Hi Mark

Thanks for your comments. I agree Mediawiki would be a good option, and
like the idea of dividing into the three audiences you mentioned (I did
something somewhat similar for TW for the rest of us), though I think some
items like list filters and customization should be for both end users and
non-developer power users.

Dave

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:45 AM, 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki <
tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I think a MediaWiki or similar solution would be a great thing. MediaWiki
> has a listing of MW sites available, including at least one that says its
> free and add-free (but who knows what the details are?). Other sites are
> fairly inexpensive if data can be kept under 10G.
>
> The question is, is all the stuff currently in TiddlyWiki now technically
> copyrighted, or can it be ported to another working environment?
>
> The current system of documentation discourages participation. I've
> written documentation and tutorials for other products, and wouldn't mind
> doing so for TW, but not tethered the way the current system is.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 11:28:57 PM UTC-8, Riz wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Ok, so this is a post I have been planning to make for long. Wear your
>> seat-belts.
>>
>> Obligatory warning: The following comments are made out of a sincere
>> desire to see this platform getting better and appealing to more people.
>> Remember that I have no personal gains from writing this.
>>
>> The thread is missing the point of Josiah's post. The need for a
>> co-ordinated effort to create community documentation.
>>
>> | It's like buying a book on first aid and complaining that there's no
>> chapter on removing kidneys.
>>
>> TW5's competition is not evernote. People look for Tiddlywiki when they
>> already left behind evernote and are looking for alternatives. So from the
>> scores of alternatives available, why would one choose TW5?
>>
>> TW5 as a first aid solution is not the main part of its charm. We have to
>> admit its limitations compared to the competing solutions. Saving for one.
>> Telling people you can use this as a single page html anywhere is
>> wonderful, as long as you have firefox and a plugin is not equally so. The
>> impending death of Tiddlychrome will be effectively ruling out SPA use in
>> Chrome unless you are game to put up with a less pleasing user experience.
>>
>> Also to be mentioned is the inability to use javascript. I understand
>> that there are hurdles wrt security (not really, but for the sake of this
>> post, let us pretend that I understand.). Nevertheless this is a
>> disadvantage a lot of other wikis do not have. [Meanwhile if I use a TW
>> just in my computer in the HTML format without having to worry about
>> security, can I enable the js scripts? There are a lot of awesome js
>> scripts out there and waiting for someone to adapt those to TW undermines
>> the whole standing-on-the-shoulders-of-giants approach. Enablejs plugin
>> is not working,:-( ]
>>
>>  If people wanted a simple note taking wiki, they could use zim or Raneto
>> or even wordpress, and for extensive purposes there are bigger projects
>> like foswiki or Xwiki or Twiki.
>>
>>  As someone who spend quite some time testing several solutions listed in
>> wikimatrix.com, I can say this with a level of confidence that the
>> advantage of TW5 is its flexibility. It gives you a scalpel that can cut
>> out a make a simple slash or remove the kidney (enough with the medical
>> analogies. That would be the last one.)
>>
>>  However, while TW5 shows you the sky, it currently fails you give you
>> enough wings (told you, no more medical analogies). The other day I was
>> looking for a solution to export a list to a text file. The text file would
>> show up with the content <$list filter="[tag[HelloThere]]"/> - which is
>> obviously not what I wanted. I am not ego-centric enough to believe that I
>> am the first one to have this question. Someone might have, and he would
>> have found a solution. It might be even in this group, I just have to spend
>> 20-25 mins trying to sift through the chaff and get to the solution. Of
>> course you can ask the group, you people will graciously put in time and
>> effort to answer. Nevertheless, having to ask such a possibly simple
>> question, over and over again is a dehumanizing experience. Not a whole lot
>> will subscribe to that.
>>
>>  This is the point where I have this question: Why is Tiddlyverse so
>> averse to the idea of setting up an organized community documentation?
>>
>>  Jeremy Ruston is a single human being who has as much time as any of us.
>> Besides being the main developer of TW5 which he does not use to earn his
>> bread, expecting him to take point on documentation and creating tutorials
>> is seriously unfair.
>>  It has been quite some time since Erwan outlined a commendable model for
>> TW5 documentation and Mat raised the issue in an earnest manner. Has there
>> been much progress since then? The Wikidocs group is dead and dry as, well,
>> whatever is dead and dry.
>>
>> Now here is a couple of proposals.
>> 1. Create a mediawiki to document TW5. (gasp, audible murmurs and
>> chattering of pitchforks). TW5 is not supporting collaborative editing and
>> user approval as of now. It was not intended for such an aim if I
>> understand it correctly. That being so, there is no harm or shame in using
>> other services. The approved users can create documentation which will
>> remove the burden from a single person. There are services that will host a
>> mediawiki for free.
>> 2. Create something of the nature of Tiddlydrive where users can simply
>> submit a plain text write-up which will be incorporated to the wiki after
>> being reviewed by a subgroup of moderators. This actually is more demanding
>> than the first option, but it has the advantage that people does not have
>> to learn to clone-commit-push-and-pull.
>>
>> Documentation is tough to come by. Demanding that a user should learn the
>> ways of github which is not the most user-friendly solutions, is akin to
>> actively discouraging the user submissions except from a niche. There are
>> scores of cases, examples, tweaks and customisations that has no place in
>> the official website. Nor is its place scattered in a 100 different TWs or
>> 1000 different posts.
>>
>> sincerely
>> Someone who took 2 months to realize that you can actually change the
>> color of site title.
>>
>> PS: For those who put up with the long read, here is a JSON. It will set
>> your sidebar search field to only activate the search upon pressing enter
>> key. Will help if you have a large wiki and do not want to reload the
>> search with every keystroke.
>>
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-- 
David Gifford
Christian Reformed World Missions, Mexico City

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