David,

I understand the value in picking the tool you need but I think this may 
actually be a gap we need to fill in TiddlyWiki. Even a rudimentary 
outliner, to help bridge the gap between tiddler and texts (in the book 
sense).

Regards
Tony

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 11:25:53 PM UTC+10, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Seems like a lot of effort when there are better tools for writing and 
> outlining, like Dynalist or Workflowy.
>
> David Gifford
> Mexico team leader, Mexico City
>
> *Resonate Global Mission*
> *Engaging People. Embracing Christ.*
> A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
> resonateglobalmission.org
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 8:17 AM, JD <jologsd...@gmail.com <javascript:>> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tony, you mean, like a full-blown outline, right? 
>>
>> If that's so, I think, maybe, we can use the TOC template for this. And 
>> instead of transcluding the title, we transclude the body of the text 
>> (while still following the tag-tree structure). What do you think? 
>>
>> My contribution in this will be slow during the weekdays (9 - 5 job + 
>> lots of overtime gets in the way)
>>
>> This is exciting stuff. I'm thinking of using this to write a novelette. 
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 9:17:59 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>
>>> JD,
>>>
>>> Should we be using a new thread to collaborate otherwise we are somewhat 
>>> hijacking the thread?
>>>
>>> Of note is I am using filters such as "[tag[WhitePaper]]" where it would 
>>> be nice to either include all tiddlers tagged by the tiddlers that are 
>>> tagged by WhitePaper like the Table of Contents macro
>>>
>>> I think there would be value being able to specify more than one filter 
>>> as you suggest.
>>>
>>> For the moment I am just thinking will the second filter be wrapped 
>>> inside the first?
>>>
>>> Imagine filter1 filter2 filter3 = chapter section paragraph
>>>
>>> So when listing paragraphs we only want to be listing those with the 
>>> same chapter and section
>>> And ideally each filter will provide the sort order.
>>>
>>> I will return to this soon.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 10:24:26 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey Tony, I was thinking of adding "subtiddler" as another optional 
>>>> parameter, then going along these lines:
>>>>
>>>> <$list filter="$filter$" variable="parItem">
>>>> <$transclude tiddler=<<parItem>> subtiddler="$subtiddler$"/>
>>>> </$list>
>>>>
>>>> As you can see, I'm not quite imaginative enough to think of more than 
>>>> that 😅. Please do share your ideas, and use the code present on the 
>>>> demo site to build something better (we can build them together, too, I 
>>>> just don't know how collabs work).
>>>>
>>>> I'm also still mulling over using the Navigator widget, which requires 
>>>> the creation of additional tiddlers, with the absolute pro of not having 
>>>> to 
>>>> rely on temporary tiddlers... 🤔
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:30:47 AM UTC+9, TonyM wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> JD,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just tried this and it is very helpful. Thanks for the demo.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just applied it to a list of issues (items tagged Issues) and 
>>>>> realised It would be helpful to list the sub tiddlers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have more ideas and some ideas about how to approach it, if you were 
>>>>> to develop it further but as you say this conversation is already under 
>>>>> way.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems a somewhat simpler approach is down this path.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:09:28 PM UTC+10, JD wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hastily created a wordy little macro that does the same thing, 
>>>>>> before I read your post, and now I feel stupid lol 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still, I created a demo for the "paragraphs" macro, as seen here 
>>>>>> http://j.d.paragraphs.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the navigator widget(?) method does look cleaner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EDIT: corrected URL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:45 PM UTC+9, zemoxian wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's a barebones template to start from:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <$navigator story="PE:story" history="PE:history">
>>>>>>> {{$:/core/ui/Buttons/new-tiddler}}
>>>>>>> <$list filter="[list[PE:story]]" template="$:/core/ui/ViewTemplate" 
>>>>>>> editTemplate="$:/core/ui/EditTemplate" 
>>>>>>> emptyMessage={{$:/config/EmptyStoryMessage}} />
>>>>>>> </$navigator>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  You can create custom templates to replace $:/core/ui/EditTemplate 
>>>>>>> and $:/core/ui/EditTemplate with simpler templates with the 
>>>>>>> required functionality.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> For example the view template could be as simple as:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <div>
>>>>>>> {{||$:/core/ui/Buttons/edit}}
>>>>>>> {{||move-up button}} {{||move-down button}}
>>>>>>> <div><$view field=title /></div>
>>>>>>> <div>
>>>>>>> <$transclude />
>>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>>> </div>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  The move-up and down buttons would allow you to move paragraphs or 
>>>>>>> sections up and down.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 9:58:26 PM UTC-4, zemoxian wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You could combine a navigator widget with a list widget and a 
>>>>>>>> couple of templates to manipulate multiple tiddlers from one tiddler.  
>>>>>>>> This 
>>>>>>>> is actually how the story works in the PageTemplate.  I've done this 
>>>>>>>> in the 
>>>>>>>> past while fiddling with stuff.  The navigator widget handles 
>>>>>>>> manipulation 
>>>>>>>> of the story tiddler by handling messages from buttons on the view and 
>>>>>>>> edit 
>>>>>>>> templates for the sub tiddlers.  You can create, edit, delete, save, 
>>>>>>>> etc.  
>>>>>>>> You can also create buttons with list operations to sort or reorder 
>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>> tiddlers. (I.e. move up 1, move down 1, move to top, move to bottom, 
>>>>>>>> etc.)  
>>>>>>>> So, it is possible to keep each sub tiddler as a single paragraph with 
>>>>>>>> its 
>>>>>>>> own title, tags, and fields and reorder them as needed.  It just 
>>>>>>>> depends on 
>>>>>>>> what features you want for a particular story editing app. It is a 
>>>>>>>> little 
>>>>>>>> tedious creating an app like this because you need to create the 
>>>>>>>> various 
>>>>>>>> templates and buttons, etc.
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 12:46:29 PM UTC-4, Vytas wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think it is not that important, whether you segment one tiddler 
>>>>>>>>> by its fields (if their content can indeed contain longer texts, 
>>>>>>>>> links, 
>>>>>>>>> images..), or by creating new tiddlers within the primary tiddler, AS 
>>>>>>>>> LONG 
>>>>>>>>> AS you have the ability to EDIT those segments within the edit-window 
>>>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>>>> that primary tiddler. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indeed, if you are writing a coherent text, tagging separate 
>>>>>>>>> paragraphs by excising those paragraphs into different tiddlers makes 
>>>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>>>> editing very cumbersome: you have to jump to those new tiddlers to 
>>>>>>>>> edit 
>>>>>>>>> them and then come back to the primary tiddler to see the integral 
>>>>>>>>> result. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
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