Re: [Zope-dev] Zopezen.org is slower! Should time be spent on Plone or ZPTspeed?
But with some good people switching channels, will Zope still end up a major player in the market? Unfortunately from my forays into the non-Zope (or Plone) into the CMS market I dont think Zope is anywhere near a major player. I just don't understand why working on Plone is considered switching channels. When I developed the CMFZen skin was that switching channels? Is Squishdot? I can only wonder and speculate why it's not a major player in the market. I've been around long enough in the industry to see free products such as winamp, MIRC, Linux, PK-Zip and others that have actually become like standards in their areas. I equate switching products to switching channels because look how CMFZen is changing, and what in the hell ever happened to Swishdot?!? Please don't get me wrong, products like squishdot, CMFZen, and others have steered me towards Zope. They are fine examples of the things that make Zope appealing. But if you really think about what I'm saying you might understand my meaning. Zope--is to MTV and Plone -- is to VH1. Squishdot-- is to CMT. Now this analogy is not a hard and fast rule, so you can mix and match whatever Music television stations are in your area to whatever zope product you like. The point is they are all music stations, and some even try to be more. I believe MTV is the number one worldwide. Now I'm relating Zope to MTV back when it was new and first came out. It was all music 24 hours a day. First it was pop/rock and then they added like Rap and other styles. Next thing you know you have other music stations that cater to specific niche groups. Even if you have a picture in picture(PIP) television can you really comfortably watch two stations at once? No, so if you watch, support and become a fan of Country Music Television, how much time is taken away from the original MTV? Imho until Zope has achieved the market share and the place where is should be, Then the other stations(products) become more valuable as alternatives. Whenever I speak to anyone about Plone I mention Zope in the first sentence. Lets now examine that sentence, aha but you mention Plone before you mention Zope? ;-) It was at first tricky to get the Zen of Zope. Then you had to learn the Zen of CMF, Now there is a need for the Zen of Plone. I got two old sayings, one is I think some people might be Putting the cart before the horse and Too many cooks, spoil the broth snip Perhaps, but how will you know until you try? There's more than one reason a project goes under and in some ways Plone is quite different. That's what they all say. I've tried, but to say the least Plone is an ambitious project. But I have to agree with Erik how much or how little are you planning on porting to a stock zope/cmf product with what you do with Plone? I smell commecial interest here. I smell people trying to make that one killer project hoping to make it big, instead of centering around the one vehicle that will help make a bunch of projects big someday. I won't deny it. I believe I can sell Plone and I'm not sure I can sell Zope as easily. Its a simple fact that I have to sell what the clients want: if I spend all my time concetrating on Zope innards, I doubt I'll be able to pay the mortgage. In the last 3 months 75% of my clients have come to me for Plone, in one case I steered them to a solution in Zope because I felt it was a more appropriate solution. All I can say is selling products such as Plone, medzope,or whatever makes sense for sure. Even if it's just consulting gigs for the Free versions. But if I can guess what the market will do, then the market will either open-source or make free their products to stop any serious damage to their share of the market. Right now they are like Microsoft. As long as they are making money why give it away free? Only time will tell. Btw I'm just trying to present alternative ideas on the table. Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zopezen.org is slower! Should time be spent on Plone or ZPTspeed?
From: Paul Everitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] I agree with Andy. Zope is a tool. Things like Silva and Plone are products. The purpose of Zope is to allow people to build things like Silva or Plone, or things quite different (perhaps custom to their own needs) quickly. And frankly, tools don't sell themselves. People want to see glitz. Hmm, I also see Zope as a tool, as well as a vehicle. So you can say I see it now as a shovel, when it should be an earth mover. They both move earth, but you can move mountains with the earth mover. Now the earth mover is no limo, or fancy sports car with all the bells and whistles. It has the functionality added to get the job done. I think one of the reasons we don't see eye to eye on this is because I don't have the luxury or burden of running a large company. I don't have to provide paychecks to people, so I'm not looking for that quick glitzy fix to generate revenue. You could argue that Zope should be the project/brand with the glitz. But you're now limiting people's choices, because you're turning Zope into a product rather than a tool. I understand the need to keep it simple, so that people can customize it without having to tear things out. I think one can argue that a tool is a product, perhaps it's more of a framework, such as the CMF. Back to the X11/KDE argument. Ever looked at an X11 server running w/out a window manager? That's Zope. But it's wrong to fix the problem by eliminating X11 and merging it with KDE, because then the Gnome (and windowmaker, and sawfish, and...) people would be unhappy. When I use linux I go for the Gnome window manager. I'm a windows guy at heart, and some could argue that linux has way too many choices. I read somewhere that was one of it's downfalls to becoming a desktop standard. Layers provide choice. Sure, they also provide a bit of confusion, but this cost is far outweighed by the benefits. Especially in open source, where people participate because they want to participate, not because they have no other choice. Layers can also provide problems that need to be addressed. You made some excellent points in your other posting. I'm attending a technical college where they have 100 or so computers with windows NT and 5 machines with Linux. Nobody is using the Linux machines, so I'm hard-pressed to see the benefits. Just like with my oracle training the default server is jserver which I believe is based off of tomcat. They won't even let me install Zope, so again I'm hard-pressed to see the benefits you speak of. Constructive confict is good and it helps to flush out some hidden issues. You see it as a X11/KDE thing and I see it as a shovel/earth mover thing. I don't mean to try and speak for anyone else. I love what anybody does for Zope. I just feel that as a shovel it will never be nothing more than someones backyard tool. And I thought you wanted it to be able to hang with the big boys some day? At the very least thanks for hearing me out. Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zopezen.org is slower! Should time be spent on Plone or ZPTspeed?
I know I thought about that for a minute, but I believe MTV was well established when they came out with VH1. But seeing that Zope is not the first app server on the market, it's like that first one I've used. I know its a good thing to see all of these alternate frameworks and/or products, but I'll shut up until I can do more to constructively help out with the zope core. Please don't get me wrong, products like squishdot, CMFZen, and others have steered me towards Zope. They are fine examples of the things that make Zope appealing. But if you really think about what I'm saying you might understand my meaning. Zope--is to MTV and Plone -- is to VH1. Squishdot-- is to CMT. The funny part of your analogy: MTV is the creator and owner of VH1. Now why do you suppose they did that? :^) --Paul Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Plone/Metadata/FUD
From: Max M [EMAIL PROTECTED] Paul Everitt wrote: ...this. How can we listen to you if you're not participating? But to your point: the Zope community does not want, IMO, Zope and CMF merged. Content management is a piece of the Zope pie, not the whole pie. And sooo right you are. If Zope became the CMF or Plone I would drop it in an instance. I'm way too tired and need to hit the sack now, but here is a quote from the URL given to me by Paul Zope 3 will include many of the components and frameworks currently supplied by the CMF. Now I never claimed or stated that the CMF needed to be merged with the Core Zope. Nor did I claim that Plone needed to be merged into Zope. After school tommorrow I will work to clarify my position. What I'm sensing though is double speak, because now it sounds like you want to beef up that shovel, and imho the content to be managed is the dirt. My only response is why wasn't Many of the components and frameworks currently supplied by the CMF included in the core Zope in the first place? Everybody has the right to work on their own thing sure. We would already have a highly extensible Zope3 by now if the time wasn't spent trying to create something else that should have been in the core of Zope in the first place. Let me ask you this, what does an app server serve? I say it servers content, you can call it data, information, results, or whatever. I'd say we would have had alot more products out for Zope had that framework been placed in Zope instead or Forking the content concept with a seperate tool. There are parts of the CMF that we can agree on that don't belong in the core of Zope. And that is where products such as Plone, CMFZen, and Swishdot come into play. What is the problem with my point of view? snip Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Plone/Metadata/FUD
I've been around the Zope/Python scene for many years. One thing I see this group suffer I believe if from the groupthink mentality. Imho Alexander Limi 2 cents worth demonstrated Erik's point perfectly. applaud the effort made with plone. I believe it to be a spoon in which we can spoon feed newbies into the CMS side of the Zope way. Seem my post regarding Zopezen.org. Plone is slow. Zope with CMF is slow... Not as slow as plone, but the issue is with ZPT. There is no way around it Erik is right. Developer time being spent on speeding up plone in order to backport the improvements to Zope/CMF sounds... Well arse backwards. Plone has its place, but I suspect some doublespeak here, lets be realistic about it. I debated a long time ago about CMS being the core of Zope anyway, but lo and behold they pushed on with a CMF product. I see plone as being the same, a product. Now my understanding is that with Zope3, they will roll a lot of the CMF functionality into Zope3 Hmm go figure? All that time wasted on maintaining 2 products Zope/CMF has proven cumbersome at the least imho. Now just imagine if the community would have listened to the lone voice James-then/Erik-now where we would be today. We all know that the decision back then was based on commercial interest for ZC and others trying to market some industry catch phrase. So I hear you Erik, you have these wonderful, bright people working on special interest projects, but not on the core issues that allow Zope to have that strong core that it needs to move it forward. With it being evident in how the Release early/Release often mantra has been thrown to the wayside, I'm left wondering what do I do next with my 2.5.1 site? Do I go the plone, 2.6, 2.7 or 3.0 route? Like I said before, as a qoute from Mr limi you should not mix in the Plone name if you do not intend to follow our guidelines. TM. Plone is a major benefit to the community. Please keep up the good work and effort. I believe that the master minds behind it all should be working to make Zope3 a reality for the plone product and not the other way around, hence you'll screw up mixed-up people like me even more. I hope I'm making some sense with this. I understand that this is free software, but as I community we should work toward making sure that we all can have a voice and benefit from plone/zope 2.5-2.6-2.7-3.0/CMF/Thingy. I'm sure I'll have to take a loan out on this, because it's more than 2 cents worth ;-). Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html At 05:08 PM 10/2/02, Alexander Limi wrote: quote who=Erik Lange In the install-script for MMM Skins, we call it a plone rip-off... I've suggested that we change the product name to Plone skin to Alan, to recognize the fine work of Plone, and to make it clear what it is: A skin that gives your CMF-site a Plone-look, and nothing more... As one of the two designers of the Plone skin, I thought I would send you my 2 cents on this. Most welcome ! :-) Not to be harsh, but calling your skin anything with Plone would just cause confusion, as it has none of the distinguishing marks of the original look, apart from the blue color. Nevertheless people constantly assumes that we use Plone on our sites... so it must have something in common with the Plone 'thingy' ... Check: http://www.mmmanager.org/Members/erla/1018802975267402990/talkback/1018829961 You break almost every consistency rule and design decision in your skin, Yep - the rules set up by Plone - not the rules of CMF ;-) That was what leed us to make the product in the first place... and it is nowhere near being Plone, neither from a usability nor a design perspective. Nope - and we're proud of that ;-) I will not comment further on this, I find this discussion a bit far-fetched. Plone is a separate entity, and you should not mix in the Plone name if you do not intend to follow our guidelines. I agree :-) And we don't intend to follow your guidelines.. sorry.. but why should we ? How about CMF Zlone skin for a name ? ;-) Or CMF BTTF Skin ? BBTF = back to the future ;-) Is it okay that we thanks Plone.org for the inspiration and basic layout in the next release ? Or should we simply just blame it all on Canada ? *ROTFL* Regards, Erik _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zopezen.org is slower! Should time be spent on Plone or ZPT speed?
Hi Ropas-Zopas, Just my 2 cents. I like plone and everything, but should'nt even the plone developers be working on improving and making ZPT faster? Seems to me in their rush to make this Plone product, they say they will make it compatible and faster, but I'm appalled, Yes I said it :-) Appalled at the way things are moving ahead with plone when ZPT is still in its infant stage. To sum it up Plone/CMF has got me hesitant on building with Zope because of the speed issues with ZPT. Sure I can use DTML, but every new cool thing seems to be based on ZPT. And with Zope3 on slated for eventual release, I feel for the community because of the other product diverions ZC can't even speculate a release date for it. Please understand that I'm not trying to complain in so much as I'm trying get and keep the community on a team/group track. I think if we watch what happens with Andy McKay and his efforts with Plone, we may learn a lot. Thanks for your time reading this. Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zopezen.org is slower! Should time be spent on Plone or ZPTspeed?
Hi Andy, Thanks for you kind explanation. I may have been premature in my assessment the new Zopezen.org. I see your point on the various roles individuals can play in the open-source world. I also believe that by you embracing plone so deeply gives the project much more weight and crediblity. Firstly lets address your subject. ZopeZen.org is slower. Why is that? - There is a lot more work being done to render a page in Plone - There is less caching being done, I havent optimized it as much as the old site was - The BSD memory leak in Python 2.1.3 is not helping - More html, javascript and css is being used snip Excuses and issues that need to be addressed no doubt. These are the things that end up making most everything better in the long run. I also need to mention that it's not all that slow to me. I'm using your DTML based cmfZen for one of my sites, instead of plone because of ZPT speed. I liken the situation back to the early days of Music Television(MTV) When they were small, new and up and coming. Their motto was simple I want my MTV hence I want my Zope. You can have all the other channels, ie CMF,Plone, MMMSkins, Transwarp, but what really drove the success of the Music video was MTV. I hope the analogy helps those to see that Zope can be the MTV of the CMS Market. But with some good people switching channels, will Zope still end up a major player in the market? Unless you read the story Swimmy you may not understand my meaning that in this case the community might not win by being a bunch of little fish pretending to be a big fish. All in all I trust andy's commitment, and I look forward to the next release of zopezen. So your suggestion is instead of not using Plone and ZPT in the real world to see how they perform, I should just concentrate on working on ZPT? No, it just seems you've even committed your efforts to plone/ZPT. Seems to me you went from DTML- Plone/ZPT. You know a while back there was even talk to move some of the ZPT functionality to DTML. Now that you've embraced Plone so much that It will be even longer before there are decent instructions on how to get a binary build of the core Zope on windows ;-) snip The Plone project brings people to Zope, it puts Plone in front of users. In the end that means improvements all down the line back to Zope. I beg to differ with you on this. Plone brings people to Plone. And just as much as the other commercial/open-source projects sought to bring users to Zope, those projects are long gone. ie world pilot, spoke.net, metapublisher, etc. They don't even share the same audience it's been said. I'll say again, I think Zope is playing Swimmy when it should be playing MTV and setting the bar for other Content systems. I hope I don't offend anyone. Like I said I agree with Andy. I think we all play an invaluable role in this. I've lost many a jobs because I've insisted on using Zope, That's how much I believe in Zope. Call me a fool, but it is Zope that I believe in, and time spent on anythings else makes me nervous. Whatever you do let's KISS. You know Keep it simple .! Btw how many parts are you going to have to publish for us to understand Plone? I smell commecial interest here. I smell people trying to make that one killer project hoping to make it big, instead of centering around the one vehicle that will help make a bunch of projects big someday. Thanks again for your time. Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Zope-Coders] Proposal: put i18n into 2.6
We had to wait this long, why not wait for a bit longer. I just hope it doesn't give some the excuse to drag it on more. That was one of the things I loved about Zope was Release Early/often mantra. Now with the 2.6 dabacle lasting over 3 months. This better not happen again people :-) We already know how some people get uneasy when I project starts to languish for months. It only hurts the opensource movement. Peace, -- James From: Florent Guillaume [EMAIL PROTECTED] As Jim said, If we want to get this into 2.6, we need to move quickly. I want it in. It's so amazingly useful, that I want it. 2.6 is moving so slow anyway, that I don't see it as a big problem. Best Regards Lennart Regebro, Torped http://www.easypublisher.com/ Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re:adding win32 build inst. Tap Tap Tap is this thing on?
Hi Andy, Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think I was being snubbed for even asking. Silly me for trying to hold them to their statement in the install docs. At least could it be removed as to not mislead people such as me into thinking one is actually forth coming in this lifetime ;-) p.s. I know that it was not explicitly promised, but I figured since its been in the install.txt a while, and there have been many win32 binary releases, it was implicit they would share some tips on that process someday. Peace, -- James I am a Washington State Citizen. Spamming this Email Address may be against Washington State Law Chapter 19.86, and 19.190 RCW. http://www.wa.gov/ago/junkemail/protect.html From: Andy McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: James Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] finally adding win32 build instructions to zope distro Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 11:36:42 -0700 Next you'll be expecting Zope to work on win32, which the 2.6 beta doesnt. Jeez ;) -- Andy McKay Agmweb Consulting http://www.agmweb.ca - Original Message - From: James Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 1:17 PM Subject: [Zope-dev] finally adding win32 build instructions to zope distro Let me start with a smiley face :-) Now please can I get ahold of come instructions or notes on how to build zope on win32. I have ms vc5 can I use it or do I need vc6? I'll even take gcc or ming32 help if someone knows how to build it that way on win32. I've looked at the notes on zope.org and not sure if the current inst notes for the source will help me. Since its been promised for some time in the distro notes :-). Is there an ETA for an official win32 build notes to be included with current Zope releases. thanks, - James _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Some Zope distributions are missing Data.fs.in
Hi all, I'm using win2k and zope2.5.1 and python 2.1.2. And I don't have the file Data.fs.in. I have the others files. Am I suppose to have this file on win32. tia, - James Good to hear that! However, I have received the following report: ---8--- I do have a 'Data.fs', 'Data.fs.lock' and 'Data.fs.tmp' files in the '/usr/lib/zope/var' directory, but no 'Data.fs.in' file. =( Is this bad? My zope is 2.5.1 and I'm using python 2.1.3. I installed zope using the debian apt-get command... _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] when will FSZSQLMethodes be ready for primetime?
Hi Chris, Is there a way to get the fszsqlmethod working on win32 with zope 2.5.1 and cmf1.2 or 1.3? I've placed dtml-comments around the sql. How do I supply the connection id? Thanks in advance, - James Traceback (most recent call last): File C:\Home\lib\python\Products\CMFCore\DirectoryView.py, line 167, in prepareContents ob = t(name, e_filepath, fullname=entry) File C:\Home\lib\python\Products\CMFCore\FSZSQLMethod.py, line 53, in __init__ FSObject.__init__(self, id, filepath, fullname, properties) File C:\Home\lib\python\Products\CMFCore\FSObject.py, line 56, in __init__ self._readFile(0) File C:\Home\lib\python\Products\CMFCore\FSZSQLMethod.py, line 101, in _readFile raise ValueError,The '%s' parameter is required but was not supplied % e ValueError: The 'connection_id' parameter is required but was not supplied From: Jens Vagelpohl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: James Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] when will FSZSQLMethodes be ready for primetime? Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:07:42 -0400 they are already available. chris withers contributed them to the CMF code base. unfortunately, the semantics differ widely from the accepted standards for putting information like parameters at the top of the file. his syntax is all different :/ jens On Friday, August 23, 2002, at 10:42 , James Johnson wrote: Hello, I'm trying to use zsql methods from the filesystem using the filesystem directory view. DTML, ZPT, and python scripts show up but not the .zsql files. Is there a way I can get them working now? Is there a time frame for its release? Thanks, - James _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Very serious problem with Zope 2.4.x !!
This might be related. http://www.securityfocus.com/cgi-bin/archive.pl?id=82start=2001- 12-11end=2001-12-17mid=242328threads=1 Thanks so much for the excellent repeatable test case. Hopefully we can=20 get it fixed soon. There's no workaround for now except for maybe not=20 creating and returning a list with so many elements. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] How to report stuff with the collector down?
Sorry if this is OT. I was looking at the issue schema of the new collector, and I'm wondering how a person would tie in a testcase id to a issue id. Would I use the other_version_info field? tia, -James On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Andy McKay wrote: So what is going on with the Collector, its been what a month now? See http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/CollectorReplacement/Curren tStatus for current status. In fact, i'm hoping to have something to test tomorrow. -- Ken [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] DISCUSS: Community checkins for CVS
Does anyone think this is close enough that I can go ahead and get the bootstrap group (under ten, selected by us) going? I'd like to avoid making them sign and mail an agreement, then do it again if there's substantive changes. Have fun with it. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Getting Unauthorized from __bobo_traverse__.
Don't know if this helps,
http://lists.zope.org/pipermail/zope-dev/2000-December/008524.html
x.unrestrictedTraverse(('','y','z'))
_
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[Zope-dev] python memory error on Windows NT
Error messages are wonderful things aren't they? If you notice other quirky/unexplained behavior with the machine, it could be a RAM problem. You say you have 2 ODBC connections and 2 Access databases. Are they located on the same machine or across a LAN? One hunch is that the problem is that because of network traffic, complex queries, proxy access. Some kind of delay however slight could be causing the ODBC software to fail. The RAM does seem suspect and some other process on your machine could be set to aggressively take RAM space. I would look into the way Zodbc handles network latency and error conditions between 2 or more ODBC databases. I wonder from what I just suggested would it be possible to get this error from Zodbc? python.exe The instruction at "0x1b271a1f" referenced memory at "0x" The memory could not be "read" Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] PythonPiece, perlpiece. You can use the Big PP or the little pp!
Is it not just another piece of the puzzle to figure out? :-) Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: A couple of ZPatterns questions
2. I want to store a list of products, and give each one an arbitrary number of photos. I can use a Product ZClass, subclassed from ObjectManager and store Image objects inside it. Would using the new ZPatterns based EMarket-0.2.0a2 help as a base system. I would also look at the updated information on SkinScript located here. http://www.zope.org//Members/pje/Wikis/ZPatterns/SkinScriptSyntax I hope this helps. Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ToDoManager exampleworks for me on NT/win98
I'm using Zope 2.2.2 and ZPatterns-0-4-2a2(3). Now I'm REALLY looking forward to ZPatterns-0-4-3 ;-) I can't wait until this weekend. Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Zpatterns design questions
I don't think its possible at this point for a working dtml/ttw example. Several people have asked for a simple dtml/ttw only zpatterns based working example, but none of the people who are "getting" Zpatterns finds the time to write a simple example. I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about either. So much for Zen. I think that the flatdatabase product might be a good example for a python based zpatterns framework. http://www.zope.org/Members/itamar/FlatDatabase. I heard that it's possible to have a dtml only zpatterns based example. I would like something like Product specialist addObj Zclass index_html readObj Factory Permission Would this be a correct way to proceed? Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Is it possible for a simple dtml/ttw only zpatterns example?
Is it too complicated? Seems to me it would help out alot of people and help to further the cause. I'm starting to get the feeling that some people are not willing to share in their success. By keeping it complicated and jargon filled prevents me from be able to use it. Is this suppose to be in the spirit of open source? Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Thank you very much SteveS for your efforts and the working zpatterns example.
At last some meat AND potatoes for us feely touchy zpattern people. It opens up a whole new can of worms that I will take _fishing with me this weekend. Long live Steve Spicklemire! Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Re: [Zope-dev] ZPatterns based CD example. Halfway there! Need help
another person had this problem earlier. It may have been because they used quotes like dtml-var "foo". It should be dtml-var foo. I get the same keyerror on foo?. I actually had ended up with the code you just gave from previous post. There must be a problem if others have had keyerrors. My understanding is that by placing the skinscript in the specialist would be a blackbox thing and placing it in the specialists rack with the other providers would be a whitebox thing. So seeing that the index_html is a method of the Class folder is should "see" the artist property. So I need to call the specialist and do a propertyMap() or something on it first? What could cause a keyerror? Seems to me that myPPS has no keys because its empty. I'm using win98,winNT4, win2000, redhat 6.2, zope 2.2.1, ZPatterns 4.2.2Alpha or the latest. I to work all of the platforms. For the most part it's going to to be the win98 platform I'm developing on. I can't wait to pump out my first ZPattern product. Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZPatterns. obj has no getProperty.
Where do I place the ZClass. I've put a dtml method named index_html
in it. I have a specialist and the ZClass in a product folder. is
this the correct way. Here is the code
dtml-var standard_html_header
h2dtml-var title_or_id dtml-var document_title/h2
dtml-let myPPS="propertysheets.get('ShopperData')"
p
email: dtml-var "myPPS.getProperty('email')"
address: dtml-var "myPPS.getProperty('address')"
/p
/dtml-let
dtml-var standard_html_footer
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[Zope-dev] ZPatterns guestbook example
Hello, I ran across a previous post regarding a simple ZPatterns based example you were working on. Did you ever get it working? How about any other basic working example. I understand the concept I'm not sure on the implementation. What would help me the most is a simple step by step guide like this. Create product folder. Place a ZClass derived from dataskin. Go to the default rack and select the ZClass as storage. I understand I have choices where to put the methods depending on what I'm trying to achieve. I just want to "make" ZPatterns store a single property in the dataskin zclass. I've tried putting methods everywhere. I thought you placed them in the specialist and then called specialist.propertysheets.Mysheet.manage_whatever(). Now I'm thinking the specialist goes into the dataskin. I think I should be able to get a simple working example using a specialist,ZClass, and a factory to add the product to the add list. Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Will the SkinScript How-to help me put together something that works?
I can't seem to make ZPatterns do anything. Can somebody help me out. I don't need code help just a basic how-to structure a working example using real objects, like dtml methods, sql methods or whatever. I really want to use and support the Zope and ZPatterns system. Until then I'm going to keep trying. Thanks Jim bo Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Porting EMarket to ZPatterns...possible good example
I overlooked this posting somehow. I've now actually stored
something in a ZClass. This seems to be a good working example.
Thanks so much. I will play with the rest and see what I come up
with.
I had to post it again just in case others missed it like I did.
Thanks Phillip!
OK. that helped a lot. The problem is that when things don't work
as I expect.. I guess (usually with a high degree of success)
that I am off base. Now I've just been experimenting with
this in a simpler 'dtml-only' way just to clarify how it's
supposed to work.
I created a simple ZClass with no ZClass based propertysheets.
(The ZClass is called MyTestSkin, subclass of DataSkin)
I created a specialists that manages instances of this ZClass.
(The specialist is called myTest)
I set up the default rack of myTest with a PlugIn SheetProvider
with SheetNames set to ShopperData.
Based on your last email the addShopper method in 'myTest' looks like
this:
dtml-var standard_html_header
h2dtml-var title_or_id dtml-var document_title/h2
dtml-let newObj=newItem(REQUEST['id'])
dtml-if newObj.propertysheets.manage_addPropertySheet
(id='ShopperData',ns='')
dtml-let newPPS=newObj.propertysheets.get('ShopperData')
dtml-call newPPS.manage_addProperty
(id='email',type='string',value='')
dtml-call newPPS.manage_addProperty
(id='passwd',type='string',value='')
dtml-call newPPS.manage_addProperty
(id='address',type='string',value='')
dtml-call newPPS.manage_changeProperties(REQUEST)
New Shopper Added!
form action=dtml-var myTest.absolute_url()
input type=submit value=OK!
/form
/dtml-let
dtml-else
Cannot add property sheet.
/dtml-if
/dtml-let
dtml-var standard_html_footer
It seems to work OK. Now.. the index_html for my ZClass wants to look
like this:
dtml-var standard_html_header
h2dtml-var title_or_id dtml-var document_title/h2
p
email: dtml-var emailbr
address: dtml-var addressbr
/p
/dtml-let
dtml-var standard_html_footer
But I get 'KeyError on any attribute. I guess I thought that
the SheetProvider would kick in when a request was made for 'email'
and automagically search the instances propertysheets for an
attribute that matched. The following did work however:
dtml-var standard_html_header
h2dtml-var title_or_id dtml-var document_title/h2
dtml-let myPPS=propertysheets.get('ShopperData')
p
email: dtml-var myPPS.getProperty('email')
address: dtml-var myPPS.getProperty('address')
/p
/dtml-let
dtml-var standard_html_footer
This doesn't seem quite right to me... when I use a
GenericAttributeProvider
that talks to a database... I can just say dtml-var foo and it
works.
I'm sure I'm still not getting something... but I don't know what. I
can look
at:
/myTest/a/propertysheets/ShopperData/manage
and it allows me to edit the instance's property sheet through
the web.. I was hoping (and maybe this is really really just
wrong...) that there was some 'central' propertsheet that could
be modified and thereby give all instances new properties.. sorta
like ZClass property sheets...
Anyway.. I'm now off to try SkinScripts with these test cases...
thanks!
-steve
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[Zope-dev] Zdebug not working with mailhost and PTK
I can't send mail using Zdebug and PTK latest versions. Here is the error. exceptions.TypeError Error value: len() of unsized object this part was highlighted as the problem dtml-sendmail mailhost="MailHost" Any suggestions? Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] RE Skinscipt
I think Somebody is working on a short Skinscript tutorial. Hitz N Bitz member http://www.tacomaplace.com http://bbs.tacomaplace.com Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.comGet your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] RE Skinscipt
I think Somebody is working on a short Skinscript tutorial. Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZPatterns again? Propertysheet not available
Here is my code and the error is nips name not found. Any suggestions
dtml-let
ni="['_.newItem(id)']"
Print this:dtml-var ni
nips ="['_.get('GBookProps')']"
dtml-call "nips.propertysheets.manage_addProperty('guest_name',
guest_name, 'string')"
dtml-call "nips.manage_changeProperties(REQUEST)"
/dtml-let
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[Zope-dev] ZPatterns Dataskin base class?
My ZClass only had Dataskin as a base class. I'm not sure what other class should be added to the Dataskin. I"m trying to work off the simple example that PJE mentioned on the IRC chat. Jimbo Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] (no subject)
Ok I'm going over most of the ZPatterns stuff again. It seems simple enough. Yet I can't seem to put a specialist and a dataskin based ZClass in a product folder and get them to do anything persistently. I've been through all of the tutorials and can't seem to get anything to click. You know things like do I create and call a trigger or the propertysheet. When I create the methods inside the specialist I can't access the DataSkin ZClass. I have it setup as the storage class. Is it alright to post these kinds of questions here? Also on the note of subjects and Gen-spec. It seems most of the stuff for Zope like the PTK and ZODB stuff I see is class based and not whole/part patterns stuff. How about a simple Diagram from those that understand it in Coad OOA terms. I know that there is one already but how about in terms of the very basic objects like a folder, specialist, and Zclass. Thanks, Jimbo Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] ZPattens Question? Guestbook example
Hello,
I'm trying to get the basic app building concept down with ZPatterns.
Forgive me if I'm way off the mark. I'm building off the guest book
example from the new Zope book. What I've done is created a product
folder call Gbook. Inside I've created a dtml method index_html, a
specialist named Guestbook and a Dataskin instance called
Guestbook_entry. I have one property sheet named GBookProps defined
for dataskin ZClass. Instead of storing the guestbook entries in
documents I'm trying to store them using the dataskin database.
In the Specialist(Guestbook) I have 3 methods addEntry,
addEntryAction, and addEntryForm
When I call addEntry I get.
TypeError
sequence-index must be an integer
I thought I was so close to understanding me not understanding. :)
It seems to me that the only way to produce a ZPatterns based
product is to do it from python.
How about this, should I be trying to add entries this way?
dtml method addEntry
dtml-var standard_html_header
center
h2 Inserting new Guest Book Table Info Item!/h2
dtml-let id='entry_%d' % len(self.objectIds())
ni=newItem(Guestbook)
/dtml-let
dtml-call ni.propertysheets.manage_addPropertySheet
(id='GBookProps', ns='')
dtml-let nips=ni.propertysheets.get('GBookProps')
dtml-call nips.manage_addProperty('guest_name', guest_name,
'string')
dtml-call nips.manage_changeProperties(REQUEST)
/dtml-let
form action=index_html
input type=submit value=OK
/form
/center
Thanks,
Jimbo
Hitz N Bitz member
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[Zope-dev] Re: Re: [Zope-dev] ZPattens Question? Guestbook example
I wondered why my post looked so bad. Thanks.
I wonder if you are planning on releasing some UML stuff related to
ZPatterns and Zope? I use a Freeware product called DOME. It has
support for UML and COAD-YOURDON OOA. I'm don't have any formal
training so I'm still trying to figure out what it all means.
If you have any example diagrams that you can share that would be
most kind.
Here is the code I was trying to use in the first place.
h2 Inserting new Guest Book Table Info Item!/h2
dtml-let id="'entry_%d' % len(self.objectIds())"
ni="Guestbook.newItem(id)"
dtml-call "ni.propertysheets.manage_addPropertySheet
(id='GBookProps', ns='')"
nips="ni.propertysheets.get('GBookProps')"
dtml-call "nips.manage_addProperty('guest_name', guest_name,
'string')"
dtml-call "nips.manage_changeProperties(REQUEST)"
/dtml-let
You can use ZPatterns from DTML alone quite easily. However, some
things
are easier from an external method or a python method.
I hope it happens soon.
Jimbo
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