Ellen, Not all deaf people aspire to become a part of the hearing world. Your judgment that this decision leads to a lesser life is pretty harsh, n'est pas?
--- In [email protected], "Ellen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > gay vs. deaf is apples and oranges--I'm not talking about acceptance > vs. discrimination like is the issue with the gay community, I'm > talking about being able to to fully participate in society. Gay > people can fully participate in society, except for getting married. > They can fully enjoy concerts, movies, plays, waves crashing, rain > against the window, etc. It's not an issue of "getting away with" > being a hearing person, it's an issue of being able to fully > participate in/enjoy all life has to offer. IMO. > > > --- In [email protected], "Daria Akers" > <daria.akers@> wrote: > > > > The president-elect has been the Provost at the school for awhile. > Many of > > the students think that she lacks social skills and that she isn't a > good > > representative for the school. Maybe outsiders (those not in the deaf > > society) are making a bigger issue out of her attempting to pass. (Yes I > > know it is easier to be accepted...some would also say it would be > easier to > > just be hetrosexual to those who are gay...) > > Here is an interesting article from someone who is deaf. She supports > > Fernandes but has insight into some of the other issues. > > http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art42792.asp > > > > On 10/12/06, Ellen <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > > > the president-elect IS deaf, but she didn't learn sign language until > > > her '20's. so what? At least she's deaf. How do the students know > > > if she'll be a good president anyway? If I remember correctly the > > > last presidential protest was because the president-elect wasn't deaf > > > at all, and that was unacceptable, which I sort of understand more. > > > It seems it's really getting to a point where the students are just > > > protesting for the sake of protesting, which can be dangerous. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], James <ttlsccr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm not sure it's possible to compare large universities with > > > diverse student bodies to smaller schools at which the students are > > > bonded by common characteristics. Are there any traditionally black > > > colleges with white presidents? Religious schools with shrewd and > > > well-connected atheists at the helm? I'm not sure and am too lazy to > > > research it. But I think such a hiring at one of these schools would > > > provoke the same kind of outcry. I was impressed, while I was there, > > > that a large portion of a mostly white, mostly affluent student body > > > was so vehemently against GWU's massive investment in South Africa > > > during apartheid. But really, if there was a Springsteen concert that > > > night? Nada. Protesting was mostly something done between bong hits. > > > So if these kids want to shut down their school and fight for what's > > > important to them, hell yeah let 'em do it. At least they aren't > > > burning anything down. Go Terps! > > > > > > > > Ellen <ellengoodman6@> wrote: I don't understand what's > > > so bad about lipreading augmented by sign > > > > language. Face it, most hearing people are not going to learn sign > > > > language unless they have deaf people in their lives--family, > friends, > > > > coworkers, etc. If deaf people only know sign language they are > > > > isolating themselves from the outside world. No other "differently > > > > abled" people CHOOSE to totally insulate/isolate themselves from the > > > > rest of society. Sometimes that choice is made for them, whether > they > > > > want it or not because someone decides the persona cannot > function in > > > > mainstream society. But most people I know if they had a handicap > > > > they would want to do everything possible to prevent it from > > > > interfering with their regular lives. I am blind without my glasses. > > > > Would I rather hang out with other blind people because they are the > > > > only ones who can understand what I'm going through? Or would I > > > > rather wear glasses so I can correct the problem and function in > > > > mainstream society? I will take the glasses. I know deaf people also > > > > have a problem with cochlear implants. Give me a break. LIFE IS > > > > EASIER IF YOU CAN HEAR THAN IF YOU CAN'T HEAR! Can you hear me now? > > > > I realize I can't speak for deaf people, but I would imagine they > > > > would feel like they are missing out on certain things that can't be > > > > replicated in sign language or even lip reading--sounds that aren't > > > > words like music and wind and rain and waves crashing and > applause, etc. > > > > > > > > There was a deaf person in this group, haven't heard from him in a > > > > while. Zithromaximus or something like that. If you're still around, > > > > care to give your 2c? > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Diane Lochner > > > > <dlochund@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It's been my experience that a lot of colleges do bring > students to > > > > the table (ok, so maybe it's a token seat, but still a seat/voice.) > > > > My university did bring students into the process...We had a student > > > > member of the state board of higher education (who could vote...the > > > > faculty member of the state board could not) and we had a student on > > > > the presidential search committee. They also held "town hall > meeting" > > > > type events fror students, where those who had an interest could > come > > > > meet, address, and ask questions of the candidates. It was an > > > > official part of the campus interview process. I believe the student > > > > government leaders had one-on-one meetings with each candidate > as well. > > > > > > > > > > This was a decent-sized state institution, in the midwest, and for > > > > the most part, we'd always had good relations between students > and the > > > > administration. > > > > > > > > > > That all said, I agree with Amy, perhaps things are different in > > > > the deaf community? Certainly, I can see how it would be > important to > > > > some at Gallaudet that their president be fully immersed and > aware of > > > > deaf culture...perhaps part of the disagreement is the degree to > which > > > > the incoming president is or is not immersed/aware/etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > algriner1 <algriner1@> wrote: > > > > > What bothers me as an outsider viewing this situation, is > > > > that the > > > > > students appear, in part, angry because they were not included > in the > > > > > process to select the new president. Now, I went to a fine > > > > > institution of higher learning (University of Nebraska, where > the Big > > > > > Red "N" on the side of the football stadium stands for > "Nowledge"). > > > > > While I was in attendance, we had a selection process for a new > > > > > President (or Chancellor, I don't remember which, but for this > > > > > situation it doesn't matter). As a student I did not agree > with the > > > > > choice. I was VEHEMENTLY opposed. I was in Environmental Studies, > > > > > involved in Ecology Now, helped start putting recycling bins > in all > > > > > the buildings, that sort of thing. The guy tapped was partially > > > > > selected because of his closeness to certain companies that would > > > > > funnel money to the school for agricultural research, specifically > > > > > research to develop and promote genetically modified seeds and > > > > > crops. Yeah, I had a problem with that. LOTS of students had a > > > > > problem with that. > > > > > > > > > > Did we have a say, as students, in the selection process? No. The > > > > > selection was the responsibility of the Board of Regents. They > > > > > reviewed applicants, interviewed, and selected. No input from the > > > > > student body at all. Of course, that's just how it was. Their job > > > > > was to make sure the school functioned, our job was to study, > learn, > > > > > become adults, and graduate. We all did our job. School went on. > > > > > > > > > > The Gallaudet situation is troublesome because it appears that the > > > > > students are complaining because they didn't get to pick the > > > > > president or didn't have a voice in the selection. Guess > > > > > what...that's the way universities function. Get over it. Quit > > > > > whining and move on. It just smacks of too much of an > expectation of > > > > > getting exactly what you want, all the time. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I'm being too harsh...maybe things are different in the deaf > > > > > community. I don't know. But I know of NO other university where > > > > > the students have an active part of a selection process of such a > > > > > position at the school. Why should it be different at Gallaudet? > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Ellen" > > > > > <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks, that was my impression, but it isn't clear what the > > > > > > protesting are hoping will happen, other than the incoming > > > > > president > > > > > > be ousted. Many people president-age learned ASL as adults, as > > > > > > you're saying. That's not their fault--at least they know it. > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > that better than not knowing it? How do the protesters know > anyone > > > > > > else would be any better? To at least this outsider, both > > > > > culturally > > > > > > and geographically, they appear to be overreacting, but who > knows. > > > > > > Out of hand because if the school is shut down I would think > that > > > > > > would be most people's definition of out of hand. But they could > > > > > > just be thinking OK the protesters won because they forced us to > > > > > shut > > > > > > the school. Are they happy now? I hope this gets resolved soon > > > > > and > > > > > > that it isn't the beginning of the end of Gallaudet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Daria Akers" > > > > > > <daria.akers@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It depends on what is out of hand. I will give you what I > > > > > understand > > > > > > > but I am not deaf so I in now way want to speak for those > who are > > > > > > but > > > > > > > I am very interested in deaf culture so I might have some > insight > > > > > to > > > > > > > offer. > > > > > > > The first deaf president of Gallaudet (I. King Jordan) was > > > > > ushered > > > > > > in > > > > > > > on the back of protests. That was almost 18 years ago. Now > he is > > > > > > upset > > > > > > > at this one...seems odd to me. > > > > > > > There are many different issues. Some believe that the > cultural > > > > > > > diversity of the student body is not being considered enough > > > > > > > (representatives on the Board and in school officials), some > > > > > people > > > > > > > say that there is discrimination on campus, some people > think the > > > > > > new > > > > > > > president is a bad representative for the deaf community, some > > > > > think > > > > > > > that she isn't a strong leader. > > > > > > > The deaf community has changed significantly in the last few > > > > > > decades. > > > > > > > It used to be that in the 50s and 60s deaf people would > learn to > > > > > lip > > > > > > > read and attempted to integrate into the non-deaf community by > > > > > > > learning to talk. Many deaf people never even used ASL > (American > > > > > > Sign > > > > > > > Language). Older generations are looked at sometimes viewed by > > > > > young > > > > > > > deaf people like black people who used to pass as whites. Like > > > > > they > > > > > > > weren't proud or accepting of who they were. Now most deaf > people > > > > > > > learn ASL and request interpreters to talk to non-deaf people. > > > > > The > > > > > > new > > > > > > > president didn't learn ASL until she was in her 20s. > > > > > > > So that's my 2 cents (okay more like 50 but...) > > > > > > > Daria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/12/06, Ellen <ellengoodman6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Can someone please fill me in on the Gallaudet situation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > > > Great rates starting at 1ยข/min. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! 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