I agree that secularism is in crisis, but this doesn't mean we must return to a theocratic rule which is the danger implied by movements like radical orthodoxy. Secularism neeeds a more anthropological (mytho-poetic) foundation rather than the narrow structures of a particular science or religion.
Harry On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Harry Veeder <hveeder...@gmail.com> wrote: > FYI > > Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. > > http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ > > <<In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a > five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond > Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to > social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, > once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a > movement called "Radical Orthodoxy." IDEAS producer David Cayley > profiles John Milbank. > The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will > have some religion - the only question is which religion. British > theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in > Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he > says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means > something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning > - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical > Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues > have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with > authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a > spiritually flattened world.>> > > > Harry > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones and >> zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. The >> ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. >> >> Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron >> chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain cells >> and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never understand >> how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs to >> understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an >> understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and >> techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. >> >> Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system from >> the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows require >> understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code >> level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? Why >> would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the individual >> ones and zeros of the neurons? >> >> You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human soul. >> This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid acknowledging the >> creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the human >> blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the fallacies of >> Darwinian Evolution. >> >> >> >> Jojo >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Patrick Ellul >> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >> >> If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows >> installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and >> understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as ones >> and zeros on a memory device. >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <jth...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the soul >>> is doom to failure from the onset. >>> >>> Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed the >>> Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern the >>> operation of a PC from your understanding of the >>> hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be severely >>> incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls the >>> behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. >>> >>> On the same token, experts in >>> Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never hope to >>> completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - the >>> soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain cells/neurons, >>> etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to understand >>> the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The brain >>> is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is the >>> mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. >>> >>> Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of these >>> philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at best severely >>> incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. >>> >>> If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote the >>> software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better understanding of >>> human behavior. >>> >>> >>> Jojo >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" <hohlr...@gmail.com> >>> To: <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >>> >>> >>> >>>> I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation of >>>> consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, >>>> or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir >>>> Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who >>>> specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a >>>> model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted >>>> to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when under. >>>> Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the >>>> Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the >>>> curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the >>>> superposition. >>>> >>>> Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the >>>> structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can >>>> influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea >>>> embedded in the geometry of spacetime. >>>> >>>> Needless to say, they have many critics. :-) >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick >> >> www.tRacePerfect.com >> The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! >> The quickest puzzle ever! >>
