Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[ccrum]

We just have a 3 phase meter. They read it like any other.

Cameron

> Cameron;
> I was currious, how does your monthly billing work where you are located.
> Frank
>
> On 8/12/2010 10:20 PM, cc...@dot11net.com wrote:
>> Three phase does not provide any more or less protection against
>> lightning. I have three phase power to my house...lucky me...live in a
>> 60
>> year old house. I, and one other guy on my block who still has three
>> phase
>> power, both lost our AC compressors in a lightning storm on the same
>> night
>> two summers ago. Everyone on single phase...no problem. Three phase does
>> have some advantages especially with efficiency with high current
>> devices
>> like compressors and such, but it does not provide inherent protection
>> against power surges like lightning strikes.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>
>>> 3 phase metering (as in how much you pay the utility )is done different
>>> than single phase, I would check with your utility, also check your
>>> initial costs of 3 phase equipment - meter base and entrance panel. How
>>> I understand the billing in our area is, 3 phase meter has a needle
>>> that
>>> is moved to the max use and you are billed that amount whether the elec
>>> is on or off. Just check, it may not be important but then again.
>>>
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> On 8/12/2010 8:31 PM, Robert West wrote:
>>>
 Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and
 we ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical
 panels.  Total gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for
 the retail and service area in the front but we have three phase
 coming into the building.  Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me
 that three phase protects against power surges since it adds another
 transformer.

 My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a
 proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic
 power company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)

 Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of
 trouble   Not one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a
 stroke of luck, one that didn't involve the lottery  Figures.

 Bob-




 
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Re: [WISPA] Electrical Question.......

[ccrum]

Three phase does not provide any more or less protection against
lightning. I have three phase power to my house...lucky me...live in a 60
year old house. I, and one other guy on my block who still has three phase
power, both lost our AC compressors in a lightning storm on the same night
two summers ago. Everyone on single phase...no problem. Three phase does
have some advantages especially with efficiency with high current devices
like compressors and such, but it does not provide inherent protection
against power surges like lightning strikes.

Cameron

> 3 phase metering (as in how much you pay the utility )is done different
> than single phase, I would check with your utility, also check your
> initial costs of 3 phase equipment - meter base and entrance panel. How
> I understand the billing in our area is, 3 phase meter has a needle that
> is moved to the max use and you are billed that amount whether the elec
> is on or off. Just check, it may not be important but then again.
>
> Frank
>
> On 8/12/2010 8:31 PM, Robert West wrote:
>>
>> Putting together a new NOC.  The new NOC is in an older warehouse and
>> we ripped out ALL the crazy wiring and the multiple electrical
>> panels.  Total gut job.  Installed a single phase electrical panel for
>> the retail and service area in the front but we have three phase
>> coming into the building.  Electrician uncle Dude, 80+ years, tells me
>> that three phase protects against power surges since it adds another
>> transformer.
>>
>> My question is, would installing a three phase panel for the NOC be a
>> proactive thing?  Advantageous against the great lightning and idiotic
>> power company Godz?  (GODZ Rock And Roll Machine)
>>
>> Old location was all three phase and we never had one lick of
>> trouble   Not one.  Would this be the reason or would it be just a
>> stroke of luck, one that didn't involve the lottery  Figures.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Question #1 of the Day

[ccrum]

Well to help stabilize our environment from an RF stand point, about 4 1/2
years ago eight providers in our area (we being one of them) whose
coverage either bordered on each other or overlapped a bit got together
and formed a co-op. We agreed not to build towers in each other's existing
coverage footprints and to share network resources. By that I mean any
company could sell service on any other companies network and split the
revenue on an agreed upon amount (I can't give out that number, but it was
fair to everyone). It eventually evolved into a centralized support center
and now most of the companies in it sell under a common brand name even
though the physical networks are still operated and maintained by the
owners of those networks. Although we recently split from the group and
sold our network, it seems to still be a good model for those involved. We
never did take full advantage of the support and common marketing for
several reasons, but it seems to be working well for those involved. It
was nice knowing that the other competent guys in the area were not going
to be causing trouble for me. I had enough jokers who didn't know anything
to worry about.

Cameron

> Since rural broadband can be a tough proposition sometimes in terms of
> making a profit, businesses that serve these areas may require some
> creative
> thinking and partnerships. WISPs often partner with municipalities to
> obtain
> an anchor tenant and get a break on site rentals. Are there other
> interesting models that operators are contemplating that accomplish the
> same
> sort of public/private partnership?  ie healthcare, distance learning etc.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Rick Harnish
>
> President
>
> WISPA
>
> 260-307-4000 cell
>
> 866-317-2851 WISPA Office
>
> Skype: rick.harnish.
>
> rharn...@wispa.org
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?

[ccrum]

6 degrees on the vertical. Slotted waveguides are phenomenal performers.
This isn't your average t-line patch.  We had it tested on the Antenna
Products range in Mineral Wells, TX. The patterns were measured in both
the E and H planes and we tested several units to verify. They even have
some nice electrical downtilt built in.

Cameron


> 18.5 dB of gain?  And 105 * of horizontal coverage?
>
> That thing has got to be what, 1* or less of vertical coverage?  2* at
> best?
>
> Here's one for you guys to.  I didn't take a pic but it was made
> completely
> out of pvc pipe.  Even labeled as such.
>
> Had a cap on the top, pipe for the omni tube, and a cap with a hole
> drilled
> for a bulkhead connector on the bottom.  NO weep hole anywhere.
>
> Sealed with only black tape.
>
> So much water had gotten into the system that 50' down, at the amp, there
> was rust on the connector INSIDE the outdoor box that was used.
>
> No that wasn't my installation, I was pulling out someone else's that
> never
> did work right :-)
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Cameron Crum" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>
>
>> Here is one that we made for 2.4not MDK's but we used ours for
>> 7years.
>> Ours is 18.5 dBi (range tested by the way) about 105 degree beamwidth.
>> This
>> one is V pol. We did a design for H pol, but the specs were very similar
>> to
>> those old Hpol guides from PAC so we just ened up using those where we
>> neede
>> H-pol. I do however have Hpol 5 GHz (about 17 dBi, 95 degree BW) and
>> Hpol
>> 5
>> GHz Omni's (about 10 dBi) as well. We don't really sell them, but I have
>> a
>> couple laying around that I could part with if someone really wanted
>> some.
>> I
>> don't have any of the omni's as those we're a one time build and we
>> didn't
>> do many, but could get some cut if someone REALLY wanted some. I've
>> attached
>> the PDF and some pics from on top of a tower since the images in the PDF
>> aren't great. On the tower pic, the 2.4 is on the left and the 5 gig is
>> on
>> the right. Pic is from behind so it's hard to see much, but these both
>> have
>> the protective covers on them anyway, so not a whole lot to see on the
>> fronts.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Chuck Profito
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I stand corrected, dumbfounded and humbled.
>>>
>>> BTW  how about a photo and spec on that " our own design and
>>> manufacture
>>> slotted waveguide sector"
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck Profito
>>> 209-988-7388
>>> CV-Access, Inc.
>>> www.cv-access.com / cprofito'at'cv-access.com
>>> Providing Broadband Internet Access to
>>> California's Rural Central Valley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of MDK
>>> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:51 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>>>
>>> NOT.All my access points are star-os based, and I use NO amps
>>> anywhere,
>>> and with the exception of one long point to point link, no high power
>>> cards,
>>>
>>> either.   ( that link is now out of production, replaced by ubnt
>>> rocketm5
>>> and solid dishes.  )
>>>
>>> netbook end, is whatever atheros based card it comes with, the access
>>> point
>>> is a WLM54SAG, not the high power version, and set at default output,
>>> connected to our own design and manufacture slotted waveguide sector.
>>>
>>> For many years, it was a CM9 at the AP, but last year it started
>>> behaving
>>> strange,  and it got replaced.
>>>
>>>
>>> ++
>>> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy
>>> 541-969-8200  509-386-4589
>>> ++
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Chuck Profito" 
>>> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:03 PM
>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>>>
>>> > probably a ruckus on the other end
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On
>>> > Behalf Of MDK
>>> > Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 10:16 PM
>>> > To: WISPA General List
>>> > Subject: [WISPA] Is this a record of some kind?
>>> >
>>> > This evening I was at one of my access points... one that has several
>>> > backhauls and various 2.4 and 5 ghz ap's at it.
>>> >
>>> > After I was done with my few minutes of doing things, I wanted to
>>> make
>>> > sure
>>> > I had not physically disconnected or accidentally unhooked anything
>>> > (messing
>>> >
>>> > with the batteries, checking water levels, etc).I pulled out a
>>> > netbook.
>>> > Acer Aspire One to be precise, running windows xp, using the normal
>>> > wifi
>>> > card it came with.   I fired it up (it is set to "any" so it simply
>>> > associates to the access points that are open at home, work, etc),
>>> and
>>> > after
>>> >
>>> > I was done, n

[WISPA] Woops...Re: Call Tracking / Customer management software

[ccrum]

Sorry everyone for the list postreplied to the wrong maildoh!

> Hey Sara,
>
> Just checking to see if you guys were still interested in a personal demo.
> Give me shout if/when you are ready. Or just tell me to bug off and I'll
> quit bothering you ;).
>
> Regards,
>
> Cameron Crum
> Wispmon.com
> Dot11 Networks, Inc.
>
>
>> I'm looking for software to tract customer calls, trouble tickets,
>> appointments, and customer information.  Can anyone suggest a good
>> software
>> that can do this.  Id like to have web access.  I've looked at a few but
>> have never heard of most of them so I'm looking for suggestions of what
>> others have used and like.  Thanks for any input.
>>
>> Sara
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software

[ccrum]

Hey Sara,

Just checking to see if you guys were still interested in a personal demo.
Give me shout if/when you are ready. Or just tell me to bug off and I'll
quit bothering you ;).

Regards,

Cameron Crum
Wispmon.com
Dot11 Networks, Inc.


> I'm looking for software to tract customer calls, trouble tickets,
> appointments, and customer information.  Can anyone suggest a good
> software
> that can do this.  Id like to have web access.  I've looked at a few but
> have never heard of most of them so I'm looking for suggestions of what
> others have used and like.  Thanks for any input.
>
> Sara
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] RUS Deadline Approaching

[ccrum]

So, I've read through Alex's little article on disputing, but he seems to
leave out the part about "Existing Establishments Capable of Receiving
High Speed Access within the Proposed Funded Service Area". This is where
they want you to tell them the demographics of your service area. While I
have the tools to do this, it is not a trivial task if you do it
correctly, and I would doubt that most wisps on the list have the tools to
do it. Does anyone know if this is actually required? What happens if you
leave it at 0?

Cameron

> As you may or may not know, the upcoming deadline to file responses to RUS
> funding applications is May 23rd, 2010.  I just got off the phone with
> Peter
> Pratt of Stimulating Broadband.  He assisted 20-30 WISPA members last week
> in filing their NTIA responses before May 10th.  He is writing a press
> release now and I will be sending it out shortly concerning the upcoming
> deadline with the RUS BIP Program.  I will also be discussing a possible
> webinar with Peter and his constituent Liz Zucco early next week.  Once we
> have a firm date and time, I will be posting this also.
>
>
>
> This Response Filing is quite challenging but definitely not something a
> WISP should ignore.  This is your only chance to justify your service area
> and WISPs may be at the highest risk.  WISPs typically have already
> invested
> heavily into their infrastructure and customer base.  Although no one
> likes
> to have to expend time, money and resources to defend their service areas
> from overbuild, it is a fact of life with these federal programs which are
> mandated to fund new broadband buildouts.  If the RUS does not know that
> your business exists, the chances of grant money being allocated to new
> competition are much higher.
>
>
>
> Alex Goldman wrote an article last week and posted it to the WISPA website
> (http://www.wispa.org/?p=2189).  Please take time to read it and review
> the
> applicants in your state who may be planning on overbuilding your area.
> Get
> to work quickly as you have very little time left.  Also, look for an
> announcement later today with Peter Pratt's press release and another
> about
> a possible webinar.
>
>
>
> While I applaud all WISPs who have applied for Grant funding and respect
> that they have gone to great expense of time and money to produce those
> applications, I want to say for the record, that I also represent all
> WISPs
> (WISPA members or not) and resolve it my duty to make those WISPs aware of
> the ramifications of not filing their responses.  This has nothing to do
> with favoritism, the procedure is defined by the Federal Government and
> the
> information is public.  It is our duty as the trade association
> representing
> all of our members to educate all the best we can.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> Rick Harnish
>
> President
>
> WISPA
>
> 260-307-4000 cell
>
> 866-317-2851 WISPA Office
>
> Skype: rick.harnish.
>
> rharn...@wispa.org
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Who will be at the Dayton Hamvention this weekend?

[ccrum]

At least not the kind of chicks you'd be interested in.

Cameron

> Hamfest?  Chicks?  Are you nuts?
>
> Friendly Regards,
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:31 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Who will be at the Dayton Hamvention this weekend?
>
> Are we gonna go cruisin' for chicks afterwards?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:12 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Who will be at the Dayton Hamvention this weekend?
>
> Bob - Larry and I were discussing going - perhaps we shoudl drive
> together -
> I have a big suburban ;-)
>
>
> On May 13, 2010, at 12:04 AM, Robert West wrote:
>
>> I'll be there.  But no rubber duck antennas in my hat.  That be for da
>> chuimps.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Ralph" 
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 8:53 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Who will be at the Dayton Hamvention this weekend?
>>
>>
>>> Frank and I will be there.
>>> We have 4 spots in the flea market: 3829,3830,3831,3832 on a corner.
>>> Please stop by if you are at the show!
>>>
>>> http://hamvention.org
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>> Brightlan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software

[ccrum]

Be prepared to shell out some cash. In my opinion, it would be well worth
either buying an appliance from them or having them do the installation to
your specs. Documentation is lacking and it seems as though key parts are
deliberately left out. After a month of messing around, I still had to
hire them for a couple hours to "fix" things that were missing. I still
don't have it all working the way I want, but Wispmon will soon do billing
so I won't need it anymore.

Cameron

> Hey Matt,
>
>   I'm just about to start looking at Freeside for automating VoIP rating
> and billing. Have you had any joy with that? Only problem with Freeside
> I've seen so far is the lack of documentation which I'm guessing is on
> purpose to get you to pay for support.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Paul.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Larsen - Lists [mailto:li...@manageisp.com]
> Sent: 11 May 2010 21:07
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software
>
> We use Freeside with integrated RT Ticket System.   The next upgrade of
> Freeside (we are planning on implementing it next month) is also
> supposed to include a calendar that is tied to RT.
>
> This has worked very well for us, although Freeside has a few wonks that
> have to be dealt with on occasion.
>
> All of this software is open source, so you don't pay for the licensing,
> but you will probably have to pay someone for support unless you have
> access to some Linux/SQL/perl gurus.If you do have access to some
> coding talent, it is easy to add more functionality and features to
> Freeside.   We have added business reporting dashboards, bandwidth
> control exports, integration with Xymon for customer monitoring and
> integration with Asterisk to do robo-calls to customers who are late
> paying their bills or have gone off line and may need technical
> support.That kind of stuff isn't happening with Powercode.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
> On 5/11/2010 1:59 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote:
>> Yeah, I was gonna say. I looked at, and even entered my subs into
>> powercode
>> at one point last summer... happily thinking "this system is gonna
>> rock!"
>> and then I found out that I only get 1/2 of the features that were
>> advertised. :(
>>
>> I ended up not going with them.
>>
>> ryan
>>
>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Mark Nash -
>> Listswrote:
>>
>>
>>> I personally think it's more like $1.35/sub or $1.65/sub for
>>> everything.
>>> Our normal bill is about $1200/mo I think for 850 subs.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "D. Ryan Spott"
>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:52 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software
>>>
>>>
>>> $1 For everything or just half the features?
>>>
>>> ryan
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Something like $1/active account.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
 continue that counts.
 --- Winston Churchill



 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Sara Gray  wrote:

> How much does powercode cost?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>
>>> On
>>>
> Behalf Of Mark Nash - Lists
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 1:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software
>
> I use Powercode.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Sara Gray"
> To: "'WISPA General List'"
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 11:35 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software
>
>
>
>> I'm looking for software to tract customer calls, trouble tickets,
>> appointments, and customer information.  Can anyone suggest a good
>> software
>> that can do this.  Id like to have web access.  I've looked at a few
>> but
>> have never heard of most of them so I'm looking for suggestions of
>>
>>> what
>>>
>> others have used and like.  Thanks for any input.
>>
>> Sara
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

>>> 
>>>
> 
>
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>

>>> 
>>>
> 
>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

>>> 
>>>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Joi

Re: [WISPA] Call Tracking / Customer management software

[ccrum]

Wispmon will do all this and much, much more. It is specifically designed
for the Wisp Industry.

Cameron



> I'm looking for software to tract customer calls, trouble tickets,
> appointments, and customer information.  Can anyone suggest a good
> software
> that can do this.  Id like to have web access.  I've looked at a few but
> have never heard of most of them so I'm looking for suggestions of what
> others have used and like.  Thanks for any input.
>
> Sara
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>





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Re: [WISPA] New WISP

[ccrum]

I've never had this work even when using two 5 gig cards, one in the lower
band and one in the upper at least when trying to run dual nstreme. My
throughput just always sucks. Running 532's, however has great throughput
with the same radio cards. I've put little shield envelopes over one of
the cards to make it work better, but it still isn't as good as the old
532's. Just my experience.

Cameron

> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> I've been doing that for a couple of years...
> 
> But I've only been leaving 1 or 2 empty channels between them 
> 20-40 MHz open space.
> 
> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>   type="cite">
>   I have verified with a spectrum analyzer you can run two
> cards stacked on
> top in a 433 in the same 5.8 band as long as the channels you are using
> are
> at complete opposite ends of the band. 5745 and 5825 and 20mhz channels
> and
> they will not bleed over.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
>  href="http://www.wavelinc.com";>www.wavelinc.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From:  href="mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org";>wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> [ href="mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org";>mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 6:21 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] New WISP
>
> Usually 5.8 to the tower, and 5.2 for the repeater.  I haven't done any
> repeaters like this since DFS.  I do have a couple at 2.4.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>  href="http://www.ics-il.com";>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 5/6/2010 4:22 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>   
>   
> Are you saying you have two radios in the 433?  Are they
> the same band?
>
> The 411 and 433 share the same horsepower, in case anyone didn't recognize
> 
>   
>   that.
>   
>   
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> continue that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Mike Hammett class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
> href="mailto:wispawirel...@ics-il.net";>
> 
>   
>   wrote:
>   
>   
> 
> 
> 
>   Most of my repeater sites are about $150 - $200 more
> than the CPE.  I
> upgrade to a 433 from a 411, add another radio, bulkhead pigtail,
> jumper, cheap omni or sector.
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>  href="http://www.ics-il.com";>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> On 4/27/2010 10:19 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>   
>   
> All of my repeater sites have 0 infrastructure cost.
> I'm using a TV
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   tower,
>   
>   
> 
>   
> grain leg, etc.  This means the only additional cost
> is a NEMA box,
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   cheap
>   
>   
> 
>   
> battery, mt box and omni.  Roughly $400.  If I get
> one customer at 35/mo
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   it
>   
>   
> 
>   
> takes a year for ROI.  Two customers six months, etc.
>  I typically
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   charge
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 45/mo and get 3 people a day after the AP is up.
> Looking at my third
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   screen
>   
>   
> 
>   
> I've three repeater sites (at least) with only three
> subs.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   continue
>   
>   
> 
>   
> that counts."
> --- Winston Churchill
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Marlon K.
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   Schafer href="mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com";>wrote:
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>
> 
> 
>   15 per ap?  Man I WISH I could do that out here!
>
> I barely break even on a site at 15 subs.  (I really hate the sites
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   with 3
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   to 5 subs on them :-(  ).
>
> I think my highest site is up to 76 subs or so.  Got a couple of them
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   like
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   that.  They are certainly feeling the strain but
> we're out of channels
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   in
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   2.4.
>
> For the busier sites I've started to install 5.8 gig systems over the
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   top
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   of
> the 2.4 and charge a little more for it.  So far people would still
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
>   rather
>   
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   go with the cheaper stuff even though it's much
> less c

Re: [WISPA] Building Heights?

[ccrum]

WispMon does this and gives you freznel zone as well ;)

Cameron

> Wouldn't it be cool if when using Google Earth you could draw a straight
> line between two points and it would calculate the altitude of each
> origin point then mark in red any place where altitude is higher than
> the beginning and end points along the line?  For long legs in mixed
> altitude areas that would really be nice.
>
> Forbes
>
> On 3/29/2010 1:12 PM, Jim Patient wrote:
>> Well, it prolly isn't good every place but I just selected 3d buildings
>> on google earth and drug my mouse from the street to top of Met Square
>> in St Louis.  It shows the elevation at street level and the top of the
>> building.
>> The difference is the elevation of the building height in this case.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/2010 2:03 PM, Cameron Crum wrote:
>>
>>> Not for free. This info is usually pretty expensive for good high res
>>> data. That being said, one interesting flaw in the SRTM data is that is
>>> contains "building canopy" within the data. The radar they used bounced
>>> off man made structures and make them appear to be part of the terrain.
>>> So, in big cities, or even small ones in core areas, if you are running
>>> propagation plots, you would not want to add additional building
>>> heights. If you want the most accurate results, I suggest 10m DEM's
>>> (where available) with a good set of building elevation data (the
>>> expensive stuff). If you are just looking to run propagation plots for
>>> your unlicensed network, The SRTM data is probably good enough.
>>>
>>> Cameron
>>>
>>> On 3/29/2010 12:07 PM, Charles Hooper wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Hello,

 Does anyone know a reliable source/method of getting building heights?
 Something like a topographical map that included buildings would be
 excellent, but I haven't been able to find anything like this.

 Thanks!
 Charles


 
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] POE powered POE Splitter with Switch?

[ccrum]

They are Leviton and they work fine for our applications, but I'm looking
forward to not having to have the pigtails and being able to plug and
unplug directly.

Cameron

> Cool. Those look like Home Depot ethernet jacks you're using to attach to
> the pigtails. How are they working out for you?
>
> Greg
>
> On Mar 16, 2010, at 5:31 PM, cc...@dot11net.com wrote:
>
>> Greg,
>>
>> We build one of these for internal use (posted about it last week), but
>> ours is a passive device that needs an external switch. We use it in
>> combination with a 493 or 493ah on tower tops. It takes any input
>> voltage
>> from 18-96 volts and outputs the same input voltage on 9 ports with two
>> of
>> the ports switchable between the input voltage and 12 V. Why only two
>> ports? Well, to make it cheap enough, the voltage convertor we use only
>> outputs about 1 amp so running more than 2 devices would probably not
>> work. The voltage convertors we use are about $40 each so putting one on
>> each jack would make the device pretty expensive. I'm sure we could
>> design
>> a power supply that would do everything we want, but since we aren't in
>> the electronics mfg. business, it would be more costly that it is worth
>> to
>> us.
>>
>> With our next run, we will be making the board look a little different
>> with two rows of ethernet jacks on the front of the board facing out
>> instead of up/down. We find that getting the cables out of the jacks in
>> the current config can be a PITA (hence the pigtails in the pics). The
>> devices are about $150 in parts as they stand to make in small
>> quanitites.
>> I posted last week about it because I wanted to see if I could use some
>> simple ICs to detect ethernet signal to trip a power relay to make a
>> remote power cycle by disabling the ethernet port. Further research
>> shows
>> this is not possible without a PHY chip. I'll try to post a pic of one
>> of
>> our tower top boxes, but if it doesn't make it and you want to see it,
>> hit
>> me offlist. If you think it would be a big seller and you want to make
>> an
>> investment, I'm sure we could come to an agreement ;).
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>> Does anyone know of or use a POE powered POE splitter/switch combo
>>> which
>>> could be tower mounted which would allow a single ethernet cable
>>> carrying
>>> POE (perferrably 48v)  up the tower, and then would pass POE
>>> (adjustable
>>> voltages) to multiple devices and also act as a switch (preferably
>>> managed)? I'm thinking of something that would let a person run a
>>> single
>>> Ethernet up the tower and then connect multiple POE powered devices. It
>>> seems like this is something that would be a big hit. Yes, I Googled it
>>> first.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
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>>>
>> 
>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Some days the rats win

[ccrum]

How about cables? A bad cable or pinched pig tail can cause lots of
problems. It's hard for an antenna to go bad unless it was just
manufactured poorly. Cables on the other hand can get moisture in them,
get pinched, have a bad crimp or solder, etc. Also, changing polarization
in the near field won't have much effect. If the other antenna on your
tower is truly blasting that much power, a pol change won't help if it is
close.

Cameron

> On Thursday, I set about to fix a link that's performing badly.It was
> just re-pointed and working really, REALLY bad.   Somewhat intermittently,
> but still REALLY bad.I had already tried new radios at each end.So
> far, no luck.I tried a new pigtail on the low end, as well, still...
> No
> luck.   I replaced the whole board and radio setup at the low end, no
> luck.
>
> After much watching what it did and when, I came to the conclusion it was
> self interference.   Not on the same frequency, but I noticed that way up
> the pole was another antenna with the same polarization and it was almost
> exactly the same aim and polarization - I'm thinking I'm overloading the
> radio with signal.   So, I decided that I'd switch from Hor to Ver, on
> this
> link, figuring it would reduce the self interference.
>
> So, I went to the low end (down in the valley, 4 miles) and installed a
> new
> antenna, pointed it right, and real quick, switched the cable over to it.
> After a slight re-pointing, it worked fine, slightly better than the old
> antenna, which is an ancient Equinox.Cool.   But no fix for the link's
> issues.   So, I pulled the antenna down, switched it over to Vertical and
> put it back up.It was a clear, 55 degree day, sunshine.Could see
> perfectly.
>
> Drove to the hill site,  put a mount on the pole, and installed another
> antenna, about 3- 4 feet below the original, other side of the telephone
> pole it's on, and in Vertical, as well.
>
> Doug got on one end, me on the other and synchronized over the cell phone,
> we switched the antenna cables over.
>
> No signal.
>
> Now, it was brilliant daylight, crystal clear air, sunshine, and we can
> literally SEE the building and pole from the other end.   I re-aimed my
> end,
> swapped again.   No signal.
>
> Doug changed the dipole at his end, to one I had JUST REMOVED from a
> working
> antenna (took the antenna apart, but the antenna had been working 3 hours
> before).   No signal.
>
> I changed the dipole on my end.No signal.
>
> I changed the whole antenna.   No signal.
>
> Doug changed dipoles yet again to a new one off the shelf.   No signal.
>
> Original antennas are fine ,and the signal is around -64.   I grab another
> grid - one I had JUST REMOVED from service (replaced it with a higher gain
> panel), HAND HOLD it while standing on the ladder and point it to the
> other
> end.   -89 is the best we can get.   So the other end is the problem,
> right?
>
> Check the antenna taken off the far end.   Works fine.
>
> Mind you, we're 4 miles apart.   We can see the other end standing on the
> ground.   We can see it in great detail through binoculars. There are
> no
> buildings, trees, bushes, or other obstructions.The land slopes away
> from the hill end, and other end is 16 feet off the ground, angle uptilt
> is
> about 1 degree.There is NO possible fresnel zone encroachment at
> either
> end, even if you're standing, holding the antenna at chest height at the
> hillside end.
>
> So, what's wrong?   I don't know, and I can't figure it out.Nobody has
> stuff pointed at the higher end.   The other end is 270 degrees shielded
> by
> heavy trees, metal roof buildings, hills, etc, and has always showed zilch
> for noise, though the hillside shows some. There's nothing but sky
> behind the hillside site.   Nothing to point to.No reason for anyone
> to
> build a high gain beam pointing its way, and certainly there's nothing for
> at least 9 miles aside from my own customers that could possibly be
> pointing
> that way.   I have twice checked to make sure both are Vertical.   They
> are.
>
> Each time, we put the cables back to the original antennas and the link
> comes up.   I moved the low end accidently, and we gained slightly.   But,
> the antennas are obvious visually aimed.   And the replacement on the low
> end is HIGHER than the original.Almost 4 feet higher.The low end
> antenna is now the one I had working in Hor polarization.The upper
> antenna was new, and I replaced the dipole with another new. And then
> I
> replaced the whole antenna with a used one I had just removed the day
> before, from a working customer's site.
>
> I've gotten the link to work reasonably well, by reducing power on the
> short
> link (far end) and reducing power on the NEAR end (other link, 2.5 X
> longer), and using Star-OS thresholds, so it ignores the higher level, but
> out of band signals it sees.   So, my self interference diagnosis is
> pretty
> much correct.

Re: [WISPA] Buying co-op

[ccrum]

There is a co-op which exists here in the DFW area among several wisps.
The marketing name is Cirra Networks and they operate the coop side under
Wispops.com. Officially we are members, but don't participate in the
buying because we buy enough volume on our own to get preferred pricing
from our vendors. They seem to do a pretty good job with what they are
doing, and it isn't just buying. They offer other service like shared call
center, common marketing, etc. The website for wispops isn't much, but if
you contact them, they can describe a lot more about what they do. I'm
sure they wouldn't mind a few other members.

Cameron

> It's been a very active topic recently on the WISPA member list.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Feb 27, 2010, at 1:58 PM, Jeremie Chism wrote:
>
>> I'm sure this has been brought up or may already be one, but has
>> anyone thought of starting a buying co-op between several wisps to
>> pool the buying power and get bulk rates. I run into businesses all
>> the time that participate in things like this to be able to buy like
>> the big guys.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>
> --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
>
> "When the stars threw down their spears,
> and water'd heaven with their tears,
> Did He smile, His work to see?
> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
>
>>From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Billing and CRM solutions

[ccrum]

Wispmon will soon have a built in billing function, and it will also have
an option to integrate with Quickbooks. It already does high level network
monitoring/reporting, CRM, customer/sales qualification and reporting,
trouble ticketing, and workorder creation/tracking/scheduling. Look for
the billing to be integrated as of about April.

Cameron

> We're trying to get freeside working for us.  It's proving a bit of a
> wreck
> for us.  Would I go that route again?  Not at this time.  Once we finally
> have it totally up and running maybe I'll change my mind.  But right now I
> hate it.  We've spent nearly a year typing every customer in by hand.
> We're
> less than half done (one person, 7 hours per week!).
>
> We can't search on fields like what ap each customer is on.  We track the
> data but can't easily search on it.
>
> The call things their own code words rather than normal billing type stuff
> we were used to with quickbooks etc.
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "chris cooper" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:07 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Billing and CRM solutions
>
>
>>
>> I am looking for a new, off the shelf billing and CRM solution.  I am
>> not interested in writing something custom.  Im looking at Freeside,
>> Platypus and Powercode.  Ive heard that Powercode hasn't performed great
>> for people.  Any input on these three options?  Have you used them and
>> what do you like/dislike about them?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show

[ccrum]

I'd be up for Vegas. I personally like conventions there...lots of fun and
I'm usually doing too much business to bring the family anyway. Just my 2
cents.

Cameron

> Central is better. I like not losing a day for travel. I thought St. Louis
> was suggested at one point, which seems like a decent idea.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>
>> I personally like central shows because less travel time and less time
>> zone
>> change for all America attending. As well, this even is targeted as a
>> RURAL
>> conference, and might make sense for it to be closer to more  Rural
>> market.
>> I'd argue there are more Rural locations in the Western States.  But
>> Orlando is one of the lowest cost venue places for shows in a major
>> market
>> (after considering all extra costs) and Flights are always pretty cheap,
>> even from the west coast.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>
>>
>> Tickets to Orlando for me are dirt cheap.  Always have been. From KY to
>> Orlando for the FISPA conference next month it's only $222 roundtrip.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck Hogg
>> Shelby Broadband
>> 502-722-9292
>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:37 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>
>> You're wanting to go on a family vacation?  I thought this was to be a
>> WISP
>> conference.  Like, for WISP operators.
>> I, personally, have no intention of spending that much for airline
>> tickets,
>> and going to play with Mickey Mouse while I'm at a conference.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Dylan Bouterse
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Orlando!
>>>
>>> We have the 4 Disney parks, Universal Studios, Blue Men, Sea World,
>>> I-Drive
>>> area, Kissimmee area and a WHOLE lot more. I'm not aware of any zip
>>> lines
>>> though. :oP
>>>
>>> Dylan
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 8:29 AM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>>
>>> Phoenix.  Dry and warm.
>>>
>>> *OR* I live 5 minutes up the hill from a world class casino and hotel
>>> complex. http://www.meskwaki.com/
>>>
>>> I could host, and you could take turns climbing my towers, and riding
>>> the
>>> zip lines here at Gilly Hollow.  One of them is a terror at 750 feet.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Robert West
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:18 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>>
>>> I'm the same.  If Vegas, I'd pass.  Having shows in Vegas isn't about
>>> the
>>> show, it's about Vegas.  The show is just the vehicle to use to get
>>> there.
>>> A show in Vegas has become a cliché.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Glenn Kelley
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 11:39 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Wispashow] Decision on WISPA Show
>>>
>>> I was just in Vegas for the Ubiquity meeting
>>>
>>> If you are planning to take your family anywhere - VEGAS is not the
>>> place -
>>> IMHO
>>>
>>> When you get off the plane and exit the airport you are handed
>>> pamphlets
>>> for
>>> prostitutes to come to your hotel room from $25/ hr
>>> Having 3 daughters and 1 son ... I can tell you - this is hardly the
>>> place
>>> I
>>> would like to take my family on vacation.
>>>
>>> Disney sounds better ;-)
>>>
>>> Of course this is all business - - going out to Columbus, Philadelphia,
>>> Indy, Chicago, Denver - yeah - much nicer...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> _
>>> Glenn Kelley | Principle | HostMedic |www.HostMedic.com
>>> Email: gl...@hostmedic.com
>>> Pplease don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.
>>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Randy Cosby wrote:
>>>
 Next time, drive up to Mesquite  (1.25 hours) or St. George - Great
 rooms / prices you can feel good about taking the family to. :)

 Randy


 On 2/4/2010 9:12 AM, Eje Gustafsson wrote:
> *shudder* Reminds me of WISPCon in Vegas. The WISPCon hotel screwed
> up
>>> my
> families reserveration. Roadeo show in town and one other large
>>> conference.
> There was not a hotel room in entire Vegas, Henderson or anywhere
> close
> 

Re: [WISPA] [SPAM] Re: Burnt CPE from House Fire

[ccrum]

We have had this happen about 5 times. We let it go and actually give 
them a new one free when they get their house rebuilt. Those customers 
will never leave us.

Cameron

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> I had one of these too.  In her case we were able to use the outdoor parts, 
> just lost the inside stuff.  I replaced it just to get her going.
>
> I'd install new gear asap just got them back online.  Then I'd give them an 
> invoice for the installation and tell them to turn it into the insurance co. 
> Pay us when you get paid
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> To: "WISPA General List" ; 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 8:38 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Burnt CPE from House Fire
>
>
> Lost our first CPE from a house fire.  Guy was so down on the phone, I
> couldn't bear to bother him with an insurance claim on the CPE.  What
> have you done?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck Hogg
>
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com 
>
> http://www.shelbybb.com 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>   
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] OT - Glad I Didn't Buy an iPhone

[ccrum]

Yep...waited on the Droid myselfawesome. And I can write my own apps 
without "jailbreaking".

Cameron

Jack Unger wrote:
> Thank God I'm not addicted to rushing out and buying the latest consumer 
> gadget.
>
> If I HAD rushed out and bought an iPhone, I would not be able to rush 
> out now and buy one of these great new Sumsing Turbo 3000s !
>
> 
>
>
>   




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[WISPA] Freeside import

[ccrum]

Sorry to bother everyone again with a freeside question, but has anyone 
ever successfully imported data using a csv file into freeside? If so, 
could you hit me off list.

Regards,

Cameron



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Re: [WISPA] Apple & Disney TV?

[ccrum]

Yes but the sat companies used to charge extra if you wanted the local 
channels. Now, I'm sure they just include the cost in their price. It's 
fine with me as long as the customers don't mind the cost being passed 
on. I'm certainly not going to foot the bill.

Cameron

Robert West wrote:
> Everything that can or will communicate will end up on broadband.  The
> convergence of all media, voice or video or just data, into one data stream
> over the internet is happening.  The price we pay for access is not going
> down but everyone is migrating over to this one pipe causing more congestion
> than flu season at the old folks home.  I was wondering though, broadcast TV
> lost a massive share when cable became mainstream and many networks receive
> payment from the cable companies to carry their channels so would these
> companies really give up that revenue by going to delivery via internet or
> does anyone see them all eventually holding ISP's hostage for cash, sort of
> along the lines of the ESPN site forcing ISP's to pay for their customers to
> access the ESPN video?  
>
> We provide the vehicle for the delivery of their pay-per-use content.
> Personally, I would like to see any pay-per-use internet service have to
> chip in with some sort of transport fee or tax or whatever that would go
> directly towards the providers as a whole, spread out evenly, to help cover
> the cost of them making their profit.  We charge business customers more
> than residential because they use it to make cash and they tax the system
> more (debatable since P2P is now king) and I see this as no different.  I
> see it coming, am I crazy in this?  
>
> Just a thought bouncing inside my head.
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 3:12 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Apple & Disney TV?
>
> Highly doubtful that it'll happen, but it would probably be more efficient 
> if we took back all broadcast spectrum and used it for FWBIA - or whatever 
> the latest term is - and transported video on demand over it.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Cliff Leboeuf" 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 12:35 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: [WISPA] Apple & Disney TV?
>
>   
>> Can Steve Jobs unplug cable TV?
>>
>> http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/12/22/can-steve-jobs-un
>> plug-cable-tv/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Being Rude to Customers

[ccrum]

You should see what vomit will do to a circuit board...don't ask.

Cameron

D. Ryan Spott wrote:
> HA! I have one better.. I get a VERY timid call from a non-customer in  
> my small town
>
> Her: hi, can you help me? Promise you won't laugh?
> Me: sure, what do you need?
> Her: Can you come by and fix my keyboard on my laptop? It got very wet  
> and won't work now...
> Me: Did you spill something on it?
> Her: Promise not to laugh I have narcolepsy and I passed out on  
> the keyboard and filled it with drool...
> Me: I promised, but my tongue is bleeding now as I biting it to keep  
> from laughing.
>
> Turns out that saliva has some pretty good amounts of salt and sugar  
> in it, had to buy a new keyboard from HP and install it for her.
>
> She ended up passing out while driving a few months later.. I had to  
> get her desktop background off her machine to print for her husband...  
> Nice lady, ran the community.
>
> ryan
>
> On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Robert West wrote:
>
>   
>> I have one customer who burns up laptops.  Not from overheating or  
>> whatever,
>> but from cigarettes.  She sits in front of the laptop drinking and  
>> smoking
>> and passes out with the cigarette landing on the keyboard or against  
>> the
>> screen.  Has killed three in the past 2 years that way.  Sure, we  
>> replace
>> keyboards and lcd panels but eventually it dies from repeated  
>> abuse.  Or
>> beer being spilled on it.  Works for "awhile" until it gets fuzzy  
>> inside.
>> Yuck!
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
>> On
>> Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 3:34 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Being Rude to Customers
>>
>> Alcoholism is the leading cause of rude customers. Quite a few
>> customers on our network have a "do not call after 8:3, 9:30, 10:20AM"
>> note because they are totally out of it.
>>
>> Perfectly polite people before that time.. but after... WOW!
>>
>> ryan
>>
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Robert West wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> That's funny because I ended up having a conversation pretty much
>>> like that
>>> with the wife.  Get a notebook and a pencil, write it down.  I took
>>> it upon
>>> myself, after call number 5, to try to login to FaceBook with his
>>> username
>>> and password, password was wrong, reset it, retrieved his email,
>>> changed his
>>> password...  yada, yada, yada...  (I hate yada, yada, yada, by the
>>> way)
>>> Wife tells me that she thinks he changed it last night when he was
>>> drunk so
>>> that she couldn't get on his account.  But after all of that I  
>>> hear...
>>> "See, I told you it was their fault because he fixed it".  *sigh*  I
>>> have to
>>> add that they are in their late 60's.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 3:11 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Being Rude to Customers
>>>
>>> Send him a gift wrapped notebook and pencil with Merry Chrismyassmas
>>> written
>>> on it from just-micro.com. Include a note saying, "With this, you
>>> should
>>> never have a problem with remembering your passwords, if you just
>>> use it."
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Robert West" 
>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> Date:  Tue, 22 Dec 2009 11:33:43 -0500
>>>
>>>   
 Is it okay to say "Merry Chrismyassmas" to a customer who calls you
 yelling
 because it's your fault he can't remember his Facebook password?
 (Somehow
 I'm blocking his FaceBook password)



 Just wondering what my options are



 Robert West

 Just Micro Digital Services Inc.

 740-335-7020






 
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>>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
>>> $30.00/mth.
>>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [WISPA] Report: Broadband stimulus funds won't suffice

[ccrum]

With the exception of the local civil services, I would think that if 
there were a profit involved in those things, then maybe there would be 
some accountability too. As it is, most of those programs are nothing to 
write home about and most don't spend MY money wisely.

Cameron

Robert West wrote:
> But none of those would work unless they were setup as a not for profit.
> Any entity that is to serve the people AND generate profit walks on the
> edge.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of MDK
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Report: Broadband stimulus funds won't suffice
>
>
> And each of these is the evidence I have that I do NOT want them doing 
> anything more, and I want them OUT of those things, as well.
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Tim Sylvester" 
> Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 5:27 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Report: Broadband stimulus funds won't suffice
>
>   
>> Yes, I am amazed. Amazed by the bitching and whining about government on
>> this list by people who ...
>>
>> - sell wireless service using spectrum "owned" by everyone and allocated 
>> to
>> them by the FCC for free or low cost.
>> - sell access to the Internet, a network originally funded and developed 
>> by
>> DARPA and later funded by the National Science Foundation.
>> - drive on roads funded with taxpayer dollars and maintained by the
>> government.
>> - sell Internet service in rural areas to farmers that receive billions in
>> government subsidies per year.
>> - connect CPE equipment to electrical service that was funded by the Rural
>> Electric Administration.
>> - use VA health services.
>> - will use Medicare and Social Security when they retire.
>> - call the police and fire department when they need help.
>> - send their kids to public schools.
>>
>> Amazing.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids

[ccrum]

Looks like metal, but it is just plastic painted silver. A feed encased 
in metal would not work.

Phil Curnutt wrote:
> The 5.8's have a metal horn, not plastic.  The 2.4's are plastic.
>
> Phil
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Robert West wrote:
>
>   
>> Probably so.  The pac feed horn is fairly flimsy.  I'm always afraid to put
>> too much force on them due to the plastic seam along the side looking like
>> it's not exactly sealed much.  I always imagine the thing coming apart in
>> my
>> hand whenever I put the small metal deflector on the end.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Scott Reed
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:16 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
>>
>> Not just the icing.
>> In the last month I have replaced 2 PW 5.8 grids (29db) with 2' dishes.
>> When the grids were installed we got signals of around -72.  When we
>> took them down, we were getting -80.  The dishes are getting -69.  This
>> was 2 links, changing just one end.  We had a similar problem last
>> January.  Best I can figure is the feedhorn gets water in it somehow
>> over time.
>>
>> Robert West wrote:
>> 
>>> Oh, thanks!  I put up a bunch of those el cheapo 5.8 pac grids this
>>>   
>> summer.
>> 
>>> Now I have all this to look forward to.  Sigh
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 3:01 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Grids
>>>
>>> I should note my bad experience has always been with 5.8 grids, too.
>>>
>>> Never 900 and we put up our first monster Pac 2.4 grid recently.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM, jp  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 We've noticed 5.8 grids are far more affected by icing than 2.4 or 900.
 Ice buildup isn't different, just attenuation is.

 We stick to solid dishes or flat panels for 5.8.


 On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 11:05:01AM -0500, Michael Baird wrote:

 
> I've been testing a few 5.8 grids for some p2p applications we are
> developing. I had some Pac Wireless 26db's from old stock, I brought in
> some Poynting 31's for testing, the Poynting's actually do worse then
> then Pac Wireless which was rated 5 db less. I'm looking for other
> Grids I should be looking at (reasonably priced)? From our experiences
> with 2.4 the Grid vendor seems to make a difference.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>
>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>   
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>   
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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 --
 /*
 Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
  http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
 */





 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>   
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/



 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>   
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 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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>>>
>>>
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 

Re: [WISPA] Frequency Planning

[ccrum]

Wispmon will. You can enter frequencies per sector and get a "visual" 
view in the form of a unique color per frequency per sector on a Map 
among many of the other features. Hit me off list at my other company 
(cc...@wispmon.com) and I can help you set up free 30 day trial. Use it 
for your frequency planning project and you may never want to quit ;).

Cameron

Andy Trimmell wrote:
> Anyone have any suggestions for a program that we can use to document
> frequencies that is easy to use? Trying to plan 5ghz frequencies across
> several towers that are close proximity.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Insurance....

[ccrum]

Take the profit out of health care and the quality will go with it. 
Would you do your job for what the gov will pay? Maybe you haven't 
noticed, but it takes a smart person and a whole lot of hard work to get 
into and get through medical school in the US. If there is no incentive 
above "helping my fellow man," then you will see a mass exodus of the 
best people in the field. I know several doctors (specialists too) who 
are already looking at plan B in case of a government takeover of the 
health care sytem.

Cameron

Robert West wrote:
> Exactly.  We are the one and only industrialized country (with whatever
> industry we might have left) who puts "profit" in healthcare.  As you
> stated, their goal is to NOT pay and they can and do come up with anything
> they can find to do that.  
>
> Profit has no place in healthcare.  Single payer is the only thing I see
> working.  As far as increased taxes to pay for it, we already are paying for
> it and getting zero bang for our buck.  As George from the great white north
> said, healthcare shows up nowhere in his budget.  They just pay extra in
> taxes.
>
> Medicare for all.  End of the controversy.  Simple.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom Sharples
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:24 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance
>
> One of the basic probems IMO is that the whole idea of medical insurance, as
>
> currentlky implemented, is fundamentally flawed. Consider selling ISP 
> services under the model of "broadband insurance." Under that model, your 
> customer would pay you a certain amount per month in case he needs 
> broadband, and you would do your best to find reasons to deny him access. Or
>
> how about "housing insurance" instead of monthly rent. You pay the landlord 
> a certain amount every month in case you need shelter and he oversubscribes 
> a number of his units and hires guards to keep people out on various 
> pretexts. Sound completely ridiculous, yet unless you're in an HMO like 
> Kaiser that's the system we have now.
>
> What we need is universal (private or public) access to medical care, 
> healthy lifestyle incentives, and the elimination of stupid laws that only 
> serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs to US 
> consumers, restrict free-market access across state and international 
> lines,create incentives toward excess consumption and CYA medical pratices, 
> and only serve to increase the costs of medical care and prescription drugs 
> to US consumers.
>
> Tom S.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Insurance
>
>
>   
>> Someone posted earlier that the health insurance industry is not truly run
>> in a "free market". It's "failure" is exactly due to this. Even after all
>> the government rules and regulations, who in the USA does not have 
>> "access"
>> to health care?
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:58 PM, David E. Smith  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 16:42, MDK  wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 The free market really does work.   We use it daily in our business...
 Now
 
>>> imagine if we used it for health care, too.We know how to do that,
>>> don't
>>>   
 we?
 
>>> There is a fundamental difference between broadband Internet and basic
>>> medical care, and the fact that tens of millions of Americans have better
>>> access to the former than the latter shows that in this instance the free
>>> market has failed miserably.
>>>
>>> David Smith
>>> MVN.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
>   
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
>   
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>
>
> 
> 
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.97/2550 - Release Date: 12/07/09 
> 07:33:00
>
>
>
> -

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[ccrum]

The link to the enclosures from belowreposted here:

http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

although I buy mine at another location. Those have not leaked, but I've seen 
plenty of water in my PAC DCE enclosures. Here is a nice pic of one on a 
particularly cold day last year.

http://www.dot11net.com/pics/dce_water.html

Cameron



Josh Luthman wrote:
> What are "these"?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>
>   
>> We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success
>> with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I know.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> 
>>> Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to
>>> weather proof connectors.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
>>>> steel if not?
>>>>
>>>> I use these:
>>>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>>>>> radios
>>>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
>>>>> them
>>>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>>>>> marlon
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> From: "Mike" 
>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>>>>>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>>>>>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>>>>>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>>>>>> create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>>>>>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>>>>>> issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>>>>>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
>>>>>>> box,
>>>>>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's
>>>>>>>   
>> to
>> 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   
>>

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[ccrum]

We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success 
with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I know.

Cameron

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to 
> weather proof connectors.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>
>   
>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
>> steel if not?
>>
>> I use these:
>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>>> radios
>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep 
>>> them
>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
 messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.

 I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
 have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
 afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.

 The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
 create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
 of shielding if you attach the pigtail.

 How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
 issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
 multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?

 Mike


 At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
 
> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the 
> box,
> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in 
> their
> own
> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to 
> a
> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>   
>>>  That's
>>>   
> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone 
> a
> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a 
> doing
> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>
> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> another one listening.
>
>
> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
>> 
>>> push
>>>   
>> 3
>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your 
>> customer
>> 
> base.
>   
>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 
>> 2
>> 180
>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
>> customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
>> 
>>> just
>>>   
>> do
>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
>> where
>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for 
>> more
>> growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
>> 
> sector.
>   
>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
>> 
>>> only
>>>   
>> dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
>> remote
>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
>> anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card 
>> as
>> needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of 
>> course
>> until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
>> suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wire

Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link

[ccrum]

As to WispmonWe've actually restructured the pricing plan since MUM 
with all the great feedback we got there. We also have a "Wispmon Sales 
Edition" out which is pretty low cost considering what it does. I'm not 
sure you'll find another piece of software that will run three 
simultaneous profiles from the three closest towers to your potential 
customer in less than 1 second with a single click. It sure has saved a 
bundle on physical site surveys for the Wisp side of our organization. 
It can be subscription based per year or permanent at your location. We 
offer a free 30 day trial on the full blown version as well, so if you 
want to check it out, feel free. This is not the "better let us know in 
30 days or we'll charge you out the wassu" either. It really is just a 
trial.

Regards,

Cameron

RickG wrote:
> As they say, you get what you pay for. For normal stuff, especially close
> range, you can use a variety of software packages. But for a high dollar
> tower, you want someone with the expertise and the software to give you
> reliable results. -RickG
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Robert West 
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Me = Cheap
>>
>> RadioMobile = Free
>>
>> Wispmon = Yikes!
>>
>> It better be good but I think I'd need a few thousand customers before I
>> didn't feel that price.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:38 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
>>
>> A relatively nifty new monitoring service out there also has a great path
>> profile tool built-in.  The person that is developing the product is a long
>> time wireless operator, so he has a very good feel for what our industry
>> needs.
>>
>> www.wispmon.com
>>
>> I've been a RadioMobile user for years now, but have found myself using the
>> path profiler in wispmon more often than RadioMobile.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brian Webster
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:21 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 20 mile link
>>
>> $75 using 10 meter terrain data and 30 meter resolution tree clutter.
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Brian Webster
>> 214 Eggleston Hill Rd.
>> Cooperstown, NY 13326
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>> 607-643-4055 Voice
>> 607-435-3988 Mobile
>> 208-692-1898 Fax
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:59 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> THANKS to EVERYONE for their input. I'll let you know what I decide.
>>> Another
>>> question: Normally I do my path analysis with Delorme but I'm not feeling
>>> that is good enough considering the cost of the project and some trees I
>>> see
>>> in the distance. Is anyone out there offering path analysis for a fair
>>> rate?
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:36 AM, Mike  wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Rick:

 You have been getting some good advice here.  I am not a networking
 guru and have never played one on TV, but do know a thing or two about
 
>>> RF.
>>>   
 It seems with your physical layout you may have an opportunity for
 some space diversity.  A simple link will probably serve you with 3
 nines or so.  If infrequent outages will sit OK with the user, then
 engineer a link with single radios.

 If you use some of the more inexpensive radio solutions as proffered
 here, you could put up two links with 20' to 30' of physical
 separation.  Or, one dish on the water tower, and two on the new
 tower.  The single one could be the AP and the other two remote ones
 stations.  You could use an MT router running OSPF with one having a
 higher cost than the other.  If one failed, the other would take over.

 My fear of a 20 mile link would be those atmospheric events we
 sometimes see -- tropospheric ducting.

 I would be curious what you come up with.

 Mike

 At 09:22 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:
 
> Planning my first 20 mile PTP link. Path analysis shows clear.
>   
>> Customer
>> 
>>> is
>>>   
> building a 100' tower just for this therefore the equipment I choose
>   
>>> must
>>>   
> work. I'm free to use whatever I want. Suggestions?
> -RickG
>
>
>   
 
>>> ---
>>>   
>> -
>> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>   
 
>>> ---
>>>   
>> -
>> 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   

Re: [WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

I can understand this a little, but mail mail servers can be just as 
complex, and I can find tons of people willing to get paid by the hour 
to support me on any flavor of mail server on any version of Linux. I'd 
be willing to pay a nice hourly fee to get my problem fixed. If you have 
an installation guide out there, and it is accurate, I wouldn't think 
there could be that many things that could go wrong. The documentation 
is somewhat lacking. Freeside is distributing 1.9.1 but the latest 
version I can find on how to install "the regular way" is 1.7.4. I'm 
sure this is where the "complexity" comes in. Obviously some bugs have 
been fixed, features added, etc. There could be some problems in the 
docs, a patch for instance in the Apache set up portion that no longer 
seems to be needed, or new modules that need to be added that just 
aren't in the docs. The RPM's aren't "really" maintained so they are 
pretty much worthless. Support for mysql is just non-existent as just 
about everyone I've talked to has said "just use postgre and it will 
work". So, why is it even an option? I really am not trying to get 
something for nothing. What I am looking at Freeside for is to see if it 
I can integrate it with some other software that I currently write and 
sell. I wanted to go through the install process so that I could 
understand it myself. I'm willing to pay for services, but as the 
developer on this end, I want to fully understand the software and it's 
capabilities before I jump in with both feet. Seeing a working version 
is not enough for me. I want to get under the hood. I'm willing to pay a 
support contract, a licensing fee, or whatever if the software fits my 
needs, but if I can't even get it running to see if it will work for me, 
I'm not interested. I'm certainly not willing to shell out $2200 for an 
evaluation, but a few hundred is not unreasonable if it does what I 
think it will. More money will follow in the form of a support contract 
or development fees. Sorry about the rant. I've heard good things about 
the product and I would love to get to try it out, if only

Cameron

Jeremy Davis wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 16:01 -0600, Mike Hammett wrote:
>   
>> That's kinda sad.  All or nothing.
>> 
>
> Its not really sad.  It is nearly impossible to support an application
> as complex as Freeside without understanding how it was setup and if it
> is installed/configured properly to begin with.
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

Not any more...

Message from Ivan:

 > Dear Support Team,
 >
 > I've recently installed Freeside 1.9.1 on CentOS 5 but can only get text
 > (the perl/html script) when I try to navigate to the freeside web page on
 > my server. I've tried deleteing all the Apache configs and
 > reinstalling/rerunning the make install-apache accoring to the
 > instructions, but still seem to be having some issue. Do you provide
 > hourly paid support to help with this?

Sorry, no, we do not provide that service.

We can offer our complete implementation service or a hardware appliance 
to get
you up and running.

-- 
Ivan Kohler
President and Head Geek
Freeside Internet Services, Inc.


Jory Privett wrote:
> Did you try calling Ivan directly and have one of his guys look at it?  He 
> normally works on a per hour charge
>
> Jory
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "ccrum" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Freeside
>
>
>   
>> Scratch that last. I deleted the database and started over. Now I get 
>> this error:
>>
>> [frees...@localhost /]$ freeside-setup -d dot11net.com
>> NO CONFIGURATION TABLE FOUND at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/FS/UID.pm 
>> line 131.
>> DBD::mysql::db do failed: BLOB/TEXT column 'job' used in key 
>> specification without a key length at /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
>> CREATE error: BLOB/TEXT column 'job' used in key specification without a 
>> key length
>> doing statement: CREATE  INDEX h_queue3 ON h_queue ( job ) at 
>> /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
>> [frees...@localhost /]$
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> ccrum wrote:
>> 
>>> Running as freeside user:
>>> $ freeside-setup -d mydomain.com
>>> NO CONFIGURATION TABLE FOUND at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/FS/UID.pm 
>>> line 131.
>>> DBD::mysql::db do failed: Table 'cust_svc' already exists at 
>>> /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
>>> CREATE error: Table 'cust_svc' already exists
>>> doing statement: CREATE TABLE cust_svc (
>>>   svcnum INTEGER NOT NULL  AUTO_INCREMENT,
>>>   pkgnum int NULL  ,
>>>   svcpart int NOT NULL  ,
>>>   overlimit int NULL  ,
>>>   PRIMARY KEY (svcnum)
>>> )
>>> TYPE=InnoDB at /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
>>> $
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>   
>>>   
>>>> What's the error?
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Jeremy is no longer able to help with Freeside issues outside of their
>>>>> $2200 install fee. If anyone else has some experience, I'm willing to
>>>>> pay and hourly rate. I'm 99% there. I'm just getting an error when
>>>>> trying to run the database setup. I've posted to their forum, but it
>>>>> look like responses take a while on there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Cameron
>>>>>
>>>>> Jory Privett wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>>>>   
>>>>>> I second this  jeremery is great to work with adn his pricing is very
>>>>>>   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> fair.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>>>>   
>>>>>> Jory Privett
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>>> From: "Charles Wu" 
>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>>>> Cc: 
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Freeside
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   
>>>>>> 
&g

Re: [WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

Scratch that last. I deleted the database and started over. Now I get 
this error:

[frees...@localhost /]$ freeside-setup -d dot11net.com
NO CONFIGURATION TABLE FOUND at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/FS/UID.pm 
line 131.
DBD::mysql::db do failed: BLOB/TEXT column 'job' used in key 
specification without a key length at /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
CREATE error: BLOB/TEXT column 'job' used in key specification without a 
key length
doing statement: CREATE  INDEX h_queue3 ON h_queue ( job ) at 
/usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
[frees...@localhost /]$

Cameron

ccrum wrote:
> Running as freeside user:
> $ freeside-setup -d mydomain.com
> NO CONFIGURATION TABLE FOUND at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/FS/UID.pm 
> line 131.
> DBD::mysql::db do failed: Table 'cust_svc' already exists at 
> /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
> CREATE error: Table 'cust_svc' already exists
> doing statement: CREATE TABLE cust_svc (
>   svcnum INTEGER NOT NULL  AUTO_INCREMENT,
>   pkgnum int NULL  ,
>   svcpart int NOT NULL  ,
>   overlimit int NULL  ,
>   PRIMARY KEY (svcnum)
> )
> TYPE=InnoDB at /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
> $
>
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>   
>> What's the error?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> Jeremy is no longer able to help with Freeside issues outside of their
>>> $2200 install fee. If anyone else has some experience, I'm willing to
>>> pay and hourly rate. I'm 99% there. I'm just getting an error when
>>> trying to run the database setup. I've posted to their forum, but it
>>> look like responses take a while on there.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Cameron
>>>
>>> Jory Privett wrote:
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> I second this  jeremery is great to work with adn his pricing is very
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>> fair.
>>> 
>>>   
>>>> Jory Privett
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Charles Wu" 
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>>> Cc: 
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:47 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Freeside
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>> 
>>>>> The Freeside "guru" that many have turned to is Jeremy Davis (contact
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>> info below) -- I'd suggest giving him a call
>>> 
>>>   
>>>>> Jeremy Davis
>>>>> Maximum Technologies, LLC
>>>>> Office 318.303.4725
>>>>> www.maximumtech.us
>>>>> jere...@maximumtech.biz
>>>>>
>>>>> -Charles
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>> Behalf Of cc...@dot11net.com
>>> 
>>>   
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:04 PM
>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Freeside
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone help with an installation of Freeside on CentOS 5? Hit me off
>>>>> list if you have a minute to answer a couple of questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Cameron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>   
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa

Re: [WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

Running as freeside user:
$ freeside-setup -d mydomain.com
NO CONFIGURATION TABLE FOUND at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/FS/UID.pm 
line 131.
DBD::mysql::db do failed: Table 'cust_svc' already exists at 
/usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
CREATE error: Table 'cust_svc' already exists
doing statement: CREATE TABLE cust_svc (
  svcnum INTEGER NOT NULL  AUTO_INCREMENT,
  pkgnum int NULL  ,
  svcpart int NOT NULL  ,
  overlimit int NULL  ,
  PRIMARY KEY (svcnum)
)
TYPE=InnoDB at /usr/bin/freeside-setup line 109.
$


Josh Luthman wrote:
> What's the error?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:15 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>
>   
>> Jeremy is no longer able to help with Freeside issues outside of their
>> $2200 install fee. If anyone else has some experience, I'm willing to
>> pay and hourly rate. I'm 99% there. I'm just getting an error when
>> trying to run the database setup. I've posted to their forum, but it
>> look like responses take a while on there.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Jory Privett wrote:
>> 
>>> I second this  jeremery is great to work with adn his pricing is very
>>>   
>> fair.
>> 
>>> Jory Privett
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Charles Wu" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Cc: 
>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Freeside
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>> The Freeside "guru" that many have turned to is Jeremy Davis (contact
>>>> 
>> info below) -- I'd suggest giving him a call
>> 
>>>> Jeremy Davis
>>>> Maximum Technologies, LLC
>>>> Office 318.303.4725
>>>> www.maximumtech.us
>>>> jere...@maximumtech.biz
>>>>
>>>> -Charles
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>> 
>> Behalf Of cc...@dot11net.com
>> 
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:04 PM
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Freeside
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone help with an installation of Freeside on CentOS 5? Hit me off
>>>> list if you have a minute to answer a couple of questions.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Cameron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>

Re: [WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

Jeremy is no longer able to help with Freeside issues outside of their 
$2200 install fee. If anyone else has some experience, I'm willing to 
pay and hourly rate. I'm 99% there. I'm just getting an error when 
trying to run the database setup. I've posted to their forum, but it 
look like responses take a while on there.

Regards,

Cameron

Jory Privett wrote:
> I second this  jeremery is great to work with adn his pricing is very fair.
>
> Jory Privett
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Charles Wu" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Freeside
>
>
>   
>> The Freeside "guru" that many have turned to is Jeremy Davis (contact info 
>> below) -- I'd suggest giving him a call
>>
>> Jeremy Davis
>> Maximum Technologies, LLC
>> Office 318.303.4725
>> www.maximumtech.us
>> jere...@maximumtech.biz 
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of cc...@dot11net.com
>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:04 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Freeside
>>
>> Can anyone help with an installation of Freeside on CentOS 5? Hit me off
>> list if you have a minute to answer a couple of questions.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

Well, I'm pretty competent with Linux, have been through the wiki, and 
seem to be having a lot of difficulty. Many parts are failing due to not 
having dependencies, yet when I look, the dependencies are there. If 
anyone can provide some advice, I'd be grateful. Off list is best.

Thanks,

Cameron

Josh Luthman wrote:
> http://www.freeside.biz/mediawiki/index.php/Freeside:1.9:Documentation
>
> There are instructions any Linux guru should have no problem with and a
> CentOS RPM (experimental), too.
>
> Maybe you could ask your questions here and you can get some quick answers?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Charles Wu  wrote:
>
>   
>> The Freeside "guru" that many have turned to is Jeremy Davis (contact info
>> below) -- I'd suggest giving him a call
>>
>> Jeremy Davis
>> Maximum Technologies, LLC
>> Office 318.303.4725
>> www.maximumtech.us
>> jere...@maximumtech.biz
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of cc...@dot11net.com
>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 2:04 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Freeside
>>
>> Can anyone help with an installation of Freeside on CentOS 5? Hit me off
>> list if you have a minute to answer a couple of questions.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   




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[WISPA] Freeside

[ccrum]

Can anyone help with an installation of Freeside on CentOS 5? Hit me off
list if you have a minute to answer a couple of questions.

Regards,

Cameron




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Re: [WISPA] HotSpot

[ccrum]

How are you queing? Simple queues, Trees, PCQ? Are you prioritizing VOIP
traffic? Is this your main network or the Red Moon stuff?

Cameron


> No it cant.  This is what we are currently using  and  although  it can do
> the HotSpot and queuing  it makes VoIP connections very unstable  and does
> not provide any redundancy/failover.  If someone ahs a better way of doing
> it with MikroTik  then please let me know but currently  it cant handle
> the load.
>
> Jory
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jayson Baker" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] HotSpot
>
>
>>A P4 machine running MikroTik can do that easily.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Jory Privett  wrote:
>>
>>> I am needing to upgrade a HotSpot that has grown out of hand.  I need a
>>> solution  that will do both username/password and MAC based
>>> authentication.
>>>  It needs to handle queuing without degradation to VoIP services.   And
>>> finally I would love a unit that I can cluster to increase redundancy.
>>> I
>>> need a something that is capable of 4000+ simultaneous users passing
>>> over
>>> 200mb.  Any thoughts or suggestions  would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Jory Privett
>>> Partnership Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>





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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

It's not as trivial as you might think. Getting those things to couple 
just right is almost an art. If you've ever taken one of those things 
apart, you'll know what I'm talking about. Most of the ones I've seen 
appear to have the dielectric between the striplines "hand cut" and the 
thicknesses of the material even vary inside the same device. It 
probably has something to do with the materials involved, their real 
world impedance, and and manufacturing quality. It's easy to put it "on 
paper" (more like in Matlab), run the calcs and determine what you are 
going to need, but cutting the copper tape, and trying to get the 
spacing uniform when you are talking about fractions of a mm, is just 
harder to accomplish than you realize.

You are right though, it would be better to sectorize if you are going 
to go to the trouble of putting up two antennas. I was just pointing out 
a way to get a decent omni pattern with close to the gain he was looking 
for. Not sure why anyone would actually do it though in this realm where 
adding another wifi board and radio is only a couple hundred bucks. We 
did it on some remote cell sites along rural highways strictly for 
coverage reasons. Adding another CDMA or GSM sector is a bit more costly 
than adding a wifi radio.

Cameron

Mike wrote:
> I nosed around the Internet looking at the various designs of 
> stripline dividers.  It is almost trivial to make one.  But the more 
> I think about it, if I am going to coordinate a climb to hang a pair 
> of antennae, I'd probably just carry two radios up and run them 
> separate and sectorized.
>
> If both feeds are exactly the same, half the power would go to 
> each.  Receive should be symmetrical, and only slightly attenuated 
> from a single antenna deployment.  But, a point of failure, and may 
> be false economy.
>
> Mike
>
> At 02:13 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> There are several manufacturers like IF Engineering, Meca, RF Lamda, and
>> such of quality combiner/dividers, but pretty much any RF Design group
>> that manufactures quality hybrid stripline dividers would probably work.
>> These are typically better than using something like a "T" to
>> split/combine signals. What you want is something with low insertion
>> loss and at least 20 dB of isolation between ports.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>> 
>>> Cameron:
>>>
>>> Your prowess as an antenna designer is well known.  Define a decent
>>> splitter, and where one might find one.  I think that solution would
>>> be usable to a wide group on this list.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> At 12:05 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with
 three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post,
 a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a
 pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB
 sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just
 be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.

 Cameron

 Michael Baird wrote:

 
> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
>
> An example would be
> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
>
> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>   
>> You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS.
>> The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency
>> will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a
>> 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't
>> use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are
>> plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at
>>> least 100ft+.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: "Michael Baird" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni







 
> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, 
>   
>> looking for some
>> 
> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>>>

Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

There are several manufacturers like IF Engineering, Meca, RF Lamda, and 
such of quality combiner/dividers, but pretty much any RF Design group 
that manufactures quality hybrid stripline dividers would probably work. 
These are typically better than using something like a "T" to 
split/combine signals. What you want is something with low insertion 
loss and at least 20 dB of isolation between ports.

Cameron


Mike wrote:
> Cameron:
>
> Your prowess as an antenna designer is well known.  Define a decent 
> splitter, and where one might find one.  I think that solution would 
> be usable to a wide group on this list.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 12:05 PM 10/29/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with
>> three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post,
>> a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a
>> pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB
>> sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just
>> be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>> 
>>> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
>>>
>>> An example would be
>>> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
>>>
>>> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>   
 You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS.
 The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency
 will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a
 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't
 use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are
 plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.

 Cameron

 Michael Baird wrote:


 
> Tom,
>
> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at
> least 100ft+.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
>
>   
>> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

That is not really an omni. It is three sectors meant to be fed with 
three different radios. That being said, and in regard to my last post, 
a back to back array with a couple of 90's fed correctly would yield a 
pretty nice "omni" pattern that you could get close to 16 dB. Two 18 dB 
sectors with a decent splitter would yield a 15 dB omni. It would just 
be pretty "big" as far as antennas go.

Cameron

Michael Baird wrote:
> What about sectorized omni arrays, any of those out there at 5.8?
>
> An example would be 
> http://www.netkrom.com/prod_ant_5.1-5.8ghz_vpol_sector_omni.html
>
> Just can't find anybody who sells it to get an idea on pricing.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS. 
>> The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency 
>> will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a 
>> 9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't 
>> use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are 
>> plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Michael Baird wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at 
>>> least 100ft+.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: "Michael Baird" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni


   
 
   
 
> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>
>
> 
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> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
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Re: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni

[ccrum]

You won't find a 5 GHz omni at that gain, and if you do, I'd call BS. 
The vertical beamwidth on an 16dB omni antenna at almost any frequency 
will be so flat that the antenna would be practically useless. We make a 
9-10dB 5.7-5.8 H-pol omni for ourselves, but very few as we just don't 
use that many. If you need H-pol, hit me offlist. Otherwise, there are 
plenty of good 5 GHz 9 and 10 dB V-pol omni's commercially available.

Cameron

Michael Baird wrote:
> Tom,
>
> This would not be serving any customers, all the locations will be at 
> least 100ft+.
>
> Regards
> Michael Baird
>   
>> I'd be cautious about those Pancake shaped OMNI patterns at 16 DB.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Michael Baird" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 11:27 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] 5.8 Omni
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> I need a 5.8 Omni to feed some smaller sites via WDS, looking for some
>>> recommendations was hoping for 16 db but can't seem to find any.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Michael Baird
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>> -- 
>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 
>>> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
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Re: [WISPA] powering finicky mikrotiks on 24v solar

[ccrum]

Soldering iron. We just split the cat-5 appropriately, solder the wire 
on and wrap them up in electrical tape with a Cat-5 jack on one end and 
an RJ 45 on the other. This way we can just "plug-em-in" inside the 
enclosure when we get to the top of the tower.

Cameron

Randy Cosby wrote:
> Looks nice.  How do you connect to that? The spec sheet isn't clear, 
> just says it has "pins" on it.
>
> Randy
>
>
> ccrum wrote:
>   
>> I use some Cincon Part EC4BW12, dc-dc convertors for anywhere I need to 
>> power the sub 28v devices. It will take 18-72 v in and output 12 v. I've 
>> had to install a lot of these as most of our sites were 48 v. When we 
>> started replacing 532's with the 400 series, we had to put one in for 
>> every board. They are solid devices and I get them from Mouser (sorry, 
>> don't have a mouser part handy).
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Randy Cosby wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36191&start=0
>>>
>>> I'm pulling my hair out and wasting all kinds of money on voltage 
>>> regulators to make sure my solar and dc-powered sites don't cause 
>>> mikrotik routerboards to go into over-voltage protection when the 
>>> batteries get charged over 28v.
>>>
>>> I'm begging (and asking for you to join me) Mikrotik to:
>>>
>>> 1. Upgrade the over-voltage protection to 30v or higher on 24 volt products.
>>> 2. Never EVER make another routerboard that runs has over-voltage 
>>> protection at 28v
>>> 3. Change the over-voltage behavior to cause the device to reboot when 
>>> the voltage drops to acceptable levels, instead of requiring a 
>>> power-cycle to bring it back to life.
>>>
>>> Will you join me on this and let Mikrotik, your distributor, etc. know 
>>> your thoughts on this? This is not a new problem, it has been discussed 
>>> repeatedly on the lists and forums.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] powering finicky mikrotiks on 24v solar

[ccrum]

I use some Cincon Part EC4BW12, dc-dc convertors for anywhere I need to 
power the sub 28v devices. It will take 18-72 v in and output 12 v. I've 
had to install a lot of these as most of our sites were 48 v. When we 
started replacing 532's with the 400 series, we had to put one in for 
every board. They are solid devices and I get them from Mouser (sorry, 
don't have a mouser part handy).

Cameron

Randy Cosby wrote:
> http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36191&start=0
>
> I'm pulling my hair out and wasting all kinds of money on voltage 
> regulators to make sure my solar and dc-powered sites don't cause 
> mikrotik routerboards to go into over-voltage protection when the 
> batteries get charged over 28v.
>
> I'm begging (and asking for you to join me) Mikrotik to:
>
> 1. Upgrade the over-voltage protection to 30v or higher on 24 volt products.
> 2. Never EVER make another routerboard that runs has over-voltage 
> protection at 28v
> 3. Change the over-voltage behavior to cause the device to reboot when 
> the voltage drops to acceptable levels, instead of requiring a 
> power-cycle to bring it back to life.
>
> Will you join me on this and let Mikrotik, your distributor, etc. know 
> your thoughts on this? This is not a new problem, it has been discussed 
> repeatedly on the lists and forums.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Sectoring a tower

[ccrum]

As an RF Engineer and an antenna designer, I can say that you don't want 
180's. Go with the 120's or even some 90's. You'll get pretty good 
coverage all the way around even with a couple of 90's back to back. If 
you are really worried about the small nulls on the sides, make sure 
your main beam is pointed to the highest traffic areas.

Cameron

Jason Hensley wrote:
> Hey Mark.  My experience on the Pac 120* H-Pol sectors is that you will come
> very close to 360* with just two of them.  I would stay away from 180's.  I
> think it was the good man Marlin that sent me some info about those a few
> years back when I considered this and I decided on the 120's.  Worked great
> at very close to 360.  You may get some odd lobes and dead space but planned
> accordingly you can probably cover what you need with just two of them.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mark McElvy
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Sectoring a tower
>
> I have one of my towers that has grown to 32 subs, This is a MT ap and I
> hear that is the magic limit. The only current issue I have with it  CPU
> maxing out at peak times and I am planning a board swap for that. I was
> also thinking of sectoring but do not feel the need for three. Having a
> hard time finding a 180 deg HPOL 2.4Ghz sector. Found one that SuperPass
> sells but the quality does not seem to be there.
>
>  
>
> Mark 
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Would like to purchase some RF glasses...

[ccrum]

It's possible, too that the tree was helping you by adding a diffracting 
object to the path. I once saw a uW link in Germany that had to go over 
a sharp mountain peak. There was no way to get a repeater or even a 
reflector up there, so they used the peak to diffract the signal to the 
other side. It's possible that the tree with leaves was acting more like 
a solid object and now that there are no leaves, the branches simply 
scatter the signal. Either way, it sounds like you have found an RF dead 
zone for your tower (or as someone else has stated, you've got some bad 
equipment). Are you between two sectors? I'd try moving up 10 feet if 
possible and see what your signal looks like. I'd also try with a 
different set of equipment - all different just to be sure that 
something funky didn't happen to your set up.

Cameron

Scott Reed wrote:
> The multipath you are describing is that in which the signal arrives 
> from two paths slightly out of phase.
> If the path length of the reflected signal is just right, the signal 
> arrives 180 degrees out of phase, thus canceling the direct signal.  
> Google Moire Pattern for examples of how this works.
> The fact you have LOS and yet only get -84 or so would seem to indicate 
> that multi-path is the issue or you have a hardware problem.
>
> John Vogel wrote:
>   
>> The terrain between the AP and the CPE is such that I would ordinarily
>> consider it a slam-dunk. Standing there on the ground next to the house
>> and looking at the (almost) clear view of the tower, with nothing in
>> between that I would consider to be capable of creating multi-path
>> reflections, my thought is that there is no way for this link to not
>> work. heh...
>>
>> That being said, my experience with multi-path is that you may get wild
>> fluctuations in RSSI, or you may get great signal, but lots of dropped
>> packets. But you still get signal. In this case, at that particular
>> elevation, nothing. Like something is completely blocking the signal,
>> not that you are getting the signal from multiple directions. It's like
>> there is a dead zone from 14.5 feet AGL to about 16 ft. AGL. And that
>> tree isn't very big.
>>
>> The only thing comparable I have experienced is with a wireless security
>> camera that was broadcasting enough signal that the CPE wasn't able to
>> hear the AP, but I know of nothing within 1/2 mile of this house that
>> could be generating any significant amount of signal.
>>
>> John
>>
>> Scott Reed wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Or the tree is no longer blocking multi-path interference.
>>>
>>> Jayson Baker wrote:
>>>   
>>> 
>>>   
 Multipath interference from the tree.

 On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 10:01 PM, John Vogel  wrote:

   
 
   
 
> So... I have a customer, been on for a couple of years now. The CPE on
> their home quit working. I go to check it out, log into the CPE from
> their computer, everything looks good, except that a scan for AP's shows
> only the linksys router they have in the house. This is a MT411 with an
> R52 card in it, with a 14dB panel enclosure. I assume the radio card
> quit receiving or a bad pigtail, so I go retrieve the unit from the
> mount, which is about 15 feet AGL (mounted on the facia at the peak of
> the gabled end of the house). I have my bucket truck parked just below
> where the unit was mounted, so I am standing just about straight under
> where the CPE had been when I take it apart to check it out.
>
> First thing I notice when disassembling the unit is that the SMA
> connector was pretty loose, so just for kicks, I tighten it down and
> boot it up. I have my laptop right there at the back of the truck, so I
> am powering it off of the truck and can log into it standing right
> there. I can see the tower my AP's are on, just one lonely tree between
> me and it, about a half mile away and it doesn't have any leaves on it
> anymore (the tower is about 3 miles away). I can sometimes pick up the
> tower directly from my laptop, so this link is a piece of cake, right?
> So after tightening the SMA connector, and booting up the unit, I pick
> it up and point it in the general direction of the tower. It links up.
> -84 to -86 RSSI.  So, even though I didn't really think the SMA
> connector being loose had been the problem, it must have been. So I
> re-mount the unit up where it had been. Log into it, and... nothing.
> Scans for AP's show nothing except the linksys. While I am up there, I
> can see about 80% of the water tower the AP's are on, that one lonely,
> straggly, leafless little tree is technically denying me LOS, but, this
> link worked all through the summer just fine, when that one tree had
> leaves on it. But, no AP's showing in the scan.
>
> Maybe I knocked something loose, or there is a problem with the power
> supply coming from the i

Re: [WISPA] Link stability

[ccrum]

I would think you should be seeing a better signal than that. I'd 
replace cards, pigtails, and LMR again.

Cameron

Mark McElvy wrote:
> I have a wireless backhaul link that is not as stable as I would like.
> It is a 15.5 mile shot that has been up for 3 years. MT/CM9/32db dish on
> both ends. On a clear day I am only seeing a -83 on each end. All the
> radio equip was replaced April 08 due to lighting, still have the
> original 3ft LMR-400 and antenna. I seem to remember the signal being in
> the -70 range prior to the lightning replacements. 
>
>  
>
> Right now the link is down with random reconnects with a -92 and then it
> will drop again. Weather is misty thick and overcast. I kinda of have a
> twofold question, could the weather be attenuating the signal enough to
> drop the connection? I think yes. Second, could I have a
> weakened/damaged antenna causing the general drop in signal?
>
>  
>
> Mark 
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

[ccrum]

We're on the same page now. We've been working on circular designs not 
just for UHF but uW also. I too think there are major benefits here. We 
design, manufacture, and use all our tower antennas (please...no remarks 
about certification) and really think there is a benefit to circular 
pol. Nice thing about them too, they are very broadband by nature and 
you can always build a choke or filter to filter out unwanted bands. 
This will most likely be the way things end up. As for the TVRO dishes, 
when I was a boy my parents used to ship me off to my grandparent's in 
Alabama for the summers. My grandfather, who founded the Army missile 
school at Redstone, built an 18 ft dish out of wood and aluminum and 
designed his own tracking device so he could get "free cable." I got to 
help. I wonder where my interest in this stuff comes from?

Cameron

Mike wrote:
> Cameron:
>
> Great, some good dialogue.  When I used the example of a LPDA or 
> Yagi, I was trying to scale the antenna to something easy to 
> visualize.  Everyone knows what a Yagi, or as has been used as 
> example -- the "TV" antenna or log periodic look like.  1/4 wave and 
> 1/2 wave radiator lengths are easy to calculate AND visualize.  The 
> solution will no doubt be other than either.
>
> Necessity is the mother of invention.  If you build it they will 
> come.  Most potential customers that would benefit from a 2 1/2 foot 
> by 2 1/2 foot panel antenna, at least in my market, wouldn't balk at 
> such a device if it meant they could finally get "Internet."
>
> I still believe there are many great innovations in antenna 
> technology still to come. I believe one innovation will be new ways 
> of laying out the elements in a multi-element patch.  If you can 
> increase the capture area or aperture of a radiator, it will respond 
> to signals more easily.  Maybe some sort of fractal element is the 
> answer.  I think circular polarity at UHF frequencies also has great 
> potential.  You could reuse frequencies by deploying opposite 
> polarity sense;  A left hand circularly polarized signal would be -20 
> dBc when looking at a right hand circular polarity source.  Either a 
> vertically or horizontally polarized signal would be -8 dBc when 
> received by either left or right.
>
> Another thing not to lose sight of is that lower practical gains will 
> be usable compared to microwave, because of that larger aperture.  A 
> 9 dBi or dBc radiator might work as well or better than a 12 or 15 
> dBi antenna at 5.8 GHz.
>
> Yes they will be bigger.  Will people balk?  I hated the Taurus when 
> they first came out.  When they redid the Jeep Cherokee I hated 
> it.  It grew on me.  Remember the TVRO dishes people had in their 
> yards?  Ever lived next door to a ham?  :-)
>
> Friendly Regards,
>
> Mike Gilchrist
>
>
> At 02:08 PM 10/23/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> Mike, you are certainly correct about the propagation characteristics.
>> This is both good and bad depending on how people plan to deploy. I
>> think that a lot of people are thinking that this space will let you
>> have a self installed, desktop unit because of the NLOS and indoor
>> penetration. My point is that units like these would have trouble on the
>> uplink because they would have low power and possibly negative gain. A
>> yagi, while a good technical solution is visibly unattractive and I know
>> that many of my customers would not allow me to install one. A panel
>> with similar gain characteristics to a yagi will be large (compared to
>> what people are used to) at these frequencies, again a barrier to
>> overcome to convince some customers. I'm not arguing either...30m is way
>> out there, but 24x24 panel is not, and would probably still be pretty
>> low gain, depending on if it is a patch, array of dipoles, or whatever.
>> That size antenna on the roof will be a turn off to a lot of customers.
>> Also, on the towers, to get decent gain (assuming that the power
>> limitations will be very low) on a linearly polarized, broad beam
>> antenna, the antenna will be larger than anything people have seen to
>> date. Yagi's and lp's won't work here. Again a lot will depend on how
>> the networks are designed and deployed, but my feeling is that because
>> of the (assumed) power constraints that will most likely be placed on
>> the band, and the size limitations that will be a necessity on the
>> towers, a given network may well end up with more towers, not fewer as
>> one would assume because of the better propagation characteristics.
>> Lower frequency is not the end all panacea that many are hoping for.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>> 
>>> Well the comments I've heard ARE ludicrous.  Antennas as big as a TV
>>> antenna, 30 meter antennas, and others.
>>>
>>> Free space path loss is greater at 5.8 GHz than at 2.4
>>> GHz.  Substantially.  Free space path loss at 700 MHz, or 600 or 500
>>> is also SUBSTANTIALLY lesser than at 2.4 GHz.
>>>
>>> Free space path loss is

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

[ccrum]

Mike, you are certainly correct about the propagation characteristics. 
This is both good and bad depending on how people plan to deploy. I 
think that a lot of people are thinking that this space will let you 
have a self installed, desktop unit because of the NLOS and indoor 
penetration. My point is that units like these would have trouble on the 
uplink because they would have low power and possibly negative gain. A 
yagi, while a good technical solution is visibly unattractive and I know 
that many of my customers would not allow me to install one. A panel 
with similar gain characteristics to a yagi will be large (compared to 
what people are used to) at these frequencies, again a barrier to 
overcome to convince some customers. I'm not arguing either...30m is way 
out there, but 24x24 panel is not, and would probably still be pretty 
low gain, depending on if it is a patch, array of dipoles, or whatever. 
That size antenna on the roof will be a turn off to a lot of customers. 
Also, on the towers, to get decent gain (assuming that the power 
limitations will be very low) on a linearly polarized, broad beam 
antenna, the antenna will be larger than anything people have seen to 
date. Yagi's and lp's won't work here. Again a lot will depend on how 
the networks are designed and deployed, but my feeling is that because 
of the (assumed) power constraints that will most likely be placed on 
the band, and the size limitations that will be a necessity on the 
towers, a given network may well end up with more towers, not fewer as 
one would assume because of the better propagation characteristics. 
Lower frequency is not the end all panacea that many are hoping for.

Regards,

Cameron

Mike wrote:
> Well the comments I've heard ARE ludicrous.  Antennas as big as a TV 
> antenna, 30 meter antennas, and others.
>
> Free space path loss is greater at 5.8 GHz than at 2.4 
> GHz.  Substantially.  Free space path loss at 700 MHz, or 600 or 500 
> is also SUBSTANTIALLY lesser than at 2.4 GHz.
>
> Free space path loss is proportional to the square of the distance 
> between the transmitter and receiver, and also proportional to the 
> square of the FREQUENCY of the radio signal.
>
> The FREQUENCY effect of the free space path loss is directly coupled 
> to the aperture of the antenna, which describes how sensitive an 
> antenna is to an incoming electromagnetic wave for which it is 
> resonant.  Lower frequency equates to a larger aperture, and a larger 
> capture area for similar antennas, as compared to a much higher frequency.
>
> If it is indeed a narrow band, then of course the chances of self 
> interference are there.  The propagation characteristics of UHF for 
> fixed wireless are what cause me to want to "play" in this band 
> instead of some new allocation in the microwave regions.  Think 
> through the trees, over the horizon, near line of site possibilities.
>
> You also can't just reinvent the Yagi-Yuda or log periodic antenna 
> either.  The sizes I stated for those frequencies ARE the full size 
> of an antenna, not some miniaturized or "rabbit ear" antenna.
>
> Actually, I don't even think I'm arguing anything, just trying to 
> dispel a belief that white space antennas are these huge 
> monstrosities; they aren't.
>
> For what it's worth, my personal record for distance on UHF is around 
> 44,000 miles. REALLY!
>
> Mike
>
> At 12:20 PM 10/23/2009,Cameron wrote:
>   
>> It is not "ludacrous". Sure you can receive with a small yagi or panel
>> or heck, even a set of rabbit ears. It's the uplink that will be the
>> major issue. If you are using small cells for coverage you can probably
>> get away with "smaller" antennas on the towers, but this will limit your
>> uplink capability if you are wanting a desktop type CPE or even a small
>> roof mount antenna. Small cell coverage like with uW freqs will have to
>> be carefully planned due to the propagation characteristics and the
>> potential for self interfernece on such a narrow band. It's not
>> impossible, just more complicated.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Mike wrote:
>> 
>>> At 704 MHz, a quarter wave is about 4 inches long.  The driven
>>> element of a Yagi would be about 8 inches long.  They would be way
>>> shorter than 30 meters, or what do you mean?  Think about the 900 MHz
>>> antennas you see but just a little bigger for the upper UHF white space.
>>>
>>> Ch 52 is 698 MHz.  Ch 69 is 800 MHz.  Some of the talk I've seen
>>> about enormous antennas in the "white space" is ludicrous.
>>>
>>> Give me ANY part of it and the radios to use it and I
>>> will.  Propagation would be superior to anything we're using now.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> At 07:46 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 What equipment are they using? Did they have to do the 30 meter antennas?

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Gino Villarini" 
 Reply-To: WISPA General List 
 Date:  Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12

Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

[ccrum]

It is not "ludacrous". Sure you can receive with a small yagi or panel 
or heck, even a set of rabbit ears. It's the uplink that will be the 
major issue. If you are using small cells for coverage you can probably 
get away with "smaller" antennas on the towers, but this will limit your 
uplink capability if you are wanting a desktop type CPE or even a small 
roof mount antenna. Small cell coverage like with uW freqs will have to 
be carefully planned due to the propagation characteristics and the 
potential for self interfernece on such a narrow band. It's not 
impossible, just more complicated.

Cameron

Mike wrote:
> At 704 MHz, a quarter wave is about 4 inches long.  The driven 
> element of a Yagi would be about 8 inches long.  They would be way 
> shorter than 30 meters, or what do you mean?  Think about the 900 MHz 
> antennas you see but just a little bigger for the upper UHF white space.
>
> Ch 52 is 698 MHz.  Ch 69 is 800 MHz.  Some of the talk I've seen 
> about enormous antennas in the "white space" is ludicrous.
>
> Give me ANY part of it and the radios to use it and I 
> will.  Propagation would be superior to anything we're using now.
>
> Mike
>
>
> At 07:46 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> What equipment are they using? Did they have to do the 30 meter antennas?
>>
>> Scottie
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Gino Villarini" 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:05:22 -0400
>>
>> 
>>> IIRC, 6 mhz channels were proponed on the FCC RO, you could bond them...
>>> so with current OFDM technologies you can get 10 - 12 Mbps on a 6 mhz
>>> channel.
>>>
>>> Not bad for a NLOS, self install and mobile probability
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>> 787.273.4143
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Scott Carullo
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!
>>>
>>>
>>> My question is how fast can their internet go using tv whitespace?
>>> Sprint
>>> used to serve this area with an unutilized tv channel and it was SLOW.
>>> I
>>> guess if you had nothing else but if it can't go one MB its not on my
>>> radar
>>> of concern.  Actually in our market if you cant deliver 10-20MB your not
>>>
>>> playing the game.
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>  Original Message 
>>>   
 From: "Jack Unger" 
 Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:49 AM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Holy cow!

 See the attached Case Study and Press Release.

 jack


 Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
 
> Dell, Microsoft Launching Broadband Net In Rural Virginia
> Computer Companies Join TDF Foundation, Spectrum Bridge To Debut
>   
>>> Network
>>>   
> Using 'White Spaces'
>
> John Eggerton -- Multichannel News, 10/21/2009 3:47:19 PM
>
>
> Computer companies Dell and Microsoft are scheduled to join with TDF
> Foundation and Spectrum Bridge Wednesday to launch a broadband
>   
>>> network
>>> in
>>>   
> rural Virginia, using the so-called white spaces between TV
>   
>>> channels.
>>>   
> House Communications Subcommitee Chairman Rick Boucher, who
>   
>>> represents
>>>   
> rural Virginia, is scheduled to be on hand as the companies host a
>   
>>> Webcast
>>>   
> with residents of an Appalachian community talking about how
>   
>>> wireless
>>>   
> Interent connectivity can change their lives.
>
> The government is currently working on a national broadband plan,
> including freeing up even more spectrum space for wireless Internet.
>
> Spectrum Bridge, a sort of Ebay for identifying available spectrum
>   
>>> in
>>>   
> secondary markets, launched a Web site in February to help identify
> available open TV channels. The site can be used by wireless
>   
>>> Internet
>>>   
> providers to figure out whether there is enough spectrum in a
>   
>>> potential
>>>   
> service area to make it economically viable.
>
>
>
>   
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>   
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>   
 --
 Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.C

Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency

[ccrum]

On the PAC solids, as I recall, there is a "bump" on the feed that can 
go into one of two "slots" in the center hole of the dish. When the bump 
is vertical, the polarity is vertical. When the bump is horizontal, 
polarity is horizontal.

Cameron

Butch Evans wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 10:00 -0500, Eje Gustafsson wrote: 
>   
>> I cannot on top of my head recall how to determine the installed polarity of
>> the feed but will go back to the warehouse to take a quick look to see how
>> the feed needs to be installed for vertical and horizontal since it's
>> impossible to tell by looking at the head of the feed on these dishes.  
>> 
>
> It seems to me that when installed as vertical, the 2 bolts will be
> vertical (where you bolt the feed to the dish).  Rotating it 90 degrees
> will make the bolts (and signal polarity) be horizontal .
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency

[ccrum]

I'll second that. I can't tell you how many pac dishes have either 
leaked water into the feed or have major problems with icing in the 
winter. I triple seal everything on my dishes and have had pac grids and 
solids somehow still get water into the center pin of the connector. I 
have no idea how it happens, but after about the 20th time, I just plain 
quit using them. I've never had this trouble on a Gabriel or Radiowaves 
dish and I apply the same sealing technique. Also, I've noticed in bench 
testing that that the Gabriel feeds have better SWR plots and provide 
MUCH better isolation between their dual pol feeds than the PAC.

Cameron

Brad Belton wrote:
> BTW Mark, if you determine they are PacWireless antennas I'd just punt them
> on EBay and replace them with RadioWaves or Gabriel 2' antennas.  In the
> long run you'll be a lot happier.  Just my opinion...
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:01 AM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency
>
> Ok, just checking.  Good cover...
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:56 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency
>
> The feedhorn specifically.  Maybe the length will help you too.  I know with
> higher gain the 5GHz grids are noticeably longer.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Brad Belton  wrote:
>
>   
>> Hmmm, pretty sure a 2' dish is a 2' dish regardless of frequency...or are
>> you speaking of the diameter of the feed?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:40 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency
>>
>> Can you measure diameter and compare it with the 2.4 and 5.8 GHz dishes?
>> Never thought about it but they would have to be different sizes.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Mark McElvy  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I happen to know they are either 5.8 or 2.4 as this was the only
>>> equipment I have found of theirs, they left it all when they went out of
>>> business.
>>>
>>> Mark McElvy
>>> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
>>> 573.729.9200 - Office
>>> 573.729.9203 - Fax
>>> 573.247.9980 - Mobile
>>> http://www.accubak.com/
>>> http://www.accubak.net/
>>> Nationwide Internet Access
>>> Accurate backups for your critical data!
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of ccrum
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 9:29 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency
>>>
>>> Got a spectrum analyzer and a frequency generator? Or a good network
>>> analyzer will do, but most people don't have one laying around. The
>>> feeds could literally be anything. You might be better off just calling
>>> the MFG of the dish and buying new feeds in the range you want unless
>>> you you have a few hours of extra time on your hands.
>>>
>>> Cameron
>>>
>>> Mark McElvy wrote:
>>>   
>>>> I have 4 two ft dishes that where pulled down when the previous wisp
>>>> went out of business. There are no markings on them and I need to
>>>> determine frequency and polarity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark McElvy
>>>> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
>>>>
>>>&g

Re: [WISPA] Identifying 2ft dish frequency

[ccrum]

Got a spectrum analyzer and a frequency generator? Or a good network 
analyzer will do, but most people don't have one laying around. The 
feeds could literally be anything. You might be better off just calling 
the MFG of the dish and buying new feeds in the range you want unless 
you you have a few hours of extra time on your hands.

Cameron

Mark McElvy wrote:
> I have 4 two ft dishes that where pulled down when the previous wisp
> went out of business. There are no markings on them and I need to
> determine frequency and polarity.
>
>  
>
> Mark McElvy
> AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] spectrum analysis - 5dBm interference at 5785

[ccrum]

You can pick up an older Tektroniks 492p off ebay for around $1000. A 
couple hundred for a new calibration and you've got a spectrum analyzer 
that works from 50kHz to 21 GHz...and they are military rated meaning 
they are tough as nails. Just make sure you've got a good winch to get 
it up the tower...they weigh about 50 lbs. I love mine.

Cameron

Mike wrote:
> I'll second that.
>
> I have used the various 2.4 G versions for a few years.  They now 
> have an sma connector for external antenna.  The only drawback is 
> they have to be plugged into a USB port.  Witht the right directional 
> antenna it may be possible to find the direction the offending signal 
> arrives from.  You might be better with a little lossy antenna 
> though.  If you have that strong a signal in the nearfield, the 
> signal will appear to be coming from everything metal.  I still 
> suspect something at the site, based only on the signal level you 
> reported.  When you do your audit, turn everything off -- read, turn 
> one thing on -- read, turn another thing on --read.
>
> Mike
>
> At 04:52 PM 10/12/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> http://store.wisp-router.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=Wi%2DSpyDBx&eq=&Tp=
>>
>> MetaGeek's Wi-SpyDBx can do what you need to. Covers both 2.4 and 
>> 5GHz (actually can even do 4.9GHz)
>>
>> Nifty tool with great software. Got a client server solution both 
>> for windows and Linux.
>>
>> /Eje
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Randy Cosby 
>> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:05:17
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] spectrum analysis - 5dBm interference at 5785
>>
>> Well, we replaced the backhaul (osbridge) and get the same readings on
>> the new one.  The old one does not get the same readings when moved to
>> another location, so it's picking up SOMETHING.  Powered down everything
>> else, same problem.  So, someone is slamming me with a ton of signal
>> near 5875... Now to find out where it's coming from.
>>
>> Any recommendations for a 5 gig spectrum analyzer?  Ubiquiti airview
>> looks interesting, but only for 2.4 and 900.  Guess I can use the
>> built-in one in the osbridge, but it's not too fast / granular.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> Randy Cosby wrote:
>> 
>>> Did that - don't have the results here with me, but there was quite a
>>> poor noise floor around the middle of the band - just like the osbridge
>>> reported.  Not nearly as severe though.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Just do a survey on the AP, really thats all that matters...  its easy
 takes a few minutes and you have the data you need to make educated
 decision.

 Scott Carullo
 Brevard Wireless
 321-205-1100 x102
  Original Message 


 
> From: "Randy Cosby" 
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 11:45 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] spectrum analysis - 5dBm interference at 5785
>
> Quite likely you're right.
>
> I tried shutting off the trango AP's with no luck - same bad spectrum
> analysis.  I'm next going to go on site and do linktests on the AP's
> with the backhaul off.
>
> My suspicion is the backhaul is bad - at least the spectrum analysis,
> but it is potentially the source of interference as well.
>
> Randy
>
>
> Lakeland wrote:
>
>
>   
>> Randy,
>>
>> You cant go by that spectrum analyzer.  Something is wrong. Most
>>
>>
>> 
 receivers


 
>> can't handle 5dbm pumped into them without killing them.
>>
>>  -B-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Randy Cosby writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>> Over the weekend we started getting complaints about a bad linktests
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 for


 
>>> all customers on an old trango AP site.  I've tried finding a cleaner
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 
>>> channel, but am not having much luck getting good linktests up there.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 
>>> This is one of the first sites I built, and use a couple OSBridge 5Gxi
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 
>>> radios to backhaul.   I found they added a spectrum analyzer to a
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 newer


 
>>> firmware version, so I installed it and ran a analysis of the site.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 It


 
>>> shows a 5dBm signal at 5785!  Not -5, but 5.   See attached.  It
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 appears


 
>>> that something VERY hot is either pointed at my AP site, or something
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 up


 
>>> there has started interfering.
>>>
>>> Spectrum analy

Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth

[ccrum]

You hit the nail on the head. Lower frequencies means bigger 
antennas...lots bigger. If you think the 900 sectors are large, just 
wait until you get to 700, or as someone said earlier, 100MHz. Ever seen 
a ham tower with a long wire stretched between the tower and a couple of 
trees? Now think about the uplink. What kind of antenna do you think 
will be needed at the customer premise? Indoor penetration is nice, but 
think about those old TV sets with rabbit earsand they were receive 
only. So what if you can propagate 20 miles...how do you get the signal 
back. Low frequency comes with it's own technical problems. We need a 
better data standard for starters (802.20 would have been far superior 
to WiMax IMHO), and some clean spectrum would be nice, but not 
necessarily low frequency.

Cameron

Patrick Leary wrote:
> 700 MHz is not the panacea some might think. Technically, it is a
> nightmare for bi-directional services. 
>
>
> Patrick Leary
> Aperto Networks
> 813.426.4230 mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 9:30 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
>
> Imagine WISPs using 700mhz to service their customers.  No stimulus
> package needed.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Bingo!
>>
>> Sent from my Motorola Startac...
>>
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, "Robert West" > micro.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I think the major barrier to wisp growth is lack of quality, NLOS 
>>> spectrum.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Marco Coelho
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 11:21 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Barriers to WISP growth
>>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> Not being one for gov money
>>>
>>> We have excellent credit.  We have that because we only expand at a 
>>> rate the will allow funding (new business) to cover our costs.  So 
>>> the cycle goes:
>>>
>>> 1.  Build out X number of Towers.
>>> 2.  Market X number of Areas.
>>> 3.  Install Customers to X*Y until well funded.
>>>
>>> Repeat.
>>>
>>> I think a lot of the companies that take stimulus money are going to
>>>   
>
>   
>>> go under in the long run.  They will go like the dot-coms.  Build 
>>> build Build Ah shit no revenue!
>>>
>>> That being said, we are vertical, all workers work for the company.
>>> That is the only way you can control quality.  Good employees are 
>>> very hard to find.  For every 100-200 applications/resumes, maybe 10
>>>   
>
>   
>>> are worth talking to seriously.  You're lucky to find 1 that is 
>>> worth hiring.
>>>
>>> Always a ray of sunshine!
>>>
>>> Marco Coelho
>>> Argon Technologies Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 7:25 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>>   
 Patrick,

 #1- Labor: There is very little skilled resources here.
 #2- Funding: Especially for labor. Normal financing channels are 
 available but I will not take on too much debt at one time.
 #3- Time: There is little extra time to dedicate towards expansion 
 versus daily operations.

 Notes-
 Employees: Too small to enjoy such a "luxury".
 Stimulus: I don't believe in it and did not apply.
 Technologies: Proprietary equipment are a bit too expensive unless 
 you buy CPE in 100 packs. Even then, the AP's are still expensive.

 -RickG

 On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Leary 
 
 
>>> wrote:
>>>   
> Regardless of your tech choice -- Moto, 802.11-based, WiMAX or 
> other, I am interested to know what are the greatest barriers to 
> growth and why?
>
> Some possibilities:
> Is it funding and if so, are your normal channels for money frozen
>   
>
>   
> or otherwise gone?
> Is it competition? If so, how specifically.
> Are you constrained from hiring due to high cost of employee 
> benefits (e.g. health insurance)?
> Are you stalled waiting for response from your stimulus
>   
> application?
>   
> Are you stalled trying to defend against someone else's stimulus 
> application that would include your market?
> Are the current technologies too expensive or technicall 
> inadequate to deliver what you need to compete?
>
> Patrick Leary
> Aperto Networks
> 813.426.4230 mobile
>
>
>
>   
>>> ---
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>>   
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wisp

Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

[ccrum]

But then everyone will call you god

I know it was a typo, but couldn't resist.

Cameron

e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> Correct. If the wavelength was different then it wouldn't be 900MHz. You can 
> break physics.  
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RickG 
>
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:42:17 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>
>
> Lol, and the answer is because horizontal usually has less noise.
> Whcih has nothing to do with the size of the wave cycle. Unless
> someone knows something I dont - which is always possible.
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Paul
> Rice wrote:
>   
>> heh, the question was why folks doing 900 preferred horizontal
>>
>> --
>> From: "RickG" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 9:41 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>
>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Paul
>>> Rice wrote:
>>>   
 Folks like horizontal for 900 MHz due to the size of the wave cycle
 approx
 13 inches long
 
>>> I knew that but couldnt figure out why you specified "horizontal". I
>>> guess you might have said  Folks like 900 MHz due to the size of the
>>> wave cycle approx 13 inches long.
>>>
>>> Thanks! -RickG
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Paul
>>> Rice wrote:
>>>   
 same size.  The electromagnetic wave is the same, polarity refers to the
 orientation of the wave. up and down or side to side.
 13 inches is the wavelength (length of a single cycle).

 --
 From: "RickG" 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:33 PM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

 
> The wave size of vertical would be different? -RickG
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Paul
> Rice wrote:
>   
>> Folks like horizontal for 900 MHz due to the size of the wave cycle
>> approx
>> 13 inches long
>>
>> --
>> From: "RickG" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 11:02 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>>
>> 
>>> But look at all the experience you are gaining :)
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Robert
>>> West
>>> wrote:
>>>   
 Why horizontal polarity?  Cause I'm a total idiot when it comes to
 900mhz
 and as my luck usually runs, if I go by the book nothing works until
 I
 do
 what I'm not supposed to do.  But, also as my luck runs, the opposite
 of
 what I try first will work  So it actually won't matter what I do
 including
 sitting the antennas 5 feet in front of each other, it will never
 work
 the
 first time out.  :)

 Bob-


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
 Behalf Of Tim Edwards
 Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:33 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question

 I'm with Chuck, much better performance with the Trango vs. Mikrotik
 in
 my experience.
 Why horizontal pol?  Vertical cuts through the foliage much bettter,
 at
 least with the NorCal
 foliage we have here.

 tim

 --
 =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Tim Edwards, Chief Engineer t...@telescience.net
 TeleScience Networks http://telescience.net
 11101 Hiway 1, #102415-663-8891
 Point Reyes Station, CA 94956-1375
 =-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



 Chuck Hogg wrote:
 
> I find that the Trango 900 can handle the noise and capacity much
> better
> than MikroTik/XR9.  I have a few hundred on Trango and it works
> better
> imo than XR9's.  Canopy's GPS synch is the only reason I would
> prefer
> their 900MHz option.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:49 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900Mhz question
>
> I'm actually about to test something similar in a few days.  We have
> a
> 2.5

Re: [WISPA] MUM passes

[ccrum]

I too have about 20 free passes if anyone needs them. Hit me offlist if 
you'd like one.

Cameron

Eje Gustafsson wrote:
> My apologies for this e-mail which might seem like a somewhat advertisement
> but I would hope it is more taken as a service offering.
>
>  
>
> If your planning on attending MUM and have not yet registered I do have some
> free passes for MUM left over. So if you could use a pass get with me or
> call us and ask for a pass (877-947-7787). If you already registered then
> sorry you cannot drop your registration and use a free pass to reregister. 
>
>  
>
>  / Eje Gustafsson
>
> CTO
>
> WISP-Router, Inc.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] GPS mapping software

[ccrum]

SNMP would work if you just wanted to collect information about the AP's
you are actually connected to. I don't think there is an OID for the
"scan" feature, but I could be wrong. Anyone know? That is why I thought
they might have some kind of tie in to the scan using the API.

Cameron

> SNMP output from MT?
>
> On 8/29/09, ccrum  wrote:
>> This is typically called "drive test" software and there are many
>> vendors of such...just not for wifi or similar technologies. Most of the
>> commercial stuff is for collecting data on cellular networks. That being
>> said, it shouldn't be too difficult to write a program to collect the
>> serial data (see NMEA under google) from a GPS and throw it into a text
>> file with the scan data from another program or device which you can get
>> external output from. I'm not sure if the MT API allows you to collect
>> scan data, but that's where I would start...anyone know?
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Cameron Kilton wrote:
>>> I'm very well aware that I will be doing this signal testing from the
>>> ground and I plan to due most if not all with 900mhz testing. I'm
>>> looking for a VERY rough mapping on real world testing. I've used other
>>> programs where you input radio data and it will estimate coverage,
>>> which
>>> is neat, but I want to be able to drive around using something like
>>> Delorm or Terrain Navigator and mark spots which I know where good
>>> signal with accurate GPS and input those into a Google Maps type
>>> system.
>>>
>>> So if such as system exists, please let me know what that system is...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Cam
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Brian Webster
>>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:32 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] GPS mapping software
>>>
>>> It might be cheaper just to pay someone to do RF propagation maps and
>>> post that information. I know someone who does that kind of work :-)
>>>
>>> Thank You,
>>> Brian Webster
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cameron Kilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have new site that I'm working on for deployment and want to be able
>>>> to give customers a realistic coverage map of their town after I
>>>>
>>> deploy
>>>
>>>> the site.
>>>>
>>>> The idea:
>>>>
>>>> Rig vehicle with several antennas and drive around the town with
>>>>
>>> Laptop
>>>
>>>> and GPS unit connected to it and mark areas with coverage.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts & Suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> -Cameron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>
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>&g

Re: [WISPA] GPS mapping software

[ccrum]

This is typically called "drive test" software and there are many 
vendors of such...just not for wifi or similar technologies. Most of the 
commercial stuff is for collecting data on cellular networks. That being 
said, it shouldn't be too difficult to write a program to collect the 
serial data (see NMEA under google) from a GPS and throw it into a text 
file with the scan data from another program or device which you can get 
external output from. I'm not sure if the MT API allows you to collect 
scan data, but that's where I would start...anyone know?

Cameron

Cameron Kilton wrote:
> I'm very well aware that I will be doing this signal testing from the
> ground and I plan to due most if not all with 900mhz testing. I'm
> looking for a VERY rough mapping on real world testing. I've used other
> programs where you input radio data and it will estimate coverage, which
> is neat, but I want to be able to drive around using something like
> Delorm or Terrain Navigator and mark spots which I know where good
> signal with accurate GPS and input those into a Google Maps type system.
>
> So if such as system exists, please let me know what that system is...
>
> Thanks,
> Cam
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brian Webster
> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:32 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] GPS mapping software
>
> It might be cheaper just to pay someone to do RF propagation maps and 
> post that information. I know someone who does that kind of work :-)
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
> Cameron Kilton wrote:
>   
>> I have new site that I'm working on for deployment and want to be able
>> to give customers a realistic coverage map of their town after I
>> 
> deploy
>   
>> the site.
>>
>> The idea:
>>
>> Rig vehicle with several antennas and drive around the town with
>> 
> Laptop
>   
>> and GPS unit connected to it and mark areas with coverage. 
>>
>> Thoughts & Suggestions?
>>
>> -Cameron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
> 
> 
>   
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
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>>
>>   
>> 
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Engenius EAP-3660

[ccrum]

Yep, but if you line the enclosure with foil tape or put it in a metal 
enclosure, the problem goes away. I deployed several hundred of these 
about 6 years ago and still have a lot in the field. As they would lose 
config, I took a roll of aluminum tape with me and lined the plastic 
boxes with the tape. I haven't lost a CB3 config in about 3 years.


Cameron

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> My experience with Engenius products in an outdoor environment with an 
> enclosure is that when lightning gets ANYWHERE around...it either hits it 
> totaling it out, or it wipes out the config. Both require a truck roll.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Josh Luthman 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:11:54 -0400
>
>   
>> If you aren't using them already I can only suggest one thing.
>>
>> Ruuun!
>>
>> My experience hasn't been very good (though I will admit not horrible) with
>> the Engenius data products.  They do not last long at all (weeks/months -
>> really lucky to get years) outdoors and the indoors do not seem to be
>> comparable in lifetime to a WAP11.
>>
>> Pretty good on coverage, but I wouldn't say anything much better/worse then
>> MT or WAP11.
>>
>> The thing that really broke the camel's back was the incompatibility between
>> the Intel 3945 and new one (that does N, 3946 maybe?) and the indoor ones.
>> The firmware fixed it, however, said firmware was not available then nor was
>> it the last I checked.  In fact I believe the product is EOL.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Doug Ratcliffe  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Has anyone used the Engenius EAP-3660 (600mW / 4dbi Smoke Detector style
>>> AP) in a hotel/motel environment?  Any word on coverage, etc?  Will they run
>>> open-mesh?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>   
>> 
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>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> ---
>> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>>
>>
>> 
>
> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Google Earth Census Tract

[ccrum]

I just tried it tiwh the Tiger2006 2nd edition and the program errors out
when creating the kml for the Tract 2000 feature. I went back and got the
original 2000 data (tracts are the same) and it worked fine. That data is
availble at http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/tigerua/ua_tgr2k.html.

Cameron

> Well, you can make them yourself by downloading the tiger data you need
> for your county/state and then using tgr2kml  from
> http://freegeographytools.com/2007/convert-tiger-polygons-to-kml-files.
> Tiger files can be downloaded from census bureau at
> http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/tiger2006se/tgr2006se.html. Of course
> you will need to know yoru sate and county fips codes available at
> http://www.census.gov/geo/www/fips/fips65/index.html. Have fun!
>
> Cameron
>
>> Is there a Google Earth Overlay with Census Tracts out there. Form 477
>> setup.
>>
>> Steve Barnes
>> Manager
>> PCS-WIN
>> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>>
>> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience
>> of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared,
>> ambition inspired, and success achieved.
>> - Helen Keller
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Google Earth Census Tract

[ccrum]

Well, you can make them yourself by downloading the tiger data you need
for your county/state and then using tgr2kml  from
http://freegeographytools.com/2007/convert-tiger-polygons-to-kml-files.
Tiger files can be downloaded from census bureau at
http://www.census.gov/geo/www/tiger/tiger2006se/tgr2006se.html. Of course
you will need to know yoru sate and county fips codes available at
http://www.census.gov/geo/www/fips/fips65/index.html. Have fun!

Cameron

> Is there a Google Earth Overlay with Census Tracts out there. Form 477
> setup.
>
> Steve Barnes
> Manager
> PCS-WIN
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
> Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience
> of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared,
> ambition inspired, and success achieved.
> - Helen Keller
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School

[ccrum]

You are right, but some simple router rules can prevent a lot of the ways
around it.

Cameron

> But easily defeated. New proxies are popping up all the time. Kids can
> even set up their own at home for their own use.
>
> On Aug 14, 2009, at 1:59 PM, ccrum wrote:
>
>> OpenDNS is approved for this...best thing is it is free.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Scott Carullo wrote:
>>> I need a web content filter for K-12 school.  Paid Subscription ok.
>>>
>>> Please let me know what good products there are for this
>>> requirement.  Need
>>> asap.  Thanks...
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Content Filter Suggestion for School

[ccrum]

OpenDNS is approved for this...best thing is it is free.

Cameron

Scott Carullo wrote:
> I need a web content filter for K-12 school.  Paid Subscription ok.
>
> Please let me know what good products there are for this requirement.  Need 
> asap.  Thanks...
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Redirect

[ccrum]

Slander only applies if it is untrue. Stating a fact, regardless of how 
embarrassing it is would not be slander. When your bank places a 
foreclosure notice on your house because you haven't paid your mortgage 
you don't get to sue. As was stated earlier, dish network certainly 
doesn't have a problem pasting notices on your TV's about paying your 
bill. The water company and power companies don't mind red tagging your 
meters. I don't think there is any problem with redirecting the service 
to a payment site. If the account is past due it is past due. I'd rather 
have whoever is using the system know that rather than having them think 
the service isn't working because of something we did.

Cameron

Jonathan Schmidt wrote:
> Yes, Mike, it isn't the same as sending a letter...even if the color of
> the envelope is indicative of some situation.  Nevertheless, the legal
> rules are very strict...nobody but the addressee can open it.
>
> When you put something on every screen on every PC using a subscriber's
> account and reveal any financial matter, especially an embarrassing one, a
> "hot head" may, when enraged, do all sorts of things...especially if the
> mistake isn't theirs (which is a small but possible event).
>
> If you can get the account holder to sign into a Web site with their
> assigned USERNAME and PASSWORD...that's OK and you can exchange
> confidential information.  If you can get them to call, that's OK ("...can
> I have your name and last 4 digits of your SS#?).
>
> Creating a "gated garden" which allows an immediate click-to-restore but
> states that a situation exists that requires the account holder to call a
> phone number is OK since it doesn't slander the account holder (maybe
> mistakenly), can verify the account holder, and, if the message screen is
> only on port 80 and doesn't stop the VoIP phone from accessing 911, etc.,
> there is no jeopardy.  And, that screen can come more and more
> frequently...maybe every 5 minutes until they call.  
>
> ...just a further thought.
>
> . . . j o n a t h a n
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:27 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Redirect
>
> You're correct with the liability thing...  it sucks that people sue over 
> such petty things.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Jonathan Schmidt" 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:38 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Redirect
>
>   
>> There is some potential liability in this.
>>
>> You don't know if friends are visiting and using the computer...or, the
>> subscriber has an Wi-Fi w/o WAP/WEP and others are (potentially
>> accidentally) using it.  In any case, you could be slandering the
>> subscriber by calling them deadbeats to other people.
>>
>> It seems more polite to hit them over and over or persistantly with a
>> demand that they contact a phone number to address a problem with their
>> subscription.  It also may stop a law suit...a typical response from a
>> real deadbeat.
>>
>> Cutting off the service is an option but it may enrage the person to
>> "never do business with that company again."  What you need to do is
>> 
> talk
>   
>> with them without slandering them.
>>
>> ...just a thought...
>>
>> . . . J o n a t h a n
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of sa...@michianawireless.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:03 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Redirect
>>
>> Well. We kinda do this now. When a customer get to far out. We manually
>> add a rule to the router at the tower site he is connected to that
>> redirects all his port 80 traffic to a webpage that says basically, "You
>> didn't pay you bill for a long time and you need to contact us and make
>> 
> a
>   
>> payment to before your web surfing will be available again." Email still
>> works, etc...
>>
>> We will still do that. But what I am trying to accomplish is to have my
>> billing system log into the client as soon as is hits 31+ in the billing
>> system and set a rule on the router board that will now occasionally
>> interrupt the clients web browsing by redirecting them to a page letting
>> them know they are now 31+ past due and offer them the chance to pay
>> 
> now.
>   
>> If they chose to not pay now, they can just continue with what they were
>> doing. This way they are always in the "know" that they are behind and
>> 
> are
>   
>> presented with a way to cure that immediately. Again since the client is
>> not way behind I just want the surfing to be redirect occasionally.
>>
>> Next step would be after this is gone on and they hit 40 days the next
>> script would be ran where it re

Re: [WISPA] 2.3GHz Hpol Sector?

[ccrum]

If you can't find one and REALLY have to have one, hit me offlist.

Cameron

Jayson Baker wrote:
> I know PacWireless has a 2.3GHz sector for Vpol, but we have an application
> where Hpol is required.
> Anyone aware of such a thing?
>
> Jayson
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Direct Lightning Strikes

[ccrum]

Since it sounds like this came in on the AC, how about a surge protector
on incoming AC line? We've had sites where the power company's grounding
is so bad we've lost power supply surge protectors in just about every
storm that comes through the area...until we put surge protection at the
breaker box. Now all is good.

Cameron

> Don't feel too left Chuck out we lost a tower site in the same storm.
> Second time in seven years a total loss. Both times we've lost our gear
> it has come via the electrical side. Our tower gets hit by a strike or
> two almost every storm and we never have issues. This time it literaly
> blew the entrance panel off the side of the building and outlets off the
> walls of the building. Cracked one of the APC batterty units, every
> ethernet surge suppressor and every grounded POE injectors were blown
> apart. Interesting that our four coax arrestors were okay, but the gear
> was cooked.  Most of the cat5 ends included.  Had spare gear on the
> tower plugged in at the radios but dangling in the building, we fired it
> up and were in operation within a few minutes.  Took another 16 hours to
> get all of the damage cleaned up.
>
> We have on that site forty-five 3/4" ground rods in two concentric
> circles around the tower and building none more than eight feet apart;
> all interconnected with #2 bare stranded wire and cad welded. Inside the
> building - a halo ring and 3 1/2" copper strapping, the list goes on and
> on for what we have done to minimize issues. We spent nearly 5K on
> grounding and still lost it all.
>
> We are moving to total battery power next week. I am looking for
> something I can use to isolate a smart charger from the power company
> when we see storms in the area, I expect we will have enough battery for
> a minimum 3 days runtime. Some type of relay that we can control
> remotely I would guess.
>
> If it makes you feel any better Verizon Wireless took total loses on
> four towers between Cincinnati and Louisville Tuesday as well.
>
> Dave Hulsebus
> Portative Technologies, LLC
>
> Chuck Hogg wrote:
>> Has anyone been able to withstand a direct lightning strike? We had a
>> tower get hit last night, and some of our equipment lost Ethernet ports
>> (RB/433AH), and we lost 3 canopy APs, but that is all (considering what
>> is all up there only 2/3rds was blown).  Our Trango AP survived and a
>> RB/433AH survived.  Even Nextel had their guys out there, but they just
>> had to reset alarms it appears as nothing was "fried" on their end.  I
>> wish I had to just reset alarms.
>>
>>
>>
>> So tell me, what do you do ? I'm tired of dumping a few grand during big
>> lightning storms.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do the basics, Ethernet surge suppression up top and on the bottom,
>> Polyphasers, ground out to the ground bars, ground out the cat5 cable,
>> and no omni's.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chuck Hogg
>>
>> Shelby Broadband
>> 502-722-9292
>> ch...@shelbybb.com
>>
>> http://www.shelbybb.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] Monitoring Radios on Network

[ccrum]

The Wisp Monitor at Wispmon.com. It will montior all devices on your 
network and give you status in real time on a map. You can see a demo on 
a live network at www.wispmon.com. It will handle any device capable of 
SNMP and is viewable from anywhere.

Cameron

Lakeland wrote:
> Hi Boys and Girls 
>
> If anyone has a solution they are using to monitor Proxim 5054 radios other 
> than Proxim Vision please let me know. 
>
> I am looking to monitor RSL, uptime, and anything else without choking the 
> crap out of my networks. 
>
> I know I had talked with someone from one of the lists before but lost that 
> info. 
>
> I am looking for a system that is doing this.  Not a system that "SHOULD" do 
> it.  Worked with enough of those already.  :-) 
>
> Tnx. 
>
> Offlist if you want. 
>
> Bob 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Bob Moldashel
> Lakeland Communications, Inc.
> 1350 Lincoln Avenue
> Holbrook, NY 11741
> 800-479-9195
> 631-286-8873 Fax
> 516-551-1131 Cell
>
>
> 
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>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] URGENT need contact for Mikrotik Parts nearsouthwestOhio

[ccrum]

We have tried several vendors over the years but found a few years ago
that "standardizing" to one vendor was the best course of action. For us
it was Mikrotik. Sure we still have a lot of Tranzeo gear in the field and
even a hundred or so CB3's that still go strong on customer's roofs, but
everything in the air is MT. It really doesn't matter what brand of gear
you go with, but standardization makes things really easy. I do carry a
few of each board that I use as spares, but I'd say I have less than a
couple thousand worth of backup gear. Regardless of the board actually
deployed, I can "get by" temporarily on just about anything in the lineup.
Also, virtual AP has saved my but a few times being able to add a VAP to
the other sectors on a tower to keep most of my customers up and running.
I'd say go with a brand that has a lot of versatility whtether it is MT,
Star OS, or whatever and stick with it. Having a hodge-podge of equipment
out there is asking for trouble.

Cameron

> Although, I think its a good suggestion and relevent thread to discuss
> "planning for emergency repair", I think some people forget that all WISPs
> are not at teh same level financially.
> And the best way to grow financially is to add clients as fast as
> possible.
> Buying hot spares for everything is not realistic for everyone, with all
> the
> various products out there that might have been used on a network.  And
> then
> what do you do when multiple radios fail in a short proximity of time from
> each other (like a day or two, before having time to reorder). Or what
> when
> multiple radios on a tower get trashed at once. Is it reality to afford 3
> hot spares of a specific type in case the complete tower gets hit with
> Lightning? I'd argue not.
>
> Lets just look at name brand PtMP APs, if a WISP tried various product
> manufacturers at multiple freuencies over the years...  I'd be close to
> $50K
> of capitol tied up with just APs. Thats like atleast quadrupal some WISP's
> operating capitol or cash flow. Or then consider OEM systems, where every
> MB
> is a different size, has a different number of slots, and cases are made
> for
> minimum fit.
>
> What we do instead is try to plan for alternate ways to solve the problem.
> For example
>
> An antenna change.  If you have two 60 deg sectors, a 120 sector antenna
> on
> hand can allow you to have one AP cover the load of teh other failing one,
> in an emergency with a quick antenna change. An antenna spare will work
> for
> ANY brand manufacturer.
>
> Or in 3 sector deployments add a fourth that is an Omni.  Then some of teh
> nearfield customers can use the Omni, and the Omni radio can be
> reconfigured
> to handle any of the sectors that fail.
> (Maybe not all clients from the sector, but atleast some of them with
> better
> link budgets).
>
> Or one Tlink45-ext  PTP in stock. A Tlink can run on any freq and any pol,
> and real good to substitute in for just about link that might fail
> creating
> an emergency.
>
> Or we always keep one generic OEM system, that has a large case (like the
> Ligowave  quad inclosures, forget brand name), that will fit ANY size SBC
> Mainboard.
> So what ever SBC we can get in a pinch locally, we'll have a way to mount
> it, if it doesn't fit in onsite case.
>
> I try and keep hot spares for my primary products, but thats not always
> good
> enough.
>
> Being able to rely on local vendors, quick response remote vendors, and
> other neighborly WISPs is key to address this problem.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Faisal Imtiaz" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 4:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT need contact for Mikrotik Parts
> nearsouthwestOhio
>
>
>> Josh,
>>
>> What Travis and others are suggesting is really a "Best Practice" issue.
>> Keeping Spares on-hand is commonly practiced in the industry (all of
>> Telecom)...
>>
>> Before one does any kind of deployment, one has to consider "How am I
>> going
>> to deal with Emergency Situations ?".
>>
>> There are a number of ways to 'skin this cat' !.
>>
>> You can always keep exact spares on hand. (We hardly every buy qty 1
>> of
>> anything... )
>> You can always keep 'equivalent' spares on hand... Would allow you to
>> swap
>> out stuff on a temp or permanent basis.
>>
>> The key point is to be aware of your 'in-service' equipment, and
>> 'spares'
>> inventory, and evaluate on a regular periodic basis.
>>
>> My only other addition would be .. Test you Spares.don't assume
>> that
>> because they are new, they are all working !!
>>
>> Good Luck.
>>
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> SnappyDSL.net
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 4:28 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] URGENT need contact for Mikrotik Parts near
>> sou

Re: [WISPA] Need a few CB3's.

[ccrum]

Did you find those? I've got a bunch if you still need them.

Regards,

Cameron

>
> I need a few EL-2611CB3 Plus. This is one of the grey ones that only do
> 802.11b. Please contact if you have some you want to get rid of or sell.
>
> - Matt
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] MT backup system, need script clues

[ccrum]

Agreed...that is why I use export. Then I can modify the script and strip
out macs, etc. Just my prefered method.

Cameron

> Scott Reed wrote:
>> RouterOS restore from backup (not export) works to the same model
>> hardware.
>
> I'll admit I haven't tried it recently, but it used to be really iffy -
> since a "new" system would have a different radio card, and different
> MACs on the Ethernet interfaces, it always was a horribly error-prone
> process in my experience.
>
> I'll have to grab a spare off the shelf and try this again later.
> Thanks! :)
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] MT backup system, need script clues

[ccrum]

I have a perl script which logs in, creates a backup, then FTP's in and
transfers the backup to an offsite location. It uses telnet now, but could
use ssh if you wanted. It actually cycles through a list of IP addresses
and does it for each one. It won't remove "all" the old files, but it just
rewrites the same one every few days. And it creates exports, not backups.
Of course this could all be modified, by altering/adding the MT script
commands within the script. Let me know if you are interested.

Cameron

> not too comfortable with ftp, clear text passwords, etc...
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Scott Reed
> wrote:
>
>> I believe it supports ssh terminal and ftp only.
>> There is an API available also.  I do not remember what all is available
>> in the API, but it can do a lot.
>> I take it your backup system does not do ftp?
>>
>> rabbtux rabbtux wrote:
>> > Nope, Didn't work.  Using MTv3.17 and found that even though it will
>> so
>> some
>> > sftp, it will not do rsync, or even FISH protocol that works with a
>> vanilla
>> > ssh server. sorry :-(
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Brad Belton  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> I would be interested in this as well.  Please share on-list!
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> >> Behalf Of rabbtux rabbtux
>> >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>> >> To: WISPA General List
>> >> Subject: [WISPA] MT backup system, need script clues
>> >>
>> >> All,
>> >>
>> >> I've used the excellent open source backup program, rsnapshot, for
>> years
>> >> with good results.  I recently noticed that routeros supports sftp.
>> I'd
>> >> like to get snapshot backups of all our APs.  Here's how it would
>> work:
>> >> Rsnapshot can run a few commands on each system before backing up the
>> file
>> >> system.  I'd like to 1) remove all *.backup and *.rsc files. 2) run a
>> fresh
>> >> binary backup, followed by a text export.  3) The normal rsnapshot
>> function
>> >> resumes getting a copy of the filesystem.
>> >>
>> >> Just having trouble putting the parts of the pre-run MT script.
>> >> Specifically how to delete the existing backup files.
>> >>
>> >> Any Hints appreciated, as everyone could use this 'full seatbelt"
>> backup
>> >> solution.  It includes daily changes to any file or configuration
>> changes
>> >> on
>> >> each routeros system.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Marshall
>> >> Rabbit Meadows Technology
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> 
>> >> 
>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>> >>
>> >>
>> 
>> >> 
>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >>
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > 
>> >
>> >
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > Version: 8.5.372 / Virus Database: 270.12.80/2187 - Release Date:
>> 06/19/09 06:53:00
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Scott Reed
>> Sr. Systems Engineer
>> GAB Midwest
>> 1-800-363-1544 x4000
>> Cell: 260-273-7239
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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