Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Jane Darnell]

I was just looking at the vital signs graph for Dutch and noticed that
mobile page views has overtaken desktop pageviews on weekends, which is
pretty cool. Maybe there could be a Wikigame that you could tune per
language that connects items to articles? This wouldn't help with
Wikipedians who refuse to look at Wikidata, but it may help with the
overall reduction of double items. Just yesterday I found an item for a
disambigution page for "Saftleven" in Italian Wikipedia without any
statements at all and merged it to a pre-existing item for a "Saftleven"
disambiguation page for two other language wikipedias that did have some
statements. I think especially these sorts of items can be problematic, as
the label which should link them up is not visible to the Wikipedian
working in their own language wiki.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:31 AM, Romaine Wiki 
wrote:

> Yes, exactly. :-)
>
> 2015-10-29 23:22 GMT+01:00 Magnus Manske :
>
> > I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
> >
> > "Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect
> it
> > to those!
> > Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other
> > language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
> >
> > For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is
> > added value to their own work; language links are an important part of
> > this.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Risker,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker  wrote:
> > >
> > > > We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> > > > project when they create content on the project of their choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the
> > editor
> > > the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means
> > uploading
> > > Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very
> > smooth,
> > > and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow
> > the
> > > flow.
> > >
> > > Leila
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant
> here.
> > > > > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories
> should
> > > be
> > > > > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only
> manual
> > > > > interwikis existed.
> > > > >
> > > > > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a
> > message
> > > > > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps
> > further
> > > > > settings are possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are
> > not
> > > > > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
> > > added
> > > > to
> > > > > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about
> 100
> > > new
> > > > > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one
> > wiki,
> > > > and
> > > > > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> > > > >
> > > > > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can
> edit"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> > > > really
> > > > > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to
> > > Commons
> > > > > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > > > > definitions
> > > > > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For
> that
> > > > > matter,
> > > > > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what
> they
> > > > review
> > > > > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes
> they
> > > add
> > > > to
> > > > > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
> > > people
> > > > > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that,
> > bluntly
> > > > put,
> > > > > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and
> add
> > > > junk
> > > > > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add
> referencing
> > > and
> > > > > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
> > > shouldn't
> > > > be
> > > > > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Risker/Anne
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki <
> romaine.w...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata
> > development: a
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Romaine Wiki]

Yes, exactly. :-)

2015-10-29 23:22 GMT+01:00 Magnus Manske :

> I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
>
> "Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect it
> to those!
> Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other
> language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
>
> For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is
> added value to their own work; language links are an important part of
> this.
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia  wrote:
>
> > Hi Risker,
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker  wrote:
> >
> > > We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> > > project when they create content on the project of their choice.
> >
> >
> > I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the
> editor
> > the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means
> uploading
> > Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very
> smooth,
> > and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow
> the
> > flow.
> >
> > Leila
> >
> >
> > > On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > > > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should
> > be
> > > > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > > > interwikis existed.
> > > >
> > > > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a
> message
> > > > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> > > >
> > > > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps
> further
> > > > settings are possible.
> > > >
> > > > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are
> not
> > > > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
> > added
> > > to
> > > > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100
> > new
> > > > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one
> wiki,
> > > and
> > > > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> > > >
> > > > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> > > really
> > > > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to
> > Commons
> > > > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > > > definitions
> > > > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people
> to
> > be
> > > > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > > > matter,
> > > > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> > > review
> > > > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they
> > add
> > > to
> > > > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
> > people
> > > > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > > > >
> > > > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that,
> bluntly
> > > put,
> > > > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> > > junk
> > > > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing
> > and
> > > > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
> > shouldn't
> > > be
> > > > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > > > >
> > > > > Risker/Anne
> > > > >
> > > > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata
> development: a
> > > > > better
> > > > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those
> are
> > > not
> > > > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> > > exists.
> > > > > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there
> is
> > > no
> > > > > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that
> > after
> > > > the
> > > > > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen,
> > etc)
> > > in
> > > > > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In
> the
> > > > first
> > > > > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
> > > better
> > > > if
> > > > > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can
> > stay
> > > in
> > > > > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > > > > properties
> > > > > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > > > > properties.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of
> Wikipedia
> > > and
> > >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Romaine Wiki]

Hi,

We have tried it, but didn't work as in a small community this isn't
doable.

Romaine

2015-10-29 21:59 GMT+01:00 WereSpielChequers :

> Hi Romaine,
>
> Having bots that list tasks that need  doing is a great way to get things
> done. But you need to think carefully who you target this work at. We do
> have bots that tell editors when they've linked an article to a
> disambiguation page, there is some logic in that as the person who added
> the information is more likely to understand it and know which other
> article it really should be added to. But for general gnomish work like
> categorisation adding wikilinks and now migrating to wikidata, better I
> suggest to create some category and try to recruit gnomes to do that work
> en masse. Someone who creates a few dozen articles might not fancy learning
> about wikidata, but a gnome who specialises in it might do many times that
> amount of migration.
>
> Remember the essence of crowd sourcing is to get lots of people to take on
> the parts of the task that they want to do.
>
> WSC
>
>
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:04:58 -0700
> > From: Raymond Leonard 
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> > Cc: Wikidata mailing list 
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development
> > Message-ID:
> >  > c3ywzeq-rnqek6i...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Often I see or make additions to articles & then see hidden categories
> like
> > Official Website not in Wikidata or Coordinates not in Wikidata, or the
> > Authority Control data is in Wikidata but it has an LCCN parameter added
> in
> > the template in Wikipedia. Are there any semi-automated tools that would
> > facilitate moving such data into Wikidata when we encounter these things?
> > How can we improve the workflow to aid the transfer of this data?
> >
> > Yours,
> > Peaceray
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > better
> > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > >
> > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
> the
> > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> first
> > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better
> if
> > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > >
> > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > properties
> > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > properties.
> > >
> > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
> > her
> > > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> > >
> > > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Romaine
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >
> >
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Gnangarra]

While I agree that there is a necessity to link pages through Wikidata I'm
with Risker such a message would itself become a barrier to the creation of
content, we have enough of those already.  We are forgetting that the
people doing the edits do so as volunteers not paid employees, they do so
for various intrinsic reasons the majority of our developments over time
have been eroding those intrinsic reasons with greater complexities, rigid
demands and wikilawyering of policies you cant force volunteers to do what
you want the way you want when you want because ultimately they wont do
anything and that is what we have been seeing over the last 5 years with
editor decline.

It would be better to see skilled Wikidata people out in the communities
training and talking personally to contributors building the skill sets but
if such activity isnt your cup of tea then no matter how heavy handed you
get its just not going to get done or people will just walk away form the
whole .


On 30 October 2015 at 06:22, Magnus Manske 
wrote:

> I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
>
> "Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect it
> to those!
> Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other
> language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
>
> For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is
> added value to their own work; language links are an important part of
> this.
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia  wrote:
>
> > Hi Risker,
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker  wrote:
> >
> > > We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> > > project when they create content on the project of their choice.
> >
> >
> > I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the
> editor
> > the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means
> uploading
> > Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very
> smooth,
> > and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow
> the
> > flow.
> >
> > Leila
> >
> >
> > > On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > > > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should
> > be
> > > > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > > > interwikis existed.
> > > >
> > > > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a
> message
> > > > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> > > >
> > > > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps
> further
> > > > settings are possible.
> > > >
> > > > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are
> not
> > > > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
> > added
> > > to
> > > > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100
> > new
> > > > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one
> wiki,
> > > and
> > > > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> > > >
> > > > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> > > really
> > > > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to
> > Commons
> > > > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > > > definitions
> > > > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people
> to
> > be
> > > > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > > > matter,
> > > > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> > > review
> > > > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they
> > add
> > > to
> > > > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
> > people
> > > > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > > > >
> > > > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that,
> bluntly
> > > put,
> > > > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> > > junk
> > > > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing
> > and
> > > > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
> > shouldn't
> > > be
> > > > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > > > >
> > > > > Risker/Anne
> > > > >
> > > > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata
> development: a
> > > > > better
> > > > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those
> are
> > > not
> > > > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Magnus Manske]

I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.

"Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect it
to those!
Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other
language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"

For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is
added value to their own work; language links are an important part of this.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia  wrote:

> Hi Risker,
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker  wrote:
>
> > We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> > project when they create content on the project of their choice.
>
>
> I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the editor
> the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means uploading
> Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very smooth,
> and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow the
> flow.
>
> Leila
>
>
> > On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki 
> wrote:
> >
> > > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should
> be
> > > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > > interwikis existed.
> > >
> > > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> > > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> > >
> > > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> > > settings are possible.
> > >
> > > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> > > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
> added
> > to
> > > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100
> new
> > > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
> > and
> > > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> > >
> > > Romaine
> > >
> > >
> > > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> > >
> > > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > > >
> > > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> > really
> > > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to
> Commons
> > > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > > definitions
> > > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to
> be
> > > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > > matter,
> > > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> > review
> > > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they
> add
> > to
> > > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
> people
> > > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > > >
> > > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
> > put,
> > > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> > junk
> > > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing
> and
> > > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
> shouldn't
> > be
> > > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > > >
> > > > Risker/Anne
> > > >
> > > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > > > better
> > > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > > >
> > > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
> > not
> > > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> > exists.
> > > > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
> > no
> > > > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that
> after
> > > the
> > > > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen,
> etc)
> > in
> > > > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> > > first
> > > > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
> > better
> > > if
> > > > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can
> stay
> > in
> > > > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > > > >
> > > > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > > > properties
> > > > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > > > properties.
> > > > >
> > > > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
> > and
> > > > her
> > > > > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> > > > >
> > > > > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > > > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > http

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Leila Zia]

Hi Risker,

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker  wrote:

> We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> project when they create content on the project of their choice.


I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the editor
the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means uploading
Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very smooth,
and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow the
flow.

Leila


> On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki  wrote:
>
> > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
> > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > interwikis existed.
> >
> > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> >
> > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> > settings are possible.
> >
> > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
> to
> > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
> > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
> and
> > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> >
> > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > >
> > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> really
> > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > definitions
> > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > matter,
> > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> review
> > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
> to
> > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > >
> > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
> put,
> > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> junk
> > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
> be
> > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > >
> > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > > better
> > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > >
> > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
> not
> > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> exists.
> > > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
> no
> > > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
> > the
> > > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
> in
> > > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> > first
> > > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
> better
> > if
> > > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
> in
> > > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > > >
> > > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > > properties
> > > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > > properties.
> > > >
> > > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
> and
> > > her
> > > > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> > > >
> > > > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > Romaine
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > <
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[WereSpielChequers]

Hi Romaine,

Having bots that list tasks that need  doing is a great way to get things
done. But you need to think carefully who you target this work at. We do
have bots that tell editors when they've linked an article to a
disambiguation page, there is some logic in that as the person who added
the information is more likely to understand it and know which other
article it really should be added to. But for general gnomish work like
categorisation adding wikilinks and now migrating to wikidata, better I
suggest to create some category and try to recruit gnomes to do that work
en masse. Someone who creates a few dozen articles might not fancy learning
about wikidata, but a gnome who specialises in it might do many times that
amount of migration.

Remember the essence of crowd sourcing is to get lots of people to take on
the parts of the task that they want to do.

WSC


> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 12:04:58 -0700
> From: Raymond Leonard 
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Cc: Wikidata mailing list 
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development
> Message-ID:
>  c3ywzeq-rnqek6i...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Often I see or make additions to articles & then see hidden categories like
> Official Website not in Wikidata or Coordinates not in Wikidata, or the
> Authority Control data is in Wikidata but it has an LCCN parameter added in
> the template in Wikipedia. Are there any semi-automated tools that would
> facilitate moving such data into Wikidata when we encounter these things?
> How can we improve the workflow to aid the transfer of this data?
>
> Yours,
> Peaceray
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Romaine Wiki 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> better
> > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> >
> > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the
> > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first
> > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if
> > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> >
> > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> properties
> > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> properties.
> >
> > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
> her
> > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> >
> > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Romaine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>
>
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
<mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Raymond Leonard]

I am going to suggest something, but I have no idea of the development that
it will take.

Currently Visual Editor has Template forms. If Template data that has been
inputted into a form can be directed to be stored automatically in Wikidata
instead of Wikipedia, & that data is then pulled back into the page, I
believe this would be transparent to the editor.

Yours,
Peaceray

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker  wrote:

> This is where I disagree with you, Romaine.  I do believe my examples are
> exactly right. We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> project when they create content on the project of their choice.  We have a
> hard enough time recruiting contributors to any of our projects now, and
> pressuring them to work on other projects at the same time is not the path
> to volunteer satisfaction.
>
> Consider that the hypothetical editor you mention, who writes five articles
> a day, may really not have any interest in adding to Wikidata, Wikisource,
> Wikiquote, etc.  Is there benefit in pressuring him to do so?  Or is it
> more likely that he'll stop contributing to the Wikidata backlog by not
> creating the articles in the first place?
>
> On many of the larger projects, and in fact on many of the smaller ones
> too, only registered, logged-in users can create articles. "Logged in" is
> not a reasonable filter.  A preference to receive a reminder that Wikidata
> is missing would work. But it should not automatically pop up whenever
> someone creates an article, which is just as likely to annoy editors.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki  wrote:
>
> > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
> > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > interwikis existed.
> >
> > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> >
> > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> > settings are possible.
> >
> > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
> to
> > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
> > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
> and
> > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> >
> > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > >
> > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> really
> > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > definitions
> > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > matter,
> > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> review
> > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
> to
> > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > >
> > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
> put,
> > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> junk
> > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
> be
> > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > >
> > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > > better
> > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > >
> > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
> not
> > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> exists.
> > > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
> no
> > > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
> > the
> > > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
> in
> > > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> > first
> > > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
> better
> > if
> > > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
> in
> > > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > > >
> > > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > > properties
> > > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > > properties.
> > > >
> > > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Romaine Wiki]

I am 100% sure that such feature is optional: users must have the option to
deactivate it. The feature will only work if it is an opt-out feature,
because if users are informed about adding to Wikidata, most of them do. It
are exactly those users who have not been informed which should get a
message.

Romaine

2015-10-29 21:19 GMT+01:00 Todd Allen :

> If you've had some users requesting such a feature, could it perhaps be
> added as an opt-in preference setting? I'd be very annoyed by such a
> feature if it couldn't be disabled, and many might just be confused by it.
> On Oct 29, 2015 2:08 PM, "Romaine Wiki"  wrote:
>
> > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
> > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > interwikis existed.
> >
> > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> >
> > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> > settings are possible.
> >
> > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
> to
> > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
> > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
> and
> > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> >
> > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > >
> > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> really
> > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > definitions
> > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > matter,
> > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> review
> > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
> to
> > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > >
> > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
> put,
> > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> junk
> > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
> be
> > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > >
> > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > > better
> > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > >
> > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
> not
> > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> exists.
> > > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
> no
> > > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
> > the
> > > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
> in
> > > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> > first
> > > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
> better
> > if
> > > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
> in
> > > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > > >
> > > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > > properties
> > > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > > properties.
> > > >
> > > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
> and
> > > her
> > > > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> > > >
> > > > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > Romaine
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > <
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Romaine Wiki]

If you want to add a new image to Wikipedia, this image has to be on
Commons (nl-wiki situation).
If interwikilinks should be seen in the sidebar, the article needs to be
added to Wikidata.
This are the two relevant examples, other mentioned examples are not
relevant as there is requirement in place.

I give many workshops in editing Wikipedia and I see there two main issues
why new editors are experiencing editing Wikipedia as difficult: 1. there
is no social environment, 2. the software is too complex to handle. One of
the things the community expect is that articles are added to Wikidata, and
still this isn't made easier for them.

The complaint is that the users do not get a automatic message that it
should be added, so they do not see a reason to add it themselves. Further
they miss an easy way workflow to do this, exactly what I propose here.

That the English Wikipedia has once decided to shut down article creation
by unregistered users, this is on many wikis not the case. The English
Wikipedia is not the norm that should be followed everywhere.

Romaine





2015-10-29 21:20 GMT+01:00 Risker :

> This is where I disagree with you, Romaine.  I do believe my examples are
> exactly right. We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
> project when they create content on the project of their choice.  We have a
> hard enough time recruiting contributors to any of our projects now, and
> pressuring them to work on other projects at the same time is not the path
> to volunteer satisfaction.
>
> Consider that the hypothetical editor you mention, who writes five articles
> a day, may really not have any interest in adding to Wikidata, Wikisource,
> Wikiquote, etc.  Is there benefit in pressuring him to do so?  Or is it
> more likely that he'll stop contributing to the Wikidata backlog by not
> creating the articles in the first place?
>
> On many of the larger projects, and in fact on many of the smaller ones
> too, only registered, logged-in users can create articles. "Logged in" is
> not a reasonable filter.  A preference to receive a reminder that Wikidata
> is missing would work. But it should not automatically pop up whenever
> someone creates an article, which is just as likely to annoy editors.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki  wrote:
>
> > That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> > On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
> > added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> > interwikis existed.
> >
> > And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> > after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
> >
> > Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> > settings are possible.
> >
> > At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> > added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
> to
> > Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
> > articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
> and
> > a huge workload to get them added properly.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> > 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
> >
> > > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> > >
> > > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
> really
> > > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> > > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> > definitions
> > > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> > > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> > matter,
> > > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
> review
> > > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
> to
> > > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> > > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> > >
> > > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
> put,
> > > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
> junk
> > > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> > > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
> be
> > > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> > >
> > > Risker/Anne
> > >
> > > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > > better
> > > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > > >
> > > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
> not
> > > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
> exists.
> > > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
> no
> > > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Risker]

This is where I disagree with you, Romaine.  I do believe my examples are
exactly right. We do not expect anyone to add information to any other
project when they create content on the project of their choice.  We have a
hard enough time recruiting contributors to any of our projects now, and
pressuring them to work on other projects at the same time is not the path
to volunteer satisfaction.

Consider that the hypothetical editor you mention, who writes five articles
a day, may really not have any interest in adding to Wikidata, Wikisource,
Wikiquote, etc.  Is there benefit in pressuring him to do so?  Or is it
more likely that he'll stop contributing to the Wikidata backlog by not
creating the articles in the first place?

On many of the larger projects, and in fact on many of the smaller ones
too, only registered, logged-in users can create articles. "Logged in" is
not a reasonable filter.  A preference to receive a reminder that Wikidata
is missing would work. But it should not automatically pop up whenever
someone creates an article, which is just as likely to annoy editors.

Risker/Anne

On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki  wrote:

> That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
> added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> interwikis existed.
>
> And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
>
> Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> settings are possible.
>
> At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added to
> Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
> articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki, and
> a huge workload to get them added properly.
>
> Romaine
>
>
> 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
>
> > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> >
> > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really
> > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> definitions
> > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> matter,
> > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review
> > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to
> > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> >
> > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put,
> > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk
> > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be
> > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > better
> > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > >
> > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
> the
> > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> first
> > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better
> if
> > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > >
> > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > properties
> > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > properties.
> > >
> > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
> > her
> > > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> > >
> > > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Romaine
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Todd Allen]

If you've had some users requesting such a feature, could it perhaps be
added as an opt-in preference setting? I'd be very annoyed by such a
feature if it couldn't be disabled, and many might just be confused by it.
On Oct 29, 2015 2:08 PM, "Romaine Wiki"  wrote:

> That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
> On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
> added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
> interwikis existed.
>
> And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
> after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
>
> Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
> settings are possible.
>
> At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
> added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added to
> Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
> articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki, and
> a huge workload to get them added properly.
>
> Romaine
>
>
> 2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :
>
> > Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
> >
> > This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really
> > feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> > when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include
> definitions
> > in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> > adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that
> matter,
> > we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review
> > on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to
> > Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> > would add "data" to Wikidata?
> >
> > I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put,
> > isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk
> > data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> > improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be
> > adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> >
> > On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> > better
> > > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> > >
> > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> > > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> > > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> > > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
> the
> > > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> > > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
> first
> > > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better
> if
> > > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> > > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> > >
> > > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> > properties
> > > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> > properties.
> > >
> > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
> > her
> > > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> > >
> > > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > Romaine
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Romaine Wiki]

That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here.
On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be
added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual
interwikis existed.

And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message
after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.

Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further
settings are possible.

At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not
added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new
articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki, and
a huge workload to get them added properly.

Romaine


2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker :

> Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
>
> This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really
> feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
> when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include definitions
> in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
> adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that matter,
> we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review
> on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to
> Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
> would add "data" to Wikidata?
>
> I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put,
> isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk
> data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
> improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be
> adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
> better
> > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
> >
> > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> > added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> > Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> > stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the
> > creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> > what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first
> > stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if
> > this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> > Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
> >
> > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
> properties
> > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
> properties.
> >
> > This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
> her
> > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
> >
> > For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Romaine
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/guidelineswikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
> >
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Risker]

Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?

This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really
feel comfortable with.  We don't expect people to add images to Commons
when they write an article.  We don't expect people to include definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word.  We don't expect people to be
adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote.  For that matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to
Wikiquote.  So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people
would add "data" to Wikidata?

I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk
data to Wikidata.  Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and
improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.

Risker/Anne

On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a better
> integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
>
> Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the
> creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first
> stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if
> this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
>
> A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties
> (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties.
>
> This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and her
> sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
>
> For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
>
> Thanks!
> Romaine
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> 
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Raymond Leonard]

Often I see or make additions to articles & then see hidden categories like
Official Website not in Wikidata or Coordinates not in Wikidata, or the
Authority Control data is in Wikidata but it has an LCCN parameter added in
the template in Wikipedia. Are there any semi-automated tools that would
facilitate moving such data into Wikidata when we encounter these things?
How can we improve the workflow to aid the transfer of this data?

Yours,
Peaceray


On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Romaine Wiki 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a better
> integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
>
> Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
> added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
> Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
> stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the
> creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
> what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first
> stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if
> this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
> Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
>
> A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties
> (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties.
>
> This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and her
> sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
>
> For this I created a Phabricator task at:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
>
> Thanks!
> Romaine
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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[Wikimedia-l] Next step in the development

[Romaine Wiki]

Hi all,

I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.

Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.

A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties.

This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.

For this I created a Phabricator task at:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070

Thanks!
Romaine
___
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