No it ISN'T outside "the" building.  It's attached and by definition it's a 
building and it doesn’t matter if it's open or not.   If a fire starts under 
this structure it could spread to the building it's attached to easily - or are 
you 100% certain that a Boys and Girls Club is going to keep all communicating 
doors closed all the time and facing windows closed?  You're fixating on 
Chapter 8 of the standard but this isn't a sprinkler question.   NFPA 13 
doesn't require sprinklers in buildings, the building code does.  Don't take my 
word for it - go look it up in the IBC.    This is a building.

SML

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On 
Behalf Of bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 2:07 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: Exterior Play Area

It dosent say those things because it's outside the building Steve.
It's a shade structure, like you meant. Sprinklers would just make a big mess. 
Open on three sides and non-comb means no life safety issue and if that's where 
it starts it won't get inside before the FD gets there. These 12-17 year old 
Boys and Girls probably started it, thinking some Smores sounded good.

Brad


Quoting Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>:

> Y'all need to read the definition of "Building" in the Building Code:
>
> "Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use 
> or occupancy."
>
> It doesn't mention walls or doors, it doesn't mention construction 
> type or combustibility of materials.  So the area in question IS a
> building.   That by John's description is ATTACHED to another  
> (sprinklered) building and is used for occupancy by children where 
> there is a measurable fire load (whether or not it is a profound fire 
> load, there is one).
>
> So once again, from the top:  NFPA 13 doesn't exclude this area 
> because it's occupied and has or potentially has combustibles below
> it.  The building code defines it as a building.   Why don't we have  
> to sprinkler it?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum
> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of 
> bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 12:10 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Subject: Re: Exterior Play Area
>
> I vote no sprinklers required -- open and noncombustible- the 
> rockinghorse on a spring is like a newspaper machine - there will 
> always be just one of them- not one today and twelve tomorrow.
>
> Brad.
>
> Quoting Steve Leyton <st...@protectiondesign.com>:
>
>> 8.15.7.5.
>>
>> From: Sprinklerforum
>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of 
>> John Irwin
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 11:10 AM
>> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
>> Subject: RE: Exterior Play Area
>>
>> I can appreciate your opinion, but I need a code reference.  😉
>>
>> John Irwin
>> DynaFire Inc. – “Same Day – Next Day”
>>
>> From: Sprinklerforum
>> <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum
>> - boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of Steve Leyton
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 1:47 PM
>> To:
>> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerfo...@lists.fi
>> r
>> esprinkler.org>
>> Subject: RE: Exterior Play Area
>>
>> Assuming there’s play equipment there (fire load) and knowing that 
>> there are kids occupying the space, I wouldn’t call this an
>> “exterior projection”.   It’s a shad structure with occupancy below
>> and IMO requires sprinkler protection.
>>
>> SML
>>
>> From: Sprinklerforum
>> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of 
>> John Irwin
>> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 10:42 AM
>> To:
>> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerfo...@lists.fi
>> r
>> esprinkler.org>
>> Subject: Exterior Play Area
>>
>> Protecting a light hazard Boys and Girls Club. I excluded an 
>> exterior, but covered, attached and open play area. Non-combustible.
>> It’s a couple thousand square feet. I excluded using NFPA 13 2013
>> 8.15.7
>>
>> Client is telling me that he her other fire sprinkler guys telling 
>> him he needs sprinklers in that areas.
>>
>> What say you?
>>
>> [cid:image001.png@01D3D318.846AE470]
>>
>>
>> John Irwin
>> Fire Sprinkler Specialist
>> DynaFire, Inc. – “Same Day – Next Day”
>> 727-282-9243 – Cell
>>
>> “A customer is the most important visitor on our premises. He is not 
>> dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an interruption 
>> on our work. He is the purpose of it. He is not an outsider on our 
>> business. He is a part of it. We are not doing him a favour by 
>> serving him. He is doing us a favour by giving us an opportunity to do so.”
>
>
>
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