Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa. Gary Troutman has been GREAT. And
he's really done a lot of research into my industry. He's got me on some
very cool insurance programs. Good reasonable stuff.
His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -
From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE
From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:
Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain policies
even where risk of loss is relatively minor. E+O is an example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the bare
minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether the client
does $10,000 per year or $250,000.
Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties part to
try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 overall program.
This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else. You really do get what you pay for. These
policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a claim paid
would be the exception rather than the rule. Plus they are likely placed
with relatively [financially] weak carriers.
My value to your clients would be in the area of making their insurance
budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage with stronger
carriers. My guess is that clients that are generating revenue of
$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.
Paul
Original Message
Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
From: Dylan Oliver
I'm interested in group insurance. Been talking to United (through
wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what we've
been
offered:
$2,128 general liability property +
$700 umbrella +
$250 program administration charges +
$1,250 professional EO (optional) +
$250 EO administration charges (optional) +
$250 Healthy Safety Manual (maybe optional).
The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium of
$585.
And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a
quarter
of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?
Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
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http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and
maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get
some members services so people have a reason to join. With added
services comes members and money. With members and money comes pull
at the FCC level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule
the world. *Right Brain*
Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members.
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa. Gary Troutman has been
GREAT. And he's really done a lot of research into my industry. He's
got me on some very cool insurance programs. Good reasonable stuff.
His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE
From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:
Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain
policies even where risk of loss is relatively minor. E+O is an
example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the bare
minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether the
client does $10,000 per year or $250,000.
Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties
part to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000
overall program.
This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else. You really do get what you pay for.
These policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a
claim paid would be the exception rather than the rule. Plus they
are likely placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.
My value to your clients would be in the area of making their
insurance budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage
with stronger carriers. My guess is that clients that are generating
revenue of
$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.
Paul
Original Message
Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
From: Dylan Oliver
I'm interested in group insurance. Been talking to United (through
wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what
we've been
offered:
$2,128 general liability property +
$700 umbrella +
$250 program administration charges +
$1,250 professional EO (optional) +
$250 EO administration charges (optional) +
$250 Healthy Safety Manual (maybe optional).
The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium
of $585.
And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a
quarter
of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?
Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338
Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With members and money comes pull at the FCC level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. Regards, Peter 4isps.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
He's going to check on what kind of group programs then can come up with for
us.
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message -
From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and
maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some
members services so people have a reason to join. With added services
comes members and money. With members and money comes pull at the FCC
level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world.
*Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members.
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa. Gary Troutman has been GREAT.
And he's really done a lot of research into my industry. He's got me on
some very cool insurance programs. Good reasonable stuff.
His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE
From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:
Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain policies
even where risk of loss is relatively minor. E+O is an example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the bare
minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether the client
does $10,000 per year or $250,000.
Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties part
to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000 overall
program.
This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else. You really do get what you pay for. These
policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a claim paid
would be the exception rather than the rule. Plus they are likely
placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.
My value to your clients would be in the area of making their insurance
budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage with stronger
carriers. My guess is that clients that are generating revenue of
$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.
Paul
Original Message
Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
From: Dylan Oliver
I'm interested in group insurance. Been talking to United (through
wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what we've
been
offered:
$2,128 general liability property +
$700 umbrella +
$250 program administration charges +
$1,250 professional EO (optional) +
$250 EO administration charges (optional) +
$250 Healthy Safety Manual (maybe optional).
The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium of
$585.
And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat a
quarter
of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?
Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338
Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
hear hear. I totally agree with you. I have very little experience with
Insurance, but mine is a million dollar policy we use for towers and
other reasons. Its about $100 a month. I'm sure there's a specialized
insurance company that likely does this. Anyone have a contact at
American Towers? Perhaps they can point us to an 'industry' insurance
company or 3.
Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes
and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to
get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added
services comes members and money. With members and money comes pull
at the FCC level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule
the world. *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal
Members.
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
We use Basin Insurance in Moses Lake Wa. Gary Troutman has been
GREAT. And he's really done a lot of research into my industry.
He's got me on some very cool insurance programs. Good reasonable
stuff.
His number is:
509.765.4785
Marlon
(509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
64.146.146.12 (net meeting)
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
- Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] INSURANCE
From an Insurance agent I am dealing with for ISPs and CLECs:
Hi Peter:
At this level of premium there is really not much that can be done.
Insurance carriers typically set minimum pemiums for certain
policies even where risk of loss is relatively minor. E+O is an
example of this.
At $1,250, the coverage is probably very limited and that is the
bare minimun the carreir will accept to take on that risk whether
the client does $10,000 per year or $250,000.
Unfortunately, it's really not worth the effort on either parties
part to try and shave five hundred dollars or 10% from a ~$5,000
overall program.
This is especially true of they are actually looking for real coverage.
It;s like everything else. You really do get what you pay for.
These policies will have so many exclusions that actually getting a
claim paid would be the exception rather than the rule. Plus they
are likely placed with relatively [financially] weak carriers.
My value to your clients would be in the area of making their
insurance budget more efficent in terms of providing better coverage
with stronger carriers. My guess is that clients that are
generating revenue of
$1Mil per annum would be the minimum threshold where I can actually
accomplish some good.
Paul
Original Message
Subject:Re: [WISPA] WISPA and volunteers
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:14:08 -0600
From: Dylan Oliver
I'm interested in group insurance. Been talking to United (through
wispinsurance.com) and could use better rates .. this is what
we've been
offered:
$2,128 general liability property +
$700 umbrella +
$250 program administration charges +
$1,250 professional EO (optional) +
$250 EO administration charges (optional) +
$250 Healthy Safety Manual (maybe optional).
The coverage includes two tower locations with $50k and a premium
of $585.
And what is Fungi Limited Business Interruption? In case I eat
a quarter
of mushrooms and trip balls for a month?
Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
--
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
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Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized TK10028 $30,000 Peter R. wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With members and money comes "pull" at the FCC level. Then we get good stuff from the FCC and WISPs rule the world. *Right Brain* Lets do what we can to get more Principal Members. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. Regards, Peter 4isps.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] USF fund issues
Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I shot him a note this am. thanks! Marlon Kris may be a little behind. He was in Tampa for the ISP Expo Saturday. BTW, Dustin at RSENG / TransmitRF presented some excellent information on wireless. Expo Round-up here: http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. 813.963.5884 4isps.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Emailing: P1010644.JPG
WISPA's intrepid leader back before there was a WISPA. grin marlon attachment: P1010644.JPG -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 $742.85 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES $1,145.00 $950.35 BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 $12,941.25 BP5750SM-100 Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 $39,150.00 BP5750SM-500 Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 $163,125.00 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 $493.85 5700SMRF 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector $745.00 $618.35 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 $701.35 BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 $7,612.50 BP5700SM-100 Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 $26,100.00 BP5700SM-500 Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 $108,750.00 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Emailing: P1010641.JPG
He's at Cisco. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: A. Huppenthal [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Emailing: P1010641.JPG Where is Pepper these days? He'd make a great WISPA board member. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: This one is from the WISP showcase that the FCC put on a year or two ago. At least I think that's what it was. On the left is me. Then Gene Gains (sometimes he's got time to take people around town for some neat tours). Then I think is one of Scriv's partners, Danny. Then an investment type guy who's name I can't remember. Next is John Scrivner and Dr. Robert Pepper. This was breakfast at the hotel we were all staying at, near the FCC offices. marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
Well, I tend to agree. Moto builds cable modems, and other competitive products. We aren't going to change Moto's pricing policy, product strategy, or anything else - well, unless we all work together. I see 500 packs broken all the time - so that's the idea - a bunch of us put in 1/20th of the price of 500 units, buying 25 units say.. @ 1/2 the retail price. But 500 isn't needed here. There's a huge break at Q 100. So 10 WISPs could by 10 units each for a total of $2,600 each.. Instead of buying 5 units at list. I understand what you are saying Marlon. Moto doesn't demonstrate much interest in WISP strategic futures. They cater to their market - large consumers of their products. The answer is: Use whatever product makes you successful. I don't accept the idea that boycotting Moto purchases influences our FCC successes. Getting more members and continuing improved benefits grows the organization, and that action will influence the FCC. I'm not going to get into Moto vs. Microtik or whatever. Its not in my interest to argue for or against any vendor. For me, Moto kicked everyone's ass in terms of total cost of service delivery. Others likely have other stories, I respect that. That's the nice thing about owning your own business, you don't *have* to swallow anyone else's opinion. My competitors in the valley here are moving to Moto - about 2 years late, but do I care? no.. We've moved on to the next revolution. Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest fo the big. After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until you're pretty dang good sized? And how are you supposed to do that when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors? I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes. But 30 to 50%? Not good for the industry. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 *$742.85* 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00 *$950.35* BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 *$12,941.25* BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 *$39,150.00* BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00* 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 *$493.85* 5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00 *$618.35* 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 *$701.35* BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 *$7,612.50* BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 *$26,100.00* BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 *$108,750.00* -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] buying club meeting
Good ideas. Partnering with a successful existing ISPCON would be great. I'm not close to Baltimore, so it would be my first choice. :-) I didn't know there was a WISP buying club. That would be a wonderful thing. Do you mean like Price Club or somesuch? Wow, now if they'd carry the end-user products and end-user's would be able to self-install... that would change the business numbers. I did 'Telcom Means Business' for local small business people. Sucked the hell out of my time. Easily a few hundred hours of work. If the ISPCON folks would like a true partnership - i.e., they aren't making money off WISPA members, but rather increasing attendance and therefore value to vendors, well, that's a great idea. If the Conference is really geared to bring business to vendors, products to buyers, and help with the education process great. What pisses me off is that most shows became insanely profitable for the organizers, so vendors and attendees got gouged - and no one is going any longer. Ah, I love that the market rules. well, (except it doesn't for cable and telco monopolies.. :-) Good ideas. I enjoy these discussions. I feel uncomfortable sometimes having them on an open public list though, since there are so many lizards on the 'net anymore. :-P Peter R. wrote: If you want a buying club, could I suggest that you organize with one of the existing ones? Every time another one is set up in this industry, it dilutes the power. It's a shame the groups can't all work together more, but that is what is. (I have tried to collaborate that effort and I have lost faith and interest - too much self-interest is built-in to each group; ego; and power hungry executives -- Just the things that help the Tele-Barons and MSOs keep us down. To speak to meeting: It is a 3 person job. (I just did one solo). One handles the site and logistics. One manages vendors and speakers. One acquires attendees. The one with vendors is the poor slob with the biggest headache! If you want to do a combo meeting - like with ISPCON in Baltimore - you save on some logistics and get the benefit of a concentrated effort and marketing. (CISPA and WCA did this in Santa Clara). Thoughts? Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com 813.963.5884 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
I just wish people would quit quoting the Q100 or Q500 price to compare CPE equipment costs. Quote the Q1 cost. We all know that one can do better in larger quantity. But most of us don't buy in Q100 or Q500. Most of us do good to buy Q5 or Q10. The high CPE cost is what keeps me from even considering Moto and such Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest fo the big. After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until you're pretty dang good sized? And how are you supposed to do that when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors? I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes. But 30 to 50%? Not good for the industry. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services 42846865 (icq) And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: A. Huppenthal To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 $742.85 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES $1,145.00 $950.35 BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 $12,941.25 BP5750SM-100 Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 $39,150.00 BP5750SM-500 Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 $163,125.00 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 $493.85 5700SMRF 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector $745.00 $618.35 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 $701.35 BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 $7,612.50 BP5700SM-100 Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 $26,100.00 BP5700SM-500 Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 $108,750.00 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club
'people' is me. note: posting here showed $270 quantity one Moto SM w/power supply on ebay for example. Its just a thought. I've bought dozens and dozens of Moto SM radios near $260 each over the past 12 months all at 5s and 10s quantity. So it can be done, just wished it would be a bit easier. Blair Davis wrote: I just wish people would quit quoting the Q100 or Q500 price to compare CPE equipment costs. Quote the Q1 cost. We all know that one can do better in larger quantity. But most of us don't buy in Q100 or Q500. Most of us do good to buy Q5 or Q10. The high CPE cost is what keeps me from even considering Moto and such Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: Now if only we could get Moto to stop working so hard against us at the FCC and to basically use the average wisp to support the biggest fo the big. After all, who's gonna need 500 packs of anything until you're pretty dang good sized? And how are you supposed to do that when your money is going to subsidise your largest competitors? I can certainly see a few point spread for volumes. But 30 to 50%? Not good for the industry. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam http://www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - *From:* A. Huppenthal mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Monday, December 12, 2005 11:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE - buying club Someone asked a while ago about Canopy prices. The last post I did was on 900 Mhz - okay we all don't live in the Eastern US or other high-treed areas. Of course, if you are spending an average of 1 hour a month screwing around with each subscriber you aren't going to have a successful WISP either. Nor are you going anywhere if the FCC rules for spectrum always favor billion dollar auctions, unless you have a spare billion. Here's the same price for the much more popular 5.7 Ghz Subscriber modules. You can see dropping from $742.85 per unit to $261.00 per unit at quantity 100 gives the q100 buyer a huge leg up on the smaller operator. 5750SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module $895.00 *$742.85* 5751SM 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Module with AES$1,145.00 *$950.35* BP5750SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $14,875.00 *$12,941.25* BP5750SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $45,000.00 *$39,150.00* BP5750SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Advantage Subscriber Modules $187,500.00 *$163,125.00* 5700SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module $595.00 *$493.85* 5700SMRF5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with Reflector$745.00 *$618.35* 5701SM 5.7 GHz Subscriber Module with AES $845.00 *$701.35* BP5700SM-25 Bundle Pack 25 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $8,750.00 *$7,612.50* BP5700SM-100Bundle Pack 100 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $30,000.00 *$26,100.00* BP5700SM-500Bundle Pack 500 5.7 GHz Subscriber Modules $125,000.00 *$108,750.00* -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/197 - Release Date: 12/9/2005 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit - Connectorized TK10028 $30,000 Peter R. wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Would he give WISPA a good rate? Anyone interested could get quotes and maybe he could cut us a break? I want this trade association to get some members services so people have a reason to join. With added services comes members and money. With
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Yes, I believe I was looking at all 900 products. If a 100 pack is 295, a 500 pack (buying group) might just be affordable for ma and pa WISP. A. Huppenthal wrote: check if you are comparing apples to apples. 900 Mhz units are much more expensive. Have fun, whatever you decide. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point 9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES 9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber ModuleAES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100 446693 Bulk Pack 50: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-50 $4,500 413627 Bulk Pack 100: 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna BPAN900-100 $8,000 483655 900MHz Demo Kit - Connectorized TK10010 $3,000 495685 900MHz Access Point Cluster Kit -
Re: [WISPA] Emailing: IMG_0823.JPG
You're a dead man Marlon.. I'm calling the boys in Brooklyn right now.! :-P -B- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm cleaning some stuff up on the puter. Found a few pics from the 2004 FCC trip. For those that have never seen him, the guy in the white shirt is our very own Bob M. marlon -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
I'm now talking to Jamie Davis of a NASBA (Association of System Builders) insurance program. He's been helpful so far, and I've suggested they facilitate the insurance process for WISPs. I don't know what they've got yet, but check them out: Jamie Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1908 South el Camino Real San Clemente, CA 92672 949-322-3481 fax. 949-489-9693 Best,-- Dylan OliverPrimaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Emailing: IMG_0823.JPG
Who, ME?? Geeze, and I left Spokane so that I didn't have to pack heat anymore! Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Emailing: IMG_0823.JPG You're a dead man Marlon.. I'm calling the boys in Brooklyn right now.! :-P -B- Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: I'm cleaning some stuff up on the puter. Found a few pics from the 2004 FCC trip. For those that have never seen him, the guy in the white shirt is our very own Bob M. marlon -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE
I'll bet we could get coverage for the liability, but the riders for gear might be another thing. If one company handles a ton of WISPs, that is a lot of lightning pay outs... Dylan Oliver wrote: I'm now talking to Jamie Davis of a NASBA (Association of System Builders) insurance program. He's been helpful so far, and I've suggested they facilitate the insurance process for WISPs. I don't know what they've got yet, but check them out: Jamie Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1908 South el Camino Real San Clemente, CA 92672 949-322-3481 fax. 949-489-9693 Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.13/198 - Release Date: 12/12/2005 -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 "Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
$100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC$1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
great prices! G.Villarini wrote: $100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900
Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Plus the piggy or cable and connectors. George G.Villarini wrote: $100 for a 900 antenna? Yikes man were are buying? I buy 11 db yagis for around $40 , 15 db for $60 and 17db for $80 Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A. Huppenthal Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 6:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: WAS [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices we're talking 900 mhz, right? I don't use Moto 2.4 or 900 mhz stuff. never tried 2.4 and the 900 mhz didn't work for me - but it was a press. some 15 miles with NLOS so.. it could have been a path too challanging even for 900 mhz. $295 for a 900 mhz radios is very good. You still have to add $100 for a 900 mhz antenna. I've stayed away from 900 mhz mostly because of the learning curve and additional spectrum/antenna considerations. They are much bigger of course than 5.7 or 5.7 antennas/reflectors for the same gain, but that's obvious. Still $260 for 5.7 ghz radio with spectrum analyzer built-in, audio tone alignment, weights a few ounces, goes a few megabits / second, supports vlan tagging, dhcp / nat / shoulder-spectrums / has snmp / is supported by a network mass-firmware upgrade program (yes, its really crap, but at least its *there*). I could easily do remote upgrades of 30 units at a time without headache to move to new featured firmware - live, online, no crap-outs... Like I said, it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. It just was for me. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I've never done business with them either, but their 100 pack prices is 295 each for connectorized. Cheaper then some roll your own. A. Huppenthal wrote: I'm not a supplier, nor do I want to be one to the list, nor do I want to research on behalf of the list. google: motorola canopy SM bulk 100 pack. I picked the first couple of hits that showed prices.. That's it. I don't do business with Double Radius, so I wouldn't know. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber ModulesBP9000SM-50 $26,250 Double Radius has 25 pack for : $8,500.00 double to 50 pack and it 17k Will you please tell me who the Canopy major supplier is so I can avoid at all costs. The 100 pack is THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper at double radius. HOLY CRAP! Unless I am reading something wrong... http://www.doubleradius.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.81/.f A. Huppenthal wrote: I think WISPA has expressed its disinterest in a 'buying club'. However, if members on this list want to organize a 'buying club' - I'm all for it. Its clearly one of the reasons you will get your ass kicked by the telco and cable company - they have buying power and can get what you want and buy in 10s and 20s for 1/2 the price. Next to FCC, my biggest concern is that my *COSTS* are higher than Telco and Cable. Aside from the totally defunct Anti-trust activity of our government, *COSTS* are going to kill WISPs off. Hardware is a part of that overall model. The rest of the costs are contained in my business.. and I'm happy to talk about that with other WISPs at the *first* WISPA meeting. In fact, I'd likely talk about it at ISPCON as well. (would be my third talk there). Our industry really needs to pull together to achieve higher efficiencies (how to run a WISP), better pricing (buying power), improved governmental rules (FCC and others through a louder voice). I don't specifically reccomend any of this equipment. Get some and figure out if it works for you on your own dime. :-) Want a relevent example: a single 900 Mhz Subscriber Unit = $725. Buy 500 and get them at $444 instead. Here's an off-the-shelf price list from a Canopy major supplier. 432679 900 Mhz Access Point9000AP $1,895 427612 900 Mhz Access Point AES9001AP $2,395 498606 900 Mhz Access Point Connectorized (External antenna) 9000APC $1,855 487642 900 Mhz Access Point AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001APC $2,355 432631 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-50 $26,250 452650 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-100 $47,500 459676 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules BP9000SM-500 $222,500 460660 Bulk Pack 50 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-50 $24,250 467696 Bulk Pack 100 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-100 $43,500 483635 Bulk Pack 500 900 MHz Subscriber Modules Connectorized BP9000SMC-500 $202,500 433674 900 Mhz Subscriber Module 9000SM $725 430697 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES 9001SM $975 499667 900 Mhz Subscriber Module Connectorized (External antenna) 9000SMC $685 472614 900 Mhz Subscriber Module AES Connectorized (External antenna) 9001SMC $935 435698 900 Mhz 60 degree 9 dBi antenna AN900 $100
Re: [WISPA] Re: [wisp] Another reason to love the Barracuda...
See inline... ly. But no email server worth it's salt should dump it's spool and put out an undeliverable bounce in that amount of time. I disagree. Your view is old school, and todays a new world. The trend is that people want to know when their messages are not successfully delivered to the recipient. Its a have it right now world. Sending mail to a backup queuem waiting for the recipient to come back up, is a disservice to the recipient and the sender. They'd rather just know the message didn't get through, and they know they must call up the subscriber instead. Secondly, having backup MX records for store and forward servers can create a horrible open door for Spammers. In todays world, I believe scondary MX records should be used solely, to redirect to a redundant real time delivery mail server. Its better to send back undeliverable reports than to hold mail infering a fake sense that it was delviered. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Hey Charles ... long time no see ... any winog on 2006 ? Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 10:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell
I'd like to add, that US manufacturers are required by law to offer replacement parts for their products for a minimum of 10 years. Maybe it also applies to software? Its also possible that even through a bankruptcy, the liabilty to maintain that support may have been assumed when buying the product. I'm not a lawyer, but there may be some legal basis requiring Proxim to continue to provide the software to its client base. For example, software could be considered a spare part of the actual router device. I was just wondering if there has been any legal action from anyone, forcing Proxim to continue offering its product on a limited basis, apposed to them just doing it out of their own good will or experiemnt on if its profitable for them to do so. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell I am in the understanding that we will be able to purchase licenses for Turbocell for some time but that support and upgrades will not be available. I will not make any statements as to how long this will last. We currently put our CPE's together using ARC Wireless 19 dbi panels, WRAP Boards, POE, Power Supply, Hermes II mini-pci cards, 64 Mb Compact Flash, and a license (SV-4100-H) Total cost of these excluding labor is about $320. We are not building new Turbocell networks! We are only adding clients to existing Turbocell networks and continue to build out mini-cells with Star-OS and WRAP boards in a Hotspot format. I don't know that you have much choice for Turbocell CPE other than build your own. Thanks, Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell Thanks Rick.. I've heard alot about these WRAP boards. Is this something we would put together ourselves or are there products available. What are the costs like? I guess I'd really be interested in what I should be doing for CPE going on, assuming we can still get the Turbocell licenses (see post from Blair Davis re: Winncomm continuing to be able to sell Turbocell licenses). Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 325 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.uwol.net - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:25 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell Mark, Contact me offlist as we are successfully deploying WRAP boards with Compact Flash loaded with Turbocell. My pains are compounded about 4 times as I had about 24 Turbocell POPs when this all started. Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Office 260-307-4000 Cell 260-918-4340 VoIP www.oibw.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Intro/Karlnet/YDI/Terabeam/Proxim/Turbocell Hello to the list... My name is Mark Nash and I own operate a little WISP of about 300 customers in Oregon. For CPE, I started out using Breezecom 2.4GHz FH radios then switched to Karlnet RSU's loaded w/Turbocell. Then the YDI/Terabeam/Proxim series of mergers acquisitions happened and I've got products from all companies but they are all Turbocell CPE. We have 6 WiPops surrounding our customer base (rural southern Willamette Valley). We're using Trango backhauls...I started out using them simply because of their low cost and advertised bandwidth. I still have two in use from when the company was called Sunstream (I think it was 2002). I remain happy about that decision. We started out with a bridged network then ARP changed my tune and we went to a routed design. OK, so...there it is. For those of you who know what's going on with Turbocell from the new Proxim, you probably know that I'm not happy as they have set out to discontinue the Turbocell client software. So I will soon have to purchase new AP's and shift some customers around because I won't be able to purchase Turbocell-based devices. That's the word from Proxim. So...anyone heard any differently? I've also asked Proxim if we can 'downgrade' our Turbocell products to 802.11b and they are saying 'no'. It's a you-know-what sandwich from which I'd rather not take a bite. Does anyone feel my pain? Any way around these issues aside from replacing CPE? Regards, Mark Nash
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I have never done a group buy, but this is how I would approach it. First step. Principal Members only. You want a deal, fork over 200 some bucks and support the industry. Second step. Find 10 people who want ten units. (500 if possible, but prolly 100 pack to start) Third step. Go to moto website and look up resellers. fourth step. Call resellers and get quote. Say look here. I have a buying group. I want 100 SMs, charged to 10 credit cards and shipped to 10 addresses. Send me a quote to email Forward quote to next reseller and go from there. Whoever is cheaper wins. If they want the business of the buying group, they better figure out how to cut a deal. Am I acting like a know it all Charles? Would all the resellers say screw you if I approached like this? If all resellers say we can't do this.then I would (big trust here) run all cards through paypal and pay with one lump sum and re ship from here. Now add the 1.9% for paypal and add more for extra shippingdon't know what that would be, but it would be figured before hand. I just made all that up, but it seems like it would work. Only question is how warranty is handled. By MAC addy or by who bought the radio. Someone let me know if my approach is out of line. Never done this and might be reinventing the wheel (I hope it rolls) Brian A. Huppenthal wrote: Charles, I know you don't support the idea of group buys. Enough said. Fact is I've done group buys with high-end equipment before - it wasn't difficult at all. If you are comparing a public distributor to a closed membership buying club, you aren't comparing apples to apples. I sure as hell don't want to create a distributor organization. However, as our discussion continues, I might be willing to send Jim, George, Brian or whomever offers a group buy $2600 for 10 Canopy SMs if the buy is 100 units and we're all lined up. I don't need support, training, stocking, any of the services that distributors offer. Frankly, I don't need my distributor under cutting me to sell direct to customers. You have your pros and cons for going to distributors for *everything*. Certainly what's being discussed here isn't pretending to create a distributor that has *everything*.. Frankly I think the board with the exception of myself, uniformly doesn't support group buys. The buyers create the relatonship for the purpose of the buy, it ends when the product is delivered. Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Well, I'm not a Canopy user, but am close to making the leap. (would have done it long time ago if gear was a reasonable price) Whoever buys the gear. Group name or Joe Blow. Attention Canopy users how are warranty issues handled? If I buy gear on ebay can I send it into Moto for warranty? Or is it void because I didn't buy from authorized reseller? Brian Travis Johnson wrote: And, the other issue is the purchase will be made in the group name, so how do you handle warranty issues? Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices
I'll make some calls tomorrow and see what the distributors say. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, There are so many risks that _someone_ is going to have to assume. Example: If I say put me down for 20 units and here's my credit card. You place the order with the distributor, and I get my items. However, either the distributor will put each order in different names (thus, once the boss finds out it will be done), or they all go under a single name. Now, with my credit card being charged, but only a single invoice created for the big order, I can contact my credit card company and file a chargeback. There will be no invoice for the purchase, and nothing in my name. I just got 20 radios for free and the distributor just lost big money. This is only one example. There are 10 other risks to this project and someone will have to take them all... Why not just lease your CPE? Even doing 25 at a time, I think you can get 30 or 60 days before your first payment. Travis Microserv Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Basically what I propose (in a nutshell) is going to a the distrobuters and saying this. I have ten or twenty or whatever WISPs and we all want to buy ten units of *insert brand here* and have them all shipped to different addresses and charged to different accounts. What are you willing to do to accomidate us? I know there are a number of distobuters out there. Ones that do millions worth of gear all the way down to ones that operate WISPs and became resellers of the gear they use in order to get their volume up. If ten people can install ten a month. That is 1200 a year. If we look, I bet there is a reseller somewhere who wants to increase volume by 1200 a year. 5k a year wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far either. Am I dumb here guys? Why wouldn't this work? Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, I fully second your post. Well said. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] INSURANCE NOW canopy prices snip You would think it would work that way, but Volume Buying ends up eating the organization and the organization becomes caught up in being a volume club. /snip We all know that there's more to a WISP than just putting up an AP and getting a T1 line Having run both a WISP and a distribution company, I can personally attest to the fact that there's more to distribution (which is what your proposing) than breaking up a 500 pack amongst WISP Have you considered all the risks / implications that the buying group faces? For starters, there's the question of payment -- given that the buying group has no / limited credit, chances are that any vendor will require cash up front for the purchase So, for example, say Motorola Canopy is the product WISPA chooses Then WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ $100k to purchase that 500 pack (at say, $200 / unit for simplicity's sake) Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a warehouse to store stuff Then, WISPA / Buying Group needs to come up w/ a shipper/logistics guy to repackage / ship stuff On top of that, chances are, 50% of the WISPs who committed to purchasing the packs will renege and/or delay their deliveries due to unforseen things that always happen in deployments (e.g., lightning, customers don't sign on, interference from competitor, DSL coming to town) So now, WISPA / Buying Group needs to hire a sales guy to sell excess units Now, you've added overhead (and you need to add an administrative fee / margin to compensate) In the meantime, either 1. Motorola to announce a 50% price reduction in their Canopy line, and all WISPA members now wanting the new lower price (therefore causing a huge loss) 2. Trango (or some other company) to come out w/ the new flavor of the month and no one wanting the inventory anymore, sticking WISPA w/ $100k worth of boat anchors -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Brian Rohrbacher Reliable Internet, LLC www.reliableinter.net Cell 269-838-8338 Caught up in the Air 1 Thess. 4:17 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
