in the UCoC: under Section 3.1 about Harassment, the note under 
> Insults states that “The Wikimedia movement does not endorse "race" and 
> "ethnicity" as meaningful distinctions among people. Their inclusion here is 
> to mark that they are prohibited in use against others as the basis for 
> personal attacks." (emphasis ours)[1]
>
>
> This is both manifestly incorrect and entirely against what we believe to be 
> the principles and intentions of the UCoC. Other Wikimedians have already 
> pointed out the deeply contradictory nature of this statement, including 
> WJBScribe on the talk page in May 2021,[2] but their comments appear not to 
> have been considered yet.
>
>
>
> By stating that "The Wikimedia movement does not endorse "race" and 
> "ethnicity" as meaningful distinctions among people," those responsible for 
> this text do not seem to fully grasp that:
>
>
> Even though the concept of ‘race’ as a biological distinction has been 
> refuted, ‘race’ as a social construct has been fully accepted by modern 
> scholars.[3] Even more importantly, we know historically that the concept of 
> ‘race’ was created and developed to serve and justify European colonialism in 
> its quest to enslave, marginalize, oppress, dominate and exterminate black, 
> brown and indigenous peoples in the lands they colonized. This form of 
> “racial science” was also responsible for the genocide of Europeans who would 
> otherwise be racialized as white outside of Europe, in particular during 
> World War II. Since then the concept of ‘race’ has been used to develop and 
> create some of the most wide ranging systems of power and privilege that 
> currently marginalize and oppress the majority of the world.
>
> By denying or not ‘endorsing’ the existence of race as a “meaningful 
> distinction among people”, the Wikimedia movement is not doing non-white 
> people any favors or helping to end racism or racist demonstrations, such as 
> insults based on race. As we’ve said before, being silent about racism 
> doesn’t make it go away. It only creates the perfect environment for the 
> continued existence of the deep structural powers and privileges that created 
> it in the first place.[4]
>
> Additionally, it is equally manifestly important to acknowledge the ways in 
> which the concept of ‘ethnicity’ is used to create “meaningful” - including 
> violently discriminatory - “distinctions” amongst people, including 
> Islamophobia and anti-Semitism as two obvious examples. It is equally obvious 
> that the concepts of ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ are not equivalent and/or 
> interchangeable, and cannot be used so.
>
> By including such a problematic statement, the UCoC contradicts the 
> movement’s commitment to knowledge equity, clearly stated and approved as 
> part of our Wikimedia Movement Strategy for 2030. The Universal Code of 
> Conduct of a movement that doesn’t “see” race or ethnicity or acknowledge the 
> historical and current effects of our racialized and ethnically-driven world, 
> cannot and will not be able to “focus our efforts on the knowledge and 
> communities that have been left out by structures of power and privilege.”[5]
>
> Leaving this wording in, also negates the ongoing efforts by individuals and 
> organizations across the movement who work with passion and commitment 
> towards knowledge equity in different ways, including through challenging 
> racist and ethnically discriminatory behavior in our projects.
>
>
> As long-time members of our movement, we assume good faith, and recognize 
> that this current wording may have happened through honest intentions gone 
> bad

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Sanctions against the Russian Federation; support for Ukrainian Wikimedians

[Ziko van Dijk]

By the way, Andy, should you not have seen this:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2022/03/01/wikimedia-foundation-calls-for-continued-access-to-free-and-open-knowledge-as-ukraine-crisis-continues/?fbclid=IwAR0k14v7WgnBC33QJOzucOQABp90amfHoXFiKzPgGftLhOXtmFRF3POFSVc
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Di., 1. März 2022 um 21:00 Uhr schrieb Samuel Klein :
>
> A great question!  Dear renvoy, antanana and others in Ukraine, please stay 
> safe.
> Not only, what is WMF doing, but what an we all do to help?
>
> Here's a potential Ru block in the works, and a request for better VPN 
> support for editors in the region.
> https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1498735210342633473
> https://twitter.com/runasand/status/1498742191719694345
>
> //S
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 8:26 AM Andy Mabbett  wrote:
>>
>> How do US, Geman/EU (for Wikidata) and other sanctions affect our
>> movement and its projects?
>>
>> How is WMF supporting Wikimedians in Ukraine? And - where sanctions
>> allow - supporting Wikimedians in Russia, who are trying to
>> disseminate facts and fight censorship and propaganda?
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>> ___
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>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Are we losing our readers?

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Indeed, there is not much we can do about the "snippets" aspect.
Besides that: I too worry about the general quality of Wikipedia
content, about minimum standards and whether we (always) meet such
standards.
Also, sometimes a Wikipedia article is much too long.
Would a "quality campaign" improve the attractiveness of Wikipedia for readers?
Kind regards
Ziko



Am So., 9. Jan. 2022 um 17:33 Uhr schrieb Yaroslav Blanter :
>
> Actually, I see an issue with snippets.
>
> Wikipedia articles have very variable quality. Some are reasonably good and 
> contain reliable information which is confirmed by reliable sources listed in 
> the article. But a lot have information which is promotional, POV, 
> unconfirmed, or outright false. In Wikipedia, we have mechanisms to indicate 
> that information is less reliable or more reliable (such as templates for 
> example). But snippets do not have this information. If you want to know for 
> example who was the US president after Jimmy Carter probably this question 
> can be answered by a snippet to everyone's satisfaction. But if you want to 
> know for example who is Elizabeth Holmes I doubt that information provided by 
> a snippet is a good replacement to the lede of the Wikipedia article (may be 
> this is not the best example but I hope you get what I want to say). It is 
> like snippets give you information in black and white, and on Wikipedia we 
> try to get it colored or at least shaded.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 2:41 PM Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Xavier and all,
>>
>> You say, "even the WMF tried to rebrand itself from «Wikimedia Foundation» 
>> to «Wikipedia Foundation» in a move that I consider a disbelief towards its 
>> own content legacies"
>>
>> It seems these rebranding efforts are in fact ongoing after all. According 
>> to Meta,[1] the fundraising emails sent to donors over the past few months 
>> have had Jimmy Wales signing off as follows:
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jimmy Wales
>>
>> Wikipedia Foundation
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fundraising&diff=next&oldid=22133512
>>
>> Email text linked in that edit:
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OAjBvUJh3cwuYDzpXRusX7HqOOJIwtTfLXgTMRsblAc/edit?usp=sharing
>> Archive link: https://archive.fo/J30ls
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 12:37 AM F. Xavier Dengra i Grau via Wikimedia-l 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi/Bona nit
>>>
>>> Specifically regarding the last emails about videos and new formats in 
>>> university students and their use of Wikipedia. A truth is that we already 
>>> had the chance to integrate better multimedia contents and formats via some 
>>> channels that he already had: our sister projects.
>>>
>>> Wikiversity, Wikibooks or Wikisource were in the past powerful and 
>>> attractive tools, valid to integrate knowledge in more flexible 
>>> (non-enciclopedic) forms until mid- last decade. Until they were abandoned 
>>> with no further tech investing. I remember having trained and mentorized 
>>> schools, universities and public institutions in Catalonia on Wikibooks 
>>> until 2015. It was seen as a really valid alternative by then.
>>>
>>> Since then WikiHow, Moodle, StuDocu, Notion or other participative niches 
>>> have progressed with some multimedia inclusions as better opportunities 
>>> than the WMF sister projects —even the WMF tried to rebrand itself from 
>>> «Wikimedia Foundation» to «Wikipedia Foundation» in a move that I consider 
>>> a disbelief towards its own content legacies. All this, despite many 
>>> small-sized community efforts and requests to claim for better integration 
>>> of multimedia features, that imho are the key to get these projects a bit 
>>> back to new success. I don’t think that these competitors offer amazing 
>>> features that we could not develop (apart from their cuter and cleaner 
>>> interfaces?).
>>>
>>> Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and therefore I find that is normal that has 
>>> some conceptual limitations in how it shapes and shows the content. You 
>>> rely in other niches for more specific stuff. However, this may be easily 
>>> tackled in Wikimedia if sister projects' potential and existing contents 
>>> would be really valued and connected.
>>>
>>> That way, if videos are one of the reasons why there is a loss of readers 
>>> (I agree that we should be able to see longers trend to unmask possible 
>>> covid peaks) on Wikipedia, we could still redirect/invite/seduce them to 
>>> alternatives that are still interactive, Open Access, participative & 
>>> transparent (i.e. Wikimedia wikis).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Xavier Dengra
>>>
>>>
>> ___
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Translating Wikipedia articles

[Ziko van Dijk]

Thanks, Vermont, for the explanation! It is indeed good to notice that
„good article“ is a specific term in English Wikipedia, but that other wiki
communities define it differently. E.g., German WP calls these articles
„articles worth to read“ (lesenswerte Artikel).
For the Klexikon, we consider all of our articles to be „good articles“
meaning that they are easy to read, well structured and well composed. (If
they aren‘t, they should be still in the draft name space.)
Kind regards,
Ziko

Chris Gates via Wikimedia-l  schrieb am
Fr. 17. Dez. 2021 um 16:31:

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Content on the Simple English Wikipedia is indeed very uneven. Though most
> of the project’s articles are stubs with not many issues, there are a lot
> of mid-size articles with sourcing and/or accuracy problems.
>
> And given the nature of Simple English, our good articles are not really
> written in the same way that a good article in another language would
> necessarily be written, meaning that machine translation would likely
> require a lot more copyediting than usual to bring it to an acceptable
> level. For specifics, see:
>
> https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_write_Simple_English_pages#Simple_sentence_structure
>
> Best regards,
> Vermont
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 03:55 Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
>> Hello James,
>> Interesting, what extra tools you have there.
>> Andreas, in theory Simple English Wikipedia would be great as an
>> international platform for the dissemination of articles. But in
>> reality I have the impression that the content of S.E.WP is very
>> uneven, the quality is very diverse.
>> Galder, nice to hear of these initiatives and what is all possible in
>> a joint action.
>> Kind regards
>> Ziko
>>
>> Am Do., 16. Dez. 2021 um 19:59 Uhr schrieb James Heilman <
>> jmh...@gmail.com>:
>> >
>> > Hey Ziko
>> >
>> > We have moved our medical translation efforts, such that MDWiki is our
>> starting point.
>> >
>> > https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:Translation_task_force
>> >
>> > 1) We have also encountered a reference template issue with CTX but
>> have built a work around. Our issue appears to relate to 
>> and the same reference being used multiple times. What we do is we simply
>> expand all the metadata for each instance of the reference before feeding
>> the text into CTX. And then we have a bot that shortens all the instances
>> of a reference back to one.
>> >
>> > 2) One of the benefits of using MDWiki is it allows us to keep
>> references in the lead and use language that is easier to understand, but
>> not be forced to use language as easy as Simple English. It has also
>> allowed us to automatically generate a leaderboard to track progress and
>> impact of our translation efforts. Additionally we only encourage people to
>> translate the leads as that is only that has been medically checked for
>> accuracy.
>> https://mdwiki.toolforge.org/Translation_Dashboard/leaderboard.php
>> >
>> > Best
>> > James
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 5:34 AM Andreas Kolbe 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, Ziko. Does anyone use Simple English Wikipedia as a basis for
>> their translations?
>> >>
>> >> I reckon DeepL – which is by far the best machine translation program
>> around, in the languages it covers – might do an even better job with those
>> (provided the Simple English article is itself of good quality, and worth
>> translating).
>> >>
>> >> Andreas
>> >> ___
>> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org,
>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > James Heilman
>> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>> > ___
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>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Translating Wikipedia articles

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello James,
Interesting, what extra tools you have there.
Andreas, in theory Simple English Wikipedia would be great as an
international platform for the dissemination of articles. But in
reality I have the impression that the content of S.E.WP is very
uneven, the quality is very diverse.
Galder, nice to hear of these initiatives and what is all possible in
a joint action.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 16. Dez. 2021 um 19:59 Uhr schrieb James Heilman :
>
> Hey Ziko
>
> We have moved our medical translation efforts, such that MDWiki is our 
> starting point.
>
> https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:Translation_task_force
>
> 1) We have also encountered a reference template issue with CTX but have 
> built a work around. Our issue appears to relate to  and the 
> same reference being used multiple times. What we do is we simply expand all 
> the metadata for each instance of the reference before feeding the text into 
> CTX. And then we have a bot that shortens all the instances of a reference 
> back to one.
>
> 2) One of the benefits of using MDWiki is it allows us to keep references in 
> the lead and use language that is easier to understand, but not be forced to 
> use language as easy as Simple English. It has also allowed us to 
> automatically generate a leaderboard to track progress and impact of our 
> translation efforts. Additionally we only encourage people to translate the 
> leads as that is only that has been medically checked for accuracy. 
> https://mdwiki.toolforge.org/Translation_Dashboard/leaderboard.php
>
> Best
> James
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 5:34 AM Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Ziko. Does anyone use Simple English Wikipedia as a basis for their 
>> translations?
>>
>> I reckon DeepL – which is by far the best machine translation program 
>> around, in the languages it covers – might do an even better job with those 
>> (provided the Simple English article is itself of good quality, and worth 
>> translating).
>>
>> Andreas
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
>
>
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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[Wikimedia-l] Re: Announcing an academic conference on Wikipedia translation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
I am sorry that I could not attend, but... the topic is super interesting,
and if recordings are available  - I would appreciate that very much. :-)
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 17. Dez. 2021 um 02:43 Uhr schrieb Takashi OTA <
supertakot+foundatio...@gmail.com>:

> Recordings are available but only for registrants and registration has
> been closed as far as I search…
>
> https://ctn.hkbu.edu.hk/wikiconf2021/
> https://ctn.hkbu.edu.hk/wikiconf/register/
>
> —Takot
>
> 2021年12月16日(木) 20:13 Željko Blaće :
>
>> Dear Mark and conference organizers - it totally slipped my mind that the
>> conference started yesterday and lasts till tomorrow late.
>> Would the recording of the conference be available in any shape and form?
>>
>> Best Z. Blace
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 12:32 PM Mark SHUTTLEWORTH 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Friends and Colleagues
>>>
>>> Many thanks for your messages and apologies for the slow response.
>>>
>>> I've discussed the situation with my colleagues and everyone agrees that
>>> we could certainly consider waiving the fee in the right circumstances, and
>>> we've updated the conference website (
>>> https://ctn.hkbu.edu.hk/wikiconf2021/) to reflect this. I haven't yet
>>> made a rapid grant request but I'll certainly follow that up, and I'm also
>>> wondering if that suggestion that Anne made earlier was still possibly on
>>> the table? Unfortunately it would be difficult to reschedule the conference
>>> at this stage to allow an application via the Conference Grants round
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Anyone with an interest in translation on Wikipedia would be very
>>> welcome to submit a paper proposal. The Call for Papers assumes that paper
>>> proposals will be research-based but I think it would be really excellent
>>> to have contributions from practitioners as well, and if we have enough we
>>> could for example dedicate a session to them. I also think the opportunity
>>> that the conference could potentially give for stimulating exchanges
>>> between practitioners and researchers would be very exciting.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2 Jun 2021 at 21:59, Oby Ezeilo  wrote:
>>>
 Hello Mark. Wonderful idea. I am Oby Ezeilo of The Igbo Wikimedia User
 Group in Nigeria, Just want to ask, if we are to join online do we need to
 pay the same amount?
 Regards

 On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 2:21 PM Chen Almog  wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> If you are willing to consider postponing the event just a bit, to
> January, you can also apply for the upcoming Conference Grants round. The
> deadline for submission will be in early September.
>
> I'm happy to help and answer any questions.
>
> Chen
>
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 16:16 Samuel Klein  wrote:
>
>> This looks lovely, thank you for organizing it Mark.
>> You can submit a rapid grant request
>>  for support
>> for online participation.
>>
>> This seems like something of interest to developers of Translate
>>  + Content
>> Translation  +
>> translatewiki , the
>> current WMF language & translation team
>> , and the
>> people working on Lexicographical data
>>  in
>> Wikidata :)  You might want to explicitly invite some of those networks.
>>
>> SJ
>>
>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:48 AM Mark SHUTTLEWORTH <
>> marks...@hkbu.edu.hk> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear friends and colleagues
>>>
>>> Further to my message at the end of last month and the queries that
>>> one or two of you made, I'd like to notify you of the following:
>>>
>>> 1. the conference will now be 100% online
>>> 2. the deadline for submission of proposals has been extended to
>>> 30th June 2021
>>>
>>> Full updated details and Call for Papers can be found on the
>>> conference website at https://ctn.hkbu.edu.hk/wikiconf2021/.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Mark Shuttleworth
>>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 at 12:13, Mark SHUTTLEWORTH <
>>> marks...@hkbu.edu.hk> wrote:
>>>
 Dear friends and colleagues

 Please permit me to publicise an academic conference that we're
 holding at Hong Kong Baptist University on 15-17 December 2021.

 The conference will be an ideal forum in which to discuss research
 methodologies, issues of collaborativity, theoretical frameworks that 
 have
 proven valuable for the study of Wikipedia translation, the use of
 Wikipedia in the translation classroom and by translation 
 professionals,
 and the nature of Wikipedia translation and h

[Wikimedia-l] Translating Wikipedia articles

[Ziko van Dijk]

m should be easy to use and allow an
easy re-use in other language versions.

5. How good an article was the final text?
Then, the English article needed some more clean-up: a line too much,
a missing heading (my fault) etc. But that's okay. I also changed the
English text by adding some information about the historical situation
described. English readers may have less background knowledge than
German readers, and German Wikipedia has some articles with additional
information that lack in English Wikipedia.

Conclusion: Yes, I recommend to use the content translation tool
(provided by the WMF) and automatic translation (provided, in this
case, by deepl.com). It saves time. But the issues I mentioned prevent
me from translating more articles.

Kind regards,
Ziko


-- 

Dr. Ziko van Dijk / zikovandijk.de
Autor von "Wikis und die Wikipedia verstehen"
"Niederlande & Deutschland": https://www.youtube.com/ZikovanDijk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Join the Africa Wiki Challenge Campaign!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Ruby,

Allow myself to use the occasion to emphasize how important the campaigns
for WikiAfrica/Africa Wiki are in order to provide pictures to the wikis
and to the world.

It is still difficult to find good pictures on Wikimedia Commons that
illustrate life in many African countries. I am grateful for the pictures
tourists upload, and sometimes the pictures from national or foreign
governments are quite usable. But there is something missing.

For our children‘s encyclopedia in German, Klexikon, it was a challenge to
find pictures with some diversity when we wrote the articles about non
European and non North American countries. And it still is, or: maybe there
are more suitable pictures on Commons but we don‘t always find them because
Commons as a platform itself... could be improved in a number of ways.

But in recent years, we have seen pictures made within campaigns such as
Wiki loves women or the thematic challenges about work or transport in
Africa. Step by step, our Klexikon articles can be essentially improved;
although, there is still a certain bias towards pittoresque churches, nice
beaches and other more „tourism related objects“.

Also, we have recently added a number of videos made by WikiTongues,
another great initiative.

https://klexikon.zum.de/wiki/Algerien
https://klexikon.zum.de/wiki/Äquatorialguinea
https://klexikon.zum.de/wiki/Liberia
https://klexikon.zum.de/wiki/Mosambik

By the way, when I am looking for good pictures on Wikipedia (German,
English, Dutch), I see that a lot of Wikipedia articles could need an
update too - with regard to the pictures that have been made in the, say,
last 10 years or even only 5 years.

(I noticed that Commons received a lot of good pictures about e.g. Barbados
and Angola within the last 5 years only.)

So I am looking forward to the new pictures from this campaign, and to see
how they will be used for display on the wikis.

Kind regards
Ziko

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon





Ruby D-Brown  schrieb am So. 2. Mai 2021 um 10:38:

> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> We are happy to announce the maiden edition of the Africa Wiki Challenge,
> a writing contest that calls on all Africans, people of African descent,
> people that identify with the continent or any one with an interest in
> Africa to contribute content about the many things that make up the true
> and rich identity of the continent (its rich and colourful cultures,
> history, landmarks, education, cities, rivers, lakes, food, vegetation,
> etc.) from 23rd May to 30th June 2021.[1] The campaign seeks to project
> stories of Africa, project its identity and help reduce the content gap
> about the continent on the web.[2]
>
> Each year, we will select a theme to guide users on what to contribute to
> as part of the campaign. This year,  we have selected the theme “Landmarks
> in Africa”.[3] The aim is to document all landmarks that cover
> historical, cultural, geographical and places of key significance to a
> country or the continent. These include but not limited to;
>
>-
>
>Monuments - Statues, Memorials, Historic buildings, Archaeological
>sites
>-
>
>National Demarcations - Districts, Municipalities, Metropolitan,
>Regions, States, etc.
>-
>
>Geographical Endowments - Mountains, Valleys, Forests, Waterfalls,
>Wildlife, Beach, etc.
>-
>
>Infrastructural Developments - Roads, Hospitals, Churches, Mosques,
>Schools, Rails, Water parks, Hotels, Theme parks, etc.
>
> Individuals or affiliates are welcome to  participate or support the
> project. You can participate in the competition by writing new articles or
> improving existing articles in the destubathon contest.[4] Visit our
> participate page for more information about how to join the competition.[5]
> Do you want to organise an activity in your group/country/region? Check out
> our organizers page or organizers guide for more information.[6][7]
>
> There will be virtual office hours prior to the start and during the
> campaign.[8] These office hours are opportunities to learn more about the
> campaign, ask questions, or receive support.
>
> Kindly send questions, suggestions, comments or concerns to
> i...@ofwafrica.org or visit the campaign page on meta or on our
> website.[9]
>
>
> Ruby Damenshie-Brown
>
> Administrative Executive
>
> Open Foundation West Africa
>
>
> [1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Africa_Wiki_Challenge
>
> [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjD7DqepQdg
>
> [3 ]- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2LDKzenfc4
>
> [4] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Africa_Wiki_Challenge/Destubathon
>
> [5] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Africa_Wiki_Challenge/Participate
>
> [6] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Africa_Wiki_Challenge/Organize
>
> [7] -
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Organisers_Guide_for_AWC.pdf
>
> [8] -
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Africa_Wiki_Challenge/Participate#Join_our_Virtual_Office_Hours
>
> [9] - http://awc.ofwafrica.or

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Recognition of the Arabic Wikimedians User Group

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Mehman,

Congratulations to this big step, I wish you all the best for the group!

Recently, at the Open Meeting of the Wikipedia & Education UG we had
Mossab Banat as our guest who reported about his experiences in
Jordan. It was another piece in the mosaic for me, to learn about this
huge part of the world.

Kind regards,
Ziko

Am Mi., 7. Apr. 2021 um 07:41 Uhr schrieb Rajeeb :
>
> Thanks Mehman for the update. I would like to congratulate everyone of  
> Arabic Wikimedians User Group.
>
> Namaste,
> Rajeeb.
>
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 at 03:41, Mehman Ibragimov  
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized 
>> [1] Arabic Wikimedians User Group [2] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group 
>> aims to simplify resource sharing and skill development among Arabic 
>> speaking community in order to strengthen and empower Arabic speaking 
>> Wikimedians, and to promote Wikimedia projects around the world, 
>> particularly in the MENA region.
>>
>> Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mehman Ibragimov
>> Vice-Chair, Affiliations Committee
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_of_Arabic_Wikimedians_User_Group
>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Arabic_Wikimedians_User_Group
>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Open Meeting of the Wikipedia & Education User Group - you are invited!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear friends of free knowledge and education,

A reminder: our Open Meeting is going to start in for about 2 hours. I
am looking forward to see you.

Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 19. März 2021 um 23:24 Uhr schrieb Ziko van Dijk :
>
> Dear friends of free knowledge and education,
>
> On Tuesday, March 30th 2021, we will have our next Open Meeting!
> Please feel welcome to join us at 4:00pm UTC.
> See for your own timezone: https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1617120044
>
> This is the link to the meeting room:
> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87586733540?pwd=SVp0YmZrTEtlWWxxT3Y2UjZxNnFkZz09
>
> We will discuss the shutdown of the WMF's Outreach Wiki and other topics.
>
> Our special guest will be Mossab Banat who will talk about content in
> Arab language. He is a passionate Wikipedian, physician and Wikipedia
> Education Program team leader at Hashemite University in Jordan. He is
> an editor and admin at Arabic Wikipedia. He also a board member at
> Wikimedia medicine and associate editor at wikijournal of Medicine. He
> founded a wiki club under the name of Digital Arabic Content Club at
> the same university. Currently mossab works as Teaching and Research
> Assistant at the Hashemite and as representative of graduate students
> at the University council.
>
> I myself will present a plan for a discussion on ethical questions.
> When we use wikis for educational goals, we have not only to follow
> the rules of the wiki (or an institution we work with). We want to
> make sure that no harm is done - to the wiki or to the learners or
> others involved. We want to give educators and others guidelines or
> recommendations on how to deal with ethical questions and how to avoid
> problems.
>
> So, we hope for a large crowd at our meeting which will last for one
> hour and a half.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Ziko van Dijk
> secretary,
> Wikipedia & Education User Group (EduWiki UG)
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Group

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[Wikimedia-l] Open Meeting of the Wikipedia & Education User Group - you are invited!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear friends of free knowledge and education,

On Tuesday, March 30th 2021, we will have our next Open Meeting!
Please feel welcome to join us at 4:00pm UTC.
See for your own timezone: https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1617120044

This is the link to the meeting room:
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87586733540?pwd=SVp0YmZrTEtlWWxxT3Y2UjZxNnFkZz09

We will discuss the shutdown of the WMF's Outreach Wiki and other topics.

Our special guest will be Mossab Banat who will talk about content in
Arab language. He is a passionate Wikipedian, physician and Wikipedia
Education Program team leader at Hashemite University in Jordan. He is
an editor and admin at Arabic Wikipedia. He also a board member at
Wikimedia medicine and associate editor at wikijournal of Medicine. He
founded a wiki club under the name of Digital Arabic Content Club at
the same university. Currently mossab works as Teaching and Research
Assistant at the Hashemite and as representative of graduate students
at the University council.

I myself will present a plan for a discussion on ethical questions.
When we use wikis for educational goals, we have not only to follow
the rules of the wiki (or an institution we work with). We want to
make sure that no harm is done - to the wiki or to the learners or
others involved. We want to give educators and others guidelines or
recommendations on how to deal with ethical questions and how to avoid
problems.

So, we hope for a large crowd at our meeting which will last for one
hour and a half.

Kind regards,

Ziko van Dijk
secretary,
Wikipedia & Education User Group (EduWiki UG)

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_%26_Education_User_Group

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Board Ratification of Universal Code of Conduct

[Ziko van Dijk]

Anne/Risker:
> I've never been convinced that including a mixture of required, forbidden, 
> and aspirational standards all in one document is a good idea, and I 
> personally struggle to see how including essentially unenforceable aspects of 
> the UCoC will do anything other than weaken the effectiveness of rest of the 
> document.


Dear Risker,

This is exactly my concern about the UCoC. Thank you for your words,
which, as usually, point to the essence of the subject.

Someone who tries to achieve too much, will finally achieve nothing.
In parts, the document reads like the job description for a paid
social media manager, not like a basic guideline for volunteers who
decide themselves how much time they want or can to invest in their
hobby.

On the other hand, I do agree that the owner of a wiki has a
responsibility to provide basic rules, and I do regret that the global
community did not create such a code itself. It did not happen in ...
20 years!

We will see how this all will turn out in practice. Even if you can,
theoretically, get banned for not helping a (problematic) newbie, we
hope that the enforcers will know how to wisely use the new
instrument. The acceptance within the community will depend more on
that than on the exact content or wording.

Kind regards
Ziko




Am Mi., 3. Feb. 2021 um 03:34 Uhr schrieb Risker :
>
> While I often agree with you, Yair Rand, in this case I think you're 
> mistaken.  Aside from the long-ago "community vote" on licensing (which was 
> pretty much required based on the prior licensing scheme), every 
> Wikimedia-wide policy has been authorized by the WMF Board of Trustees.  That 
> includes the terms of use and the privacy policy.  As the technical owners of 
> the infrastructure, the WMF Board does have the right (if not the 
> responsibility) to identify the manner in which the websites it supports and 
> hosts can be used, and I think this principle is actually pretty widely held, 
> at least in the abstract (i.e., hosting organizations can and should apply 
> standards on the services they host). In every policy-related case that I 
> have reviewed going back to the very earliest days, there has been at least 
> some level of community discussion, and there have always been detractors of 
> every policy the Board has approved; that has not made the policies either 
> invalid or unworkable.
>
> I've never been convinced that including a mixture of required, forbidden, 
> and aspirational standards all in one document is a good idea, and I 
> personally struggle to see how including essentially unenforceable aspects of 
> the UCoC will do anything other than weaken the effectiveness of rest of the 
> document.  For example, I cannot imagine anyone being sanctioned in any way 
> for "failure to thank" or "failure to mentor", although both of these are 
> considered expectations in the "Civility" section; and one thing that a 
> Uniform Code of Conduct would logically have is a uniform enforcement scheme.
>
> Nonetheless, I do believe that it is within the Board's scope and 
> responsibility to approve this and other global policies designed to protect 
> the WMF, the projects, the users of the websites, and the content 
> managers/editors/etc (what we often call "the community").
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 17:28, Yair Rand  wrote:
>>
>> The community has not approved the WMF's UCoC. It is not a Wikimedia policy, 
>> it is not binding, it has no authority. The WMF does not control the 
>> Wikimedia projects, and has no jurisdiction in this area.
>>
>> The community rejected this over and over again. It is harmful that the 
>> Board is pretending they can do this unilaterally.
>>
>> -- Yair Rand
>>
>> ‫בתאריך יום ג׳, 2 בפבר׳ 2021 ב-6:59 מאת ‪María Sefidari‬‏ 
>> <‪ma...@wikimedia.org‬‏>:‬
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I’m pleased to announce that the Board of Trustees has unanimously approved 
>>> a Universal Code of Conduct for the Wikimedia projects and movement.[1]  A 
>>> Universal Code of Conduct was one of the final recommendations of the 
>>> Movement Strategy 2030 process - a multi-year, participatory community 
>>> effort to define the future of our movement. The final Universal Code of 
>>> Conduct seeks to address disparities in conduct policies across our 
>>> hundreds of projects and communities, by creating a binding minimum set of 
>>> standards for conduct on the Wikimedia projects that directly address many 
>>> of the challenges that contributors face.
>>>
>>> The Board is deeply grateful to the communities who have grappled with 
>>> these challenging topics. Over the past six months, communities around the 
>>> world have participated in conversations and consultations to help build 
>>> this code collectively, including local discussions in 19 languages, 
>>> surveys, discussions on Meta, and policy drafting by a committee of 
>>> volunteers and staff. The document presented to us reflects a significant 
>>> investment of 

[Wikimedia-l] About a Global Council

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Following Chris' example, I have been bold and created a short
proposal for a Global Council.

You can find it on this page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ziko/Global_Council_proposal

Of course, you are very welcome to comment on the talk page, and you
are very welcome to correct my poor English. :-)

Kind regards - and happy new year,
Ziko

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedian of the Year 2020 livestream event - 15 October

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
The chat function on YouTube is turned off, I don't know whether that
is by purpose or by accident.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 15. Okt. 2020 um 16:31 Uhr schrieb Chris Koerner
:
>
> Hello all,
> Just a reminder that this event happens in about an hour and a half
> from now. I hope you can join us!
>
> Greetings,
>
> The Wikimedia Foundation would like to invite you to attend a
> livestream event with Wikimedia Foundation CEO Katherine Maher and
> Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales to announce the 2020 Wikimedian of the
> Year.
>
> Learn more about the event on Diff.
>
> https://diff.wikimedia.org/2020/10/01/coming-soon-the-2020-wikimedian-of-the-year-live-event/
>
>
> Yours,
> Chris Koerner (he/him)
> Community Relations Specialist
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Clinic #009 digest (Abstract Wikipedia); #010 today at 13:00 UTC

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
I don't know whether I am the only one with this problem, but when I
tried to enter the room, my computer crashed. It happened with three
different browsers.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Di., 15. Sept. 2020 um 10:58 Uhr schrieb Asaf Bartov :
>
> Dear Wikimedians,
>
> I have posted the digest for Wikimedia Clinic #009. [1]
>
> The topics discussed were:
>
> * Abstract Wikipedia
> * Translation of modules
> * Feedback on Abstract Wikipedia in various existing communities
>
> I encourage those of you interested in any of the above topics to read the
> digest. [1]
>
> Today (Sep 15th) at 13:00 UTC we will be hosting Wikimedia Clinic #010,
> with the scheduled segment again being Denny Vrandečić introducing Abstract
> Wikipedia (this time in an Asia-friendly time zone).
>
> As always, beyond this scheduled segment, there will be time to bring up
> any Wikimedia-related questions or topics other call attendees are
> interested in.
>
> The link to the call is:
> https://meet.google.com/dsd-rypz-xjf
>
> Cheers,
>
>A.
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Clinics/009
>
> Asaf Bartov (he/him/his)
>
> Senior Program Officer, Emerging Wikimedia Communities
>
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A Universal Code of Conduct draft for review

[Ziko van Dijk]

Am Fr., 11. Sept. 2020 um 08:07 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Ikuta
:
>
> Is there some context that makes this much worse than it seems, or do I have 
> a deeply flawed understanding of civility?

Well, are you open to consider the possibility that the latter might
theoretically be the case, at least partially?
Kind regards
Ziko



>
>a.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
All the best to the people involved, it is an important endeavour.
Of course, we are all curious about results.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 30. Juli 2020 um 19:49 Uhr schrieb Christel Steigenberger
:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>
> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
> qualified pool of applicants.
>
> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>
> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
> 
> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
>  [2]. Please
> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
> draft review period starting from August 24.
>
> Best regards,
> Christel
>
>   [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>
> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>
> Trust and Safety Specialist
>
> Wikimedia Foundation 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New essay on the ambiguity of NC licenses

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
Thank you for the link, Erik, I am going to read Pete Forsyth‘s text
carefully. My thinking about the module was influenced by some WMD
publications, by Till Kreutzer and also this one:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Free_Knowledge_thanks_to_Creative_Commons_Licenses.pdf
So I learned about the problems of the module. In general I find it most
unfortunate when a reuser has to evaluate a larger work for its elements
and its different licenses - often you do not only reuse one monolithic
piece but something consisting of smaller elements, or a larger group of
elements (e.g. dozens of pictures about a topic).
The more I was surprised when in the Strategy 2030 discussions and then
recommendations the modules ND and NC were called necessary for the needs
of the Global South. Though I am not a absolute or ideological opponent of
any module, I wondered about the reasons and I never got an answer. In the
meanwhile, the modules disappeared from the recommendations, and that is
just good so.
So the problem of the NC module remains that many who apply it are not
always conscious about undesired consequences,  while some who apply it use
the module very consciously for a specific reason - e.g. in a hybrid model,
to distribute content but not to share it, to reserve commercial use
exclusively for oneself. I do not want to judge about this intention, but I
imagine that it can become problematic when your goal is to build a
knowledge *commons*.
Kind regards
Ziko





Benjamin Lees  schrieb am So. 12. Juli 2020 um 09:31:

> On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 9:20 PM Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Are we really sure he would have done something in any case if we did not
> > provide such options?
> >
>
> It's pretty hard to be sure about the hypothetical behavior of
> individuals.  Undoubtedly, as you say, there are some people who are *only*
> willing to submit material to us if it is NC, and thus we currently lose
> out on material from them.  Undoubtedly, as Erik says, there are also some
> people who submit material to us under a free license but would choose an
> NC license if it were available, and thus we currently gain the benefit of
> their work being freely licensed, rather than NC.  I suspect the latter
> pool is far larger than the former.
>
> When the choice is truly between a particular non-free image and not having
> any image, fair use (for projects with fair use policies) already allows us
> to use that image.  In other cases, it may be that no free image is
> available right now, but someone can go out and take one.  There would be
> much less incentive to do so if we were already using an NC image, so such
> stopgaps would likely become permanent.
>
> Of course, there will be attractive edge cases where we can fairly
> confidently say "the choice is NC or nothing".  But we cannot be ruled by
> edge cases; we must weigh them against the costs of complexity, confusion,
> and unfairness that we would be creating for ourselves (to say nothing of
> the additional headache we would create for reusers).
>
> Emufarmers
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] June 4 1800 Maggie Dennis office hour (with a twist)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Thanks for the link, Ciell, I easily get confused about time zones.
I am looking forward to attend on June 4th, if it is possible for me.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 29. Mai 2020 um 20:20 Uhr schrieb Ciell Wikipedia <
ciell.wikipe...@gmail.com>:

> This will be very interesting, thank you Maggie.
> (To check your local time for this office hour: click here
> <
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Maggie+Dennis+office+hour+%28with+a+twist%29&iso=20200604T18&p1=1440&ah=1
> >)
>
>
> Vriendelijke groet,
> Ciell
>
>
> Op do 28 mei 2020 om 14:03 schreef Maggie Dennis :
>
> > Hello, all.
> >
> > With the Board’s recent statement, this seems like a good time to launch
> > the quarterly office hours I’ve been wanting to create for people who
> want
> > to talk to me about issues involving “community resilience and
> > sustainability,” including the work of Trust & Safety, whom I oversee.
> > (after months of wanting to do this I’ve come to realize that I will
> always
> > be "too busy" to feel like it's the perfect time for this. So I’m going
> to
> > do it now anyway!)
> >
> > There’ve been requests to make office hours more personal, so I will
> host a
> > Zoom hangout where people can join me, but I'll also take questions from
> > Telegram and IRC.[1] I know that finding an hour that works for everybody
> > is not going to happen, and I know from past office hours I’ve been
> > involved in that I may get far more questions than I can answer (or,
> > contrarily, nothing at all :)). Nevertheless, I will do my best to answer
> > questions posed to me in that hour by Wikimedians in good standing (not
> > Foundation or community banned) and to follow up in writing with any I
> > don’t have time for over the next few days or week or so, time allowing.
> I
> > might aggregate similar questions into a kind of FAQ. We’ll publish
> notes,
> > anonymizing those who’ve asked questions, after.
> >
> > I do, however, have the following caveats:
> >
> >-
> >
> >I can’t and won’t discuss specific Trust & Safety cases. Instead, I
> can
> >discuss Trust & Safety protocols and practices and approaches as well
> as
> >some of the mistakes we’ve made, some of the things I’m proud of, and
> > some
> >of the things we’re hoping to do.
> >-
> >
> >I will not respond to comments or questions that are disrespectful to
> >me, to my colleagues, or to anyone in our communities. I can talk
> > civilly
> >about our work even if you disagree with me or I disagree with you. I
> > won’t
> >compromise on this.
> >
> >
> > I’m not sure if I will stick with Zoom as the way I do office hours
> > forever, but I am responding to some requests for spoken interaction
> while
> > also trying to provide text options for those who prefer. I admit to
> being
> > a little camera shy myself, so this is a challenge for me! If I embarrass
> > myself too badly, I may retreat to the safety of text in future.
> >
> > I was hoping to have the Zoom link already, but while that’s being
> > expedited by our office technology team, I don’t have it yet. I wanted to
> > give interested people notice as soon as I knew the time. I’ll follow up
> > with links again at least two hours in advance.
> >
> > The meeting will be on June 4th at 1800 UTC.
> >
> > I hope to see you there.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Maggie
> >
> > [1] Zoom link; Telegram link:
> https://t.me/joinchat/DOlGIB1FRLUWqW9iB3qfTQ
> > ;
> > directions for participating in IRC:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours#How_to_participate
> >
> > --
> > Maggie Dennis
> > Vice President, Community Resilience & Sustainability
> > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] An encyclopedia must be conservative (?)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello people, thanks for the reactions!

I actually did not mean conservative in a strict political sense, and I am
a big fan of Reagle's book. It seems to me
that some people in the movement identify strongly with the (political)
term "progressive", and, depending on their personal
circumstances, that can be very understandable. The risk is that their
thinking about WP, WM and knowledge is very much
predetermined by these political views.

On the other hand, I see the risk that some other members of the movement
think that they - and the movement - are
automatically "modern" because they use wikis. With this attitude they may
not see much need for change.

Allow me some comments between the - very interesting - lines. See below

Kind regards
Ziko


Am Fr., 29. Mai 2020 um 09:43 Uhr schrieb Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il>:

> Aspect1: Fact-checking, trust, and reliability
> In non-wiki encyclopedias the writers
> are selected by the publisher: the publisher trusts the writers, and the
> readers trust the publisher's brand.  [...] The Wikpiedia attitude
> to sources, known as "Verifiability" in the English Wikipedia, solidified
> around 2005. It makes a lot of sense for a wiki encyclopedia, and it is one
> of our cornerstones, at least in the larger languages. (The details of the
> policy in each language may be different, but the general idea is the same.
> If it's significantly different in your language, please tell me.)
>

Indeed, cornerstone is a great word here. We don't check the contributors
as persons,
therefore we have to externalize the truth-question. So what does a
co-contributor check when seeing
the edit of a contributor? Not whether the contributor has thematic or
scientific competences but only whether she
has "publishing" or wirting competences - meaning, whether she is capable
of selecting good literature, using it
and writing accordingly an unpersonal encyclopedic text.

Within the wiki, it would be difficult to check whether she has scientific
competences. But it is possible to
check within the wiki whether she has writing competences, because we see
these writing competences in her previous
edits. So in Wikipedia, it works that we only care for the "wiki identity"
and "wiki status" of a contributor.

By the way, it would be an interesting research question: are there
Wikipedias that significantly differ from this cornerstone
(and other cornerstones)? In my own comparison between WP in EN, DE, NL, AF
and FY I did not find such a difference.


no access to academic publishing? Some people propose relaxing the demand
> for external reliable source for such topics, and while I'm totally on
> board with the social justice aspect of this attitude, it doesn't suggest a
> solution to the trust problem: some people will use it to enrich Wikipedia
> with information that can't be found elsewhere, but some people may abuse
> it to add made up stuff.
>

Yes, indeed. My thought was: if we allow sources of probably lesser
quality, e.g.
"grey literature" for marginalized people as an article topic, what would
that mean? That we
find it okay that a Wikipedia article about a woman is less reliable than
an article about a man?



> I have a proposed solution for this problem, and although some people would
> disagree, I call it conservative: Keep the demand for verifiability, and
> help people who have been historically disadvantaged get access to trusted
> academic institutions and conduct and publish their research outside of
> Wikipedia first.
>

Interesting. Some might ask whether this is a task of the Wikimedia
movement. (It all would depend on suitable partners and what the
role of the movement would be.)

If we see there a tunnel like this: reality - primary sources - secondary
sources - tertiary sources, then the
solution would not be at the final stage (tertiary source = Wikipedia and
its rules), but earlier, at the stage secondary sources
where there is a social filter.



> Aspect 2: Technology
> reasonably modern design principles and implementations. We are outdated in
> some ways: [...] We shouldn't be *too* progressive, though [...]
>
Talk pages are a particularly curious kind of disaster. Many Wikipedians
> tend to be very conservative about them and don't want any technology
> changes in them, but talk pages are not a continuation of any previous
> tradition of encyclopedic writing or of Internet culture—they are
> Wikipedia's own invention.


Good point, Amir. This is a dimension I have not looked at very thoroughly
in my research.
It blends in with the general question how software is interconnected to
content and to
the behaviour of the contributors. Maybe the current state of the software
used has for
some Wikipedians the function of a cultural marker or element of
self-identity.


> Aspect 3: Presentation style

[...]

> Like the bold font, it is also a typographic tradition. It
> has gotten out of hand in Wikipedia thanks to otherwise good things like
> the diversi

[Wikimedia-l] An encyclopedia must be conservative (?)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear fellows,

Some time ago, Joseph Reagle wrote that an encyclopedia must be
progressive. In my personal view, something "progressive" sounds to me
intuitively more sympathetic than something "conservative". But of course,
these are only two words loaden with meaning, and reality is always more
complex.

It seems to me that many Wikipedians or Wikimedians think of themselves as
being progressive and modern. Our wikis are a tribute to science and
enlightenment. Spontaneity and a laissez-faire-attitude are held in high
regard; "productive chaos" and "anarchy" are typical for wikis.

When I had a closer look at our values and ideas, I got the impression that
the opposite is true. Many attitudes and ideals sound to me more like
bureaucracy and traditionalism:
* being thorough, with regard to content and writing about it
* community spirit
* treating everyone equally without regard of the person (the highest ideal
of the Prussian civil servant)
* individual initiative
* reliability

What do you think? Is this just my personal or national background, or has
Wikipedia been build up on a different basis than we usually tell ourselves
and others?

Kind regards
Ziko
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Alessandro,
Thank you for your post and its insight. I recognized the same with me: I
only make use of Wikimedia Commons in lessons if I have enough time. Also I
would introduce it only to students with a solid knowledge of English.


Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l 
schrieb am Mo. 18. Mai 2020 um 13:08:

> In the end, it's more like inducing order from other projects than caring
> about the order on Commons because there clearly can't be with people
> acting the way they do.


This is a great observation! And this phenomenon contributes to the
on-going chaos, to the work-around-culture you need to adapt to if you want
to make use of Wikimedia Commons. :-(

Kind regards
Ziko




They are also not caring for it: if you spend your time starting
> unnecessary deletion procedures instead of cleaning up categories or
> description, you obviously have your priority, so we also have ours.
>

> About the main page, we need to focus more on media files IMHO, and of
> course search is complicated but I am sure metadata can improve it.
>
> A.
> Il lunedì 18 maggio 2020, 11:33:46 CEST, Robert Myers <
> robert.my...@wikimedia.org.au> ha scritto:
>
>  Well some people do, but it is when they get trolled by other contributors
> and/or overzealous Admin comes along and deletes the file. They quickly
> lose interest, in turn telling other people not to bother.
>
> I just had another lot of photographs tagged by a troll, in which an Admin
> deletes (
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=File:Rachel_Priest_after_the_Sydney_Thunder_vs_Adelaide_Strikers_WBBL_game_at_Robertson_Oval.jpg
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=File:Abandoned_farm_house_in_Hillgrove_01.jpg
> ).
> These have been on Commons for two + years, using the same camera gear I
> have used over the years. If it is enough for me to give up on the project,
> it would be the same for any other user but for a newbie it is something
> that would make me run for the hills (depart quickly as possible)!
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 1:07 PM Benjamin Ikuta 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Anecdotally, it seems people sometimes don't upload their photos to
> > Commons because they don't realize that the scope of Commons is much
> > broader than that of Wikipedia.
> >
> > Has there been, or should there be, any research into this, or why people
> > don't contribute more broadly?
> >
> > ~Benjamin
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
>
> Robert Myers
> Secretary - Wikimedia Australia
> M: +61 400 670 288
> robert.my...@wikimedia.org.au
> http://www.wikimedia.org.au
>
> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
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> your support by membership or donations to keep the Wikimedia mission
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Commons

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
I would like to support Roland's and other's remarks that Wikimedia Commons
has some serious problems and needs improvement in many ways. Some of these
problems are very difficult to overcome, such as a better, multilingual
search because we don't have all the necessary meta data.
Other problems could be dealt with in a short time. For example, the main
page (or main pages, in the different languages) has too many items and
links. General and less general links; links to content by topic; links to
other Wikimedia wikis, links to mainpages in other languages. Some of this
is repeated in the left side bar. All together, also with general wiki
function links - I counted 291 links or things to click on!

My ideal would be a clean page
* with a short explanation what the site is or does,
* and then three, four or five big items to click on: for example, "search
content", "contribute content", "learn more".
Is it a realistic dream of me that we would see such a clean-up within the
next 5 or 50 years?
Kind regards
Ziko











Am So., 17. Mai 2020 um 17:25 Uhr schrieb Alessandro Marchetti via
Wikimedia-l :

>  "there are way less people maintaining it than it is needed" is naif
> summary of what is going on. IMHO. There are people maintaining it in a way
> that is counterproductive. You can always create an efficient workflow, if
> you want it.
>
> We don't need people that delete an image of a statue in the USA because
> of no:fop even if it is a small size in a big composition and than keep the
> other ones in the category that are in any case used on enwikipedia. We
> don't need people copying and pasting quickly motivations without even
> reading them confusing countries or scenarios, as it happened (they almost
> never apologize, of course, because they are so busy). We don't need people
> that when a deletion procedure is rejected keep insisting looking at the
> contribution of an user stressing them until they find something. We don't
> need people deleting low-resolution files that were few months short form
> entering the public domain, when in the same time they could have deleted
> 100 times more of useless images. We don't need people arguing to delete
> ancient images that couldn't be proved "not to be recent" against good
> faith.  We don't need people starting deletion procedure if an image is on
> line instead of simply asking the uploader.
>
> However, it's a fact that some active members of the community created
> over the years a system where such people are encouraged to act in such a
> rigid way and probably even believe that their behaviour is necessary.
> Given these circumstances, it is not the moral duty of the silent majority
> of users to deal with the consequences of such behaviour. They can go on
> and try to delete everything the way they do and they will also deal with
> the huge amount of backlog they create wasting the time of users. It's only
> fair to me that whoever keep encouraging such unefficient workflow should
> be the one to clean the mess.
> A.
>
>
>
>
>Il domenica 17 maggio 2020, 12:15:30 CEST, Yaroslav Blanter <
> ymb...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>  Concerning using Commons as a photo hosting, I have written a blog post
> earlier this year:
>
>
> https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/t/wikimedia-commons-as-private-photo-hosting/2866
>
> However, I can not see how it can become anything close to social media,
> nor do I think it should be. It already has a lot of garbage, and there are
> way less people maintaining it than it is needed. That it is one of the
> nastiest communities among all Wikimedia projects, with people being
> allowed to do things for which they would become instantly long-term
> blocked on other projects, does not help either
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 10:32 AM Tito Dutta  wrote:
>
> > This discussion, although started with a question "why don't people
> > contribute to Wikimedia Commons, now after actually the discussion above,
> > covers more topics. A few notes, observations and comments:
> > 1) I remember a major discussion took place somewhere on Wikimedia
> Commons
> > when one of the strategy2030 draft recommendations suggested uploading
> > non-free images on Wikimedia Commons. That discussion was also on the
> scope
> > of Wikimedia Commons. I wish I could recall where exactly it took place.
> > However, I am pretty sure that many of you have read or participated
> there.
> > Most probably there I first read the idea of "uncommon/uncommons" (or an
> > alternative version of Commons).
> > 2) Wikimedia Commons is most possibly/definitely less popular than
> > Wikipedia. I believe many editors start from Wikipedia and then move to
> > Wikimedia Commons. There is, of course, another reason, when someone
> > gradually becomes more experienced on Wikipedia, they learn they need to
> > spend some time on Wikimedia Commons for the article–photos they are
> > working on. I "personally" do "not" feel the solution of this

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Is the Wikimedia-movement apolitical?

[Ziko van Dijk]

I totally agree with you, Shlomi.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am So., 26. Apr. 2020 um 17:02 Uhr schrieb Shlomi Fish <
shlo...@shlomifish.org>:

> Hi Rebecca and all,
>
> On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 17:11:55 +0100
> "Rebecca O'Neill"  wrote:
>
> > Well said. Everything is political, and when the movement choses not to
> > speak out or state an opinion on something, then we are giving our
> support
> > to the status quo.
> >
> > Believing yourself to be apolitical is as much a fantasy as being
> > completely objective, it is inherently impossible.
> >
>
> While one likely cannot be completely objective, I believe that we should
> try
> to be as objective as possible, and not completely succumb to being
> subjective.
>
> I had written about it here:
>
> https://shlomif.livejournal.com/52439.html
>
> Similarly, while the WMF has some shared political stances due to its
> mission
> and objectives, it should try to avoid officially taking a stance on
> politically-tangential issues that are out of that scope and which have no
> consensus among its members, contributors and users. Otherwise, its
> effectiveness in accomplishing its mission may be reduced, and we may lose
> or
> alienate many members.
>
> Just my opinion,
>
> -- Shlomi
>
> --
>
> Shlomi Fish   https://www.shlomifish.org/
> https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Google-Discontinues-Services/
>
> Larry Wall *does* know all of Perl. However, he pretends to be wrong
> or misinformed, so people will underestimate him.
> — https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Larry-Wall/
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - https://shlom.in/reply
> .
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF political activism

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
this is about different things. One is an opinion about Earth Day, one is
an opinion about the organization behind a specific event, and one is an
opinion about whether the WMF should link to this specific event.
For example, I am not against protecting the climate. I might have some
criticism about certain aspects of "Fridays for Future". I would be
definitely against my "Association of Historians in Germany" linking in
such a way to "Fridays for Future".
Kind regards
Ziko





Am Fr., 24. Apr. 2020 um 22:27 Uhr schrieb Robert Fernandez <
wikigamal...@gmail.com>:

> FFS who is against Earth Day?   Every organization and company
> probably mentions it or observes it in some way.  Get over yourselves.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF political activism, yet again

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
I can confirm that I see the same also here in the Netherlands. Which is
strange, there are no general elections here before 2021...
An explanation about this link would be interesting.
Kind regards
Ziko






Am Mi., 22. Apr. 2020 um 22:50 Uhr schrieb Yair Rand :

> The WMF corporate site (wikimediafoundation.org) currently has a
> full-page ad with the text "We are watching Earth Day Live today. Will
> you?". This links to an external site with the text "Click here to sign on
> to the US Youth Climate Strike Coalition Earth Day Demands - From congress
> and the next president, we demand a People’s Bailout, a Green New Deal, and
> Land Back for Indigenous Peoples", and prompting readers to "Pledge to vote
> for our future" and to subscribe to "US Climate Strike".
>
> Everyone here already knows how unacceptable this is, and why, so I don't
> think this requires any further explanation. The WMF should immediately
> take this down, and make certain that this kind of thing can't happen
> again. They've failed yet again at preventing inappropriate
> political activism in WMF's communications, and must take serious action to
> fix this constant stream of terrible failures.
>
> -- Yair Rand
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Proposal towards a multilingual Wikipedia and a new Wikipedia project

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Denny,

Thank you for your well written piece with some very intriguing ideas. I
have read most of it, and I must confess that I have not fully understand
everything about keys and contractors. Maybe I am not exactly the target
group.

I found it very sympathetic to read your own scepticisms, and obviously we
both have read the same book by Umberto Eco. :-)

Single point of failure: I am not that worried about that, according to the
"many-eyball-principle".

Single language wiki: This seems to me the biggest problem if your new wiki
(wikis) is supposed to be a place where everybody can contribute,
regardless of the native language. You think that "detailed discussions and
debates" are less likely (in the beginning). Well, for any meaningful
participation, would'nt it be important that everybody can communicate with
everybody? Whether we would use one or several languages in the wiki, the
language problem would be a limitation of the collaboration.

By the way, I think that a big part of the negative attitude, that many
(German) Wikipedians have towards Wikidata, is based on language barriers.
Another reason is that Wikipedians have build up their own status within
Wikipedia, and when they come to Wikidata, they have to start from the
beginning to build up status. The same problems we would we with regard to
("normal") Wikipedia on the one hand, and Abstract Wikipedia and
Wikilambda, on the other hand, I guess? So these wikis would be in future
linked to each other very much, but the different communities might not go
along well.

Reducing knowledge diversity: I agree that that is not so much the problem,
as the Wikipedians will decide which content to take over and which not.
What I would like to see: That as a reader, I can get an article (e.g. "San
Francisco") in different versions: a long one, a short one, one interesting
for people who live in SF, etc. In general, more modularity than now would
be great.

"We must make sure that it does not become too hard to contribute": Yes,
that is a big problem (see above). I like the idea of "outsourcing" skills;
that the people of local Wikipedia can ask people on Abstract WP and
Wikilambda. You would need enough volunteers on AWP-WL to help; and you
would need at least some people on local WP who can communicate its wishes
to the helpers on AWP-WL. For very small WP communities, that would be an
enourmous challenge.

My personal approach would be the following, based on experiences with
German language encyclopedia for children, Klexikon. It would be great for
small Wikipedias to find a corpus of ca. 3000-5000 encyclopedic articles.
Well chosen by relevance for at least most parts of the world. In
easy-to-understand English, not too long, with a good strcuture, written in
a way that you can easily translate and adapt them for your own language.
(Many people will now say: "Simple English Wikipedia already exists", but I
think it is not there yet.)

Those 3000-5000 articles would be a wonderful encyclopedia already. The
local Wikipedians would enrich the content then with some hundred or
thousand articles of their own. In my experience, you do not need millions
of articles to fulfill the knowledge hunger of most readers.

I think that your "content translation framework" approach goes a little
bit into this direction. Part of the framework could be to make suggestions
about "localization". For example, the article about "Dogs" could have a
note saying: "After this paragraph, you could add some sentences with
regard to dogs in your own country/region."

Kind regards,
Ziko






















Am Di., 14. Apr. 2020 um 02:53 Uhr schrieb Denny Vrandečić <
vrande...@gmail.com>:

> As some of you know, I have been working on the idea of a multilingual
> Wikipedia for a few years now. Two other publications on this are here, I
> have bothered you with mails about it here previously too:
>
> https://research.google/pubs/pub48057/
>
> https://wikipedia20.pubpub.org/pub/vyf7ksah
>
> I've also been giving talks about the topic in several places about this
> idea, some of them have also been recorded:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzVA7YLwhTE
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLiJ6E9sG6U&list=PLQVG_tuf3Q2fji-CwqEDRJpZuf23wevrq&index=13
>
> I gathered some awesome feedback in those few years (also from some members
> of this list, thank you!), and I also implemented a few prototypes trying
> out the idea, learning a lot from that.
>
> All of this has helped to sharpen the idea and come up with a more concrete
> proposal. In short, the proposal is that we do a two-step approach: first,
> allow for capturing Wikipedia content in an abstract notation, and second,
> allow for creating functions that translate this abstract notation into
> natural language (For simplicity, I gave this two steps names, Abstract
> Wikipedia for step 1, and Wikilambda for step 2. I realize that both names
> are not perfect, but that is just one of the many things that we can figure
> o

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next steps on Wikimedia Space

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Quim,

Thank you for the information. It was not quite a surprise, as we did not
hear much of Space in the last time, and I must confess myself that I only
used it in the iniatial phase and somewhat later. I feel sorry for those
who invested time and energy in it.

I am interested in a report later, about what worked and what did not work,
and maybe why.

Kind regards,
Ziko





Am Di., 18. Feb. 2020 um 11:31 Uhr schrieb Quim Gil :

> Last year, the Wikimedia Foundation launched Wikimedia Space to experiment
> with new ways to connect volunteers, increase movement participation, and
> showcase community stories. While we remain committed to this important
> goal, based on lessons learned through the Space prototype, the Foundation
> has decided to close Discuss Space. The Space blog, which continues to fill
> a need to share news for the movement by the movement, will continue in a
> new home. Please continue to submit community-focused stories [1], so that
> we may share them with the movement.
>
> To learn more about the next steps, check the full announcement at
> https://space.wmflabs.org/2020/02/18/next-steps-on-wikimedia-space/
>
> We have learned a lot from this initiative and want to thank all Space
> users [2] for their time and contributions. We also invite everyone
> interested in documenting lessons learned and discussing next steps to join
> us in taking this effort even further, either at the About Wikimedia Space
> category in Discuss [3] or the Space talk page in Meta [4].
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Space/Editorial_guidelines#How_to_get_started
> [2] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/u?period=all
> [3] https://discuss-space.wmflabs.org/c/about-wikimedia-space/2
> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Space
>
> --
> Quim Gil (he/him)
> Senior Manager of Community Relations @ Wikimedia Foundation
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Qgil-WMF
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations and community conversations launching next week

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
I strongly agree with what Chris wrote.
In the Strategy discussions, I have experienced and witnessed several times
that defenders of the "strategy synthesis/recommendations" do not want to
talk about an issue. They say things like:
* "this feels like défa vu"
* "you are not constructive"
* "we must look forward, not backward"
* "we don't want to talk about details now, we leave that for later"
This kind of reactions do not contribute to an atmosphere in which I feel
that my concerns are taken seriously.
Kind regards
Ziko








Am Di., 4. Feb. 2020 um 08:57 Uhr schrieb Chris Keating <
chriskeatingw...@gmail.com>:

> >
> > Superprotect is now over five years old. Superprotect's removal is now
> over
> > four years old. It was a mistake, and it was explicitly acknowledged as
> > such: the then-ED of the WMF said it had "set up a precedent of
> > mistrust". Almost all of the people involved in it are no longer
> affiliated
> > with the Wikimedia Foundation, and in fact, plenty of the staff members
> at
> > the Wikimedia Foundation were hired *after* superprotect was removed.
> >
> > I don't think bringing up superprotect in this discussion is especially
> > relevant or helpful.
>
>
> I sort of want to agree with this, but actually I think it goes a bit
> deeper.
>
> If you ask questions about the relationship between the WMF and the
> community, sooner rather than later someone will talk about Superprotect.
> If you ask any of the 1,000 people who signed the petition against
> Superprotect, most of whom are still active one way or another, then
> Superprotect will probably be the first thing out of their mouths, even
> though it happened 6 years ago. It's sufficiently ingrained in peoples'
> minds that asking these people not to talk about Superprotect is like a
> British person asking someone from the USA not to talk about the Boston Tea
> Party.
>
> In part this is because people were very angry about the issue at the time,
> and that anger was dealt with very poorly at the time.
>
> In part it's because people perceive there is nothing to prevent an
> identical situation recurring. In some ways I think this perception is
> unfair, for all the reasons you mention. But it still exists, and in part
> it exists because of things the WMF has not done.  The Foundation's
> expectations about how it interacts with the community remain fairly
> unclear and fairly undocumented, from the Board level down. I recall there
> have been some written statements of how the WMF now handles product
> features, though I think this didn't come the ED or less the Board. I don't
> believe there was ever a written review publilshed of Superprotect, while
> there are written reviews and statements lessons learned from many other
> situations that had much less impact. In short, the WMF is not seen as
> having put the issue to bed in a way that results in everyone involved
> moving on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations released, join the conversation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Yes, thank you Andrew, that was actually what I was looking for. It is
simply very difficult e.g. to search for a sentence that somebody quoted
when the text is shattered over several pages and then with parts hidden as
"collapsable". (I do not blame or criticise somebody for that, it is just
that different ways to present texts have pros and cons.)
Kind regards,
Ziko

Am Mi., 22. Jan. 2020 um 10:05 Uhr schrieb Itzik - Wikimedia Israel <
it...@wikimedia.org.il>:

> Thank you, Andrew. These PDF files weren't there when I looked, but thanks
> for pointing that out.
>
>
>
> *Itzik Edri*
> Chairperson (volunteer)
> it...@wikimedia.org.il
> +972-54-5878078
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 7:47 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
>
> > There are PDF versions, which may not be easily spottable. They are the
> > bottom of the introduction page:
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> >
> > Core:
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Movement_Strategy_Recommendations_-_Core_document_in_English.pdf
> >
> > Extended:
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Movement_Strategy_Recommendations_Extended_doc_EN.pdf
> >
> > Cover note:
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Movement_Strategy_Recommendations_Cover_note_EN.pdf
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 3:14 AM Itzik - Wikimedia Israel <
> > it...@wikimedia.org.il> wrote:
> >
> > > A huge thank you to all the volunteers, staff and the core team who
> > > invested in this process unimaginable hours of work.
> > >
> > > Is there maybe a one document/pdf/printable version of the
> > recommendations?
> > > It is a long document which I personally want to read carefully and I
> > find
> > > it slightly complicated to read in the current wiki-structure.
> > >
> > >
> > > *Itzik Edri*
> > > Chairperson (volunteer)
> > > it...@wikimedia.org.il
> > > +972-54-5878078
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 6:07 AM Todd Allen 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Katherine,
> > > >
> > > > These are very disappointing. It does not seem like a bit of the
> > feedback
> > > > on earlier versions was taken into consideration at all. Can we
> expect
> > > > anything we say to matter this time around, or will we once again be
> > > > talking to the wall?
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 8:24 PM Katherine Maher 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I wanted to share some news with you: the first version of the
> > movement
> > > > > strategy recommendations document has been published on Meta [1].
> On
> > > > behalf
> > > > > of the movement strategy working groups and recommendation
> writers, I
> > > am
> > > > > honored to present them to you. We ask you to please take a moment
> to
> > > > read
> > > > > through, review, and comment.
> > > > >
> > > > > In 2017, we set about building the future we want, together. In
> 2020,
> > > > your
> > > > > fellow Wikimedians have written and shared a framework for how we
> can
> > > > bring
> > > > > to life our vision of becoming the essential support system of the
> > > > > ecosystem of free knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > == Review the recommendations ==
> > > > >
> > > > > These recommendations are the result of 18 months of in-depth
> > > discussions
> > > > > and consultation among global Wikimedia community members and
> > research
> > > > > into opportunities for our future. The volunteer working groups
> [2],
> > > > > writing teams [3] and strategy liaisons [4] have all invested a
> > > > significant
> > > > > amount of energy into this, and I want to wholeheartedly thank each
> > and
> > > > > every person who contributed to creating this work.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to encourage everyone to read this work. There are 13
> > > > > recommendations (condensed from 89), accompanied by an explanation
> of
> > > the
> > > > > principles [5] that underlie the recommendations, an outline of how
> > > these
> > > > > recommendations work together [6], as well as an overview of how
> the
> > > > > recommendations were produced and next steps [7].
> > > > >
> > > > > The core of this material is online in Arabic, English, French,
> > German,
> > > > > Hindi, Portuguese, and Spanish. We also have an overview available
> in
> > > > > Catalan, Dutch, Farsi, Hebrew, Polish, and Russian that offers a
> > > > condensed
> > > > > introduction to the recommendations material.
> > > > >
> > > > > == Share your feedback ==
> > > > >
> > > > > In order to produce a final document that is representative of and
> > > > relevant
> > > > > to the diverse project communities as well as groups and
> > organizations
> > > > that
> > > > > make up our movement, we are calling on everyone to review the
> > > > > recommendations and share their thoughts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Specifically, we ask you to look at what impact these
> recommendations
> > > > might
> > > > > have on you and your group or community’s context. Discussions ar

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations released, join the conversation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Anders,

Could you please explain which of the mails in this thread are problematic
in your opinion? I think that I made a factual statement in the most
neutral way.

Anders, your opinion is that the recommendations are „wonderful“. I want to
tolerate your opinion. But do you also tolerate other opinions? Or do you
think that opponents need a better „attitude“?

Kind regards,
Ziko


Anders Wennersten  schrieb am Di. 21. Jan. 2020
um 12:14:

> Sometimes I wonder if we really belong to the same movement or even live
> on the same planet.
>
> A wonderful work has been done with the recomendations, and the end
> result looks very fine, with only a few minor comments needed as far as
> I can see.
>
>   And I believe whatever we think of the endresult we should commend the
> people who have participated, both their commitment and quality of work.
>
> As a 8 hours-a- day contributor to a project, I know, as all my
> colleagues, the importance to have a positive tone in our
> communityinternal conversation and always be strong in good faith. And I
> meet that positive tone in my activities in the community and when I
> meet volunteers and  functionaries IRL. But in this list i find
> appalling negative entries as i find to  be in direct opposition to our
> movement values.
>
> So please, please use a better tone and attitude in this discussion of
> the recommendations
>
> Andersw
>
>
>
>
> Den 2020-01-21 kl. 11:49, skrev Fæ:
> > Ziko, we can vote on whatever we want, whenever we want.
> >
> > Us having a RFC on meta does not need the WMF to approve it or like it.
> An
> > openly run RFC could itself recommend a board resolution asking the
> > community appointed board members (you know, the legitimate ones that are
> > accountable to us) to reject or amend the 'recommendations' as the
> > community sees fit. The WMF board and their CEO know it is in their
> > interest to take on any firm community consensus rather than playing
> > political games to get around it.
> >
> > I suggest folks take some time out to re-review the recommendations and
> > wait for the dust to settle before deciding if we want to start a
> correctly
> > community-led process for voting on it.
> >
> > As others have expressed, I am not in the least bit inclined to give any
> > feedback on meta. It's a waste of volunteer time, as effective as
> shouting
> > out of your office window expecting to make the weather change.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Jan 2020 at 09:54, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> We now have the confirmation on a Meta Wiki talk page: the WMF is not
> going
> >> to let the communities vote on the recommendations.
> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations#Community_consensus
> >>
> >> Kind regards
> >> Ziko
> >>
> >> Am Di., 21. Jan. 2020 um 09:39 Uhr schrieb Yaroslav Blanter <
> >> ymb...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >>> We will be again talking to the wall. (Would be, I am not going to
> react
> >>> this time).
> >>>
> >>> Best
> >>> Yaroslav
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 5:06 AM Todd Allen 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Katherine,
> >>>>
> >>>> These are very disappointing. It does not seem like a bit of the
> >> feedback
> >>>> on earlier versions was taken into consideration at all. Can we expect
> >>>> anything we say to matter this time around, or will we once again be
> >>>> talking to the wall?
> >>>>
> >>>> Todd
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 8:24 PM Katherine Maher 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wanted to share some news with you: the first version of the
> >> movement
> >>>>> strategy recommendations document has been published on Meta [1]. On
> >>>> behalf
> >>>>> of the movement strategy working groups and recommendation writers, I
> >>> am
> >>>>> honored to present them to you. We ask you to please take a moment to
> >>>> read
> >>>>> through, review, and comment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In 2017, we set about building the future we want, together. In 2020,
> >>>> your
> >>>>> fellow Wikimedians have written and shared a 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Recommendations released, join the conversation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

We now have the confirmation on a Meta Wiki talk page: the WMF is not going
to let the communities vote on the recommendations.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations#Community_consensus

Kind regards
Ziko

Am Di., 21. Jan. 2020 um 09:39 Uhr schrieb Yaroslav Blanter <
ymb...@gmail.com>:

> We will be again talking to the wall. (Would be, I am not going to react
> this time).
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 5:06 AM Todd Allen  wrote:
>
> > Katherine,
> >
> > These are very disappointing. It does not seem like a bit of the feedback
> > on earlier versions was taken into consideration at all. Can we expect
> > anything we say to matter this time around, or will we once again be
> > talking to the wall?
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 8:24 PM Katherine Maher 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > I wanted to share some news with you: the first version of the movement
> > > strategy recommendations document has been published on Meta [1]. On
> > behalf
> > > of the movement strategy working groups and recommendation writers, I
> am
> > > honored to present them to you. We ask you to please take a moment to
> > read
> > > through, review, and comment.
> > >
> > > In 2017, we set about building the future we want, together. In 2020,
> > your
> > > fellow Wikimedians have written and shared a framework for how we can
> > bring
> > > to life our vision of becoming the essential support system of the
> > > ecosystem of free knowledge.
> > >
> > > == Review the recommendations ==
> > >
> > > These recommendations are the result of 18 months of in-depth
> discussions
> > > and consultation among global Wikimedia community members and research
> > > into opportunities for our future. The volunteer working groups [2],
> > > writing teams [3] and strategy liaisons [4] have all invested a
> > significant
> > > amount of energy into this, and I want to wholeheartedly thank each and
> > > every person who contributed to creating this work.
> > >
> > > I would like to encourage everyone to read this work. There are 13
> > > recommendations (condensed from 89), accompanied by an explanation of
> the
> > > principles [5] that underlie the recommendations, an outline of how
> these
> > > recommendations work together [6], as well as an overview of how the
> > > recommendations were produced and next steps [7].
> > >
> > > The core of this material is online in Arabic, English, French, German,
> > > Hindi, Portuguese, and Spanish. We also have an overview available in
> > > Catalan, Dutch, Farsi, Hebrew, Polish, and Russian that offers a
> > condensed
> > > introduction to the recommendations material.
> > >
> > > == Share your feedback ==
> > >
> > > In order to produce a final document that is representative of and
> > relevant
> > > to the diverse project communities as well as groups and organizations
> > that
> > > make up our movement, we are calling on everyone to review the
> > > recommendations and share their thoughts.
> > >
> > > Specifically, we ask you to look at what impact these recommendations
> > might
> > > have on you and your group or community’s context. Discussions are
> > > happening on-wiki in many languages, as well as in discussion groups on
> > > other, off0wiki platforms, and within movement groups and structures.
> > >
> > > This round of community conversations will run until the first week of
> > > March [8]. After this five-week period, the Core Team will publish a
> > > summary report of input from across affiliates, online communities, and
> > > other stakeholders for public review. [9] Your input will play a role
> as
> > > the recommendation writers finalize the strategy document, and move us
> > > towards discussions around implementation.
> > >
> > > You will find more information about the process in the FAQs [10], and
> > > please direct any additional questions or remarks to the respective
> meta
> > > pages.
> > >
> > > Our movement is the sum of its parts. Each member brings to it
> invaluable
> > > skills, expertise, and ideas to capture, collect, and share free
> > knowledge.
> > > And every single contribution made by every community member from the
> > > beginning has helped us grow into the global, diverse, and unique
> > movement
> > > we are today.
> > >
> > > I am honored to share this on behalf of everyone involved, and am
> looking
> > > forward to insights from across the movement over the next few weeks.
> > >
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> > > [2]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups
> > > [3]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People#Second_phase
> > > [4]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People/Community_Strategy_Li

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: New roles for working group members, synthesis underway, and more

[Ziko van Dijk]

Thank you for the update, Nicole.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 28. Nov. 2019 um 15:44 Uhr schrieb Philip Kopetzky <
philip.kopet...@gmail.com>:

> Yaroslav, the recommendations have always come with the caveat that the
> actual implementation depends on the communities implementing them
> themselves, adapting them to fit the needs of a specific community.
>
> On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 16:36, Yaroslav Blanter  wrote:
>
> > The recommendations must be first presented to the movement (and,
> > specifically, to the project communities) for approval, and only them
> > whatever will be approved, can be presented to the Board,
> >
> > The reverse sequence will likely result in outright rejection of
> > recommendations by the editing communities and further alienation WMF
> from
> > the communities.
> >
> > Best
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 5:20 PM Nicole Ebber 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I’m happy to share an overview of what’s been happening in movement
> > > strategy lately.
> > >
> > > == New roles and bringing the recommendations together ==
> > > From now until the end of the year, the focus will be on identifying
> > > the overlaps in the 89 recommendations produced by the nine thematic
> > > area working groups. The goal here is to create one synthesized set of
> > > recommendations and an accessible, digestible Movement Strategy
> > > document to be shared publicly in January.
> > >
> > > To do this, we asked working group members in October to let us know
> > > if they’d be interested in continuing to contribute to the Wikimedia
> > > 2030 Movement Strategy in one of the following roles: Writer,
> > > connector, or reviewer.[1]
> > >
> > > 15 have signed up to be writers, 10 as connectors, and 17 as
> > > reviewers. Writers will look for overlaps and similarities in the
> > > existing content to see where multiple recommendations could be merged
> > > and unified. Connectors will work closely with writers to help them
> > > improve and expand the content and assess how and where to best
> > > integrate phase 1 material, research, and community input. Reviewers
> > > will go through the synthesized recommendations and provide specific
> > > additional perspectives, expertise, contexts, and advice as needed.
> > >
> > > The writers are currently in a high period of activity, which began in
> > > early November and will run through December, with ongoing support
> > > from the connectors. Alongside bringing together the existing
> > > recommendations, they are also defining principles that underpin and
> > > guide the content of these recommendations. The writers will come
> > > together in Berlin in the first week of December to work intensively
> > > on consolidating the recommendations and finalize the work.
> > >
> > > == Next steps ==
> > > When the synthesized recommendations are ready and published in early
> > > 2020, a final round of movement conversations will take place.
> > > Movement stakeholders will have a chance to understand the path
> > > towards these recommendations and to review the semi-final document.
> > > The final recommendations will be presented to the Board of Trustees
> > > in March and subsequently to the movement for approval. The first step
> > > towards implementation will be discussing prioritization and
> > > sequencing of the recommendations, as well as agreeing upon
> > > responsibilities for bringing each recommendation to life.[2]
> > >
> > > We’ll keep you posted on future developments and more concrete steps
> > > towards approval here and on Wikimedia Space, so stay tuned!
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups#Synthesis_Groups
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Overview/Timeline#Detailed_timeline_October_2019_to_June_2020
> > >
> > > --
> > > Nicole Ebber
> > > Leiterin Internationale Beziehungen
> > > Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > https://wikimedia.de
> > >
> > > Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der
> > > Menschheit teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns
> > > dabei! https://spenden.wikimedia.de
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> > > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
> > > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> > > Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.

Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiConference North America live stream

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Phoebe, thank you for the good news. We invest so much in our
conferences, that it is a pity that they often are not recorded.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 7. Nov. 2019 um 20:31 Uhr schrieb phoebe ayers <
phoebe.w...@gmail.com>:

> Dear all,
> We are looking forward to WikiConference North America here at MIT in
> Cambridge, Massachusetts this weekend! We will be welcoming around 250
> people over the four-day weekend, with a museum and cultural institution
> culture crawl on Friday, conference sessions on Saturday and Sunday, and
> discussion/hackathon focused on reliability and credibility on Monday.
>
> For those who can't be here with us in person, we have a live stream
> planned of three of our session rooms on Saturday and Sunday. To access the
> stream, go here:
> http://web.mit.edu/webcast/wiki/f19/
>
> We are looking forward to sharing as much of the conference as we can with
> you all! To find out what is when, the schedule is here (all times eastern
> time):
> https://wikiconference.org/wiki/2019/Schedule
>
> We have a packed schedule with sessions about education, research,
> outreach, and more, as well as a special focus/track in our main auditorium
> on credibility and reliability in the news and media, which our partners at
> the Credibility Coalition are assisting with. As we think about the future
> of Wikipedia as a reliable source in a world where social media platforms
> and media networks are struggling with issues of misinformation and
> credibility, we hope that this program will be both timely and helpful.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions and I hope you are able to tune in
> online.
> Phoebe, for WCNA
>
>
> --
> * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers 
> gmail.com *
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

[Ziko van Dijk]

Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF
(committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM
user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody
have a link?
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulospern...@gmail.com>:

> Hi Farhad,
>
> Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight.
> The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and
> it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations.
> I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter
> model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and nuanced
> options and varieties, such as those confederations.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
>
> Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin  escreveu no dia
> sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a
> > Tatar language-specific UG.
> > On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on
> > meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a
> > territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more
> > language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
> >
> >
> > Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
> conference
> > - regional conference - topic-specific conferences"  & (2) WMF &
> affiliates
> > general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each
> > addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
> cooperating
> > in various projects.
> >
> > * Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
> > decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all
> > members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
> chapter
> > is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming
> > some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't
> > be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
> >
> > * SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
> the
> > Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring
> > Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of
> > Moscow).
> >
> > * Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
> > Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level
> > advocacy & other projects.
> >
> > * We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
> > more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
> or
> > topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
> >
> >
> > regards,
> > farhad
> >
> > --
> > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan /
> > Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
> >
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Affiliates] Recognition of the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Philip,

I was asking the same question - isn't there already a Wikimedia Rossiya -
but I guess this is the User Group of Saint Petersburg in Florida (USA),
not Sankt Peterburg in Russia.
Oh wait... this IS about the city in Russia!
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group

Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:15 Uhr schrieb Philip Kopetzky <
philip.kopet...@gmail.com>:

> Hi Kirill,
>
> so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into
> different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the
> future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the Russian
> community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome, Paris, Munich
> or Sydney for example?
>
> Best,
> Philip
>
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 12:20, Kirill Lokshin 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized
> > [1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia
> User
> > Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg, to
> > support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg
> > across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects
> and
> > movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the
> Wikimedia
> > community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media institutions
> in
> > St. Petersburg.
> >
> > Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kirill Lokshin
> > Chair, Affiliations Committee
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recognition_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
> > [2]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
> > ___
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> > affilia...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Outcomes of the Harmonization Sprint in Tunis

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear Nicole,
Thank you for the explanation. Maybe some more context on Meta Wiki might
make sense?
I am looking forward to see the final results.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Di., 1. Okt. 2019 um 19:08 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulospern...@gmail.com>:

> " A second iteration of draft recommendations [4] was published on Meta
> just before the sprint for
> the communities’ information." - It's quite unclear what are we supposed to
> do with this, since those recommendations most probably became outdated in
> the course of the Tunis meetings in the days following their publication.
> Are we supposed to do anything at all with them?
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Nicole Ebber  escreveu no dia segunda,
> 30/09/2019 à(s) 17:27:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > We recently held the harmonization sprint in Tunis [1], where
> > representatives from each working group met in person to continue
> bringing
> > nine separate sets of draft recommendations into one set. The event also
> > brought together staff members from the Wikimedia Foundation and
> Wikimedia
> > Deutschland, the WMF Chair of the Board of Trustees, and members of the
> > core team. A longer narrative report will be published in the coming
> weeks;
> > in the meantime, see a short day-by-day report on Meta, photos on commons
> > [2], and check out the hashtag #hs2030 on Twitter [3].
> >
> > In the lead up to the meeting, the working groups were busy refining
> their
> > draft recommendations based on feedback received at in person events from
> > Wikimedians across the movement as well as on wiki, via email, and on
> > social media since March of this year. They had also begun identifying
> > overlaps in each other’s recommendations and content. A second iteration
> of
> > draft recommendations [4] was published on Meta just before the sprint
> for
> > the communities’ information.
> >
> > At the sprint, we continued to group recommendations based on
> > commonalities. From there, we looked at what kinds of structures would
> need
> > to be in place to deliver the Wikimedia 2030 vision. A first, rough
> > grouping of recommendations came together at the sprint. But what became
> > clear during the event was that before it’s possible to create a coherent
> > and actionable set of recommendations, fundamental principles that
> underpin
> > the path towards 2030 need to be formalized.
> >
> > The core team is currently processing the discussion materials and
> > outcomes. Analysis of the current draft recommendations will continue so
> as
> > to create one unified set. The timeline will shift and we are looking
> into
> > options for another round of community input.
> >
> > I would like to make clear that the reason we were not able to achieve
> our
> > initial goal in Tunis was due to a lack of clarity and guidance on the
> core
> > team’s part. Still, the time was not wasted and important, honest
> > conversations were had. The working group members, as ever, devoted an
> > enormous amount of energy and care in the lead up to and during the
> event,
> > and demonstrated their deep understanding of the challenges and
> > opportunities in our movement. We are extremely grateful for all their
> > effort. In short, the harmonization sprint underlined the high level of
> > work and dedication every single working group member has put into
> getting
> > the movement strategy to its current point, and the passion to shape the
> > future of the diverse and inclusive movement we envision.
> >
> > We have valuable lessons to take from this event and incorporate into the
> > overall process and the next steps. We will share these with you all as
> > soon as possible. If you have questions in the meantime, please feel free
> > to reach out to me.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Nicole
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Harmonization_Sprint
> > [2]
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_2030_Harmonization_Sprint
> > [3] https://twitter.com/search?q=%23hs2030
> > [4]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nicole Ebber
> > Adviser International Relations
> > Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > https://wikimedia.de
> >
> > Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der
> Menschheit
> > teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > https://spenden.wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter
> > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Collaboration with Indonesian Air Force

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear colleague,

Very interesting - I was not aware that armed forces can be a partner of
GLAM. We are curious to see the link to a Commons category.

Kind regards
Ziko van Dijk

main author of :
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesischer_Unabh%C3%A4ngigkeitskrieg



Am Do., 12. Sept. 2019 um 12:51 Uhr schrieb Biyanto Rebin <
biyanto.re...@wikimedia.or.id>:

> Dear all,
>
> We are happy to announce that Wikimedia Indonesia will collaborate with
> Indonesian Air Force to provide free access for their museum collection to
> wider audiences. We are starting to upload and provide the QR code to their
> collection.
>
> Thank Misdianto (User:NaidNdeso
> <https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pengguna:NaidNdeso>), our community member,
> who connect us with the IAF.
>
> Source:
> https://tni-au.mil.id/sajikan-informasi-digital-dispenau-gandeng-wikimedia/
> English version:
>
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=id&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftni-au.mil.id%2Fsajikan-informasi-digital-dispenau-gandeng-wikimedia%2F
>
> All the best from Indonesia.
>
> --
> Biyanto Rebin | Ketua Umum (*Chair*) 2016-2018
> Wikimedia Indonesia
> Surel: biyanto.re...@wikimedia.or.id
> -
> Dukung upaya kami membebaskan pengetahuan:
> https://wikimedia.or.id/sumbangan/
> <http://wikimedia.or.id/wiki/Wikimedia_Indonesia:Donasi>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

the "Recommendations" are a problem because we are so late in the strategy
process. They are supposed to give the community a chance for community
input. If the quality of the "Recommendations" is so poor, then the chance
for the community to give substantial input is very limited.
In this unready state, the "Recommendations" or parts of them should not
have been published. It is not appropriate to ask the community to invest
time in reading texts that are not ready.
The experience is very frustrating.

Kind regards
Ziko



Am Do., 22. Aug. 2019 um 13:00 Uhr schrieb Nicole Ebber <
nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de>:

> Hi Ziko and all,
>
> Thanks for sharing your concerns and suggestions. I have posted a response
> to the other thread and hope to have addressed your questions there as
> well. Let me know if you need further clarification.
>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-August/093303.html
>
> Best wishes,
> Nicole
>
> On Sun, 18 Aug 2019 at 10:50, Aron Manning  wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 17 Aug 2019 at 22:07, Jeff Hawke 
> wrote:
> >
> > > "Open community input will be accepted until September 15, after which
> > > working groups will refine and finalize their work using movement input
> > as
> > >
> >
> > I expect the drafts to be revised for new rounds of feedback within that
> > timeframe. In one week the community gathered information fundamental to
> > these drafts, but missing from the first iteration. In an agile
> environment
> > this can be incorporated into the drafts in a few days, and even in
> > wikipedian time 1-2 weeks could be enough to publish the next iteration,
> > and keep the conversation alive.
> > I hope after Wikimania the WG members will be able to dedicate time for
> > this, otherwise the tight timeline is not possible. Ideally the most
> > popular drafts would be updated weekly, or more often, answering some
> > feedback in each iteration, not necessarily all of it.
> >
> > Aron
> >
> >
> > ᐧ
> > ___
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Adviser International Relations
> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> https://wikimedia.de
>
> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der Menschheit
> teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> https://spenden.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Let's put it this way: The "recommendations" have been presented as a kind
of "Beta". But the actual status looks more like "Alpha".
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Do., 15. Aug. 2019 um 20:03 Uhr schrieb Peter Southwood <
peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>:

> I agree that a lot of review and comment is needed before some of these
> items can be considered ready for further development. The amount may
> differ, so why not use the Wikipedian method of allowing each
> recommendation to remain open for discussion as long as it is being
> actively discussed (and relevant questions remain unanswered - if questions
> are not answered  it may be necessary to close as no consensus, in which
> case probably best abandoned as a waste of time and effort).
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Paulo Santos Perneta
> Sent: 15 August 2019 13:10
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please
> reconsider!
>
> I subscribe Ziko's request to redefine the timeline of Strategy 2030, for
> the stated reasons. Not only it looks absurd, looking at the quality of the
> published materials, which are obviously not fit for a final discussion on
> this mater, but also because there's no rush to present results already in
> October.
> Rushing to present a final set of recommendations, without proper
> discussion, risks producing a faulty and immature document, facing a
> barrage of resistence from the part of the community when trying to
> implement the recommendations, and basically destroy more than 1 year of
> hard work from everyone involved (core team, WGs, liasion, and the part of
> the community who involved itself on the process).
>
> I endorse the request to the Strategy 2030 Core Team: Please review your
> schedule, and adjust your timetable, so to allow some reasonable time for
> that draft to be discussed and properly finished.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Ziko van Dijk  escreveu no dia quarta, 14/08/2019 à(s)
> 14:48:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Recently, the "draft recommendations" of the strategy working groups have
> > been published. As Nicole informed us, they are "key tools" for the
> future
> > of the movement. These documents are the result of one year of work of
> the
> > working groups.
> >
> > If I am not mistaken, the Wikimedia volunteers now have one month to give
> > feedback. In October, the process of refining and finalizing has to be
> > ready, and in November, the movement will have to start with implementing
> > the recommendations.
> >
> > Having seen now more of the documents, my conclusion can only be one: the
> > documents are simply not ready for this stage of the process. They are
> much
> > more unready than they should be for being put to the eyes of the
> Wikimeda
> > volunteers.
> >
> > There are documents in which there is only one question answered, by one
> > sentence. Other documents don't show that any research has been used to
> > back the statements. Many obvious arguments and links are missing. At
> least
> > at one occasion I read as an answer to an important question: "todo".
> >
> > The proposals often give the impression that they are not thought
> through.
> > There should be quotas for admins, but we see nowhere an explanation how
> > that would relate to the right to remain anonymous. There is the
> statement
> > that minorities sometimes can only express themselves with ND and NC
> > content, but the two links in the document hardly back that claim. After
> > years in which the Wikimedia organizations and other free and open
> content
> > organizations taught us that NC is problematic, now such a drastic
> change?
> >
> > And there is this already infamous sentence: Instead of being informed
> > about the possible negative impacts of NC and ND, we only read: "All
> change
> > has negative connotations to some members of the community."
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Diversity/Recommendations/9
> >
> > I find it stunning that there was nobody who went through the documents
> > before publication and said: we cannot publish this sentence, it is
> giving
> > a very bad impression about our attitude towards the community (= the
> very
> > same people we are asking to invest their time for giving feedback).
> >
> > This does not mean that all documents or all sections and recommendati

[Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Recently, the "draft recommendations" of the strategy working groups have
been published. As Nicole informed us, they are "key tools" for the future
of the movement. These documents are the result of one year of work of the
working groups.

If I am not mistaken, the Wikimedia volunteers now have one month to give
feedback. In October, the process of refining and finalizing has to be
ready, and in November, the movement will have to start with implementing
the recommendations.

Having seen now more of the documents, my conclusion can only be one: the
documents are simply not ready for this stage of the process. They are much
more unready than they should be for being put to the eyes of the Wikimeda
volunteers.

There are documents in which there is only one question answered, by one
sentence. Other documents don't show that any research has been used to
back the statements. Many obvious arguments and links are missing. At least
at one occasion I read as an answer to an important question: "todo".

The proposals often give the impression that they are not thought through.
There should be quotas for admins, but we see nowhere an explanation how
that would relate to the right to remain anonymous. There is the statement
that minorities sometimes can only express themselves with ND and NC
content, but the two links in the document hardly back that claim. After
years in which the Wikimedia organizations and other free and open content
organizations taught us that NC is problematic, now such a drastic change?

And there is this already infamous sentence: Instead of being informed
about the possible negative impacts of NC and ND, we only read: "All change
has negative connotations to some members of the community."

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Diversity/Recommendations/9

I find it stunning that there was nobody who went through the documents
before publication and said: we cannot publish this sentence, it is giving
a very bad impression about our attitude towards the community (= the very
same people we are asking to invest their time for giving feedback).

This does not mean that all documents or all sections and recommendations
are unusable or damaging. I also cannot judge about the efforts invested,
as I have no insight in the inner workings. But it is very frustrating for
me to read the documents and often have to guess what they actually mean.
And it seems to me, given the comments on the user pages on Meta Wiki, on
this list, on de:WP:Kurier and on Facebook, that I am not the only one who
feels this frustration.

Therefore, I ask the people responsible: please reconsider the timeline. If
these documents are the result of one year work, then the documents will
not be ready within two and a half months. Consider several months for the
working groups to use the present feedback for a redraft, and then give the
Wikimedia volunteers at least the same amount of time for giving feedback
again.

Kind regards
Ziko
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Aron,

Am Mo., 12. Aug. 2019 um 22:34 Uhr schrieb Aron Manning <
aronmanni...@gmail.com>:

>
> Part of this would be the addition of NC and ND licenses. This doesn't mean
> that there will be less free content, but instead more material will be
> possible to be uploaded, from underrepresented communities. This would be a
> very welcome change.
>


The concern is that allowing NC and ND would lead to more content being
uploaded under these "unfree" conditions that otherwise would be uploaded
as "free". See the excellent brochure published by WMDE some years ago.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Free_Knowledge_thanks_to_Creative_Commons_Licenses.pdf



> The draft already refers to 2 articles (1
> ,2
> <
> https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c0043945-852b-4d7e-94ad-1859f91ba418
> >)
> that explain the need for ND. I'll ask for further sources that show the
> benefits of NC and ND licensed materials.
>
>
I fail to see how these two articles "explain the need for ND". The -
interesting - article about the daguerrotypes relates to images that are
long in the Public Domain.

Kind regards
Ziko





> Aron
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 11:25, Fæ  wrote:
>
> > The justifications for the change read as unsourced and arbitrary. In
> > particular there is no evidence that using Commons to host NC ND
> > material that may be important to minority communities, such as
> > traditional folk art, would help better to educate the public about
> > those arts when the same NC restriction would halt in its
> > tracks the general use of Commons by educators and universities. The
> > change in commons policies would have the consequence of advice to
> > educators being against using our media in lectures, study materials,
> > academic papers, academic books etc.
> >
> > The Meta page that is linked to verges on being blatantly hostile to
> > the views of the Wikimedia Commons communities
> > * Q4a. Could this Recommendation have a negative impact/change?
> > * (Answer) All change has negative connotations to some members of the
> > community.
> > This appears deliberately flippant and provocative. Bizarre.
> >
> >
>
> ᐧ
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Am Mo., 12. Aug. 2019 um 17:51 Uhr schrieb Nicole Ebber <
nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de>:

> Dear all,.



> As such, constructive
> feedback and solution-oriented suggestions are welcomed.


Hello Nicole,
For example, if I say that I am against NC and ND content on Commons, would
such a feedback be welcome? Or would it be dismissed as not "constructive"
and not "solution-oriented"?
Maybe you can explain to me what the actual problem is that is supposed to
be solved by ND and NC content?
Kind regards
Ziko





> > specific expressions of those ideas certainly can be, but the underlying
> > facts and ideas cannot. If the expression of those ideas is to be on
> > Wikimedia, they must be under an open content license, allowing reuse
> > without regard to purpose. If someone would prefer to put their work
> under
> > an NC license, then a free-content project is not the appropriate place
> for
> > it. Many other places are happy to accept NC-licensed material. But even
> > then, reuse of the concepts and facts cannot be prohibited no matter what
> > one does.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:47 AM Philip Kopetzky <
> philip.kopet...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Please don't generalise frustration with your conduct on this list.
> > You're
> > > the only one telling people to shut up here.
> > >
> > > And just to keep this on track, what is your view on how we can
> > incorporate
> > > indigenous knowledge without it becoming commercialised by the current
> > > licensing scheme?
> > > ___
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> > > 
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> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Adviser International Relations
> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> https://wikimedia.de
>
> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der Menschheit
> teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> https://spenden.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] NC and ND content (was: Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations...)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

There was once a report in which I read: Wikimedia Commons should allow NC
and ND content because that is somehow good for "communities that are
historically prohibited from telling their stories".
Then I asked on the talk page for the reasoning behind this
demand/postulation.
The answer I got was not very substantial.
I am very open to discuss the pros and cons of e.g. opening Wikimedia
Commons to NC or ND. But sorry, I find it very difficult to have a
meaningful conversation on this basis.

Kind regards
Ziko


https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Reports/March-April_Community_Conversations_Monthly_Report


Am Fr., 9. Aug. 2019 um 20:37 Uhr schrieb Nicole Ebber <
nicole.eb...@wikimedia.de>:

> Dear fellow Wikimedians,
>
> They’re here! [1] We are delighted to announce the first round of
> draft recommendations for structural change within our movement have
> been published. The recommendations have been developed by the nine
> Wikimedia 2030 working groups and are a key tool to help us build the
> future of our movement.
>
> Working group members have been working tirelessly for a year to
> research the movement, analyze community input shared via community
> conversations, and gain insight into external trends. A huge thank you
> to each and every member for helping us reach this key milestone.
>
> The draft recommendations are a first look at ways we can adapt our
> movement’s structures to help us advance in our strategic direction.
> They are the starting point for conversations about what kind of
> future we want to create together.
>
> The recommendations are not final. In order to get them to that stage,
> your input is needed! We would like to hear from you all what these
> changes would mean for you in your local or thematic context, what do
> you like about them, and where you potentially see any red flags. And
> of course, always critically question whether these recommendations
> support the strategic direction.
>
> There are a few ways to do this:
> * Read through the recommendations online and provide your input
> directly on Meta. [2]
> * If you will be at Wikimania, join us in the Wikimedia 2030 space. [3]
> * Attend a Strategy Salon hosted by an affiliate where you live. [4]
> * Reach out to a Strategy Liaison in your language to share feedback,
> or lead a conversation of your own. [5]
>
> Over the next month, working groups will take the input they receive
> into the recommendations, alongside external advice and research, and
> use it to refine and finalize them. Share your views, and help shape
> what Wikimedia will look like in 2030 and beyond.
>
> If you have any questions or feedback, please feel free to get in touch.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Nicole
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> [3] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Wikimedia_2030
> [4]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Strategy_Salons
> [5]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/People/Community_Strategy_Liaisons
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Adviser International Relations
> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy
> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> https://wikimedia.de
>
> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der
> Menschheit teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns
> dabei! https://spenden.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Introducing Wikimedia Space: A space for movement news and conversations

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Frankly, I am surprised by the announcement, too. Maybe I do not spend
enough time on wikis and mailinglists? :/

In general I am very curious for this new platform. I find it quite ...
telling or a bad signal that many wikipedians started to prefer discussing
wiki topics on Facebook (1) rather than on the village pumps. Including me.
One of the reasons is the toxic atmosphere on many wiki pages, while the
Facebook groups are moderated.

Kind regards
Ziko






Am Mi., 26. Juni 2019 um 09:19 Uhr schrieb geni :

> On Tue, 25 Jun 2019 at 22:19, Yair Rand  wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting so many red flags.
> >
> > Established by WMF via secret (non-transparent) process, with no
> community
> > involvement? Non-wiki environment, with the same scope as existing wikis?
> > WMF-decided conduct policies? Every single moderator is a WMF employee?
> > Forum using closed groups, with non-transparent communication?
> > (Closed-source software, unless I'm mistaken?) So far outside Wikimedia
> > spaces that the only place it was even _announced_ was an off-wiki
> mailing
> > list?
> >
> > Is there something the Wikimedia Foundation would like to tell us?
> >
> > -- Yair Rand
> >
>
>
> While I agree that a good tracking mount, a reasonable telescope and
> some CCDs would be a better use of the money (there are some
> satellites I want pics of) I don't see anything particular nefarious
> here. Improving communications is a long term goal and shifting away
> from mediawiki appears on the face of it a good way to do that (we are
> after all on a mailing list at the moment. In practice experience
> suggests that most people are too busy doing what they are already
> doing to get involved in such projects and that mediawiki is so
> central to what we are do that most people are pretty comfortable with
> it.
>
>
> So this falls well within the WMF’s nominal goals and is a fairly
> understandable approach. I still think we would be better off spending
> the money on the kit needed to get a pic of Kosmos 482.
>
>
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New board for Wikimedia Belgium + evaluation behaviour WMF

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
It seems to me the best that a (different) member of the WMBE board
contacts a suitable person at WMF. A public list is not the best place
for sorting these things out.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Mo., 17. Juni 2019 um 16:48 Uhr schrieb Dariusz Jemielniak
:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:26 PM Michel Vuijlsteke 
> mailto:wikipe...@zog.org>> wrote:
> In other words, the best way to ban anyone from any event is to start a
> rumour about them?
>
> My understanding is that noone was banned from an event.
>
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 4:28 PM Paulo Santos Perneta 
> mailto:paulospern...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I've read and reread the WMBE message, and have not found anything near 
> "pushing people who felt harassed or mistreated to step forward".
>
> I'm referring to message from Caroline.
>
>
> I also do not understand why you're addressing WMBE as "Romaine" (begging the 
> question?).
>
> Can you please clarify?
>
> The message was sent from 
> romaine.w...@gmail.com account and I assumed 
> that addressing the sender as "Romaine" is appropriate.
>
> best,
>
> dj
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to the May 2019 Wikimedia Monthly Activities Meeting: Thursday, May 30th, 18:00 UTC

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
Thanks for the information. The Meeting is indeed usually a very
interesting broadbast, and I am looking forward to e.g. hearing about the
Data project on Commons.
By the way, do you actually read the comments in Youtube?
Kind regards
Ziko

Sasha Redkina  schrieb am Do. 30. Mai 2019 um 19:38:

> Hello everyone,
>
> This meeting will start in approximately 20 minutes.
>
> Sasha Redkina
> Front Office Coordinator
> *The Wikimedia Foundation*
> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 5:44 PM Sasha Redkina <
> activitiesmeet...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> > The next Wikimedia Monthly Activities meeting will take place on
> Thursday,
> > May 30th, 2019 at 18:00  UTC (11 AM PDT). The IRC channel is
> > #wikimedia-office on https://webchat.freenode.net, and the meeting will
> > be broadcast as a live YouTube stream:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxCFzA3PEaQ
> > 
> > We’ll post the video recording publicly after the meeting.
> >
> > Agenda
> > Facilitator: Samantha Lien, Wikimedia Foundation Communications Manager
> >
> >
> >- Welcome and introduction to agenda - 2 minutes
> >- Movement update - 3 minutes
> >- Structured Data on Commons: the first GLAM pilot projects! - 10
> >minutes
> >- The Wikidata Infobox on Commons - 10 minutes
> >- Wikimedia 2030 status update and opportunities to participate - 15
> >minutes
> >- Questions and discussion - 10 minutes
> >- Wikilove - 5 minutes
> >
> > Please review the meeting's Meta-Wiki page for further information about
> > the meeting and how to participate:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_monthly_activities_meetings
> >
> > The June 2019 monthly activities meeting will take place on Thursday,
> June
> > 27, starting at 18:00 UTC (11:00 Pacific Daylight Time). To sign up to
> > participate, please visit:
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_monthly_activities_meetings/Sign_up
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Ziko van Dijk]

That is an excellent point, Jennifer! This problem makes collaboration
on Commons even more difficult or unlikely.
The photographer sometimes has an unique access to the part of the
world he described with a picture. Often on Commons we simply ask the
photographer: 'where did you take the picture', or 'what is the
context' etc., because we cannot see that from the picture itself or
we cannot look it up by ourselves.
I think with wiki journalism it is quite similar.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Sa., 27. Apr. 2019 um 13:15 Uhr schrieb Jennifer Pryor-Summers
:
>
> Yaroslav
>
> I think you have identified an important point -- I hestitate to call it a
> problem -- about Commons.  We are dependent on the authority of the
> uploader of an image, say, to say what it is an image of.  If they say it
> is a certain locality, or object, we have to take their word for it (or
> not, of course).  That doesn't fit too well with the requirement on other
> projects for citation of reliable independent sources.
>
> Jennifer
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:34 AM Yaroslav Blanter  wrote:
>
> > Hi Ziko,
> >
> > you could then argue that Commons is also not a collaborative project -
> > only one person takes a picture (determines the story, the position, light
> > etc), and others can at best perform some editing or add/remove categories.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:29 AM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Philippe,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your points to which I generally can agree. Because this
> > > is an important matter to my, allow me to explain what I exactly mean.
> > >
> > > Of course, there are several tasks or layers where people can (and do)
> > > collaborate when working on journalistic content. But there is an
> > > aspect where the collaboration cannot be a collaboration of equals
> > > (which is necessary for the definition of what a wiki is).
> > >
> > > Imagine that reporter-editor P. has witnessed a speech of the mayor
> > > and reports about it, calling it e.g. "enthusiast".
> > > Stay-at-home-editor Z. reads this report and changes the word to
> > > "euphoric". P. then protests and changes it back, claiming that he has
> > > been there and knows better. So P. and Z. didn't have the same access
> > > to the world that has to be described.
> > >
> > > That would be different in the case that P. and Z. only work on
> > > material such as press releases and content from news agencies. I
> > > believe that Andrew meant this kind of work when he wrote that we
> > > don't need (another) website offering this.
> > >
> > > Another example for content unsuitable for
> > > wiki-collaboration-among-equals is an autobiography. An autobiography
> > > by definition is a personal account of what someone has experienced in
> > > her life. No other person has the same world access. Other people in a
> > > wiki can check the text for inconsistencies, orthography, structure
> > > etc. (Great.) But the person of the autobiography has always a veto
> > > right - otherwise, it wouldn't be an autobiography.
> > >
> > > An interesting question is whether fiction is suitable for
> > > collaboration (and what kind of collaboration), but that would go to
> > > far here.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > > Ziko
> > >
> > > Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 18:26 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
> > > :
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully Disagree. They can formulate questions, coordinate and
> > fact
> > > > check answers... and that’s off the top of my head.
> > > >
> > > > That said I think wikinews is fundamentally not one is our success
> > > stories,
> > > > but I don’t agree with what my friend Ziko said there. There are many
> > > roles
> > > > for community there.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ziko van Dijk 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
> > > > > suitable for collaboration.
> > > > >
> > > > > Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
> > > > > the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
> > > > > on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Ziko van Dijk]

Yes indeed, Wikimedia Commons sees not much of collaboration in that sense.
The collaboration on Commons is of an insular kind: people don't
(much) edit other people's work, but they together contribute to the
whole wiki.
Different is collaboration where several people edit the same content
and have sometimes to discuss about choices.  But on Commons, there is
no need for that. It does not have a macrostructure in which every
item (hypertext node, article) has to be unique. In Commons, if you
see a picture of the Notre Dame cathedral and you don't like it, you
simply upload your own. Different to Wikipedia: if you see the article
"Elephant", and you don't like it, you cannot simply create a new one.

The problem is that we use the word "collaboration" often without
distinction for several kinds of collaboration.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Sa., 27. Apr. 2019 um 12:34 Uhr schrieb Yaroslav Blanter :
>
> Hi Ziko,
>
> you could then argue that Commons is also not a collaborative project -
> only one person takes a picture (determines the story, the position, light
> etc), and others can at best perform some editing or add/remove categories.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 11:29 AM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > Hello Philippe,
> >
> > Thank you for your points to which I generally can agree. Because this
> > is an important matter to my, allow me to explain what I exactly mean.
> >
> > Of course, there are several tasks or layers where people can (and do)
> > collaborate when working on journalistic content. But there is an
> > aspect where the collaboration cannot be a collaboration of equals
> > (which is necessary for the definition of what a wiki is).
> >
> > Imagine that reporter-editor P. has witnessed a speech of the mayor
> > and reports about it, calling it e.g. "enthusiast".
> > Stay-at-home-editor Z. reads this report and changes the word to
> > "euphoric". P. then protests and changes it back, claiming that he has
> > been there and knows better. So P. and Z. didn't have the same access
> > to the world that has to be described.
> >
> > That would be different in the case that P. and Z. only work on
> > material such as press releases and content from news agencies. I
> > believe that Andrew meant this kind of work when he wrote that we
> > don't need (another) website offering this.
> >
> > Another example for content unsuitable for
> > wiki-collaboration-among-equals is an autobiography. An autobiography
> > by definition is a personal account of what someone has experienced in
> > her life. No other person has the same world access. Other people in a
> > wiki can check the text for inconsistencies, orthography, structure
> > etc. (Great.) But the person of the autobiography has always a veto
> > right - otherwise, it wouldn't be an autobiography.
> >
> > An interesting question is whether fiction is suitable for
> > collaboration (and what kind of collaboration), but that would go to
> > far here.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> > Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 18:26 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
> > :
> > >
> > > Respectfully Disagree. They can formulate questions, coordinate and fact
> > > check answers... and that’s off the top of my head.
> > >
> > > That said I think wikinews is fundamentally not one is our success
> > stories,
> > > but I don’t agree with what my friend Ziko said there. There are many
> > roles
> > > for community there.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ziko van Dijk 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
> > > > suitable for collaboration.
> > > >
> > > > Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
> > > > the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
> > > > on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a
> > > > library.
> > > >
> > > > When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she
> > > > is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in
> > > > the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do
> > > > little more.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > > Ziko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
&

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Philippe,

Thank you for your points to which I generally can agree. Because this
is an important matter to my, allow me to explain what I exactly mean.

Of course, there are several tasks or layers where people can (and do)
collaborate when working on journalistic content. But there is an
aspect where the collaboration cannot be a collaboration of equals
(which is necessary for the definition of what a wiki is).

Imagine that reporter-editor P. has witnessed a speech of the mayor
and reports about it, calling it e.g. "enthusiast".
Stay-at-home-editor Z. reads this report and changes the word to
"euphoric". P. then protests and changes it back, claiming that he has
been there and knows better. So P. and Z. didn't have the same access
to the world that has to be described.

That would be different in the case that P. and Z. only work on
material such as press releases and content from news agencies. I
believe that Andrew meant this kind of work when he wrote that we
don't need (another) website offering this.

Another example for content unsuitable for
wiki-collaboration-among-equals is an autobiography. An autobiography
by definition is a personal account of what someone has experienced in
her life. No other person has the same world access. Other people in a
wiki can check the text for inconsistencies, orthography, structure
etc. (Great.) But the person of the autobiography has always a veto
right - otherwise, it wouldn't be an autobiography.

An interesting question is whether fiction is suitable for
collaboration (and what kind of collaboration), but that would go to
far here.

Kind regards
Ziko

Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 18:26 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
:
>
> Respectfully Disagree. They can formulate questions, coordinate and fact
> check answers... and that’s off the top of my head.
>
> That said I think wikinews is fundamentally not one is our success stories,
> but I don’t agree with what my friend Ziko said there. There are many roles
> for community there.
>
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:15 AM Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
> > suitable for collaboration.
> >
> > Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
> > the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
> > on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a
> > library.
> >
> > When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she
> > is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in
> > the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do
> > little more.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> > Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
> > :
> > >
> > > The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:
> > >
> > > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> > > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
> > > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
> > >
> > > Me too.  In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always done
> > > very well.  It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, use
> > > for a Wiki.  A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a fine
> > > addition to the ecosystem, imho.  And it is very reasonable to think that
> > > given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill
> > > that spot.
> > >
> > > But a news competitor to traditional news outlets?  Nope, that it isn't.
> > >
> > > Philippe
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> > > > that
> > > > > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH)
> > are a
> > > > > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand,
> > Wikipedia
> > > > is
> > > > > a success as a news-gathering operation.  These seem inconsistent to
> > me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than
> > primary
&

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

One of the central problems of Wikinews is that the content is not
suitable for collaboration.

Content suitable for collaboration is related to a reality to which
the collaborators equally have access. Think if an encyclopedia based
on scholarly literature that (potentially) everybody can find in a
library.

When a journalist has spoken to her 'sources' (relevant people), she
is the one who had a special access to theses sources. The editors in
the wiki did not have this access. They can correct typos but do
little more.

Kind regards
Ziko



Am Fr., 26. Apr. 2019 um 00:43 Uhr schrieb Philippe Beaudette
:
>
> The very smart Mr. Lih sayeth:
>
> I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
> news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
>
> [1]
> https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
>
> Me too.  In fact, I think this is something that Wikinews has always done
> very well.  It also strikes me as an excellent, and quite functional, use
> for a Wiki.  A wikivoices or wiki-interviews type project would be a fine
> addition to the ecosystem, imho.  And it is very reasonable to think that
> given its success in this area, Wikinews could very easily pivot to fill
> that spot.
>
> But a news competitor to traditional news outlets?  Nope, that it isn't.
>
> Philippe
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:05 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> > that
> > > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH) are a
> > > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand, Wikipedia
> > is
> > > a success as a news-gathering operation.  These seem inconsistent to me.
> >
> >
> > As Wikimedians we are secondary source news summarizers rather than primary
> > source news gatherers. That’s where the difference lies primarily.
> >
> > I have been a fan of the times Wikinews did original interviews with
> > notable folks [1] so this is perhaps a sustainable niche. But as a direct
> > news wire competitor to AP, Reuters or AFP, no.
> >
> > [1]
> > https://en.m.wikinews.org/wiki/Shimon_Peres_discusses_the_future_of_Israel
> >
> >
> > > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way forward is
> > to
> > > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia.  Is that right?
> >
> >
> > Fold Wikinews altogether so it doesn’t confuse the public. Wikipedia
> > editors are already doing a stellar job.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language) Wikipedia
> > > > seems
> > > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent with
> > its
> > > > > encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason.  Maybe the WMF
> > should
> > > > > sort out the demarcation issues.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jennifer,
> > > >
> > > > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the vast
> > > > majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that Wikinews
> > > > hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
> > properties.
> > > >
> > > > News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the truth
> > > given
> > > > the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing direct
> > > > observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies that
> > > make
> > > > Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting:
> > > >
> > > > Wikipedia:NOR - no original research
> > > > Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources
> > > > Wikipedia:V - verifiability
> > > > Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
> > > >
> > > > Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this mismatch
> > > and
> > > > realize it is a poor fit.
> > > >
> > > > However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
> > > celebrate
> > > > the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve minute
> > to
> > > > minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as we
> > know
> > > > it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of reality –
> > the
> > > > Wikipedia article.
> > > >
> > > > If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of
> > > > Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look:
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > >
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
> > > >
> > > > -Andrew
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l m

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Supporting Wikinews [was: Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals]

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
Some years ago, some volunteers have proposed a new Wikimedia wiki. It did
not turn out as expected. That‘s okay, the movement should try out thing
from time to time.
But this wiki should not be seen as an eternal obligation to be kept.
Kind regards
Ziko



Samuel Klein  schrieb am Di. 16. Apr. 2019 um 23:56:

> Jennifer -- as you say, there is a contradiction here in the self-image and
> internal narrative of the projects and movement.  A classic branding issue
> ;)
> * On the one hand, we lack clear, consistent language to talk about topical
> subprojects (what do you call 'the Current Events specialists on the major
> language Wikpiedias'?  some obvious names have already been taken)
> * On the other, for the few Names that we assign to Projects, we
> overspecify what they mean ('Wikinews is original news reporting or
> synthesis, done on a wikinews.org site').
>
> We propagate this confusion of identity to those outside the projects
> trying to understand them; which in turn leads to misunderstanding in the
> world at large, and fewer potential collaborators joining the projects:
>  I was recently at a gathering of international fact-checkers.   They
> all prized Wikipedia as a model for what rapid collective editing can
> accomplish; assumed wikinews and wikitribune were the best efforts to date
> of applying that to current events; and began an enthusiastic discussion
> about how to do it better.  When I pointed out that Wikipedias did exactly
> what they were discussing, for the most popular news, this was startling
> and satisfying to them.  However as there is no central cafe or village
> pump for current events editors, and what portals do exist are impossible
> to find for all but the most persistent, it is not obvious how to engage
> with them...
>
> This is a challenge of naming + identity that really holds us back: ways
> for people to form groups, projects, message streams; and channel,
> advertise, amplify, polish them; use them for flash projects and
> coalescence, for awareness and thanks.  We have tried many small steps in
> this direction but have never made groups or hashtags work as simple,
> functional tools of alignment.
>
> SJ
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 4:23 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Andrew
> >
> > It seems to me that you're saying that, on the one hand, the policies
> that
> > make Wikipedia work well as an encyclopaedia (NOR, RS, V, NORUSH) are a
> > poor fit for a news-gathering operation and on the other hand, Wikipedia
> is
> > a success as a news-gathering operation.  These seem inconsistent to me.
> > However, I conclude from what you're saying that the best way forward is
> to
> > fold the Wikinews operation into Wikipedia.  Is that right?
> >
> > JPS
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 8:15 PM Andrew Lih  wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2019 at 2:27 PM Jennifer Pryor-Summers <
> > > jennifer.pryorsumm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wikinews may not be doing too well, but (English-language) Wikipedia
> > > seems
> > > > to have taken up a news-gathering role not entirely consistent with
> its
> > > > encyclopediac mission: perhaps that's the reason.  Maybe the WMF
> should
> > > > sort out the demarcation issues.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Jennifer,
> > >
> > > This has been a topic of discussion for more than a decade and the vast
> > > majority of the community has converged on the conclusion that Wikinews
> > > hasn't and won't ever work at any scale given its fundamental
> properties.
> > >
> > > News is often described as "the best obtainable version of the truth
> > given
> > > the constraints of a deadline." News depends on memorializing direct
> > > observation at a point in time. Therefore, the following policies that
> > make
> > > Wikipedia work are a bad fit for original, deadline reporting:
> > >
> > > Wikipedia:NOR - no original research
> > > Wikipedia:RS - requirement for reliable sources
> > > Wikipedia:V - verifiability
> > > Wikipedia:NORUSH - there is no deadline/eventualism
> > >
> > > Most anyone who tries Wikinews first hand will experience this mismatch
> > and
> > > realize it is a poor fit.
> > >
> > > However, rather than lament why Wikinews doesn't work, we should
> > celebrate
> > > the fact that we have found a better mode: entries that evolve minute
> to
> > > minute (oftentimes second to second) to best reflect the world as we
> know
> > > it. Embrace that new, live, constantly updated snapshot of reality –
> the
> > > Wikipedia article.
> > >
> > > If you want to see some of the earlier debates about the origins of
> > > Wikinews, October 2004 is a good place to look:
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/thread.html
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-October/061017.html
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>

[Wikimedia-l] "The Director of the Wikipedia Community"?

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Allow me some notes on the rebranding of the Wikimedia movement. It
seems that the issue becomes larger and larger, as we receive signals
that the challenge is not only to use the brands differently or invent
new brands, but also to reform the movement and its organizations (?).

Also, the "Strategic Direction" hints that the term "community" will
be used for more than for the editing community(-ies) of today. That
everything and everybody will be "community" in future ("and beyond").

This makes the "rebranding" more and more complicated. And it seems -
I like to be corrected - that in external relations both "Wikipedia"
and "community" will be much more in use. So does that mean that, in
future, the director of the Wikimedia Foundation will become the
"director of the Wikipedia community" in external relations?

In general, I understand that the only well-known brand of the
Wikimedia movement is "Wikipedia" and that we should make good use of
it. I just wonder about the consequences for the movement, and how to
indicate relatedness and otherness between the different entities and
wikis.

Kind regards
Ziko

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] A BIG congratulations to the WikiVoyage community.

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear James,

I join the congratulations and remind the audience that it was you who
played an important role to bring wikivoyage into the wikimedia
family. Congratulations!

Kind regards
Ziko

Am So., 14. Apr. 2019 um 19:45 Uhr schrieb James Heilman :
>
> Back in 2013 the WikiVoyage community joined the Wikimedia Movement after
> leaving their prior hoster and site behind.
>
> Per Alexa WikiVoyage this month passed in popularity the website they left.
> WikiVoyage is now the 14,793 most popular website in the world as opposed
> to WikiTravel at 15,821.
>
> A BIG congratulations to the WikiVoyage community :-)
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Ziko van Dijk]

Thank you for taking the time to explain, Chris. Actually we need some
kind of good terms to replace some older terms, but the challenge is
that they have to fit the current situation - or, as I understand you,
to introduce a change of the current situation.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Di., 9. Apr. 2019 um 18:40 Uhr schrieb Chris Keating
:
>
> > At the occasion, we should also reconsider the expressions "chapter"
> > and "user group".
> > "Chapter" is more suitable for local divisions of a national
> > association. And "user group" sounds just like some group. We also
> > already have "user group" as a technical term in MediaWiki.
> >
>
> You may be aware that the movement strategy process is thinking about this
> issue, albeit at a broader level :)
>
> For instance one of the questions the Roles and Responsibilities group is
> looking at is "What governance and organizational structures do we need to
> support the delivery of the strategic direction?"(1)
>
> You will notice that there is no mention of chapters, user groups or indeed
> the WMF in this question. That's because there is no presumption that any
> of those bodies (or types of bodies) will continue to exist in their
> current form - the changes from the strategy process may well be much more
> profound than finessing the names of categories of entity that currently
> exist.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> (1)
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Scoping_questions
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals

[Ziko van Dijk]

At the occasion, we should also reconsider the expressions "chapter"
and "user group".
"Chapter" is more suitable for local divisions of a national
association. And "user group" sounds just like some group. We also
already have "user group" as a technical term in MediaWiki.
Kind regards
Ziko


Am Di., 9. Apr. 2019 um 18:17 Uhr schrieb Joseph Seddon :
>
> From what I know:
> * The global brand won't stop Wikidata being Wikidata.
> * Wikimedia Russia won't necessarily become Wikipedia Russia
>
> Seddon
>
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 4:56 PM Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Think of Wikipedia Russia convincing Russian government that they are not
> > really Wikipedia Russia.
> > 
> > From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf of
> > Benjamin Ikuta 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 4:21 PM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals
> >
> >
> >
> > What real life problems would there be?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 9, 2019, at 6:11 AM, Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga <
> > galder...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The idea of rebranding Wikimedia to Wikipedia will create FAR more
> > problems than it solves, specially in places where identifying ourselves
> > with Wikipedia could create real life problems to affiliates. Let's think
> > on making our product better, because is not a brand problem, is an
> > obsolescence problem what we have.
> > > 
> > > From: Wikimedia-l  on behalf
> > of Gerard Meijssen 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:36 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Reviewing our brand system for our 2030 goals
> > >
> > > Hoi,
> > > The problem is that Wikipedia has an article bound interest. Our aim is
> > to
> > > share in the sum of all knowledge and it is about subjects. In addition
> > to
> > > this the approach and `the lessons learned` in effect are used as a
> > > template on how `other` Wikipedias are to function. This bias hinder,
> > even
> > > prevent other possible approaches.
> > >
> > > Using Wikipedia to define what Wikimedia does, enforces existing bias and
> > > hinders our mission.
> > > Thanks,
> > > GerardM
> > >
> > > On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 at 11:25, James Salsman  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Elena,
> > >>
> > >> If by "branding project" you mean replacing references to Wikimedia
> > >> with Wikipedia, that is fine with me.
> > >>
> > >> Best regards,
> > >> Jim
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 1:58 AM Elena Lappen 
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks to those of you who have participated in the branding project
> > >>> community consultation so far. We’ve received a lot of helpful feedback
> > >> via
> > >>> email, on-wiki, and in small meetings with affiliate group members and
> > >>> individual contributors.
> > >>>
> > >>> I posted this invitation to the project talk page last week [1], but
> > >> wanted
> > >>> to send a reminder here that we will be hosting a video conference
> > >> session
> > >>> to give people a chance to see the presentation, ask questions and
> > >> provide
> > >>> feedback.
> > >>>
> > >>> When? This Thursday, April 11th from 16:00-17:00 UTC.
> > >>>
> > >>> Where? https://bluejeans.com/540134391/browser, or call in using your
> > >>> closest local number [2] and enter meeting ID 540 134 391#.
> > >>>
> > >>> If you’d like to see the presentation but cannot attend, that is no
> > >>> problem—we will be posting a recording to Commons and putting the link
> > on
> > >>> the talk page afterwards.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Elena
> > >>>
> > >>> [1]
> > >>>
> > >>
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_research_and_planning/community_review#Invitation_to_join_a_video_conference_presentation
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [2] https://www.bluejeans.com/premium-numbers
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Elena Lappen
> > >>> Community Relations Specialist
> > >>> Wikimedia Foundation
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 7:14 PM Zack McCune 
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  :: Apologies for cross-posting to multiple mailing lists. We want to
> > >> ensure
> >  we spread the word about this opportunity to as many people as
> > >> possible. ::
> > 
> >  Hi all,
> > 
> >  We are writing today to invite you to be a part of a community review
> > >> on
> >  Wikimedia brand research and strategy.
> > 
> >  Recently, the Wikimedia Foundation set out to better understand how
> > the
> >  world sees Wikimedia and Wikimedia projects as brands.[1] We wanted to
> > >> get
> >  a sense of the general visibility of our different projects, and
> > >> evaluate
> >  public support of our mission to spread free knowledge.
> > 
> >  We launched a global brand study to research these questions, as part
> > >> of
> >  our planning toward our 2030 strategic goals

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikidata now officially has more total edits than English language Wikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Ariel Glenn,
Thanks for the notification, very interesting. Well, we all know that
making a lot of edits on Wikidata is "easier" or happens quicker than on
Wikipedia, for various reasons. But still it is a nice milestone to
congratulate to Wikidata. Hereby. :-)
Kind regards
Ziko


Am Mi., 20. März 2019 um 07:58 Uhr schrieb Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>:

> Hoi,
> So in stead of calling us all Wikipedia, let us be known as Wikidata...
> HU
> Thanks,
>   GerardM
>
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2019 at 07:48, Ariel Glenn WMF  wrote:
>
> > Wikidata surpassed the English language Wikipedia in the number of
> > revisions in the database, about 45 minutes ago today.I was tipped off
> by a
> > tweet [1] a few day ago and have been watching via a script that displays
> > the largest revision id and its timestamp. Here's the point where
> Wikidata
> > overtakes English Wikipedia (times in UTC):
> >
> > [ariel@bigtrouble wikidata-huge]$ python3 ./get_revid_info.py -d
> > www.wikidata.org -r 888603998,888603999,888604000
> > revid 888603998 at 2019-03-20T06:00:59Z
> > revid 888603999 at 2019-03-20T06:00:59Z
> > revid 888604000 at 2019-03-20T06:00:59Z
> > [ariel@bigtrouble wikidata-huge]$ python3 ./get_revid_info.py -d
> > en.wikipedia.org -r 888603998,888603999,888604000
> > revid 888603998 at 2019-03-20T06:00:59Z
> > revid 888603999 at 2019-03-20T06:00:59Z
> > revid 888604000 at 2019-03-20T06:01:00Z
> >
> > Only 45 minutes later, the gap is already over 2000 revsions:
> >
> > [ariel@bigtrouble wikidata-huge]$ python3 ./compare_sizes.py
> > Last enwiki revid is 888606979 and last wikidata revid is 888629401
> > 2019-03-20 06:46:03: diff is 22422
> >
> > Have a nice day!
> >
> > Ariel
> >
> > [1] https://twitter.com/MonsieurAZ/status/1106565116508729345
> > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Inisghts from a meeting with NGO representatives

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello, maybe there is a suitable place on Meta Wiki to conserve this? Later
it will be a little bit difficult to find it again on a mailinglist.
I myself find this point of view of "outsiders" very interesting and worth
to notice e.g. in strategic discussions.
Kind regards
Ziko

Am Mo., 18. Feb. 2019 um 11:41 Uhr schrieb David Cuenca Tudela <
dacu...@gmail.com>:

> Hi Bodhisattwa,
>
>
> *Governance recommendation *
> I assisted to a session on sociocracy organized by the Transition Network
> that basically blew my mind. The speaker explained how for her it has been
> always difficult to participate in decision-making because she feels that
> she is a very vocal person, and she felt that with democracy it was mostly
> about taking sides and wining or losing, which was quite disappointing for
> her. Then she started to explain the sociocratic principles of decision by
> consent, and what does that mean.
>
> What is interesting about sociocracy itself, is not the process or the
> method, but how it challenges the participants to truly understand the
> meaning of a decision, and their own relationship with it. Objections are
> seen as a gift that will help improve the proposal, once they have been
> properly understood. Normally it takes effort from the participants to
> address their own personal issues as well, because they have an impact on
> how the group can operate.
>
> Trust can be built during in person sessions, and it is necessary for the
> group to operate smoothly. Sociocracy is not for people who like to
> accumulate power, or are not able to share power with others, and that can
> drive people away. On the other hand, those who stay feel more included and
> supported by the organisation. There is also an element of celebration,
> which sometimes we forget. Taking decisions is hard work, and we should
> celebrate when we reach one.
>
> Sociocracy it is easy to grasp, but difficult to master. The members of the
> Transition Network had to undergo a training during a long time at the
> Université de Nous, to become proficient in this method. There is also a
> software that assists self-organization: https://www.holaspirit.com/
>
> Regards,
> Micru
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:45 AM Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Micru,
> >
> > I am interested about your thoughts about governance recommendation for
> the
> > movement and community model of affiliates.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bodhisattwa
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 18 Feb 2019, 12:14 Фархад Фаткуллин / Farkhad Fatkullin <
> > f...@yandex.com wrote:
> >
> > > Micru,
> > > I would be interested to learn about "External perception of the
> > > movement".part of your insights.
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > from Russia with love,
> > > farhad
> > > https://ru.wikimedia.org/wiki/Smart_region
> > >
> > > --
> > > Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин http://sikzn.ru/ Тел.+79274158066
> /
> > > skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / WMRU:
> > >
> > >
> > > 18.02.2019, 02:35, "David Cuenca Tudela" :
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > Last Friday I participated in a workshop in Brussels where people
> from
> > > > different NGOs met to learn from each other to foster flat,
> > > > democratic, and diverse organisations. I was one of four speakers in
> a
> > > > "world cafe" format (basically a circle where participants can
> > > > interact with the speaker). I represented the Wikimedia movement in
> > > > general, with the intention that participants would learn from our
> > > > movement, and so that I would learn from them. There were also Open
> > > > Space sessions.
> > > >
> > > > If there is interest, I can share with you my insights on any of
> these
> > > topics:
> > > > - External perception of the movement
> > > > - Recommendations to the WMF
> > > > - Governance recommendations for the movement
> > > > - Community model for affiliates
> > > > - How to increase diversity
> > > >
> > > > There is a lot to say about each topic, so please ask only about the
> > > > topic you have genuine interest in. If there is no interest, I'm ok
> > > > keeping it to myself.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Micru
> > > >
> > > > ___
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> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short test

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
I like it too, actually better than the earlier one. Looks good on the
tablet; can be clicked away (the X seems to be a little fable).
Kind regards,
Ziko


Peter Southwood  schrieb am Mi. 15. Nov. 2017
um 08:16:

> The sidebar version is less offensive than the top banner on my widescreen
> desktop. The message and text sizing is also better in the sidebar version
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Samuel Patton
> Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2017 12:13 AM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] A fundraising banner we'd like to try in a short
> test
>
> Hi all, it's Sam from the online fundraising team. I wanted to give you a
> heads up about a desktop banner we'd like to test before the official
> launch of our 'Big English' fundraising banner campaign on Tuesday,
> November 28.
>
> TL;DR: A short test of a new banner concept will help us decide if it's
> worth iteration and improvement.
>
> Here's a link to the banner:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=dsk_p1_lg_right10&country=US&force=1
>
> This banner would run against our current best desktop large banner;
> here's that link:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple?banner=B1718_1101_en6C_dsk_p1_lg_template&force=1&country=US
>
> Undoubtedly, it's an unusual format; that's why we felt it appropriate to
> give you a heads up :) We haven't tried a vertical 'banner on the side' in
> recent memory, and it'll be useful to see exactly how this type of content
> performs.
>
> This test would run for 1 to 2 hours, and then we'd evaluate results to
> see if it's worth spending any more time on the concept. For now, we're
> simply hiding the banner all together below 920px, as at smaller viewports
> it begins to interfere with site navigation elements.
>
> If you have thoughts on this design, please share them here. There will be
> more opportunities for you to weigh in if this banner variant looks
> promising enough to keep testing.
>
> Regards and sincere thanks for all you do.
>
> Sam
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Sandra,

Thank you for your mail. For me, this is not specifically about Guillaume.
I referred to him as he has answered to me about "oral traditions",
supporting them.

I know that the way to this text was a long one; I have read papers on this
way and was appalled. Now I find it difficult not to believe that this is a
slippery slope.

Kind regards,
Ziko






2017-10-21 18:14 GMT+02:00 Sandra Rientjes - Wikimedia Nederland <
rient...@wikimedia.nl>:

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Just a quick reaction to the last sentence of your message where you
> express your concern about oral traditions as a source and say 'Guillaume
> emphasized that he still wants to go this way.'
>
> To some, this could give the impression that Guillaume is responsible for
> what went in the text and what did not.  As Katherine mentioned in her
> message, drafting the strategic direction was a group process. (FYI, I was
> part of that group)  Guillaume had the unenviable task of making sense of
> all the suggestions, input and comments, and produce meaningful and
> readable text.  Frankly, I don't know anyone who could have done that job
> better. So, it is not so much that 'Guillaume still wants to go this way',
> but rather 'the drafting group believes the movement-wide consultation
> points this way.'
>
> I understand your concerns - and I know that they come from your deep
> commitment to the quality and the reliability of the Wikimedia projects.
> Your comments have already started some interesting discussions - on this
> list and in other places - about how oral traditions/sources could and
> should be used in a responsible way.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Sandra Rientjes
> Directeur/Executive Director Wikimedia Nederland
>
>
>
> 2017-10-21 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk :
>
> > Hello Nicole,
> >
> > Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people
> might
> > think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
> > both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the
> rest
> > is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
> > influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
> > is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.
> >
> > For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
> > the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go
> this
> > way.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :
> >
> > > Hi Ziko,
> > >
> > > Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> > > endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> > > underneath with the next steps.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > > On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> > >
> > > > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every
> > individual
> > > > and
> > > > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in
> > which
> > > > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> > > >
> > > >- Appendix
> > > ><https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> > > >More information about the process, research, and findings that
> led
> > to
> > > > this
> > > >outcome.
> > > >- A report of findings
> > > ><https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > movement/2017/Findings>
> > > >is being written and many references on this page will be updated
> to
> > > > point
> > > >to its content.
> > > >
> > > > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> > > people
> > > > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ziko
&g

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Nicole,

Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people might
think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the rest
is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.

For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go this
way.

Kind regards
Ziko




2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> underneath with the next steps.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Nicole
>
> On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> >
> > >
> > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual
> > and
> > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > >
> >
> > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in which
> > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > community.
> >
> > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> >
> >- Appendix
> ><https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> >More information about the process, research, and findings that led to
> > this
> >outcome.
> >- A report of findings
> ><https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Findings>
> >is being written and many references on this page will be updated to
> > point
> >to its content.
> >
> > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> people
> > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors
> > and
> > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > movement.
> > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction
> > and
> > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> find
> > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > >
> > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
> > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will
> be
> > to
> > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> which
> > > means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the
> activities
> > it
> > > involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on
> > Meta.
> > > Take a look! [2]
> > >
> > > On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office
> space
> > > at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff
> > who
> > > was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
> > > patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are
> > more
> > > settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new
> space
> > > on the Wikimedia Blog.
> > >
> > > Stay tuned!
> > >
> > > መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),
> > >
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
> > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
> > > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@li

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :

>
> I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual and
> entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
>

Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in which
ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
community.

I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:

   - Appendix
   
:
   More information about the process, research, and findings that led to this
   outcome.
   - A report of findings
   
   is being written and many references on this page will be updated to point
   to its content.

Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will people
who endorse the document also endorse them?

Kind regards,

Ziko










> Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors and
> organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our movement.
> I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction and
> determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will find
> more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> direction’s meta page next week.
>
> The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
> drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will be to
> answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction", which
> means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the activities it
> involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on Meta.
> Take a look! [2]
>
> On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office space
> at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff who
> was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
> patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are more
> settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new space
> on the Wikimedia Blog.
>
> Stay tuned!
>
> መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),
>
> Katherine
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
> [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Lodewijk and Charles,

I am now quickly responding after arriving in my hotel. The question
whether it is about Wikipedia or about knowledge - I am not sure, but I
think that it is a very useful, structuring question.

About „oral traditions“. I don‘t have my books here, but I give you an
example what I mean. I remember the case (I hope correctly) from Johannes
Fried, Der Schleier der Erinnerung.

There was a territory in Africa, occupied by the British in the 19th
century. Shortly after, they wanted to learn more about this territory.
There were no history books, but they asked the inhabitants. For example,
why is this territory divided in seven provinces. The British got the
answer: Once there was a king. He had seven sons. So he divided the
territory into seven provinces, each for every son.

Time went by. The British colonial rule changed the administrative division
of the territory. They reduced the number of provinces from seven to five.
Decades later, in the 20th century, the colonial rule came to an end.
Shortly before that, the British asked the inhabitants about the territory
again. They got to hear: Once there was a king. He had five sons. So he
divided the territory into five provinces.

The human brain and memory, and collective memory, are not unchangeble
unlike paper. They adapt. The human brain is not made to record data for
historians but to deal with life. You cannot remember everything. When
needed, your brain builds up a new story from remembered fragments and
tries to keep the new story coherent with present information.

About an „oral traditions“ project outside of Wikipedia: It has been
proposed. But it will encounter problems like any other platform for „oral
history“. It is a lot of work, it can attract extremists, and you have to
make sure that the content is actually usuable for historians or other
scientists (e.g., the person speaking must be identified correctly). And,
of course, the testimonials have to undergo the same scrutiny as any other
historical source. In my experience most scientists prefer to interview
people by themselves, under their own conditions, and being the first to
use the material.

Kind regards,
Ziko





Lodewijk  schrieb am Mi. 4. Okt. 2017 um 22:11:

> And that is where the broader Wikimedia movement could come in, to provide
> that pipeline of rigor and reliability, right? I don't know a solution
> either, but the question for the strategy is not whether we have a solution
> right now. The question would be whether the movement should work towards
> finding a solution through our ecosystem (or even beyond), and support
> that. Maybe at the end of this process, some information may end up on
> Wikipedia - if the process proves to be reliable enough. And maybe not.
>
> I also agree with the nuance by Charles, that we're talking about many
> different types of knowledge - some of which may be more suitable than
> others.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Yaroslav Blanter 
> wrote:
>
> > Yes, but if oral tradition is recorded at the academic standard, why
> should
> > we be the first publication venue? Usually these people just publish
> books
> > in academic publishing houses.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:51 PM, Peter Southwood <
> > peter.southw...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> > > There may be a way to do it on another project designed for the
> purpose,
> > > but that cannot be English Wikipedia, and I doubt that any project that
> > > allows anonymous editing could manage it credibly. Oral tradition would
> > at
> > > least have to be sourced to the teller, and would have to be recorded
> by
> > a
> > > reliable and identified recorder, who can be held responsible for their
> > due
> > > diligence. This would not be an easy thing for a crowdsourced project,
> > but
> > > anything less would be like a magnet for everything we don't want.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Chandres Wikipedia
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 04 October 2017 9:25 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update -
> > > Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)
> > >
> > > I do not have a perfect solution to introduce oral traditions in
> > Wikipedia
> > > today, but I’m convince that we need to find a way to do it.
> > >
> > > Just to give you an illustration:
> > >
> > > Today ,a significative amount of African topics in the Wikipedia in
> > French
> > > rely only on the work of only few French historian. Without saying they
> > are
> > > not honest, I find difficult to consider that there words have really
> so
> > > more value than the words of the Ancient of the African tribes.
> > >
> > > We know for sure than oral tradition will include bias, but do not
> forget
> > > that the «  traditional western historian work » are not

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Strategy] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

[Ziko van Dijk]

pression.
>
> You argue that the notions of new forms of knowledge, oral traditions, and
> Western bias were pushed by experts and by the Foundation, and didn't come
> from the communities. And yet, at the 2017 Wikimedia conference in Berlin,
> whose participants were coming from Wikimedia communities, the
> most-voted-for statement at the end of the conference was this one:
>
> *Knowledge is global: we must move beyond western written knowledge,
> towards multiple and diverse forms of knowledge (including oral and
> visual), from multiple and diverse peoples and perspectives, to truly
> achieve the sum of all human knowledge.*
> [
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2017/Documentation/Movement_Strategy_track/Day_3
> ]
>
> What I am trying to convey is that for each of your concerns, there are
> people within our movement and communities who have fought, like you are
> fighting now, for those elements to be part of the movement's strategic
> direction. And they have outweighed you. On some other topics, your opinion
> is the one that prevailed. On many topics, we all agreed. It is now time to
> accept the outcome and focus on what motivates us to contribute
> individually to parts of the strategic direction, so that we can advance as
> a movement.
>
>
>
>
> 2017-10-03 13:38 GMT-07:00 Ziko van Dijk :
>
> > Hello Guillaume,
> >
> > Thank you for sharing your point of view. But I cannot agree with you
> that
> > this is a case of „negativity bias“ or „tunnel visions“ or „begrudging
> > fashion“. I have fundamental concerns about the redefinition of the
> > community and the widening of the movement‘s purpose, and I fully join
> > Frank Schulenburg‘s statement that the draft paper says hardly anything
> to
> > the average Wikipedian.
> >
> > As I do not know your prerogatives given from above, I cannot judge about
> > your personal role. I don’t want to and I have nothing against you
> > personally, on the contrary. Indeed, you took some of the most terrible
> > things from the paper - such as the „oral traditions“. But they still
> > appear as a residue in the „Appendix“, and how could it happen in the
> first
> > place that they were ever pushed forward by the WMF? Challenge 2 called
> our
> > work with reputable sources a „Western bias“. Where did that come from?
> Not
> > from the communities (my definition), but from „experts“ such as a man
> who
> > runs a company for storytelling and claims that he can trace his ancestry
> > to the middle ages via „oral traditions“!
> >
> > As Andreas pointed out, there is much more in the Appendix such as the
> > cooperations with Youtube and Google, „new incentives“ etc. and also the
> > opinion that „Wikimedia“ should become more „political“. Certainly, I was
> > against SOPA and like to see the WMF fight copyright problems. But what I
> > saw at Wikimania made me wonder about the common ground. The WMF is
> > partnering up with the ACLU that endorses the freedom of speech for the
> > KuKluxKlan. The WMF is already approaching EU laws from an American point
> > of view and dismisses the possibility that Europeans may think
> differently.
> >
> > If we keep all those things in the draft paper and in the Appendix - the
> > WMF will have carte blanche to do literally anything it likes, being a
> > social movement fighting whatever technical, political or social
> inequity.
> > But well, the WMF will claim that that is what the „community“ wants -
> > given the new definition of community, that would even be true. :-(
> >
> > Certainly, people can set up a page on Meta to express their concerns
> > about such an unready draft paper. Is this an announcement that
> > endorsements of the draft paper will be welcomed at the main gate, while
> > the concerns will have to use the backyard entrance?
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Guillaume Paumier  schrieb am Mo. 2. Okt. 2017
> um
> > 22:36:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> If you feel a strong urge to reject the text, there is obviously nothing
> >> preventing anyone from creating a Meta-Wiki page to that purpose.
> However,
> >> I would first ask to reflect on the process, its outcome, and where it's
> >> going.
> >>
> >> Strategy is complicated. Building a movement strategy even more so [
> >> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/05/19/wikimedia-strategy-
> >> 2030-discussions/
> >> ]. One person's serious issue may be another person's slight preference

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

[Ziko van Dijk]

w weeks that even getting to this stage of the
> process is remarkable. As Wikimedians, we often focus on what's wrong and
> needs fixing. Sometimes, our negativity bias leads us to lose focus of the
> accomplishments. This can clash with the typical American culture, but I
> think somewhere in the middle is where those respective tunnel visions
> widen and meet.
>
> One thing I've learned from Ed Bland, my co-architect during this process,
> is that sometimes things can't be perfect. Sometimes, excellence means
> recognizing when something is "good enough" and getting out of the
> asymptotic editing and decision paralysis loop. It means accepting that a
> few things annoy us so that a larger group of people is excited and
> motivated to participate.
>
> From everything I've heard and read in the past two months, the last
> version of the direction is agreeable to a large part of individuals,
> groups, and organizations that have been involved in the process. Not
> everyone agrees with everything in the document, even within the
> Foundation, and even me. But enough people across the movement agree with
> enough of the document that we can all use it as a starting point for the
> next phase of discussions about roles, resources, and responsibilities.
>
> I do hope that many of you will consider endorsing the direction in a few
> weeks. While I won't claim to know everyone involved, I think I know you
> enough, Ziko and Fæ, from your work and long-time commitment in the
> movement, to venture that there is more in this document that you agree
> with than that you disagree with. I hope that the prospect of moving in a
> shared direction will outweigh the possible annoyances. And so I hope that
> we'll endorse the direction together, even if it's in our typically
> Wikimedian begrudging fashion.
>
>
> 2017-10-02 6:56 GMT-07:00 Ziko van Dijk :
>
> > Hello Katherine,
> >
> > This is actually sad news. In my opinion, the draft is far away from
> being
> > a useful and appropriate document for our future.
> >
> > The serious issues from the talk page are only partially addressed in the
> > rewrite. So I contest your claim: "The version on Meta-Wiki is based on
> the
> > feedback you offered."
> >
> > You have announced that organizations and individuals are invited to
> > endorse the draft. Will there also be a possibility to reject the draft?
> I
> > remember the 2011 image filter referendum, when the WMF asked the
> community
> > how important it finds the filter, but not giving the option to be
> against
> > it.
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image_filter_referendum/en&;
> > uselang=en
> > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image_filter_referendum/en&uselang=en
> >
> >
> > The drafts tries to enforce a new definition of the "community": "from
> > editors to donors, to organizers, and beyond". I thought that "community"
> > were people who are contributing to the wiki Wikipedia on a regular basis
> > as volunteers.
> >
> > I am very positive of having an open Wikimedia *movement*. But if in
> future
> > more or less everybody will be *community*: that is in fact abolishing
> the
> > community.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Ziko van Dijk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-09-30 22:28 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Since my update last month, we have been collecting, processing, and
> > > including your most recent input into the lastest version of the
> movement
> > > strategic direction. This version is available on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > >
> > > We're so close! The direction will be finalized tomorrow, October 1.
> > > Starting tomorrow, we will begin to invite individuals and groups to
> > > endorse our movement's strategic direction. I want to share my greatest
> > > thanks and appreciation for the work and contributions so many of you
> > have
> > > made throughout this first phase (Phase 1) of developing a shared
> > strategic
> > > direction.
> > >
> > > In the coming weeks we will be preparing for Phase 2, which will
> involve
> > > developing specific plans for how we achieve the direction we have
> built
> > > together. I do not have many more details to share right now, but will
> of
> > > course offer an update as they become available.
> > >
> > > *Strategic direction*. Thank you to everyone who provided feedback on
> the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Joseph,

We must distinguish between the community, the movement and partners of the
movement.

The Wikimedia movement is not a community, it consists of several
communities. Such as the community of Wikipedia in French, of Wikidata or
of Mediawiki.org.

Staffers of the WMF are part of the movement, as the WMF is part of the
movement, as a chapter is part of the movement. Individual staff members or
chapter board members can belong to communities.

Donors can be part of the movement, if they like to see themselves as such.
I doubt that many people who donate 10 euros think of themselves as
"community".

Staff from our GLAM partners are partners, not community, not movement.

I wonder if the WMF will say in future "we asked the community and it
approved it", what will be the meaning of "the community"?

Kind regards
Ziko





2017-10-02 16:12 GMT+02:00 Joseph Seddon :

> Based on your definition of community does that mean that mediawiki
> developers are not part of the Wikimedia community?
>
> Are people who volunteer in the real world or teachers who incorporate
> Wikipedia into their classes not part of the Wikimedia community?
>
> Members of staff of GLAM institutions who we partner with and who
> evangelise on our behalf? Are they not part of the Wikimedia community?
>
> This more inclusive definition has long been used by some affiliates.
>
> To exclude these individuals would be against the very values of openness
> that we claim to represent and to be blunt, simply alienating.
>
> Seddon
>
> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 3:10 PM, Fæ  wrote:
>
> > Ziko's point may not fit the rigid Americanocentric ideal of everything
> > must be positive, fantastic, yeehaw-we-are-number-one, but he's spot on
> > with how the foundations remain flawed.
> >
> > Only ever hearing congratulations and thanks can get you to a win, but
> will
> > never keep you there.
> >
> > Return to the talk page and use the criticism to help meaningful
> > improvements, please.
> >
> > Fae
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LGBT+
> > http://telegram.me/wmlgbt
> >
> > On 2 Oct 2017 14:56, "Ziko van Dijk"  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Katherine,
> >
> > This is actually sad news. In my opinion, the draft is far away from
> being
> > a useful and appropriate document for our future.
> >
> > The serious issues from the talk page are only partially addressed in the
> > rewrite. So I contest your claim: "The version on Meta-Wiki is based on
> the
> > feedback you offered."
> >
> > You have announced that organizations and individuals are invited to
> > endorse the draft. Will there also be a possibility to reject the draft?
> I
> > remember the 2011 image filter referendum, when the WMF asked the
> community
> > how important it finds the filter, but not giving the option to be
> against
> > it.
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image_filter_referendum/en&;
> > uselang=en
> >
> > The drafts tries to enforce a new definition of the "community": "from
> > editors to donors, to organizers, and beyond". I thought that "community"
> > were people who are contributing to the wiki Wikipedia on a regular basis
> > as volunteers.
> >
> > I am very positive of having an open Wikimedia *movement*. But if in
> future
> > more or less everybody will be *community*: that is in fact abolishing
> the
> > community.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Ziko van Dijk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-09-30 22:28 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Since my update last month, we have been collecting, processing, and
> > > including your most recent input into the lastest version of the
> movement
> > > strategic direction. This version is available on Meta-Wiki.[1]
> > >
> > > We're so close! The direction will be finalized tomorrow, October 1.
> > > Starting tomorrow, we will begin to invite individuals and groups to
> > > endorse our movement's strategic direction. I want to share my greatest
> > > thanks and appreciation for the work and contributions so many of you
> > have
> > > made throughout this first phase (Phase 1) of developing a shared
> > strategic
> > > direction.
> > >
> > > In the coming weeks we will be preparing for Phase 2, which will
> involve
> > > developing specific plans for how we achieve the direction we have
> built
> > > together. I do not have many more details to share righ

Re: [Wikimedia-l] September 28: Strategy update - Final draft of movement direction and endorsement process (#25)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Katherine,

This is actually sad news. In my opinion, the draft is far away from being
a useful and appropriate document for our future.

The serious issues from the talk page are only partially addressed in the
rewrite. So I contest your claim: "The version on Meta-Wiki is based on the
feedback you offered."

You have announced that organizations and individuals are invited to
endorse the draft. Will there also be a possibility to reject the draft? I
remember the 2011 image filter referendum, when the WMF asked the community
how important it finds the filter, but not giving the option to be against
it.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image_filter_referendum/en&;
uselang=en

The drafts tries to enforce a new definition of the "community": "from
editors to donors, to organizers, and beyond". I thought that "community"
were people who are contributing to the wiki Wikipedia on a regular basis
as volunteers.

I am very positive of having an open Wikimedia *movement*. But if in future
more or less everybody will be *community*: that is in fact abolishing the
community.

Kind regards,
Ziko van Dijk





2017-09-30 22:28 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :

> Hi all,
>
> Since my update last month, we have been collecting, processing, and
> including your most recent input into the lastest version of the movement
> strategic direction. This version is available on Meta-Wiki.[1]
>
> We're so close! The direction will be finalized tomorrow, October 1.
> Starting tomorrow, we will begin to invite individuals and groups to
> endorse our movement's strategic direction. I want to share my greatest
> thanks and appreciation for the work and contributions so many of you have
> made throughout this first phase (Phase 1) of developing a shared strategic
> direction.
>
> In the coming weeks we will be preparing for Phase 2, which will involve
> developing specific plans for how we achieve the direction we have built
> together. I do not have many more details to share right now, but will of
> course offer an update as they become available.
>
> *Strategic direction*. Thank you to everyone who provided feedback on the
> draft introduced at Wikimania. The version on Meta-Wiki is based on the
> feedback you offered.
>
> *Endorsements*. Once the strategic direction closes tomorrow,
> organizations, groups, and individuals within the movement will be invited
> to endorse the direction, in a show of support for the future we are
> building together. We'll be sending an update next week on the process and
> timeline.
>
> *Concluding Phase 1*. Please join me in offering thanks to the volunteers,
> staff, and contractors who came together to make this possible! As we
> transition into Phase 2, some of these roles will be concluded and new ones
> created in their place. We'll keep you updated.
>
> *Wikimedia CEE Meeting 2017*. I was fortunate to join Wikimedians from
> Central and Eastern Europe (CEE) last weekend at the sixth annual Wikimedia
> CEE Meeting[2] in Warsaw, Poland. Nicole Ebber and Kaarel Vaidla led a
> series of discussions on the direction, including what it means for CEE.[3]
> Thank you our hosts, Wikimedia Polska, and to all of the attendees for such
> a wonderful event!
>
> *In other news.* I've heard from many people how much you appreciate these
> updates as a means of keeping track about what is going on. I'm talking to
> the Communications department about keeping them going once the strategic
> planning process concludes, with a focus on more general updates. Keep the
> feedback coming.
>
> Since my last update, our planet has reminded us of its incredible and
> often unforgiving strength. My thoughts, and those of many within the
> Wikimedia Foundation, are with our Wikimedia family which have been
> affected by the natural disasters of recent weeks. We have been in touch
> with our affiliates in the areas impacted, and will offer any support we
> can.
>
> Finally, as our CFO Jaime mentioned last week,[3] the Foundation is in the
> process of moving into our new office, in One Montgomery Tower. We invite
> you to visit its new page on Meta-Wiki.[4]
>
> We are at the halfway mark of this movement strategy process, and I am
> incredibly proud of the work we have done together on the strategy. Thank
> you, again, to everyone for your contributions to this process. We have
> more work ahead but should be proud of what we have achieved already.
>
> Ten cuidado (Spanish translation: “Be safe”),
>
> Katherine
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Direction
> [2]  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CEE_Meeting_2017
> [3]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CEE_meeting_2017

Re: [Wikimedia-l] New style banner - A heads up

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Just a general remark.

It is actually possible to create a huge website with a lot of content,
even if you are commercial. Wikia (or "Fandom powered by Wikia) is an
example, Baidu Baike another one. Maybe its not exactly the same (sort of)
people who contribute. But I find it highly speculative that a for-profit
organization cannot make a wiki encyclopedia a success, by principle.

Having that said, I personally am very happy that Wikipedia's owner is a
non profit organization. But we should not be too self-secure about our
position - a possible "Wikipedia killer" in future could indeed come from a
commercial organization. That is one important point of the discussion
around the Wikimedia strategy, that we understand that 'we' are not
'invincible'.

Kind regards,
Ziko



Peter Southwood  schrieb am Fr. 25. Aug. 2017
um 17:51:

> We should not sink to "alternative facts" Not even to the American public,
> who seem to be accustomed to them. We should provide a better example.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Sam Wilson
> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:38 AM
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] New style banner - A heads up
>
> Peter,
>
> Fair enough, I agree that the idea that Wikimedia would have been a
> success if it'd be made commercial is crazy. "Has it crossed my mind how
> much we could have made if it had ads? Sure. But it wouldn’t be the same."
> reads to me as just a hypothetical "if it were as it is today
> *and* had ads", rather than any serious suggestion that that would ever
> have been the case. I reckon it makes sense to the non-editor people it's
> aimed at.
>
> Anyway, about my grammar nickpicking? ;-)
>
> —Sam
>
> On Thu, 24 Aug 2017, at 05:06 PM, Peter Southwood wrote:
> > Sam,
> > I can't get back to the banner for some reason, so I risk misquoting it.
> > Please take this into account.
> > What I find offensive is the implication that the foundation would
> > even have Wikipedia if they were doing it commercially. I and a
> > significant number of other contributors would not have helped make it
> > what it is today if it had been a commercial site. To support this
> > opinion, there do not appear to be any commercial projects of this
> > type even vaguely approaching the success of Wikipedia. The banner
> > implies that there would be a roughly equivalent project available to
> > sell. This I find offensive as it denigrates the voluntary
> > contributions done by all the unpaid contributors.
> > I see this as misrepresentation and disrespect to the crowd that is
> > the source of the product, therefore offensive.
> > It is possible that I am alone in this opinion, but I suggest that a
> > survey of the people who actually created and maintain the content of
> > Wikipedia would show that I am not.
> > At this point, I suggest that WMF do just that, run a survey to find
> > out who builds the encyclopaedia, and how they feel about this. The
> > golden rule of crowdsourcing is don’t alienate the crowd, especially
> > when they are doing your work for free. The one thing we ask in return
> > for our work is a little recognition and respect, and to know that we
> > do a thing intrinsically worth doing. Again, I realise I do not
> > necessarily speak for everyone, but suspect that I speak for many.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Sam Wilson
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:26 AM
> > To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] New style banner - A heads up
> >
> > "Offensive" seems a bit over the top! Who's it offending? Seems pretty
> > okay to me, personally. :-)
> >
> > Anyway, the only thing I notice with it is that it starts with "We
> > will..." and then says "When I made..." etc. Shouldn't these pronouns
> > agree?
> >
> > —Sam.
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Aug 2017, at 04:07 PM, Peter Southwood wrote:
> > > The old style is excessively large and in your face. The new style
> > > is almost, but not quite as bad. The content remains offensive and
> > > misleading Cheers, Peter
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Joseph Seddon
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 5:02 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: [Wikimedia-l] New style banner - A heads up
> > >
> > > Hey Wikimedia-l
> > >
> > > Apologies for the short notice.
> > >
> > > I wanted to give you a heads up on a banner test that will soon be
> > > going live.
> > >
> > > We've been working on a new style of banner that is specifically
> > > designed to have the same native look and feel as the rest of the
> > > site and interface. It's intended to be understated and you'll see
> > > is very different to our currently best performing banner:
> > >
> > > Cu

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Advertizing Wikimania (youtube) livestreams on centralnotice

[Ziko van Dijk]

Just briefly a short comment: visitors should be approached with messages
especially created for them. I am always sceptical of simply re-using a
content made for one context/audience for another context/audience.
Kind regards
Ziko

2017-08-19 9:25 GMT+02:00 K. Peachey :

> I notice those youtube links didn't use the nocookie domain or display
> warnings about external youtube links, example being the previous WP
> Zero Petition 
>
> On 18 August 2017 at 22:45, Lodewijk  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Wikimania is well over, and now that everyone is slowly getting home, I'd
> > like to touch on a hallway discussion that was going on during Wikimania.
> > This was regarding the centralnotice banners advertizing a livestream of
> > Katherine's and Christophe's presentation of the draft direction for the
> > 2030 strategy.
> >
> > First a few quick facts:
> > The banners were on Fri 11 Aug shown for 1,5 hour in 'emergency mode' on
> > all English language projects (including Commons, meta) to all logged in,
> > anonimous and mobile visitors. The campaigns can be found here
> >  CentralNotice&subaction=noticeDetail¬ice=WikimaniaLive>,
> > here
> >  CentralNotice&subaction=noticeDetail¬ice=WikimaniaLiveLoggedin>and
> > here
> >  CentralNotice&subaction=noticeDetail¬ice=WikimaniaLiveMobile>,
> > for reference. The text in the banner was "Where will Wikipedia and
> > Wikimedia be in 2030? Find out LIVE from Montreal" with a link to a
> youtube
> > page with a stream  .
> >
> > I was quite taken by surprise with this, and taken aback. Here we were,
> the
> > Wikimedia community telling all these visitors of Wikipedia and other
> > projects that we are so important, that we should have them watch a
> > presentation of a first draft of a direction of a strategy that still
> needs
> > to be worked out. Not only was the text in the banner a bit misleading (I
> > didn't see much crystal bowl gazing - but rather a statement of where we
> > would like to go - but soit, I can overlook that), but it feels
> especially
> > pretentious to me. Maybe this is a cultural matter, and in other cultures
> > this kind of bragging (which is what it feels like to me) is normal.
> >
> > I could have understood an advertizement of this and other sessions to
> our
> > logged in community members - that would actually have been a nice way of
> > engaging them in an expensive conference that we would like more online
> > audience to be part of. But only this session, and then all visitors of
> > Wikimedia projects? No, thanks.
> >
> > Totally separate of the message displayed and whether we want to show it
> to
> > this kind of large audience, I was surprised that this link was pointing
> to
> > Youtube. This goes against our policies on Centralnotice
> > ,
> stating:
> > "Wikimedia Owned - Banners must link to Wikimedia controlled domains
> (owned
> > either by Wikimedia Foundation, Wikimedia affiliates or Wikimedia
> > Volunteers identified to the Wikimedia Foundation)." I guess there is a
> > very remote interpretation possible that the channel is owned by the
> > Wikimedia Foundation, and I did not see any indication that Youtube was
> > running ads on that particular channel.
> >
> > I was unable to locate any community discussions or consultation about
> > this. Could someone at the WMF share where this was discussed prior to
> the
> > decision, and could they explain their reasoning? I'm not looking to
> blame
> > anyone for this - shit happens - but I would like to see some discussion
> on
> > what we want and dont want to do in this field, so that we can actually
> > learn from this exercise. I was told in (very rapid and somewhat
> unwilling)
> > hallway discussions that this was signed off by multiple layers of
> > management at the WMF, so I assume some documented reasoning and
> > consultation is available.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lodewijk
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

[Ziko van Dijk]

The number of pillars depends on the language version...
And whether some rules is called pilöar not dpes not seem to be pf much
importance
Ziko

John Erling Blad  schrieb am Do. 3. Aug. 2017 um 14:42:

> Five pillars are moot.
>
> On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
> > The moment you have a centralised policy you take away the ability to
> > discuss, makes decisions, and achieve consensus from the community that
> > create the projects. Importantly you create the opportunity for banned
> and
> > blocked editors to decide what happens in a community.
> >
> > By having a base set of simple policies in the Incubator that are
> > atuomatically created when a project starts up you give them the best
> guide
> > to establishing themselves well before that project goes live, ince a
> > project is live it has to be allowed to develop its community.
> >
> > We already have the 5 pillars which are the basis for the projects, but
> > meta is not a place that the content creating community spends a lot of
> > time.
> >
> > On 3 August 2017 at 19:07, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> >
> > > Having centralized core policies would lessen the maintenance and
> > process,
> > > not increase them.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Strainu  wrote:
> > >
> > > > The core policies should be the ones pushed by board resolution, and
> > > > those should be the absolute minimum required to keep the projects
> > > > safe from a legal POV. Period. Otherwise, people with little
> > > > understanding of small Wikipedias will try to push stuff from en.wp.
> > > > Just recently someone was trying to have an RFC on meta on all the
> > > > different processes that en.wp has and ro.wp does not have, with
> > > > little consideration on whether the manpower to implement, let alone
> > > > maintain, these processes exists. No thank you to rule pushing
> without
> > > > local context.
> > > >
> > > > Having a community take a rule from en.wp is different, just as long
> > > > as some kind of discussion happens within the community about it.
> Even
> > > > if the rule is really useless or harmful and the community did not
> > > > realize that in the beginning, at least it can evolve differently
> from
> > > > the English one. Have a centralized repository and trying to change
> > > > the rules there by consensus would be much more difficult for small
> > > > communities.
> > > >
> > > > Strainu
> > > >
> > > > 2017-08-02 17:05 GMT+03:00 John Erling Blad :
> > > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > > policies,
> > > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of
> the
> > > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial
> policies.
> > It
> > > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > > something
> > > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> > simply
> > > be
> > > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> > should
> > > > be
> > > > > localized if necessary.
> > > > >
> > > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > > >
> > > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > > >
> > > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > > baseline
> > > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > > Perhaps
> > > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> > research"
> > > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be
> about
> > > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some
> projects
> > > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators
> point
> > of
> > > > > view"…
> > > > >
> > > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > > policies
> > > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > > pages,
> > > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects
> would
> > > have
> > > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeblad
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Core content policy

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello, i wrote something about a comparison of conent policies and will
have a presentation at wikicon, but at the momemt i am not at my home
computer.
Kind regards ziko

John Erling Blad  schrieb am Mi. 2. Aug. 2017 um 18:19:

> I wonder if deviation away from a central core policy should be banned.
> That view is probably not very popular.
>
> Jeblad
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
> > its nice idea most just usurp the english policies to start with anyway
> > when they need it so having a base line on meta would be good though
> > probably it would best to have it set up automatically in the incubator
> > stage so that they get moved across when the projects takes the big leap
> > forward and the community that develops the project can develop these
> > policies as they grow.   It also means that as part of the jump these
> pages
> > will need to have been translated as well.
> >
> > note I'm currently involved with a wikipedia in the the incubator
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2 August 2017 at 22:29, Tito Dutta  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Some works and study was done for Indic Wikimedia projects (there are
> 24
> > > communities) after a detailed consultation and needs-assessment, please
> > > see:
> > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Indic_Wikipedia_
> > > Policies_and_Guidelines_Handbook.pdf
> > > There are three types of issues:
> > > a) Localizing policies (translating is not the only way, but localizing
> > > keeping a project in mind)
> > > b) Enforce them
> > > c) For smaller communities having a group of editors working on these
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Tito Dutta
> > > Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to
> > remind
> > > me over email or phone call.
> > >
> > > On 2 August 2017 at 19:35, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nearly all Wikipedia projects has virtually the same core content
> > > policies,
> > > > but with slightly different wording. Nearly all, because a lot of the
> > > > smaller lacks them, and a lot has outdated or only partial policies.
> It
> > > > takes a lot of time to actually make them and keep them updated.
> > > >
> > > > Creating and maintaining the core content policies should not be
> > > something
> > > > that small projects should invest a lot of time in, they should
> simply
> > be
> > > > able to point to existing policies on Meta. The central policies
> should
> > > be
> > > > localized if necessary.
> > > >
> > > > Checking Meta I find
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_no_original_research_policy
> > > > - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Neutral_point_of_view
> > > >
> > > > I can't find anything like "Verifiability".
> > > >
> > > > Would it be possible for Wikimedia Foundation to make some sound
> > baseline
> > > > policies, and with the option for local projects to refine those?
> > Perhaps
> > > > with assistance from editors on Wikipedia?
> > > >
> > > > Lets try to make the policies accurate, without "no original
> research"
> > > > diverging into verifiability of external sources. It should be about
> > > > original research in content on Wikipedia. Likewise, at some projects
> > > > neutral point of view has become "do not diverge from creators point
> of
> > > > view"…
> > > >
> > > > Would this be possible? It would be really nice if those baseline
> > > policies
> > > > pages could be copied to the individual projects like central user
> > pages,
> > > > so they would be "internal" to the projects. Thus the projects would
> > have
> > > > more "ownership" of them.
> > > >
> > > > The same thing apply to other meta projects (Wikipedia, Wikibooks,
> > > > Wiktionary, etc).
> > > >
> > > > Jeblad
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
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> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Videos of sessions at Vienna Hackathon and WikiCite

[Ziko van Dijk]

Yes, thanks Andrew! A much welcome enlargement of the audience. I was very
happy to watch.
Kind regards
Ziko

2017-05-24 22:55 GMT+02:00 Leila Zia :

> Hi all,
>
> I could not make it to Vienna for the Hackathon [1] and WikiCite [2]
> and I was happy to see that Andrew Lih has been doing some serious
> recordings [3] of the sessions. I watched the Showcase Talks [4] from
> the third day of the Hackathon which gave a nice overview of
> everything that had happened there. Sharing the links here in case
> some of you are interested to watch them as well.
>
> Thanks, Andrew! :)
>
> Best,
> Leila
>
> --
> Leila Zia
> Senior Research Scientist
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> [1]
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Hackathon_2017
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiCite_2017
> [3]
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLN4mEhpy3b8RsYfokuzsBGnw-_KVDSfX_
> [4]
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQDSd9ewjSw&index=3&list=
> PLN4mEhpy3b8RsYfokuzsBGnw-_KVDSfX_
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] machine translation

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
This seems to me like a social problem, rather than a technical one.
Shutting down the tool would be a disadvantage for those people who benefit
from the tool and do good things with it.
What is the general opinion among the Norwegians about this issue? Is there
consent about how to deal with this kind of "articles"? If most people
agree they should be speedy-deleted, this would be a useful deterrence for
those who are not careful enough when using the tool?
Kind regards
Ziko



2017-05-03 13:22 GMT+02:00 John Erling Blad :

> Agree! I also wonder if translators adapt to specific errors if they are
> repeated to often. I wonder if it works like priming the brain to a
> specific pattern.
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
> > Reading this, I get a strong impression the problem may very well be in
> > setting expectations for the users of this translation tool. If they
> expect
> > the automated translation to be rather good, they may get fed up more
> > easily than when they consider it primarily a glorified dictionary.
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:06 PM, David Cuenca Tudela 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Perhaps it would be a good idea to compare the translated text to the
> > text
> > > that the user wants to save.
> > >
> > > If they are more than 95% the same, that means that the user didn't
> take
> > > the effort to correct the text.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Micru
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Wojciech Pędzich 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > It does depend a lot on the engagement level of the human behind the
> > > > keyboard. When I deal with machine-translated text, I simply wonder
> > > whether
> > > > the someone behind the keyboard took efforts to actually read the
> > piece.
> > > >
> > > > Now whether this would work if limited to namespaces outside "main"
> - I
> > > do
> > > > not want to demonise the issue, but if the person submitting the text
> > for
> > > > machine translation does not read it, what will stop them from a
> quick
> > > > ctrl+c / ctrl+v? Just asking.
> > > >
> > > > Wojciech
> > > >
> > > > W dniu 2017-05-03 o 09:33, Yaroslav Blanter pisze:
> > > >
> > > > Creating machine translations only in the draft space (or in the user
> > > space
> > > >> in the projects which do not have draft) could help.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers
> > > >> Yaroslav
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Pharos <
> pharosofalexand...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I think it all depends on the level of engagement of the human
> > > translator.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> When the tool is used in the right way, it is a fantastic tool.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Maybe we can find better methods to nudge people toward taking
> their
> > > time
> > > >>> and really doing work on their translations.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Pharos
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> > > >>> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Content translation with Yandex is also a problem in Bengali
> > Wikipedia.
> > >  Some users have grown a tendency to create machine translated
> > >  meaningless
> > >  articles with this extension to increase edit count and article
> > count.
> > > 
> > > >>> This
> > > >>>
> > >  has increased the workloads of admins to find and delete those
> > > articles.
> > > 
> > >  Yandex is not ready for many languages and it is better to shut
> it.
> > We
> > >  don't need it in Bengali.
> > > 
> > >  Regards
> > >  On May 3, 2017 12:17 AM, "John Erling Blad" 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > >  Actually this _is_ about turning ContentTranslation off, that is
> > what
> > > > several users in the community want. They block people using the
> > > >
> > >  extension
> > > 
> > > > and delete the translated articles. Use of ContentTranslation has
> > > >
> > >  become
> > > >>>
> > >  a
> > > 
> > > >   rather contentious case.
> > > >
> > > > Yandex as a general translation engine to be able to read some
> > alien
> > > > language is quite good, but as an engine to produce written text
> it
> > > is
> > > >
> > >  not
> > > 
> > > > very good at all. In fact it often creates quite horrible
> > Norwegian,
> > > >
> > >  even
> > > >>>
> > >  for closely related languages. One quite common problem is
> > reordering
> > > >
> > >  of
> > > >>>
> > >  words into meaningless constructs, an other problem is reordering
> > > >
> > >  lexical
> > > >>>
> > >  gender in weird ways. The English preposition "a" is often
> > translated
> > > >
> > >  as
> > > >>>
> > >  "en" in a propositional phrase, and then the gender is added to
> the
> > > > following phrase. That gives a translation of  "Oppland is a
> county
> > > >
> > >  in…"
> > > >>>
> > >    into something like "Oppland er en fylket i…" This should

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikitribune!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Jimmy,

Thank you for your mail to this list; I saw the announcement earlier this
day and read the Wikitribune.com website, watched the video, and also read
a newspaper article. Honestly, I am still not quite sure whether I
understood fully what Wikitribune is supposed to be. :-)

- What is the exact purpose of the site? To produce something, or to judge
something? What is the product? Wikitribune pages with a specific kind of
information or knowledge? A label to be put on news sites?
- "Anyone can flag or fix an article and submit it for review." - Who is
going to start a segment or item on the Wikitribune site? Are people
allowed to create several items about the same issue?
- How to resolve conflicts or differences in opinion? Will there be a
statute or rule codex people can stick to? Will there be specific people in
authority about a segment or the whole site? Will people vote?
- "Supporting Wikitribune means ensuring that that [sic!] journalists only
write articles based on facts that they can verify" - how will Wikitribune
ensure that, force journalists to do that? Will Wikitribune provide a kind
of certificate for news sites?

Kind regards,
Ziko








2017-04-25 23:59 GMT+02:00 Jimmy Wales :

>
> Today I announced a new initiative, outside of my Wikimedia activities,
> to combat fake news. It is important to me that I share directly with
> all of you information about this new initiative early on.
>
> The new project  will use a wiki-style setup and experiment with
> bringing together professional journalists and community contributors to
> produce fact-checked, global news stories.  At launch, we'll be using a
> hacked version of wordpress and we'll be evaluating whether that's the
> right tool moving forward.  Wordpress has a lot to
> commend it (free software, mature platform, used by lots of newsrooms,
> active developer ecosystem) but also has some philosophy that's quite
> "top down" in a way.
> (Not many people would think in a wiki way when setting up a newsroom!)
>
> This new initiative, Wikitribune, will be a learning experience - my
> vision is one that I've had a hard time explaining... except to
> Wikimedians who tend to immediately
> get it.
>
> While I am launching this project independent from Wikipedia and the
> Wikimedia Foundation, it is my plan that this new project will work
> alongside Wikimedia in the free knowledge movement. For example, I hope
> that the numerous Wikinews/Wikinoticias/Wikinotizie/etc. communities can
> collaborate with the  Wikitribune community in way that allows both to
> learn and benefit from each other. Additionally, Wikitribune will
> utilize the same Creative Commons license (CC-BY) as other free content
> projects in
> the news space - so they can take the stories written by our
> professional journalists and communities and make use of them.
>
> You can find out more information about Wikitribune at:
> https://www.wikitribune.com
>
> Thank you for your time and I'm happy to answer questions!  (But I'm
> quite swamped with everything at the moment so please forgive me if I
> answer in bursts!)
>
> --Jimbo
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Quality assurance of articles

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello John,

Article quality is an interesting subject. I guess that it depends
extremely on what is the scientific discipline you come from, and what
questions you want to be answered. A linguist will have a very different
approach than a computer scientist, for example. If you ask me, only a
human being can judge an article if it comes to content quality and textual
quality, by the way. Maybe you want to elaborate on what are your questions?

Kind regards
Ziko





2017-04-16 9:44 GMT+02:00 Gerard Meijssen :

> Hoi,
> How can you check for consistency when you are not able to appreciate if
> certain facts (like date of death) exist and are the same? What can you say
> about sources when some Wikipedias insist on sources in their own language
> and sources in other languages you cannot read? How do you check for
> consistency when we have over 280 Wikipedias with possible content?
>
> Do know that only Wikidata approaches a state where it knows about all our
> projects and we have not, to the best of my knowledge, assessed what the
> quality of Wikidata is on interwiki links.. Case in point, I fixed an error
> today about a person that was said to be dead because a Commons category
> was not correctly linked.
>
> When you study the consistency of English Wikipedia only, you only add to
> the current bias in research.
>
> When you want to know about the half life of an error, you can find in the
> history when for instance a date was mentioned for a first time and find
> the same date in another language. This is not trivial as the format of a
> language is diverse think Thai for instance.
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> On 16 April 2017 at 02:08, John Erling Blad  wrote:
>
> > This is more about checking consistency between projects. It is
> > interesting, but not quite what I was asking about. It is very
> interesting
> > if it would be possible to say something about half-life of an error. I'm
> > pretty sure this follows number of page views if ordinary logged-in
> editing
> > is removed.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gerard Meijssen <
> > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > Would checking if a date of death exists in articles be of interest to
> > you.
> > > The idea is that Wikidata knows about dates of death and for "living
> > > people" the fact of a death should be the same in all projects. When
> the
> > > date of death is missing, there is either an issue at Wikidata (not the
> > > same precision is one) or at a project.
> > >
> > > When a difference is found, the idea is that it is each projects
> > > responsibility to do what is needed. No further automation.
> > > Thanks,
> > >GerardM
> > >
> > > On 15 April 2017 at 23:50, John Erling Blad  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Are anyone doing any work on automated quality assurance of articles?
> > Not
> > > > the ORES-stuff, that is about creating hints from measured features.
> > I'm
> > > > thinking about verifying existence and completeness of citations, and
> > > > structure of logical arguments.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > > ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] [PRESS RELEASE] Wikimedia Foundation receives $500, 000 from the Craig Newmark Foundation and craigslist Charitable Fund to support a healthy and inclusive

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

First, I am of course very happy about the attention and support from Mr.
Newmark.

But I am wondering about the special focus to "tools"; harassment is a
problem on the social level, not the technical one. Also, after all those
years in which we talk about harassment, I find it difficult to trust our
Wikimedia institutions to come with an effective approach...

Kind regards





2017-01-27 3:47 GMT+01:00 Todd Allen :

> These are all very nice sentiments. But they're phrased in very vague ways.
>
> Is there anywhere we can see the actual concrete plan for the use of these
> funds?
>
> Todd
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 7:30 PM, Samantha Lien 
> wrote:
>
> > This press release is also available online here:
> >  https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Press_releases/
> > Wikimedia_Foundation_receives_$500,000_from_the_Craig_
> > Newmark_Foundation_and_craigslist_Charitable_Fund_to_
> > support_a_healthy_and_inclusive_Wikimedia_community
> >  Wikimedia_Foundation_receives_$500,000_from_the_Craig_
> Newmark_Foundation_and_craigslist_Charitable_Fund_to_
> support_a_healthy_and_inclusive_Wikimedia_community>
> >
> > And as a blog post on the Wikimedia blog here:
> >
> > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/01/26/community-health-initiative-grant/
> >
> >
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation receives $500,000 from the Craig Newmark Foundation
> > and craigslist Charitable Fund to support a healthy and inclusive
> Wikimedia
> > community
> >
> > Grant supports development of more advanced tools for volunteers and
> staff
> > to reduce harassing behavior on Wikipedia and block harassers from the
> site
> >
> > SAN FRANCISCO — January 26, 2017 — Today, the Wikimedia Foundation
> > announced the launch of a community health initiative to address
> harassment
> > and toxic behavior on Wikipedia, with initial funding of US$500,000 from
> > the Craig Newmark Foundation and craigslist Charitable Fund. The two seed
> > grants, each US$250,000, will support the development of tools for
> > volunteer editors and staff to reduce harassment on Wikipedia and block
> > harassers.
> >
> > Approximately 40% of internet users
> > , and as many
> > as 70% of younger users have personally experienced harassment online,
> with
> > regional studies showing rates as high as 76%
> >  releases/2016/symantec_0309_01>
> > for young women. While harassment differs across the internet, on
> Wikipedia
> > and other Wikimedia projects, harassment has been shown to reduce
> > participation on the sites. More than 50%
> >  Harassment_Survey_2015_-_Results_Report.pdf>
> > of people who reported experiencing harassment also reported decreasing
> > their participation in the Wikimedia community.
> >
> > Volunteer editors on Wikipedia are often the first line of response for
> > finding and addressing harassment on Wikipedia. "Trolling
> > ," "doxxing
> > ," and other menacing behaviors
> are
> > burdens to Wikipedia's contributors, impeding their ability to do the
> > writing and editing that makes Wikipedia so comprehensive and useful.
> This
> > program seeks to respond to requests from editors over the years for
> better
> > tools and support for responding to harassment and toxic behavior.
> >
> > “To ensure Wikipedia’s vitality, people of good will need to work
> together
> > to prevent trolling, harassment and cyber-bullying from interfering with
> > the common good,” said Craig Newmark, founder of craigslist. “To that
> end,
> > I'm supporting the work of the Wikimedia Foundation towards the
> prevention
> > of harassment.”
> >
> > The initiative is part of a commitment to community health at the
> > Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia
> > and the other Wikimedia projects, in collaboration with the global
> > community of volunteer editors. In 2015, the Foundation published its
> first
> > Harassment Survey
> >  about
> > the nature of the issue in order to identify key areas of concern. In
> > November 2016, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees issued a
> > statement of support
> >  Board_noticeboard/November_2016_-_Statement_on_Healthy_Community_Culture,_
> Inclusivity,_and_Safe_Spaces>
> > calling for a more “proactive” approach to addressing harassment as a
> > barrier to healthy, inclusive communities on Wikipedia.
> >
> > "If we want everyone to share in the sum of all knowledge, we need to
> make
> > sure everyone feels welcome,” said Katherine Maher, Executive Director of
> > the Wikimedia Foundation. “This grant supports a healthy culture for the
> > volunteer editors of Wikipe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Statement by Wikimedia Board on Healthy Community Culture, Inclusivity, and Safe Spaces

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Christophe,

Thank you for forwarding the resolution.

"the Wikimedia Foundation should be proactively engaged in eliminating
harassment"

What is the WMF actually going to do?

Kind regards
Ziko



2016-12-08 21:26 GMT+01:00 Sydney Poore :

> Thank you Christophe and the rest of the Wikimedia Foundation trustees
> for dedicating time and thought to this important topic.
>
> I'm optimistic that if we collaborate together as a community we can
> make a difference in the level of harassment on Wikimedia projects and
> maybe even other parts of the internet.
>
> Sydney
> Sydney Poore
> User:FloNight
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Christophe Henner 
> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > As many of you know, over the past couple of years the Wikimedia
> Foundation
> > has taken a focused look at community health—particularly in regards to
> > harassment. The Foundation's Board has been monitoring and discussing
> this
> > issue over the past year with great interest. We have prepared a
> statement
> > offering our thoughts on this topic, and providing a clear mandate for
> the
> > Foundation’s leadership to fully engage on this issue.
> >
> > Our statement is below and has been posted on Meta-Wiki, where it is set
> up
> > for translation:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_
> Board_noticeboard/November_2016_-_Statement_on_Healthy_Community_Culture,_
> Inclusivity,_and_Safe_Spaces
> >
> > Since the Foundation was established, we have been invested in building a
> > positive community culture. As part of these efforts, we have monitored
> the
> > projects for instances of harassment, escalating our capacity to respond
> in
> > recent years. Thanks to the work of the Foundation's Support and Safety
> > Team, we now have data in the form of the 2015 Harassment Survey[1] about
> > the nature of the issue. This has enabled us to identify key areas of
> > concern, and step up our response appropriately. This research shows that
> > harassment has a negative impact on participation in our projects. This
> has
> > implications for our ability to collect, share, and disseminate free
> > knowledge in support of the Wikimedia vision. Our statement speaks to the
> > Board's duty to help the Foundation fulfill its mission.
> >
> > The Board is committed to making our communities safer and will not
> accept
> > harassment and toxic behavior on Wikimedia projects. We believe this
> matter
> > deserves the Foundation's attention and resources, and have confirmed
> this
> > responsibility at our latest Board meeting on November 13th. The
> questions
> > that lay before us all now are how to best address this threat, rather
> than
> > if we should attempt to do so.
> >
> > The Board especially appreciates and applauds the work being done to
> > address this important issue by many community leaders across the
> movement
> > and teams within the Foundation. We look forward to seeing this
> cooperative
> > work not only continue, but expand. Finally, we encourage everyone who is
> > interested in helping the Foundation address this threat to our vision
> and
> > mission to engage in the upcoming discussions around this issue.
> >
> > On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees,
> >
> > Christophe Henner, Board Chair
> >
> > María Sefidari, Board Vice Chair
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Harassment_survey_2015
> >
> >
> > Statement by the Wikimedia Board on Healthy Community Culture,
> Inclusivity,
> > and Safe Spaces
> >
> >
> > At our Board meeting on November 13, and in Board meetings in September
> and
> > June, we spent considerable time discussing the issues of harassment and
> > hostility on the internet generally, and more specifically on the
> Wikimedia
> > projects.
> >
> > This is an important issue. Approximately 40% of internet users, and 70%
> of
> > women internet users, have personally experienced harassment.[1] Of
> people
> > who have reported experiencing harassment on Wikimedia projects, more
> than
> > 50% reported decreasing their participation in our community.[2] Based on
> > this and other research, we conclude that harassment and toxic behavior
> on
> > the Wikimedia projects negatively impacts the ability of the Wikimedia
> > projects to collect, share, and disseminate free knowledge. This behavior
> > is contrary to our vision and mission.
> >
> > Our communities deserve safe spaces in which they can contribute
> > productively and debate constructively. It is our belief that the
> Wikimedia
> > Foundation should be proactively engaged in eliminating harassment,
> > promoting inclusivity, ensuring a healthier culture of discourse, and
> > improving the safety of Wikimedia spaces. We request management to
> dedicate
> > appropriate resources to this end.
> >
> > We urge every member of the Wikimedia communities to collaborate in a way
> > that models the Wikimedia values of openness and diversity, step forward
> to
> > do their part

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming Research Showcase, November 16, 2016

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,
The topic sounds great. I'm afraid I can't watch it live, as I have other
duties in the evening.
Kind regards
Ziko

2016-11-09 23:29 GMT+01:00 Leila Zia :

> [Apologies for cross-posting]
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Almost a year ago, we [1] embarked on a research project to understand who
> Wikipedia readers are. More specifically, we set a goal for finding a
> taxonomy of Wikipedia readers. In the upcoming Research Showcase, I will
> present the findings of this research.
>
> *Logistics*​
> The Research Showcase will be live-streamed on Wednesday, November 16, 2016
> at 11:35 (PST) 19:35 (UTC).
>
> YouTube stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O24F1xkbNwI
>
> As usual, you can join the conversation on IRC freedone at
> #wikimedia-research. And, you can watch our past research showcases at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research/Showcase.
>
> *Title*
> Why We Read Wikipedia
>
> *Abstract*
> Every day, millions of readers come to Wikipedia to satisfy a broad range
> of information needs, however, little is known about what these needs are.
> In this presentation, I share the result of a research that sets to help us
> understand Wikipedia readers better. Based on an initial user study on
> English, Persian, and Spanish Wikipedia, we build a taxonomy of Wikipedia
> use-cases along several dimensions, capturing users’ motivations to visit
> Wikipedia, the depth of knowledge they are seeking, and their knowledge of
> the topic of interest prior to visiting Wikipedia. Then, we quantify the
> prevalence of these use-cases via a large-scale user survey conducted on
> English Wikipedia. Our analyses highlight the variety of factors driving
> users to Wikipedia, such as current events, media coverage of a topic,
> personal curiosity, work or school assignments, or boredom. Finally, we
> match survey responses to the respondents’ digital traces in Wikipedia’s
> server logs, enabling the discovery of behavioral patterns associated with
> specific use-cases. Our findings advance our understanding of reader
> motivations and behavior on Wikipedia and have potential implications for
> developers aiming to improve Wikipedia’s user experience, editors striving
> to cater to (a subset of) their readers’ needs, third-party services (such
> as search engines) providing access to Wikipedia content, and researchers
> aiming to build tools such as article recommendation engines.
>
>
> *How to prepare? What to expect?*
> If you decide to attend, here are a few things I would like to ask you to
> keep in mind, especially if this will be your first time to one of our
> research showcases:
>
> * Like many other research projects in fields that are not heavily
> explored, the findings of this research will create more questions than
> they answer. I encourage you to keep these questions in mind throughout the
> presentation and discussion: "What can we do with this finding? What other
> questions can we ask? What other ideas can we try?"
>
> * Be open to ask these questions to yourself, especially if you are a
> Wikipedia editor, even before coming to the showcase: "Why do I edit
> Wikipedia? Who am I writing the content for, if anyone? Will I change the
> way I write content if I know more about who reads it (to encourage or
> discourage certain types of reading or readers)? What needs an encyclopedia
> should serve? What is Wikipedia: A place one can quickly find the answer to
> his/her questions, or a place that one can go to when he/she wants to spend
> a quiet time reading and learning, or a place for both and even more? etc."
>
> * And, see if you would be interested to see the result of this study in
> your language. What will be presented is based on research on English,
> Persian, and Spanish Wikipedia (the data from the latter two projects have
> been used only for one part of the research). We are interested in running
> the study on at least 2-3 more languages to understand the robustness of
> some of the results across different languages, and to also help
> communities with having access to the results for their specific language
> project.
>
> ​Looking forward to seeing you there, and if you can't make it, please feel
> free to watch the video later and get in touch with us with
> questions/comments. :)
>
> Best,
> Leila
> --
> Leila Zia
> Senior Research Scientist
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> ​[1] WMF Research and researchers from three academic institutions: EPFL,
> GESIS, and Stanford University, in collaboration with WMF Reading.
> ​
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Changes to current chapter and thematic organisation criteria

[Ziko van Dijk]

Dear all,

Allow me, from my personal experiences, to bring into conscience what it
means to "be" or to represent a Wikimedia affiliate, whether it is a
chapter, a thematic organization or a WM user group.

It is a great honour to be active in a Wikimedia affiliate.

Affiliates, a chapter for example, are trusted with the use of important
trademarks and logos. For many people who are unfamiliar with the movement,
a chapter is the first contact point with everything regarding "Wikipedia".
Government and other institutions cooperate with chapters. The people
responsible in a chapter have to decide on budgets and reglements and many
other things, with effect to people inside and outside the chapter.

But what if a chapter fails?

Think of a museum that wants to cooperate with "Wikipedia" in a specific
language, and approaches the chapter related. If the chapter fails to
reply, if the museum never gets an answer of any kind even after several
attempts via different communication channels - that is a catastrophe for
the reputation of the chapter, but also for the Wikipedia language version
in question.

Or think of a volunteer who wants to organize something on an international
scale, and invites other chapters (and affiliates) to join. What if her
inclusionist approach is rewarded with deafening silence because chapter
representants are inactive but too proud to admit that?

I am a member of WMNL and WMDE. But even if I were not, these organizations
and the WMF represent me and my work on Wikipedia to the outside world. I
want them to be accountable to minimum standards - I think that I deserve
that as a Wikipedia volunteer. And I want to travel to other countries and
meet museum people and hear from them: "Wikimedia? Yes, we work together
with a Wikimedia user group here, those folks do great a great job."

It cannot be surprising that I was very happy to read Carlos' mail. I'm not
sure whether we are quite there yet, and one issue remains how to
effectively support affiliates even more, and how to provide appropriate
resources. But - whether such investions make sense depends also from the
affiliate.

Kind regards
Ziko




Am Donnerstag, 25. August 2016 schrieb Delphine Ménard :

> On 24 August 2016 at 22:50, Michael Peel  > wrote:
> >
>
> > This process seems to be very harsh as written. For example, it says:
> > "an organization’s recognition may be terminated immediately
> according to the group's agreement (without Board review or appeal)"
> > There's no mention of any sort of ombudsperson, or appeal process in
> this document. Presumably this is delegated to the individual group
> agreements, but it would be good to see that explicitly mentioned in this
> process document. There are other examples elsewhere in the process that I
> won't go into here. But I think this process needs rewriting to make it
> fairer to all parties.
> >
>
> I don't think it's harsh. Experience proves that "trying to get in
> touch" and "trying to put together a plan" is a very lengthy process,
> and takes months, if not years. In short, every attempt I have seen at
> actually making sure a chapter / group was really inexistent before
> entering the last phase of derecognition has been more than thorough
> (from many emails to activating personal contacts to everything you
> can think of to get in touch with people). You do have to draw the
> line somewhere though, and at some point get "harsh" and have hard
> deadlines. An appeal process would mean having someone at the other
> end of the line. More often than not, this is not the case. I think
> it's important that we know to "terminate", because dormant entities
> often prevent new people from rekindling motivation and starting anew.
>
> Best,
>
> Delphine
>
> --
> @notafish
>
> NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get
> lost.
> Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive -
> http://blog.notanendive.org
> Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] First French WikiConvention

[Ziko van Dijk]

Cher amis,

I feel very lucky that I have the occasion to take part into something new
in our movement. It has been some time that French speaking Wikipmedians
are planning this. As a foreign observer I am looking forward to learn a
lot of thing for our convention in the Netherlands, in November.

See you tomorrow at Halle Pajol!

Kind regards
Ziko



Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016 schrieb Andy Cruz y Corro :

> Yay for inter-regional conferences! I wish you nothing but success!
>
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Kevin Payravi  >
> wrote:
>
> > This is awesome to hear, Pierre. Best of luck to the event!
> >
> > Kevin
> > SuperHamster on en.wiki
> > Sent via mobile
> >
> > On Aug 17, 2016 11:11 AM, "Pierre-Yves Beaudouin" <
> > pierre.beaudo...@wikimedia.fr > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > We are proud to announce that the first ever French-speaking Wikimedia
> > > projects editors gathering will take place on August 19-20-21 in Paris,
> > > France. Supported by WikiFranca and organized locally by Wikimedia
> > France,
> > > it's a "dream come true" as the first idea of this event goes back to
> > 2012.
> > >
> > > The 1st Francophone WikiConvention will take place in an eco-friendly
> > > rehabilitated place called the Halle Pajol in the 18th arrondissement
> of
> > > Paris.
> > > Nearly 140 participants from 15 countries will be present. More than 40
> > > proposals were made by the participants to create the program of this
> 2,5
> > > day convention: gender-inclusive language on Wikipedia, paid
> > contributions,
> > > enriching articles about francophone Paralympic athletes, accessibility
> > and
> > > contribution in Africa ... A variety of themes that reflect the issues
> of
> > > the francophone part of the Wikimedia movement.
> > >
> > > This event was made possible by the support of the International
> > > Organization of the Francophonie, the General Delegation for the French
> > > language and the languages ​​of France, L'Oréal Foundation for Women in
> > > Science, Google France and of course the support of Wikimedia Wikimedia
> > > France and Wikimedia Switzerland, as well as the Wikimedia Foundation.
> > The
> > > event is coordinated by WikiFranca, the organization of chapters,
> > > francophone user groups and contributors of the Wikimedia movement.
> > >
> > > It is meant to be then organized annually, if it proves to be
> successful
> > !
> > > Thank you to all Wikimedians who supported this event. And now, let's
> do
> > it
> > > !
> > >
> > >
> > > Pyb
> > > ___
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>
>
>
> --
> "Imagina un mundo en donde cada persona del planeta pueda tener acceso
> libre a la suma total de todo el conocimiento humano. Eso es lo que estamos
> haciendo."—Jimmy Wales .
>
> Socio de Wikimedia México
> .
>
>
>
> [image: Andrés C y C on about.me]
>
> Andrés Cruz y Corro
> about.me/andycyca
>   
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Our Visiting Wikimedian initiative #wmcon

[Ziko van Dijk]

Thanks for the mail, Nicole, and Teele for the post. Two points:

a) It is great to see this kind of chapter interchanges, and I hope to
see more of it. It would be great if more chapters can offer such
opportunities.

b) It is great to see how a generation of young people grows in/into
the Wikimedia movement, who do internships, write their BA thesis on a
Wikimedia topic or travel to conventions. When I started with
Wikipedia, I was already 30, way over the age of secondary
socialisation.

Kind regards
Ziko








2016-07-29 12:30 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :
> Hi all,
>
> Following up on our Wikimedia Conference report 2016[1], we have now
> published more information about our “Visiting Wikimedian” initiative
> that we kicked-off with Teele Vaalma from Wikimedia Eesti this year.
> This initiative aims to transfer practical knowledge from the German
> chapter to other Wikimedia movement affiliates and provides us with an
> outside view.
>
> Teele wrote a blog post on the movement blog, describing her time in
> Berlin and her work to support us in organising the conference. It’s
> really worth a read, as she provides insights into cross chapter
> exchange and knowledge transfer.[2]
>
> We have also set up a page (on Meta!) that describes the pilot that we
> started this year. We would like to continue this for the Wikimedia
> Conference 2017 and now start looking for the next Visiting
> Wikimedian.[3] We are especially looking for a person who can apply
> the knowledge to an upcoming event, for example if the affiliate is
> hosting a regional or international conference. If you are interested
> in becoming a Visiting Wikimedian, please reach out to me directly
> until mid September.
>
> A special thanks goes out to Wikimedia Eesti for being so supportive
> of the idea and to Teele for doing such an awesome job!
>
> Cheers,
> Nicole
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2016/Report
> [2] 
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2016/07/28/digest-estonia-germany-wikimedia-conference/
> [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visiting_Wikimedian
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Referentin Internationale Beziehungen
> Adviser to the ED, International Relations
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. +49 30 21915826-0
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig
> anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin,
> Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Farsi Wikipedia

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Congratulations to the mile stone.

I do allow myself to ask how the 500.000 have been achieved. When I
click on Random Article, I get a certain percentage of articles of
this kind:
https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AF%D9%87%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%A7%D9%86_%D9%85%DB%8C%D8%B3%D9%88

Kind regards
Ziko




2016-07-27 20:27 GMT+02:00 Ivan Martínez :
> Congratulations!
>
> 2016-07-27 13:15 GMT-05:00 Kevin Payravi :
>
>> Awesome to hear, Mardentanha! Congratulations to you and the rest of the
>> Farsi Wikipedia editors.
>>
>> Kevin Payravi
>> W: www.kevinpayravi.com
>> E: kevinpayr...@gmail.com
>> P: (330) 554 - 3397
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 2:13 PM, Asaf Bartov 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Fantastic news!  Congratulations to all Farsi contributors! \o/
>> >
>> >A.
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Mardetanha 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I would to let everyone know, after 13 years and millions of edits,
>> > Finally
>> > > Farsi Wikipedia has reached 500,000 article. This is a very historic
>> > moment
>> > > for all us in Farsi Wikipedia.
>> > >
>> > > Mardetanha
>> > > ___
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Asaf Bartov
>> > Wikimedia Foundation 
>> >
>> > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
>> > sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>> > https://donate.wikimedia.org
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>
>
>
> --
> *Iván Martínez*
>
> *Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid *
>
> // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener una
> moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado.
> // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] With my thanks to everyone ...

[Ziko van Dijk]

It was always great to talk to you, Geofff, I wish you all the best
and hope that from time to time the Wikimedia movement still will
enjoy your advice.
Ziko

2016-07-14 13:01 GMT+02:00 Michael Jahn :
> Working with you has been a brief but nonetheless great pleasure, Geoff!
> Wishing you all the best for this exciting change!
> Michael
>
> --
>
> Michael Jahn
> Leiter Kommunikation & Partnerschaften
> Head of Communications & Partnerships
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 260
>
> http://wikimedia.de 
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch freien Zugang zu der
> Gesamtheit des Wissens der Menschheit hat. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
>
>
>
> 2016-07-13 23:25 GMT+02:00 Geoff Brigham :
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Over the past five years, I’ve been honored to serve as the General Counsel
>> and Secretary of the Wikimedia Foundation. This job has been amazing, and
>> I’m grateful to everyone who has made it so rewarding. It's now time for my
>> next step, so, in the coming days, I will be leaving the Foundation to
>> pursue a new career opportunity.
>>
>> I depart with such love for the mission, the Foundation, the Wikimedia
>> communities, and my colleagues at work. I thank my past and present bosses
>> as well as the Board for their support and guidance. I stand in awe of the
>> volunteer writers, editors, and photographers who contribute every day to
>> the Wikimedia projects. And I will hold special to my heart my past and
>> current teams, including legal and community advocacy. :) You have taught,
>> given, and enriched me so much.
>>
>> After my departure, Michelle Paulson will serve as interim head of Legal,
>> and, subject to Board approval, Stephen LaPorte will serve as interim
>> Secretary to the Board. I can happily report that they have the experience
>> and expertise to ensure a smooth and professional transition.
>>
>> The future of the Foundation under Katherine's leadership is exciting.
>> Having had the pleasure of working for her, I know Katherine will take the
>> Foundation to its next level in promoting and defending the outstanding
>> mission and values of the Wikimedia movement. Although I'm delighted about
>> my next opportunity, I will miss this new chapter in the Foundation's
>> story.
>>
>> My last day at the Foundation will be July 18th. After that, I will take a
>> month off to recharge my batteries, and then I start my new gig at YouTube
>> in the Bay Area. There, I will serve as Director of YouTube Trust & Safety,
>> managing global teams for policy, legal, and anti-abuse operations. As with
>> Wikimedia, I look forward to learning from those teams and tackling
>> together a new set of exciting, novel challenges.
>>
>> For those who want to stay in touch, please do! My personal email is:
>> geoffrey.r.brig...@gmail.com.
>>
>> With respect, admiration, and gratitude,
>>
>> Geoff
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