Wow!  And I thought the Buddha had left his wealth (and family) 
behind in search of the cause of and relief from suffering. I 
thought he tried a multitude of techniques before settling on living 
the Middle Way. I thought he told people not to follow him, but to 
use his technique of meditation and following the Eight-Fold path to 
living Nirvana. What a selfish fat bastard he was to dare to claim 
that each of us can acknowledge our cause of suffering and free 
ourselves from it.  And I thought that the Buddha was not really 
fat, that is just a depiction that was given to him when his legend 
migrated to China, I forget the meaning though. But then again, who 
knows.  I guess Al does! My bias is showing. Thank You Al, for 
bringing the me to the realization that my beliefs are all wrong. I 
can't believe that fat bastard, through preaching compassion for all 
living beings and ultimately the end of one's suffering, was 
actually just looking for a free meal and a place to sit his fat 
lazy ass!  That Sorry, family deserting, dead-beat, selfish 

--- In, "Fitness63" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think Buddha Nature is a bigger illusion than CHI. I never talk 
about it at all, because I do not think that there is Buddha Nature. 
Buddha was not God, he was just some fat prince that could afford to 
sit in a cave for nine years without starving to death because there 
was some other unknown bastards bringing him food and water and 
busting their respective asses so that one rich fucker could find 
> So whatever he found, it existed before he found it, and I don't 
think of it as Buddha Nature anymore than I think of it as "Rich 
Lazy Fat Bastard Nature." 
> So Chi means more to me as a word than Buddha Nature. When you 
think about the whole story of the Buddha it brings up some issues, 
like why wasn't that fat bastard working in the fields helping 
people instead of sitting in a cave. 
> Not to mention that he gives no mentions to the staff of people 
that took care of him for nine years. He wasn't coming out of the 
cave to hunt and fish so someone else was doing that for him, and 
those guys and gals got no credit at all. That seems very selfish. 
It should be called "Dedicated Servants Nature" in honor of the 
folks that actually were working during the nine years that fat boy 
was meditating. 
> Al
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Bill Smart 
>   To: 
>   Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:35 PM
>   Subject: [Zen] Re: JUDO
>   Al,
>   Exactly!
>   IF (and that's a big IF) you realize something is an illusion 
>   identify it as such, you can qualify it as much as you'd like.
>   BUT (and that's a bodacious booty) if you're saying something is 
>   an illusion you shouldn't use qualifiers. For example, you 
>   talk about 'my Buddha Nature and your Buddha Nature, or good 
>   Nature and Bad Buddha Nature, etc...; would you?
>   Bill! 
>   --- In, "Fitness63" <fitness63@> wrote:
>   >
>   > From: Bill Smart<as soon as you enter into a
>   > dualistic despription of chi, assigning it such qualities as 
>   personal chi, 
>   > universal chi, good chi, bad chi, feminine chi, masuline chi, 
>   chi, 
>   > weak chi, etc..., you are no longer talking about chi, you're 
>   babbling 
>   > about some illusions and attachments you have in regards to 
>   concept of 
>   > chi.>
>   > 
>   > Chi is an illusion anyway, so why not qualify your illusions. 
>   all, 
>   > they are part of the real world and thus there are all kinds.
>   >


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