Aha, then we are on the same page.  I have some sessions to enter 
today.  When I have time, I will try to paint a clearer picture.

Thanks, JM.

Fitness63 wrote:
> From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - "I suspect that Zen is just a mental balancing
> excercise without spirituality."
> I agree that the New Age Zen of today is like that.
> >Well? If you don't agree, then what is Zen.>
> When I was younger, the books that I read seemed to point to the issue of
> karma and spiritual connection from zazen. That is how I understood it 
> based
> on my upbringing as a person of faith and spirituality. I think that 
> is how
> you describe CHAN?


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