Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-24 Thread mathieu stumpf guntz
Saluton Samuel kaj ĉiuj, Le 23/11/2017 à 22:39, Samuel Klein a écrit : On Nov 23, 2017 2:55 PM, "Emeric Vallespi" wrote: the Wikimedia community protect itself and its members by harassing and defaming people who question Please don't turn it to a inaccurate "us

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Emeric VALLESPI
One must have the courage of one's words and assume them. There is a very simple way of knowing who is lying: can Sylvain publish the letter in question? I will be really interested to see when he was punished for "having a girlfriend". Furthermore, I can't agree more with Craig and as I said,

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Craig Franklin
Can I suggest to all parties that, as was the case last time this came up here, raking this conflict over the coals here on a mailing list where very few of us have direct knowledge of the situation, or the power to do anything about it in any case, is probably not helpful for anyone? I am

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Xavier Combelle
Emeric, When you say, that no sanction has filed his HR record, you are half or completely lying. The existence of a "rappel à l'ordre" (warning) is an argument which can support fire someone of the staff so it should be in a HR record. In the same way Sylvain never said he is writing his email

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Alphos OGame
Good evening Émeric, good evening all. Allow me to reply. Oh wait, that's right, I don't need you to allow the publication of emails on this mailing list - this sure comes as a change, and a welcome one too ! I won't be speaking of any member of the community, whether volunteer or employee, it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Gabriel Thullen
Dear Sylvain, Thank you for your message and thank you for showing us that our Wikimedia employees are white collar workers, and as such they also have the right to be part of an organized labor movement. For those who do not know me well, I am a board member of the Geneva public sector labor

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Samuel Klein
On Nov 23, 2017 2:55 PM, "Emeric Vallespi" wrote: the Wikimedia community protect itself and its members by harassing and defaming people who question I cannot imagine why anyone would attempt to defame you, when they cannot hope to surpass the eloquence and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-23 Thread Emeric Vallespi
Sylvain, I have to answer to your email where you’re especially lying. You say that you’re writing on behalf of a union section of the employees of Wikimedia France but I’m personally curious to know the weight of this union section. My question is actually: who else is represented by your

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-11-22 Thread Sylvain Boissel
Hi Katherine, 2017-10-19 23:19 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher : > [...] > > We are committed to working with the new Wikimédia France conseil > d’administration (governing board) to support the French community as they > work to address and resolve these and other outstanding

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Joseph Seddon
I must echo Lodewijk's words. Washing dirty linen in public is beneficial to no one and damages everyone involved including those making the accusations. There will be and are lessons to be learned but right now there is a huge chilling effect from the presence of lawyers on many sides and there

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Lodewijk
While this topic is painful and important, I don't have the feeling any progress is being made by continuing this tirade on this mailing list. I can see that hiring lawyers to investigate, will (at least in my culture) always have a whiff of subjectivity. Even though this seems (from what I

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Frans Grijzenhout
Hi Remi, You're mail is one big complaint, may I remind you to the last phrase of your Board Handbook? It states: Fortes capacité d’auto-évaluation ​ (​Strong self-assessment capability). Thank you, Frans *Frans Grijzenhout*, voorzitter / chair +31 6 5333 9499 -- *Vereniging Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Andreas Kolbe
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:21 AM, Emeric VALLESPI wrote: > Katherine, > > [...] > The lawyers you have appointed have been paid by the Foundation. They > *only* interviewed the defendant. Is this true? Because if what Emeric and Remi say is in fact true, it

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Rémi Mathis
Katherine, I told you a month ago "Maybe you should reply as a responsible human being and not as a trained crisis communication people". This is truer everyday. What did you write this email yesterday, and not one,two, three months ago? Because I left Wikimedia France, because a Fields

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Dan Rosenthal
I think the broader point being that for any legal or criminal complaints, the appropriate venue is the court system, not the Wikimedia-L mailing list. Dan Rosenthal On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:45 AM, James Salsman wrote: > > Legal threats are surely the universal language

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-20 Thread Gabriel Thullen
Thank you Katherine for your long and thoughtful message on this difficult subject. I feel that the Foundation took the necessary steps to ensure that all parties concerned were treated fairly. I also tend to trust the Foundation board when they say that there was "no merit to the charges". This

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-19 Thread Samuel Klein
On Oct 19, 2017 7:41 PM, "Richard Farmbrough" wrote: I think it very clear that these allegations were the last gasp of an ancient regime, Legal threats are surely the universal language of bad faith. And I have complete trust in Pierre-Selim and Caroline. Thanks

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-19 Thread Richard Farmbrough
I think it very clear that these allegations were the last gasp of an ancient regime, mired as it was in nepotism and other unsavoury practices. The criminal allegations can be left to the police. The description of the steps taken by the WMF in this case seems to be of a very sensible

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-19 Thread Emeric VALLESPI
Katherine, Your answer is particularly shocking. Which right has the Foundation to feel legitimate in order to describe the situation experienced by Nathalie Martin or by other people? Only a judge can. The movement organization does not take precedence over the laws of the countries. You rely

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-19 Thread Patricio Lorente
Thanks so much, Katherine, for this detailed report. I really appreciate this. Patricio El jue., 19 de oct. de 2017 a la(s) 18:20, Katherine Maher < kma...@wikimedia.org> escribió: > Everyone, > > The past six months have been a complex and

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-19 Thread Katherine Maher
Everyone, The past six months have been a complex and troubling time for our community in France. Let me be absolutely clear, with no confusion or ambiguity, that the Wikimedia Foundation condemns harassment. We take all harassment claims seriously, investigate them promptly, and take the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-13 Thread Caroline Becker
Hi Emeric, I am very pleased that you take mental health seriously. I remember, not so long ago, that your actions while you were in Wikimedia France had serious impact on the mental health of at least two of your members. In January, someone had a meltdown just in front of you. Could you remind

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-13 Thread Pierre-Selim
I don't trust any of the harassement accusations made by Nathalie, Emeric, Marie-Alice and Rémi. I know for sure that they use this kind of accusations very lightly. They used it on myself too. Marie-Alice wrote to me on July 5th, that my membership was refused due to my long standing

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-12 Thread
Taking María's statement on behalf of the WMF by itself, there are a couple of simple in-line questions about handling governance I would like to make, based on my experience with a number of governance issues both within and outside of Wikimedia related organizations. I'm sticking to this being

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-12 Thread Emeric Vallespi
Dear Maria, Dear all, The Wikimedia Foundation board of trustees, the executive and the legal management of the Wikimedia Foundation have been informed of Nathalie Martin's complaint against her former employer now member of your board, and then of the criminal complaint against this same

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-11 Thread Alessandro Marchetti
I worked in France some years ago, and I had the feeling that in my experience allegations of harassment were more common there than in other countries. At least in the tertiary sector. My idea is that instead of fixing the disfunctionalities of the working environment (which in France seemed

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-11 Thread John Erling Blad
For the moment I have virtually zero trust in all involved, including the wmf board. Reorganize and regain trust! John Erling Blad On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Natacha Rault wrote: > Hi Maria, thank you. > > Personnally, and as an engaged feminist in real life, I dont

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-11 Thread Natacha Rault
Hi Maria, thank you. Personnally, and as an engaged feminist in real life, I dont believe one word of these allegations. My support goes to Christophe, and like you wrote, these allegations I think are not backed up by evidence as far as I have been informed). Too many people within the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-11 Thread María Sefidari
Dear all, We would like to specifically address the allegations related to harassment in this thread’s original email. We take all allegations of harassment seriously. Earlier this year, the Board of Trustees was informed that allegations of harassment had been made against the Wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-07 Thread John Erling Blad
When I first saw the posts I thought it would probably be more opinions to them than the very clear blame-game that were going on. Having a partly anonymous community and a chapter that only represents some of the users are an invitation to fierce battles. Whatever going on at WMFR, I believe it

[Wikimedia-l] The other side of the crisis at WMFR

2017-10-07 Thread Marie-Alice Mathis
Hello all, I haven’t had a real opportunity to introduce myself: I am Marie-Alice Mathis, 32, a now ex-member of the Board of Wikimédia France. The transition with the newly elected members of the Board is now complete and I gladly step down to get away from the violence, exhaustion and