Hi Al, 

I would not say that HPZ is NOT Chan, but a subset of Chan.  Besides, we use the term Content instead of Happy in Chan

It is not my position nor mission to academically compare Zen and Chan. This road serves no purpose. I will however explain what Chan is if the readers are interested.   Since I brought up the subject however, I will complete it......

I believe Zen could be just a subset of Chan.  Zen seems to have all the visible forms -- words, concepts and descriptions of Chan, but not the invisible part of Chan,  karma, cause, etc.  If so then Zen is incomplete from my understanding of Chan. 

Chan deals with everything in the universe, whether it is labeled as supernatural, unscientific, energy, field, maya, samsara.  Chan is simple and direct.  It is taught without words and formalities.  And the gate to enter it is absolute stillness and absolute surrender of ego.

JM

Fitness63 wrote:

From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - > I don't seem to understand your comment on what
I wrote. I don't find them relate to each other.>

OK. You say Chan is about karma and liberation? I agree.

I think that HAPPY PEOPLE ZEN is what is now being taught in many places in
America. It is NO KARMA, just HAPPY PEOPLE no matter what. Just zazen and BE
HAPPY.

That is not CHAN. OK?

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