Well, as you can tell, Apache OpenOffice folk are subscribed to some of these lists. It is helpful to make the suggestions about ooo-users on ooo-users of course. And I must remember to collect the actions I have given myself somewhere that won't be overlooked and forgotten.
With regard to posts from non-subscribers (at ooo-users, not here - I have no idea what happens here): The first post, at least from a non-subscriber does go to a moderator. The purpose is to suppress spam and clear misplaced posts. I respond to some, but I don't know there is a moderator practice. The moderators can talk to each other and agree on a practice though. Because this is manual work, something simple is needed. I don't believe the moderator can alter or mark the post in any way. I will have to check about that. If it is possible to indicate that the first post from someone is as a non-subscriber, that might be useful. But the odds of automatically testing and marking messages from unsubscribe-though-approved posters is probably not an option. A simple etiquette is to always assume a post is from a non-subscriber. Another way would be to fix "Reply All" so that it goes to the list and the poster, as is happening with this reply to a post by Marco. I'm not going to get into anything about Apache governance other than to point out that it is all volunteer-driven. Messing with the shared infrastructure doesn't happen without the necessary experts coming forward and doing the work and maintaining the result. There is no corporate sponsor driving the infrastructure and the necessary technical support, etc. So unless an Apache project has folks who can do the work and also assure continuing support, it doesn't happen. Sometimes there are shared resources that are maintained by cooperation among several projects. So, "why can't someone just ..." requests don't get very far. It is definitely a flat, meritocratic operation. An example of this happened for Apache OpenOffice. To preserve the operation of the OpenOffice.org web site wiki and forums, there are now the only MediaWiki and phpBB servers running that Apache has ever hosted. This took a great deal to accomplish and the sustaining of those services depends on committers from the Apache OpenOffice podling. Unfortunately, there was no way to accomplish anything similar for the mailing lists and e-mail forwarding. - Dennis -----Original Message----- From: M. Fioretti [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 00:47 To: [email protected] Subject: [users] Re: List Migration Prospects (was RE: Re: Hi) On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 08:23:59 AM +0000, Mike Scott wrote: > I'll make the suggestion again that I've made before I think it's useless to make any suggestion on this list that will be shutdown soon anyway. It has to go on the new list. Besides, it has to be compliant with the general rules and procedures for these things in Apache. With the migration, OpenOffice won't be its own self-directed shown anymore, so it may very well be that there's nothing to discuss, as in Apache saying: "do as EVERY other FOSS project has handled its own online support since the '90s and shut up". > - how about arranging that subscribed users get to post to the list, > unsubscribed get their queries directed to some sort of 'bot... the one major problem with OO support has always been this very wish to provide a real online help-desk service (something for which there is plenty of specific software tools) with a software tool designed to do something completely different, that is a mailing list manager. Bayes-based autoresponders won't do much in this case, they would work only with messages containing words pertinent to the actual problem. But the bulk of people you're trying to help here are exactly people who are unable to properly describe what problem they have, unless they're forced to go through a form that asks very specific questions Which is what helpdesk software does, not mailing list managers or email autoresponders, see above. If you want to provide that service, you must: - NOT use mailing lists (oh, and online fora would be almost equally not useful) - find people willing to staff an online help desk, that is willing to learn how to use its software I've already summarized everything else I had to say on this topic here: http://stop.zona-m.net/2010/11/a-proposal-for-effective-volunteer-friendly-user-support-in-libreoffice/ (I put that page online exactly to not post the same stuff every time) Marco -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] For additional commands send email to [email protected] with Subject: help
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