Got it. Thanks...
Edgar Owen wrote:
>
> Hi JM,
>
>
> For my views on consciousness and OE please read my paper
> http://EdgarLOwen.com/consciousness.pdf
> <http://EdgarLOwen.com/consciousness.pdf>
>
> Best,
> Edgar
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
>
>> Hi Edgar,
>>
>> Thank you for your post. Yes, I have similar observation. You still
>> owe me a detail explanation of OE. :-)
>>
>> Continue in the academic sense for those who are interested .........
>>
>> Similar to the journey of Buddha, my teacher teached nothing except
>> meditation for the first 15 years. We were taught to walk His walk,
>> instead of study His experience. Based on this simple practice of
>> nothing but staying in our chi, the truth of the world unfold to us.
>>
>> Because Chan is nothing but a synchronization to the Universal
>> Consciousness, Chan can encompass, explain, accept all philosophy,
>> religion, spirituality, phenomenon, supernatural or logical. And will
>> never reject, ignore, limit to any written or spoken labels. I find
>> essence in Christianity, Islam, Vedenta (1,500 before Buddhism) are all
>> same, if we read in between the lines and experience with our spirit
>> instead of study with our mind.
>>
>> Chan is One. This One is Whole and Complete. It manifested, supported,
>> provided for all Forms, visible or not, each are caused differently. It
>> is not for our brain to analyze the causes, because our brain is not
>> capable, but for us to be synced/harmonized with each and every one.
>>
>> Yet, one must staying in his Chi, not his mind, not his brain, not his
>> emotions, not his senses, 24/7.
>>
>> That's Chan academia in a nutshell.
>> _/\_
>> JM
>>
>> Edgar Owen wrote:
>> >
>> > Donald,
>> >
>> >
>> > I don't think Zen pays much attention to karma. Zen certainly doesn't
>> > accept reincarnation which is how karma is typically transmitted
>> > according to traditional Buddhist thought. Zen is more about dealing
>> > with the present however it may appear. Nor does Zen posit any after
>> > death states such as nirvana or supernatural Buddha realms (though in
>> > early Chan there are passing references to such when discussing
>> > earlier texts). Zen is all about the here now, there is zero
>> > supernatural element to Zen.
>> >
>> > Zen does accept that right action facilitates enlightenment in this
>> > lifetime though.
>> >
>> > Edgar
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sep 3, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Al,
>> >>
>> >> I don't know whether the "other guy" you were talking about is Donald
>> >> Hwong. I am Donald Hwong. I switched my email to my Dharma Name,
>> >> JMJM. A dharma name is a name given by my teacher as a recognition
>> >> for the world of dharma. We have approximately 50 people with dharma
>> >> names in our school with about 50,000 practitioners in all. We are
>> >> probably the largest at-home practitioner group that I know, meaning
>> >> without temple, formality, words, rules, etc.
>> >>
>> >> I am one of the two teachers in the US. I am in charge of the
>> >> English classes. We have about 6 classes in Los Angeles. However, I
>> >> am still learning. I don't consider my English is sufficient, nor my
>> >> sharing of Chan has any value. I have been called many titles,
>> >> including a monk with hair. None of these are necessary. A lot of
>> >> times, I don't even like to sign off on my post. Honestly, there is
>> >> nothing to learn, nothing to master. We had all within us.
>> >>
>> >> I have been with your group and other groups for about 5-6 years
>> >> now. What I have learned is that the concept of karma and cause and
>> >> effect are not taught in the Zen. At least, the Roshi in the other
>> >> group openly stated so.
>> >>
>> >> Without the correct understanding of karma and cause and effect, and
>> >> the proper practice to witness it, there is no way to rid of the
>> >> karma. It seems to me, after reading off/online for about 7-8 years,
>> >> Zen differs from Chan in the fact Zen has no spiritual power. It is
>> >> just a mental exercise without any connection to the life forces of
>> >> the universe. I do hope that I am limited in my scope.
>> >>
>> >> To be enlightened, surpass the three realms is the first step, they
>> >> are the realm of Desire, Form and the Formless. Or in short the
>> >> karmic hindrances to body, mind and spirit. Karma is not a theory.
>> >> It is a force, we can sense, process, transfer, etc. Without a
>> >> practice to rid of karma, we still can suffer from sickness, (bodily
>> >> karma), mental anguish (mind karma) and accidents (spiritual karma).
>> >>
>> >> Just some observations to share.
>> >>
>> >> Fitness63 wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> By the way, are you a Roshi or a monk or a sensei? I am sorry that I
>> >>> may sound disrespectful to you and the other guy (forgot who he
>> >>> was), but this forum has been in existence around ten years and
>> >>> there have been a lot of people claiming to be senseis or monks and
>> >>> sometimes they were not and sometimes they were and unfortunately
>> >>> they usually had their feelings hurt and left so whenever I do not
>> >>> see you post I presume you already gave up and left. Apparently the
>> >>> other guy did as he has not posted in a long time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thank you for giving so much, this is character building though some
>> >>> call it abuse.
>> >>>
>> >>> Al
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <mailto:chan.jmjm%40gmail.com>>
>> >>> *To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>>
>> >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 03, 2008 1:56 AM
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Sick of Flaming
>> >>>
>> >>> Chan is One, the big One. The One which supports everything
>> >>> visible and
>> >>> invisible on an equal basis without preference. The fact that each
>> >>> tree grows differently maybe obvious to our eyes, but the causes of
>> >>> their differences are difficult to see. Often, instead of
>> >>> pondering on
>> >>> the cause, and causes of causes of their difference, we label these
>> >>> trees by comparing them and deluded to believe that our labels
>> >>> were real.
>> >>>
>> >>> Every incident, encounter, formation and phenomenon in our lives
>> >>> are the
>> >>> result of some causes, and each cause are often caused by
>> >>> generations of
>> >>> causes. It is our purpose, as Chan practitioners, to
>> >>> satisfy/consummate/resolve/ferry each one, such that this karma
>> >>> does not
>> >>> propagate. This the "first act of perfection" -- giving. Not
>> >>> judging,
>> >>> categorizing, filing away, ignoring, but giving.
>> >>>
>> >>> It is our practice to recognize the variations of cause and
>> >>> effect and
>> >>> learn from them to resolve/satisfy externally as well as make peace
>> >>> internally, such that our spirituality is strengthened and enhanced.
>> >>>
>> >>> Lotus does not grow from clean water. The bigger the mud, the
>> >>> bigger
>> >>> the lotus.
>> >>>
>> >>> Let us do it together.
>> >>>
>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> <mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cynthia,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The only thing that can be done to stop the flaming is to turn
>> >>> this
>> >>> > forum into a fully moderated forum in which the moderator - Al
>> >>> - reads
>> >>> > and approves postings before allowing them on the forum. Al
>> >>> could also
>> >>> > probably block some contributors, but they could get around
>> >>> this very
>> >>> > easily by just registering as a different name.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > A fully moderated forum has a lot of drawbacks:
>> >>> > - it's a LOT OF WORK for the moderator
>> >>> > - it slows down posting exchanges
>> >>> > - it gives the power of censorship to the moderator - which in
>> >>> this
>> >>> > case is Al, whom I'm comfortable with, but it's always a bone of
>> >>> > contention
>> >>> > - there are probably more drawbacks that I haven't thought of...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I think it would be better to keep the forum open and just
>> >>> censor the
>> >>> > postings yourself - by using your delete key.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Also, and maybe the best suggestion, is we could all help
>> >>> reduce the
>> >>> > flaming by not responding to flames - which I am guilty of. I
>> >>> do that
>> >>> > because flaming doesn't bother me. Not responding would reduce the
>> >>> > reason to flame because there would be no indignant reaction to
>> >>> fuel
>> >>> > the flames.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > What does everyone else think?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Al, this topic keeps coming up. What do you think?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ...Bill!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >>> > [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >>> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Cynthia-Graphic
>> >>> > Significance Music
>> >>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:55 AM
>> >>> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >>> > Subject: [Zen] Sick of Flaming
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I just want the flaming to stop. How can we get that crap off
>> >>> the group?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Cynthia
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > __________ NOD32 3401 (20080829) Information __________
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> >>> > http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com> <http://www.eset.com
>> <http://www.eset.com>> <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com>
>> >>> <http://www.eset.com <http://www.eset.com>>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
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