Reino failed to supply an accurate factual answer to Allan, perhaps it
is not 'so funny' now, however ;
"
*On 20m at 400 TX marker, my FTDX101MP in 'rig split' has TX Sub vfo set
(by wsjtx) at 14.072.500, and uses an audio frequency of 1900Hz (1500
-2000 Hz being the target passband window)
Obviously The concept is not simple enough to grasp for any licensed
amateur.
Many do not understand the shift of CP VFO frequency to cater for a
passband friendly audio frequency to comply for TX marker set.
The split function is activated in the radio via wsjtx CAT control
The wsjtx
On 08/05/2023 17:44, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
I strongly disagree, Mike. Bjorn's suggestion to call it Transmit
Harmonic Prevention is a VERY good one, because it describes what the
choice does. It is NOT "split" in the sense it has been used in ham
radio for at least 70 years.
People
On Tue, May 09, 2023 at 03:06:34AM +1000, Adrian via wsjt-devel wrote:
> On 9/5/23 02:49, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
>
> > #3 is bogus.
>
> How would you know ? You lack the technical ability..
I'm not an AES fellow, but as another audio 'expert' I can only
confirm that #3 is complete
software development
Cc: Adrian
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
On 9/5/23 02:49, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
#1 is hardly a benefit,
Why not, utilizing a gap at 100Hz or 2900Hz is very useful and effective
with split.
#3 is bogus.
How would
To: WSJT software development
Cc: Phil Williams
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Gah! I am out of here!
Phil de W1ZOT
On Mon, May 8, 2023, 13:11 Adrian via wsjt-devel
mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>>
wrote:
On 9/5/23 02:49, Jim Brown vi
Looks like this hoss has been whupped to death.
Bobby/N4AU
On 5/8/2023 2:30 PM, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
On 5/8/2023 10:06 AM, Adrian wrote:
How would you know ? You lack the technical ability..
I'm a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society, on the basis of a wide
range of technical
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2023 7:07 PM
To: k...@arrl.net; WSJT software development
Cc: Adrian
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
On 9/5/23 02:49, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
> #1 is hardly a benefit,
Why not, utilizing a gap at 100Hz or 2900Hz is v
On 5/8/2023 10:06 AM, Adrian wrote:
How would you know ? You lack the technical ability..
I'm a Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society, on the basis of a wide
range of technical achievements. Also a member of the Standards
Committee of the AES, Vice-Chair of the WG on EMC, a principle
Gah! I am out of here!
Phil de W1ZOT
On Mon, May 8, 2023, 13:11 Adrian via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> On 9/5/23 02:49, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
> > #1 is hardly a benefit,
>
>
> Why not, utilizing a gap at 100Hz or 2900Hz is very useful and effective
> with
On 9/5/23 02:49, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:
#1 is hardly a benefit,
Why not, utilizing a gap at 100Hz or 2900Hz is very useful and effective
with split.
#3 is bogus.
How would you know ? You lack the technical ability..
#2 is a side benefit, but VERY secondary, and not the
#1 is hardly a benefit, #3 is bogus. #2 is a side benefit, but VERY
secondary, and not the fundamental purpose of the practice.
73, Jim K9YC
On 5/8/2023 7:26 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
#1 It allows you to transmit outside your passband.
#2 It avoids roll off of power at band
I strongly disagree, Mike. Bjorn's suggestion to call it Transmit
Harmonic Prevention is a VERY good one, because it describes what the
choice does. It is NOT "split" in the sense it has been used in ham
radio for at least 70 years.
People learn from things being called what they are. Bjorn's
The RX frequency = Set band frequency & pan marker sent > received. If I
send you a 1900Hz audio modulated signal at split Sub TX vfo set
14.072.500 = 14.074.400 usb freq,
Your RX on 14.074.00 band standard RX will see it at 400Hz marker.
73
vk4tux
On 9/5/23 01:46, Alan via wsjt-devel
>From: Alan via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
>Since WSJT-X shifts any transmit audio below 1500Hz higher up the spectrum how
>>come we see RX signals on the waterfall below 1500Hz?
>I presume on RX it shifts all signals back down by the same amount as they
>were
Reino, "Signal Optimization" is a better field name , we control the
audio passband frequency window for the best modulation results = Signal.
73
vk4tux
Sam just sent his proposal how to remove the split word in the relation of the
local split usage. There may be no need for a 'two
Since WSJT-X shifts any transmit audio below 1500Hz higher up the spectrum
how come we see RX signals on the waterfall below 1500Hz?
I presume on RX it shifts all signals back down by the same amount as they
were shifted up on TX?
Alan G0TLK, sent from my mobile device
On 8 May 2023 15:37:14
> From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Much the same as a rig from 50 years ago looks nothing like today --
> including the fact that old rigs had no "split" capability at all and you had
> to use a 2nd transceiver to accomplish the same thing.
> Then
function in the WSJT-X manual/
This removes the ambiguity and confusion regarding the use of the word SPLIT.
73,
Sam W2JDB
-Original Message-
From: Adrian via wsjt-devel
To: WSJT software development
Cc: Adrian
Sent: Mon, May 8, 2023 10:17 am
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement
Much the same as a rig from 50 years ago looks nothing like today -- including
the fact that old rigs had no "split" capability at all and you had to use a
2nd transceiver to accomplish the same thing.Then they added a split button and
operators said "what can I do with this?". And CW split
100%.
I wish the same reasoning was applied to Fox operation. There the Fox can and
often does essentially instruct you, the Hound, to transmit where the Fox’s
receiver passband rolls off.
73,
Clarke K1JX
> On May 8, 2023, at 10:26 AM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel
> wrote:
>
> #1 It
Fair enough, they come with keeping the transmit audio frequency centered
in the passband.
"Use optimal transmit audio frequency" then?
Given the huge and often uninformed debates (not only here), avoiding the
s-word would have a lot of value.
Björn SM7IUN
On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 4:29 PM Black
#1 It allows you to transmit outside your passband.#2 It avoids roll off of
power at band edges.#3 It avoids non-linearities in the audio digitization.
Mike W9MDB
On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 09:13:02 AM CDT, Björn Ekelund via wsjt-devel
wrote:
So what more does it do?
Björn SM7IUN
On
Consistent TX level control, making alc minimum set easier for whole pan
TX usage.
73
vk4tux
On 9/5/23 00:08, Björn Ekelund via wsjt-devel wrote:
So what more does it do?
Björn SM7IUN
On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 3:43 PM Black Michael wrote:
That's not the only thing it does so that's not
So what more does it do?
Björn SM7IUN
On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 3:43 PM Black Michael wrote:
> That's not the only thing it does so that's not a good choice. Nobody has
> every come up with anything better than Split.
> Let's just learn that Split from 50 years ago has changed and is much more
>
That's not the only thing it does so that's not a good choice. Nobody has
every come up with anything better than Split.Let's just learn that Split from
50 years ago has changed and is much more flexible now than before.
Mike W9MDB
On Monday, May 8, 2023 at 08:37:26 AM CDT, Björn
I propose that the option "Split operation" in the radio settings of WSJT-X
is renamed "Transmit harmonics prevention"
to remove some of the confusion to those who struggle with digital radio
technology.
The three options below should be "I don't care if I QRM the band", "Use
VFO B", and "Use
On 5/6/2023 10:41 PM, Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel wrote:
This start to be really funny!
There's a saying in the States that "you can't argue with a drunk." A
corollary is that it's a waste of time to one who only wants the world
to tell him he's right.
The story related in your post is
> From: Black Michael via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: sunnuntai 7. toukokuuta 2023 19.35
> That's why I put 3 definitions of split in there. It means different things
> in
> different contexts
Hi Mike and Sam,
I have had a lot of private discussion with
chael Sent:
Sun, May 7, 2023 11:07 amSubject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion
- 30 second cycles
I almost hate to keep this thread going...but let's try looking at a broader
definition of split using the dictionary type format.
Things do change over time people
Split (noun)
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: Black Michael
Sent: Sun, May 7, 2023 11:07 am
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
I almost hate to keep this thread going...but let's try looking at a broader
definition of split using the dictionary type format.
I almost hate to keep this thread going...but let's try looking at a broader
definition of split using the dictionary type format.
Things do change over time people
Split (noun)
1. When the RF carrier TX/RX frequencies are different (e.g. CW mode).
2. When the AF audio frequencies are
So
All of the many software developers that work on the program, experienced
users, and technical specialists are wrong and you are right?
Got it.
On Sun, 7 May 2023 13:35:16 +1000
Adrian via wsjt-devel wrote:
> But the one you tune in by moving green marker is your receiving
Certainly, but did you test the quality of the signal ?
On 7/5/23 18:19, alan2--- via wsjt-devel wrote:
The indicated frequency on a counter will not change as you are
transmitting a 50Hz wide signal within a frequency range defined by
the upper sideband width. The position of your 50Hz wide
The wsjtx program does that for you. No confusion
vk4tuxc
On 7/5/23 18:19, alan2--- via wsjt-devel wrote:
The indicated frequency on a counter will not change as you are
transmitting a 50Hz wide signal within a frequency range defined by
the upper sideband width. The position of your 50Hz
The indicated frequency on a counter will not change as you are
transmitting a 50Hz wide signal within a frequency range defined by the
upper sideband width. The position of your 50Hz wide transmission will
vary within that sideband width but you will need a good spectrum
analyser to see it.
The fact that you try to compare a voice split qso to a FT 8 qso is stupid..
You look for the vacant slot in the pan and then select that, of not
easy then look for a gap irrelevant of width.
73
vk4tux
On 7/5/23 15:41, Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel wrote:
Hi Adrian,
This start to be
Also on the subject of "split" The radio CP frequency point change on
the vfo display is required,
to obtain the best pass-band frequency required to suit and sum to the
tx marker set.
The radio is shifting its CP frequency between TX and RX to achieve this.
In "rig splt" the 'split'
Reino, Your comments are not addressing mine, but rather what you assume.
The decoder decodes the entire pan RX bandwith, the green marker filter
just separates that traffic within that mark, for separate "visual"
display,,
there is no difference in sensitivity other than the radio RX
Hi Adrian,
This start to be really funny!
Let me take a real scenario that I participated. If I remember correctly it was
a FT8 contest and there were a rare station, at least to me, K1JT. So everybody
called him, including me, quite a pile-up on his transmit frequency. Joe tried
to manage
But the one you tune in by moving green marker is your receiving frequency.
Same way you tune your transmitter by moving red marker.
*No, The green marker is just a decode filter for that mark to place
that traffic in the right pane for view.The receive frequency covers the whole 3 -4 KHz
That was a very good explanation, if people don't understand that they should maybe take up knitting.Sent from a Galaxy far far away.On 3 May 2023 16:34, Saku via wsjt-devel wrote:Oh, what a sandstorm!
I write once more as I got an idea that perhaps clears out, or not, way
of thinking for
Oh, what a sandstorm!
I write once more as I got an idea that perhaps clears out, or not, way
of thinking for those who are not RF experts.
We all know, (do we?), what SDR rig is. Look for webSDR receives
(Googling...) it gives a view if SDR is not familiar.
OK!
WSJT-X software turns your
rom: Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel
To: 'WSJT software development'
Cc: Reino Talarmo
Sent: Tue, May 2, 2023 12:22 pm
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Hi Sam, Adrian and the Experts,
Before I can answer some of the questions, I need to repeat my
underst
Sam W2JDB
-Original Message-
From: Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel
To: 'WSJT software development'
Cc: Reino Talarmo
Sent: Tue, May 2, 2023 12:22 pm
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Hi Sam, Adrian and the Experts,
Before I can answer some of the qu
Hi Sam, Adrian and the Experts,
Before I can answer some of the questions, I need to repeat my understanding
how SPLIT should be defined. I use two different ‘splits’ that can be used at
the same time or independently.
#Class: the classical split simply means you are using a different radiated
On 2/5/23 23:33, Sam W2JDB via wsjt-devel wrote:
Hi,
Having followed this thread from the beginning and being a small part
of it (in the beginning) I do have some questions regarding the use of
the
word SPLIT as it pertains to WSJT-X versus its classical meaning on
the HF Bands in CW and
in radio land.
73,
Sam W2JDB
-Original Message-
From: Adrian via wsjt-devel
To: WSJT software development ; k...@arrl.net
Cc: Adrian
Sent: Tue, May 2, 2023 8:15 am
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Experts ?
On 2/5/23 15:13, Reino Talarmo via wsjt
What you're calling "Software AHS" is not just for harmonic suppression. It
also allows you to transmit outside your bandpass (virtually). So even though
your rig may only have 2400Hz of width you can still transmit at 2900Hz -- you
just can't receive there. It also helps avoid signal loss
Experts ?
On 2/5/23 15:13, Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel wrote:
Jim, Mike and all experts,
___
wsjt-devel mailing list
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
paragement -
it adds nothing to the discussion.
Alan McDonald
Worimi Country
0413 657 427
-Original Message-
From: Jim Brown via wsjt-devel
Sent: Tuesday, May 2, 2023 6:37 PM
To: Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel
Cc: Jim Brown
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 sec
On 5/1/2023 10:13 PM, Reino Talarmo via wsjt-devel wrote:
2# Limiting the usage of the split word to that most probably was a logical
decision to prevent mixing it to the 'split working', hi! Well, in reality
WSJT was designed for various weak signal modes especially EME and there is
(was) no
Alan, Yes all good, you said it well.
My explanation was within the radio before modulation, regarding RF
frequency shift on TX to accommodate a quality center passband audio
modulation frequency.
Everyone else is talking about the resultant transmitted signal
frequency agreed being the sum
Interesting discussion but I find it a bit confusing so I've gone back to
basics:
The transmission is in the form of amplitude modulation using single
(upper) sideband suppressed carrier. That means the RF may not be a single
frequency but a band of frequencies with the bandwidth defined by
a wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: tiistai 2. toukokuuta 2023 7.29
> To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: Jim Brown
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
>
> On 5/1/2023 8:31 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-deve
On 5/1/2023 8:31 PM, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
Nobody owns the definition of split
Mike,
For as long as I've been a ham (68 years) "split" operation has meant
transmitting on a frequency DIFFERENT from the station you're working.
The most common application is for a DX station in
Thankyou Mike
73
vk4tux
On 2/5/23 13:31, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote:
Nobody owns the definition of splitas for confusing hams they are
only confused because they refuse to learn.
#1 Rigs have a split button -- it lights up. That's split mode -- no
requirement that VFOB be on
Nobody owns the definition of splitas for confusing hams they are only
confused because they refuse to learn.
#1 Rigs have a split button -- it lights up. That's split mode -- no
requirement that VFOB be on any different frequency than VFOA. You can run CW
Skimmer on an IC-7300 with VFOA
On Tue, 2 May 2023 10:57:17 +1000
Adrian via wsjt-devel wrote:
You STILL do not understand.
> All the online definitions I find for 'split' operation are ;
>
> Split means transmitting on one frequency and listening on another.
>
> referring to your own station, without reference to anyone
All the online definitions I find for 'split' operation are ;
Split means transmitting on one frequency and listening on another.
referring to your own station, without reference to anyone else.
FT8 is not a 'listening' mode. It is visual receiving 3 - 4 Khz wide
including wherever you are
Too funny, as the rx of both stations covers the entire pan bandwidth,
the fact they are transmitting on a different pan slice within,
does not qualify as 'audio split' in my book. If both were running 300Hz
rx filters then it might qualify on matching tx/tx placement between two
stations
There is no 'audio split' in WSJTX' TX audio is determined by mode, RF
frequency and the TX marker.
RX audio decode covers the pan bandwidth, with the RX marker filtered
for the right pane display.
vk4tux
On 1/5/23 14:45, Jim Shorney via wsjt-devel wrote:
audio split in WSJTX
Jim, Yes the whole point of the RF frequency changing is forcing the
audio frequency to respond to keep it in the passband best window.
My Sub vfo goes down/up in 500 Hz steps as I alter my TX marker. (TX
hold option always), throughout the pan 3000JHz range.
I don't accept my radio is not
You guys are saying the same thing if different ways. It is all split. Just
like repeater split, DXpedition split, and 40m DX split are all different kinds
of split so are rig split and audio split in WSJTX. If anything this just shows
that it needs to be clarified in the documentation so it
Again I disagree. Your are not discussing the same factor that I am of
the radio changing carrier frequency as displayed with data shift
allowance already of ;
FUNC > RADIO SETTING > Mode PSK/DATA> DATA SHIFT {SSB} set 1500 HZ .
So if I see a spot at 28.079.400, I tune to 28.079.00 and sure
On 4/30/2023 4:30 PM, Adrian via wsjt-devel wrote:
Reino, this is where we disagree, as my point is if the vfo frequency
changes, then the 'radio frequency' which I consider the same also changes.
Adrian,
Reino is right, and you are wrong. Nothing personal, just scientific
fact. The
Reino, this is where we disagree, as my point is if the vfo frequency
changes, then the 'radio frequency' which I consider the same also changes.
We do not see the vfo frequency display in sync variance with the
modulation frequency. It remains static at the carrier point, which I
consider
selection for CQ).
My 2 cents.
73, Reino OH3mA
> -Original Message-
> From: Adrian via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: sunnuntai 30. huhtikuuta 2023 11.03
> To: WSJT software development
> Cc: Adrian
> Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhanceme
@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: Saku
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Sam W2JDB via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 28.4.2023 klo 15.03:
Saku, split on WSJT-X means that WSJT-X can automatically adjust your frequency
so that your transmit audio is always somewhere within the middle
Setting a fixed TX mark should be default behavior in wsjtx. Having
default set users jumping on the target mark together with their TX is
not beneficial,
rather than spaced tx calls forming a better decoded cue for the target
to then work. TXing on a clear space and RX the target on the
is.
73,
Sam W2JDB
-Original Message-
From: Saku via wsjt-devel
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: Saku
Sent: Sun, Apr 30, 2023 3:25 am
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Sam W2JDB via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 28.4.2023 klo 15.03:
Saku, split
I disagree with below.
Sam explained it well. Keeping the same Pan TX location the RF frequency
is shifted to maintain and audio frequency suitable for the best
passband performance and level
continuity. It is split. The TX VFO adjust to 500, 1000 below the RX RX
VFO frequency when pan TX
Sam W2JDB via wsjt-devel kirjoitti 28.4.2023 klo 15.03:
Saku, split on WSJT-X means that WSJT-X can automatically adjust your
frequency so that your transmit audio is always somewhere within the
middle of the audio bandpass.
73,
Sam W2JDB
Hi Sam!
Split, what Google translate says, means
On 4/28/2023 7:04 AM, Sam W2JDB via wsjt-devel wrote:
Yes I know exactly what split is in WSJT-X.
And it is confusing to long time hams because it was a very poor choice
of words, contrary to what "split" operation has meant on the HF bands
for at least 70 years. "Split" in the context of
On 4/28/2023 4:35 AM, Saku via wsjt-devel wrote:
How do you know that?
Of course, thanks to skip zones, we do not, but we know more than if we
hadn't paused to listen. But you chose not to quote this part of my
response, which acknowledged that. :)
> and then to choose a TX frequency that
Original Message-
From: Reino Talarmo
To: 'Sam W2JDB' ; 'WSJT software development'
Sent: Fri, Apr 28, 2023 9:50 am
Subject: RE: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Hi Sam,Saku was talking about ‘RF split’.
The WSJKT-X Split Operation is only a method to keep your sig
I find below statement odd. as the Pan audio mark is sent exactly as
you set it. Only the RF frequency shifts to suit the audio > bandpass
sweetspot.
It is indicative that you do not realize how it works.
73
vk4tux
On the other hand I don’t support of the idea that WSJT-X would
randomly
via wsjt-devel [mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net]
Sent: perjantai 28. huhtikuuta 2023 15.03
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: Sam W2JDB
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Fwd: Enhancement suggestion - 30 second cycles
Saku, split on WSJT-X means that WSJT-X can automatically adjust your
Saku, split on WSJT-X means that WSJT-X can automatically adjust your frequency
so that your transmit audio is always somewhere within the middle of the audio
bandpass.
73,
Sam W2JDB
-Original Message-
From: Saku via wsjt-devel
To: wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Cc: Saku
Sent:
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