Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
1 person on each end with a small hand-held mirror. Flash the person on the other tower. When it's sunny out, you'd be surprised how far away you can see that. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.comwrote: Well in my area if its e-w about a turn, n-s 2 or 3. But what do I know, Tim's doing the turning, I'm calling the signal levels to him. I'm the tower bender! :-) *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman *Sent:* Wednesday, October 20, 2010 11:05 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment So it's 50 foot higher and 10 miles away...what angle is that? On Oct 20, 2010 1:38 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: Come on Josh, get a couple of land marks from Google Earth, that takes care of left and right, and Google Earth tells you altitude at the base of each plus your height, now it's just up or down from level, a few turns. Google is your friend! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
When the weather goes bad we don't do outside work. Some times of the year that gets to be a real issue. But what I've found is that if we install gear when we can't see we too often end up with something (trees etc.) in the way. The other thing I've done is lay a stick or something like that out 50ish yards from the tower in the direction that the antenna needs to go. Then when I get back to the site I can at least get things close on installation day. marlon - Original Message - From: Mark Nash To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:16 AM Subject: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
You can also tie a light colored rope on the tower and stretch it out on the line. Most of the time I just take a milk jug or some other light colored object and set it out as far as I can to use as the target. We use a Starrett angle finder to check the tilt. As mentioned in a previous post, you can get the tilt from Radio Mobile. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 11:37 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Jim that is an excellent point. Its how our climbers did it that we pay. They draw the direction to point on the ground with spray paint or something. Then when on the tower, looking down, its pretty easy to align the feed with the line on the ground. For up down, I've seen them use levels on the dish, and pre-calculate the downtilt. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Jim Patient mailto:sa...@jeffcosoho.com *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment We hillbilly them up all the time and most of the time don't need to go back to tower 1. Every once in a while we might have to go back and tweak the alignment a little. I use Delorme Topo USA and a GPS receiver on my laptop. Mark both locations and draw a line between the towers. Zoom in and start walking directly away from the tower in the direction of the link and keep the little arrow thingy on the line. I go out a few hundred feet, make sure I'm on the line and drop a direction target to shoot at. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Jim Patient sa...@jeffcosoho.com wrote: You can also tie a light colored rope on the tower and stretch it out on the line. Most of the time I just take a milk jug or some other light colored object and set it out as far as I can to use as the target. We use a Starrett angle finder to check the tilt. As mentioned in a previous post, you can get the tilt from Radio Mobile. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosohowww.wlan1.comwww.linktechs.netwww.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 11:37 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Jim that is an excellent point. Its how our climbers did it that we pay. They draw the direction to point on the ground with spray paint or something. Then when on the tower, looking down, its pretty easy to align the feed with the line on the ground. For up down, I've seen them use levels on the dish, and pre-calculate the downtilt. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Jim Patient sa...@jeffcosoho.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment We hillbilly them up all the time and most of the time don't need to go back to tower 1. Every once in a while we might have to go back and tweak the alignment a little. I use Delorme Topo USA and a GPS receiver on my laptop. Mark both locations and draw a line between the towers. Zoom in and start walking directly away from the tower in the direction of the link and keep the little arrow thingy on the line. I go out a few hundred feet, make sure I'm on the line and drop a direction target to shoot at. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosohowww.wlan1.comwww.linktechs.netwww.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Yeah... and that's one of the reasons I keep THAT friend around... ;) I stopped doing math in high school as soon as I could. There's just no time in the day with 4 music classes on the schedule... - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Come on Josh, get a couple of land marks from Google Earth, that takes care of left and right, and Google Earth tells you altitude at the base of each plus your height, now it's just up or down from level, a few turns. Google is your friend! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
So it's 50 foot higher and 10 miles away...what angle is that? On Oct 20, 2010 1:38 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: Come on Josh, get a couple of land marks from Google Earth, that takes care of left and right, and Google Earth tells you altitude at the base of each plus your height, now it's just up or down from level, a few turns. Google is your friend! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Don't forget to factor in the curvature of the earth ;) On 10/20/2010 1:05 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: So it's 50 foot higher and 10 miles away...what angle is that? On Oct 20, 2010 1:38 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com mailto:cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: Come on Josh, get a couple of land marks from Google Earth, that takes care of left and right, and Google Earth tells you altitude at the base of each plus your height, now it's just up or down from level, a few turns. Google is your friend! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the *DTISP MailScanner* http://www.dtisp.com/, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Green Bay Professional Packet Radio http://www.qsl.net/n9zia scroll down to Interactive Wireless / RF Design Utilities all you need is the GPS coordinates LOTS of other stuff there too - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment So it's 50 foot higher and 10 miles away...what angle is that? On Oct 20, 2010 1:38 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: Come on Josh, get a couple of land marks from Google Earth, that takes care of left and right, and Google Earth tells you altitude at the base of each plus your height, now it's just up or down from level, a few turns. Google is your friend! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Well in my area if its e-w about a turn, n-s 2 or 3. But what do I know, Tim's doing the turning, I'm calling the signal levels to him. I'm the tower bender! :-) From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 11:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment So it's 50 foot higher and 10 miles away...what angle is that? On Oct 20, 2010 1:38 PM, Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com wrote: Come on Josh, get a couple of land marks from Google Earth, that takes care of left and right, and Google Earth tells you altitude at the base of each plus your height, now it's just up or down from level, a few turns. Google is your friend! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just filled a printer page with trig figuring out hoe I'm going to place my projector. There are more uses then people think. On Oct 20, 2010 12:55 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: YES LOL ;) Only once did I know of a a practical use for trig. A friend of mine was trying to make a cut pattern in sheet metal to make a cone. The cone had to fit a certain size at the top and a certain size at the bottom. The cone was a pivotal part of his home brewing system. He is the kind of guy who can buy this stuff pre-made but preferred to do it himself. I don't have that kind of time on my hands, I just buy the stuff. Though he is a bit prouder of HIS homebrew system than I am, and that's the difference. Nobody else who opens my fridge knows, though. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Am I the only one that uses Trigonometry for vertical alignment? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 permail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
What we just did this month for SAF Lumina: Site 1, install it all Site 2, install it all, align Site 1, align We did cheat (compared it to a 5Ghz dish that we are upgrading). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Yeah that's what we do now. I'd like to save the 2nd trip to the first site. ;) - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:21 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment What we just did this month for SAF Lumina: Site 1, install it all Site 2, install it all, align Site 1, align We did cheat (compared it to a 5Ghz dish that we are upgrading). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
You also need to make sure that the software is taking into account magnetic declination, or that you know what your declination is if it is giving azimuth from true north. If you don't know what declination is, look it up. Otherwise you'll be several degrees off. Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
1) Put the side up that's in town first and guestimate to the best of your ability (if new frequency), align to another radio on tower if already have similar freq. 2) Install remote and align to first radio 3) Back in town do final alignment of first radio. Famous phone conversation with office: Left left left, ok back right --- there lock it down, now vertical up, up, up, ok down, down, up, perfect lock it in. Then don't bump it while tightening or you'll get back to the office and check it again and go DOH! Forbes On 10/19/2010 8:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
(sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Also note, because regular compass works on magnatism, it will not always function accurately on top of tall buildings, because of all the other forces up there that screw with it. So usually, we print a map, draw a line, and look for landmarks, and calculate the degree to a specific landmark, therefore we can align / verify our compass to that landmark. GPS compass will work more accurately. We do almost all our 5.X dish alignments with a single tech, one side at a time, and we find it quicker (man hours) to do it that way, even when a second trip is needed to the first site.. If aligning millimeterwave 24Ghz and above, well its like near impossible to do quickly without two people. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Greg Ihnen To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Whoa declination is very important. Wikipedia has a link to a NOAA calculator where you put in your ZIP code (or GPS coordinates), date, tell it to compute your declination. Then you have to know how to calculate it. Here's the link: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp You WILL be several degress off if you don't adjust for it on your compass. - Original Message - From: Cameron Crum To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You also need to make sure that the software is taking into account magnetic declination, or that you know what your declination is if it is giving azimuth from true north. If you don't know what declination is, look it up. Otherwise you'll be several degrees off. Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I wonder how accurate(ish) a GPS compass app would be on the iphone/blackberry/android. Plug in the GPS coordinates of the other side and may get the link pretty close??? At least close enough to know that you're pointing it in the right direction (picture fog all around you on the tower...staring out into nothing but fog...don't know which way is which due to winding roads to the tower). If you're close enough, you will get a link when you put the other end of the link up, and you can at LEAST peak the 2nd dish, then go back to the first. If you're way off, they won't link, and you end up spinning your wheels. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
we sent someone out in the field with a mirror and looked for the reflections On 10/19/2010 11:28 AM, Mark Nash wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I just did a ptp install of 5g 2ft rocket dishs at 6.47 miles and could not see either tower. Now I already had a ptp link to another tower from tower 1 so this helped. I used Google Earth to map out the points and then used the ruler to connect each ptp link. I took the map with me on tower 1 and mounted and aligned the dish. I just eyeballed the direction of the dish in relation to the existing dish using the Google map. I got everything powered up and then went to tower 2. At tower 2 I had a landmark that I thought was close to the right direction. Mounted dish and pointed at landmark and had a signal. I then aligned dish while guy on ground gave signal reports. I have not gone back up on tower 1 yet to tweak dish. I actually have a 67 signal when lingowave said it should be 57 so I do need to align dish on tower 1. I did not want to believe Google maps at first but when I actually got up on tower I could tell it was about right. I have tried using a compass but on a tower the compass will not work correctly. Guess the metal structure throws the magnetic field off. On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the *DTISP MailScanner* http://www.dtisp.com/, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I run up a 3 foot helium balloon and use a pair of binoculars. Works every time. NGL From: Data Technology Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just did a ptp install of 5g 2ft rocket dishs at 6.47 miles and could not see either tower. Now I already had a ptp link to another tower from tower 1 so this helped. I used Google Earth to map out the points and then used the ruler to connect each ptp link. I took the map with me on tower 1 and mounted and aligned the dish. I just eyeballed the direction of the dish in relation to the existing dish using the Google map. I got everything powered up and then went to tower 2. At tower 2 I had a landmark that I thought was close to the right direction. Mounted dish and pointed at landmark and had a signal. I then aligned dish while guy on ground gave signal reports. I have not gone back up on tower 1 yet to tweak dish. I actually have a 67 signal when lingowave said it should be 57 so I do need to align dish on tower 1. I did not want to believe Google maps at first but when I actually got up on tower I could tell it was about right. I have tried using a compass but on a tower the compass will not work correctly. Guess the metal structure throws the magnetic field off. On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the DTISP MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
How about a bunch of little balloons with promotional advertising on the balloons? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 11:42 AM, ~NGL~ wrote: I run up a 3 foot helium balloon and use a pair of binoculars. Works every time. NGL From: Data Technology Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just did a ptp install of 5g 2ft rocket dishs at 6.47 miles and could not see either tower. Now I already had a ptp link to another tower from tower 1 so this helped. I used Google Earth to map out the points and then used the ruler to connect each ptp link. I took the map with me on tower 1 and mounted and aligned the dish. I just eyeballed the direction of the dish in relation to the existing dish using the Google map. I got everything powered up and then went to tower 2. At tower 2 I had a landmark that I thought was close to the right direction. Mounted dish and pointed at landmark and had a signal. I then aligned dish while guy on ground gave signal reports. I have not gone back up on tower 1 yet to tweak dish. I actually have a 67 signal when lingowave said it should be 57 so I do need to align dish on tower 1. I did not want to believe Google maps at first but when I actually got up on tower I could tell it was about right. I have tried using a compass but on a tower the compass will not work correctly. Guess the metal structure throws the magnetic field off. On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the DTISP MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.comwrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Cool Idea. On 10/19/2010 11:12 AM, ~NGL~ wrote: I run up a 3 foot helium balloon and use a pair of binoculars. Works every time. NGL *From:* Data Technology mailto:w...@dtisp.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:06 AM *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just did a ptp install of 5g 2ft rocket dishs at 6.47 miles and could not see either tower. Now I already had a ptp link to another tower from tower 1 so this helped. I used Google Earth to map out the points and then used the ruler to connect each ptp link. I took the map with me on tower 1 and mounted and aligned the dish. I just eyeballed the direction of the dish in relation to the existing dish using the Google map. I got everything powered up and then went to tower 2. At tower 2 I had a landmark that I thought was close to the right direction. Mounted dish and pointed at landmark and had a signal. I then aligned dish while guy on ground gave signal reports. I have not gone back up on tower 1 yet to tweak dish. I actually have a 67 signal when lingowave said it should be 57 so I do need to align dish on tower 1. I did not want to believe Google maps at first but when I actually got up on tower I could tell it was about right. I have tried using a compass but on a tower the compass will not work correctly. Guess the metal structure throws the magnetic field off. On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the *DTISP MailScanner* http://www.dtisp.com/, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the *DTISP MailScanner* http://www.dtisp.com/, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
The phone app will also run LOS profiles between your location and a chosen tower...FYI. On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@wispmon.com wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.comwrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Where is this app? :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net mailto:markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Mike, replying offlist... On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Where is this app? :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.comwrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Yah.thought I was gonna see this a few days ago.grin Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Mike, replying offlist... On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Where is this app? :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
The iphone has an app called wifi align, and we have been using it with pretty good results...can overlay your tower location via GPS onto your camera view. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Yah…thought I was gonna see this a few days ago…grin Brad *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:37 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Mike, replying offlist... On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Where is this app? :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Or SICE AirGhz. It's a free iPhone app that uses the internal compass to point you at the site, which you can add with lat/long. It also has the uptilt measurement built in, so you can hold the phone up against the back of the antenna, and it'll help you get the correct tilt. Pretty cool, but really only works on the iPhone 4 -- the predecessor's compass wasn't accurate enough. Kevin - Original Message - From: Chuck Hogg To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment The iphone has an app called wifi align, and we have been using it with pretty good results...can overlay your tower location via GPS onto your camera view. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Yah…thought I was gonna see this a few days ago…grin Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Mike, replying offlist... On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Where is this app? :-p -Mike HammettIntelligent Computing Solutionshttp://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
That's neat too, just downloaded it... Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Kevin Sullivan kevin.sulli...@alyrica.netwrote: Or SICE AirGhz. It's a free iPhone app that uses the internal compass to point you at the site, which you can add with lat/long. It also has the uptilt measurement built in, so you can hold the phone up against the back of the antenna, and it'll help you get the correct tilt. Pretty cool, but really only works on the iPhone 4 -- the predecessor's compass wasn't accurate enough. Kevin - Original Message - *From:* Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:43 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment The iphone has an app called wifi align, and we have been using it with pretty good results...can overlay your tower location via GPS onto your camera view. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Yah…thought I was gonna see this a few days ago…grin Brad *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Cameron Crum *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:37 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Mike, replying offlist... On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Where is this app? :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - *From:* Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com *To:* WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
We have been using it a month or two, pretty slick app! you look at your camera and move around and your towers float in on the I Phone's screen, like right over the third tree in the orchard, etc. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-Access, Inc. www.cv-access.com / cprofito'at'cv-access.com Providing Broadband Internet Access to California's Rural Central Valley From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Hogg Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment The iphone has an app called wifi align, and we have been using it with pretty good results...can overlay your tower location via GPS onto your camera view. Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:41 PM, Brad Belton b...@belwave.com wrote: Yah.thought I was gonna see this a few days ago.grin Brad From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Crum Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:37 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Mike, replying offlist... On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Where is this app? :-p - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 10/19/2010 11:20 AM, Cameron Crum wrote: WispMon Pro has a phone app that will tell you distance and bearing to any of the towers in your database from your current location and plot it for you on a map. We are toying with making the app available for a small price to the general public, but it will need some mods so you can enter your tower locations manually and store them in a local file/db on the phone. Hit me offlist if you are interested and we'll try to get it out quicker if there is a big show of hands. Regards, Cameron On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA mailto:wireless@wispa.org General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA mailto:wireless@wispa.org General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I temporarily install a sector in place of the dish on one side and use it as a guide to get me the best signal from the other side. Then go back and remove the sector and install the second dish. I can usually get it dead on pretty quickly. Bob- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Align the best you can on the first tower, come down, move the second tower until it's perfect! J From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
What about the lawn chair and b-b gun? Safety equipment is always important. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of ~NGL~ Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:13 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I run up a 3 foot helium balloon and use a pair of binoculars. Works every time. NGL From: Data Technology mailto:w...@dtisp.com Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:06 AM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just did a ptp install of 5g 2ft rocket dishs at 6.47 miles and could not see either tower. Now I already had a ptp link to another tower from tower 1 so this helped. I used Google Earth to map out the points and then used the ruler to connect each ptp link. I took the map with me on tower 1 and mounted and aligned the dish. I just eyeballed the direction of the dish in relation to the existing dish using the Google map. I got everything powered up and then went to tower 2. At tower 2 I had a landmark that I thought was close to the right direction. Mounted dish and pointed at landmark and had a signal. I then aligned dish while guy on ground gave signal reports. I have not gone back up on tower 1 yet to tweak dish. I actually have a 67 signal when lingowave said it should be 57 so I do need to align dish on tower 1. I did not want to believe Google maps at first but when I actually got up on tower I could tell it was about right. I have tried using a compass but on a tower the compass will not work correctly. Guess the metal structure throws the magnetic field off. On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the http://www.dtisp.com/ DTISP MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
On a couple of towers we put strobes on them and put them on the remote reboot unit. Fire em up from our smart phones when we can't find the tower for installs and such. On 10/19/2010 11:54 AM, Robert West wrote: What about the lawn chair and b-b gun? Safety equipment is always important. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *~NGL~ *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:13 PM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I run up a 3 foot helium balloon and use a pair of binoculars. Works every time. NGL *From:* Data Technology mailto:w...@dtisp.com *Sent:* Tuesday, October 19, 2010 9:06 AM *To:* WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I just did a ptp install of 5g 2ft rocket dishs at 6.47 miles and could not see either tower. Now I already had a ptp link to another tower from tower 1 so this helped. I used Google Earth to map out the points and then used the ruler to connect each ptp link. I took the map with me on tower 1 and mounted and aligned the dish. I just eyeballed the direction of the dish in relation to the existing dish using the Google map. I got everything powered up and then went to tower 2. At tower 2 I had a landmark that I thought was close to the right direction. Mounted dish and pointed at landmark and had a signal. I then aligned dish while guy on ground gave signal reports. I have not gone back up on tower 1 yet to tweak dish. I actually have a 67 signal when lingowave said it should be 57 so I do need to align dish on tower 1. I did not want to believe Google maps at first but when I actually got up on tower I could tell it was about right. I have tried using a compass but on a tower the compass will not work correctly. Guess the metal structure throws the magnetic field off. On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the *DTISP MailScanner* http://www.dtisp.com/, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
We hillbilly them up all the time and most of the time don't need to go back to tower 1. Every once in a while we might have to go back and tweak the alignment a little. I use Delorme Topo USA and a GPS receiver on my laptop. Mark both locations and draw a line between the towers. Zoom in and start walking directly away from the tower in the direction of the link and keep the little arrow thingy on the line. I go out a few hundred feet, make sure I'm on the line and drop a direction target to shoot at. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Wow what an awesome range of responses. What a value to WISPA, eh? Thanks everyone! We've definitely improved our practices today... Mark - Original Message - From: Jim Patient To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment We hillbilly them up all the time and most of the time don't need to go back to tower 1. Every once in a while we might have to go back and tweak the alignment a little. I use Delorme Topo USA and a GPS receiver on my laptop. Mark both locations and draw a line between the towers. Zoom in and start walking directly away from the tower in the direction of the link and keep the little arrow thingy on the line. I go out a few hundred feet, make sure I'm on the line and drop a direction target to shoot at. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
I've finder this for installs, but I use a tree line or if I'm lucky a square building, land plot, silo, etc. On Oct 19, 2010 6:03 PM, Jim Patient sa...@jeffcosoho.com wrote: We hillbilly them up all the time and most of the time don't need to go back to tower 1. Every once in a while we might have to go back and tweak the alignment a little. I use Delorme Topo USA and a GPS receiver on my laptop. Mark both locations and draw a line between the towers. Zoom in and start walking directly away from the tower in the direction of the link and keep the little arrow thingy on the line. I go out a few hundred feet, make sure I'm on the line and drop a direction target to shoot at. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
YEAH, I'm spoiled, since most of my towers are actually 20 story buildings, where I can stand, and easilly move feeds, without dropping screws 300ft below :-) Or atleast one side of a link on a easy accessible roof top. I agree its a different deal with true towers on each side. ITs never worth having to make a second climb unnecessarilly, and also not a good idea having climbers sitting up on a tower waiting for a long time for hte other side to finish. So, yeah, better time management and planning duing the install is needed, prior to the climbers climbing. If we have to climb the first side a second time we try to combine it with other work. For example, if tower 1 is a two day job Day1- install dish on tower1, install dish on tower 2. Day2 - install remaining sectors on tower1, re-align dish on tower1 Its rare that we install two tower with lots of stuff. We usually extend from one tower to a second tower that we are building out. So most of work is only at one of the towers. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment I've never put a dish up half together. I've always seen it done putting everything together then hoisting it up. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: Actually not true in many cases. If the distance is really long beyond site, such as 20-30miles, I'd agree. But if say LOS within 10 miles or so on a clear day, its pretty easy. After our tech eye balls the alignment, I'll usually have the tech do a fine align just in case we can improve it. BUt 9 out of 10 times, it was not necessary and maybe we'll gain a half DB. The secret to aligning dishes is to look through the feed hole before the feed is screwed in. (for example PAC wireless parabolic dish). You then home in on the far side area aiming for, positionioned in cetner of hole, and make sure the Ring around the hole appears equal size all around to verify it is aligned. Because the hole has metal around it that has DEPTH, maybe 1/4-1/2 inch, you can see the depth of this inside surface all around the hole. As matter of fact, if we dont get our link budget acheieve and we need to trouble shoot why, we check cables first, because the odds of having a bad cable is higher than the tech getting the first alignment attempt wrong. Panels are harder to align, because looking from the side. Sure it can be harder to align a big dish with radome that does not have a removable feed. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment That's not realistically possible. You would have to be extraordinarily lucky to align that first dish without having any measurements. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: (sent a message a few minutes ago but through strange indicators I think it may not have sent out...sorry if it's a double-post) I'm trying to have 1 crew and not do the 2nd trip to the first tower. - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 8:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment You would need more people then. You can't align the dish without both radios being powered. You could do two 3 man crews, one at each site. Both install at the same time and they should finish around the same time frame. Align before coming down at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Greg Ihnen os10ru...@gmail.com wrote: It looks like for around $150 you could get binoculars with a built in magnetic compass that you see through the binoculars. Could you use the binoculars to find an object on the horizon on the right azimuth and then point the dish there? Greg On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first
Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment
Jim that is an excellent point. Its how our climbers did it that we pay. They draw the direction to point on the ground with spray paint or something. Then when on the tower, looking down, its pretty easy to align the feed with the line on the ground. For up down, I've seen them use levels on the dish, and pre-calculate the downtilt. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jim Patient To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] PtP Dish Alignment We hillbilly them up all the time and most of the time don't need to go back to tower 1. Every once in a while we might have to go back and tweak the alignment a little. I use Delorme Topo USA and a GPS receiver on my laptop. Mark both locations and draw a line between the towers. Zoom in and start walking directly away from the tower in the direction of the link and keep the little arrow thingy on the line. I go out a few hundred feet, make sure I'm on the line and drop a direction target to shoot at. Jim Patient Cell: 314-565-6863 Desk: 636-692-4200 YIM: jeffcosoho www.wlan1.com www.linktechs.net www.wifimidwest.com On 10/19/2010 10:16 AM, Mark Nash wrote: Question: What tools do you use to blindly put up the first end of a ptp without having a visual on the other side? Details: When deploying ptp dishes... One team doing both ends at different times. The first dish must be aligned without a connecting radio at the other end. We know how to get uptilt/downtilt/azimuth from Radio Mobile. Uptilt/downtilt is easy to do with a simple gauge. Azimuth is a different story. If you can see the site that you're aiming for, no big deal, but what if you can't? We have a number of backhaul upgrades to do in the next few months, and we have alot of fog here in the mornings this time of year. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
