But see, the issue with code completion is that for a developer who is working his day 99% in Tango - then there is very little benefit. His brain is full of it. For someone like me (and most web developers I've met), who work in C++, C#, VB, perl, or other languages to do a lot of their work (say build COM objects, or other projects), code completion is almost a necessity. See, it can be hard to always remember the innards of every language/environment if you're working in more than one. For me, I'd be using my web development tool probably one day a week - not enough to keep my mind up to date on the specifics of the tags. Code completion helps drive the stress down.
1) I don't know - its installer based, just like all the others I've used. 2) The chief architect (Andre) is one of the best engineers I've seen ever. Ritchie Carroll (who works with me now) is the second. If anybody can get WiTango Server to a place where I don't care what server I really run - its him. 3) Multi-platform. So is J2ee, php3, and WebObjects. But out of the four listed - it's probably the best or tied with the best. -- Alex Kac, CEO/Developer Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management. http://www.pocketinformant.com/ zoomzoom > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [Gauthier] > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 7:11 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > > > I also think that the editor will become incredible if some > features like code completion for metatags as well as > previously used variables become available. It's sure that MS > tools have some advance on this, they have managed with this > since a long time. But it's surely not what wich will make a > Witango developer slower on most projects rather than other > platform developer. > > For the server I think Witango have many pros comparating to > other products: -It's really far more easy to setup than > anything else -The performance (ever for the v4) is great, as > I've heard there was korean guys at the conference that have > made an huge work of benchmarking of the v4 in comparison > with php, asp and jsp with a common identic application > logic, the overall performance have show that the Witango > server is less demanding (especially on memory management as > well as database communication), maybe they will showup and > share the precises info with us here. -The chief architect of > the server development is doing an incredible work. -It's > fully multiplatform (thanks to With Enterprise and StoneSteps > for supporting this), like I've said in my previous post, > it's a key feature. > > Gauthier > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alex Kac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Multiple recipients of list witango-talk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 1:17 AM > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > > > > I think its possible personally. The Tango IDE was always > the selling > point. > > To get there would require a huge amount of development effort, but > > you > know > > - Pervasive was somewhat going there with THEIR Tango 5 > effort. And I > > believe With got some of that work. So if they are basing some of > > their > Java > > work off that - then I can say that it may be very > compelling. Tango's > > IDE is still far and away better than Cold Fusion's > DreamWeaver MX in > > my > opinion > > (which I've used for some small work - and is good for > quick things). > > The server - no matter how much work they've done on it - > just won't > > be as > good > > as the J2ee/.NET servers out there purely because its > limited. It'll > > definitely be better than what T4 provided from the very > fact of who > > is mainly working on it (an awesome engineer). So I have > high hopes of > > the technology in the short term. > > > > But do remember that WebObjects is considered one of the best > > application development environments yet it has no code > completion and > > other editor niceties. After using Visual Studio.NET - that > has been > > almost #1 on my > list > > for any IDE I use - code completion/Intellisense type > feature. I would > love > > to see that in WiTango and for me would help cement the decision on > > what product I use. > > > > -- > > Alex Kac, CEO/Developer > > > > Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management > > http://www.pocketinformant.com/ > > > > zoomzoom > > > > > > > From: Robert Sfeir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:57:31 -0400 > > > To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Round trip JSP Editing in the Tango editor... Man that > will be the > > > day! If WiTango can manage that, they would smoke MANY IDEs out > > > there provided that they can also do internal debugging (true > > > debugging that is like any other language with break points, step > > > in/out etc...) from within the editor. Of course they > would need a > > > slew of features to compete including refactoring, code > completion > > > (for html, jsp and xml), and editing/compiling of java > code and JSP > > > from within the editor itself. At that point I would > forget about > > > the Tango app server and let the existing java app > servers deal with > > > it, and concentrate on the IDE only. > > > > > > Of course I've been singing this song forever, but > everyone thinks > > > I'm nuts. I just don't see the value of having a specialized app > > > server to run your code. Even ColdFusion is going to java with > > > their stuff with NEO. I feel bad for the folks at WithEnterprise > > > because the T5 app server, from what is described on this > list, is > > > something that Everyware and Pervasive OWED the (Wi)Tango > community > > > a long time ago. Unfortunately they're stuck with the > product, and > > > they're stuck with trying to make things work the way they should > > > have been in the FIRST PLACE, THEN deal with the added burden of > > > catching up to market demands, which covering for a period of 2.5 > > > years is just HUGE. So their task is larger than anyone sees I > > > think... Oh yeah and they loose any kind of connection > they had with > > > the previous name of the product, and they're having to do it all > > > from outside the US, which can't be easy either > considering 95% of > > > their market is over here. > > > > > > Just my 2c. > > > R > > > > > > On Wednesday, July 31, 2002, at 11:08 AM, Alex Kac wrote: > > > > > >> I am a very passionate person about a few things - and > sometimes I > don't > > >> know why. Tango is one of them. It is unique. I also tend to be > > >> very opinionated - that didn't always come out when I worked for > > >> PVSW since > I > > >> tended to be quite corporate there :) > > >> > > >> Those things I mentioned may not be what an average web > application > user > > >> uses (since I think the average one is ASP/PHP driven), but once > > >> you've used them in .NET or elsewhere such as CF - they > really make > > >> life simple in so > > >> many areas. The issue is that some of the features are > key to me - > > >> specifically web services - as I build more automated > features into our > > >> website as well as working with our reseller. Granted, > I've been the > one > > >> pushing our retailers to allow registration/serial number > > >> generation through web services to provide the best user > > >> experience, as well as tying into their engines in our > site through > > >> web services - but either way, its something that I > really do need. > > >> > > >> The other part is that I still consult to quite a few > Austin based > > >> enterprises (you know, the ones that buy $100k worth of hardware > > >> for a website alone or $1mil for one single software/consulting > > >> deal) and they all HAD tango stuff running and have > moved to .NET. > > >> Now Tango is probably never > > >> going to be on their radar again - but who knows? > > >> > > >> The other issue is cost. .NET is about $1k in costs. > Windows server > > >> license > > >> - about $500. Visual Studio.NET (which is an awesome IDE...) - > > >> anywhere from $99 to $699 in stores. Or of course if you already > > >> have a Windows server...anywhere from free to $699 for the IDE. > > >> Using that IDE, I can built > > >> almost the same kind of apps that I can in Tango in some > cases far less > > >> time > > >> - and in some cases more. Both have their strengths and > weaknesses. But > > >> .NET > > >> runs very fast; has data caching; industrial strength > sessions states - > > >> and > > >> best of all - a true programming language that doesn't > stop you from > > >> anything. > > >> > > >> Problem is - no cross platform support (yet) and it doesn't feel > > >> like home. There is just something about Tango's design that I > > >> still love. But I want > > >> to see it grow up. I don't like to sit here and wonder > if it will do > > >> what I > > >> want it to do - and I also don't have time to do that. I > want to know > > >> if I > > >> should just stop even thinking about it - or :) > > >> > > >> Now, the ability to export to J2ee is what intrigues me because > > >> then - if its editable - I can write most of the app in > Tango and > > >> export to j2ee for > > >> the more complex pieces. Granted, I couldn't then edit > it in Tango > > >> again - > > >> and that's a big issue. > > >> > > >> But once the featureset is announced, I can then sit > back and make > > >> a decision. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Alex Kac, CEO/Developer > > >> > > >> Innovation in Personal and Business Information Management > > >> http://www.pocketinformant.com/ > > >> > > >> zoomzoom > > >> > > >> > > >>> From: Garth Penglase <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:03:38 +1000 > > >>> To: Multiple recipients of list witango-talk > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> Subject: Re: Witango-Talk: Witangov5 ?? Vaporware? > > >>> > > >>> Well, it would be sad to see you go Alex, since you would be a > > >>> valued developer on this list, particularly with your > programming > > >>> efforts in the PIM area, so I hope that you find enough > in the new > > >>> version to keep > you > > >>> interested. I would have thought that some of the items > mentioned > > >>> in your wish-list were a bit beyond what the "average" > developer > > >>> (if there is such > > >>> a thing) would be expecting, I would have thought, but > they certainly > > >>> would > > >>> take the product a long way further than the previous > incarnation and > > >>> would > > >>> be exciting additions. I do think that even if the > product doesn't > > >>> live up > > >>> to these expectations initially, the extension of its legendary > > >>> ease-of-use > > >>> and new speed and stability, along with the advancements already > > >>> mentioned > > >>> (j2ee etc..) must make it worth consideration for the > majority of us. > > >>> > > >>> I must say I think that if you went it would be a > duller list as > > >>> well - the number of emails in this thread has got to > be a record, > > >>> and you certainly > > >>> have made life a little more interesting on the list! > > >>> cheers > > >>> Garth > > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > > >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) > > > > > > iD8DBQE9SAjvK/1j/4sLi/ARAlQVAJ9fJIZmdXesaw2s4aavA9z4HabbbACgqIUG > > > qe7lzbXZEObjqVWAwQbCxb0= > > > =dMTD > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > ____ > > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > __ > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > > > ______________________________________________________________ > ________________ > ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! > vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le > WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body > ________________________________________________________________________ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text/US ASCII email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe witango-talk in the message body
