Raan,,

He's already proved he's conscious to you because you are responding to him.


Edgar



On Nov 3, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Raan wrote:

Is it a fantasy to realize not only that this right now is real, but
that it's being is completely and utterly beyond comprehension?
Dispute then if you will, and explain comprehensibly how it is
anything exists at all. Should there not rather be nothing? And then
try to prove to me beyond a doubt that you are anything at all
yourself - that you are an actual conscious awareness. Then maybe if
you can put the two together you will have some notion of what it is
to be enlightened.
--
RaaN

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> Â
> Is it worth all the dedication just to have those 'fantasies'?
> Â
> If so, espresso is no fun. Remy Martin is better.
> Â
> Regards,
> Anthony
>
> --- On Mon, 3/11/08, Bill Smart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: Bill Smart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, 3 November, 2008, 4:44 PM
>
>
>
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>
> Zatoichi63,
>
> To answer your question, yes 'satori' is just 'a fairly tale' - an
> illusion.
>
> My other responses are embedded below:
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, "zatoichi63" <fitness63@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > <BillSmart@> 'With complete awareness' would have been better.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > With x-ray vision and telekinesis would have been even better. Have > > you ever considered that this goal you have dedicated your life too
> is
> > as much a sack of bullshit as Heaven, Angels, and Leprechauns?
>
> To what goal do you think I have dedicated my life? Certainly
> not 'satori' or 'enlightnement' , or Heaven, Angels or Leprechauns.
>
> > Chemical scientific analysis of brain functions keeps unlocking the > > doors to the "white light" and other mystical experiences that have
> > been proven to be hallucinations caused by the chemicals that are
> > manufactured by your brain.
>
> How do you define 'hallucinations' ? Are they a 'false' awareness of
> things that aren't 'really' there? If so, how does 'real' awareness
> of things that are 'really' there happen? Aren't they also caused by
> chemical reactions in the brain? What's the difference?
>
> > Meditate endlessly, and your brain creates a chemical whose effects
> > people have come to know as SATORI. It is not an advanced state of
> > enlightenment, it is just chemicals in your brain. Get with the
> > program. There is no enlightenment. It is all just chemically
> induced
> > fantasies on the journey to death.
>
> Satori is an illusion. Enlightenment and especially the belief in
> different states of enlighenment are illusions. So, I guess I would
> have to agree with this last paragraph.
>
> Zatoichi63 or Mac A. Roni or Al or whatever you want to call yourself
> today, just sit! Quit drinking so much expresso and just sit!
>
> No satori, no enlighenment, no Zatoichi63 - Just THIS!
>
> ....Bill!
>
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>
> How do I save my mobile phone if it falls into water?
>




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