Re: [Zope-dev] AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 10/8/07, David Pratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dieter. Zope 2 is one application among many dependent upon zope 3. Zope 3 is different software than zope 2. It has a community of pure zope 3 developers (that I don't believe the suggestion of folding the lists together adequately

AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev andzope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Lennart -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Lennart Regebro [...] Again, these lists are about the development of, not development with. Can you explain why do you think this makes a difference? Regards Roger Ineichen

Re: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev andzope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 10/8/07, Roger Ineichen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lennart -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Lennart Regebro [...] Again, these lists are about the development of, not development with. Can you explain why do you

[Zope3-dev] Re: ZCML-Directive for DirectoryResource factories?

2007-10-08 Thread Christian Zagrodnick
On 2007-10-05 14:30:14 +0200, Fred Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Meant to send this to the list... On 9/18/07, Christian Zagrodnick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only thing is, no I'm not going to register every file in ZCML. I want to use the zc.resourcelibrary. The follwoing makes it

AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev andzope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Lennart Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev andzope-dev lists [...] Can you explain why do you think this makes a difference? Because developing WITH Zope2 and Zope 3 are very different. The development OF Zope 2 and Zope 3 are not, sincem as mentioned, the

[Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Philipp von Weitershausen
Oliver Marx wrote: Here is what I told my mother: Zope 3 is a web development technology that focuses on code reuse, automated testing and security. - Code reuse: we can do more in less time. - Automated testing: Code reuse makes it a much have. - And with automated testing we can actually

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Stephan Richter wrote: On Sunday 07 October 2007 17:13, Martijn Faassen wrote: I'm not saying an ecosystem approach is bad, if that's what Zope 3 wants to be. I do think that such an approach needs to be supplemented by a framework approach (and I've been putting work into one way to do that).

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Jim Fulton
I'm not sure that library or collection of libraries is the right term for what we want to be. I think we've been using it because it stands in sharp contrast to application, which, BTW, isn't exactly what Zope 2 is. I think these terms were useful to make some points, but neither is

[Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Oliver Marx
Yup. Now let's drop the 3 in that sentence, because all of this applies to Zope software as a whole. This is, in fact, one way to sum up the way the Zope project as a whole works. I have no problem with that. The simpler the better. As long as the new comers learn Zope 3 and not Zope 2.

[Zope3-dev] Re: zope.error is a 3.5 egg, but is needed by 3.4.x releases

2007-10-08 Thread Max M
Martijn Faassen skrev: We've worked with eggs for a few months now, with Grok. I can report that I believe the egg situation is currently massively unusable for almost all Zope 3 users except, from now on, Grok users, as two people spent half the week in resolving this problem and figuring

[Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Philipp von Weitershausen
On 8 Oct 2007, at 13:30 , Oliver Marx wrote: Yup. Now let's drop the 3 in that sentence, because all of this applies to Zope software as a whole. This is, in fact, one way to sum up the way the Zope project as a whole works. I have no problem with that. The simpler the better. As long as the

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Uwe Oestermeier
Oliver Marx [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have looked at Grok. I love the ideas. But it feels like its a little too much convention over configuration. I do not hate zcml. I hate to write zcml. If there was a way to auto generate zcml and way to overwrite that zcml when needed - then I would be a

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread David Pratt
Hi Uwe. I have been thinking of something similar and posted on the list a couple of weeks back: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-September/023653.html I want the zcml to be generated with a switch on zc.buildout so all configuration is auto generated. Currently site.zcml is done

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Philipp von Weitershausen
On 8 Oct 2007, at 15:14 , David Pratt wrote: Hi Uwe. I have been thinking of something similar and posted on the list a couple of weeks back: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope3-dev/2007-September/023653.html I want the zcml to be generated with a switch on zc.buildout so all

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Stephan Richter
On Monday 08 October 2007 06:56, Martijn Faassen wrote: Because we have endless confusion between Zope 3 the ecosystem and Zope 3 the web application framework. For me it is exactly the same. Zope 3 is a Web application server. Zope 2 uses many components of the Zope 3 Web application server.

AW: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Philipp Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3 [...] Soon, we will change Grok so that it emits configuration actions, rather than doing the registrations right away. That way, you will still be able to inspect what exactly Grok is doing (for example by dumping

[Zope3-dev] Re: AW: Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Roger Ineichen wrote: Hi Philipp Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3 [...] Soon, we will change Grok so that it emits configuration actions, rather than doing the registrations right away. That way, you will still be able to inspect what exactly Grok is doing (for

AW: [Zope3-dev] Re: AW: Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Martijn Betreff: [Zope3-dev] Re: AW: Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3 [...] Grok *aims* to support reusing bits of it. It hasn't reached this goal yet as we focused on making it work first, but has been an explicit seocndary goal from the beginning last year. We need to do some

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, Stephan, I tried to reply to your points but I realized I was getting lost in a sea of semantics and that it wasn't useful. The Zope 3 web application server is not primarily what the Zope 3 project appears to be developing. I strongly suspect there are more users of Zope 3 technology

Re: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev andzope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 10/8/07, Roger Ineichen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your mail also means, we can't avoid to have Zope 2 topics on the zope3-dev list because Zope 2 is going to move to Zope 3 and we have to exchange information. Doesn't matter how the list is called. Exactly. -- Lennart Regebro:

[Zope3-dev] Re: I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Fulton wrote: Any objections? This would basically involve retiring the zope3-dev list and moving zope3 developers to the zope-dev list. +1. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver

Re: AW: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Philipp von Weitershausen
On 8 Oct 2007, at 15:52 , Roger Ineichen wrote: Betreff: Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3 [...] Soon, we will change Grok so that it emits configuration actions, rather than doing the registrations right away. That way, you will still be able to inspect what exactly Grok is

[Zope3-dev] Re: AW: Re: The elevator speech for Zope 3

2007-10-08 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hey, On 10/8/07, Philipp von Weitershausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] ... emit configuration actions instead of component registrations directly. This is underway, started at the sprint last week by Godefroid Chapelle. Great! Where can this work be seen? Good

[Zope3-dev] Splitting files or packages

2007-10-08 Thread Philipp von Weitershausen
Since it has come up a few times on the checkins list recently, I'd like to reiterate an important point: When you split files or packages, you should always use 'svn cp' and not simply copy the bare files. Because if you simply copy the files from a checkout to another one, version history

[Zope3-dev] Re: Known-good-sets problem

2007-10-08 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martijn Faassen wrote: Hey, Another point of feedback: I saw Stephan's mail on a (partially new) toolchain and somewhat extensive workflow on using it. I'm a bit surprised a toolchain is necessary and that the workflow is so involved. With

Re: [Zope-dev] AW: [Zope3-dev] I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Dieter Maurer
David Pratt wrote at 2007-10-8 00:21 -0300: Zope 2 is one application among many dependent upon zope 3. Zope 3 is different software than zope 2. I do not argue with you that Zope3 is different software than Zope 2. What I argue about is Zope 2 is an application. I have seen hundreds of

[Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Fulton wrote: On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:25 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On 10/6/07, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - We need to decide what a Zope 3 release is (or maybe multiple flavors). I favor copying the linux experiences, but have an

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Stephan Richter
On Monday 08 October 2007 11:06, Martijn Faassen wrote: Stephan, I tried to reply to your points but I realized I was getting lost in a sea of semantics and that it wasn't useful. I agree I'd like to see a separation between what you consider to be not only closely allied but *identical*:

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Stephan Richter
On Monday 08 October 2007 15:09, Tres Seaver wrote: Presuming agreement on the known good set (KGS) term, I would think that we have two candidates for what makes up platform releases Frozen Releases I started commenting this section until I saw the one below. I personally

AW: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases?

2007-10-08 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Tres Cc: zope3-dev Development Betreff: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 releases? [...] A frozen release would consist of: - A single, frozen KGS (index pages cannot change after release). Can we use a flag on the server side e.g. in the index page, so nobody is able to upload files if we use

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] AW: I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Philipp von Weitershausen
Dieter Maurer wrote: David Pratt wrote at 2007-10-8 00:21 -0300: Zope 2 is one application among many dependent upon zope 3. Zope 3 is different software than zope 2. I do not argue with you that Zope3 is different software than Zope 2. What I argue about is Zope 2 is an application. I have

[Zope3-dev] Re: [Zope-dev] AW: I'd lobe to merge the zope3-dev and zope-dev lists

2007-10-08 Thread Baiju M
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Waiting-for-this-discussion-to-die-down-ly I just counted votes here, there was 11 positive votes and 2 negative votes. +1 (Baiju M) +100 (Philipp von Weitershausen) +1 (Michael R. Bernstein) +1 Lennart Regebro +1 Andreas Jung +1 Jens Vagelpohl +1 Chris