Myth, poetry and dreams tell us the meaning of life. The direction of science and society is infleunced by them. Harry
On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Giovanni Santostasi <[email protected]> wrote: > Mytho-poetic? > There is enough beauty and poetry in science as it is. > We don't need made up stories. > Giovanni > > > > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Harry Veeder <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I agree that secularism is in crisis, but this doesn't mean we must >> return to a theocratic rule which is the danger implied by movements >> like radical orthodoxy. >> Secularism neeeds a more anthropological (mytho-poetic) foundation >> rather than the narrow structures of a particular science or religion. >> >> Harry >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Harry Veeder <[email protected]> wrote: >> > FYI >> > >> > Seevn part radio show called Myth of the Secular. This about part six. >> > >> > >> > http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/episodes/2012/10/29/the-myth-of-the-secular-part-6/ >> > >> > <<In 1990 British theologian John Milbank published a >> > five-hundred-page manifesto called Theology and Social Theory: Beyond >> > Secular Reason. The book argued that theology should stop deferring to >> > social theories that are just second-hand theology and declare itself, >> > once again, the queen of the sciences. The book led, in time, to a >> > movement called "Radical Orthodoxy." IDEAS producer David Cayley >> > profiles John Milbank. >> > The English poet William Blake once wrote that humanity must and will >> > have some religion - the only question is which religion. British >> > theologian John Milbank agrees. A purely secular society, in >> > Milbank's view, is simply not viable. The only choice in our time, he >> > says, is between religion and nihilism. But religion for him means >> > something more than just a private moment with God on a Sunday morning >> > - it means a way of life. Milbank belongs to a movement called Radical >> > Orthodoxy. Under its banner, he and a group of like-minded colleagues >> > have argued that modern Western societies have lost touch with >> > authentic Christianity and, as a result, are now living in a >> > spiritually flattened world.>> >> > >> > >> > Harry >> > >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Jojo Jaro <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> You've made my point better than I. For when you are studying the ones >> >> and >> >> zeros wherever they may persist, you are in fact studying the software. >> >> The >> >> ones and zeros are not hardware, they're software. >> >> >> >> Much like the soul. We can spend a hundred lifetimes studying neuron >> >> chemical reactions, electrical impulses, cellular structure of brain >> >> cells >> >> and other psychological theories and mumbo-jumbo; we will never >> >> understand >> >> how Human consciousness works. To understand the human soul, one needs >> >> to >> >> understand its creator. Much like studying the software requires an >> >> understanding of Microsoft Software Engineer's design methods and >> >> techniques, in fact, a understanding of the man himself. >> >> >> >> Tell me, can you reverse engineer the entire windows operating system >> >> from >> >> the ones and zeros of machine code? Doesn't understanding windows >> >> require >> >> understanding of its design at a higher level? not at the machine code >> >> level? possibly by interviewing the designer and studying his work? >> >> Why >> >> would one think he can understand the human soul by studying the >> >> individual >> >> ones and zeros of the neurons? >> >> >> >> You see, this issue goes deeper than just discussions about the human >> >> soul. >> >> This issue involves our humanistic prederilection to avoid >> >> acknowledging the >> >> creator. We try our best to understand ourselves without studying the >> >> human >> >> blueprint. Such efforts are always doom to fail, much like the >> >> fallacies of >> >> Darwinian Evolution. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jojo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Patrick Ellul >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:43 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >> >> >> >> If I studied close enough the inside of a computer that has MS Windows >> >> installed on it, without ever switching it on, I can still see and >> >> understand the expected behaviour. The software program is persisted as >> >> ones >> >> and zeros on a memory device. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Jojo Jaro <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Any psychological/psychiatric/philosophical attempt to understand the >> >>> soul >> >>> is doom to failure from the onset. >> >>> >> >>> Let says you're a hardware/ASIC/Electronics/IC engineer who designed >> >>> the >> >>> Pentuim chip. Without understanding of the software, can you discern >> >>> the >> >>> operation of a PC from your understanding of the >> >>> hardware/Chips/IC/CPU/GPU/etc? At best, you understanding would be >> >>> severely >> >>> incomplete and faulty. Software is the intangible thing that controls >> >>> the >> >>> behavior of the computer. Software controls the hardware. >> >>> >> >>> On the same token, experts in >> >>> Psychology/Psychiatry/Philosophy/Sociology/Humanism/etc, can never >> >>> hope to >> >>> completely understand the Human Soul. It is that intangible entity - >> >>> the >> >>> soul, that controls the hardware consisting of your brain >> >>> cells/neurons, >> >>> etc. The Software soul is what needs to be understood for us to >> >>> understand >> >>> the behavior of man. You need to study the soul, not the brain. The >> >>> brain >> >>> is simply a mechanism that the soul controls much like the CPU chip is >> >>> the >> >>> mechanism that MS Windows controls. The analogy is apt and accurate. >> >>> >> >>> Hence, one is wasting their time trying to study all the ideas of >> >>> these >> >>> philosophers/psychologists/psychiatrists/etc. They are at best >> >>> severely >> >>> incomplete, at worst gravely misleading. >> >>> >> >>> If you want to understand the spiritual soul, go to the one who wrote >> >>> the >> >>> software soul. Study his book - the Bible to have a better >> >>> understanding of >> >>> human behavior. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Jojo >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Blanton" >> >>> <[email protected]> >> >>> To: <[email protected]> >> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 10:15 PM >> >>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Quantum Soul? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> I think Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff have the best explanation >> >>>> of >> >>>> consciousness to date. It's called Orchestrated Objective Reduction, >> >>>> or Orch-OR. The two actually developed the idea separately, Sir >> >>>> Penrose being a physicist and Hameroff being a physician who >> >>>> specialized in anesthesia and cancer research. Roger was seeking a >> >>>> model of the brain that did not require computation. Hameroff wanted >> >>>> to know how anesthesia worked and where the conscious went when >> >>>> under. >> >>>> Penrose theorizes that spacetime is granular at the size of the >> >>>> Planck length and that quantum superposition is linked to the >> >>>> curvature. Orchestrated Reduction is the collapse of the >> >>>> superposition. >> >>>> >> >>>> Hameroff brought in the neuron microtubles which provide the >> >>>> structure. He sees a synchronous oscillation in neural MT can >> >>>> influence other neurons. Together they see these electrons as a sea >> >>>> embedded in the geometry of spacetime. >> >>>> >> >>>> Needless to say, they have many critics. :-) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Patrick >> >> >> >> www.tRacePerfect.com >> >> The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! >> >> The quickest puzzle ever! >> >> >> >
