Hi Margie,

That's exactly how I see it too. I think you can no more "get rid of" 
desires/aversions than you can stop your kidneys producing urine :)       I 
also think your quote addresses exactly what I stated about animals and zen. 


----- Original Message ----
From: roloro1557 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 10 October, 2008 8:20:54
Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

Hi Mike-

R.H. Blyth: "Zen does not mean not fearing; it means not fearing to fear."

I think your understanding is more colored by Buddhism than mine.
Which is wonderful and fine and terrific. You have your zen and I have
my zen and it's OK.

My understanding of it has never been that one should "get rid of"
aversions and desires, but rather one should understand them for what
they are- clouds passing over the face of the moon. One should be
mindful about them rather than simply acting on them. That is- one
needn't always pay attention to them, certainly one needn't always act
on them. Acknowledge them and let them go. Don't give them any energy.
Like magic they just disappear! ;-)

Being without desires and aversions seems inhuman to me, and zen is
about being FULLY human.

But that's just the way I see it-
Margie (roloro1557)

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, mike brown <uerusuboyo@ ...> wrote:
> Hi Margie,
> Hmm, I can appreciate the sentiment but I can't really agree that
"Animals are eloquent zennists".  We may often observe animals
appearing to 'be in the moment', but zen is also about how to live and
die mindfully. For instance, we can also observe animals cowering
fearfully from certain situations (aversion) and also acting
instictively/ behaviourally from out of basic desires (eg, snapping at
other animals that get in their way). I think animals can make
excellent teachers of zen, but not because they are living zen. Mike.



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