Re: [Zen] Is There Anybody Out There?

Reply Entered Per Last Yours. KG On 9/26/2013 12:58 AM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: Whoever reads this post please REPLY. I'm requesting this as a test of the new Yahoo! Group format. Thanks...Bill!

Re: [Zen] Illusions

uot;. I have know way of really knowing. In fact I do think some animals share some of our intellectual characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our delusions. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mail

Re: [Zen] Illusions

The most basic and most problematic intellectual characteristic is the delusion of duality. That's basically believing there is a 'you' that is separate and distinct from 'everything else'. IMO everything else follows from there such as logic, reason, judgment, categorization, time, etc...

Re: [Zen] Illusions

;As to those stirrings of sense... I am quite clear they are of no account, so the best thing is to make no account of them." - Saint Teresa, to her brother Lorenzo. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > OK - Forum's slow, and all's quiet here

Re: [Zen] Illusions

there are separate things but they are all connected. When I talk about One-ness I do not talk about separate things being connected. I talk about just one thing - Just THIS!. Nothing else. True compassion for me are actions which spring from that One-ness perspective, not the 'connectedn

Re: [Zen] Id, ego and super-ego -

Zen ain't Psy 101, Merle ole girl. KG On 9/15/2013 12:21 AM, Merle Lester wrote: so let's get this straight..it's the id...that is the one that needs taming bill, mike and kris... give that ego bashing a break... refresh your knowledge please...then let's talk.. merle http://en.wikipedi

Re: [Zen] Illusions

ellectual characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our delusions. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > > > Key words there Bill!: "... seem to be..." > > >

Re: [Zen] Illusions

To ask why, or to not ask, is this not just the nature of this? *L* The 'bother' (aka suffering), or rather to see it so, is optional. KG On 9/14/2013 11:37 PM, Merle Lester wrote: right..why bother with the brain at all?... merle On 9/14/2013 5:20 AM, Merle Lester wrote: thinking...real

Re: [Zen] Illusions

This is easy to agree with, but to do so sustains the error this seeks to correct. No explanation can suffice. KG On 9/14/2013 5:56 AM, Bill! wrote: Merle, No! The human intellect including thinking does not have to be discarded. It the ATTACHEMENT to thinking that must be discarded. Thin

Re: [Zen] Illusions

ave know way of really knowing. In fact I do think some animals share some of our intellectual characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our delusions. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > > > Key words there B

Re: [Zen] Illusions

On 9/14/2013 5:20 AM, Merle Lester wrote: thinking...really bill..must it be discarded full stop?...merle Spiritual questioning (self-inquiry), ultimately serves only to reveal the illusion (for those with eyes to see). Stopping the mind, is itself illusion of mind. Otherwise, this passes

Re: [Zen] Illusions

013 3:48 AM, Bill! wrote: KG, That's why I said "seems to be". I have know way of really knowing. In fact I do think some animals share some of our intellectual characteristics. And maybe in that respect also share some of our delusions. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

Re: [Zen] Illusions

Key words there Bill!: "... seem to be..." Ordinary mind, such a seemly business. Always becoming (appearing as) this or that to itself, for itself, of itself. Ordinary mind distinguishes itself by caring for such distinctions, and thus becoming self-deluded by continually grasping and rejecti

Re: [Zen] Compassion Research

On 9/4/2013 8:37 PM, tri...@yahoo.com.au wrote: > ..."Buddhist concept of self-compassion"... Whatever that may be thought to be, it is not compassion, nor does it even sound particularly Buddhist. Please don't mistake 'New Age' feel good/self love/self help BS for Buddhism, despite the pletho

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

for that. Spot on. Unfortunately, can talk this stuff all > day long, but practicing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this > world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. > > > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

world 'delusion' - past, present and future. > > As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only > > experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

On 8/27/2013 8:08 PM, larry maher wrote: > You must lead a very happy, fulfilling life? PS - Seriously, how f'ing boring would THAT be? Like it or not, contrasts reveal highlights. Only the darkness can carry the light, only the light can fill the darkness.. KG -

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

girl that's kicking his ass into shape just as my wifey did to me:) Thanks again, Larry PS: If you ever feel the need for some long term suffering my wife's got a single sister :-) On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Kristopher Grey <mailto:k...@kgrey.com>> wrote: "

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

icing it? living it? In minutes I fall 'victim' to this world without even knowing it.The best I can do is to remember to remember. On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Kristopher Grey <mailto:k...@kgrey.com>> wrote: All thoughts, afterthoughts. All actions,

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world > > of past and f

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

t, present and future. As far as I can tell there are no thoughts of the present. There is only experience in the present, and experience preceeds thought. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > On 8/27/2013 12:14

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

Freeing the mind is a myth. What cannot be found, cannot be bound. The imagined mind, imagines itself otherwise. KG On 8/27/2013 1:53 AM, larry maher wrote: Totally fair to say. How can anyone 'free' his mind if he hangs onto preconceived ideas? On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 10:44 PM,

Re: [Zen] SOURCE OF STRESS

On 8/27/2013 12:14 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > Stress starts the moment you move away from now into the thought world > of past and future. The "thought world" can only exist "now". Thoughts, arising and passing, now. Thought, is an aspect of now. Another word for what you are describing as "t

Re: [Zen] creation

On 8/25/2013 5:17 AM, Merle Lester wrote: > now tell me i'm delusional... as i struggling to cope with the lack of > awareness from some human beings on this planet... > > merle To be caught up in appearances so, what is that if not delusion? KG Current Bo

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

"Most people" of such delusional persuasion also use 'creation' as a noun. KG On 8/25/2013 1:01 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Your definition is meaningless though and certainly not in accord with how most people define 'God'. The universe works just fine without such a belief. Why pai

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

And comfort is only sought when dis-eased. KG On 8/24/2013 4:19 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Merle, Utility is no measure of Truth. Mike

Re: [Zen] buddha nature

Cha-Ching! KG On 8/24/2013 2:41 AM, Merle Lester wrote: so what is american...?...merle Chan is Chinese interpretation zen is Japanese. Tibean is Dali Lama?

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

On 8/24/2013 2:27 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Larry, Why would Zen be looking for a God? That would just be creating an unnecessary dualism. The universe works perfectly well without the need to create a Creator. Mike Even the need some feel to identify or creating a creator is an

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

Yes Merle, and there is a great variety in behaviors and capabilities. Being on the spectrum myself, be assured I was not being glib or unthinking with that suggestion. It was from the heart. Also, Suresh is more than capable of catching the intent of my suggestion and determining what his chil

Re: [Zen] Re: new member

Yes Merle, you could say acceptance is 'good' in certain circumstances, or that it is of use/value to the individual. That's the point. As such it remains a subtle form of attachment. I am not judging this, or suggesting it not be pursued. I am only pointing out the dual nature of grasping/reje

Re: [Zen] Evolve or die

Eckhart, though clearly a dear man, appears to have fallen into a habit of playing to 'new age" peoples' sentimentality. "Evolve or die." ? While perhaps an evocative comment, there is no choice in this. These are integral aspects of our existence. Each of us, a 'new' experiment in 'humanity'

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

Perhaps you could buy the child a small parrot to care for and train... KG On 8/22/2013 10:19 AM, varam...@gmail.com wrote: > Dear sirs, > > Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become > very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to >

Re: [Zen] zen as a tool

On 8/22/2013 7:45 PM, 覺妙精明 （JMJM） wrote: ... yet we need to be mindful that Bill is not a Buddhist. :-( JM Which chopstick is the right one? I cannot tell. Fortunately it is of no consequence. A round bowl can only be emptied from one side. KG

Re: [Zen] zen as a tool

Can 'the Buddha Nature' approach itself? Such a funny game this is! KG On 8/22/2013 7:00 PM, Merle Lester wrote: JM CLARIFICATION...please.. bill say he practises zen however he is not a buddhist... i was under the impression zen was part and parcel of buddhism... that zen is the way w

Re: [Zen] Re: new member

On 8/22/2013 5:12 AM, Merle Lester wrote: ..when in reality it is a matter of acceptance merle Acceptance, of anything, is rejection of change. KG

Re: [Zen] Re: the human body

'Real' and 'delusion', are also 'classification'. The Taoist symbol of Yin/Yang may appear to spin, but only if you're putting some spin on it. KG On 8/21/2013 9:43 PM, Bill! wrote: The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is Buddha Nature. The classification of it as '

Re: [Zen] the human body

On 8/20/2013 7:57 PM, Merle Lester wrote: my zen question is thus: to be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint? merle Whether you think it is, or is not, binds you. KG

Re: [Zen] the human body

On 8/20/2013 7:57 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > i have belief that monks can practise a form of meditation whereby > the can slow the whole body/ mind totally down to an almost non > existent state Then you also believe is such common sense nonsense as existence and nonexistence. The practices yo

Re: [Zen] Re: CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS FROM RAMANA

On 8/2/2013 2:11 AM, Merle Lester wrote: is that you KG from a blast in the past?...merle Has it been so long? KG

Re: [Zen] Re: CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS FROM RAMANA

Greetings Suresh! Insights are not gifts given by others, but innate realizations. Inward sights. Realizations, rather than learned facts. If they appear otherwise, or seem triggered by others, then they are either just adopted concepts or[the insight is that] there is more to realize about th

Re: [Zen] Re: Group settings

I'm setting all my groups to "No Email" for a while - so unless I go to the group site (and I'm not in the habit of doing so), I won't see any of your messages. The email I've been using here will still be active if anyone wants to get in touch. KG Curren

Re: [Zen] Repeating Daily Question for Edgar - Day 2

oups.com>, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > On 10/14/2012 9:52 PM, Bill! wrote: > > Q1 - What role do you think intelligence (the ability to > > understand)plays in realizing Buddha Nature? > > "Don't use a Buddha to seek Buddha" - Bodhidharma >

Re: [Zen] Repeating Daily Question for Edgar - Day 2

On 10/14/2012 9:52 PM, Bill! wrote: > Q1 - What role do you think intelligence (the ability to > understand)plays in realizing Buddha Nature? "Don't use a Buddha to seek Buddha" - Bodhidharma Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read

Re: [Zen] Re: winter bones

Sehr gute Wilhelm, erhalten Sie einen goldenen Stern! On 10/14/2012 8:17 PM, Bill! wrote: DAS GLASPERLENSPIEL is German for THE GLASS BEAD GAME...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com , "Joe" wrote: > > Merle, et al., > > I can *recommend* Hesse's, MAGIS

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

On 10/14/2012 1:59 PM, Joe wrote: > The hundred-year-old $20 gold US coin I bought for $400 US about ten > years ago is now said to be worth over $1700. Buys the about the same amount of gas, then as now. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you rece

Re: [Zen] Re: winter bones

Read "The Glass Bead Game' back in college, along with his 'Siddhartha' - had forgotten it until your mention. KG Some relevant quotes - for those with more of a 'Readers Digest' constitution: http://www.notable-quotes.com/h/hesse_hermann.html On 10/14/2012 1:43 PM, Joe wrote: Merle, et a

Re: [Zen] Re: nice news from Jim

it. And if you ask my opinion about some unknown person practicing for awakening, then I don't want to answer: the question is pointlessly theoretical and any answer would be valueless. --Joe > Kristopher Grey wrote: > > Yes yes, I'm well aware of all that - or numerous mental

Re: [Zen] Re: nice news from Jim

also be glad to see progress: attainment. If you practice for awakening, you'll need a teacher. --Joe > Kristopher Grey wrote: > > Perhaps, but what would you term sitting with intention/expectation, or > claiming attainments resulting from sitting meditation? "Weak

Re: [Zen] Re: nice news from Jim

Perhaps, but what would you term sitting with intention/expectation, or claiming attainments resulting from sitting meditation? "Weak practice"? *L* Surely there's a quaint oriental terms for this disease as well. On 10/13/2012 12:35 PM, Joe wrote: Bill, "Buji-Zen" exemplified. Good state

Re: [Zen] Re: Possibly Delicious Levity -- "To Boldly Slice"

cher Sheng Yen is that he was a monk even while he was a Captain in the Taiwan Army. There are several biographies, but the most complete in English is: FOOTPRINTS IN THE SNOW, 2008, Doubleday. What's my prize for finding a/the counter-example? ;-}> --J. > Kristopher Grey wrote:

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

"Karma is intention" - Buddha Intention, is attachment! *L* At the other end of the umbilical is expectation, AKA 'suffering' KG PS - Manifesting Buddha nature is not optional, though realizing this appears to be. ;) On 10/13/2012 5:42 AM, Bill! wrote: Mike, Well for starters during my

Re: [Zen] nice news from Jim

Yeah Joe, I read him that way. He was clear enough on that I thought, but seemed unwilling to reconsider the assumptions that lead him to such conclusions. A sort of high minded, and I suppose well intentioned (marching into hell), neo-fundamentalist, not realizing he repeats history with such

Re: [Zen] Re: Possibly Delicious Levity -- "To Boldly Slice"

Vulcan Nonviolence? A rather human interpretation. Vulcans' enemies are dispassionately dispatched. "Necessary action" may not be thought of as "violent action" but the result is the same for the dead. Klingon logic would say that engaging the enemy in such a heartless manner lacks honor and r

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

inary it is. It is wonderful. Don't miss it. Carry on, Montesquieu, --Joe > Kristopher Grey wrote: > > Zen calls this "Ordinary mind".

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/12/2012 4:31 PM, Joe wrote: > Get over it! Mountain surround the desert. KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: htt

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

Owen wrote: Joe and KG, There is only one Zen. Some realize it and some don't... Edgar On Oct 12, 2012, at 4:23 PM, Joe wrote: K., Dat's the only kind. I hope. Never leave Rome without it. --Joe / keeping it Personal > Kristopher Grey wrote: > > Another Edgar e

Re: [Zen] Re: Possibly Delicious Levity -- "To Boldly Slice"

All warriors are not monks, and not all monks are warriors. All soldiers are not warriors, and all warriors are not soldiers. These separations by occupation are what cause wars. Who realizes this? KG On 10/12/2012 4:17 PM, Joe wrote: Bill, I think Samurai espoused and exploited Zen; "Zen" h

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/12/2012 4:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > My sole intent is to correct what I see as incorrect ideas about Zen, > no matter what the source... The only difference, is I have no intention for others to do anything other than realize this for themselves. All else is this "illusion" you define of

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

On 10/12/2012 2:45 PM, Joe wrote: > People have gotten and do get in trouble with religion when they make > it literal or take it literally and forget that it is metaphor. > Religionists -- keepers of religion -- have done this too. > > Scientists get in trouble this way when they take MODELS lit

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/12/2012 2:24 PM, Joe wrote: > the green and rough bits... are good for the digestion. ;) Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go

Re: [Zen] Possibly Delicious Levity -- "To Boldly Slice"

dly and practical and not very related to Zen, at least as most here think of it... I understand Vulcan also paid his bills on time! ;-) Edgar On Oct 11, 2012, at 11:31 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: On 10/11/2012 2:37 PM, Joe wrote: > (BTW, Spock always puts me in mind of "Zen"

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

As happens each time you say "no" to this. KG On 10/12/2012 7:18 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: KG, No, there is illusion. But illusion seen as illusion is reality. Only illusion seen as reality is illusion.. Edgar On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:39 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: Realizing t

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

Another Edgar edit. More marketing copy to peddle his personal brand pf Zen. KG On 10/12/2012 7:16 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: KG, The gospel according to KG is 'anything goes' But anything goes is NOT Zen... Edgar On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:30 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: > On 10

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

'Should', 'Would' and 'Could' - The seeds of intention (karma) - the roots of expectation (suffering). KG On 10/11/2012 11:35 PM, Merle Lester wrote: so how the "f" should they be raised edgar?..merle On 10/11/2012 12:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > NO ONE should be raised as a muslim, Christian

Re: [Zen] Possibly Delicious Levity -- "To Boldly Slice"

On 10/11/2012 2:37 PM, Joe wrote: > (BTW, Spock always puts me in mind of "Zen", somehow). 'Vulcan' was not a random choice of planet/race in that story line. KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about i

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

Sweet! ;) (Tasted this before, but the flavor was so so clearly experienced I'd forgotten the context of the first taste. Thanks for the second helping Joe) KG On 10/11/2012 12:52 PM, Joe wrote: Mike, A woman called on Gandhi at his home, with her little son in tow. They were admitted ins

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

On 10/11/2012 12:16 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > NO ONE should be raised as a muslim, Christian or in any other > delusion.. That makes it that more difficult to reach realization... This perceived difficulty - this attachment to form - IS the "delusion". KG

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

Ghandi had an agenda. Not self-serving, but an agenda nonetheless. Something for all Bodhisattvas to be mindful of. KG On 10/11/2012 11:58 AM, mike brown wrote: Joe, Nice. However, I'm glad Gandhi's not here to instruct me to raise any Muslim Jihadists.. Or IRA 'soldiers'.. Mike --

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

:) A nicely balanced expression Mike (not that another opinion maters). Samadhi, "efficacious" as a direct reminder of the remainder. An aspect of that which appears to be experiencing whatever arises. With or without - realized with or without - apparent 'correlation" the recognition thereof

Re: [Zen] hiding under a rock?

Owen wrote: KG, "No need to be sure" Except where your next meal is coming from? Or if you can pay your bills? Give us a break! Zen is life, not pretending to escape from life when that's quite impossible. Edgar On Oct 11, 2012, at 12:02 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote:

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

Realizing this, there is no "illusion". KG On 10/11/2012 8:20 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: Bill, Needs to understand there is 'no separation' between self and theory. Both are part of reality when truly understood for what they are. Both manifest ONLY as direct experience. The "discriminating, ra

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/11/2012 8:15 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: > Direct experience is primary. Secondary, tertiary, etc. - the processing of experiencing - being what some call "illusion" - but seeing these as different is what cause the appearance of a "problem" - as all this arises as an aspect of the "primary" re

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/11/2012 7:56 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > The PROBLEM is that this meditative state is only temporary and true > Zen has to be 24/7 in all aspects of daily life. No problem, as all such states appear as aspects of this. KG Current Book Discussion: any Z

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/11/2012 7:24 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: > How do you know what you are experiencing is reality or illusion if > you don't understand the difference? > > Riddle me that! No riddle apart from the riddler - who assumes understanding is lacking or requires finding. To think you know is illusion, b

Re: [Zen] Public Service Announcement

Cheated? Rejoice! If he's done, we are indeed rescued! *L* On 10/11/2012 6:28 AM, mike brown wrote: What??! No GDE (Grand Dramatic Exit)? I feel cheated. *From:* Bill! *To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, 11

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

erful attachments. Shattering into pieces, revealing this was never lacking. KG On 10/10/2012 6:17 PM, mike brown wrote: *From:* Kristopher Grey <mailto:k...@kgrey.com> *To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <ma

Re: [Zen] calm down

chments to these forms of divisive thinking. KG On 10/10/2012 11:27 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: KG, I find it appalling you support the destruction of the planet by humans and attack those who argue against it... The lowest of the low... Edgar On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Kristopher Grey wrot

Re: [Zen] hiding under a rock?

On 10/10/2012 11:28 PM, Joe wrote: > Clarity is hard to accomplish, and even then to be sure of. Effort stirs the mud Clarity is effortless No need to be sure KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about i

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/10/2012 9:17 PM, jfnewell7 wrote: > If I find out how to save others, that will automatically cause me to > be saved, so I don't have to pay any attention to doing something just > for myself. The mirror of mind presents the path as a two way street. Keep to your own lane and you save oth

Re: [Zen] creative new ideas

Your mind is "creative" enough to instantaneously generate countless such beings. Seek no others. KG On 10/10/2012 8:27 PM, jfnewell7 wrote: Can anyone come up with some creative new ideas which would help in my research to discover the knowledge needed to quickly save all beings? A tent

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/10/2012 8:14 PM, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: > How do you explain the non-locality then? Consider an implication of the word 'non-locality' is there is no actual place. No space. Since space and time are reciprocal functions, no 'space-time', at least not as anything other than a relativisti

Re: [Zen] spotty claims

On 10/10/2012 7:50 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > KG might be mis interpreting here merely for the sake of winning > points..merle Why propose this pointless motivation theory? Is there really a spot on the mirror, or is it just a trick of the eye? KG Current

Re: [Zen] calm down

the destruction of the planet by humans and attack those who argue against it... The lowest of the low... Edgar On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote: Definitive dependency - in other words you frame this in a self-supporting way. The way a child argues when trying to soun

Re: [Zen] hiding under a rock?

When have argued for or against such worldly conventions? Am I not also 'man'? I clearly I see that others appear conditioned to think in this divisive way. Doesn't mean I'm going to buy in, or dive into that mental cesspool as a prerequisite for engaging in the conversation or the rest of li

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

Powerful experiences, powerful attachments. Shattering into pieces, revealing this was never lacking. KG On 10/10/2012 6:17 PM, mike brown wrote: *From:* Kristopher Grey *To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Sent

Re: [Zen] calm down

, at 10:52 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote: Definitive dependency - in other words you frame this in a self-supporting way. The way a child argues when trying to sound all grown up. You might as well just say: "You are a stupid baby! Stop being such a stupid baby!" *L* No one is denyi

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

You are the only one arguing this. KG On 10/10/2012 11:28 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: It's the logical consequence of your argument... Edgar On Oct 10, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote: I'd ask you where you get this shit, if it wasn't obvious. KG On 10/10/2012

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

On 10/10/2012 11:27 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: KG, I find it appalling you support the destruction of the planet by humans and attack those who argue against it... The lowest of the low... Edgar On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:52 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote: Definitive dependency - in other words you

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

I'd ask you where you get this shit, if it wasn't obvious. KG On 10/10/2012 10:44 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: KG, So you don't mind being tortured or killed? That's not what I gathered from your biographical posts... Edgar On Oct 10, 2012, at 10:03 AM, Kristopher Grey w

Re: [Zen] Re: Buddha-nature and Expansion of Space

On 10/10/2012 7:21 AM, Bill! wrote: > I'm MORE interested in qualta than quanta...Bill! Clearly, your interest lies! *L* KG Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To v

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

o:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 0:59 *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice KG, How egocentric! It matters to the animals which is much more important . Edgar On Oct 9, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Kristopher

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

Definitive dependency - in other words you frame this in a self-supporting way. The way a child argues when trying to sound all grown up. You might as well just say: "You are a stupid baby! Stop being such a stupid baby!" *L* No one is denying 'reality' but you Edgar. You are perverting other

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

garo...@att.net>> *To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 0:59 *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice KG, How egocentric! It matters to the animals which is much more important . Edgar On Oct 9, 2012, at 7:43 P

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

Perhaps Edgar is just conditioned more 'Old Testament' than 'New Testament'. ;) Either way, this business of Man vs Nature sounds like a Sunday School lesson on our 'special' role/responsibility - of dominion over the creatures of Earth. We are 'in His image' - not them (which points to somet

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

On 10/10/2012 6:04 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: Bill and Joe, Zen is not clever schoolboy comments about serious subjects... Edgar Nor is it serious comments about schoolboy subjects. You boil a great deal of water, yet enjoy no tea. KG

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

t happens to the animals, not what someone thinks about it, or who makes what clever comeback about it... Zen is not about personal feelings or words, it's about what really happens. Edgar On Oct 9, 2012, at 8:29 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: A poke in the eye, and still he misses the

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

oogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 0:59 *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice KG, How egocentric! It matters to the animals which is much more important ..... Edgar On Oct 9, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: FWIW - 'I' am my "indoor pet"

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

27;s words appeared again in a post with YOU; deja VU! I recalled I wanted to reply to them. Blacksmith that I never was, I struck while the iron was hot. Ironic? Yes. --J. > Kristopher Grey wrote: > > Why reply to me, and only include Jim's words in the bit you appear to be replying to? [snippers]

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

t "best" sounds good; it is however entirely relative to something, and I don't know what that standard is, that series of tried-on-and-rejected states, for you. So, I can't yet understand, or agree. And of course that's OK. We're just talking. --Joe > Kristophe

Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice

A poke in the eye, and still he misses the point! *L* On 10/9/2012 7:59 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: KG, How egocentric! It matters to the animals which is much more important . Edgar On Oct 9, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: FWIW - 'I' am my "indoor pet&

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