You have posted several emails on the subject which read as
disrespectful, can cause offence and discourage LGBT+ contributors to
this list who may have otherwise openly expressed views. The line of
argument that LGBT+ Wikimedians must expect to be at personal risk
just to attend a Wikimania is repugnant to me, and is likely to be for
a majority of other readers. This point of view runs counter to the
values of the WMF or recognized affiliates.

If you wish to develop a better understanding of how the basic safety
of all attendees at future Wikimanias and other conferences should be
a priority, this may be better done on-wiki rather than repeating your
points on this list.

I warmly recommend a reality check with friends off-list as to what
might be read as offensive, should you wish to continue posting
further emails about this particular topic.


On 9 November 2016 at 16:43, Gerard Meijssen <> wrote:
> Hoi,
> What is the point. When not even the USA is "safe", we have to be
> realistic. Wikimania is about propaganda for what we do. We have to travel
> and selecting a place is not about you, it is about them. It is about the
> people we aim to serve.
> I made my point before, it did not get any attention then and my argument
> now is that nothing changed. It is only the perception of the USA that has
> been dented by an unfortunate "democratic" choice by last night's election.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
> On 9 November 2016 at 17:27, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
>> wrote:
>> Gerard, as a queer black trans person who feels unsafe even in San
>> Francisco (and has felt that way for years), I would really appreciate you
>> not pushing last night's election results in my face to make a point.
>> - Pax
>> On 11/9/16 8:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>> Hoi,
>>> Do you blame me for not feeling safe going to the USA?
>>> Thanks,
>>>       GerardM
>>> On 8 November 2016 at 11:08, Gerard Meijssen <>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hoi,
>>>> Not going to North Corolina is absolutely fine with me. We do not gain
>>>> anything by going there arguably not to any state in the United States.
>>>> What Wikimania is, is a platform for propaganda for what we have, what we
>>>> do, who we are and how we do what we do. In many countries Wikipedia is
>>>> not
>>>> the house hold name it is in the USA.
>>>> Wikimania is not aimed for the English Wikipedia, it is aimed to further
>>>> our movement. Not going to places is similar to saying that those other
>>>> people, speaking other languages, with an other culture do not matter.
>>>> They
>>>> do.
>>>> We should go to Russia, India, South Africa, China. The people of those
>>>> countries should matter to us, the people we could share the sum of all
>>>> knowledge with.
>>>> THAT is what we do, sharing the sum of all knowledge.
>>>> When the choice of the venue is only about being safe, we should not go
>>>> to
>>>> the USA (I do not feel safe there), we should go to Germany, to
>>>> Switzerland
>>>> and move the office as well. It is not likely to happen, not what I want
>>>> either.
>>>> If there is one thing about LBGT, it is that that struggle is still being
>>>> fought. Hiding and keeping away does not work. It does not help the LBGT
>>>> community. More importantly in this context it does not help the
>>>> Wikimedia
>>>> community. For the latter it is vital to make our message heard.We aim to
>>>> share the sum of all knowledge and many people have not even heard of us.
>>>> Thank,
>>>>        GerardM
>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 16:00, Pax Ahimsa Gethen <
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> Gerard, this isn't about "holiday destinations", it's about human rights
>>>>> and dignity. That's why I emphasized in my original post that I'm
>>>>> concerned
>>>>> not only about the safety of conference attendees, but also about those
>>>>> living in the host country. The choice of a venue in a location with a
>>>>> poor
>>>>> human rights record reflects poorly upon Wikipedia/Wikimedia and our
>>>>> mission to share knowledge. There's a reason a number of major companies
>>>>> pulled their events and funding out of North Carolina after the
>>>>> restrictive
>>>>> restroom laws were passed for example...
>>>>> - Pax
>>>>> On 10/18/16 6:26 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>> For me safety is to a large extend secondary to what we aim to achieve.
>>>>>> Our
>>>>>> primary goal is to improve on our primary goal and it is "sharing in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> sum of all knowledge". It is not for going to the perfect holiday
>>>>>> destination.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>        GerardM
>>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 13:56, Fæ <> wrote:
>>>>>> Gerard, could you provide some tangible examples of how other safety
>>>>>>> aspects of Wikimania would be compromised if there is any specific
>>>>>>> attention paid to the safety of LGBT+ Wikimedians? I cannot imagine
>>>>>>> how such a thing could be true.
>>>>>>> Based on my reading, nobody in this thread has asked for the safety of
>>>>>>> LGBT+ attendees to be "prioritized" over other safety aspects. Please
>>>>>>> don't make it appear as if they have.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Fae
>>>>>>> On 18 October 2016 at 11:42, Gerard Meijssen <
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>>>> I do care that everybody can come to places where they are safe. All
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> specific LGBT attention to safety is however on many levels
>>>>>>>> problematic
>>>>>>>> when we prioritise this over other safety aspects. The big picture
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> is that we need to go to places where bringing Wikipedia and what it
>>>>>>>> stands
>>>>>>> for the most good. It is why I would go to Russia, to China to India
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> South Africa.
>>>>>>>> --
>> --
>> Pax Ahimsa Gethen |


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