Gerard, You have posted several emails on the subject which read as disrespectful, can cause offence and discourage LGBT+ contributors to this list who may have otherwise openly expressed views. The line of argument that LGBT+ Wikimedians must expect to be at personal risk just to attend a Wikimania is repugnant to me, and is likely to be for a majority of other readers. This point of view runs counter to the values of the WMF or recognized affiliates.
If you wish to develop a better understanding of how the basic safety of all attendees at future Wikimanias and other conferences should be a priority, this may be better done on-wiki rather than repeating your points on this list. I warmly recommend a reality check with friends off-list as to what might be read as offensive, should you wish to continue posting further emails about this particular topic. Thanks, Fae On 9 November 2016 at 16:43, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > What is the point. When not even the USA is "safe", we have to be > realistic. Wikimania is about propaganda for what we do. We have to travel > and selecting a place is not about you, it is about them. It is about the > people we aim to serve. > > I made my point before, it did not get any attention then and my argument > now is that nothing changed. It is only the perception of the USA that has > been dented by an unfortunate "democratic" choice by last night's election. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 9 November 2016 at 17:27, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <list-wikime...@funcrunch.org >> wrote: > >> Gerard, as a queer black trans person who feels unsafe even in San >> Francisco (and has felt that way for years), I would really appreciate you >> not pushing last night's election results in my face to make a point. >> >> - Pax >> >> >> >> On 11/9/16 8:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >> >>> Hoi, >>> Do you blame me for not feeling safe going to the USA? >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 8 November 2016 at 11:08, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hoi, >>>> Not going to North Corolina is absolutely fine with me. We do not gain >>>> anything by going there arguably not to any state in the United States. >>>> What Wikimania is, is a platform for propaganda for what we have, what we >>>> do, who we are and how we do what we do. In many countries Wikipedia is >>>> not >>>> the house hold name it is in the USA. >>>> >>>> Wikimania is not aimed for the English Wikipedia, it is aimed to further >>>> our movement. Not going to places is similar to saying that those other >>>> people, speaking other languages, with an other culture do not matter. >>>> They >>>> do. >>>> >>>> We should go to Russia, India, South Africa, China. The people of those >>>> countries should matter to us, the people we could share the sum of all >>>> knowledge with. >>>> >>>> THAT is what we do, sharing the sum of all knowledge. >>>> >>>> When the choice of the venue is only about being safe, we should not go >>>> to >>>> the USA (I do not feel safe there), we should go to Germany, to >>>> Switzerland >>>> and move the office as well. It is not likely to happen, not what I want >>>> either. >>>> >>>> If there is one thing about LBGT, it is that that struggle is still being >>>> fought. Hiding and keeping away does not work. It does not help the LBGT >>>> community. More importantly in this context it does not help the >>>> Wikimedia >>>> community. For the latter it is vital to make our message heard.We aim to >>>> share the sum of all knowledge and many people have not even heard of us. >>>> Thank, >>>> GerardM >>>> >>>> On 18 October 2016 at 16:00, Pax Ahimsa Gethen < >>>> list-wikime...@funcrunch.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human rights >>>>> and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm >>>>> concerned >>>>> not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also about those >>>>> living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a location with a >>>>> poor >>>>> human rights record reflects poorly upon Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our >>>>> mission to share knowledge. There's a reason a number of major companies >>>>> pulled their events and funding out of North Carolina after the >>>>> restrictive >>>>> restroom laws were passed for example... >>>>> >>>>> - Pax >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hoi, >>>>>> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve. >>>>>> Our >>>>>> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in >>>>>> the >>>>>> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday >>>>>> destination. >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> GerardM >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety >>>>>> >>>>>>> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific >>>>>>> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine >>>>>>> how such a thing could be true. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of >>>>>>> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please >>>>>>> don't make it appear as if they have. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Fae >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen < >>>>>>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hoi, >>>>>>>> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels >>>>>>>> problematic >>>>>>>> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> stands >>>>>>> >>>>>>> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> South Africa. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> -- >> Pax Ahimsa Gethen | http://funcrunch.org -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
