I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either
technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is WDS
pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly bridges the
network? Could do a boat-load of PtP links, but that'd be silly
I've done plenty of WDS AP's in hotels. Quick and easy.
Bob-
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 5:01 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
I wou
Mesh?
On 11/22/09, Mike Hammett wrote:
> I would prefer copper to link indoor APs. If that won't work due to either
> technical issues or the customer just plain doesn't want holes drilled, is
> WDS pretty much the only financially viable alternative that properly
> bridges the network? Could do
Mesh with 2.4GHz APs for clients and 5.8GHz WDS backhaul give much better
throughput.
http://www.wiligear.com/?q=products/mesh/mesh-mini
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Robert West wrote:
> I've done plenty of WDS AP's in hotels. Quick and easy.
>
> Bob-
>
> -Original Message-
> F
I have been learning a little about mikrotiks WMME. might look at that
as a possible solution.
FWIW I have yet to find a building that did not have POTS that could
be used for VDSL gear. The only time it won't work is if all of the
pairs are getting used in a PBX environment.
Sent from my i
Depends on your definition of economical :-)
Ruckus has meshing built in to all of their AP's... plus with the antenna
array built into these babies you can usually get by with deploying 1/2 as
many AP's... so it can end up costing less than a roll your own Mikrotik
system
Daniel White
3-dB Netwo
Does Ruckus state their antenna gain anywhere? If their "beam forming" gain
isn't all that much higher than the competition's omni gain then the
performance couldn't be all that much better unless there's noise or multi path
issues.
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:13 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> De
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/beamforming-wifi-ruckus,2390.html
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From:
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:26 PM
To: "WISPA General List"
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor
Hey All,
I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some
Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 & Bullet2HP.
One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when
switching from 20MHz to 10MHz/5MHz. Our tests were Raw Bandwidth
Tests(AirOS), Video (VLC UDP Stream), Voice
There are over 4,000 antenna patterns, with the relative gain of the best
ones up to 10dBi... the magic is though that the AP also uses the patterns
they transmit on to receive on... so the gain is bi-directional instead of
blasting the signal out but not having any mechanism in place for the clien
Are you running the latest firmare on the units? I think they just
released a new firmware in the last couple of days that fixes many problems.
Travis
Microserv
Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some
> Ubituiti gear; Nanostati
I actually forgot about Ruckus. Their SME devices are too expensive, but
the 7111 might not be bad.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From: "3-dB Networks"
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 4:13 PM
To: "
Yeah, I saw that, many times. Are there any other reviews? I suspect the good
performance over and above a regular high quality AP is that it's dual band
mesh. The Ruckus gear is dual band mesh right? I get a lot of hits when I
Google "ruckus dual band mesh mediaflex" but the Ruckus site isn't t
Running WDS bridged?
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> Hey All,
>
> I did some field tests (for overseas volunteer project) with some
> Ubituiti gear; Nanostation2 & Bullet2HP.
>
> One thing that was surprising was the performance degradation when
> switching from
Seems hard to believe that if I took a 10dbi antenna which isn't all that much
gain and put it on my AP and pointed it at my client I'd see that much of a
gain.
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:43 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> There are over 4,000 antenna patterns, with the relative gain of the best
>
@Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units
@os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobile was Station modes
os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> Running WDS bridged?
>
> Greg
> On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
>
>
>> Hey All,
>>
>> I did some field tes
Just for kicks I'd try WDS bridged. Do you have control from where you're at
now? Is the equipment still set up?
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> @Travis Johnson - Yes Upgraded to newest firmware for the two units
>
> @os10rules - Nope, Fixed was simple AP and Mobi
Its not in the field, but it is sitting here in my bedroom looking cool :).
I was thinking that using the 10/5MHz bandwidth required one to setup
something else. I'm not that familiar with the use of half/quarter rate
channels and how that affects the frame transport/packet size etc,.
I wonder
Well next time definitely bring more food! Beef jerky and granola bars.
In my testing the narrower channels just made things slower. I was testing in a
pristine area where there was no other 5.8GHz going on. From what I hear if the
environment had been polluted performance might have actually go
No, because it does beamforming. I believe Dan said it can use 4000
different antenna patterns.
What's better performing, an omni with a 30 dB radio or say an array of 6
sectors? What about 4000 sectors?
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
I'm not sure they've figured out their voice issues.
Regards,
Jeff
Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l)
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jree...@18-30chat.net
Sent:
Depends on what your comparing it to.
If you compare it to Cisco, Aruba, Meraki, Symbol, etc. it almost always
comes out cheaper.
It's not Mikrotik cheap, or Linksys off the shelf cheap... but you get what
you pay for
Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com
-Original Messag
Only the 7962 and 7761 are dual-band mesh... the rest is straight 2.4GHz.
Mediaflex is their in-home equipment for streaming HD video... only wi-fi
manufacturer on the planet that can do that well :-)
Metroflex is their muni wi-fi client device line
Zoneflex is the product line that most people
Does a sector work any better when there's no interference or when there's just
a few clients? In a highly urban area like an apartment building that's flooded
with microwave ovens, cordless phones etc sure. But what about a house in
suburbia where there's no real interference?
I guess that Ruc
First, you should have a better signal than -70 at <5Miles away with a
24dB/NS2 antenna and a B2HP/9dB omni. I get 65 or better with a 19dB
panel.
Don't forget, 10MHz channel is 1/2 available bandwidth and 5MHz is 1/4
available bandwidth. Really, you will get about 7-10MBit aggregate
(depending
Your average Wi-Fi AP comes with a 3dBi antenna or even a unity gain
antenna... every 3-dB increase is double the power...
The trick though isn't that its pointing a 10dBi antenna pattern at a
client, its that its taking it one step further and pointing that at the
best possible path to the client
Your right, the technology is alluring. Maybe someday
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:07 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> Only the 7962 and 7761 are dual-band mesh... the rest is straight 2.4GHz.
>
> Mediaflex is their in-home equipment for streaming HD video... only wi-fi
> manufacturer on the plane
As APs I'm running Bullets with gain antennas, PS2's and NS2's so I've got the
gain and great signals. I'm in a place where there's no interference of any
kind. I'm already in the "sweet spot" as far as signal strength goes and
clients are connecting at 54Mbps. What more is there to gain?
Greg
The gear isn't designed to be deployed in a house in suburbia (well with the
exception of media flex)... it competes in the enterprise market with Cisco,
Aruba, Meraki, Aerohive, Symbol, etc. etc. etc. Its designed to be deployed
in schools, in hospitals, in hotels, in the SMB... where there is no
Greg... your looking at this from an outdoors service provider aspect. The
gear isn't designed for that. Its for indoor deployments (although there
are people using it to do outdoor service).
Put a bullet with a 10dBi antenna and a Ruckus AP next to each other
indoors... test from a few location
OK, you've piqued my interest. I'll try it someday and take your word for it
for now.
Greg
On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:21 PM, 3-dB Networks wrote:
> Greg... your looking at this from an outdoors service provider aspect. The
> gear isn't designed for that. Its for indoor deployments (although there
I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from 54mbit
to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels).
I also can't see why you're voice would be having problems in half or
quarter channels unless there is a software bug. It should only improve
unless you're using all
Are you talking indoor or outdoor?
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--
From:
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 7:15 PM
To: "WISPA General List"
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Indoor deployment question
> As APs I'm
AP's mostly outdoors, clients indoors.
On Nov 22, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Are you talking indoor or outdoor?
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From:
> Sent: Sunday
Josh:
I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz
sector. Winbox shows this:
Emacs!
Mike
At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote:
I believe when you half the channels the rates also get halved - from 54mbit
to 27mbit max (that is from 20mhz to 10mhz channels).
I also can't se
we have some vivato panels and go networks aps out there. to see
beamforming in action is pretty cool.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 22, 2009, at 5:19 PM, "3-dB Networks" wrote:
> The gear isn't designed to be deployed in a house in suburbia (well
> with the
> exception of media flex)... it c
It is very weird isn't it?
Vi is better the Emacs.
On 11/22/09, Mike wrote:
> Josh:
>
> I thought that too. I have a handful of customers on a 5 MHz
> sector. Winbox shows this:
>
> Emacs!
>
>
> Mike
>
> At 07:32 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote:
>>I believe when you half the channels the rates also g
I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant
simulate right now is distance.
As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting that made it work better,
I might have to play with the Mobile NS2's settings for it to play nicely.
OT: What is CCQ?
-Israel
Josh Luthman wrote:
IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interference than 20MHz.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS <
ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant
> simulate right now is distance.
>
> As long as it wasnt some
>From http://www.ubnt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=53556: Client Connection
>Quality
On Nov 22, 2009, at 9:38 PM, Israel Lopez-LISTS wrote:
> I'm gonna have to set up the environment again. Only thing I cant
> simulate right now is distance.
>
> As long as it wasnt some voodoo config setting t
LOL, I guess my little image didn't get embedded. Some connections
are 12, some 48, and the closest 54.
Mike
At 08:13 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote:
>It is very weird isn't it?
>
>Vi is better the Emacs.
>
>On 11/22/09, Mike wrote:
> > Josh:
> >
> > I thought that too. I have a handful of custome
Am I reading it correctly that your AP is transmitting at 12Mbit
modulation on a 5MHz channel, which is 3MBit aggregate at best case
scenario? If you do a speed test, what is the best download you can get
out of it? 3-400kB/s? On an aggregate level, your VoIP would probably
have an issue the firs
There are 5 customers on it. It is horizontal, and yes, 5 MHz. I
call it my trouble sector. I put on a handful of those distant
trouble customers. The greatly improved signal to noise makes it
work quite well. I don't think any of them are doing VOIP. I see
greater than 12 on a couple of
I should think the opposite is true. Halve the signal, improve
signal to noise 3 dB. Half it again and the improvement is 6 dB
signal to noise. Should give you way more margin. My tests prove that out.
At 08:44 PM 11/22/2009, you wrote:
>IIRC, 5MHz and 10MHz is more sucepstible to interfere
I think what he is trying to say that given a noise pattern on your
2.4ISM band, a 20MHz signal may be in that noise about lets say 25% of
your bandwidth footprint. If you decide to drop down to 5MHz and move
your center frequency right onto that noise then you might have just put
yourself rig
Yes, you get more signal, but you have much less spectrum for your spread
spectrum radio to operate in.
Spread spectrum doesn't always use the full 20MHz, it will skip around --
that's the "spread" part of it.
So if you lower that to 5MHz, then you have virtually no "spread" and
anything that may b
Right but you have another 6db to get a stronger signal.
On 11/22/09, Jayson Baker wrote:
> Yes, you get more signal, but you have much less spectrum for your spread
> spectrum radio to operate in.
> Spread spectrum doesn't always use the full 20MHz, it will skip around --
> that's the "spread" p
Doesn't matter. If the interference is there, it's there. If your radio
has no where to spread out the signal and "avoid" that interference, you're
dead.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:
> Right but you have another 6db to get a stronger signal.
>
> On 11/22/09, Jayson Bake
Less chance of an issue but the issue is more damaging is this point.
On 11/23/09, Travis Johnson wrote:
> However, if the noise is "outside" of the 10mhz channel size (say 5mhz on
> each side), the 10mhz link will work perfect, while the 20mhz link will have
> loss and latency.
>
> With smaller
FWIW, I have had oustanding results with 10mhz channels for voice
traffic. We are currently moving all of our old 802.11b APs to 10mhz
channel ofdm, and the results are great. 2x bandwidth capacity, lower
latency and the ability to put up more sectors if needed. Also, VOIP
works much bett
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